PDA

View Full Version : Reasons for abolishing departments




skinnyskittles1989
09-16-2007, 03:42 PM
I've been following Ron Paul for a while and I finally decided to sign up here. I'm trying to convince my parents to support RP but I need some more information on a few of his positions. What are his reasons for abolishing the department of education and the department of energy? Thanks!

Chester Copperpot
09-16-2007, 03:43 PM
I've been following Ron Paul for a while and I finally decided to sign up here. I'm trying to convince my parents to support RP but I need some more information on a few of his positions. What are his reasons for abolishing the department of education and the department of energy? Thanks!

Because they dont do anything to actually help our education or energy program.. just a bunch of govt waste at the federal level.

0zzy
09-16-2007, 03:44 PM
Department of Education
-Since it's conception we have spent billions more on education and yet we have fallen in the international ranks of education. We also have forced failed policies like "No Child Left Behind" on schools. By 2012 ALL schools must have EVERY student pass an exam, even mentally challenge kids. Failure to do so will mean the school will be marked as a "poor" school and will be taken over by the federal government. Every teacher, janitor, and lunch lady will be fired and replaced.

Paulina
09-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Because they only benefit jews and brown people.

Give your parents some Dirty-Mexican slim jims, some God-Hates-Isreal slim jims, and some Love-My-guns slim jims.

That will say it all.

sylvania
09-16-2007, 03:47 PM
It took me a while to realize that most of the questions asked by people who are learning about Ron Paul can be answered fairly easily. Why should a centralized federal government be in charge of things like education when this should and can be done better, easier and cheaper by the states? Doesn't it make sense that when local governments are creating the laws, rules and regulations, you get much better representation for the people who live there.

apropos
09-16-2007, 03:48 PM
The argument to abolish the Dept. of Education is also good because it returns control of the curriculum to the states and communities. As Paul once said, our Founding Fathers envisioned a school system that answers to parents, not to bureaucrats in D.C.

Johnnybags
09-16-2007, 03:52 PM
We have a national energy crisis and the school system is turning out Ms Teen South Carolina's. Who has their hand in it, federal departments. Ask your parents why in Gods name the Federal Transportation Safety board is spending more time trying to get Mexican junk trucks in the country than anything else? Ask them is the war on drugs is working or does it seem more drugs are on the streets than ever before?

Ron Paul Fan
09-16-2007, 03:56 PM
And the Department of Homeland Security which did a great job down in New Orleans. Very efficient. This was a department created after 9/11 because of all the fear that the terrorists would strike again. Can someone tell me what the difference is between the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense? It seems like we could get by with just the Department of Defense if we actually defended our borders and not other countries borders.

skinnyskittles1989
09-16-2007, 03:58 PM
Thank you very much everybody, I believe my father has just been convinced.

Infidel
09-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Here in the south we don\'t need no Fed\'s telling us how to educate our darkies.

quickmike
09-16-2007, 04:01 PM
just here bumping non troll threads............... dont mind me


lol

Dustancostine
09-16-2007, 04:06 PM
Here is a great reason to abolish the dept. of ed. I just opened a business here in the Dakota Square Mall in Minot, ND. I just had two ninth graders (High School) who did not know what the word "intentionally" meant. I had to tell them it means "on purpose", you know opposite of "on accident".
:eek: :eek: :eek:

stevedasbach
09-16-2007, 04:18 PM
I began teaching in 1975, just prior to the establishment of the Department of Education. The Dept of Ed has been a complete disaster. Falling test scores -- more and more kids labeled "learning disabled" -- dumbing down the curriculum. The Feds provide around 10% of school funding and it ALWAYS comes with strings and huge paperwork/administrative burdens. If the department disappeared tomorrow, it would be a net plus for student learning K-12. A short transition preriod would minimize the disruption.

Student loans do help students attend college, but there are ways to transition to providing such loans privately.

Johnnybags
09-16-2007, 04:19 PM
Here is a great reason to abolish the dept. of ed. I just opened a business here in the Dakota Square Mall in Minot, ND. I just had two ninth graders (High School) who did not know what the word "intentionally" meant. I had to tell them it means "on purpose", you know opposite of "on accident".
:eek: :eek: :eek:

the Federal governments inflationary polices and expansion as well. Yes, we had a few dunces in our class in the 70's in grade school but not many. Most kids had a parent at home when they got home and usually a dad working, making enough to live in dignity and affording the mother a chance to see the child did his work. Now, generally its two people to work for the same dignity and lifestyle and the kids are virtually alone to grow up.
I liken it to the African preserve where many of the animals were being killed overnight. People thought poachers were killing them at first. After installing cameras they found juvenile elephants going wild at night trampling everything? The cure, they brought a few adult elephants into the preserve, it never happened again.

Thurston Howell III
09-16-2007, 04:22 PM
Good question and all very good answers, logical and with sound reasoning. However, it's my belief that the prinicpal reasoning is because the Constitution does not deligate any authority to government for Education, Energy and a whole host of other non-Constitutional programs currently in force. Responsibilities and duties authorized to government from the people are found in Art 1 Sec 8 of the Constituion, if memory serves. Clearly federal government is restricted to those specific duties. Everything else is deligated to the States or the People. The key is deligation of authority.
However if you compare these duties to what government actualy does you will ask yourself how can this be, most governemt programs are illegal (un-constituional). How do they get away with it? Here's a good explaination and a good place to start your research.
http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml
Then, if you want to have some fun, turn the tables and ask your parents how their government school system failed to teach you about how your Constitutional Republic is suppose to function.

BTW this is my first post. It's good to be here. This is a fantastic forum. I appreciate all that I get from it.

Vvick727
09-16-2007, 04:35 PM
In the 1950s, the US was top in education, far above the rest of the world.

Now it's somewhere ranked around 21st

Guess when the department of education was created? Yup, 1950s.


i got that tidbit from watching Badnarik's 7 hr constitution class video. One of the most informative things I've seen

Johnnybags
09-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Good question and all very good answers, logical and with sound reasoning. However, it's my belief that the prinicpal reasoning is because the Constitution does not deligate any authority to government for Education, Energy and a whole host of other non-Constitutional programs currently in force. Responsibilities and duties authorized to government from the people are found in Art 1 Sec 8 of the Constituion, if memory serves. Clearly federal government is restricted to those specific duties. Everything else is deligated to the States or the People. The key is deligation of authority.
However if you compare these duties to what government actualy does you will ask yourself how can this be, most governemt programs are illegal (un-constituional). How do they get away with it? Here's a good explaination and a good place to start your research.
http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml
Then, if you want to have some fun, turn the tables and ask your parents how their government school system failed to teach you about how your Constitutional Republic is suppose to function.

BTW this is my first post. It's good to be here. This is a fantastic forum. I appreciate all that I get from it.


Say hi to Lovee for me.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-16-2007, 04:41 PM
I've been following Ron Paul for a while and I finally decided to sign up here. I'm trying to convince my parents to support RP but I need some more information on a few of his positions. What are his reasons for abolishing the department of education and the department of energy? Thanks!

Why not? Shouldn't the states make the call? It's about about state's rights. They don't call it the united STATES for no reason.

BillyDkid
09-16-2007, 04:46 PM
Because they only benefit jews and brown people.

Give your parents some Dirty-Mexican slim jims, some God-Hates-Isreal slim jims, and some Love-My-guns slim jims.

That will say it all.can the posts of banned people be deleted? They are still there staring us in the face and making us look bad to visitors.

saku39
09-16-2007, 04:52 PM
NAFTA and CAFTA = managed trade. Not real free trade, benefits insiders more than regular business/people, costs us money as jobs are exported and costs us money because were supporting another country's economy with out tax money. Undermines our sovereignty by letting unelected people who run NAFTA and CAFTA make trade decisions for 3 countries.

Dept of Education = Huge bureaucracy that makes education more expensive and lowers quality. Our standing in education in comparaision to the rest of the world has fallen substantially since its inception. Programs like "No child left behind" undermine state education boards. Also, boys over the age of 15 get their name submitted to the armed forces, so they can start sending marketing materials to try and recruit new soldiers. This dept is unconstitutional as education should be a citizen, county or state function, not federal.

Dept of Energy = The reason why energy is so expensive. The reason why so little nuclear power is used and why we are trapped in the middle east over oil. Also, even though they are in control of getting material for nuclear weapons, their secutiry is so bad that there have been scandals over spies stealing nuclear secrets for other nations, like China.

Dept of Homeland Security = Gigantic Bureacracy that is too huge to be useful. They were unnecessary in the first place. They were created to protect the US from threats internal and external after 9/11. But why? The both the FBI and CIA had information that showed a possible terrorist attack prior ro 9/11, but didn't act. Creating a larger dept isn't going to solve any problems, in fact it makes it worse and more expensive.

FEMA = A branch of Homeland Security that doesn't need to exist. Disaster relief is not something the federal government should do. It should be at county and state level at most. The people that live in a disaster area have a more vested interest in their towns than some guy sitting in a desk in Washington. They have actually made re-building of New Orleans go slower because of stupid rules and regulations. There are grassfires in the Northwest that the locals say are actually made worse by FEMA. Or their bad response to the Buffalo snowstorm. Consider the Galveston hurricane of 1900, it killed 8000 people and completely destroyed the city. They rebuilt the entire city and created a seawall that still works and stands to this day, with no federal assistance and no federal money. We don't need FEMA because local organizations/government out perform them easily and they are an inefficient nightmare to begin with.

Federal Reserve = Repsonsible for the boom and bust cycles of business. The 1920's stock market boom and crash, the great depression, the stagflation of the 1970's, recession of 1980-1982, the recession of 1992, tech dot-com boom and bust, the credit bubble of 2003-2005, and the current collapsing housing market-- All caused by the Federal Reserve. They create money out of thin air, which is the source of inflation. Their tampering with the money supply and artifical interest rates cause the boom and bust cycles.

IRS = part of why government is so big. Personal income tax accounts for less than 35% of all government spending. By not fighting having over 750 millitary bases in 150 countries, not fighting stupid wars over seas, and by simply reducing spending back to 1999 levels, we wouldn't need an IRS. The government can't create bad programs and fight stupid wars without our tax money.

Ironically, all of these people believe they're helping or providing some service to us, but they are not.

We don't need more federal government. Consider the last 7 years.

A manically stupid Iraq war, bad intelligence, bad organization in times of crisis, Katrina response, gigantic amounts of debt, getting rid of habeus corpus, the shredding of the bill of rights. . . All because governmental power was concentrated at the federal level.

And it's not just Bush. You can have an angel in place at the presidency, but the guy that might next be elected might be a demon. So, you have to make sure that the people elected aren't even in a place to abuse power-- which means less federal control, less federal power, less federal government.

rajibo
09-16-2007, 05:04 PM
Unfortunately, my State can't seem to run anything either.:rolleyes:

ButchHowdy
09-16-2007, 05:43 PM
I feel we need to be careful about just WHAT we push back to the States, as the States can be equally corrupt.

The Florida BPR (Business and Professional Regulation) put me out of business in 2001 by revoking their license 'allowing' me to sell boats over 32' because I refused to settle for a $10,000 penalty and submit to their bogus charges.

These are departments that are supposed to sustain themselves on licensing fees but the lure of $10,000 fines is all to irresistible to them. I even wrote a letter to Jeb Bush trying to expose what this department was doing to me but the bastard forwarded my letter back to the BPR!

I then lost every step along the way in THEIR administrative court system, pushing the fine to $50,000 but it was during this time I learned about the constitutional right to contract and first heard about this guy named Ron Paul!

EDIT: The constitutional right to contract and the ABUSE thereof

saku39
09-16-2007, 06:16 PM
I feel we need to be careful about just WHAT we push back to the States, as the States can be equally corrupt.

This is true, state can be just as bad as federal.

But if I had a choice between a state government that is more acccessable and a federal government that is more inaccessable, I would choose state in a heart beat.

It's easier to create change at a local level than it is on a national level.

There's actually a few peeople out there running on a Ron Paul-like platform on state and federal levels.