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CatherineBleish
03-14-2009, 12:52 AM
I received similar comments from liberal members of IVAW who want me kicked out of the local chapter. I am so exhausted from working on this Missouri issue I can't even think straight. They really have a very misguided view of who we are and what we want. How do we reach out? How do I respond to emails like the following?


**** Start Email from Democrat Friend *******
I read the documents you posted and I am afraid of what I read, but for different reasons than you are. I was struck how similar your way of thinking is to those that may be in a militia. Doesn't it strike you that you are so quickly associated with racists and murderers? Why do you think that is? Are you not aware of the types of people that are protesting alongside you in this movement and that some of them intend to promote violence? I know you are not so naive as to think that all people who speak of revolution and succession have a peaceful intent. Some of these people are terrified of the federal government and your rhetoric on your radioshow is trending more and more in that direction.

Some of your issues, i'm sorry to say, are littered with factual errors and smell so strongly of conspiracy theory. I meant it when I said that I felt you had gone off the deep end. I have not swallowed any pill that keeps me from understanding the truth. I'm not one of those 911 truthers because their arguments are antiscientific and lack proper evidence or motive. I'm not afraid that Obama is going to take our guns because that would completely be anti his political agenda. I'm not terrified of being kidnapped and thrown into a "concentration camp" and I don't even want to justify that with an explanation.

You've been sucked into this movement that has a very bad reputation because of some violent extremists in the movement. Nowhere in the memo does it say that everyone in the Constitution or Libertarian parties or any politician will be targeted. All it was saying was that some very bad people associate themselves with these groups, and that is the fact of the matter. Some very bad people i'm sure are quite excited right now that you are happy to step up and get people all worked up and afraid of the police and paranoid that they are being watched.

You talked so much about love and fear. You may be trying to come from a place of love, but many people in your movement are buying into conspiracy theories that are making them fear the government, and are becoming radicalized, and could potentially be violent. These are people from which I want my police to protect me.

I guess this will probably be my last effort to save you from this, as you will probably hate me or think I'm the enemy for speaking the truth. You asked for my help and I think you need a little tough love.
****** End Email ******

This makes my heart sad as this was a great friend of mine years ago who now thinks I'm a lunatic and won't talk to me. I contacted her today to tell her things had got serious and no matter our political differences, I need my friends now more than ever. That was her response. :(

UtahApocalypse
03-14-2009, 12:54 AM
I would explain tho them that yuor concern is that OUR way of thinking is NOT that of the vilent Militias that the document proposes to link us with.

nbhadja
03-14-2009, 01:08 AM
Well she is a sheep and she has complete blind loyalty to the government. She thinks the government only has good intentions so any talk of the government doing anything bad intentionally will immediately be dismissed as crazy talk by her.

She maybe brainwashed beyond repair.

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-14-2009, 01:10 AM
Are you not aware of the types of people that are protesting alongside you in this movement

What types of people is this person referring to?


Some of these people are terrified of the federal government

What possible reason could people have to be terrified of our benevolent empire?

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-14-2009, 01:19 AM
I
I meant it when I said that I felt you had gone off the deep end.

No doubt the most telling statement in the whole letter.


All it was saying was that some very bad people associate themselves with these groups

I reckon we won't find any very bad people on Wall Street, Capitol Hill, or Law Enforcement. Where are the memo's?

CatherineBleish
03-14-2009, 01:22 AM
I

I reckon we won't find any very bad people on Wall Street, Capitol Hill, or Law Enforcement. Where are the memo's?

lol I must say this made my exhausted droopy-eyed self laugh.

Jeremy
03-14-2009, 01:23 AM
tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

CatherineBleish
03-14-2009, 01:24 AM
que?

Jeremy
03-14-2009, 01:27 AM
que?

in other words, theyre wrong, youre right. don't give up, talk about liberty even more :D

oh and i guess this person doesnt understand that liberty is the opposite of violence or collectivism

CatherineBleish
03-14-2009, 01:28 AM
She is not the only one saying these things to me. Where are they getting their information to think we are so violent/crazy?

Jeremy
03-14-2009, 01:30 AM
They're playing politics. They like to think there's something wrong with someone who doesn't agree with them.

Epic
03-14-2009, 02:48 AM
If this person trusts the government so blindly, why is he/she in Iraq Veterans Against the War?

It also appears that they are under the assumption that if one militia did something questionable in the US several years ago, then there should not ever be any more militias ever, constitutional guarantee be damned.

LittleLightShining
03-14-2009, 06:41 AM
Catherine, I feel for you. I don't have any real life friends (outside of C4L and family) that understand where I'm coming from. The other day on facebook I posted the World's Smallest Political Quiz. I am a Left Libertarian according to the results. I had friends tell me that i "used to be so far left when they met me." I asked what's different. Other than that I'm working in the GOP. They couldn't answer. The issues I talk about matter to them but they still have a hard time reconciling my political affiliation. I'm trying to draw the right and left together on these issues. I know it can be done we just have had such a divided environment for so long. People are conditioned to believe what they believe. Taken out of political context we can find agreement.

You had someone on the line last night who talked about engaging this from a civil liberty point of view. I would also suggest engaging from a law point of view. What is the law? The constitution. The basis for all of discussion should start with the constitution. The Constitution protects everyone in their right to say what they want, pray how they want, assemble when and where they want. If the Constitution was being followed as the sub-groups in the MIAC pamphlet would like it to be then we would not be singling these groups as potentially dangerous. It is our right to dissent. (Also, as for the IVAW I made friends with a Progressive member of the group and though he's not around here anymore and though we disagreed on some stuff he was grateful that the Ron Paul community came together to help him in his (truly) quixotic run for Congress. Because we ALL believe in the rule of law.)

It kills me because however much these leftists hated Bush, however wrong the Patriot Act is we didn't have a Ruby Ridge or Waco during his administration. Not because of the Patriot Act but because people who believe in and act within their Constitutional rights weren't demonized and hunted down. Leftists-- especially young ones-- have no vivid memory of Janet Reno and her witch hunt. So it starts again with a whole new generation of state indoctrinated youth.

People have been brainwashed into associating Libertarians with racists and anarchists because they don't understand what Libertarians are. It's not your job to try to explain where you are coming from. It's your job to SHOW them where you are coming from. I have no doubt in my mind that you do this every single day. You walk the talk.

Your friend is afraid. S/he criticizes you because you are coming from a place of fear yet that is where she is coming from. In between her words I sense that she is dissatisfied with what's happening. She probably has an Obama sticker on her car and considers herself in the "Yes we did!" camp. Now the reality is hitting and she's too proud to admit she was duped. She'll realize it. You can only be true to yourself and what you believe because when what you believe is love and truth you will eventually be vindicated.

I'm sorry I've rambled so much. I don't know if I even answered your question but you're not alone. We all get discouraged. I'm so proud and grateful for the work you're doing. Thank you so much for having the will to keep on keeping on.

torchbearer
03-14-2009, 07:11 AM
Hang in there... Every day I get more and more people coming up to me and telling me I was right about everything.
Imagine how Ron feels on a daily basis.
It is our cross to bare.

Truth Warrior
03-14-2009, 07:18 AM
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 08:13 AM
This makes my heart sad as this was a great friend of mine years ago who now thinks I'm a lunatic and won't talk to me. I contacted her today to tell her things had got serious and no matter our political differences, I need my friends now more than ever. That was her response. :(

I'm very sorry to hear that. I would like to add a couple of points though.
There are many in this country that love socialism. They want what is coming. They are looking forward to the New World Order and a One World Government. They are "OK" with it. :(
Not much you can do but separate yourself from them. They ARE NOT your friend.

The second part is more difficult for some gentler folks to grasp.
The Memo was released from your area and you have the ball. But it is not specific to you, I am sure that this is nationwide. There has been a long running propaganda campaign to discredit and vilify the Militia. OKC did not happen as reported.
There are very few in the Patriot Movement that were Racist , Separatist, or violent. Most are honest folks that see what is coming.
I think that is what bothered me most with this Memo. It is more of the Propaganda War on the 2nd amendment. They want to paint all defenders as the Enemy.
There is not much you can do for folks that will not see what is right in front of them.
I lived in Columbia Mo some years ago, there are freedom loving folks around there.
Reach the ones you can. Beware of those you can't.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 08:30 AM
Perhaps mentioning that groups such as ELF/ALF/EarthFirst/etc... are mostly Obama supporters and by extension paint all Dems as potential terrorists.

One could talk of Greenpeace blowing up a ship and mention that most GP members voted for O, and by extension, paint all Dems as potential terrorists.

We could ask how they felt when Bush outlawed war-protesting by executive order

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/5-seizing-war-protesters-assets/

We could show pictures of all the anti-WTO/etc protests and ask how many of the violent look like GOP/LD/CP members.

We could explain the non-agression principle and how anyone who advocates the initiation of violence is not really "one of us"

We could ask for examples of extermists in our midst?

Hmmmm... what else....

speciallyblend
03-14-2009, 09:41 AM
i am confused . how the hell can someone actually be a member of IVAW and then turn around and trust the government or not see the trouble in the missouri police document!!

are these people braindead in that state in the IVAW?

someone better wake these folks up!!

I cannot understand how they cannot see the problem here,unless they are government plants inside the IVAW!!

not saying there are but what other excuse to they have other then ignorance!!

speciallyblend
03-14-2009, 09:44 AM
If this person trusts the government so blindly, why is he/she in Iraq Veterans Against the War?

It also appears that they are under the assumption that if one militia did something questionable in the US several years ago, then there should not ever be any more militias ever, constitutional guarantee be damned.

exactly what i was thinking really!

torchbearer
03-14-2009, 09:45 AM
i am confused . how the hell can someone actually be a member of IVAW and then turn around and trust the government or not see the trouble in the missouri police document!!

are these people braindead in that state in the IVAW?

someone better wake these folks up!!

I cannot understand how they cannot see the problem here,unless they are government plants inside the IVAW!!

not saying there are but what other excuse to they have other then ignorance!!

Obama is The One?

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 09:47 AM
She is not the only one saying these things to me. Where are they getting their information to think we are so violent/crazy?

Woah, wait a minute. This is something from Bizarro world.

The folks with the guns and a habit of Tazering disent, shooting un armed citizens, Physically abusing innocent people are painting the Freedom movement as violent????

Color me confused. :confused:

klamath
03-14-2009, 09:58 AM
You might mention to her that Bill Ayers the former member of The Weather underground and a mentor of Obama not only talked violence but carried it out agains innocent people. There are strong ties between the current democrats and the violent left of the '60's and '70"s.

Dripping Rain
03-14-2009, 10:00 AM
this sucks
the campaign for liberty should respond and defend its members

LittleLightShining
03-14-2009, 10:03 AM
this sucks
the campaign for liberty should respond and defend its membersI'm annoyed at the lack of response, too.

Paulitical Correctness
03-14-2009, 10:06 AM
I've found that you have to play stupid with your friends. If you want to educate people, make sure they're acquaintances or strangers.

The fact that she used to be your friend, but now thinks you're a "lunatic" tells me she never was a friend.

Elle
03-14-2009, 10:22 AM
I've found that you have to play stupid with your friends.


this



You might mention to her that Bill Ayers the former member of The Weather underground and a mentor of Obama not only talked violence but carried it out agains innocent people. There are strong ties between the current democrats and the violent left of the '60's and '70"s.

Good point. Just ask her if she is comparing Ron Paul supporters to Bill Ayers.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 10:27 AM
this sucks
the campaign for liberty should respond and defend its members


I'm annoyed at the lack of response, too.

Why? Aren't we doing a good enough job on our own?

Political wisdom is that the first response to negative press is "no response"

Dripping Rain
03-14-2009, 10:33 AM
Why? Aren't we doing a good enough job on our own?

Political wisdom is that the first response to negative press is "no response"

ok i considered that in a thread in the c4l forum. i understand. but ethically where do you draw the line?
when one member's reputation is destroyed?
when its 10 members?
or when its 100k members?
its their call but i wanted to just get the ball rolling and minds thinking

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 10:34 AM
Why? Aren't we doing a good enough job on our own?

Political wisdom is that the first response to negative press is "no response"

This is NOT " negative press".
This was a leaked memo to the enforcement arm of the Government. It was never meant to be seen by the public.
It does not deserve to be to be treated as anything but a threat to civil liberties.
The "spin"that is being tried by the police spokesman and the radio station host needs to be seen as nothing but propaganda spin.

LittleLightShining
03-14-2009, 10:35 AM
Why? Aren't we doing a good enough job on our own?

Political wisdom is that the first response to negative press is "no response"I'm satisfied with us. But there are plenty of Sandra's out there that would help us if someone "official" came out with a response. This has been verified, the conference is coming up. You would think they would have something to say to the attendees.

Sandra
03-14-2009, 10:38 AM
Several pages were scanned then sent. Not typical of a hurriedly leaked memo. This was a fricken BOOKLET.

Dripping Rain
03-14-2009, 10:40 AM
I'm satisfied with us. But there are plenty of Sandra's out there that would help us if someone "official" came out with a response. This has been verified, the conference is coming up. You would think they would have something to say to the attendees.


This is NOT " negative press".
This was a leaked memo to the enforcement arm of the Government. It was never meant to be seen by the public.
It does not deserve to be to be treated as anything but a threat to civil liberties.
The "spin"that is being tried by the police spokesman and the radio station host needs to be seen as nothing but propaganda spin.
__________________

2 excellent posts

Dripping Rain
03-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Several pages were scanned then sent. Not typical of a hurriedly leaked memo. This was a fricken BOOKLET.

it was a manual

the quality of the scans clearly shows it was done in a hurry by someone who was nervous
thats why some pages are out of the borders

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 10:51 AM
This is NOT " negative press".
This was a leaked memo to the enforcement arm of the Government. It was never meant to be seen by the public.
It does not deserve to be to be treated as anything but a threat to civil liberties.
The "spin"that is being tried by the police spokesman and the radio station host needs to be seen as nothing but propaganda spin.

I agree that this needs to be treated as a threat to civil liberties, but do not see how you can say it is not negative press. Most events like this start as a "leak", it is in the press, and it paints us in a bad light. My main point is to try to keep people from flying off the handle and being distracted. I would much rather see people helping the LRP and creativly seeking ways to use this in our favor, than wasting time waiting for CfL to jump in, and complaining about it.


I'm satisfied with us. But there are plenty of Sandra's out there that would help us if someone "official" came out with a response. This has been verified, the conference is coming up. You would think they would have something to say to the attendees.

The wheels in DC turn slowly, and if they are using the same counsel they did in the campaign, I would rather they NOT get involved...

LittleLightShining
03-14-2009, 10:58 AM
I agree that this needs to be treated as a threat to civil liberties, but do not see how you can say it is not negative press. Most events like this start as a "leak", it is in the press, and it paints us in a bad light. My main point is to try to keep people from flying off the handle and being distracted. I would much rather see people helping the LRP and creativly seeking ways to use this in our favor, than wasting time waiting for CfL to jump in, and complaining about it.



The wheels in DC turn slowly, and if they are using the same counsel they did in the campaign, I would rather they NOT get involved...After listening to the Nolan show it COULD be negative press. That said, the Tribune article was great.

Between this and DR's thread you're convincing me of your take on the situation, though. But I still can't help wishing that they would at least pick the story up for the Liberty Wire. People going to the conference have a right to know that this is legit.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 11:24 AM
After listening to the Nolan show it COULD be negative press. That said, the Tribune article was great.

Between this and DR's thread you're convincing me of your take on the situation, though. But I still can't help wishing that they would at least pick the story up for the Liberty Wire. People going to the conference have a right to know that this is legit.

:) - Thanks. I do understand, and am mainly just trying to keep people from flying off the handle. People have to be more patient with 'official" orgs (and that is why I like "pure grassroots" so much :D)

FTR - I dislike walking the high-wire ;). Much happier taming elephants...

phill4paul
03-14-2009, 11:29 AM
Ooops I think I posted in the other post on this matter what I meant to post in this one......

"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary."
Brendan Behan

With my personal addendum... "if played wisely."

Many Americans are against profiling. Though most think of "racial" profiling. This in and of itself could be considered "political" profiling.

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 11:38 AM
Many Americans are against profiling. Though most think of "racial" profiling. This in and of itself could be considered "political" profiling.

Good point.
This is neither positive or negitive press at this point. It wasn't press at all. It is a breaking story.
The various Freedom Orgs. need to put the spin on this or the Hannity's will.

If we wait for them we will be fighting up hill.

phill4paul
03-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Good point.
This is neither positive or negitive press at this point. It wasn't press at all. It is a breaking story.
The various Freedom Orgs. need to put the spin on this or the Hannity's will.

If we wait for them we will be fighting up hill.

Exactly.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 11:55 AM
Good point.
This is neither positive or negitive press at this point. It wasn't press at all. It is a breaking story.
The various Freedom Orgs. need to put the spin on this or the Hannity's will.

If we wait for them we will be fighting up hill.

+1

At this point, I am not concerned with "official" responses. I'm quite certain they are working up strategies.

One thing I think we all can do is stay on top of the comment sections wherever this pops up. Stay away from mentioning anything that will dismiss us as "kooks" and focus on the profiling charge.

Back to the topic, what would be the best response a liberal asking where we were when they were attacked in similar fashion?

One other thing from the ConCall last night; a guest from a DC leftist lobbying group mentioned that most on the left are still on a victory high and are not interested in much but helping O succeed. Keeping in mind how we would feel, if we had won, how can best we use this to reach out to the left?

phill4paul
03-14-2009, 11:59 AM
+1

At this point, I am not concerned with "official" responses. I'm quite certain they are working up strategies.

One thing I think we all can do is stay on top of the comment sections wherever this pops up. Stay away from mentioning anything that will dismiss us as "kooks" and focus on the profiling charge.

Back to the topic, what would be the best response a liberal asking where we were when they were attacked in similar fashion?

One other thing from the ConCall last night; a guest from a DC leftist lobbying group mentioned that most on the left are still on a victory high and are not interested in much but helping O succeed. Keeping in mind how we would feel, if we had won, how can best we use this to reach out to the left?

I think anyone on the "left" would understand what racial profiling is. Being that we are not on the "right", for independents and Dr. Paul crossovers, that should not be a problem.

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 12:02 PM
+1



Back to the topic, what would be the best response a liberal asking where we were when they were attacked in similar fashion?



That's easy.
COINTELPRO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
The wiki is just a place to start, the research will show a habit of Govt. abuses aimed at the"left".

http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/w/3/-/-/jedgarhoover.jpg

Hoover is better remembered today for civil liberties abuses such as COINTELPRO program.

phill4paul
03-14-2009, 12:06 PM
That's easy.
COINTELPRO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
The wiki is just a place to start, the research will show a habit of Govt. abuses aimed at the"left".

And nobody likes to be called a hypocrite.:D

evilfunnystuff
03-14-2009, 12:24 PM
This makes my heart sad as this was a great friend of mine years ago who now thinks I'm a lunatic and won't talk to me. I contacted her today to tell her things had got serious and no matter our political differences, I need my friends now more than ever. That was her response. :(

one depressing thing about waking up or becoming more active/motivated is you find out who arent your real friends

either that or you compromise your integrity and bite your tongue when you should be injecting your own views and trying to open their eyes just so you can still be "cool" and accepted tryin to keep it bottled up like a coward and the stress causes a stroke and as you die you realize you made the wrong choice.

but the good news is more than likely you will make many new friends that share your views within the movement and in a year or few maybe your "friend" will come around

good luck and stay strong

tremendoustie
03-14-2009, 12:37 PM
I've found that you have to play stupid with your friends. If you want to educate people, make sure they're acquaintances or strangers.

The fact that she used to be your friend, but now thinks you're a "lunatic" tells me she never was a friend.

I sort of agree, I think you need to walk softly with anyone. If you hit them with everything too soon, they get scared. It just takes some tact. If a person wants bigger government, don't start trying to convince them to privatize the roads. If a person wants to invade Iran, don't try to convince them we only need a well armed citizenry, and not a standing army.

I myself am not a 911 truther, and I don't believe in Fema camps, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't hit someone with this until they were pretty much on board with most of the rest of what I believed anyway.

This goes for friends or aquaintences. Most all of my friends and family know where I stand, but I try to treat it with kid gloves. No one's freaked out yet, and a couple have come around -- you might try more of that. (Admittedly, I don't know very many people who are truly sucked into mainstream thought, to the point where they can't even consider other ideas).

It strikes me that it might not be a good thing that the OP's friend knows he believes in the fema camps, or 911 truth. Baby steps.

phill4paul
03-14-2009, 12:43 PM
I sort of agree, I think you need to walk softly with anyone. If you hit them with everything too soon, they get scared. It just takes some tact. If a person wants bigger government, don't start trying to convince them to privatize the roads. If a person wants to invade Iran, don't try to convince them we only need a well armed citizenry, and not a standing army.

I myself am not a 911 truther, and I don't believe in Fema camps, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't hit someone with this until they were pretty much on board with most of the rest of what I believed anyway.

This goes for friends or aquaintences. Most all of my friends and family know where I stand, but I try to treat it with kid gloves. No one's freaked out yet, and a couple have come around -- you might try more of that. (Admittedly, I don't know very many people who are truly sucked into mainstream thought, to the point where they can't even consider other ideas).

It strikes me that it might not be a good thing that the OP's friend knows he believes in the fema camps, or 911 truth. Baby steps.

"You can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink." Start out with a pail instead of a trough.:p:D

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 01:08 PM
I sort of agree, I think you need to walk softly with anyone. If you hit them with everything too soon, they get scared. It just takes some tact. If a person wants bigger government, don't start trying to convince them to privatize the roads. If a person wants to invade Iran, don't try to convince them we only need a well armed citizenry, and not a standing army.

I myself am not a 911 truther, and I don't believe in Fema camps, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't hit someone with this until they were pretty much on board with most of the rest of what I believed anyway.

This goes for friends or aquaintences. Most all of my friends and family know where I stand, but I try to treat it with kid gloves. No one's freaked out yet, and a couple have come around -- you might try more of that. (Admittedly, I don't know very many people who are truly sucked into mainstream thought, to the point where they can't even consider other ideas).

It strikes me that it might not be a good thing that the OP's friend knows he believes in the fema camps, or 911 truth. Baby steps.

What does this have to do with the VERY REAL document just discovered.
Do you try to get their help in exposing it by ignoring it?
Do you just not talk about the fact that we are being profiled along with violent hate groups?

She is being rejected because people are rejecting the ugly truth.

tremendoustie
03-14-2009, 01:47 PM
What does this have to do with the VERY REAL document just discovered.
Do you try to get their help in exposing it by ignoring it?
Do you just not talk about the fact that we are being profiled along with violent hate groups?

She is being rejected because people are rejecting the ugly truth.

No, I wasn't talking about that. Although, I would only try to enlist the help of those who were at least somewhat on my side -- rather than risk scaring others.

I was mainly taking about 911 truth and fema camps, etc.

I don't mean to be critical, I'm just trying to offer a couple suggestions, that could be helpful. It's easy to scare people if you don't gauge where they're at. Even if you think what you say is true, sometimes it's not a good idea to say certain things -- don't give people who want to reject you an excuse to do so.

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 01:52 PM
No, I wasn't talking about that. Although, I would only try to enlist the help of those who were at least somewhat on my side -- rather than risk scaring others.

I was mainly taking about 911 truth and fema camps, etc.

I don't mean to be critical, I'm just trying to offer a couple suggestions, that could be helpful. It's easy to scare people if you don't gauge where they're at. Even if you think what you say is true, sometimes it's not a good idea to say certain things -- don't give people who want to reject you an excuse to do so.

Yes , but that has nothing to do with her post.

She is being rejected because this document has surfaced. Not for 9/11 or FEMA camps or Conspiracy theories.
They are rejecting her because of THIS issue.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Yes , but that has nothing to do with her post.

She is being rejected because this document has surfaced. Not for 9/11 or FEMA camps or Conspiracy theories.
They are rejecting her because of THIS issue.

We really don't know if she has ever raised the ConTheory issues previously, which would make it easier for some to dismiss this.

I'd imagine some of the rejection is an "ostrich" reaction. Others may be because of the victory "high" some fools are on. Yes, they are responding to her request for help on this issue, but I bet the reasons for the response are complicated.

What matters to me is how we handle the next potential allies from the left...

tremendoustie
03-14-2009, 02:20 PM
We really don't know if she has ever raised the ConTheory issues previously, which would make it easier for some to dismiss this.

I'd imagine some of the rejection is an "ostrich" reaction. Others may be because of the victory "high" some fools are on. Yes, they are responding to her request for help on this issue, but I bet the reasons for the response are complicated.

What matters to me is how we handle the next potential allies from the left...


I guess, the OP seemed to indicate this:



Some of your issues, i'm sorry to say, are littered with factual errors and smell so strongly of conspiracy theory. I meant it when I said that I felt you had gone off the deep end. I have not swallowed any pill that keeps me from understanding the truth. I'm not one of those 911 truthers because their arguments are antiscientific and lack proper evidence or motive. I'm not afraid that Obama is going to take our guns because that would completely be anti his political agenda. I'm not terrified of being kidnapped and thrown into a "concentration camp" and I don't even want to justify that with an explanation.

It seems like the friend may have been scared off by some of these things ...

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-14-2009, 02:50 PM
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

I like the concept. The dude on the right could use a badge or other notable feature to better convey the point.

CatherineBleish
03-14-2009, 04:09 PM
We really don't know if she has ever raised the ConTheory issues previously, which would make it easier for some to dismiss this.

I'd imagine some of the rejection is an "ostrich" reaction. Others may be because of the victory "high" some fools are on. Yes, they are responding to her request for help on this issue, but I bet the reasons for the response are complicated.

What matters to me is how we handle the next potential allies from the left...


I have not brought up conspiracy stuffs. I tell the local 9/11 truthers that my job is to wake people up and their job is to teach people the full truth, AFTER I have helped them open their eyes. I have been very careful about this - see our LRP issues page - I have received much criticism locally for not talking about 9/11 truth, chemtrails, etc... but I just think you have to shake people awake gently, not by blasting them with facts they are not ready to hear.

ronpaulhawaii
03-14-2009, 04:29 PM
I have not brought up conspiracy stuffs. I tell the local 9/11 truthers that my job is to wake people up and their job is to teach people the full truth, AFTER I have helped them open their eyes. I have been very careful about this - see our LRP issues page - I have received much criticism locally for not talking about 9/11 truth, chemtrails, etc... but I just think you have to shake people awake gently, not by blasting them with facts they are not ready to hear.


That is what I assumed...

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/telchlab/images/tightrope.jpg

Why do you think they brought up the CT stuff?

pcosmar
03-14-2009, 05:14 PM
Why do you think they brought up the CT stuff?

Because it was in the flier or from Info wars.
Nothing against AJ,but this would be easier to explain from another site.
The flier itself mentions some things that people think are theories.

apropos
03-14-2009, 06:51 PM
As for the OP question, I don't know how much of a response this is, but I guess I would say that any group or organization is going to have its bad apples.

Your group is the IVAW, correct? So your friend served in Iraq, but so did those at Abu Ghraib. Does that mean that your friend is equal and operates according to the same motivations as those who committed the Abu Ghraib abuses? No. Your friend is against the war. If someone opposes a war (say Vietnam), is an appropriate response to treat them as no better than an armed enemy soldier (like the Viet Cong)? Not automatically, no. The rationale must be examined - and this movement's rationale is to return our government to its legal Constitutional limits. Seems the Iraq War would not have happened had the government's philosophy matched this movement's philosophy. Therefore, tell your friend you expect this sort of discernment and respect for yourself and this movement - because every organization has its less than reputable elements - the army, the government, the office you work at, etc.

As for the Obama reference, he is already doing things that are not in keeping with his campaign promises.