Ronald Reagan = the golden cow of the neoconservatives

[Invalid]

We all know Bush was one of our worst presidents to be mentioned along with some of the other war-state\welfare-staters in history, but the neoconservatives still have the Ronaldus Magnus to fall back on.


Ronald Reagan: an autopsy by Murray Rothbard (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html)


Reagan’s Legacy

Has the Reagan Administration done nothing good in its eight ghastly years on earth, you might ask? Yes, it has done one good thing; it has repealed the despotic 55-mile-per-hour highway speed limit. And that is it.

As the Gipper, at bloody long last, goes riding off into the sunset, he leaves us with a hideous legacy. He has succeeded in destroying the libertarian public mood of the late 1970’s, and replaced it with fatuous and menacing patriotic symbols of the Nation-State, especially The Flag, which he first whooped up in his vacuous reelection campaign in 1984, aided by the unfortunate coincidence of the Olympics being held at Los Angeles. (Who will soon forget the raucous baying of the chauvinist mobs: "USA! USA!" every time some American came in third in some petty event?) He has succeeded in corrupting libertarian and free-market intellectuals and institutions, although in Ronnie’s defense it must be noted that the fault lies with the corrupted and not with the corrupter. -Murray Rothbard


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm91/spathic101/mnr.jpg




Here's Ronaldus leading the charge on his horse.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/gemoftheocean/reagan_horseback.jpg

[AuH20]

Face it. America lost its soul defeating the Soviets. We needed to embrace a large state solution to overcome them and we're currently experiencing the fallout from those policies. Its ironic that we've gradually become the very state that we hated for so many years.

[Invalid]

Face it. America lost its soul defeating the Soviets. We needed to embrace a large state solution to overcome them and we're currently experiencing the fallouts from those policies.


I don't think we did. The Communists fed off the fear of us to enslave their people. Ronald, Buckley and the GOP did about the same.

Did we really need 20,000 intercontinental ballistic missiles just to feel safe? I think the warstaters used it as an excuse to exist more or less.

[AuH20]

I don't think we did. The Communists fed off the fear of us to enslave their people. Ronald, Buckley and the GOP did about the same.

Did we really need 20,000 intercontinental ballistic missiles just to feel safe? I think the warstaters used it as an excuse to exist more or less.

After what nearly transpired in '62, the threat was very real.

[Invalid]

After what nearly transpired in '62, the threat was very real.

Cuban missile crisis. Well we had basses on their borders too. If Kennedy had agreed publicly to get rid of those bases, there never would have been a crisis.

Why is it a threat if we have mutually assured destruction? 100 intercontinental hydrogen bombs aren't enough?

The Nash prisoner's dilemma had been established so nothing was going to improve upon that checkmate.

[Truth Warrior]

Face it. America lost its soul defeating the Soviets. We needed to embrace a large state solution to overcome them and we're currently experiencing the fallout from those policies. Its ironic that we've gradually become the very state that we hated for so many years. Be careful what you hate, there is a very strong tendency to become it.<IMHO> ;) Criminal cops, Socialist Amerika, Israeli Gestapo, etc.. :(

[Aratus]

the Libertarians as a movement survived the reaganite 1980s.
Ayn Rand early on took exception to his politics + policies...
if the Democrats are soft-core socialists, then Barry Goldwater's
ideas are a logical counterpoint to this expansion of gov't...

[pcosmar]

I have mixed feeling about Reagan.

Has the Reagan Administration done nothing good in its eight ghastly years on earth
I generally make a distinction between Reagan and the Administration.
It was his ideas that sold him and got him elected, but he was saddled with Bush and was surrounded by people with another agenda.
I am unsure how much blame to place on him.

I was very concerned that the same thing would have happened to Ron Paul had he been elected.

[acptulsa]

Getting the awful 'double nickel' repealed wasn't the only good thing his administration did! It also got rid of the entire Interstate Commerce Commission! It was too late to save the passenger trains from nationalization (the ICC was forcing railroads to run trains that newer part of the same government, AMTRAK, refused to run), but it was a good thing nonetheless.

Surely there was a third good thing the Reagan administration did in amongst all of the bad. Give me a minute...


Cuban missile crisis. Well we had basses on their borders too. If Kennedy had agreed publicly to get rid of those bases, there never would have been a crisis.

Getting rid of our missile base in Turkey is, in fact, exactly how we solved that crisis...

[angelatc]

Deserved or nor, Reagan has a respected legacy in the GOP.

You're politically better off going with a "If you liked Reagan, you'll love my guy!" approach than "REAGAN? ARE YOU KIDDING???"

[constituent]

Deserved or nor, Reagan has a respected legacy in the GOP.

You're politically better off going with a "If you liked Reagan, you'll love my guy!" approach than "REAGAN? ARE YOU KIDDING???"

Maybe in the short term. Maybe.

[acptulsa]

Maybe in the short term. Maybe.

Around here, at least in the short term, definitely. But I still sneak it in. My line is, 'Here's a group of people who want to finally, actually and truly keep Reagan's promises.'

[klamath]

I have mixed feeling about Reagan.

I generally make a distinction between Reagan and the Administration.
It was his ideas that sold him and got him elected, but he was saddled with Bush and was surrounded by people with another agenda.
I am unsure how much blame to place on him.

I was very concerned that the same thing would have happened to Ron Paul had he been elected.

Being part of the Reagan revolution I agree that we couldn't get what we thought could get done by the time we expanded the coalition enough to win.
If RP ever won most of "his so called" supporters on this forum would tear him to bloodly ribbons in the first two months. It will be funny to see RPers get elected and then see their faces when their own people turn on them and tell them they sold out.

[constituent]

Being part of the Reagan revolution I agree that we couldn't get what we thought could get done by the time we expanded the coalition enough to win.

so that's why so many here push the "big tent," to help ensure the long-term ineffectiveness of "the" "movement."

whodathunkit?

[Invalid]

Getting the awful 'double nickel' repealed wasn't the only good thing his administration did! It also got rid of the entire Interstate Commerce Commission! It was too late to save the passenger trains from nationalization (the ICC was forcing railroads to run trains that newer part of the same government, AMTRAK, refused to run), but it was a good thing nonetheless.

Surely there was a third good thing the Reagan administration did in amongst all of the bad. Give me a minute...



Getting rid of our missile base in Turkey is, in fact, exactly how we solved that crisis...



Ya, but that was agreed upon in secret after the crisis escalated to the point of nuclear war. That was Kennedy's way out only he refused to do it public.

At the very start of the crisis, he could have said, ya we want to get rid of those bases so there's no problem here move along, but he wanted to appear hawkish.

So he risked nuclear war in order to burnish his credentials.

[Invalid]

The biggest problem with Reagan was the infiltration by the neoconservative movement.

What seemed like a minor pest problem, turned into cockroaches and termites eating the entire house down by the time Bush got in office.

[acptulsa]

so that's why so many here push the "big tent," to help ensure the long-term ineffectiveness of "the" "movement."

whodathunkit?

No. People here push the 'big tent' because we need numbers. But quantity is indeed worthless without quality. We need to fill the 'big tent' not with bandwagon tactics but with education. That way we can create a groundswell that won't gracefully and even gratefully accept a sellout after the win; people who refuse to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

And one of the major problems in pulling it off is, all the systems in D.C. are geared to what we have, not what we need. Finding experienced and effective people for the many positions that will have to be filled won't be easy. How do you find a lifer bureaucrat who knows the people in an agency and is ready, willing and able to accept a mission like 'wind it down and prepare everyone for unemployment'?

[Truth Warrior]

so that's why so many here push the "big tent," to help ensure the long-term ineffectiveness of "the" "movement."

whodathunkit? Idathunkit2! ;)