Texas Straight Talk: Imagine (a foreign military base in Texas...)

[ladyjade3]

http://www.house.gov/paul/index.shtml

Imagine for a moment that somewhere in the middle of Texas there was a large foreign military base, say Chinese or Russian. Imagine that thousands of armed foreign troops were constantly patrolling American streets in military vehicles. Imagine they were here under the auspices of “keeping us safe” or “promoting democracy” or “protecting their strategic interests.”

Imagine that they operated outside of US law, and that the Constitution did not apply to them. Imagine that every now and then they made mistakes or acted on bad information and accidentally killed or terrorized innocent Americans, including women and children, most of the time with little to no repercussions or consequences. Imagine that they set up check points on our soil and routinely searched and ransacked entire neighborhoods of homes. Imagine if Americans were fearful of these foreign troops, and overwhelmingly thought America would be better off without their presence.

Imagine if some Americans were so angry about them being in Texas that they actually joined together to fight them off, in defense of our soil and sovereignty, because leadership in government refused or were unable to do so. Imagine that those Americans were labeled terrorists or insurgents for their defensive actions, and routinely killed, or captured and tortured by the foreign troops on our land. Imagine that the occupiers’ attitude was that if they just killed enough Americans, the resistance would stop, but instead, for every American killed, ten more would take up arms against them, resulting in perpetual bloodshed. Imagine if most of the citizens of the foreign land also wanted these troops to return home. Imagine if they elected a leader who promised to bring them home and put an end to this horror.

Imagine if that leader changed his mind once he took office.

The reality is that our military presence on foreign soil is as offensive to the people that live there as armed Chinese troops would be if they were stationed in Texas. We would not stand for it here, but we have had a globe straddling empire and a very intrusive foreign policy for decades that incites a lot of hatred and resentment towards us.

According to our own CIA, our meddling in the Middle East was the prime motivation for the horrific attacks on 9/11. But instead of re-evaluating our foreign policy, we have simply escalated it. We had a right to go after those responsible for 9/11, to be sure, but why do so many Americans feel as if we have a right to a military presence in some 160 countries when we wouldn’t stand for even one foreign base on our soil, for any reason? These are not embassies, mind you, these are military installations. The new administration is not materially changing anything about this. Shuffling troops around and playing with semantics does not accomplish the goals of the American people, who simply want our men and women to come home. 50,000 troops left behind in Iraq is not conducive to peace any more than 50,000 Russian soldiers would be in the United States.

Shutting down military bases and ceasing to deal with other nations with threats and violence is not isolationism. It is the opposite. Opening ourselves up to friendship, honest trade and diplomacy is the foreign policy of peace and prosperity. It is the only foreign policy that will not bankrupt us in short order, as our current actions most definitely will. I share the disappointment of the American people in the foreign policy rhetoric coming from the administration. The sad thing is, our foreign policy WILL change eventually, as Rome’s did, when all budgetary and monetary tricks to fund it are exhausted.

[UtahApocalypse]

You know what. I would bet that their will be a foreign base here shortly.....

With the problems going on in the border cities I can envision Obama making an agreement with Mexico for a joint solution. They will place U.S. and Mexico troops in cities on both sides of the border. Mexico will have bases or outposts on the U.S. side and us on theirs. This joint veture will be under the auspice of "Keeping us safe" and "the drug war."

[JoshLowry]

Ron Paul owns. This is a great article.

Reddit Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/83axc/imagine_a_foreign_nations_military_base_is_in/

[raiha]

Yep! He tells it how it is. As usual.

[Dripping Rain]

I dont like reading long boring articles but this was definitely good
one of the best political straight talk ive heard in a long time. thanks for sharing

[JoshLowry]

Bump! Give it a point at reddit!

[constituent]

"Imagine foreign troops in Texas killing Texans, flying the American flag. Murder in the name of 'national security,' occupation under the auspices of 'securing our border,' 'fighting the cartels,' law and order."

Now that is more like it.

[ClayTrainor]

Nobody can say it like the good Dr. Can :cool:

[JoshLowry]

"Imagine foreign troops in Texas killing Texans, flying the American flag. Murder in the name of 'national security,' occupation under the auspices of 'securing our border,' 'fighting the cartels,' law and order."

Now that is more like it.



Texas Straight Talk: This article = b.s.


Are you kidding me? I don't know what to even say to that.

[constituent]

Are you kidding me? I don't know what to even say to that.

Consider it...

It's ok to criticize.

Do you think RP wrote this article?

[ClayTrainor]

Texas Straight Talk: This article = b.s.




:confused:

[ClayTrainor]

Consider it...

It's ok to criticize.

sure... but usually it requires some sort of critical argument, rather than a blatant "bullshit" statement...

[JoshLowry]

Ok. I'm considering this article as being bullshit.

Done.

Yea, that just doesn't work.

This is the heart and soul of why I support Ron Paul.

[ClayTrainor]

Ok. I'm considering this article as being bullshit.

Done.

Yea, that just doesn't work.

This is the heart and soul of why I support Ron Paul.

+1776 :cool:

[constituent]

I consider this to be predictive programming.

I understand it from the anti-war rhetoric perspective...

but I also understand it from the "secure our borders" perspective...

edit: particularly w/ the "flag" allusion, and all the flag propaganda we've seen lately 'round here.

[ClayTrainor]

I consider this to be predictive programming.

wonderful... now explain yourself, and how you've come to that conclusion. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

Ron Paul is just trying to put the 'Average American' into he shoes of the 'Average Iraqi' with this speech, not brainwash anyone.


Wtf are you going on about?



I understand it from the anti-war rhetoric perspective...

but I also understand it from the "secure our borders" perspective...

Are you trying to prove somethign here?


That's great that you claim you 'understand' so much... now explain why this article is bullshit and what type of mindset do you think he's promoting?

[JoshLowry]

Predicitice programming?

It's actually just him putting us in someone else's shoes. It is called "Imagine"

He describes exactly what the Americans have done to Iraq. He's not preparing us for a future occupation of troops on US soil.

Yes, I do think he wrote it.

[constituent]

wonderful... now explain yourself, and how you've come to that conclusion. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

Calm down. How have I come to this conclusion? Through experience, particularly researching RP's stances on border control. This is a recent realization for me.



Ron Paul is just trying to put the 'Average American' into he shoes of the 'Average Iraqi' with this speech, not brainwash anyone.

Does the "Average American" subscribe to the Texas Straight Talk newsletter?

You know better than that.



Wtf are you going on about?

Exactly what I said above.




Are you trying to prove somethign here?

Chill out, "prove something?" No, simply speaking my mind, sorry if that runs contrary to your opinions on the matter.



That's great that you claim you 'understand' so much... now explain why this article is bullshit and what type of mindset do you think he's promoting?

I suggest reading up on his border control positions.

Most people probably agree with them, I do not.

Are we being prepped for a Ntl Guard takeover? Quite possibly, certainly there is a significant degree of popular support for such a thing, even around here. At least, I consider this to be a much greater likelihood than the Chinese ever doing so.

[slacker921]

constituent ... are you saying "we're already there and it's our own government doing this" .. ? i.e. it's bs because we don't need to imagine it. hmmm.. still doesn't match up with some of the other stuff you said. Just what the heck are you saying?

[constituent]

Predicitice programming?

I kind of elaborated on this in the re: to Clay above, but if you'd like me to expand I can do so here in a little while (i'm cleaning the living room right now too :) )



It's actually just him putting us in someone else's shoes. It is called "Imagine"

Well yea, don't get me wrong, I understand that. Sadly, I think he chose a rather unfortunate example considering the rhetoric we've been seeing here lately.



He describes exactly what the Americans have done to Iraq. He's not preparing us for a future occupation of troops on US soil.

I think it is a little bit of both. However, I would like to specify that I do not mean foreign troops on US soil, rather US troops on Texas soil.



Yes, I do think he wrote it.

If that is the case (and I hope it isn't), then I would find that very unfortunate though it wouldn't really surprise me anymore. Unfortunate, I know, that's just how I feel about it.

[JoshLowry]

I think it is a little bit of both. However, I would like to specify that I do not mean foreign troops on US soil, rather US troops on Texas soil.

That's what I meant. I don't think he is preparing us for US Military to occupy Texas soil.

Even if he was preparing us, that would be a good thing. It would be "bullshit" if you thought Ron Paul was in on a big government conspiracy and was trying to brainwash us into compliance/acceptance of this future event. Do you think he is taking marching orders from the elite?



If that is the case (and I hope it isn't), then I would find that very unfortunate though it wouldn't really surprise me anymore. Unfortunate, I know, that's just how I feel about it.

So someone is using Dr. Paul's Texas Straight Talk to push their "predictive programming" out to small government activists?

Are you on any medications?

This article is golden in waking up those that have not yet been exposed to the fallacy that our foreign policy is.

[ClayTrainor]

Calm down.
I'm perfectly calm. I am simply defending ron paul and will call people out, when i see faults in their logic. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.



How have I come to this conclusion? Through experience, particularly researching RP's stances on border control. This is a recent realization for me.


I asked for your logic, not a brief description of your intellectual history.



Does the "Average American" subscribe to the Texas Straight Talk newsletter
You know better than that.


I believe nearly every single American can be regarded as an "Average American"



Chill out, "prove something?" No, simply speaking my mind, sorry if that runs contrary to your opinions on the matter.


You clearly aren't understanding me. When i said, "are you trying to prove something", i said it because you produced no argument and simply told me how you 'understand' something, that i apparently don't.

I'm asking for an explanation, not asking you to tell me that "you understand"

I have no problem with contrary opinions, and i enjoy debate. You called paul's words "bullshit" and i'm calling you on this error in your logic.



I suggest reading up on his border control positions.

Most people probably agree with them, I do not.


This is a fair enough point, but again... your just telling me to read more, because you understand something i don't... can you please give me more information on your positions, as opposed to just telling me how much you understand and how much i need to read?



Are we being prepped for a Ntl Guard takeover? Quite possibly, certainly there is a significant degree of popular support for such a thing, even around here. At least, I consider this to be a much greater likelihood than the Chinese ever doing so.

Again... am i supposed to just take your word for it? where's the argument?


I'm perfectly calm, but i do require an explanationw hen someone calls the words of Dr. Paul, bullshit. Please stop telling me that i basically just "dont understand" and explain it to me.

[constituent]

You clearly aren't understanding me. When i said, "are you trying to prove something", i said it because you produced no argument and simply told me how you 'understand' something, that i apparently don't.

Use the search engine here, and look for "Ron Paul on Immigration," you'll stumble across the links to the page outlining Ron Paul's stances on immigration. Simply read the linked articles.



I have no problem with contrary opinions, and i enjoy debate. You called paul's words "bullshit" and i'm calling you on this error in your logic.

Actually, the words were pretty good. What I consider to be bullshit (and not bullshit, i used b.s. which is a little nicer way of saying it, tone and inflection is difficult over the internet), is constructing another article addressing once again the "elephant in the room" (i'm using this expression to mean that which is obvious, not that which is ignored... though the saying is usually meant to include that notion as well) while ignoring the real danger, the one that is even promoted amongst the recently evolved RP support base.



can you please give me more information on your positions, as opposed to just telling me how much you understand and how much i need to read?

yea man, if you have some specific questions, i'm not trying to sling a bunch of seemingly unrelated mud at RP to prove just this one point. If you were to ask specific questions, that would help me quite a bit.




Again... am i supposed to just take your word for it? where's the argument?

Sorry, I used the quote function, and now I'm not sure which part of my post you were addressing. The argument that I'm advancing, or the areas of contention between myself and RP in this regard?



i do require an explanationw hen someone calls the words of Dr. Paul, bullshit. Please stop telling me that i basically just "dont understand" and explain it to me.

I'm sticking to the premise that RP signed-off on this one, 'cuz imo it would really suck if he didn't. It's just my opinion though, don't make too much of it as it really isn't very important.

[Paulitical Correctness]

And I thought I was guano loco.

[constituent]

It would be "bullshit" if you thought Ron Paul was in on a big government conspiracy and was trying to brainwash us into compliance/acceptance of this future event.

Yea it would be bullshit, that's why I don't believe that. (no sarcasm)



Do you think he is taking marching orders from the elite?

No, but I do believe that RP is "playing ball." Unfortunately, this results in (what i perceive to be) a few uncomfortable philosophical inconsistencies. I have trouble reconciling these inconsistencies with my personal outlook. So it goes, people disagree sometimes.



So someone is using Dr. Paul's Texas Straight Talk to push their "predictive programming" out to small government activists?

Highly unlikely. Though, I have little doubt that someone is using RP's TST as gainful employment (a good thing), and this person is probably influenced by those they surround themselves with (aren't we all?). Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes it is a bad thing. In this case, it's a bad thing (imo).



Are you on any medications?

Is this a loaded question? ;):D



This article is golden in waking up those that have not yet been exposed to the fallacy that our foreign policy is.

Agreed. I just think that it presents a sort of double-edged sword, and given the heated rhetoric lately and w/ talk of "immigration reform" resurfacing, it is unfortunately a great tool for the wrong job.

[constituent]

And I thought I was guano loco.

Do you have something worthwhile to say?

[Paulitical Correctness]

Do you have something worthwhile to say?

Not really. Your mind works differently than mine. I disagree. That's okay, though. I wasn't being a dick, or I would've used batshit crazy - it sounds more insulting. Guano loco was meant lightheartedly.

As you were. :D

[constituent]

Not really. Your mind works differently than mine. I disagree. That's okay, though. I wasn't being a dick, or I would've used batshit crazy - it sounds more insulting. Guano loco was meant lightheartedly.

As you were. :D

Seeeee... that was worthwhile, I enjoy a good turn of phrase. :)

[ClayTrainor]

Use the search engine here, and look for "Ron Paul on Immigration," you'll stumble across the links to the page outlining Ron Paul's stances on immigration. Simply read the linked articles.


I'm aware of Ron's positions on immigration...



Actually, the words were pretty good. What I consider to be bullshit (and not bullshit, i used b.s. which is a little nicer way of saying it, tone and inflection is difficult over the internet), is constructing another article addressing once again the "elephant in the room"(i'm using this expression to mean that which is obvious, not that which is ignored... though the saying is usually meant to include that notion as well)


^^ It's interesting that you talk about the word 'b.s.' more than anything else in this post^^

please put half of this effort into giving me a genuine answer.



while ignoring the real danger, the one that is even promoted amongst the recently evolved RP support base.


^^^And here you once again bring up absolutely nothing but you suggest we are wrong about something^^^




yea man, if you have some specific questions, i'm not trying to sling a bunch of seemingly unrelated mud at RP to prove just this one point. If you were to ask specific questions, that would help me quite a bit.


Here's the only question i've asked of you so far...

Why are the words of Ron Paul, in this particular speech, deemed as "B.s."??

That's all i've been asking, all along. You've been dodging it, imo.




Sorry, I used the quote function, and now I'm not sure which part of my post you were addressing. The argument that I'm advancing, or the areas of contention between myself and RP in this regard?

this is the quote from you that i responded to "Are we being prepped for a Ntl Guard takeover? Quite possibly, certainly there is a significant degree of popular support for such a thing, even around here. At least, I consider this to be a much greater likelihood than the Chinese ever doing so."


I'm not saying your wrong, im' saying i'm not just going to take your word for it. You have failed to prove ron pauls words as "b.s."... you have only proved that you personally feel this way.




I'm sticking to the premise that RP signed-off on this one, 'cuz imo it would really suck if he didn't. It's just my opinion though, don't make too much of it as it really isn't very important.

how did ron paul sign off? Please be more specific about where he is at fault in this speech....

[A. Havnes]

That's the awesome thing about Dr. Paul - he's not afraid to tell the truth even when it hurts, even when it's not popular. I wish everyone would heed his words, but it's still easier to bury our heads in the sand.

[constituent]

Here's the only question i've asked of you so far...

Why are the words of Ron Paul, in this particular speech, deemed as "B.s."??

That's all i've been asking, all along. You've been dodging it, imo.

All of my posts in this thread have answered this very question. I'm not certain how to go about making it more clear to you. Why do I think it is B.S.? Perhaps it would be easier to go through the TST column line by line and filet it for you... There are, however, more important things to do.



I'm not saying your wrong, im' saying i'm not just going to take your word for it. You have failed to prove ron pauls words as "b.s."... you have only proved that you personally feel this way.

Then take libertyeagle's word for it...

(will return shortly w/ quote)



how did ron paul sign off?

I meant "sign-off" as the idiomatic expression that conveys the notion of nodding approval rather than actually doing.



Please be more specific about where he is at fault in this speech....

If nothing else, having now expanded on my original post a little bit, I recommend re-reading it for clarity. I believe I have outlined exactly where he is at fault. If nothing else, maybe i'll do a "thread summary."

Right now I'm being harassed to vacuum the floors... with consequences much greater than those associated w/ putting you off a little while longer.

..but in the meanwhile, re-read and reconsider.

[constituent]

briefly, when I talk about the "flag" issue, it is in reference to the oft mentioned "immigrants flying their flag in our country" propaganda that is so prevalent in this circle these days.

here is a prime example, (thx l.e.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/smp2010/SOS/SOS%20Maywood/IMG_5291sm.jpg


Like I said, predictive programming. These little pieces fit together to form a larger picture. Just think about it for a little while.

[ClayTrainor]

All of my posts in this thread have answered this very question.


I STRONGLY disagree with this statement



I'm not certain how to go about making it more clear to you.


By actually answering the question, directly... rather than dodging it. I am losing faith in this post already...



Why do I think it is B.S.? Perhaps it would be easier to go through the TST column line by line and filet it for you... There are, however, more important things to do.


another way of saying "I won't answer the question for you"



Then take libertyeagle's word for it...

(will return shortly w/ quote)


Patiently waiting... i'm still not even sure what point your trying to prove. can't get an answer to a simple question.

Is she going to answer it for you?



I meant "sign-off" as the idiomatic expression that conveys the notion of nodding approval rather than actually doing.


understood...although i'm still not sure what you're talking about.

From my last post i said, "Please be more specific about where he is at fault in this speech....", and i guess you rejected this request.




If nothing else, having now expanded on my original post a little bit, I recommend re-reading it for clarity.


I will re-read for you, but i'm quite confident in my reading and comprehension skills.



I believe I have outlined exactly where he is at fault. If nothing else, maybe i'll do a "thread summary."

Yea... do a thread summary, because, in my opinion you have failed misreably to answer the only question i have asked.



Right now I'm being harassed to vacuum the floors... with consequences much greater than those associated w/ putting you off a little while longer.

..but in the meanwhile, re-read and reconsider.

No worries... i have some shit to do today as well. I will re-read, and let you know if i change my mind. :)

Perhaps you should re-read my posts as well... it doesn't appear that you understand what i'm asking of you.

I mean no hostility if it seems that way... i do feel you are dodging my simple questions.

[ClayTrainor]

briefly, when I talk about the "flag" issue, it is in reference to the oft mentioned "immigrants flying their flag in our country" propaganda that is so prevalent in this circle these days.


This is part of the answer i was looking for. Thank you...



here is a prime example, (thx l.e.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/smp2010/SOS/SOS%20Maywood/IMG_5291sm.jpg



Like I said, predictive programming. These little pieces fit together to form a larger picture. Just think about it for a little while.


My original question still stands.

"Why is Ron Paul's speech b.s.?"

I'll admit that I flatout don't get the connection you're trying to make here.

Ron Pauls speech was about imagining foreign nations like China and Russia occupying US Land, and oppressing the people. He was trying to open up the minds of whoever he was speaking to... What about this is "predictive programming"?

[Danke]

Does Texas have WMDs? I think they might, can't be too careful. Don't want the Alamo to be another safe haven as a terrorist training camp again.