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Gin
03-24-2009, 07:52 PM
Obama Youth Brigade: Church Attendance Forbidden


By Jonas Clark

Is this the change you really voted for?

President Obama has only been in office for two months.
Now we have
HR 1388. The Bill was sponsored by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) with 37 others. The Bill was introduced to the floor of the House of Representatives where both Republicans and Democrats voted 321-105 in favor. Next it goes to the Senate for a vote and then on to President Obama.


This bill’s title is called “Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education” (GIVE). It forms what some are calling “Obama’s Youth Brigade.


Obama’s plan is require anyone receiving school loans and others to serve at least three months as part of the brigade. His goal is one million youth! This has serious Nazi Germany overtones to it.


The Bill would forbid any student in the brigade to participate in “engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.” That means no church attendance or witnessing.


Again, is this what America voted for?

Here is part of the HR1388 Bill’s wording:

SEC. 1304. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.


Section 125 (42 U.S.C.
12575) is amended to read as follows:

SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.


(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:

(1) Attempting to influence legislation.


(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.



(In other words dissent is not allowed nor is dissenting influence.
)

(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.


(Whatever happened to freedom of religion and keeping government OUT of religion? See what's going on ....? Coerced volunteerism is all you hear about - not the devil in the details.
)

http://www.thevoicemagazine.com/politics/512-obama-youth-brigade-church-attendance-forbidden.html

zach
03-24-2009, 08:15 PM
Didn't realize GIVE was this bad..

They're introducing it along with the other mandatory service bill too.

:eek:

Smoke the Liberty Tree
03-24-2009, 08:20 PM
if this passes, i will no longer be taking out student loans. I hope this isn't for real. I dont see this piece of legislation working in our country. As soon as the religious folk find out about the fine print there will be hell to pay. i dont even want to imagine the reaction for the christian right.

zach
03-24-2009, 08:25 PM
Some of these do seem unrealistic.. then again, so did the Patriot Act.

strapko
03-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Finally something needed, forbidden religion =).


























Wait for it.....






























Wait for it





















Just joking, pulling your strings Theocrat...you know I love you. This is an outrage Nazi Amerika here we come.

acptulsa
03-25-2009, 06:24 AM
So, does the language prohibit anyone in the program from ever doing this, or does it just prohibit them from claiming these activities as their hours of volunteer slave labor in defense of the Constitutional seperation of church and state?

What I want to know is, how did we get from college grants without strings to you have to enslave yourself in order to be loaned money that you'll have to pay back? Sign yourself up for servitude in order to be given credit? What?

Roxi
03-25-2009, 06:34 AM
anyone have a link to somewhere that breaks this whole bill down like this ?

i can't believe this passed both the house and the senate... makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit doesn't it?

Gin
03-25-2009, 06:38 AM
Here is a write up from infowars

GIVE Mandatory Service Act Strips First Amendment of "Volunteers"

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
March 24, 2009

On March 18, Rep. George Miller, a Democrat from California, tacked an amendment on H.R. 1388, entitled "Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act," or GIVE (to government), Obama’s plan to require mandatory service for all able young people.
Miller’s amendment will "prohibit organizations from attempting to influence legislation; organize or engage in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes; and assist, promote, or deter union organizing," according to GovTrack.us, a site that tracks Congress.

In other words, Obama’s "volunteer corps" act, passed by the House with a 321-105 margin and requiring the government to develop a plan for indentured servitude, would deny millions of people their right to oppose and organize against government legistation under the First Amendment. "This is as close to a sedition act, a violation of 1st Amendment rights, as has been proposed in recent history. A basic right as a part of our natural, inalienable rights, is to resist government. Our founders not only knew it was a right but it was a responsibility. This legislation begins to break that down significantly," writes Gary Wood for the Examiner.

GIVE (up your rights) will conscript millions of young people, put them in uniforms and send them packing to 4-year "public service" academies where they will be indoctrinated and trained to become "public sector leaders."

GIVE was passed by the House on March 18 by an overwhelming bipartisan vote of 321 to 105. "At this moment of economic crisis, when so many people are in need of help and so much needs to be done, this could not be more urgent," said Obama. "It is up to every one of us to do his or her small part to make the world a better place."

Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled "Duties," in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, "Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds."

Section 120 of the bill addresses the "Youth Engagement Zone Program" and states that "service learning" will be "a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency."

H.R. 1388 not only reauthorizes programs under the National and Community Service Act of 1990 and the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973, but also includes "new programs and studies" and is expected to be funded with an allocation of $6 billion over the next five years, explains Bob Unruh for WND.

"Many, however, are raising concerns that the program, which is intended to include 250,000 ‘volunteers,’ is the beginning of what President Obama called his ‘National Civilian Security Force’ in a a speech last year in which he urged creating an organization as big and well-funded as the U.S. military. He has declined since then to elaborate," Unruh adds.

It appears Miller’s amendment is designed to strip members of this emerging "National Civilian Security Force" of their constitutional rights under the First Amendment.

The First Amendment reads as follows: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

According to GovTrack.us, the addition of the Miller amendment to GIVE was agreed to by voice vote.

On March 23, a similar bill was passed by the Senate on a 74 to 14 vote. "From President Kennedy’s days to the creation of Americorps by then President Bill Clinton, the notion of public service has become a rallying cry. Tonight’s vote, propelled by President Obama’s urging of an expansion, would mean a growth in such work from 75,000 community service jobs to 250,000," reported the New York Times.

http://www.infowars.com/give-mandatory-service-act-strips-first-amendment-of-volunteers/

The legistation is here

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1388:

angelatc
03-25-2009, 06:43 AM
I think that it means you can't join the Nazi Youth, spread the good word, and expect it to count towards college funds.

But this makes me sick to my stomach. Originally the plan was that participants would give a $5000 break to students attending college. Now you have to participate just to get a school loan.

And 105 Republicans voted for it.

We are so screwed.

Gin
03-25-2009, 06:50 AM
I take it as any government funds.. Unemployment, Grants, Student Loans... heaven forbid welfare (which with inflation going up and unemployment going up folks don't have a choice but to get food stamps to feed their families)

Bottom line if you get anything from the government... you can't go to church, be politically involved, no marches, protests...etc

This also goes for folks that are retired, not just the youth... read the legislation... it's hard to follow... but folks NEED to read it

angelatc
03-25-2009, 07:00 AM
anyone have a link to somewhere that breaks this whole bill down like this ?

i can't believe this passed both the house and the senate... makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit doesn't it?

It has not passed the Senate yet. It is on their calendar though, and there's no reason for me to think it won't pass there.

And even if it doesn't, they'll just keep bringing it back until they finally cram it through.

We are so screwed.

Everybody here should be going to Hillsdale College. They don't accept government money.

micahnelson
03-25-2009, 07:06 AM
Just trying to understand. Is this saying these things cannot be done, or cannot be done as part of your youth volunteer service.

I.E. You can go to church on sunday, but your Volunteer brigade can't fix up a church as part of its assignments.

dirknb@hotmail.com
03-25-2009, 07:07 AM
if this passes, i will no longer be taking out student loans. I hope this isn't for real. I dont see this piece of legislation working in our country. As soon as the religious folk find out about the fine print there will be hell to pay. i dont even want to imagine the reaction for the christian right.

You should avoid taking out loans anyway.

acptulsa
03-25-2009, 07:17 AM
I.E. You can go to church on sunday, but your Volunteer brigade can't fix up a church as part of its assignments.

This is the way I read it, and I hope we won't run around spouting off to the contrary. This crap is insidious enough as it is, without us convincing people that anyone who speaks out against it is misunderstanding it.

Regardless of what kind of stuff you can and can't volunteer to do, and regardless of what you can and can't do in the time that is left to yourself, this legislation requires that you do this and do that in order to secure a loan you'll have to pay back anyway. Your become an indentured servant just to get credit.

When they used grants to drive up college prices (doesn't government money drive up the cost of whatever it buys? Like six hundred dollar Defense Department hammers), then the grants dry up and get replaced by loans and the banks not only have a whole new racket, but the government has an excuse to get into the loan business and act as college gatekeeper because what eighteen year old has a ten thousand dollar line of credit? And now? Well, either you're rich or you get to volunteer to be indoctrinated before they'll even let you in college...

It's just more economic stratification of society, that's all. Call it an integral part of The New Class System.

P.S. infowars--ensuring that the opponents of the Status Quo are easily painted as misinformed kooks since...

Carole
03-25-2009, 07:19 AM
Just an updated version of Hitler's idea??

acptulsa
03-25-2009, 07:24 AM
Just an updated version of Hitler's idea??

You're either from a wealthy family, indoctrinated, or marginalized by a 'lack of education'. Yeah, but with refinements...

InterestedParticipant
03-25-2009, 11:58 AM
What happened to the concept of separation of church and state?

UtahApocalypse
03-25-2009, 12:02 PM
will this effec t current students??? what about loans im expected to achieve over the nex 2 years??? if this will be adopted im dropping classes TODAY!

acptulsa
03-25-2009, 12:04 PM
What happened to the concept of separation of church and state?

They're using it as an excuse to ensure that none of this 'volunteerism' benefits churches. Must be alive and well--sort of.

InterestedParticipant
03-25-2009, 12:28 PM
This is the Pincers Strategy that I presented in this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176993)

The American middle-class being squeezed to death by a vise:


http://www.makeknowntheunknown.com/images/nonedare-m7f151d4b_1_.gif


Bush exerted the pressure-from-above, now Obama's job is to exert pressure-from-below.


WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A DICTATORSHIP OF THE ELITE DISGUISED AS A
DICTATORSHIP OF THE PROLETARIAT.

Goto this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176993) for explanation and this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=178191) for how Brezinzski is using it.


Download this book for more:
None Dare Call it Conspiracy (http://www.amazon.com/None-Dare-Call-It-Conspiracy/dp/B000BNPWFY)
by Gary Allen , Larry Abraham

PDF's available online at:
http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2297676/conspiracy-Gary-Allen-None-Dare-Call-it-Conspiracy-english-rarereactor

RCA
03-25-2009, 12:30 PM
How did this piece of trash get past the House? Who voted for it?

Jeremy
03-25-2009, 12:33 PM
Even if this just means you can't volunteer at a church... still sucks for me because I was planning on writing this garbage thing off with my hours of volunteering in church. Maybe I'll have to quit my voluntary service that I chose myself in order to do the government's mandated service. Disgusting.

dannno
03-25-2009, 12:49 PM
How did this piece of trash get past the House? Who voted for it?

Over 100 Republicans.

dr. hfn
03-25-2009, 01:32 PM
I will never do this!!!

ChaosControl
03-25-2009, 02:10 PM
Reading things like this really tests my patience, it really forces me to do everything I can to continue being nonviolent.

Reason
04-03-2009, 11:26 PM
So called "Mandatory public service" H.R. 1388 - Fact checked

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=187138

Smoke the Liberty Tree
04-04-2009, 12:07 AM
It says you can't get your service hours from church activities. For people such as yourselves who believe in separation of church and state, i see no reason why you should have a problem with it. I personally don't think church service hours should count because a church could define community service as something far different than what another church does. Then you get arguments and hate. I think this is a good idea. E

Theocrat
04-04-2009, 02:20 AM
It says you can't get your service hours from church activities. For people such as yourselves who believe in separation of church and state, i see no reason why you should have a problem with it. I personally don't think church service hours should count because a church could define community service as something far different than what another church does. Then you get arguments and hate. I think this is a good idea. E

So, I guess the Church's activities of feeding the hungry with its soup kitchens, clothing the poor with its thrift stores, housing the homeless with its habitat construction ministries, ministering to addicts with its rehabilitation centers, educating the ignorant with its schools, caring for the sick with its hospitals, and nursing the abandoned with its orphanages aren't acceptable community services for the youth to be engaged in, according to the federal government. :rolleyes:

Gin
04-04-2009, 05:06 AM
I'm sorry, but the churches do Alot to help the helpless, the hungry and the poor and not just here in the US but all over the world...including Nobama's Homeland....It still makes no sense to me why they think they need to force "voluntarily" voluntarism on youth and elderly folks.
I know alot of kids that go on Mission trips with their churches to help others.. Nobama isn't from this country so he has no love for country. (Proven fact...he attended school from age 6-10 in Indonesia...a childs most formable years). He doesn't know our way of life here...he thinks he needs to dictate everything we do.....fortunately folks are waking up and realizing that if they don't fight for their country then we won't have a country left. Time is NOT on our side.