Alex Jones appeared on Judge Napolitano's Fox show

[emazur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGlqUNqUpU
http://digg.com/educational/Alex_Jones_on_FOX_with_Judge_Napolitano
You don't see AJ appear on Fox everyday

[axiomata]

To be honest, I'd rather not have to see him on it again.

[Dripping Rain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGlqUNqUpU
http://digg.com/educational/Alex_Jones_on_FOX_with_Judge_Napolitano
You don't see AJ appear on Fox everyday

thanks emazur. it was good to see AJ on the Judge's show. hes a real ally of Ron Paul

[Stary Hickory]

Alex Jones scares the krap out of me. I am glad he is carrying the fight, but I hope to god he is wrong about the NWO. It seems too far out there for me, I mean I know that there is an idea about this, but as far as intentionally planned economic collapse and violent take overs...that seems too much.

[UnReconstructed]

awesome

EDIT: I'm glad he was able to plug the new film and infowars

[Matt Collins]

This is amazing.. Im' surprised.

[ClayTrainor]

That was a very good interview.

[Chieftain1776]

To be honest, I'd rather not have to see him on it again.

Yeah honestly it made me kind of sad. There's this game going on by the MSM and scumbag RINOs like David Frum. He is already going after Beck and his FEMA camp theorizing: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=30edc824-3d2c-40fa-b904-cb1442e2bcaf. Now having a well known conspiracy theorist like Alex Jones on Fox News makes it so much easier to smear us all as conspiracy theorists. And it seems like Judge Napalitano basically agreed with Alex Jones theories which makes me even more sad and disappointed.

I loathe David Frum but he has a speaking perch at Newsweek (4 million circulation) and was on Meet the Press (3 million viewers) mainly b/c he's perceived as a "right winger" that is going against his party. Liberals love that. He's no moderate he's just a neoconservative ideologue. Neocons don't care about social policies so the media thinks he's just being a moderate. His character (to the extent one can tell via his writings) and his Neocon extremism is shown here:

"They began by hating the neoconservatives. They came to hate their party and this president. They have finished by hating their country.

War is a great clarifier. It forces people to take sides. The paleoconservatives have chosen — and the rest of us must choose too. In a time of danger, they have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them."
http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/frum031903.asp

Once he finds out about Alex Jones it'll get even more disgusting than that. And that was with no cause...with Alex Jones around I don't know how effectively we can fight the narrative he and others surely going to build up.

[pcosmar]

Good interview, Good points.
Downright mainstream. ;)

[strapko]

Something is fishy about this kind of stuff being discussed on the faux channel

[TheConstitutionLives]

I was sick to my stomach when I saw him come on. We lose people everytime he's mentioned in association with Dr. Paul. Crossing my fingers he won't be on again.

[TheConstitutionLives]

Something is fishy about this kind of stuff being discussed on the faux channel

The CIA is behind it. You didn't know?

[Dorfsmith]

I was sick to my stomach when I saw him come on. We lose people everytime he's mentioned in association with Dr. Paul. Crossing my fingers he won't be on again.

I'm willing to bet we gained more than we lost with that interview. Either way, I enjoyed it.

[donnay]

Alex was great as usual. Napolitano was great too. They always compliment each other. I love when Judge Napolitano is a guest on Alex's show. He is definitely someone on Fox News that gets what's really going on--the larger picture. I am actually surprised he has his on show on Fox.

[ClayTrainor]

The CIA is behind it. You didn't know?

Dude, your fighting a battle you can't win. Give up...

You challenge AJ supporters in every thread i see you in anymore, it's getting irritating.

We're all aware of your positions, and plenty of us still like him. i'm personally indifferent about him, but this was a solid interview

AJ says some good stuff from time to time, and said nothing out of line in this interview.

[Conza88]

This is amazing.. Im' surprised.

I'm not.

What you will now see from the Media (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=177088)

This doesn't air on Fox btw... not the Tv channel.

[Conza88]

I was sick to my stomach when I saw him come on. We lose people everytime he's mentioned in association with Dr. Paul. Crossing my fingers he won't be on again.

Ron Paul Speech - One World Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTaekA8&eu#t=3m00s)


"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?

Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.

"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."

Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCHXLvlTTng)


"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

"They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

"You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"

Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below... :)

Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_63/2318000/2318082/2/print/2318082.pdf)

Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UydCZJeQPPQ)


"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"

Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."

[TheConstitutionLives]

I'm willing to bet we gained more than we lost with that interview. Either way, I enjoyed it.


Are you kidding me? Jones has a huge stigma as an egomaniacal exaggerator attached to him. He's entertaining but people think he's crazy b/c of his approach. Many tune us out b/c of our association with him. It doesn't mean he doesn't do good some of the time but overall he does the movement harm. Do we want David Duke being a major spokesman in the liberty movement eventhough he has some good qualities as well? No. If the average dumbed down American was willing and able to tolerate someone b/c they have some good qualities then yes. But that's not the reality. Unfortunately, in the game of political persuasion we're currently engaged in it's very important to limit any negative qualities or associations. If that were not true then politicians the world over wouldn't be trying to suppress any negative press about themselves. Politicians wouldn't need campaign advisors, strategists, and managers b/c people would accept them for who they are.

[Conza88]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/601/1226189908040hq6.jpg


I win. :cool:

[donnay]

Are you kidding me? Jones has a huge stigma as an egomaniacal exaggerator attached to him. He's entertaining but people think he's crazy b/c of his approach. Many tune us out b/c of our association with him. It doesn't mean he doesn't do good some of the time but overall he does the movement harm. Do we want David Duke being a major spokesman in the liberty movement eventhough he has some good qualities as well? No. If the average dumbed down American was willing and able to tolerate someone b/c they have some good qualities then yes. But that's not the reality. Unfortunately, in the game of political persuasion we're currently engaged in it's very important to limit any negative qualities or associations. If that were not true then politicians the world over wouldn't be trying to suppress any negative press about themselves. Politicians wouldn't need campaign advisors, strategists, and managers b/c people would accept them for who they are.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...a person who says he is a Ron Paul supporter that is for censorship?

Me thinks you have been drinking much to much fluoridated water. :rolleyes:

[Dripping Rain]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/601/1226189908040hq6.jpg


I win. :cool:

lmao
thats the cutest pic ive seen in a while
thanks Conza
notice how he looks like AJ? lolol

[TheConstitutionLives]

Ron Paul Speech - One World Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTaekA8&eu#t=3m00s)


"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?

Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.

"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."

Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCHXLvlTTng)


"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

"They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

"You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"

Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below... :)

Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_63/2318000/2318082/2/print/2318082.pdf)

Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UydCZJeQPPQ)


"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"

Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."

- So? Paul has a hard enough time being taken seriously by the public for his own statements. He doesn't need any help from AJ.

[TheConstitutionLives]

We're all aware of your positions, and plenty of us still like him.


- I like alot of the work he does myself. We gotta look at this thing as a marketing campaign, however, and many are sacrificing the growth of the movement b/c they're infatuated with AJ.

[axiomata]

- I like alot of the work he does myself. We gotta look at this thing as a marketing campaign, however, and many are sacrificing the growth of the movement b/c they're infatuated with AJ.
You have been here for a while, you must remember that arguments over the marketing of Ron Paul during the height of his campaign. Some people just disagree that it should be a concern. They would rather remain true to themselves than self censor to improve public perception.

[Joe3113]

- I like alot of the work he does myself. We gotta look at this thing as a marketing campaign, however, and many are sacrificing the growth of the movement b/c they're infatuated with AJ.

How about you [Insult redacted] and we stick with AJ?

He has actually DONE SOMETHING to preserve liberty.

AJ was on the show because what he has been saying for 15 years is actually happening.

Ron Paul has been talking about the move to a socialist One World Government under the United Nations for 30 years.

Go read the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Go read the endless list of publications where the oligarchs are actually admitting all of this.

[Insult redacted]

[yongrel]

Folks, stop bitching at each other. "Divide and conquer" is only made more effective when we're doing the division ourselves.

Instead of screaming at each other and telling each other to fuck off, perhaps you should try working together to get the show on the air, period. During the process of making Freedom Watch a success, let the producers of the show know what you think of the content and what you want to see from the show.

No one wants Freedom Watch to fail. Fox wants to make money, and we want to spread liberty. If you're not contributing to either, you may want to reevaluate your stance.

My position on Alex Jones is fairly conspicuous on these forums, but right now there are more productive ways to make Freedom Watch a better show than hollering at each other.

[Conza88]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/ChiefIllini23/Funny/crazy_fat_kid.gif

[TheConstitutionLives]

How about you [Insult redacted] and we stick with AJ?


[Insult redacted]


- That's awfully Christ-like of you. Thanks.

[RevolutionSD]

I used to be a big Alex Jones fan but have serious disagreements with his philosophy and tacticts now.
One, he believes in government, and thinks we just need to get the "right" people elected and they will somehow "follow the constitution". The odds of this happening are zero.

Two, he's a closed borders guy. I'm for freedom in every area. If we take down the warfare/welfare state, there is no point in militarizing the borders, which is just putting more faith in government.

Three, he's very religious. I don't like it when he talks about God on his show. I feel that it has no place in the libertarian discussion.

Four, at the DNC last year he staged the incident with Michelle Malkin. There's a video of him pushing a guy and then claiming he was being pushed. That's bush league stuff.

[Reason]

To be honest, I'd rather not have to see him on it again.

agreed!

[TheConstitutionLives]

I used to be a big Alex Jones fan but have serious disagreements with his philosophy and tacticts now.
One, he believes in government, and thinks we just need to get the "right" people elected and they will somehow "follow the constitution". The odds of this happening are zero.

Two, he's a closed borders guy. I'm for freedom in every area. If we take down the warfare/welfare state, there is no point in militarizing the borders, which is just putting more faith in government.

Three, he's very religious. I don't like it when he talks about God on his show. I feel that it has no place in the libertarian discussion.

Four, at the DNC last year he staged the incident with Michelle Malkin. There's a video of him pushing a guy and then claiming he was being pushed. That's bush league stuff.


- Prepare to be told to Fuk off.

Jones wants a Constitution Party style biblical THEOCRACY in America. That's what Iran is.

[donnay]

-

Jones wants a Constitution Party style biblical theocracy in America. That's what Iran is.


What's wrong with Iran?

[TheConstitutionLives]

What's wrong with Iran?

- It's a religious theocracy.

[donnay]

- It's a religious theocracy.


They are more westernize than we are.

Do you know that Iran has about 25,000 Jews. So obviously they do not push any religion at the barrel of a gun.

[TheConstitutionLives]

They are more westernize than we are.

Do you know that Iran has about 25,000 Jews. So obviously they do not push any religion at the barrel of a gun.

- You're splitting hairs. But, whatever. It's irrelevant to my point. Take out "Iran" and insert any religious theocracy.

[pcosmar]

- You're splitting hairs. But, whatever. It's irrelevant to my point. Take out "Iran" and insert any religious theocracy.

I would be far more concerned with the atheist ones.
Soviet Russia
China
North viet Nam
North Korea
Etc etc.

[revolutionary8]

- Prepare to be told to Fuk off.

Jones wants a Constitution Party style biblical THEOCRACY in America. That's what Iran is.
Misguided anarchist alert. :) I see why the conclusion has been made, but fail to see the practicality of the OUTCOME. Anarchy leads to a/an dictator/oligarchy.
newwww thank yew.

[TheConstitutionLives]

I would be far more concerned with the atheist ones.
Soviet Russia
China
North viet Nam
North Korea
Etc etc.

- A religious one is just as bad an athiest one. They both supress, both are anti-freedom.

I'm guessing you want a religious theocracy as long as its in accord with your religous beliefs otherwise you wouldn't have made that statement. If that is so, and that is what we were to end up with in the future America you should know that it's you who will become the target of the true freedom seekers.

[TheConstitutionLives]

Misguided anarchist alert. :) I see why the conclusion has been made, but fail to see the practicality of the OUTCOME. Anarchy leads to a/an dictator/oligarchy.
newwww thank yew.

- I'm not an anarchist, brother.

[revolutionary8]

- I'm not an anarchist, brother.

I quoted your quote. I don't think you are an anarchist, I just piggybacked ya. :D
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens1555741_1228970838large_laughing_pig_with_bord er.jpg
I was addressing this comment:

Originally Posted by RevolutionSD
I used to be a big Alex Jones fan but have serious disagreements with his philosophy and tacticts now.
One, he believes in government, and thinks we just need to get the "right" people elected and they will somehow "follow the constitution". The odds of this happening are zero.

Two, he's a closed borders guy. I'm for freedom in every area. If we take down the warfare/welfare state, there is no point in militarizing the borders, which is just putting more faith in government.

Three, he's very religious. I don't like it when he talks about God on his show. I feel that it has no place in the libertarian discussion.

Four, at the DNC last year he staged the incident with Michelle Malkin. There's a video of him pushing a guy and then claiming he was being pushed. That's bush league stuff.
(not that I have anything against anarchists, I just don't like the "usual" outcome)
no disrespect intended.
PS RevSD- WHEN has Alex called for a "Militarized Border". AFAIK, He stands with RP- Get rid of the incentives. thus we will need no wall.
REPEAL NAFTA/CAFTA/GATT!!!!!!

[Joe3113]

- Prepare to be told to Fuk off.

Jones wants a Constitution Party style biblical THEOCRACY in America. That's what Iran is.

ummmm ...... how many Christians are saying legalize pot and other drugs?

[TheConstitutionLives]

ummmm ...... how many Christians are saying legalize pot and other drugs?


The Constitution Party is against the federal drug war as far as I know so that issue has never been a concern of mine.

[dannno]

Wow, I think just about every anti-AJ troll came out of the woodworks for this one.

I just want to say, you guys disgust me.

[Joe3113]

The Constitution Party is against the federal drug war as far as I know so that issue has never been a concern of mine.

The constitution says explicity that congress cannot make laws respecting certain religions over others.

Alex would not support policies considered Christian but not consistent with liberty.

And don't throw abortion out there, there is a strong libertarian case for being against abortion, as Ron Paul indicates.

When you say "theocracy", what specific policies are you referring to?

[revolutionary8]

yeah,
Alex is somewhat of a *survivor*, and I don't mean the "survivor" alotta you fuckwads are addicted to.
(come to me with your grammar lessons after OUR FOOD has been taken, you WILL see PISSED)

[jmdrake]

Yeah honestly it made me kind of sad. There's this game going on by the MSM and scumbag RINOs like David Frum. He is already going after Beck and his FEMA camp theorizing: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=30edc824-3d2c-40fa-b904-cb1442e2bcaf. Now having a well known conspiracy theorist like Alex Jones on Fox News makes it so much easier to smear us all as conspiracy theorists. And it seems like Judge Napalitano basically agreed with Alex Jones theories which makes me even more sad and disappointed.


That's one way to look at it. The other way is that the more Alex Jones message gets out in the mainstream the less "crazy" Ron Paul looks. Face it, Ron Paul is a conspiracy theorist. He just hasn't signed on to 9/11. Everything else Alex Jones was talking about in that interview Ron Paul has talked about.



I loathe David Frum but he has a speaking perch at Newsweek (4 million circulation) and was on Meet the Press (3 million viewers) mainly b/c he's perceived as a "right winger" that is going against his party. Liberals love that. He's no moderate he's just a neoconservative ideologue. Neocons don't care about social policies so the media thinks he's just being a moderate. His character (to the extent one can tell via his writings) and his Neocon extremism is shown here:

"They began by hating the neoconservatives. They came to hate their party and this president. They have finished by hating their country.

War is a great clarifier. It forces people to take sides. The paleoconservatives have chosen — and the rest of us must choose too. In a time of danger, they have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them."
http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/frum031903.asp

Once he finds out about Alex Jones it'll get even more disgusting than that. And that was with no cause...with Alex Jones around I don't know how effectively we can fight the narrative he and others surely going to build up.

:rolleyes: Last year all of the chicken littles were worried about what the "right wingers" thought. Now all of the chicken littles are worried about what the liberals think. Screw what they think. We won't get anywhere keeping people in their comfort zone. At some point people have to be shaken up if they are going to go for change that you can really believe in! The "play it safe" theory lost us the election. It also lost Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter the election. I mention them because they also pushed for "limited government" and didn't have to worry about the "Alex Jones factor".

Here the bottom line. As long as people are left in the illusion that Obama - Clinton camps and the Bush - McCain camps are really at odds with each other they will keep making the same false choices. We have to expose the fact that they really work together. By definition that's "conspiracy".

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Chieftain1776]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and was thinking about making a separate thread about this. Maybe I will and it'll be entitled the roles of conspiracies and liberty in the Ron Paul political movement.


That's one way to look at it. The other way is that the more Alex Jones message gets out in the mainstream the less "crazy" Ron Paul looks. Face it, Ron Paul is a conspiracy theorist. He just hasn't signed on to 9/11. Everything else Alex Jones was talking about in that interview Ron Paul has talked about.

Given the evidence on Ron Paul I'm almost willing to grant that he is one of your fellow conspiracy theorists. I think Pat Buchanan is too. I hope he's just pandering to you and have some evidence that might be the case but he could just be pandering to us libertarians. Anyway if true it saddens me on a personal level because now it's possible they don't care for liberty for liberty's sake....they're just alarmed that some immediate threat coming from CFR/NWO/Trilateral Commission/Jews, etc

To Ron Paul and other's credit they write great pieces and have distinguished careers that stand on their own...it's just unfortunate that the motivation seems like they're rationalizing their previous prejudices.

For example it's not support for Austrian economics and non-intervention for their own sake...but it's because if we don't have a fed or believe in non-intervention THE ILLUMINATI/JEWS WILL RULE US :eek: Politically we wind up with similar policies and I don't even mind having to share the same political space with supporters but that the leaders themselves think like that is just troubling for me personally.


:rolleyes: Last year all of the chicken littles were worried about what the "right wingers" thought. Now all of the chicken littles are worried about what the liberals think. Screw what they think. We won't get anywhere keeping people in their comfort zone. At some point people have to be shaken up if they are going to go for change that you can really believe in! The "play it safe" theory lost us the election. It also lost Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter the election. I mention them because they also pushed for "limited government" and didn't have to worry about the "Alex Jones factor".

As I wrote previously I don't care what David Frum thinks.... I care what the average American left or right will think once they find this stuff out and Frum has the forum and motivation to play this up as much as possible. The average person will chalk up Ron Paul's positions to his belief in conspiracy theories and not to a genuine belief that liberty is important and necessary.

To put it another way: If the average American doesn't believe the Illuminati/Jews are coming to get them then they'll probably be more worried about retaining middle class entitlements and big government which might not adversely affect them for awhile down the road. I really do wonder sometimes what political beliefs you guys (and Ron Paul) would have if you found out there WASN'T an NWO/CFR/Trilateral/Jew conspiracy.

The main thing that bothers me though is that this whole thing maybe becoming about expressing a subculture. It's like vegans/snooty socialites/feminists supporting Democrats or the End-of-Days-rapturists/Rednecks/greedy businessmen supporting the Republicans not b/c of the policies but b/c "they're good Christians/Libertines just like me" or "eew I don't want to see those hicks/feminazis in power". Instead of the main subcultures we've got a conspiracy/survivalist/domininist subculture that wants to express itself just for the sake of expressing itself.

I'm worried that it's not about spreading liberty but about "rattling the sheeple" into recognizing your subculture. Kind of like what some homosexuals do with their "Gay Pride" parades. And once you guys saw Alex Jones on Fox your reaction was "We've made it to the mainstream...Yay" or "Eat that mainstream sheeple!!" not whether it was a good thing for the liberty movement itself.

I relistened to Alex Jones (and the Judge) on Freedom Watch and yes he cites MSM sources but he still was pushing the conspiracies. You can believe that Gordon Brown is a power hungry politician without believing he's part of the Illuminati or their pawn. And I'm guessing he was being restrained as I don't listen to his regular shows.

I'm just saying if this is just about a subculture with some political activism sprinkled in I'd probably be more comfortable with the Reason/Cato crowd or picking up a real hobby. I'm hoping you guys are getting played by Ron Paul, the Judge etc but I'm thinking it's more that the principled libertarian/conservatives are. So, YAY YOU WIN Ron Paul believes in conspiracies JUST LIKE YOU.

To wrap it up, I'm still on board but if it becomes about getting the "Truth" out instead of the message of liberty...I'll figure out something else to do. As for the politics of it I've said elsewhere (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1963934&postcount=72)I don't really care about short term specific political gains on the right wing or left. I just want the message of liberty to get out mostly to those who are already sympathetic to it. If that means talking about it to conspiracy theorists, or even racists, bigots, anti-semites fine. But it shouldn't be the other way around...they shouldn't get a forum on things like "Freedom Watch" to preach about their subculture.

[constituent]

Something is fishy about this kind of stuff being discussed on the faux channel

to the non-fox audience:


you

=

(

http://www.ktar.com/emedia/az/3/358/35831.jpg




+



http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5446/jonestardkj8.gif



+



http://www.bubbabohacks.com/podcast/bubba.jpg

)



*


(


http://arachnerd.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/unibomber1.jpg


+


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e990blduM7U1/340x.jpg


+


http://www.jaynadavis.com/images/image020.jpg


)







...and it'll probably work

[constituent]

To wrap it up, I'm still on board but if it becomes about getting the "Truth" out instead of the message of liberty...I'll figure out something else to do. As for the politics of it I've said elsewhere (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1963934&postcount=72)I don't really care about short term specific political gains on the right wing or left. I just want the message of liberty to get out mostly to those who are already sympathetic to it. If that means talking about it to conspiracy theorists, or even racists, bigots, anti-semites fine. But it shouldn't be the other way around...they shouldn't get a forum on things like "Freedom Watch" to preach about their subculture.

Interesting thought, it's a shame you wrapped it in such a smear piece.

[tonesforjonesbones]

YAYYYYYY to Fox for having Alex Jones on..YAY! Now he will get more credibility...because AJ is right you know? TOnes

[dannno]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and was thinking about making a separate thread about this. Maybe I will and it'll be entitled the roles of conspiracies and liberty in the Ron Paul political movement.



Given the evidence on Ron Paul I'm almost willing to grant that he is one of your fellow conspiracy theorists. I think Pat Buchanan is too. I hope he's just pandering to you and have some evidence that might be the case but he could just be pandering to us libertarians. Anyway if true it saddens me on a personal level because now it's possible they don't care for liberty for liberty's sake....they're just alarmed that some immediate threat coming from CFR/NWO/Trilateral Commission/Jews, etc

To Ron Paul and other's credit they write great pieces and have distinguished careers that stand on their own...it's just unfortunate that the motivation seems like they're rationalizing their previous prejudices.

For example it's not support for Austrian economics and non-intervention for their own sake...but it's because if we don't have a fed or believe in non-intervention THE ILLUMINATI/JEWS WILL RULE US :eek: Politically we wind up with similar policies and I don't even mind having to share the same political space with supporters but that the leaders themselves think like that is just troubling for me personally.



As I wrote previously I don't care what David Frum thinks.... I care what the average American left or right will think once they find this stuff out and Frum has the forum and motivation to play this up as much as possible. The average person will chalk up Ron Paul's positions to his belief in conspiracy theories and not to a genuine belief that liberty is important and necessary.

To put it another way: If the average American doesn't believe the Illuminati/Jews are coming to get them then they'll probably be more worried about retaining middle class entitlements and big government which might not adversely affect them for awhile down the road. I really do wonder sometimes what political beliefs you guys (and Ron Paul) would have if you found out there WASN'T an NWO/CFR/Trilateral/Jew conspiracy.

The main thing that bothers me though is that this whole thing maybe becoming about expressing a subculture. It's like vegans/snooty socialites/feminists supporting Democrats or the End-of-Days-rapturists/Rednecks/greedy businessmen supporting the Republicans not b/c of the policies but b/c "they're good Christians/Libertines just like me" or "eew I don't want to see those hicks/feminazis in power". Instead of the main subcultures we've got a conspiracy/survivalist/domininist subculture that wants to express itself just for the sake of expressing itself.

I'm worried that it's not about spreading liberty but about "rattling the sheeple" into recognizing your subculture. Kind of like what some homosexuals do with their "Gay Pride" parades. And once you guys saw Alex Jones on Fox your reaction was "We've made it to the mainstream...Yay" or "Eat that mainstream sheeple!!" not whether it was a good thing for the liberty movement itself.

I relistened to Alex Jones (and the Judge) on Freedom Watch and yes he cites MSM sources but he still was pushing the conspiracies. You can believe that Gordon Brown is a power hungry politician without believing he's part of the Illuminati or their pawn. And I'm guessing he was being restrained as I don't listen to his regular shows.

I'm just saying if this is just about a subculture with some political activism sprinkled in I'd probably be more comfortable with the Reason/Cato crowd or picking up a real hobby. I'm hoping you guys are getting played by Ron Paul, the Judge etc but I'm thinking it's more that the principled libertarian/conservatives are. So, YAY YOU WIN Ron Paul believes in conspiracies JUST LIKE YOU.

To wrap it up, I'm still on board but if it becomes about getting the "Truth" out instead of the message of liberty...I'll figure out something else to do. As for the politics of it I've said elsewhere (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1963934&postcount=72)I don't really care about short term specific political gains on the right wing or left. I just want the message of liberty to get out mostly to those who are already sympathetic to it. If that means talking about it to conspiracy theorists, or even racists, bigots, anti-semites fine. But it shouldn't be the other way around...they shouldn't get a forum on things like "Freedom Watch" to preach about their subculture.


No.


Nope.

No.

No, and no.



No, no, no.


No.


nope.


Sorry, nope.




Ya, that post didn't make any sense. OK buddy, look, Ron Paul and the Judge have a lot more access to the system than you do. Ron Paul doesn't think there is a "Jew" conspiracy, but he knows there is a conspiracy within our financial system, our soveirgnty and with regards to wars. Are Jewish people involved? Yes. Are Christians involved? Yes. Are Muslims and atheists involved? Yes. So for you to come here and tell us that Ron Paul believes in a "Jew" conspiracy is ridiculous and insulting.

You need to do more research, there is plenty of physical, tangible evidence that we are right and you are wrong.

[tonesforjonesbones]

chieftan are you a jew? you brought up the jew issue , how many times in your above post? Alex jones has never said anything about jews ...not that I have heard and he is married to a jewish woman. I consider it the bolshevik communists that came from Russia about 100 years ago who hide behind the jewish label...but are not religious. They failed to leave their communism at the border ...and the British Fabians. Tones ( i think the cato institute has been infiltrated with the same...they didn't like or support ron paul..so i think you should be on the watch for the controlled opposition in the cato institute)

[jmdrake]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and was thinking about making a separate thread about this. Maybe I will and it'll be entitled the roles of conspiracies and liberty in the Ron Paul political movement.

Given the evidence on Ron Paul I'm almost willing to grant that he is one of your fellow conspiracy theorists. I think Pat Buchanan is too. I hope he's just pandering to you and have some evidence that might be the case but he could just be pandering to us libertarians. Anyway if true it saddens me on a personal level because now it's possible they don't care for liberty for liberty's sake....they're just alarmed that some immediate threat coming from CFR/NWO/Trilateral Commission/Jews, etc


Oh you're probably a conspiracy theorist too. You're just not bright enough to realize it. ;) A conspiracy is simply a crime committed by more than one person. So if you believe a group of Arabs hijacked airplanes and crashed them into buildings that, by definition, is a conspiracy theory. Maybe it's more accepted but that doesn't matter.

Now it's funny (and really sad) that you lump the CFR/NWO/Trilateral Commission etc in with Jews. You can be Jewish without being a member of a "conspiracy". But not the trilateral commission. David Rockefeller who cofounded the trilateral commission admitted in his own autobiography that he is part of a global conspiracy! :rolleyes: Here's the quote:

“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."



To Ron Paul and other's credit they write great pieces and have distinguished careers that stand on their own...it's just unfortunate that the motivation seems like they're rationalizing their previous prejudices.


Not wanting people like David Rockefeller to succeed in their stated purpose of undermining the United States is "prejudice"? What kind of idiot are you? That's like saying people who are concerned by statements made by radical Islamists are "prejudice". Or it's like saying someone is prejudice because they take a potential school shooter at his word. It's not "prejudice" to think that people who say they want to replace our currency with the "Amero" and merge our nation into a "European Union" style "superstate" really want to do what they said. It's not "prejudice" to work to stop that. It's abject stupidity to pretend such things don't exist when this is all happening right before your face. Here is Vicente Fox claiming that he was CONSPIRING with Bush to get rid of the dollar and merge America into a superstate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYGrn0hZlCQ

Telling the truth is not "prejudice". Prejudice is PRE judging. Those who look at this and come to the OBVIOUS conclusion that there is a conspiracy are POST judging!




For example it's not support for Austrian economics and non-intervention for their own sake...but it's because if we don't have a fed or believe in non-intervention THE ILLUMINATI/JEWS WILL RULE US :eek:


Why do you have to throw the "Jews" into everything? Are you an antisemitic? Or are you just so intellectually bankrupt that you can't argue your point without accusing someone else of antisemitism?

Here's another question. Since Austrian economics is obviously the best way to go (at least you feel that way) why is it the exception and not the rule? How did we get where we are? Most people would look at you and say "Austrian what?" Oh I know. The world just hasn't been "enlightened yet". The free market of ideas will allow Austrian economics to bubble to the top. We don't even have to do anything. :rolleyes: The federal reserve isn't part of an actual attempt by anybody to control anything right? It's just how things "shaped out". :rolleyes:



Politically we wind up with similar policies and I don't even mind having to share the same political space with supporters but that the leaders themselves think like that is just troubling for me personally.


Fine. Go join a different movement. Seriously. Join the "everything is hunky dory we don't have to worry because Austrian economics will naturally bubble to the top" movement. There's got to be a movement out there like that somewhere.



As I wrote previously I don't care what David Frum thinks.... I care what the average American left or right will think once they find this stuff out and Frum has the forum and motivation to play this up as much as possible. The average person will chalk up Ron Paul's positions to his belief in conspiracy theories and not to a genuine belief that liberty is important and necessary.


I didn't say you cared what David Frum thinks. I said you cared what liberals think. Last year everybody was OVERLY concerned about what "conservatives" think.

And the reason your logic FAILS is because you impose your own faulty logic on others. You assume that the average American will see the "beauty" of Austrian economics without seeing the sinister reality of the current system. Obama, Bush and McCain didn't all agree on the same obviously stupid "bailout" policy by coincidence. Somebody somewhere thought this through. And there were given the same sheet of music either directly or indirectly. The "average American" you wish to reach so badly will look at the Austrian economic minority and say "well all of these other experts say we need this so they can't all be wrong." The only sane counter is that at least some of the experts are "wrong" on purpose. There is a reason that even Glen Beck is now saying there are people in Washington that don't have America's best interest in mind. And this is very much about liberty. Liberty isn't being threatened by "coincidence" or "mistake". Liberty is being threatened deliberately.



To put it another way: If the average American doesn't believe the Illuminati/Jews are coming to get them then they'll probably be more worried about retaining middle class entitlements and big government which might not adversely affect them for awhile down the road. I really do wonder sometimes what political beliefs you guys (and Ron Paul) would have if you found out there WASN'T an NWO/CFR/Trilateral/Jew conspiracy.


Again you throw "Jew" into everything. You must really be obsessed by it.

Here's the bottom line. Clearly the political elite from BOTH parties have agreed on certain things:

1) Globalism is "good"
2) Bank bailouts are "necessary"
3) We must let the federal reserve control the economy
4) We must sacrifice "freedom for security"

I could go on. Those points by themselves are at least clear evidence of collusion. But there's more. The "think tanks" (CFR, trilatteral commission, etc) have been openly calling for a lot of what's happening for years. The put out position papers and both political parties sing the same tunes. Yet you're somehow angry at those of us who actually point out the obvious and you conflate pointing out the obvious with hatred of "Jews". That's just asinine.

<rambling crap snipped>


To wrap it up, I'm still on board but if it becomes about getting the "Truth" out instead of the message of liberty...I'll figure out something else to do.


Oh please go find something else to do. Then when the Amero is adopted or the Obama administration feels comfortable announcing "tax by mile" (they announced it earlier but retracted it) or the "carbon tax" is fully implemented or anything else happens that "conspiracy theorists" have been predicting for years I'll be interested in hearing from you again.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Chieftain1776]

I guess I'll go in order.


YAYYYYYY to Fox for having Alex Jones on..YAY! Now he will get more credibility...because AJ is right you know? TOnes

Ugh... thats the thing I don't care about the effect on AJ's credibility or disproving his myriad of conspiracies. As I've said earlier I am concerned about the impact of guys like him on the credibility of the liberty movement. That's it.


Ya, that post didn't make any sense

I'm sorry it was over your head. Other posters got it.


chieftan are you a jew? you brought up the jew issue , how many times in your above post?

1) None of your business, but nope. And it's sad that you feel the need to ask that question.
2) I bring it up because it's a popular conspiracy theory on RP Forums and quite the topic on these boards: "Six Jewish Companies Own 96% of the World’s Media" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=184455&highlight=jews) especially by tones I now see:

"They don't assimilate, they are clannish and they take over. Did Jesus run them out of the temple for Usuary? yep. tones (psss...they are still doing usuary)" * (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1939870&postcount=16)

"Well...I know they celebrated Christmas around the time of Charles Dickens...A Christmas Carol...so it's been around for awhile. The jewish merchants found a way to cash in big time on all these religious Christian holidays. tones" * (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1932968&postcount=36)

oh and this gem "This is what causes things like gas and ovens..the jews bring this shit on themselves. tones" * (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1898650&postcount=14).

And that was only after a few minutes of looking...sad and disgusting.


...that, by definition, is a conspiracy theory.

Yes I know the definition of the word "conspiracy". I think everyone knows what I'm referring to when I say conspiracy theorist.


Now it's funny (and really sad) that you lump the CFR/NWO/Trilateral Commission etc in with Jews

I just lumped in the conspiracies I've read about on RPF I guess I could have added reptilians but it's not as popular and apparently that pisses some CT's off because "that would just be ridiculous"

As to your point about the merits of the various conspiracies. Again, I'M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THEM...just like I'm not here to debate God or aliens or even something like Austrian Economics. I was just concerned that Alex Jones appearance on Fox and the Judge's public embrace of him and that its a bad thing for the liberty movement. I just don't want the liberty movement to be co-opted by some subculture for the sake of promoting that subculture. I'm disappointed that it took the role that it did on "Freedom Watch".

Let me put it to you this way: If I sent the Freedom Watch link right now to David Frum do you think that would be a good thing for the liberty movement or a bad thing?

[PatriotOne]

That was a great interview.

I wouldn't worry so much about "credibilitity". Both of AJ's websites are kicking Rush Limbaughs ass right now ;):

http://www.alexa.com/

Is it any wonder why Limbaugh has turned into a RP supporter defendant all of a sudden :rolleyes:

[PatriotOne]

Let me put it to you this way: If I sent the Freedom Watch link right now to David Frum do you think that would be a good thing for the liberty movement or a bad thing?


Hahahahahaha....who gives a shit what Frum thinks.

[HRD53]

I don't think the Jews or the Illuminati are taking over, I just believe in the principles of personal liberty. Thats what attracted me to this movement.

What the hell is wrong with some of the people on here?? Those are some wild accusations to be throwing around, with not a lot of facts to back it up (i'm talking specifically about Ron Paul being fearful of Jews and the Illuminati). What facts are you basing this on?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Tones speaks the truth. TONES

[strapko]

to the non-fox audience:


you

=

(

http://www.ktar.com/emedia/az/3/358/35831.jpg




+



http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5446/jonestardkj8.gif



+



http://www.bubbabohacks.com/podcast/bubba.jpg

)



*


(


http://arachnerd.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/unibomber1.jpg


+


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e990blduM7U1/340x.jpg


+


http://www.jaynadavis.com/images/image020.jpg


)







...and it'll probably work
to bad it wont work because I dont watch tv lol.

[constituent]

to bad it wont work because I dont watch tv lol.

That's a good start.

:applause:

[jmdrake]

I guess I'll go in order.
Yes I know the definition of the word "conspiracy". I think everyone knows what I'm referring to when I say conspiracy theorist.


Right. The "conspiracy theories" that the mainstream media hasn't given you permission to talk about. :rolleyes:



I just lumped in the conspiracies I've read about on RPF I guess I could have added reptilians but it's not as popular and apparently that pisses some CT's off because "that would just be ridiculous"


Except A) the "Jewish" conspiracy theories have an element of racism to them and the others don't and B) the other conspiracies are admitted by the conspirators.



As to your point about the merits of the various conspiracies. Again, I'M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THEM...just like I'm not here to debate God or aliens or even something like Austrian Economics.


Right. Just lump everyone in with the antisemites. :rolleyes:



I was just concerned that Alex Jones appearance on Fox and the Judge's public embrace of him and that its a bad thing for the liberty movement.


And your lumping people like Ron Paul in with anti semites is helpful to the liberty movement how? (Because whether you realize it or not that's in effect what you did.)



Let me put it to you this way: If I sent the Freedom Watch link right now to David Frum do you think that would be a good thing for the liberty movement or a bad thing?

It wouldn't mean shit. People who support David Frum won't support Ron Paul regardless. On the other hand if you sent the Freedom Watch link to everyone on your email list some uncommitted people might look up the information Alex Jones was talking about FIND OUT THAT IT IS 100 PERCENT CONFIRMED IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA and decide to do something about their discovery. That would be EXTREMELY helpful to the liberty movement.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[jmdrake]

I don't think the Jews or the Illuminati are taking over, I just believe in the principles of personal liberty. Thats what attracted me to this movement.

What the hell is wrong with some of the people on here?? Those are some wild accusations to be throwing around, with not a lot of facts to back it up (i'm talking specifically about Ron Paul being fearful of Jews and the Illuminati). What facts are you basing this on?

Troll! Ron Paul has never attacked or been fearful of Jews. And while he hasn't mentioned the Illuminati he has talked about problems of the New World Order. BUT THAT IS ALSO ALL OVER THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA THESE DAYS! Really people like you would have called the Nazi party a "conspiracy theory" in the 1930s.

[moostraks]

Ron Paul Speech - One World Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTaekA8&eu#t=3m00s)


"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?

Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.

"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."

Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCHXLvlTTng)


"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

"They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

"You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"

Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below... :)

Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_63/2318000/2318082/2/print/2318082.pdf)

Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UydCZJeQPPQ)


"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"

Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."

too good to let lie...especially to those who think that rp is not aware of tptb existing!:D

[moostraks]

Right. The "conspiracy theories" that the mainstream media hasn't given you permission to talk about. :rolleyes:



Except A) the "Jewish" conspiracy theories have an element of racism to them and the others don't and B) the other conspiracies are admitted by the conspirators.



Right. Just lump everyone in with the antisemites. :rolleyes:



And your lumping people like Ron Paul in with anti semites is helpful to the liberty movement how? (Because whether you realize it or not that's in effect what you did.)



It wouldn't mean shit. People who support David Frum won't support Ron Paul regardless. On the other hand if you sent the Freedom Watch link to everyone on your email list some uncommitted people might look up the information Alex Jones was talking about FIND OUT THAT IT IS 100 PERCENT CONFIRMED IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA and decide to do something about their discovery. That would be EXTREMELY helpful to the liberty movement.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Thanks for fighting the good fight that some of us didn't jump in on. Just came back to this thread by a backdoor and read what this descended into. To say my jaw was on the floor is an understatement!!!

Trying to villify a group of people based upon culture such as jewish people is so nauseating. Trying to paint those who believe in a shadow government as being the one and the same as those previous aforementioned haters is just a way to divert our focus.

For those who don't believe in a shadow government, those of us who do wish that we were as insulated from the evil that exists within our society. Most come to this realization after having seen something so wrong that it opens our eyes to the perverse corruption that exists. Hope you remain unscathed, but signs point towards the greater portion of humanity realizing the vileness hard and fast in the not to distant future.