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Gin
03-21-2009, 08:35 AM
Gadsden Flag Going Viral on Facebook.

hoisting the Gadsden flag as your profile picture is starting to go viral on Facebook.
change your picture and status for a week as a sign of solidarity in protest of MIAC trying to affiliate patriots to Terrorists.
Spread the word and update your status there to encourage others....

ronpaulhawaii
03-21-2009, 09:07 AM
+1

hehe

MsDoodahs
03-21-2009, 09:46 AM
Needs to go offline and into the real world, too....

Best price on bulk orders of Gadsden flag stickers? Anyone know?

eta: not just bumper stickers - smaller ones, too....that can be "palmed" and placed without notice...in places like...oh, you know, the bannister in the statehouse....

Not that I would ever encourage anyone to do such a radical thing...

;)

Cowlesy
03-21-2009, 09:49 AM
Haha, I don't have any Gadsden Flags, but I bought 3 of these flags from this guy.

http://www.dullhawk.com/timesup.html

http://www.dullhawk.com/resources/_wsb_504x328_Flag.jpg

They're very nice flags, was a quick transaction (though they were expensive because he's not a producer).

StudentForPaul08
03-21-2009, 09:52 AM
Yeah, i know so many people who are doing this. I joined in as well. I want a real life one!

phill4paul
03-21-2009, 09:55 AM
LOL, I did a search to check the history of the Gadsden flag. I found this interesting quote from wiki:


Many Boy Scout troops in America part of the BSA as well as their council building display the flag and incorporate it into badges and flag displays.

The Boy Scouts are Terrorists!:eek::D:D:D

ronpaulhawaii
03-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Needs to go offline and into the real world, too....

Best price on bulk orders of Gadsden flag stickers? Anyone know?

eta: not just bumper stickers - smaller ones, too....that can be "palmed" and placed without notice...in places like...oh, you know, the bannister in the statehouse....

Not that I would ever encourage anyone to do such a radical thing...

;)

haha- I dont think anyone will ever accuse me of being shy with G-flag (which was a gift from RPMU#1, I am happy to add) :D

Bureaucrash has a hybrid...

http://www.bureaucrashcontraband.com/liordest1.html

Matt Collins
03-21-2009, 10:13 AM
Bureaucrash has a hybrid...

http://www.bureaucrashcontraband.com/liordest1.htmlI love BC. They are awesome! :cool:

Matt Collins
03-21-2009, 10:17 AM
LOL, I did a search to check the history of the Gadsden flag. I found this interesting quote from wiki:

The Boy Scouts are Terrorists!:eek::D:D:DAs an Eagle Scout I can tell you that I have never once seen this flag in any BSA activities I have been involved with.

Jeremy
03-21-2009, 10:18 AM
Yah I think I'll use it as my profile image since it's the newest fad :p

phill4paul
03-21-2009, 10:28 AM
As an Eagle Scout I can tell you that I have never once seen this flag in any BSA activities I have been involved with.

Grats on the Eagle Matt. I made it to Lifer before real life intervened and I had to contribute to the families finances.

I have memories of seeing the flag at some event or function. Can't remember where or what flag ceremony. Also, I remember a patch that featured it. I'll have to call my nephew and see if he still has my old patches I gave him.

I simply included that because with the release of the MIAC report I considered it important to make parallels to other organizations that use it.

hillertexas
03-21-2009, 10:43 AM
just changed my Myspace profile pic.

MsDoodahs
03-21-2009, 10:55 AM
How nice! I found this excerpt from "101 Things to do til the Revolution" by Claire Wolf and this is EXACTLY what I'm thinking of with the gadsden stickers...

"Simon" popped up now and then to plant anti-government poems, cartoons and sayings on the scene, then fade mysteriously away. Don't you think there could be a little "Simon Jester" in us all? Wouldn't it be a delight if, all across the land, evidence of Simon's presence appeared to remind would-be rulers they are neither sacred nor safe - and to let our fellow freedom lovers know they are not alone?


Here's how


Have some stickers printed up with thought-provoking sayings. (It's easy if you have a computer; just buy some Avery labels at the stationary store and print the stickers on your printer.) All you need to do is make sure your printer will handle the sticky labels. If it won't, print your at the local Kinko's or equivalent.


Carry a sheet of them and slap them everywhere you go: phone booths, rest room stalls, newspaper vending machines, park benches, post office or school bulletin boards, store windows - wherever they'll be noticed."

Gadsden flag stickers appearing ALL OVER the state of Missouri.

Hmmm.

:D

Jeremy
03-21-2009, 10:57 AM
How nice! I found this excerpt from "101 Things to do til the Revolution" by Claire Wolf and this is EXACTLY what I'm thinking of with the gadsden stickers...

"Simon" popped up now and then to plant anti-government poems, cartoons and sayings on the scene, then fade mysteriously away. Don't you think there could be a little "Simon Jester" in us all? Wouldn't it be a delight if, all across the land, evidence of Simon's presence appeared to remind would-be rulers they are neither sacred nor safe - and to let our fellow freedom lovers know they are not alone?


Here's how


Have some stickers printed up with thought-provoking sayings. (It's easy if you have a computer; just buy some Avery labels at the stationary store and print the stickers on your printer.) All you need to do is make sure your printer will handle the sticky labels. If it won't, print your at the local Kinko's or equivalent.


Carry a sheet of them and slap them everywhere you go: phone booths, rest room stalls, newspaper vending machines, park benches, post office or school bulletin boards, store windows - wherever they'll be noticed."

Gadsden flag stickers appearing ALL OVER the state of Missouri.

Hmmm.

:D
isnt that vandalism?

LandonCook
03-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Needs to go offline and into the real world, too....

Best price on bulk orders of Gadsden flag stickers? Anyone know?

eta: not just bumper stickers - smaller ones, too....that can be "palmed" and placed without notice...in places like...oh, you know, the bannister in the statehouse....

Not that I would ever encourage anyone to do such a radical thing...

;)

I've got a flag outside my house, and on facebook!

tremendoustie
03-21-2009, 11:03 AM
isnt that vandalism?

Some sense is needed here. Store windows or rest room stalls for example are certainly vandalism. Bulletin boards are not. For other places, like dumpsters or nespaper vending machines, probaby just see if there are a lot of posted bullitens and sickers allready. If not, don't do it.

MsDoodahs
03-21-2009, 11:25 AM
Why, yes, SC, sometimes it most certainly is.

;)

How large would a sticker need to be to be for putting on the corner of a stop sign?

I'm thinking 4"x6"ish...

Maverick
03-21-2009, 11:35 AM
I found this link on wikipedia to a PA government report on terrorism, and it also implicates the Gadsden Flag.

http://www.pa-aware.org/who-are-terrorists/domestic-5.asp

It's an older report (2003 I think) but it contains many of the same themes as the MIAC report. It's just as corrosive and sickening, or even more-so as it actually has the words "domestic terrorist" right next to the flag.

jcarcinogen
03-21-2009, 04:04 PM
I found this link on wikipedia to a PA government report on terrorism, and it also implicates the Gadsden Flag.

http://www.pa-aware.org/who-are-terrorists/domestic-5.asp

It's an older report (2003 I think) but it contains many of the same themes as the MIAC report. It's just as corrosive and sickening, or even more-so as it actually has the words "domestic terrorist" right next to the flag.

This is ridiculous... are they saying George Washington was a terrorist by name now?

RSLudlum
03-21-2009, 05:13 PM
Needs to go offline and into the real world, too....


;)

Try this place: http://www.csagalleries.com/store/flagsst.htm

This is a store run by one of our state senators Glenn McConnell and his brother. They are closing their brick and motor store :( , which happens to be about a 5minute walk from my house, and going exclusively to a web store. They're pretty good guys, check it out.

idiom
03-21-2009, 05:20 PM
isnt that vandalism?

Stick to defacing Government buildings. Its your property so it can't be vandalism.

Do this to capitol buildings.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1047749762913_2003/03/18/operahousegraffiti,0.jpg

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2003/565/565p2b.jpg

StudentForPaul08
03-21-2009, 05:25 PM
WOW that is AWESOME

heavenlyboy34
03-21-2009, 05:38 PM
Yah I think I'll use it as my profile image since it's the newest fad :p

I'm glad it's catching on. :) The Gadsden flag has been my fave for roughly 5 years and counting. :D;)

StudentForPaul08
03-21-2009, 05:46 PM
I just made it my comp. background. And my comp is next to the window, so everyone can see it. ToNS of people walk by, and the monitor is 22". hehe

heavenlyboy34
03-21-2009, 05:51 PM
I just made it my comp. background. And my comp is next to the window, so everyone can see it. ToNS of people walk by, and the monitor is 22". hehe

Mine's been that way for years, and I get the same reaction. ;):D lolz

SovereignMN
03-21-2009, 08:15 PM
I've had a miniature Gadsen flag on my cubicle wall for nearly 6 years now. Only 1 negative comment...from some idiot who thought it was form the Confederacy. (I didn't tell him that I'd fly the battle flag too if I didn't think it'd get me fired)

StudentForPaul08
03-21-2009, 08:36 PM
I got a nice Gadsden Flag button I put on my schoolbag. I really want a big flag of it too. haha.

TruckinMike
03-21-2009, 08:50 PM
This is ridiculous... are they saying George Washington was a terrorist by name now?

FEMA training LEO's - video - AJ has it on one of his films with them speaking directly about our founding fathers as being terrorists. I've seen it. Its on youtube somewhere.

TMike

Natalie
03-21-2009, 08:52 PM
I will change my facebook picture.

RSLudlum
03-21-2009, 09:03 PM
Time to take a visit downtown to Lodge Alley and the Liberty Tree (now only a marker in place) and make my own pledge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EglMVfUB74)?




from The Grand Lodge of Ancient Free Masons of South Carolina (http://www.scgrandlodgeafm.org/History/MarineLodge38.htm)


It was from Lodge Alley that Charlestonians openly defied the British government in the early days before the Revolutionary War. On November 7, 1777, as a means of protesting the harsh treatment shown to Boston, Charleston’s Sons of Liberty Boys met in the Masonic Lodge-Room in Lodge Alley and constructed a “rolling stage” or parade float. Upon it effigies of the Pope, the Devil, Lord North, and Governor Thomas Hutchinson of Massachusetts and floated it in the Bay

The Sons of Liberty also meet here and under a live oak tree in the pasture of Mr. Mazyck’s property, which they named on October 1,1768, “The Liberty Tree.” Under this tree Christopher Gadsden first advocated colonial independence in 1766, and where 10 years later the Declaration of Independence was first heard and applauded by South Carolinians. Gadsden and his fellow revolutionaries, who led public meetings protested the British Stamp Act and later the Tea Tax.


The list of people at the meeting at the Liberty Tree, in 1766, was drawn up by George Flagg, also these meetings at the Liberty Tree were public meetings and continued as such during the Revolutionary period. In the South Carolina Gazette the following was published about a meeting held by the “Club 45” members.

About 5 o’clock they all removed to a most noble “LIVE OAK” tree, in Mr. Mazyk’s pasture, which they formally dedicated to LIBERTY, where many loyal, patriotic, and constitutional toasts were drank, beginning with the glorious “NINETY-TWO” Anti-Rescinds of Massachusetts-Bay, and ending with, unanimity among the members of our ensuing Assembly not to rescind from the said resolution (to boycott England), each succeeded by three huzzahs.

In the evening, the tree was decorated with 45 lights, and 45 skyrockets were fired.

About 8 o’clock, the whole company, preceded by 45 of their number, marched in regular procession to town, down King-Street and Broad Street, to Mr. Robert Dillion’s tavern; where the 45 lights being placed upon the table, with 45 bowls of punch, 45 bottles of wine, and 92 glasses, they spent a few hours in a new round of toasts, among which, scarce a celebrated Patriot of Britain or America was omitted; and preserving the same good order and regularity as had been observed throughout the day, at 10 they retired.

Seeking to prevent the tree from becoming a Patriot shrine, the British cut it down and burned the stump, during their occupation of the city in 1780-82. The root was later retrieved by Judge William Johnson, who had it made into caneheads, one of which was given to Thomas Jefferson.

qh4dotcom
03-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Ok...I changed my profile picture to the Gadsden flag

JVParkour
03-21-2009, 10:18 PM
same here!

tekkierich
03-21-2009, 10:23 PM
My facebook profile is changed

tekkierich
03-21-2009, 10:26 PM
Also, my late friend Patrick really turned me on to this flag while campaigning last year. I am planning to get the Gadsden Flag on my right arm as a tattoo. I have previously been very against any tattoos so I am holding off for one more year, to make sure I really want it. Going to get it on my 30th birthday.

jrskblx125
03-21-2009, 10:31 PM
mines changed!

RSLudlum
03-21-2009, 10:48 PM
It was my avatar here for a while before I changed it to the SC Sovereignty Flag but I've used it on myspace for the past 2 years. I've got a couple of shirts with it on it, fly it in my backyard, and low and behold my cousin just told me last week he's getting it tatooed on his back. There's definitely no shortage of grandfather Gadsden's flag here in his native city Charleston. Now, as far as people truely taking his spirit to heart, that's another story. ;)

ronpaulhawaii
03-21-2009, 10:50 PM
and rotate a "join us" message in your status update...

Matt Collins
03-21-2009, 11:26 PM
Also, my late friend Patrick really turned me on to this flag while campaigning last year. I am planning to get the Gadsden Flag on my right arm as a tattoo. I have previously been very against any tattoos so I am holding off for one more year, to make sure I really want it. Going to get it on my 30th birthday.
Don't.

Matt Collins
03-21-2009, 11:29 PM
I have changed both my FB and MS page.

enjoiskaterguy
03-21-2009, 11:45 PM
Thats a great flag...."Times Up"...hahaha, thats great.

Austin
03-22-2009, 12:37 AM
Changed my Facebook profile pic. It was nice because I had already had it uploaded from a couple months ago..

Also, I got paid today so I bought a 3'x5' Gagsden flag, a 4"x6" Gagsden, a 4"x6" Bonnie Blue, and stand for the 4"x6" flags, all for only 15 bucks :D :D

Matt Collins
03-22-2009, 07:56 AM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/toolate.jpg

Soft Spoken Storm
03-22-2009, 08:42 AM
Sorry, guys, I support the Gadsden flag and I'm not enthused about the Missouri report, but I won't change my profile image on Facebook.

Sure, we "show solidarity." At the same time, if I do the same thing as so many other people, and replace an image of me with an image that thousands of others are displaying, then I am willingly giving up my individuality to become part of a collective based around a symbol.

How many people here get annoyed at the government asking people to "rally around a flag" for some reason or another? It's the same thing. You're being asked to give up your individual being, even if only for a week, in order that you might demonstrate that you are indeed a member of "the group."

I will speak against the report, and work to get rid of such nonsense where I can. But I will never give up my individuality and become just another faceless member of any group in the pursuit of such justices.

Cowlesy
03-22-2009, 08:50 AM
Sorry, guys, I support the Gadsden flag and I'm not enthused about the Missouri report, but I won't change my profile image on Facebook.

Sure, we "show solidarity." At the same time, if I do the same thing as so many other people, and replace an image of me with an image that thousands of others are displaying, then I am willingly giving up my individuality to become part of a collective based around a symbol.

How many people here get annoyed at the government asking people to "rally around a flag" for some reason or another? It's the same thing. You're being asked to give up your individual being, even if only for a week, in order that you might demonstrate that you are indeed a member of "the group."

I will speak against the report, and work to get rid of such nonsense where I can. But I will never give up my individuality and become just another faceless member of any group in the pursuit of such justices.

Joining a group because you share a common value or goal is a very individualist decision.

FrankRep
03-22-2009, 08:59 AM
My profile pic now has the flag displayed. :D

tekkierich
03-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Don't.

Why?

HenryKnoxFineBooks
03-22-2009, 12:53 PM
DTOM.com

Dont tread on me.com

Imperial
03-22-2009, 01:16 PM
Did it.

idiom
03-22-2009, 01:26 PM
Sorry, guys, I support the Gadsden flag and I'm not enthused about the Missouri report, but I won't change my profile image on Facebook.

Sure, we "show solidarity." At the same time, if I do the same thing as so many other people, and replace an image of me with an image that thousands of others are displaying, then I am willingly giving up my individuality to become part of a collective based around a symbol.

How many people here get annoyed at the government asking people to "rally around a flag" for some reason or another? It's the same thing. You're being asked to give up your individual being, even if only for a week, in order that you might demonstrate that you are indeed a member of "the group."

I will speak against the report, and work to get rid of such nonsense where I can. But I will never give up my individuality and become just another faceless member of any group in the pursuit of such justices.

God Forbid you sign up for a 'group' like RonPaulForums or something.

LittleLightShining
03-22-2009, 01:28 PM
Sorry, guys, I support the Gadsden flag and I'm not enthused about the Missouri report, but I won't change my profile image on Facebook.

Sure, we "show solidarity." At the same time, if I do the same thing as so many other people, and replace an image of me with an image that thousands of others are displaying, then I am willingly giving up my individuality to become part of a collective based around a symbol.

How many people here get annoyed at the government asking people to "rally around a flag" for some reason or another? It's the same thing. You're being asked to give up your individual being, even if only for a week, in order that you might demonstrate that you are indeed a member of "the group."

I will speak against the report, and work to get rid of such nonsense where I can. But I will never give up my individuality and become just another faceless member of any group in the pursuit of such justices.I agree.


God Forbid you sign up for a 'group' like RonPaulForums or something.
That's not the point.

ronpaulhawaii
03-22-2009, 01:33 PM
There will always be a group of people who don't like being part of any group

:p

StudentForPaul08
03-22-2009, 01:40 PM
There will always be a group of people who don't like being part of any group

:p

Than we can group them into a group of people who don't want to be in a group without them knowing!

They will be so mad!

And to counter that they will have to then form a group to fight our group in terms of us grouping them!

Oh my. :rolleyes::cool:

LittleLightShining
03-22-2009, 01:43 PM
Than we can group them into a group of people who don't want to be in a group without them knowing!

They will be so mad!

And to counter that they will have to then form a group to fight our group in terms of us grouping them!

Oh my. :rolleyes::cool:I like being a PART of a group. But I still want to be me. What's wrong with that?

StudentForPaul08
03-22-2009, 02:25 PM
I like being a PART of a group. But I still want to be me. What's wrong with that?

Nothing. I am just playing with words. :D

ronpaulhawaii
03-22-2009, 02:42 PM
I like being a PART of a group. But I still want to be me. What's wrong with that?

Sorry, LLS. just playing around...

Some folks have posted things like
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs039.snc1/2611_1110821886674_1110662674_30355029_6563998_s.j pg

others have different styles, shots, designs,... lots of room to express oneself...


Nothing. I am just playing with words. :D

lol - hehe

LittleLightShining
03-22-2009, 02:53 PM
Nothing. I am just playing with words. :D


Sorry, LLS. just playing around...

Some folks have posted things like
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs039.snc1/2611_1110821886674_1110662674_30355029_6563998_s.j pg

others have different styles, shots, designs,... lots of room to express oneself...



lol - heheNo need to apologize :) Now if someone could find Hello Kitty holding a Gadsden I'd change it in a heartbeat :D:D:D

ronpaulhawaii
03-22-2009, 03:03 PM
No need to apologize :) Now if someone could find Hello Kitty holding a Gadsden I'd change it in a heartbeat :D:D:D

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/Hello-Kitty-gadsden.jpg

:D

MsDoodahs
03-22-2009, 03:26 PM
Okay, time for a change!

Matt Collins
03-22-2009, 07:03 PM
Why?Well it is my personal preference that tats are trashy. Also they tend to last forever and getting them removed is expensive, painful, and ineffective. Many people in our society tend to think less of individuals with tattoos and having one visible can possibly close opportunities for the future.

Matt Collins
03-22-2009, 07:03 PM
There will always be a group of people who don't like being part of any groupHey... I want to be different, just like everyone else.

Bill M DC
03-24-2009, 09:52 AM
No need to apologize :) Now if someone could find Hello Kitty holding a Gadsden I'd change it in a heartbeat :D:D:D

Ask Adam Kokesh to Photoshop on up for you:D

Bill M DC
03-24-2009, 09:56 AM
I took it as an opportunity to "friend" those who I deem as truly paying attention. I'll not get everyone but my confidence is raised in those who have hoisted the Gadsen flag on their virtual wall.

acptulsa
03-24-2009, 09:57 AM
This is ridiculous... are they saying George Washington was a terrorist by name now?

They're getting awfully close. Is this worse than them saying that people who understand that ignorance of the law is no excuse and actually read the Constitution of the United States somehow pose a threat to the nation?

ronpaulhawaii
03-24-2009, 10:00 AM
Ask Adam Kokesh to Photoshop on up for you:D

Hi Bill :) Great work for the DC event.

her av has already been built...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2031250&postcount=57

:D

LittleLightShining
03-24-2009, 10:08 AM
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/rpfs/hello-kitty-gadsden.jpg

:dawesome! Amazing! Fantastic! Thank you!

edit: What happened to it?

Bill M DC
03-24-2009, 10:09 AM
Hi Mike! Thanks:)

Smoke the Liberty Tree
03-24-2009, 10:24 AM
isnt that vandalism?

not if it's in pamphlet form. your constitutionally protected if you do that.

acptulsa
03-24-2009, 10:30 AM
not if it's in pamphlet form. your constitutionally protected if you do that.

You're right...

Self-adhesive, durable plastic Constitutions? Bills of Rights? Declarations?

LittleLightShining
03-24-2009, 10:38 AM
I was able to save the file. It's my new fb pic :)

ronpaulhawaii
03-24-2009, 10:42 AM
awesome! Amazing! Fantastic! Thank you!

edit: What happened to it?

Hmmm. not sure...

it is on this page...

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/Hello-Kitty-gadsden.jpg

LittleLightShining
03-24-2009, 10:43 AM
I love her so much I made her my avatar here, too!

ronpaulhawaii
03-24-2009, 10:46 AM
I love her so much I made her my avatar here, too!


:)

constituent
03-24-2009, 11:41 AM
No need to apologize :) Now if someone could find Hello Kitty holding a Gadsden I'd change it in a heartbeat :D:D:D

http://i41.tinypic.com/qovhat.jpg

if you want another background, lemme know.

Lord Xar
03-24-2009, 01:07 PM
anyone got a nice "facebook" ready image.. so I can just plop in?

LittleLightShining
03-24-2009, 01:11 PM
http://i41.tinypic.com/qovhat.jpg

if you want another background, lemme know.THANKS!
Holy cow! I love this one, too! I may never have a real picture of me on fb again!

FrankRep
03-24-2009, 01:11 PM
anyone got a nice "facebook" ready image.. so I can just plop in?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Gadsden&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

dirknb@hotmail.com
03-24-2009, 08:32 PM
My version:

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2675/97/114/756649114/n756649114_2282578_2619361.jpg

nbruno322
03-24-2009, 08:52 PM
you don't have one of those "snake" flags, do you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8pAIp6FEI

Gadsden Flag Lover
10-30-2010, 06:41 PM
Just discovered this forum and thread! Great thread, I wanted to let everyone know that we are having a huge effort to get people to change their profile picture to the Gadsden Flag for November 1-2! We have well over 200 now "attending" our facebook event, with several thousand invited so far. We want this to reach far and wide, maybe some people here know a thing or two about helping this go viral! Thanks and all your feedback is greatly appreciated!

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166801466679441#!/event.php?eid=166801466679441

ronpaulhawaii
10-31-2010, 09:44 PM
Just discovered this forum and thread! Great thread, I wanted to let everyone know that we are having a huge effort to get people to change their profile picture to the Gadsden Flag for November 1-2! We have well over 200 now "attending" our facebook event, with several thousand invited so far. We want this to reach far and wide, maybe some people here know a thing or two about helping this go viral! Thanks and all your feedback is greatly appreciated!

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166801466679441#!/event.php?eid=166801466679441

I wont have to change my pic :D but joined anyway... Welcome to the crucible