Conspiracy

[futureleft]

Anybody else tired of conspiracy? I mean...is it really worth talking about Rothschilds and Rockefellers as some pacifying notion that you know, people want to control others. I want to control others...I want no government and the right to freely associate. It seems counterproductive to "expose" others who have the same driving force that I have.

[TheConstitutionLives]

I get VERY tired of it on THIS forum. There are places other than this for that. I would hope this board would be a gathering place for people who don't want to talk about secret societies, etc, to discuss politics and issues. The fringe stuff gives us a bad name and hurts our growth but some folks don't seem to care.

[BuddyRey]

Yes, I'm definitely tired of the conspiracy to enslave us all. I wish it would go away!

Thanks for asking! :D

[pcosmar]

You can not have an honest discussion about politics while ignoring the key players.
It is the other influences that drive and direct policy that are not advertised by the media witch is also owned by those same influences.
There have always been conspiracies, in every government from the dawn of time.
You wish to ignore reality.

[futureleft]

I have a neighbor...his name is Eric. He thinks a lack of regulation caused the economic crisis. Maybe the banks need to be nationalized? He also thinks we need to have national healthcare. Oh, and the UN is the answer to all our problems. He enjoys MSNBC.

We could start a movement against him...I have his address.

[He Who Pawns]

Shouldn't there be a "Conspiracy" forum here?

[pcosmar]

Gulf of Tonkin
Conspiracy??
Theory or fact.

[pcosmar]

COINTERPRO
Conspiracy??

Theory?

Or proof that our government can not be trusted.

[pcosmar]

I get VERY tired of it on THIS forum. There are places other than this for that. I would hope this board would be a gathering place for people who don't want to talk about secret societies, etc, to discuss politics and issues. The fringe stuff gives us a bad name and hurts our growth but some folks don't seem to care.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=51014

What is Liberty Forest?
Bryan and I have discussed the continuation of this community after the election regardless of outcome.

It is named Liberty Forest, (LibertyForest.com). Named after the Liberty Tree, a famous elm tree that stood near the commons of Boston, Massachusetts Colony, in the days before the American Revolution. The tree was a rallying point for the growing resistance to the rule of England over the American colonies. In the years that followed, almost every American town had its own Liberty Tree—a living symbol of popular support for individual liberty and resistance to tyranny. We are the Liberty Forest so to speak, as the internet is one large meeting place.

We have started adding forums at the bottom of the main page. (Link) We plan on making it a portal for liberty and a continuation of this freedom loving community. RedState, Politico, Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, Real Clear Politics, etc.. are going to be dieing slow deaths with this internet movement and we plan on providing a place for their awakened visitors to go.

Let us know if you have anything in mind.
__________________

[TheConstitutionLives]

Gulf of Tonkin
Conspiracy??
Theory or fact.

- The mask you're wearing in your profile pic creeps me out. Just so ya know.


No, there are conspiracies. Happens all the time. Courts prosecute such and documents come out which validate suspicions. That's fine. But this "NWO" thing is blown way out of proportion. I'm sorry, it is. There isn't this secret cabal in a dark room plotting this, that, and the other. And every person pushing an international agenda is not secretly trying to set up some order. Alot of people simply believe in internationalism. Doesn't mean they are getting daily text messages on what step to take next from David Rockefeller.

[pcosmar]

- The mask you're wearing in your profile pic creeps me out. Just so ya know.


.
No mask.just paint.
Always did something for Fantasy Fest.

The NWO has been spoken of by many of the Movers and Shakers. Those same folks are in Key places and are in the same groups and organizations. They have published their plans.
Not really hard to see it, just hard to stop it. I don't even think we can, but maybe we can slow it.
I will resist it.

[TheConstitutionLives]

The NWO has been spoken of by many of the Movers and Shakers. Those same folks are in Key places and are in the same groups and organizations. They have published their plans.
Not really hard to see it, just hard to stop it. I don't even think we can, but maybe we can slow it.
I will resist it.

- I'm well aware. My point is that EVERYBODY is not part of it. Some here have now crossed Sanford out simply b/c he attended the conference once.

Also, the world is getting smaller and smaller with population increasing and technology increasing. So, there is a natural push towards globalization regardless if some "plan" exist or not. There are some who would like a global police state but most people pushing for a more global society don't want what some here are terrified of. Most think that we must globablize in order to stablize the world. I personally don't want anything that will cost us precious sovereignty. Hence, my being against it. So, again, the gravitation toward internationalism would be happening regardless of what a few crooked elitests are wanting.

[pcosmar]

Well if you start looking into it, there are Groups of people actively working to that end. It does not take much more than a little research to find the same folks show up a lot in various circles.
All with the same end goal.

[futureleft]

On one hand it makes me angry that people get attacked as "conspiracy theorists"...we have all seen the politico article that has spread to AOL, CBSnews, etc...why doesn't Kenneth Vogel just write an article about these connections, which should be of interest to anybody who follows politics? And I guess he wouldn't without so-called conspiracy theorists making a big noise about it and that should be some kind of boon for the broader knowledge base concerning international politics.

But on the other hand, the story is the conspiracy because that is what the noisemakers want it to be. Ron nails it in the article...it's not Bilderberg that matters, it is their horrible ideas that get implemented. It's an intellectual battle. Why legitimize these characters?

[Rael]

There's a kernel of truth here and there, but most of the conspiracy stuff is crap. Nothing more than entertainment at best and a distraction at worst. The only upside is that alot of people who are not libertarians are gullible, and apt to believe in conspiracies, so maybe some of these conspiracies whether true or not will draw more people in to the movement.

[constituent]

Nothing more than entertainment at best and a distraction at worst.

What is "entertainment" but a "distraction?"

[LibertyEagle]

There's a kernel of truth here and there, but most of the conspiracy stuff is crap. Nothing more than entertainment at best and a distraction at worst. The only upside is that alot of people who are not libertarians are gullible, and apt to believe in conspiracies, so maybe some of these conspiracies whether true or not will draw more people in to the movement.

The movement was here before you were even born. It is the libertarians who joined; not the other way around.

[ClayTrainor]

I have very little respect for the intellect of those who drop the word "conspiracy" thinking it describes some sort of radical or delusional way of thinking. I further can't stand those who try to connect anything to do with NWO to "Alien conspiracies" in order to make their opposition look like a kook. It's an anti-intellectual form of debate and discussion.

If you read your history you will realize that you are a dam fool to ignore the banks, and their thirst for global dominance. At this point in my life, after countless debates against 'debunkers', 'truthers', and just average folks, i have determined that "NWO" is a real agenda, and you have either been manipulated or deceived if you think it's "kooky". I'm sorry, but the CFR is definitely full of "Conspirators" who very clearly have the destruction of the US constitution on their agenda.

Yes, some of the 911 theories are full-blown stupid and yes there are some stupid theories in other topics that completely defy logic. These theories are not limited to "conspiracies" but conspiracies are often shrouded in secrecy, which is the source of some of these radical claims. This doesn't mean that they are completely false simply because some radical claims came out of the speculation.


Alex Jones is a bit crazy, imo and he jumps to some pretty stupid conclusions from time to time but, most 'debunkers' or anti-conspiracy people, tend to be equally anti-intellectual when it comes to debate.

[Feenix566]

Anybody else tired of conspiracy? I mean...is it really worth talking about Rothschilds and Rockefellers as some pacifying notion that you know, people want to control others. I want to control others...I want no government and the right to freely associate. It seems counterproductive to "expose" others who have the same driving force that I have.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. Unfortunately there are a few very vocal people here whose minds are made up on the issue and will never see it as anything other than a conspiracy.

[apropos]

Yes, the conspiracy stuff here gets very tedious. I guess the problem is that, when bringing up the secret society new world order stuff, to your average American it sounds very comparable to the genuine schizoid who thinks his invisible, omnipotent enemies are out to get him. How many things said here match that exact pattern?

Powerful opposition. Totally unknown to the public at large. Out to get you. A massive cover up by complicit media and government officials. I couldn't write a better conspiracy movie if I tried.

This sort of presentation will never fly with your average voters - the people we need to accomplish the ultimate goals of restoring Constitutional order to the country. How does talking about a chem trail accomplish this goal? When dealing with an esoteric subject like the Federal Reserve, you have to establish Fact A before you can begin Argument A, and then prove Argument A, B, and C before arguing for Argument D.

We just talk about Argument D and can't understand it when people don't believe us or don't care. Then we damn them as socialist or statist for calling us conspiracy nuts. This strategy isn't working.

[ClayTrainor]

For what it's worth, I agree with you. Unfortunately there are a few very vocal people here whose minds are made up on the issue and will never see it as anything other than a conspiracy.

How exactly are you using the word 'conspiracy' here?


Are you using the media-defined version? or the dictionary-defined version?

"the act of conspiring together" - websters dictionary

"a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act" - princeton university.

Don't let the media define words for you ;)

[gls]

Yes, I'm definitely tired of the conspiracy to enslave us all. I wish it would go away!


+1

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley

[Feenix566]

How exactly are you using the word 'conspiracy' here?

When I hear the word "conspiracy", it conjures up an image of a group of individuals with malicious intentions performing covert acts to further their hidden agenda, and agenda that they've previously discussed and agreed upon.

I don't think that's what is going on with the world. I think the primary driving force in the world is people with good intentions and misplaced faith in big government. Take your average CNN watcher/reporter. All they've ever heard about in their life is how great the government is. They always talk about how they expect the government to save us from this or that. And when things start going wrong, they never blame the government. All they do is look to the government for more solutions.

This isn't the product of some insidious big-government conspiracy. It's simply a product of the fact that most people have never seen things from any other point of view. They've never even heard someone explain anything from a libertarian perspective.

So you take your average reporter, and tell him to do a story on a failing health care system. Of course he's going to approach it from the angle of asking the government to fix everything, because he's never thought of it from any other point of view. He probably has the best intentions, he just hasn't been educated well enough to look at things our way.

Our goal is to change things. That can't be accomplished by silencing a few powerful individuals who are covertly pulling the puppet strings of the entire world. Our goal can only be achieved by spreading our ideas about liberty and the proper role of government. Even if you think the Rothchilds are responsible for everything, the only way they can accomplish anything is through a complicit media and populace. The vast majority of individuals carrying out the big government agenda honestly (and mistakenly) believe they're doing the right thing.

In the end, it doesn't even matter whether you think it's a conspiracy or not. The objective is still the same, and the strategy is still the same. The only way we're ever going to change the world is by spreading ideas.

[ClayTrainor]

When I hear the word "conspiracy", it conjures up an image of a group of individuals with malicious intentions performing covert acts to further their hidden agenda, and agenda that they've previously discussed and agreed upon.


I don't think that's what is going on with the world.


So you don't believe that the people at the top of any power structure, would be motivated to manipulate those beneath them for some sort of personal gain?



I think the primary driving force in the world is people with good intentions and misplaced faith in big government. Take your average CNN watcher/reporter. All they've ever heard about in their life is how great the government is. They always talk about how they expect the government to save us from this or that. And when things start going wrong, they never blame the government. All they do is look to the government for more solutions.


Yup... it's sad.



This isn't the product of some insidious big-government conspiracy.


Well, what you explained may not be however, Why did Bush lie about wmd's in iraq? Why have we been occupying Afghanistan for twice as long as ww2? Why are there over 700 bases in 130 countries? Why do world leaders consistently talk more and more about a "New World Order" as the economy worsens?

I agree, that the average citizen is unaware of what's going on in the world, which is why they see no problem begging government for help. However, just because they are uninformed and/or brainwashed doesn't prove or disprove a "conspiracy".



So you take your average reporter, and tell him to do a story on a failing health care system. Of course he's going to approach it from the angle of asking the government to fix everything, because he's never thought of it from any other point of view. He probably has the best intentions, he just hasn't been educated well enough to look at things our way.

Very obviously true, but this does not mean there can't be some sort of Agenda in order to ensure government stays in power. Maybe if the government-funded public schools would teach the history of the constitution again, we wouldnt have such ignorant reporters who have never considered not asking government for help.

You know, indoctrination through state-funded schools is something that is well-documented in history. It's not totally foolish to believe the same thing may be happening here.



Our goal is to change things. That can't be accomplished by silencing a few powerful individuals who are covertly pulling the puppet strings of the entire world. Our goal can only be achieved by spreading our ideas about liberty and the proper role of government.


Silencing the 'puppet masters' wouldn't work anyways. There is an entire power structure, and they would only be replaced.

I agree, spreading the message of liberty is the best way to combat this. We must wake up the average person, which will loosen the grip of the government on the individuals.


In the end, it doesn't even matter whether you think it's a conspiracy or not. The objective is still the same, and the strategy is still the same. The only way we're ever going to change the world is by spreading ideas.

I agree but, I hate how people say "Don't talk about this" or "you're a crazy idiot if you believe that", when the word "conspiracy" is used.

People really should adhere to the true definition of "Conspiracy", not the media-defined version!

But overall, i'm with you. It really doesn't matter too much if the "conspiracies" are true or not. The message of liberty is what matters.

[Truth Warrior]

I'm actually pretty tired of the accidental/coincidental/people don't conspire/never happens/shit just happens/etc. "theorists" here too. :p :rolleyes:

"The bailouts are an inside job!"

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

[constituent]

"I hate talk about conspiracy theories on RPF so f*n much, that I just have to start a thread about conspiracies on RPF. Yea, that'll teach 'em."

-OP

[Truth Warrior]

"I hate talk about conspiracy theories on RPF so f*n much, that I just have to start a thread about conspiracies on RPF. Yea, that'll teach 'em."

-OP I have a theory that this thread was just another inside job. ;) :D

[humanic]

Anybody else tired of conspiracy?

I'm tired of the "new world order" conspiracy existing, yes. Please read The Future Is Calling (http://freedom-force.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=issues#fic) by G. Edward Griffin (for starters) for substantiation of its existence.


I mean...is it really worth talking about Rothschilds and Rockefellers

Yes.


as some pacifying notion that you know, people want to control others.

Lots of people want to control others. It is worth talking about these individuals because they have undue influence over our economy, public policy, and ultimately our lives, and they have the will and likely the political might to further consolidate that power.


I want to control others...I want no government and the right to freely associate. It seems counterproductive to "expose" others who have the same driving force that I have.

I suspect that you are using a very broad (weird) definition of "control". These people want to rule the world. You presumably want to protect freedom for all. If so, the type of "control" you want is simply stopping people from violating the rights of others. These are very different.


No, there are conspiracies. Happens all the time. Courts prosecute such and documents come out which validate suspicions.

Correct.


That's fine. But this "NWO" thing is blown way out of proportion. I'm sorry, it is. There isn't this secret cabal in a dark room plotting this, that, and the other.

No one said they met in a dark room. I have no doubt that their meeting rooms are well lit. They often do plot, this, that, and the other in secret, or at least in "private", however. The Bilderberg Group exists and has met yearly since 1954, unbeknownst to 99.99% of people until recently. The Trilateral Commission, founded by David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski, has existed since 1973 and has dominated the executive branch (http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/the_trilateral_commission:_usurping_sovereignty_20 07080373/) since the election of Jimmy Carter. It is verifiable historical fact that The Council on Foreign Relations was a front for a small group founded by Cecil Rhodes with the intention of creating a world collectivist government; that its founder Edward House had the same intention; that members of the organization have since its inception called for the dissolution of national sovereignty, etc. Nearly half of the Board of Directors of the CFR are members of the Trilateral Commission, despite the fact that they make up only a small percentage of its overall membership.


And every person pushing an international agenda is not secretly trying to set up some order. Alot of people simply believe in internationalism.

This is correct. However, there is a relatively small and well defined group of people in the CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group, and a few other organizations that most certainly are trying to set up a consolidated power structure which they themselves have for decades called a "new world order", "new world economic order", "new international economic order", and other variations.

The evidence of this is abundant, but here are just a few statements which corroborate this fact:


"Where I differ from [then Governor Nelson Rockefeller] is in the suggestion implicit throughout his [1962 lectures at Harvard University] that… the United States must submerge its national identity and surrender substantial matters of sovereignty to a new political order. The implications in Governor Rockefeller’s presentation have become concrete proposals advanced by David Rockefeller’s newest international cabal, the Trilateral Commission. Whereas the Council on Foreign Relations is distinctly national in membership, the Trilateral Commission is international… It is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. Zbigniew Brzezinski and David Rockefeller screened and selected every individual who was invited to participate in shaping and administering the proposed new world order.” Barry Goldwater, With No Apologies (1979), pg 293

“What the Trilaterals truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the national-states involved… As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future.” Barry Goldwater, With No Apologies (1979), pg 299

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it" David Rockefeller, in his book Memoirs, pg. 405


Doesn't mean they are getting daily text messages on what step to take next from David Rockefeller.

True. Fortunately few people, if any, believe that.

[Truth Warrior]

The Power Elite and the Nazi Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis150.htm), Part 2, 3-9-09
The Power Elite and the Nazi Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis149.htm), Part 1, 2-23-09
The Rockefeller Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis148.htm), Part 5, 2-9-09
The Rockefeller Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis147.htm), Part 4, 1-26-09
The Rockefeller Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis146.htm), Part 3, 1-12-09
If War Had Not Come in Fierce and Exaggerated Form (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis145.htm) 12-29-08
The Rockefeller Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis144.htm), Part 2, 12-15-08
The Rockefeller Plan (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis143.htm), Part 1, 12-1-08
Acts 10:34 and Cognitive Dissonance (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis142.htm) 11-17-08
Eugenics (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis141.htm) 11-3-08
The People's Republic of America (http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis140.htm) 10-20-08

[tremendoustie]

But overall, i'm with you. It really doesn't matter too much if the "conspiracies" are true or not. The message of liberty is what matters.

This.

So, given that it doesn't affect what we're trying to do anyway -- promote liberty, and given that a large number of people here don't believe them, and given that it's most often a roadblock for those who would be otherwise interested in the message ... why do we need to keep talking about them?

I'm saying this honestly. If I believed in 9/11 truth, the bilderbergers, etc, I'd still not talk about it here. Because, it doesn't accomplish anything, and it only serves to drive people away.

That's my view, but I know it won't stop anyone from doing it ... maybe we can have a conspiracy sub forum so at least it's not on the main forums.

[dannno]

Learn about the banks and maybe one day you will "get it". The banking scam is a conspiracy, always has been. The bankers have been pushing for wars and welfare to get rich off of the loans that are created in the name of welfare and warfare, and the bankers are the ones pushing for the NWO shit. If you don't see it, you haven't looked. I'm sorry, but most people here just think you are foolish and naive.

Some people got really rich of the banking scheme, people you've never heard of. David Rockefeller is like the public figure version of the bankers, most of them are so ridiculously wealthy and out of the public sphere that people have a tough time comprehending what is actually happening.

[Truth Warrior]

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." -- Lord Acton

[Feenix566]

Learn about the banks and maybe one day you will "get it". The banking scam is a conspiracy, always has been. The bankers have been pushing for wars and welfare to get rich off of the loans that are created in the name of welfare and warfare, and the bankers are the ones pushing for the NWO shit. If you don't see it, you haven't looked. I'm sorry, but most people here just think you are foolish and naive.

Some people got really rich of the banking scheme, people you've never heard of. David Rockefeller is like the public figure version of the bankers, most of them are so ridiculously wealthy and out of the public sphere that people have a tough time comprehending what is actually happening.

Suppose you're talking to someone who's never heard any of this. Which of the following two statements do you think is more likely to receive a positive response:

A. The bankers are part of the New World Order. They've been secretly controlling world politics for a century, and they're making themselves super-rich in the process.

B. The banking system is unfair, because there is no oversight of the Federal Reserve. They're devaluing the dollar, and making your savings worth less.

[Truth Warrior]

No oversight??? How many times has the Federal Reserve Act(s) been amended over the last 96 years? :rolleyes:

Are you talking about "marketing" or REALITY?

[GBurr]

Personally I believe that we are moving towards one world government. I believe that the bankers have way to much control. I believe that the bankers at the FED are trying to influence the government and make a massive profit in the process.

However, I don't believe that the Trilateral Council or the FRC or the Bilderberg group are so powerful that they are pulling all the strings. Like Ron Paul I believe that the 9/11 Commision Report has flaws. I don't believe that members of the elite secretly trucked thousands of pounds of explosives into the Towers and Building 7, and blew a hole in the pentagon with a missile.

Yes, those in positions of power are doing everything they can to gain more power and money.

But, I find it laughable that a secret group of elite are in some dark castle telling guys like Obama what to do. Obama is just so stupid that he actually thinks what he's doing is good.

Like everyone else in power the bankers,, Bilderberg group, and the Trilateral Council are all trying to play everyone else so that they gain more power. They are all way to selfish to all be working together. Everyone in power has an agenda, but all of their agendas are not the same.

[Elwar]

I tend to be more on the side of "government doesn't work" as a reason to oppose big government.

As opposed to "a central group of people have things working so good that nobody can catch them".

[ClayTrainor]

Suppose you're talking to someone who's never heard any of this. Which of the following two statements do you think is more likely to receive a positive response:

A. The bankers are part of the New World Order. They've been secretly controlling world politics for a century, and they're making themselves super-rich in the process.

B. The banking system is unfair, because there is no oversight of the Federal Reserve. They're devaluing the dollar, and making your savings worth less.



Obviously B, which is totally wrong as you well know ;)


What is your point here? Unless they research the banking system, they are going to buy into the liberal argument?

[Truth Warrior]

I tend to be more on the side of "government doesn't work" as a reason to oppose big government.

As opposed to "a central group of people have things working so good that nobody can catch them".

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Feenix566]

Obviously B, which is totally wrong as you well know ;)


What is your point here? Unless they research the banking system, they are going to buy into the liberal argument?


My point is that as soon as you start talking about conspiracies, everyone including me will think you're nuts and stop listening. If you talk about more tangible things, people will listen.

What's the point of talking of no one listens? (please feel free to answer that, Truth Warrior)

[Dripping Rain]

I have a few ideas
either apply for a mod job and ban everyone you dont like so that you can have your own forum Utopia
or start a new forum where what you consider conspiracy is banned from any discussion

[Sandra]

I have a few ideas
either apply for a mod job and ban everyone you dont like so that you can have your own forum Utopia
or start a new forum where what you consider conspiracy is banned from any discussion

Ween't you complaining about me doing what you're doing? :rolleyes: And you're brand new here.

[ClayTrainor]

My point is that as soon as you start talking about conspiracies, everyone including me will think you're nuts and stop listening.


So you're as close-minded as the average American?



If you talk about more tangible things, people will listen.


I agree, but it's kind of hard when the FED is participating in a full-blown conspiracy against the economy.



What's the point of talking of no one listens? (please feel free to answer that, Truth Warrior)

I hear you, and agree with what you're saying to an extent... but i've managed to convert lots of people to my views, and my entire family is slowly coming around. Evidence > a nice-sounding argument. It's all about how you present the case. You have to lead them to these positions with logical discourse, not random claims.

Example 1: "The FED is ruling the world" (Obviously people will be turned off by this)

Example 2: "The FED is the reason the dollar has dropped to the price of gold significantly in the last 30 years. They are basically allowed to print as much money as they want, and no one can even investigate or audit them. When you increase the supply of something, the value of it drops. The FED is increasing our money supply constantly, therefore devaluing our wealth" (it's hard to deny basic logic)

Both of the above are examples of a conspiracy. If you simply ignore things that sound 'crazy', then you will never have a clue about what's going on unless someone else explains them to you.

[tremendoustie]

I tend to be more on the side of "government doesn't work" as a reason to oppose big government.

As opposed to "a central group of people have things working so good that nobody can catch them".

+1

All the evidence indicates government is incompetant. Way too incompetant to pull of some of the things people here give them credit for. They're bumbling, dishonest, and corrupt fools, not evil masterminds.

[ClayTrainor]

+1

All the evidence indicates government is incompetant. Way too incompetant to pull of some of the things people here give them credit for. They're bumbling, dishonest, and corrupt fools, not evil masterminds.

So that's why we can't investigate the FED? They're not criminals, they're just incompetent by printing money? :rolleyes:

I think it's very obvious that the FED and Political officials are Conspiring against the free-market, if you actually adhere to the REAL definition of "Conspiracy" not the version that the Media has defined for you!

[dannno]

Suppose you're talking to someone who's never heard any of this. Which of the following two statements do you think is more likely to receive a positive response:

A. The bankers are part of the New World Order. They've been secretly controlling world politics for a century, and they're making themselves super-rich in the process.

B. The banking system is unfair, because there is no oversight of the Federal Reserve. They're devaluing the dollar, and making your savings worth less.

I tell them about B first, then if they understand what I am saying they will wonder why such benevolent people in government are allowing that to happen. They will ask themselves why I am so much smarter than politicians and the media? Shouldn't they be looking out for our best interests?

That's when I tell them about A, and I tie it in with special interests and corporatism. If you don't tell people about A, then they won't get it unless they already subscribe to libertarian philosophy.

You are acting like you can only convince people one way or the other. You don't understand that a full understanding requires a full knowledge of A and B.

[dannno]

But, I find it laughable that a secret group of elite are in some dark castle telling guys like Obama what to do. Obama is just so stupid that he actually thinks what he's doing is good.

Uhhh, do you know who is in Obama's cabinet by any chance?!?! C'mon man...





Like everyone else in power the bankers,, Bilderberg group, and the Trilateral Council are all trying to play everyone else so that they gain more power. They are all way to selfish to all be working together. Everyone in power has an agenda, but all of their agendas are not the same.

OK, find out who is behind the Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Council and CFR and you will begin to see that the agenda is much more similar ;)

[tremendoustie]

So that's why we can't investigate the FED? They're not criminals, they're just incompetent by printing money (counterfeit)? :rolleyes:

I think it's very obvious that the FED and Political officials are Conspiring against the free-market, if you actually adhere to the REAL definition of "Conspiracy" not the version that the Media has defined for you!

No no, they're definitely criminals.

What you said here:



Example 2: "The FED is the reason the dollar has dropped to the price of gold significantly in the last 30 years. They are basically allowed to print as much money as they want, and no one can even investigate or audit them. When you increase the supply of something, the value of it drops. The FED is increasing our money supply constantly, therefore devaluing our wealth"


Is exactly right.

A secret plan to take over the world? I don't know, or really care. They're ripping us off.

I think the idea of us being ripped off is a lot more factually based, and a lot more likely to get someone to listen, than conjecturing about a secret plan for a NWO.

I guess if you want to call it a conspiracy you can, although I wouldn't, especially since people tend to stop listening at that point.

I'd call it corruption and corpratism.

[Xenophage]

Anybody else tired of conspiracy? I mean...is it really worth talking about Rothschilds and Rockefellers as some pacifying notion that you know, people want to control others. I want to control others...I want no government and the right to freely associate. It seems counterproductive to "expose" others who have the same driving force that I have.

You're confusing "no control" and "control." You want freedom from control, and you're willing to fight violently for it. I don't want to control anybody, and most of all I don't want anyone to control me.

Anyway... I'm tired of conspiracy theories because they're mostly bullshit based on assumptions and inferences, and they completely miss the real danger to our liberty, which is out in the open and plain for all to see. There is nothing hidden or secretive about the evil we face. Nobody even makes an effort to conceal it. Its staring you down in the face every morning on the news whenever the talking heads extol the virtues of collectivism and authoritarianism. The real conspiracy is just called "government." The real behind-the-scenes men are just called "politicians."

The only weapon that we can use or that can be used against us is philosophy.

[Truth Warrior]

A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER
by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D.
http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm (http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm)

[tremendoustie]

I tell them about B first, then if they understand what I am saying they will wonder why such benevolent people in government are allowing that to happen. They will ask themselves why I am so much smarter than politicians and the media? Shouldn't they be looking out for our best interests?

That's when I tell them about A, and I tie it in with special interests and corporatism. If you don't tell people about A, then they won't get it unless they already subscribe to libertarian philosophy.

You are acting like you can only convince people one way or the other. You don't understand that a full understanding requires a full knowledge of A and B.

People can be corrupt and greedy without being part of a secret plan to take over the world. Someone you're talking to is probably going to be a lot more quick to accept the theory of greedy corrupt people, of whom we know many, than a secret plan to take over the world.

You just risk discrediting yourself, and therefore our message, for no good reason.

It's like a pickpocket is in the process of taking the wallet out of our pocket, and we've got to stand around theorizing about the guy's 20 year plan to start a mafia group and take over the city. Let's get everyone to notice and stop the pickpocket. If we can do that, he sure as heck won't be taking over the city.

A lot more people will disagree with these NWO conspiracies than will disagree that we're being robbed. We need all these people to stop the robbery now, and so that should be our message -- you're getting robbed! Getting everyone to stop the robbery is the best way to stop the NWO, if it exists, anyway. But if we insist on promoting NWO conspiracy theories, they're more likely to be able to discredit us, and more likely to get away with the theft.

[Truth Warrior]

People can be corrupt and greedy without being part of a secret plan to take over the world. Someone you're talking to is probably going to be a lot more quick to accept the theory of greedy corrupt people, of whom we know many, than a secret plan to take over the world.

You just risk discrediting yourself, and therefore our message, for no good reason. Why can't there be BOTH? Those who are AND those who are not. C'mon!!! :rolleyes:

[Xenophage]

A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER
by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D.
http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm (http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm)


If you want to defeat the NWO, you don't need to expose any conspiracies. You need to win the philosophic argument. You need to show that the NWO is bad for the human race, and bad for individuals. If you're focused on exposing conspiracies, you're wasting your time and letting them win.

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism are the prime evils.

[tremendoustie]

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

This! If we are free, there will be none of these conspiracies anyway. Let's just fight for freedom, and the rest will take care of itself. As I say, you don't have to determine the thief's 20 year plan before you get him out of your kitchen.

[Truth Warrior]

If you want to defeat the NWO, you don't need to expose any conspiracies. You need to win the philosophic argument. You need to show that the NWO is bad for the human race, and bad for individuals. If you're focused on exposing conspiracies, you're wasting your time and letting them win.

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism are the prime evils. Church AND State are my chosen two. You can handle the rest of them. Or not. :rolleyes:

[amonasro]

Frankly, it's easy to label RP supporters as conspiracy loons because we get a lot of our news from secondary and sometimes unreliable sources. I don't necessarily, but it gets posted here and subsequently associated with us. I think, in general, we keep the conspiracy discussion to a dull roar thanks to Hot Topics and skeptical, articulate forum members. During the election cycle there was much less conspiracy talk, I have to admit. Now I think we are just bored :)

We must be aware of the nuts who live in a conspiracy bubble, judge every bit of news through a conspiratorial lens, and think they are better qualified to report what happens in the world when, in reality, they have very little interaction with it. Internet communities seem to form up around certain conspiracies and they feed off each other, it's kind of a vicious cycle.

We must be ultra skeptical about any conspiracy-related discussion, here or anywhere else.

[amonasro]

Just to clarity, I don't think NWO is a false idea, I just think people associate it with a Hollywood-style plot to overtake the world. It does sound pretty "Hollywood" when you think about it, I can understand peoples' hesitation with swallowing the whole pill at once.

Personally I see it as a bunch of greedy, power hungry politicians, bankers and world leaders. It's not necessarily a plot per se, it's just a consolidation of power manifested by humans' tendency to be self destructive to further their own selfish ends.

[Xenophage]

Church AND State are my chosen two. You can handle the rest of them. Or not. :rolleyes:

I think "Church and State" mostly sums up Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism. :rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

I think "Church and State" mostly sums up Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism. :rolleyes: There ya go. ;) :D

[ClayTrainor]

No no, they're definitely criminals.

What you said here:



Is exactly right.

A secret plan to take over the world? I don't know, or really care. They're ripping us off.



Good point, that's all that really matters and i agree.



I think the idea of us being ripped off is a lot more factually based, and a lot more likely to get someone to listen, than conjecturing about a secret plan for a NWO.


Agreed, but i don't think it's "ridiculous" to discuss the motives behind some of these actions. I'd hate to see 'conspirators' get away with some of the worst crimes against humanity, if there is any truth to the NWO, and i personally believe there is.

[futureleft]

Agreed, but i don't think it's "ridiculous" to discuss the motives behind some of these actions.

No, but it is ridiculous.

[ClayTrainor]

No, but it is ridiculous.

What? That the FED is conspiring against the free-market?


What exactly is so ridiculous about that "conspiracy"?

[futureleft]

What? That the FED is conspiring against the free-market?


What exactly is so ridiculous about that "conspiracy"?

Do you realize that most people hate the free market and don't care about the Fed?

[ClayTrainor]

Do you realize that most people hate the free market and don't care about the Fed?

Well, there are lots of those people but is it really "most"? I'm amazed at how many liberals defend the FED, and even plenty of 'conservatives'.

How about Bush lying about WMD's in Iraq, yet we're still there, occupying a sovereign land. Is that not some sort of "Conspiracy"?

Why do these wars not end, even though it's clear they are based on lies to most people. It must involve some sort of "conspiracy" man... i don't think it's all just a bunch of irresponsibility, although i'm sure that's a big factor.

However i agree that approaching people on this topic should be taken with care. I tend to stick to the constitutional arguments, but i think its' anti-intellectual to denounce anything with the word "conspiracy" attached to it.

[tremendoustie]

... i think its' anti-intellectual to denounce anything with the word "conspiracy" attached to it.

I agree, an intellectually honest person should use the dictionary definition of conspiracy, and not use it as a blugeoning tool, or a tool of ridicule.

The problem is, most people buy into the "paranoid and crazy" definition of conspiracy. That's why I think it's a bad idea to use this word. It doesn't actually have the dictionary meaning any more.

Same thing with anarchist. People piture bomb wielding thugs.
So, no matter what you believe, I would not use that word. It doesn't have the simple "no coercive government" defintion any more.

The purpose of speaking is to communicate, so I think we should pick words which do so most effectively.

[Spook]

Greed in itself is the root of the 'conspiracy'. Empires have always existed to take over the world, this is nothing new in history as far as I'm concerned. Lets face it, everyone that attends a government school is brainwashed and it is no doubt difficult to shake off a lie you've been spoon fed since birth. The battle is removing the ignorance and we see there is no 'conspiracy' but an open plot to reduce mankind to serfdom.

Conspiracy? Not to me. It's just history repeating itself...It's all hidden in plain sight but the masses have been blinded with ignorance. Educate the people and they will apply the remedy.

It all stems from 'the city' and an old foe that we've battling since 1776...

[pcosmar]

Do you realize that most people hate the free market and don't care about the Fed?

Do you realize that all those people that hate the free market have never seen one. :confused:
Their opinion means what exactly?

Fact is Most people are ignorant slobs that will sell themselves into slavery for a few Magic Beans.

[revolutionary8]

I'm actually pretty tired of the accidental/coincidental/people don't conspire/never happens/shit just happens/etc. "theorists" here too.

"The bailouts are an inside job!"

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt:D

I call 'em Coincidence Theorists. They are infuriating ;)

Look, even left gatekeeper Noam Chompsky commented on the Tri-Lateral Commission and it's power as being a "coincidence"
in The Carter Administration: Myth and Reality
Noam Chomsky
Excerpted from Radical Priorities, 1981
.......
Perhaps the most striking feature of the new Administration is the role played in it by the Trilateral Commission. The mass media had little to say about this matter during the Presidential campaign -- in fact, the connection of the Carter group to the Commission was recently selected as "the best censored news story of 1976" -- and it has not received the attention that it might have since the Administration took office. All of the top positions in the government -- the office of President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Defense and Treasury -- are held by members of the Trilateral Commission, and the National Security Advisor was its director. Many lesser officials also came from this group. It is rare for such an easily identified private group to play such a prominent role in an American Administration.
....
The Commission's report is concerned with the "governability of the democracies." Its American author, Samuel Huntington, was former chairman of the Department of Government at Harvard, and a government adviser. He is well-known for his ideas on how to destroy the rural revolution in Vietnam. He wrote in Foreign Affairs (1968) that "In an absent-minded way the United States in Vietnam may well have stumbled upon the answer to 'wars of national liberation.'" The answer is "forced-draft urbanization and modernization." Explaining this concept, he observes that if direct application of military force in the countryside "takes place on such a massive scale as to produce a massive migration from countryside to city"
.....
Intellectuals come in two varieties, according to the trilateral analysis. The "technocratic and policy-oriented intellectuals" are to be admired for their unquestioning obedience to power and their services in social management, while the "value-oriented intellectuals" must be despised and feared for the serious challenge they pose to democratic government, by "unmasking and delegitimatization of established institutions."
.....
The crucial task is "to restore the prestige and authority of central government institutions, and to grapple with the immediate economic challenges." The demands on government must be reduced and we must "restore a more equitable relationship between government authority and popular control." The press must be reined. If the media do not enforce "standards of professionalism," then "the alternative could well be regulation by the government"
http://www.chomsky.info/books/priorities01.htm

[Truth Warrior]

I call 'em Coincidence Theorists. They are infuriating ;)

Look, even left gatekeeper Noam Chompsky commented on the Tri-Lateral Commission and it's power as being a "coincidence"
in The Carter Administration: Myth and Reality
Noam Chomsky
Excerpted from Radical Priorities, 1981
.......
Perhaps the most striking feature of the new Administration is the role played in it by the Trilateral Commission. The mass media had little to say about this matter during the Presidential campaign -- in fact, the connection of the Carter group to the Commission was recently selected as "the best censored news story of 1976" -- and it has not received the attention that it might have since the Administration took office. All of the top positions in the government -- the office of President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Defense and Treasury -- are held by members of the Trilateral Commission, and the National Security Advisor was its director. Many lesser officials also came from this group. It is rare for such an easily identified private group to play such a prominent role in an American Administration.
....
The Commission's report is concerned with the "governability of the democracies." Its American author, Samuel Huntington, was former chairman of the Department of Government at Harvard, and a government adviser. He is well-known for his ideas on how to destroy the rural revolution in Vietnam. He wrote in Foreign Affairs (1968) that "In an absent-minded way the United States in Vietnam may well have stumbled upon the answer to 'wars of national liberation.'" The answer is "forced-draft urbanization and modernization." Explaining this concept, he observes that if direct application of military force in the countryside "takes place on such a massive scale as to produce a massive migration from countryside to city"
.....
Intellectuals come in two varieties, according to the trilateral analysis. The "technocratic and policy-oriented intellectuals" are to be admired for their unquestioning obedience to power and their services in social management, while the "value-oriented intellectuals" must be despised and feared for the serious challenge they pose to democratic government, by "unmasking and delegitimatization of established institutions."
.....
The crucial task is "to restore the prestige and authority of central government institutions, and to grapple with the immediate economic challenges." The demands on government must be reduced and we must "restore a more equitable relationship between government authority and popular control." The press must be reined. If the media do not enforce "standards of professionalism," then "the alternative could well be regulation by the government"
http://www.chomsky.info/books/priorities01.htm

Thanks! :)

"The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are." -- H.L. Mencken

[Invalid]

TW

What do you think of Justin Raimondo? Do you think he'd make a good presidential nominee?

[constituent]

Ween't you complaining about me doing what you're doing? :rolleyes: And you're brand new here.

yea, but he's reached the lucky posting number (420), so cut the guy some slack....

at least until he posts again. ;) :)

[constituent]

The only weapon that we can use or that can be used against us is philosophy.

I almost agree so i thought this deserved quoting.

[constituent]

Internet communities seem to form up around certain conspiracies and they feed off each other, it's kind of a vicious cycle.

We must be ultra skeptical about any conspiracy-related discussion, here or anywhere else.

qft

[Truth Warrior]

TW

What do you think of Justin Raimondo? Do you think he'd make a good presidential nominee?

I like Justin. I don't want ANY "presidential nominees". :p The least of evils is still just bloody frickin' evil.<IMHO>

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

"Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" -- Ron Paul

[Invalid]

Why would he be an evil so long as he doesn't expand the government in anyway?

You can still support secessionist movements at the local level. Why not try to get someone in who will try to stop the expansion of the government though and be receptive to secessionist movements?

Is there anything WRONG, likely glaringly wrong, with Raimondo? Every time I find a politicians I end up hating him.

[Truth Warrior]

Why would he be an evil so long as he doesn't expand the government in anyway?

You can still support secessionist movements at the local level. Why not try to get someone in who will try to stop the expansion of the government though and be receptive to secessionist movements?

Is there anything WRONG, likely glaringly wrong, with Raimondo? Every time I find a politicians I end up hating him.

When a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental — men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack or be lost... All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.' The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. -- H L Mencken, Baltimore Sun (26 July 1920)

[Invalid]

So?

What does that have to do with Raimondo being an acceptable candidate? Who cares if he can't or can win.

[Truth Warrior]

So?

So, what? Read the the last few posts again, please. ;)

What does that have to do with Raimondo being an acceptable candidate?

Nothing. :) Is Justin running for POTUS?

Who cares if he can't or can win.

Doesn't that kind of miss the whole point of running? :D

Thanks!

[TheConstitutionLives]

People can be corrupt and greedy without being part of a secret plan to take over the world. Someone you're talking to is probably going to be a lot more quick to accept the theory of greedy corrupt people, of whom we know many, than a secret plan to take over the world.

You just risk discrediting yourself, and therefore our message, for no good reason.

It's like a pickpocket is in the process of taking the wallet out of our pocket, and we've got to stand around theorizing about the guy's 20 year plan to start a mafia group and take over the city. Let's get everyone to notice and stop the pickpocket. If we can do that, he sure as heck won't be taking over the city.

A lot more people will disagree with these NWO conspiracies than will disagree that we're being robbed. We need all these people to stop the robbery now, and so that should be our message -- you're getting robbed! Getting everyone to stop the robbery is the best way to stop the NWO, if it exists, anyway. But if we insist on promoting NWO conspiracy theories, they're more likely to be able to discredit us, and more likely to get away with the theft.


DING DING DING! Give this person a cigar for using his brain. Drop the stuff most view as kooky if you want them to join the movement. It's pretty fuking simple. Talk about shit they think is nuts and we lose them. It's really simple.

[constituent]

So?

What does that have to do with Raimondo being an acceptable candidate? Who cares if he can't or can win.

hi justin

[paulitics]

OMG! Huge Conspiracy thread on Hannity forums. They are all going to associate this with Ron Paul and think we are loons.

Not!

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1373631

Give people a chance. People are learning. Almost everyone of these "hannitized" guys are
breaking out of the matrix right now, and saying stuff like "I should have listened to Ron Paul.
He is not a crackpot.

Look. Ron Paul talks about the Fed being private all the time. Glenn Beck is talking about it, millions of people are watching the Obama deception and are learning about it. The Federal Reserve is the biggest conspiracy of all time. I can't think of a bigger fraud, a bigger deception, being perpetrated than this. How foolish to not see the oportunity here.

People need their world turned upside down in order to understand why foreign interventionism is wrong, etc. When they understand that it is not in America's best interest, they understand everything. In order to understand this, they need to know how our monetary system works.


The percentage of those who accept this to be true and join us, will be much higher than if they did not learn about the federal reserve system at all.

[ihsv]

This whole discussion is ridiculous. And the fact that it can be initiated and sustained by adults is equally ridiculous. All this tinfoil hat stuff is for the birds. Seriously, guys. A conspiracy is where two or more people cooperate, sometimes even in secret, to achieve a common goal. The idea that evil people are capable of such things and -- gasp -- could be successful at it, is patently absurd.

Everyone knows that all government actions and their policies (domestic, foreign and monetary) are the result of accidents and coincidences. Do any of you seriously believe that people like Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd hide in back rooms, under tables, etc., and make shady deals and agreements to push an agenda through? Get real! If a group of politicians are successful at anything, it's purely by accident. The very idea that they "conspire" together in secret to push their pet projects is laughable.

And all this childishness about bankers and CEOs making deals behind closed doors and under the table with politicians to advance their own agenda, or increase their profits is equally absurd. Does anyone here SERIOUSLY believe that CEOs and politicians make deals in secret? Does anyone here seriously believe that they... (yes, I'll say that dreaded word) "conspire" together to achieve a mutually beneficial goal? You children need to go play outside or something.

And what's with this over-the-top concept of governments, businesses and media working together to increase their power, influence and monetary gains? I mean, for crying out loud! If they were REALLY doing these things, don't you think the media would be all over it? Don't you think congress would launch an investigation? Don't you think the business tycoons would set up systems to keep them honest and above-board?

Yes, politicians are corrupt, but there's no way they could be that corrupt. Human beings simply aren't capable of such extremes. Same thing goes for media, academia and business.

Rupert Murdoch, with his great media empire, would be all over this stuff. Exposing any supposed "global conspiracies" would increase ratings on his TV stations and boost sales for his newspapers. Since he and others don't blast it all over the news, it's not happening.

I mean, c'mon, guys. IF there were some super-dark conspiracy, don't you think everyone would know about it? Don't you think the whole would would be aware?

There are no conspiracies. There are no conspiracies. There are no conspiracies.

All is by accident. All is by coincidence.

The EU came together by pure coincidence. This silly talk at the upcoming G20 meeting of a "global super currency" is tin-foil-hat-nut-job stuff in the extreme. And I'm not buying this idea that the United Nations is some kind of super-government trying to implement its policies world wide, over all the nations of the globe. The United Nations is not trying to unite nations under a single global entity. Get real.

Oh, and Alex Jones is retarded.

[ramallamamama]

Whew!

Thanks for clearing that up for me ihsv. This thread was really beginning to freak me out.

I have total faith in Obama.

He alone will guide us through these tough times, to the promised land.

[ihsv]

Whew!

Thanks for clearing that up for me ihsv. This thread was really beginning to freak me out.

I have total faith in Obama.

He alone will guide us through these tough times, to the promised land.

:D

[revolutionary8]

This whole discussion is ridiculous. And the fact that it can be initiated and sustained by adults is equally ridiculous. All this tinfoil hat stuff is for the birds. Seriously, guys. A conspiracy is where two or more people cooperate, sometimes even in secret, to achieve a common goal. The idea that evil people are capable of such things and -- gasp -- could be successful at it, is patently absurd.

Everyone knows that all government actions and their policies (domestic, foreign and monetary) are the result of accidents and coincidences. Do any of you seriously believe that people like Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd hide in back rooms, under tables, etc., and make shady deals and agreements to push an agenda through? Get real! If a group of politicians are successful at anything, it's purely by accident. The very idea that they "conspire" together in secret to push their pet projects is laughable.

And all this childishness about bankers and CEOs making deals behind closed doors and under the table with politicians to advance their own agenda, or increase their profits is equally absurd. Does anyone here SERIOUSLY believe that CEOs and politicians make deals in secret? Does anyone here seriously believe that they... (yes, I'll say that dreaded word) "conspire" together to achieve a mutually beneficial goal? You children need to go play outside or something.

And what's with this over-the-top concept of governments, businesses and media working together to increase their power, influence and monetary gains? I mean, for crying out loud! If they were REALLY doing these things, don't you think the media would be all over it? Don't you think congress would launch an investigation? Don't you think the business tycoons would set up systems to keep them honest and above-board?

Yes, politicians are corrupt, but there's no way they could be that corrupt. Human beings simply aren't capable of such extremes. Same thing goes for media, academia and business.

Rupert Murdoch, with his great media empire, would be all over this stuff. Exposing any supposed "global conspiracies" would increase ratings on his TV stations and boost sales for his newspapers. Since he and others don't blast it all over the news, it's not happening.

I mean, c'mon, guys. IF there were some super-dark conspiracy, don't you think everyone would know about it? Don't you think the whole would would be aware?

There are no conspiracies. There are no conspiracies. There are no conspiracies.

All is by accident. All is by coincidence.

The EU came together by pure coincidence. This silly talk at the upcoming G20 meeting of a "global super currency" is tin-foil-hat-nut-job stuff in the extreme. And I'm not buying this idea that the United Nations is some kind of super-government trying to implement its policies world wide, over all the nations of the globe. The United Nations is not trying to unite nations under a single global entity. Get real.

Oh, and Alex Jones is retarded.

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens1555741_1228970838large_laughing_pig_with_bord er.jpg

[revolutionary8]

hi justin
Conspiracy alert.
:D
psst.
Justin rocked for me (even at the KOs) for quite some time, UNTIL he slacked up on Obama. Keep the reigns tight on your polytishuns my friends. It's our DUTY.
R dawg has since redeemed himself in my eyes, but I am still skeptical= of course.
You know, it always BOTHERED ME that the FACT of the matter is= "skeptics" are the ones backing the "official story". How the F did that happen?;)