Gerald Celente predicts the rise of a 3rd party system by 2012

[qh4dotcom]

http://www.abc6.com/news/41131932.html

Goodbye Democrats and Republicans...I won't miss them...hopefully Ron Paul and Jeff Flake can stick around.

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[ihsv]

I'm afraid that 2012 will be too late.

[Xenophage]

I think 2012 will be the best shot libertarians have ever had. I'm willing to live in poverty for a while just to see it.

[qh4dotcom]

I think 2012 will be the best shot libertarians have ever had. I'm willing to live in poverty for a while just to see it.

Let's hope they don't nominate Bob Barr again :)

[Invalid]

Was Mary Ruwart (spelling?) a good potential nominee you think?

[PatriotOne]

Gerald Celente predicts the rise of a 3rd party system by 2012

And I predict a bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing have already been prepped and are readying to be trotted out as our new "independant" saviors.

[torchbearer]

Was Mary Ruwart (spelling?) a good potential nominee you think?

I love Mary.

[Bodhi]

And I predict a bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing have already been prepped and are readying to be trotted out as our new "independant" saviors.

Unfortunately, I think you might be right one that one, TPTB have a strangle hold on our country.

[Kludge]

Was Mary Ruwart (spelling?) a good potential nominee you think?


I love Mary.

Yeah. I'm probably going to kill myself if Ruwart doesn't receive LP nomination in 2012 (I'm being serious -- well, I haven't slept in a while....). I'm really quite set on seeing it happen if our GOP nominee fails. I'd love to see Kubby as the VP on the ticket, too.

[emazur]

I wonder if RP would run as the LP candidate in 2012 if he doesn't get the GOP nomination (and they selected another Neocon signaling a refusal to change their ways) - it would be his last chance to run as president, and he would do major damage to the GOP's chance of winning, and if he pulled in Democrats disgusted with the ongoing wars and ongoing downward economy, he would win the 2012 election, and forever make the LP a force to contend with, fulfilling Celente's prediction of a 3rd party rising to power.

[qh4dotcom]

I wonder if RP would run as the LP candidate in 2012 if he doesn't get the GOP nomination (and they selected another Neocon signaling a refusal to change their ways) - it would be his last chance to run as president, and he would do major damage to the GOP's chance of winning, and if he pulled in Democrats disgusted with the ongoing wars and ongoing downward economy, he would win the 2012 election, and forever make the LP a force to contend with, fulfilling Celente's prediction of a 3rd party rising to power.

Won't happen unless the slim possibility of him losing his Congressional seat in 2010 or 2012 occurs.

[dr. hfn]

The Libertarian Party, Constitution Party, Campaign for Liberty, Young Americans for Liberty, Cato Institute, Ludwig von Mises Institute, Young Americans for Freedom, Leadership Institute, etc...need to create a coalition, it's the only way we will win.

[Athan]

I hope this is the one trend forecast he is definitely accurate about.

[He Who Pawns]

i think this is an obvious prediction.

the question is, can we have a "mainstream libertarian" movement in place in time?

[silverhawks]

The Libertarian Party, Constitution Party, Campaign for Liberty, Young Americans for Liberty, Cato Institute, Ludwig von Mises Institute, Young Americans for Freedom, Leadership Institute, etc...need to create a coalition, it's the only way we will win.

I absolutely agree with this. There's a fair amount of crossover, without it becoming the Frankenstein's Monster that is the modern-day Republican Party.

[Matt Collins]

It will be between 20-50 years before any third party has any success. And that's if they are serious, well funded, and start NOW!

Sadly the ballot access laws are too skewed against 3rd parties. Even Ross Perot with his BILLIONS of dollars could not get himself on the ballot in every state. It takes time to change the laws, and in this case a decade or more. Anything else is unrealistic.

[Theocrat]

Constitution Party 2012! :D

[qh4dotcom]

It will be between 20-50 years before any third party has any success. And that's if they are serious, well funded, and start NOW!

Sadly the ballot access laws are too skewed against 3rd parties. Even Ross Perot with his BILLIONS of dollars could not get himself on the ballot in every state. It takes time to change the laws, and in this case a decade or more. Anything else is unrealistic.

You talk aboout 3rd party success in 20-50 years....the US will be bankrupt long before then.

Ross Perot could have won in 1992...no reason why a 3rd party can't win next election...all they need is for enough people to get tired of Democrats and Republicans

[Matt Collins]

You talk aboout 3rd party success in 20-50 years....the US will be bankrupt long before then.

Ross Perot could have won in 1992...no reason why a 3rd party can't win next election...all they need is for enough people to get tired of Democrats and RepublicansNo for 2 reasons
1- Ballot access laws - 3rd party laws
2- Mainstream Media / Propaganda is tied into the 2 party system

[qh4dotcom]

No for 2 reasons
1- Ballot access laws - 3rd party laws
2- Mainstream Media / Propaganda is tied into the 2 party system

You don't get it do you?

1) If millions of people get pissed at Republicans and Democrats for causing the upcoming economic collapse...then who cares what the media says, who cares about presidential debates. Grassroots, donations and public outrage will have more influence than TV.

2) As for ballot access laws that can be overcome with raising millions and grassroots efforts...anyway you only need to be in enough states to have a mathematical possibility of winning

[mconder]

Even if this supposed 3rd party is born out of this very movement, people are so damn stupid it will be co-opted by the establishment while even many on this site continue to support it. This is what the enemy does.

[Zippyjuan]

The most successful third party candidate in recent history was H. Ross Perot who got 18.9% of the vote in 1992. People have to really hate both of the major party candidates to vote for a third party. Perot only got eight percent the second time around. Theodore Roosevelt failed to get the Republican Party nod in 1912 and ran on the Bull Moose ticket- he got 27%. But that split the Republicans and gave the election to the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson. George Wallace got 13.5% in 1968. The election structure favors the two major parties- at this time, I do not see any chance for third parties in 2012. Ron Paul ran as Republican so that he would at least be able to get his message out to more people. If he was just the Libertarian candidate he would have been more easliy ignored by the media.

[Matt Collins]

You don't get it do you?No, I get it just fine. You appear to have the problem with reality...


1) If millions of people get pissed at Republicans and Democrats for causing the upcoming economic collapse...then who cares what the media says, who cares about presidential debates. Grassroots, donations and public outrage will have more influence than TV.The majority of the voting public only react to what and how the mainstream media puts in front of them. The ones that live outside the matrix (us) are so few and far between that our effect can and will be negated unless we work within one of the parties (as Ron Paul has) for at least a decade or more.





2) As for ballot access laws that can be overcome with raising millions and grassroots efforts...anyway you only need to be in enough states to have a mathematical possibility of winningAgain, millions are not going to be raised. Ron Paul only raised $30 million definitely not enough to launch a nation-wide campaign for ballot access. And just because there is a mathematical chance of winning doesn't mean anything. Perot and even Barr had a mathematical chance of winning.

[TER]

Imagine if RP ran on the Libertarian ticket during the 2008 presidential race. Do you think he'd now be on FOX and other programs every week spreading the cause of liberty? Where in the world is Bob Barr?

The LP will be stronger in 2012, but not strong enough- and time seems to be running out.

[Kludge]

Imagine if RP ran on the Libertarian ticket during the 2008 presidential race. Do you think he'd now be on FOX and other programs every week spreading the cause of liberty? Where in the world is Bob Barr?

The LP will be stronger in 2012, but not strong enough- and time seems to be running out.

Barr still does some writing, but his credibility in the LP is shot. I still don't think Ron is able to run for the LP given some stuff he signed with the GOP that I don't fully recall.

I don't know who would really be popular enough who would run in the LP. Ruwart has been a big supporter of Ron Paul, and is pretty non-controversial, but I don't know if we can get the same excitement we had with Ron Paul, especially given that a lot of the more conservative members of our movement aren't even familiar with Ruwart.

[qh4dotcom]

No, I get it just fine. You appear to have the problem with reality...

No you don't get it....under normal circumstances I would agree with everything you said...however Celente is predicting the rise of a 3rd party after an economic collapse...the rules of the game change then.

[Matt Collins]

No you don't get it....under normal circumstances I would agree with everything you said...however Celente is predicting the rise of a 3rd party after an economic collapse...the rules of the game change then.It doesn't matter if we have an economic collapse, the laws in most states outright prohibit 3rd parties. And since the Reps and Dems are the gatekeepers to these laws it ain't gonna change anytime in less than a decade.

[torchbearer]

The most successful third party candidate in recent history was H. Ross Perot who got 18.9% of the vote in 1992. People have to really hate both of the major party candidates to vote for a third party. Perot only got eight percent the second time around. Theodore Roosevelt failed to get the Republican Party nod in 1912 and ran on the Bull Moose ticket- he got 27%. But that split the Republicans and gave the election to the Democrat, Woodrow Wilson. George Wallace got 13.5% in 1968. The election structure favors the two major parties- at this time, I do not see any chance for third parties in 2012. Ron Paul ran as Republican so that he would at least be able to get his message out to more people. If he was just the Libertarian candidate he would have been more easliy ignored by the media.

Abraham Lincoln was the most successful third party candidate I believe.

[Bruno]

Most people won't switch parties, and might even be wary of third parties in general, but may feel more comfortable with an Independent.

[ChaosControl]

Abraham Lincoln was the most successful third party candidate I believe.

Sounds like a be careful what you wish for post. :P

[qh4dotcom]

It doesn't matter if we have an economic collapse, the laws in most states outright prohibit 3rd parties. And since the Reps and Dems are the gatekeepers to these laws it ain't gonna change anytime in less than a decade.

Ok...let's come back to this thread in 2012...we'll see then who's right...let's see whether public outrage or state laws prevail.

[torchbearer]

Sounds like a be careful what you wish for post. :P

I was making the point that the GOP was once a third party.

[torchbearer]

Ok...let's come back to this thread in 2012...we'll see then who's right...let's see whether public outrage or state laws prevail.

In my heart, I wish people would get it.
In my mind, I know that they won't.

[RCA]

http://www.abc6.com/news/41131932.html

Goodbye Democrats and Republicans...I won't miss them...hopefully Ron Paul and Jeff Flake can stick around.

Jeff Flake?

He hasn't even co-sponsored H.R. 1207.

:confused:

[qh4dotcom]

Jeff Flake?

He hasn't even co-sponsored H.R. 1207.

:confused:

He's too conservative...he's like RP when it comes to out of control government spending.

Maybe no one has talked him into co-sponsoring H.R 1207...until he votes no then he should stick around.

[RCA]

He's too conservative...he's like RP when it comes to out of control government spending.

Maybe no one has talked him into co-sponsoring H.R 1207...until he votes no then he should stick around.

I just called his Arizona office. The operator said she'd pass along the request to co-sponsor H.R. 1207.

[Zippyjuan]

Abraham Lincoln was the most successful third party candidate I believe.

The Republican Party had already become the #2 party before the Lincoln campaign. Many do not consider him a third party candidate.

[qh4dotcom]

Now it's Newt Gingrich who is talking about Third Party 2012

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/gingrich-warns-of-third-party-in-2012/

[sevin]

Now it's Newt Gingrich who is talking about Third Party 2012

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/gingrich-warns-of-third-party-in-2012/

Yup. When I first heard this I thought Celente was crazy. Now I'm starting to think he's right.

[Andrew-Austin]

If there is any kind of economic collapse, or if the depression just continues to get worse, there will be no third party movement coming from the bottom up. That takes funding, and we would be too poor at that point. The establishment hacks might fund a third party run though, and we would get another puppet as President.

[qh4dotcom]

If there is any kind of economic collapse, or if the depression just continues to get worse, there will be no third party movement coming from the bottom up. That takes funding, and we would be too poor at that point. The establishment hacks might fund a third party run though, and we would get another puppet as President.

What about the millions of fed up americans who are finally going to wake up and stop supporting Democrats and Republicans?

Remember Bob Conley? His opponent Lindsey Graham only got 58% of the vote even though he had 100 times more campaign cash...many people in SC who were fed up with Graham voted against him...all his cash wasn't going to change the minds of those fed up with him.

[dr. hfn]

What about a new political party...The American Tea Party

[jclay2]

Just remember that the democrats and republicans won't give up easy. Look at this transcript from Rush Yesterday.


Now, there are two aspects to this. We've got lots of sound bites coming up. But there are two aspects to this that I do want to share with you. My greatest concern about this is that there are -- I don't want to impugn anybody here -- but there's a possibility that this is going to lead to a third-party movement, and that's death. Third-party candidates succeed in one thing, and that is electing their alternatives. John Anderson, 1980, you had Perot in 1992. The temptation here is to go third party 'cause the Republican Party is not responsive. The real question, in my humble opinion, is that this effort and energy needs to be used, as Ronald Reagan did, to take over the Republican Party, to repopulate it and that's exactly what Reagan did, he took it away from the Rockefeller blue-blood country club types starting in 1976, took him 'til 1980 to do it. Goldwater did the same thing. Both Reagan and Goldwater could have gone third party, and there's a temptation here to go third-party, and a lot of people advocating third-party are the personalities that are trying to make this all about them, and that troubles me 'cause this is not about personalities, it's not about any politician, and it isn't about any media person that organized all of this.

Ron Paul is out there trying to take credit for it, by the way. He issued a big press release, but this is grassroots, this is why this kind of energy from the grassroots needs to be harnessed into the existing political apparatus that can actually win if it is built and structured right. That's the Republican Party. Third party can't win. Third party is not going to have any congressional candidates. I just think that the effort here to make this third party -- which is bubbling under the surface, it's not something you hear outright, but it's something I sense that is taking place.

[rp08orbust]

Here's a possible angle to push with neocons in support of Ron Paul for 2012: If you don't nominate Ron Paul to unify disillusioned Republicans, then Gingrich's and Celente's predictions of a 3rd party will come true.

[JdotRdot]

What about the millions of fed up americans who are finally going to wake up and stop supporting Democrats and Republicans?


you think way too highly of the american population...they might be fed up, they might get angry, but they are a mass of misinformed bumbling idiots. the powers that be could easily prop up a front-runner for this "third party" or independent candidate & the media will help make him into the new messiah, just like Obama

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[silverhawks]

And I predict a bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing have already been prepped and are readying to be trotted out as our new "independant" saviors.

Yep me too. Mark Sanford among them. Remember the average voter doesn't check voting records.

[silverhawks]

Here's a possible angle to push with neocons in support of Ron Paul for 2012: If you don't nominate Ron Paul to unify disillusioned Republicans, then Gingrich's and Celente's predictions of a 3rd party will come true.

Neo-cons are not interested in RP; they WANT war, big government (as long as it is on their side) and massive spending, and like the welfare supporters of the Democrats, they are not going to vote someone in who takes their toys away. Besides, Beck is busy making them all into "libertarians in conversion." (read: "neo-libertarians")

I am past the point where I believe a party will be the solution to the problems we are seeing today. The party model of politics had a hand in creating the problems, by dividing the nation.

As President Washington himself said, in his farewell address (http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/washspeech.html):


One of the expedients of Party to acquire influence, within particular districts, is to misrepresent the opinions & aims of other Districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies & heart burnings which spring from these misrepresentations. They tend to render Alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal Affection.


They serve to Organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force--to put in the place of the delegated will of the Nation, the will of a party; often a small but artful and enterprizing minority of the Community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public Administration the Mirror of the ill concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the Organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common councils and modefied by mutual interests. However combinations or Associations of the above description may now & then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the Power of the People, & to usurp for themselves the reins of Government; destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.


I have already intimated to you the danger of Parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on Geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, & warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the Spirit of Party, generally.

This Spirit, unfortunately, is inseperable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human Mind. It exists under different shapes in all Governments, more or less stifled, controuled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight) the common & continual mischiefs of the spirit of Party are sufficient to make it the interest and the duty of a wise People to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill founded Jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot & insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence & corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country, are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the Administration of the Government and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true--and in Governments of a Monarchical cast Patriotism may look with endulgence, if not with favour, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate & assuage it. A fire not to be quenched; it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest instead of warming it should consume.

The details included in this address are near-prophetic.

I really believe among all of the Founding documents, this address would be one of the most useful to create an enduring form of constitutional republican governance; to take up the Founding Fathers' challenge of seeking a perfect union.

However, that would have to come with a revolution of thought amongst the general populace, and a general embracing of personal and civic responsibility - almost an American Enlightenment.

I used to believe that a new party could emerge to restore the Republic, but then I think of the paradox we talk about all the time here on the RPF; how can government solve the problems that government created? Would we just be adding heads to the two-headed snake we have now?

[nate895]

That party will be the Anti-Federalsit Party, dedicated to the restoration of the freedoms enjoyed by Americans under the Articles, but destroyed under the tyrannical regime of the Constitution of the United States.

[Vessol]

I think 2012 will be the best shot libertarians have ever had. I'm willing to live in poverty for a while just to see it.

I hate to be the cynic. But I don't think so.

Things will get bad, people will be upset. But the government will maintain that they are making it better when it could be worse and the media will back them up in that. Just look at the Great Depression and FDR.

People won't have their rights taken away from them, they will willingly give them away.

[qh4dotcom]

Gerald mentions the 3rd party it again with more confidence at 2:45

YouTube - pt 4/4 Gerald Celente We're heading into an Obamageddon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODr4_UR9V8o&feature=related)

[Epic]

Was Mary Ruwart (spelling?) a good potential nominee you think?

She's perfect. She's hardcore (voluntaryist)

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[sevin]

If a 3rd party rises, will it draw more people from the left or the right?

At the moment the libertarian party is growing fast, but it's drawing more conservatives, leaving Obama with the majority of the three.

[Imperial]

Sorry, but the only way I see a third party revolt in 2012 is either Ventura or Ron Paul on the ticket.

[max]

Sorry, but the only way I see a third party revolt in 2012 is either Ventura or Ron Paul on the ticket.

How about the junior Senator from Connecticut.....Peter Schiff

[qh4dotcom]

Remember Ross Perot?

You never know...a famous celebrity might run 3rd party

[qh4dotcom]

Hmm..now Beck wants to endorse Palin to run 3rd party...not sure if Celente considered this in his prediction

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=216331

[Kludge]

remember ross perot?

You never know...a famous celebrity might run 3rd party



http://www.scifiscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cg_schwarzenegger_terminator_salvation.jpg

[KAYA]

No, I get it just fine. You appear to have the problem with reality...

The majority of the voting public only react to what and how the mainstream media puts in front of them. The ones that live outside the matrix (us) are so few and far between that our effect can and will be negated unless we work within one of the parties (as Ron Paul has) for at least a decade or more.




Again, millions are not going to be raised. Ron Paul only raised $30 million definitely not enough to launch a nation-wide campaign for ballot access. And just because there is a mathematical chance of winning doesn't mean anything. Perot and even Barr had a mathematical chance of winning.

Celente is saying that this 3rd party movement will be unstoppable.

[christagious]

i think this is an obvious prediction.

the question is, can we have a "mainstream libertarian" movement in place in time?

Well we got Stossel getting his own show, and if Beck doesn't betray us, we got a start

[christagious]

Celente is saying that this 3rd party movement will be unstoppable.

Okay, I like Celente, and I agree with a lot of what he has to say, but at the same time I think a lot of what he is saying is exaggerated a little bit. He's not Nostradamus and you have to be somewhat skeptical, despite an overall accurate track record. Yes, I believe that there will be a big economic collapse but I don't know if it will be on the scale of what he is saying. I have a hard time believing that we will basically become Mexico with tons of kidnappings and 3rd world caliber violence, etc. To me, that sounds a little over the top; and I'm somewhat of an alarmist, Alex Jones listener, and dare I say fan?

There definitely will be a 3rd party rise but I don't think it will be unstoppable. The Powers that Be have too much control and are too capable of controlling the elections (and rigging them). I don't think a 3rd party candidate will win the 2012 election, simply because the establishment will make sure he/she doesn't (they have control over EVERYTHING, including the voting machines). I think the only way we will see an "unstoppable" 3rd party is if the Republican Party completely dies and from the ashes a 3rd party Phoenix (Phoenix Party?) rises. The two parties are on the same side so I don't think the GOP will completely die, I think it will be resurrected to appear small government, and more libertarian minded but it will not be. They will make promises they won't keep, like GWB did in the 2000 debates. If and only if the GOP completely dies will we see an unstoppable 3rd party, until then we gotta take over.

[Flash]

All because he wants it to happen doesn't mean it'll happen.