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Spider-Man
03-20-2009, 04:57 PM
So shut the fuck up already.

idiom
03-20-2009, 05:29 PM
So... thirsty people talk about water more than fish do.

coyote_sprit
03-20-2009, 05:36 PM
So... thirsty people talk about water more than fish do.

A poor person talks more about money then a rich person.

idiom
03-20-2009, 05:37 PM
An American talks about freedom more than the rest of the world.

coyote_sprit
03-20-2009, 05:39 PM
A non drinker talks more about alcohol then an alcoholic.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Christians talk more about the King of Jews than the Jews.

heavenlyboy34
03-20-2009, 06:16 PM
People talk about animals more than animals do. ;)

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 06:54 PM
Law abiders talk about murder more than murderers do, wonder why?

Spider-Man
03-20-2009, 07:29 PM
Most of your analogies are poor. Most of your statements are also false.

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 07:47 PM
Most of your analogies are poor. Most of your statements are also false.

how true is your statement?

is it not true that law abiders talk about murder openly more than murderers do?

Spider-Man
03-20-2009, 08:26 PM
how true is your statement?

is it not true that law abiders talk about murder openly more than murderers do?

I see you just added a modifier to your statement.

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 08:46 PM
I see you just added a modifier to your statement.

to make the statement meaningful yes.

Spider-Man
03-20-2009, 08:48 PM
to make the statement meaningful yes.

To make it no longer analogous/relevant yes.

asimplegirl
03-20-2009, 08:51 PM
Yep. And anti-gunners talk about gun violence more than gun owners, homeless people talk about having a home more than home owners, starving people talk about food more than those who eat on a regular basis, etc...

This is the way of life. Get over it.

idiom
03-20-2009, 08:51 PM
Aw Spidey. Add mor analogies. Don't be a hater.

asimplegirl
03-20-2009, 08:53 PM
nonsmokers talk about cigarette smoke more than smokers.

People with a stance against drugs talk about the risks of using more than users.

This is kinda fun.

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 08:56 PM
To make it no longer analogous/relevant yes.

what do you mean atheists talk more about religion?

why wouldn't they? They think it's a bad thing!

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 08:57 PM
Aw Spidey. Add mor analogies. Don't be a hater.

being a hater is cool, being a hater who can't respond is laughable.

heavenlyboy34
03-20-2009, 08:58 PM
nonsmokers talk about cigarette smoke more than smokers.

People with a stance against drugs talk about the risks of using more than users.

This is kinda fun.

People who fear the nude body fear public nudity and on-screen nudity more than regular ol' nude folks (at least, in this country). ;):D

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-20-2009, 09:13 PM
Theists talk about atheists more than atheists do.

Josh_LA
03-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Theists talk about atheists more than atheists do.

word!

Theocrat
03-20-2009, 10:36 PM
"Atheists" don't believe that God exists, but they also hate Him. :confused:

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-20-2009, 10:41 PM
"Atheists" don't believe that God exists, but they also hate Him. :confused:

people who "hate" God believe he exists.

true athiests don't hate God, just like believers.

M House
03-20-2009, 10:48 PM
Um how the hell can an atheist hate God? Still if s/he/it exists... yes, s/he/it can suck just as much as everything else.

Theocrat
03-20-2009, 10:53 PM
people who "hate" God believe he exists.

true athiests don't hate God, just like believers.

Gee, how many books have "atheists" spent hundreds of hours writing to express how much they hate a God which they don't even believe exists?

http://www.paulgibbons.net/publications/bookreviews/images/letterToAChristianNation.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yQmQ1ZvYAok/RpQAj9sIieI/AAAAAAAAAXo/SPOaAwuAuZE/s320/51lEQeeVBvL._AA240_.jpeg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CR1BZ2E0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg http://www.numenware.com/img/breaking-the-spell.jpg

M House
03-20-2009, 10:55 PM
Maybe they were bored?

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-20-2009, 10:57 PM
Gee, how many books have "atheists" spent hundreds of hours writing to express how much they hate a God which they don't even believe exists?

http://www.paulgibbons.net/publications/bookreviews/images/letterToAChristianNation.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yQmQ1ZvYAok/RpQAj9sIieI/AAAAAAAAAXo/SPOaAwuAuZE/s320/51lEQeeVBvL._AA240_.jpeg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CR1BZ2E0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg http://www.numenware.com/img/breaking-the-spell.jpg


You don't understand them because you've never tried empathizing with them. And there is nothing I can say that will help you. You've hardened your heart towards people you see as a threat.

I see four books there. Have you read them?

Theocrat
03-20-2009, 11:09 PM
You don't understand them because you've never tried empathizing with them. And there is nothing I can say that will help you. You've hardened your heart towards people you see as a threat.

I see four books there. Have you read them?

Yes, I've read those books, except for Daniel Dennett's book. They are replete with insults against God, which I find hilarious because their disagreements boil down to nothing but ad hominem attacks and straw men arguments. They just want to show the entire world how "wonderful" it is to openly hate God and how to make theists lose their faith in a God, which they themselves don't believe in. How arrogant and hypocritical of them to act in such a way, but it's to no avail. God will not be mocked, and their childish arguments have already been refuted.

By the way, I don't see those "atheists" as a threat. They have nothing solid to say against the existence of God. All they have are personal distastes for God, but just because you don't like someone doesn't mean the person is nonexistent.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-20-2009, 11:30 PM
Yes, I've read those books, except for Daniel Dennett's book. They are replete with insults against God, which I find hilarious because their disagreements boil down to nothing but ad hominem attacks and straw men arguments. They just want to show the entire world how "wonderful" it is to openly hate God and how to make theists lose their faith in a God, which they themselves don't believe in. How arrogant and hypocritical of them to act in such a way, but it's to no avail. God will not be mocked, and their childish arguments have already been refuted.

By the way, I don't see those "atheists" as a threat. They have nothing solid to say against the existence of God. All they have are personal distastes for God, but just because you don't like someone doesn't mean the person is nonexistent.

well, what about all those atheist who have nothing to say about God, positive or negative?

Kotin
03-20-2009, 11:35 PM
fail.

Theocrat
03-20-2009, 11:43 PM
well, what about all those atheist who have nothing to say about God, positive or negative?

They're the more modest ones, I would say. However, my experience has been that when discussions about God are raised in their presence, they either show their disgust for the evils which God allows, or they simply walk away.

trey4sports
03-20-2009, 11:47 PM
Yes, I've read those books, except for Daniel Dennett's book. They are replete with insults against God, which I find hilarious because their disagreements boil down to nothing but ad hominem attacks and straw men arguments. They just want to show the entire world how "wonderful" it is to openly hate God and how to make theists lose their faith in a God, which they themselves don't believe in. How arrogant and hypocritical of them to act in such a way, but it's to no avail. God will not be mocked, and their childish arguments have already been refuted.

By the way, I don't see those "atheists" as a threat. They have nothing solid to say against the existence of God. All they have are personal distastes for God, but just because you don't like someone doesn't mean the person is nonexistent.

Theocrat,
I come from a southern Baptist background. Growing up I always went to church on sunday and wednesday but right around 16 or 17 I began to look further into religion.

The reason i have become a stern atheist is based PURELY on science! seeing as how I find the logical argument for atheism much more convincing than for that of theism, (christianity more specifically)

I read the God Delusion and its brilliant, I't really put the nail in the coffin of religion for me.

anyway, im not sure how you can say that Atheism is based on personal distaste for God, seeing as Atheism is a highly intellectual movement based on rationalism and science. In fact the vast majority of the scientific community is Atheist

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-20-2009, 11:50 PM
They're the more modest ones, I would say. However, my experience has been that when discussions about God are raised in their presence, they either show their disgust for the evils which God allows, or they simply walk away.

i think your experiences with some atheists are clouding your understanding of what it is.

Like a rich white person who only sees poor black people being arrested on tv, prejudice builds itself out of ignorance.

on the flip side of that, the atheist that you've run into have probably built up their own prejudices from bad experiences with believers.


in the end, we're all human. - looking for answers.

Theocrat
03-20-2009, 11:58 PM
Theocrat,
I come from a southern Baptist background. Growing up I always went to church on sunday and wednesday but right around 16 or 17 I began to look further into religion.

The reason i have become a stern atheist is based PURELY on science! seeing as how I find the logical argument for atheism much more convincing than for that of theism, (christianity more specifically)

I read the God Delusion and its brilliant, I't really put the nail in the coffin of religion for me.

anyway, im not sure how you can say that Atheism is based on personal distaste for God, seeing as Atheism is a highly intellectual movement based on rationalism and science. In fact the vast majority of the scientific community is Atheist

It's not science or rationalism which makes one an "atheist" because Christians, like myself, believe in the utility of natural science and like to be rational when it comes to the existence of God, too. The issue is the worldviews we take for granted when we argue for or against God, whether they are assumed to be based on naturalism or supernaturalism.

So, you can't say that "atheism" is based upon science or rationality because I believe in both of those things as a Christian, and yet, I see them both as finding their basis in the existence of God as the precondition of intelligible experience. There are Christian scientists who are just as intelligent as the "atheist" scientists, so intellect is not the dividing line between Christian theism and "atheism," neither.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 12:07 AM
i think your experiences with some atheists are clouding your understanding of what it is.

Like a rich white person who only sees poor black people being arrested on tv, prejudice builds itself out of ignorance.

on the flip side of that, the atheist that you've run into have probably built up their own prejudices from bad experiences with believers.


in the end, we're all human. - looking for answers.

???

Theocrat
03-21-2009, 12:09 AM
i think your experiences with some atheists are clouding your understanding of what it is.

Like a rich white person who only sees poor black people being arrested on tv, prejudice builds itself out of ignorance.

on the flip side of that, the atheist that you've run into have probably built up their own prejudices from bad experiences with believers.


in the end, we're all human. - looking for answers.

No, I think I understand the philosophy of "atheism" well enough to know what it's all about as well as its implications as a system of thought and practice. I've studied the great "atheist" thinkers of the past and present, and their arguments have not changed substantially. They look for answers, but they start off with the wrong assumptions.

Sheepdog11
03-21-2009, 01:04 AM
"Atheists" don't believe that God exists, but they also hate Him. :confused:

Yeah, I'll bet you're confused, because this is completely not the case. Just because someone may point out the moral bankruptcy of a character such as Yahweh, doesn't mean they profess to hate said character as something that is real.

Think of any movie with a really villainous antagonist, one that you really just can't stand. You know this character doesn't actually exist, yet you still feel a sense of judgment towards it. Does that somehow render your non-belief of the character's actual existence invalid, or likewise your feelings contradictory?

The point is, I fail to see the alleged incoherence between disbelieving something, and disliking it. Furthermore, you're applying a blanket statement (atheists "hate" God) to an entire group when in reality only a small minority of atheists even hold this description.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 10:28 AM
anyway, im not sure how you can say that Atheism is based on personal distaste for God, seeing as Atheism is a highly intellectual movement based on rationalism and science. In fact the vast majority of the scientific community is Atheist

The vast majority of the scientific community is big-government Statist too. Is that because big government is rational or scientifically proven to be beneficial? Of course not, it's because most scientists are eating at the trough to one degree or another. Just because someone is a "scientist" doesn't mean all their personal beliefs are based on logic and science; they're just as likely to be based on financial self-preservation.

strapko
03-21-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't think Atheist talk more about god... It just when religious zealots come saying god this god that, Atheist feel threatened. And they need to defend themselves because god arguments have no rational, it is equal to the bogyman did it. Now if this religious just held a reasonable conversation or debate without going into scriptures and passing them of truth Atheist would not say a word.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 11:16 AM
I don't think Atheist talk more about god... It just when religious zealots come saying god this god that, Atheist feel threatened. And they need to defend themselves because god arguments have no rational, it is equal to the bogyman did it. Now if this religious just held a reasonable conversation or debate without going into scriptures and passing them of truth Atheist would not say a word.

Why would atheists feel threatened? Nothing a religious person can say or do will keep atheists from their ultimate dream of being worm food.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 11:25 AM
When 90% of the US population wont STFU about imaginary sky men, some of us feel its our duty to knock some sense into the rest of you guys.

Theocrat
03-21-2009, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I'll bet you're confused, because this is completely not the case. Just because someone may point out the moral bankruptcy of a character such as Yahweh, doesn't mean they profess to hate said character as something that is real.

Think of any movie with a really villainous antagonist, one that you really just can't stand. You know this character doesn't actually exist, yet you still feel a sense of judgment towards it. Does that somehow render your non-belief of the character's actual existence invalid, or likewise your feelings contradictory?

The point is, I fail to see the alleged incoherence between disbelieving something, and disliking it. Furthermore, you're applying a blanket statement (atheists "hate" God) to an entire group when in reality only a small minority of atheists even hold this description.

"Moral bankruptcy"? How can you even make such a claim when you don't have an objective standard for what true morality is as an "atheist"? Morals do not exist in an "atheist" universe of just random movement of atoms. Morals are not made of atoms, yet here you are appealing to them when they have no place in your natualistic worldview. Not only can't "atheists" stop talking against God, but they also can't stop stealing concepts such as morality from a Christian worldview.

As far as you claiming God is a "villainous antagonist," you may claim that, but that doesn't make it true. Antagonism is just one's point of view. Criminals usually think the police are antagonists when they are apprehended by them for committing a crime. They never think the police have done right by them, and so they're going to see the actions of cops as a threat against them or whatever it is they're doing. So it doesn't surprise me that you, being a criminal in the universe in God's eyes, would call Him a "villainous antagonist."

Also, using the analogy of comparing God to a movie villain simply does not hold. We know that characters in movies are not real. God, however, is indeed real, and He has manifested Himself in so many ways in this universe that it should be easy for any rational, moral human being to acknowledge His existence. God is not a movie character. He is the Creator, Sustainer, and Savior of the universe, whether you believe in Him or not. His existence is not based upon personal assent or subjective imagination, after all.

Well, I don't think I'm making a blanket statement when I say that all "atheists" hate God because they do. Not all "atheists" are going to be as open and militant about their hatred for God as Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, I know. However, the fact that "atheists" will not obey God but live for themselves already shows that they hate Him. Their unbelief is an act of hatred towards God, however subtle it may be.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 01:04 PM
"Moral bankruptcy"? How can you even make such a claim when you don't have an objective standard for what true morality is as an "atheist"? Morals do not exist in an "atheist" universe of just random movement of atoms. Morals are not made of atoms, yet here you are appealing to them when they have no place in your natualistic worldview. Not only can't "atheists" stop talking against God, but they also can't stop stealing concepts such as morality from a Christian worldview.

As far as you claiming God is a "villainous antagonist," you may claim that, but that doesn't make it true. Antagonism is just one's point of view. Criminals usually think the police are antagonists when they are apprehended by them for committing a crime. They never think the police have done right by them, and so they're going to see the actions of cops as a threat against them or whatever it is they're doing. So it doesn't surprise me that you, being a criminal in the universe in God's eyes, would call Him a "villainous antagonist."

Also, using the analogy of comparing God to a movie villain simply does not hold. We know that characters in movies are not real. God, however, is indeed real, and He has manifested Himself in so many ways in this universe that it should be easy for any rational, moral human being to acknowledge His existence. God is not a movie character. He is the Creator, Sustainer, and Savior of the universe, whether you believe in Him or not. His existence is not based upon personal assent or subjective imagination, after all.

Well, I don't think I'm making a blanket statement when I say that all "atheists" hate God because they do. Not all "atheists" are going to be as open and militant about their hatred for God as Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, I know. However, the fact that "atheists" will not obey God but live for themselves already shows that they hate Him. Their unbelief is an act of hatred towards God, however subtle it may be.

Great points. I think most atheists do harbor some animosity toward God and don't just reject Him on intellectual grounds. You often hear atheists say something like "I used to be Christian, but..." and then they launch into a story about how they feel God wronged them in some way.

Truth Warrior
03-21-2009, 01:10 PM
"Moral bankruptcy"? How can you even make such a claim when you don't have an objective standard for what true morality is as an "atheist"? Morals do not exist in an "atheist" universe of just random movement of atoms. Morals are not made of atoms, yet here you are appealing to them when they have no place in your natualistic worldview. Not only can't "atheists" stop talking against God, but they also can't stop stealing concepts such as morality from a Christian worldview.

As far as you claiming God is a "villainous antagonist," you may claim that, but that doesn't make it true. Antagonism is just one's point of view. Criminals usually think the police are antagonists when they are apprehended by them for committing a crime. They never think the police have done right by them, and so they're going to see the actions of cops as a threat against them or whatever it is they're doing. So it doesn't surprise me that you, being a criminal in the universe in God's eyes, would call Him a "villainous antagonist."

Also, using the analogy of comparing God to a movie villain simply does not hold. We know that characters in movies are not real. God, however, is indeed real, and He has manifested Himself in so many ways in this universe that it should be easy for any rational, moral human being to acknowledge His existence. God is not a movie character. He is the Creator, Sustainer, and Savior of the universe, whether you believe in Him or not. His existence is not based upon personal assent or subjective imagination, after all.

Well, I don't think I'm making a blanket statement when I say that all "atheists" hate God because they do. Not all "atheists" are going to be as open and militant about their hatred for God as Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, I know. However, the fact that "atheists" will not obey God but live for themselves already shows that they hate Him. Their unbelief is an act of hatred towards God, however subtle it may be.

The core message of all the world's religious writings is the same: ethical integrity, honesty, sincerity, compassion, tolerance and non-violence.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 01:14 PM
Great points. I think most atheists do harbor some animosity toward God and don't just reject Him on intellectual grounds. You often hear atheists say something like "I used to be Christian, but..." and then they launch into a story about how they feel God wronged them in some way.


that's right. you guys know exactly what it is like to not believe in God.

I guess if I need to know what it was like being a soldier I should ask a 14 boy who sits in front of his XBox all day.

what bothers me even more is that Christians are out to convert the world, but the only way to do that is to empathize with people. Yet you take a more militant approach and just say "Your wrong, we're right. Do what we do."

Then you get angry when we don't. You've got all kinds of names and slanders for us, which are accompanied by justifications for your actions.

You sound like the U.S Government in the War on Terror. Enjoy your Christian World Order.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 01:24 PM
that's right. you guys know exactly what it is like to not believe in God.

I guess if I need to know what it was like being a soldier I should ask a 14 boy who sits in front of his XBox all day.

what bothers me even more is that Christians are out to convert the world, but the only way to do that is to empathize with people. Yet you take a more militant approach and just say "Your wrong, we're right. Do what we do."

Then you get angry when we don't. You've got all kinds of names and slanders for us, which are accompanied by justifications for your actions.

You sound like the U.S Government in the War on Terror. Enjoy your Christian World Order.

You read a lot into my post that I didn't intend. I personally try to avoid namecalling and slandering. You're right that empathy is a good way to convert people and more people should remember that. I wouldn't say it's the only way. Everyone is different and responds to different approaches.

Theocrat
03-21-2009, 01:36 PM
that's right. you guys know exactly what it is like to not believe in God.

I guess if I need to know what it was like being a soldier I should ask a 14 boy who sits in front of his XBox all day.

what bothers me even more is that Christians are out to convert the world, but the only way to do that is to empathize with people. Yet you take a more militant approach and just say "Your wrong, we're right. Do what we do."

Then you get angry when we don't. You've got all kinds of names and slanders for us, which are accompanied by justifications for your actions.

You sound like the U.S Government in the War on Terror. Enjoy your Christian World Order.

It's not about "us being right and you being wrong." We're sharing our views and critiques of each other's belief systems for the sake of arriving at truth. Quite frankly, there are "atheists" who also have the attitude that "You're wrong. We're right. Do what we do." Yet, most Christians don't run to a legal organization or the government when our views aren't being accepted by the masses. "Atheists" do that. How do you think prayer, Bible reading, the Ten Commandments, and creationism were thrust out of the public schools? They came at the hands of people who, rather than take their children out of the schools and start their own, instead appealed to the State to enforce humanism upon the children by ridding the classrooms of any Christian thought.

We are in a war of worldviews. There is no neutrality, and that's why we need to discuss these things in a rational and respective manner. As much as it may seem to you, I don't hate "atheists." I understand that there are many experiences in your lives which caused you to abandon your faith in God, like the starvation of children in Africa, diseases in third world countries, poverty, etc. However, there is a way to reconcile those things with the goodness of God. God has not abandoned His creation. He loves us enough to send the rain upon the just and the unjust. However, "atheists" would rather turn away from this reality and hide under the guise of "Science" or "Reason." I know it's hard to accept a God when it seems like there is so much going wrong in the world. The job of the Christian is to provide hope in love by means of sharing the good news of his faith.

So, please don't take these discussions as simply a "We win. You Lose." sort of thing. The issue is robust expression of ideas in the area of our thinking and what we believe to be true, real, moral, logical, and beautiful from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. :)

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 01:40 PM
Great points. I think most atheists do harbor some animosity toward God and don't just reject Him on intellectual grounds. You often hear atheists say something like "I used to be Christian, but..." and then they launch into a story about how they feel God wronged them in some way.

I used to believe in Santa Clause, but. . .

I guess I dont really reject Santa's existence, I just have some animosity towards him. Some type of deep hatred of a man sneaking into my house in the dark of night and leaving presents. Yep, you caught me.

RideTheDirt
03-21-2009, 02:19 PM
Atheist believe that everything evolves in an intelligent manner, in a way that keeps the good and destroys the bad.

I believe it does this because that is what is was made to do. Something that is intelligent always seems to be the thing that survives. Humans are very interesting, and even the dumbest person can see they are very unique beings.The smartest ones are the people who succeed. The quality of life you live really depends on how smart you are. Well, In my opinion whatever makes us want to do the best we can with what we have is God. Atheists can call it whatever they want, but either way you have to live right to succeed.

Sheepdog11
03-21-2009, 02:24 PM
"Moral bankruptcy"? How can you even make such a claim when you don't have an objective standard for what true morality is as an "atheist"? Morals do not exist in an "atheist" universe of just random movement of atoms. Morals are not made of atoms, yet here you are appealing to them when they have no place in your natualistic worldview. Not only can't "atheists" stop talking against God, but they also can't stop stealing concepts such as morality from a Christian worldview.

You're willfully ignorant at this point, I've explained this a dozen times. Why does one need ABSOLUTE morals in order to abide by them? Is it impossible for someone to have subjective morals and abide by them?

Furthermore, if God's the one deciding what's right and wrong, it's still relative to him. If God's not the one deciding them, then they exist outside of him anyway.


As far as you claiming God is a "villainous antagonist," you may claim that, but that doesn't make it true.

I never claimed he was.


Antagonism is just one's point of view. Criminals usually think the police are antagonists when they are apprehended by them for committing a crime. They never think the police have done right by them, and so they're going to see the actions of cops as a threat against them or whatever it is they're doing. So it doesn't surprise me that you, being a criminal in the universe in God's eyes, would call Him a "villainous antagonist."

*facepalm*


Also, using the analogy of comparing God to a movie villain simply does not hold. We know that characters in movies are not real. God, however, is indeed real, and He has manifested Himself in so many ways in this universe that it should be easy for any rational, moral human being to acknowledge His existence. God is not a movie character. He is the Creator, Sustainer, and Savior of the universe, whether you believe in Him or not. His existence is not based upon personal assent or subjective imagination, after all.

In other words, it's an entirely appropriate analogy because atheists DON'T BELIEVE GOD IS REAL. I've seen absolutely no good evidence for believing he is.


Well, I don't think I'm making a blanket statement when I say that all "atheists" hate God because they do. Not all "atheists" are going to be as open and militant about their hatred for God as Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, I know. However, the fact that "atheists" will not obey God but live for themselves already shows that they hate Him. Their unbelief is an act of hatred towards God, however subtle it may be.

Keep making unfounded claims, lol. "They may not SAY it, but they really do hate him, I just KNOW IT!" ...wow.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 02:26 PM
It's not about "us being right and you being wrong." We're sharing our views and critiques of each other's belief systems for the sake of arriving at truth. Quite frankly, there are "atheists" who also have the attitude that "You're wrong. We're right. Do what we do." Yet, most Christians don't run to a legal organization or the government when our views aren't being accepted by the masses. "Atheists" do that. How do you think prayer, Bible reading, the Ten Commandments, and creationism were thrust out of the public schools? They came at the hands of people who, rather than take their children out of the schools and start their own, instead appealed to the State to enforce humanism upon the children by ridding the classrooms of any Christian thought.

We are in a war of worldviews. There is no neutrality, and that's why we need to discuss these things in a rational and respective manner. As much as it may seem to you, I don't hate "atheists." I understand that there are many experiences in your lives which caused you to abandon your faith in God, like the starvation of children in Africa, diseases in third world countries, poverty, etc. However, there is a way to reconcile those things with the goodness of God. God has not abandoned His creation. He loves us enough to send the rain upon the just and the unjust. However, "atheists" would rather turn away from this reality and hide under the guise of "Science" or "Reason." I know it's hard to accept a God when it seems like there is so much going wrong in the world. The job of the Christian is to provide hope in love by means of sharing the good news of his faith.

So, please don't take these discussions as simply a "We win. You Lose." sort of thing. The issue is robust expression of ideas in the area of our thinking and what we believe to be true, real, moral, logical, and beautiful from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. :)

like i said, you have no idea why anyone truely becomes an atheist. if you think it is that simple, you are seriously mistaken.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 02:36 PM
like i said, you have no idea why anyone truely becomes an atheist. if you think it is that simple, you are seriously mistaken.

So why are you an atheist?

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 02:48 PM
So why are you an atheist?

if you really want to know and understand the answer to that question then you will allow me the time to produce it for you. When I present it to you, you won't attempt to discredit what I say, show me my errors, or try and convince me that I'm reacting to negative experiences in my life.

What you will do if you really want to understand is to ask more questions, and when you get the answers to those, ask more questions. So far you haven't convinced me that you are up for that. You certainly haven't earned my trust, which you'll need if I am to answer you.

What I think you are looking for is for me to try and use reason and logic to explain away my perspective of the world. I'll do this and then you'll refute it. And then I'll come back at you and refute that. It will go on and on just as it has for centuries.

Just the thought of that wearies me.

We could try something else.

Start from a common place.

I am seeking the Truth about who I am, why I am here. The cold, hard, unfettered Truth.

What are you seeking?

Theocrat
03-21-2009, 02:58 PM
like i said, you have no idea why anyone truely becomes an atheist. if you think it is that simple, you are seriously mistaken.


if you really want to know and understand the answer to that question then you will allow me the time to produce it for you. When I present it to you, you won't attempt to discredit what I say, show me my errors, or try and convince me that I'm reacting to negative experiences in my life.

What you will do if you really want to understand is to ask more questions, and when you get the answers to those, ask more questions. So far you haven't convinced me that you are up for that. You certainly haven't earned my trust, which you'll need if I am to answer you.

What I think you are looking for is for me to try and use reason and logic to explain away my perspective of the world. I'll do this and then you'll refute it. And then I'll come back at you and refute that. It will go on and on just as it has for centuries.

Just the thought of that wearies me.

We could try something else.

Start from a common place.

I am seeking the Truth about who I am, why I am here. The cold, hard, unfettered Truth.

What are you seeking?

What am I not understanding?

idiom
03-21-2009, 03:10 PM
Sigh. This was turning out to be such a fun thread.

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 03:39 PM
if you really want to know and understand the answer to that question then you will allow me the time to produce it for you. When I present it to you, you won't attempt to discredit what I say, show me my errors, or try and convince me that I'm reacting to negative experiences in my life.

What you will do if you really want to understand is to ask more questions, and when you get the answers to those, ask more questions. So far you haven't convinced me that you are up for that. You certainly haven't earned my trust, which you'll need if I am to answer you.

What I think you are looking for is for me to try and use reason and logic to explain away my perspective of the world. I'll do this and then you'll refute it. And then I'll come back at you and refute that. It will go on and on just as it has for centuries.

Just the thought of that wearies me.

We could try something else.

Start from a common place.

I am seeking the Truth about who I am, why I am here. The cold, hard, unfettered Truth.

What are you seeking?

I was just curious. If you're not comfortable sharing your reasons that's fine too.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 04:33 PM
What are you seeking?

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 07:55 PM
I was just curious. If you're not comfortable sharing your reasons that's fine too.

Because I dont believe in any of the claims about gods or the supernatural? I mean, why dont I believe in gargoyles? I just dont. Doesnt take much of an explanation. As far as I am concerned, the claim has not met its burden of proof.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Lets apply this argument to another issue.

9/11 truth.

Everyone believes the terrorist attacks were staged by the guvmnet. There are just some who are in denial, because they are afraid of the retaliation form the government, or they have some built up hatred of the core of the truth movement. But deep down, they know in their heart it was staged by Bush. I dont believe in people who dont believe in 9/11 truth.


Do you not see how fucking stupid this argument is?

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 08:05 PM
Lets apply this argument to another issue.

9/11 truth.

Everyone believes the terrorist attacks were staged by the guvmnet. There are just some who are in denial, because they are afraid of the retaliation form the government, or they have some built up hatred of the core of the truth movement. But deep down, they know in their heart it was staged by Bush. I dont believe in people who dont believe in 9/11 truth.


Do you not see how fucking stupid this argument is?

I see it. I don't see how the analogy applies to this conversation though.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 08:10 PM
I see it. I don't see how the analogy applies to this conversation though.

Have you not read any of your boyfriend, Theo's, posts?

TurtleBurger
03-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Have you not read any of your boyfriend, Theo's, posts?

You think Theo is a truther?

Mitt Romneys sideburns
03-21-2009, 08:13 PM
You think Theo is a truther?

. . .

He is making the argument that atheists dont really disbelieve in God, they juts hate him, so they pretend they dont believe in him.

Josh_LA
03-21-2009, 08:21 PM
. . .

He is making the argument that atheists dont really disbelieve in God, they juts hate him, so they pretend they dont believe in him.

Yeah, that's quite true, I HATE Godzilla and Santa Claus, and Tooth fairy and Leprechauns, if I had it my way I'd kill all these f---ers, but I don't, so I can only say I DON'T believe they exist, that's the best way to show my hatred against these factual beings that I wish didn't exist.

Josh_LA
03-21-2009, 08:23 PM
So why are you an atheist?

I'm an a-theist the same way you're an a-Odinist, and a-Zeusist, or an-elfist.

You have no good reason to believe Odin, Zeus and elves exist, so why should you have to justify your lack of belief to somebody making the extraordinary claim that X exists?

Spider-Man
03-21-2009, 08:33 PM
I'm so sick of these juvenile arguments between atheists and theists.

You're all fucking retarded.

Josh_LA
03-21-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm so sick of these juvenile arguments between atheists and theists.

You're all fucking retarded.

you start a thread and now we're all retarded, OK.

Spider-Man
03-21-2009, 08:44 PM
you start a thread and now we're all retarded, OK.

No, you were retarded to begin with.

Josh_LA
03-21-2009, 08:45 PM
No, you were retarded to begin with.

Ok then.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 10:18 PM
people start these threads because they want an argument.
people want an argument because they are not ok with themselves.
people are not ok with themselves because they fear taking a hard look at who they really are.
people fear finding out who they are because of the consequences knowing would bring.


fighting is just another diversion.

Spider-Man
03-21-2009, 10:32 PM
people start these threads because they want an argument.
people want an argument because they are not ok with themselves.
people are not ok with themselves because they fear taking a hard look at who they really are.
people fear finding out who they are because of the consequences knowing would bring.


fighting is just another diversion.

I agree with point #1, because obviously I started this thread to call out all these bullshit geniuses who feel it is their duty to tell us all why religion is ridiculous/contradictory/hypocritical/incorrect/etc, however you lost me on the other, bullshit, pseudo-philosophical conclusions.

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-21-2009, 10:33 PM
I agree with point #1, because obviously I started this thread to call out all these bullshit geniuses who feel it is their duty to tell us all why religion is ridiculous/contradictory/hypocritical/incorrect/etc, however you lost me on the other, bullshit, pseudo-philosophical conclusions.

and yet, you fit right in. :)

Spider-Man
03-21-2009, 10:40 PM
and yet, you fit right in. :)

"and yet, you fit right in. :)"

*shit-eating grin

*pats self on back