Open Borders Terrorist Tries to Murder Sheriff Joe Arpaio

[Chosen]

A Pro-Open Borders Terrorist was arrested at a recent protest against Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Sheriff Arpaio has been enforcing immigration law and in the process created many enemies in the authoritarian collectivist community. After illegal aliens were denied amnesty in 2006, and again in 2008 the illegal aliens from Mexico and South America became more militant and violent. Their collectivist supporters in the US took to more desperate measures such as online banning, restricting debate on illegal immigration and in the media. Many Hispanics in the US favor illegal immigration from Mexico because of racial and ethnic ties. Both legal and illegal immigrants support the ethnic nationalist socialist agenda of the open borders/global corporatist community.

This arrest just underscores the violent and terrorist nature of illegal aliens and their supporters. They have a tendency to feel entitled to force American citizens to their collectivist demand via authoritarian measures, like violence.

Many pro-open borders advocates claim that illegal aliens are peaceful, law abiding citizens doing the jobs Americans won't do. Please see the video links at the bottom of this post for video evidence of the very oppositte.

This "protestor" had a loaded 9mm, a black ski mask and a sign which read : "Death to Arpaio equals freedom for America"

Just like their Al-Queada Brothers, the open borders advocates (which include McCain, Lindsey Graham and the entire Democratic Party) and authoritarian collectivist have been trying to silence opposition to illegal immigration by whatever means.

You haven't seen this on the MSM because of the new soon to be released Amnesty push.
Racist Congressman (D) Luis Gutierrez is set to launch a new Amnesty Tour for Illegal Aliens.
http://www.projo.com/news/content/IMMIGRATION_CAMPAIGN_02-28-09_TBDG198_v14.378892c.html

TERRORIST ARTICLE LINK:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/03/01/20090301sheriffthreat0301-ON.html

ARTICLE EXCERPT:

...

The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office is investigating a possible death threat against Sheriff Joe Arpaio that authorities said was written on a demonstrator's sign.

At about 9:30 a.m. Saturday,Veterans Affairs police spotted an unidentified man wearing a black ski mask, a black law enforcement-style raid T-shirt and rubber surgical gloves preparing to march Saturday in a protest against Arpaio and his immigration enforcement, said Deputy Doug Matteson, a sheriff's spokesman.


The man was carrying a loaded Glock semi-automatic pistol handcuffs, and a sign with the statement: "Death to Arpaio equals freedom for America," Matteson said.

Veterans Affairs officers saw the man attempt to park in the hospital lot at 650 E. Indian School Road and blocked him.

Matteson said the protestor didn't cooperate, so police confronted him and he fought with them.

The unidentified protestor was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and possession of a concealed firearm. He was not taken to jail.

Officers confiscated the man's pistol, a mace canister filled with dye and a money clip that appeared to be a Los Angeles Police Department badge at first glance, Matteson said.

Sheriff's officials could not provide the man's name or other identifying information Sunday but Matteson said deputies were continuing to investigate the threat...
CONT

Americans are the most giving and loving people. In no other place on the planet would anyone put up with what Americans have to endure from illegal aliens. Many of the socialist left try to paint illegals as victims, juts because they cannot get what they want from a country in which they are illegally residing, after committing a felony!

I have actually heard this phrase uttered about by an illegal alien protester carrying a protest sign:


"naw pero, this is aztlans, pero the whites go back to europe and shit. fuckin they are the racists for este takes aztlan from us. This is our lands and shit."

The following links are provided to demonstrate how illegal aliens from Mexico actually behave. If you listen to the far left collectivists you would think they are angels, mini-Christ victims who are owed something because of their martyrdom. But thanks to the magic of video we know much different.

Here are some facts about Mexico and illegal aliens from Mexico in their own words and images:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIW-BZ8oLrk

Here are some LEGAL and Illegals who support Open Borders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mitptd2-tV4

Legal and Illegal High School Students showing their respect for the American Flag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--BY0Lc92KU

La Raza Unida Holmes. Illegals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeTD3cNBnBU


Great Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TMwLq8tMfs

Many Illegal Aliens are in our Armed Forces:
LINK (http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_030104_Illegals,00.html?ESRC= dod.nl)

[Chosen]

bump

[UnReconstructed]

you reap what you sow

[qh4dotcom]

Arpaio constantly violates the 8th amendment of the Constitution...no cruel and unusual punishment...like feeding the prisoners with outdated and oxidized green bologna and limiting meals to twice daily. He constantly brags that it costs him 15 cents a meal....keeping prisoners in tent cities exposing them to 110+ F hot weather, reinstituting chain gangs, etc.

[Time for Change]

Arpaio constantly violates the 8th amendment of the Constitution...no cruel and unusual punishment...like feeding the prisoners with outdated and oxidized green bologna and limiting meals to twice daily. He constantly brags that it costs him 15 cents a meal....keeping prisoners in tent cities exposing them to 110+ F hot weather, reinstituting chain gangs, etc.

I agree with the sheriff's tactics.
I am sick of my tax dollars being used to ensure that the criminal element of this nation have a great paid getaway with cable tv and air conditioned comfort.
"No work, free laundry service, 3 hots and a cot in the a/c"

If you want to curb the crime, make prison / jail an undesirable place to be...maybe they will think twice before joining the ranks of "Repeat Offender"

I am not saying that I agree with the reasons a person can be put in jail, I am pissed at the cost of running the resort.

[Chosen]

Arpaio constantly violates the 8th amendment of the Constitution...no cruel and unusual punishment...like feeding the prisoners with outdated and oxidized green bologna and limiting meals to twice daily. He constantly brags that it costs him 15 cents a meal....keeping prisoners in tent cities exposing them to 110+ F hot weather, reinstituting chain gangs, etc.Bullshit.

You far left authoritarian collectivists have tried everything to prevent him from enforcing the law. You are just reading off the blog of some dumbshit British pillowbiter who got arrested for selling meth, who is now claiming the food was rancid since he is out.

The terrorist who wanted to kill him seems to agree with you. You are both of the same ilk.

[Minarchy4Sale]

Heres the thing. I agree that Sherrifs need to enforce the law. I disagree that people who are here without permission have any kind of constitutional rights.

So yeah, Arpaio can feed old bologna to illegals.

No, Arpaio shouldnt be feeding old bologna to US citizens. US citizens should not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Locking people who are merely SUSPECTED of crime up in desert tents without proper food or water is punishment. You cant technically punish US citizens until they are found guilty in a court of law.

[Chosen]

The claims you are making are not true. He doesn't commit any violations of the Constitution. The supreme court has found this to be true.

[AuH20]

Arpaio constantly violates the 8th amendment of the Constitution...no cruel and unusual punishment...like feeding the prisoners with outdated and oxidized green bologna and limiting meals to twice daily. He constantly brags that it costs him 15 cents a meal....keeping prisoners in tent cities exposing them to 110+ F hot weather, reinstituting chain gangs, etc.


When I think of cruel and unusual punishment, I think of someone being drawn and quartered. You're complaining about bologna and work camps? :confused::D

[qh4dotcom]

The claims you are making are not true. He doesn't commit any violations of the Constitution. The supreme court has found this to be true.

I got all those facts from Wikipedia...the way he treats his prisoners sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio


Family members of inmates who have died or been injured in jail custody have filed lawsuits against the sheriff’s office. Maricopa County has paid more than $43 million in settlement claims during Arpaio's tenure.

[qh4dotcom]

I agree with the sheriff's tactics.
I am sick of my tax dollars being used to ensure that the criminal element of this nation have a great paid getaway with cable tv and air conditioned comfort.
"No work, free laundry service, 3 hots and a cot in the a/c"

If you want to curb the crime, make prison / jail an undesirable place to be...maybe they will think twice before joining the ranks of "Repeat Offender"

I am not saying that I agree with the reasons a person can be put in jail, I am pissed at the cost of running the resort.


If you want less of your tax dollars being wasted, then tell the state of Arizona and Arpaio to release all his pot smokers or release them sooner...that will save millions in prison costs.

I never said Arpaio's jails should be luxurious...but they shouldn't be run like Guantanamo.

[Zuras]

Arpaio constantly violates the 8th amendment of the Constitution...no cruel and unusual punishment...like feeding the prisoners with outdated and oxidized green bologna and limiting meals to twice daily. He constantly brags that it costs him 15 cents a meal....keeping prisoners in tent cities exposing them to 110+ F hot weather, reinstituting chain gangs, etc.

Poor food is cruel and unusual punishment? Wow. If that's the case being forced to listen to whatever contorted "logic" lead you to such a ridiculous conclusion should qualify as a class A felony.

You were one of those kids who threatened to call the cops on their parents for spanking your unruly ass, weren't you?

[Danke]

Wasn't Joe seen with a male prostitute a couple of years back?

[qh4dotcom]

Poor food is cruel and unusual punishment? Wow. If that's the case being forced to listen to whatever contorted "logic" lead you to such a ridiculous conclusion should qualify as a class A felony.

You were one of those kids who threatened to call the cops on their parents for spanking your unruly ass, weren't you?

Rotten, expired food that you can get sick from, yes that is cruel and unusual punishment...low quality food no.

Besides the food, if there was no cruel and unusual punishment going on at Arpaio's jails, then Maricopa County wouldn't have had to pay out $43 million in settlements to family members whose jailed relatives died or were injured at Arpaio's jails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio


Family members of inmates who have died or been injured in jail custody have filed lawsuits against the sheriff’s office. Maricopa County has paid more than $43 million in settlement claims during Arpaio's tenure.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Joe is a douche and a prime example of out of control law enforcement.

Dog Day Afternoon (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-08-05/news/dog-day-afternoon/full)

[Time for Change]

Rotten, expired food that you can get sick from, yes that is cruel and unusual punishment...low quality food no.

Besides the food, if there was no cruel and unusual punishment going on at Arpaio's jails, then Maricopa County wouldn't have had to pay out $43 million in settlements to family members whose jailed relatives died or were injured at Arpaio's jails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio
Is there PROOF of expired food being served or is it simply rumor and speculation?
Are we going on the word of the convict, you know, the one who is invariably innocent and claiming wrong doing?

Winning a court case, in this day and age, means very little.
Get yourself a bleeding heart candy ass jury and a big dramatic sob story, right or wrong, and you win.

Is it possible that a person will die in prison if they are poor health to begin with?
Would living in a/c with cable TV and all the amenities have saved that person's life?
Should we pay more tax dollars to ensure that the convicts don't die so they can rob, rape or murder another day?

The food is NOT supposed be tasty in jail...deal with it...basic nutrition and that's it. :rolleyes:

It is not as if these people were picked up and had this miraculous discovery...
"That is illegal? I didn't know." :eek:

If having pot is illegal, regardless of whether or not it should be, and you don't like it...work to change the law...it is currently illegal and everybody knows that fact.
There is a known risk in the consumption, distribution and possession of it.
If you think that is wrong, use your noodle and fight to change the law...

Nevertheless, for now, it is illegal and the people using it know full well the risk associated with it, so that argument is invalid as far as I am concerned.

Not willing to do the time, don't do the crime. :mad:
It is that fucking simple.

The punishment is NOT cruel and unusual.
The pioneers lived that way and survived…a/c is a modern invention.

[torchbearer]

Live by the gun, die by the gun.

[driller80545]

Arpaio has a lot of dues to pay. Karma!

[Freedom 4 all]

Not that I wish death on anyone, but frankly I have a lot more sympathy for Joe's victims. Work camps ARE slavery and there should be some kind of standards for decent nutrition. It's quite the opposite of authoritarian to oppose Joe's gulag tactics.

[Time for Change]

Prisoners shouldn't work to support themselves just like the rest of us?

[torchbearer]

Prisoners shouldn't work to support themselves just like the rest of us?

fine line between being made a slave of the state and being removed from society because you are a threat to the community.

[qh4dotcom]

Is there PROOF of expired food being served or is it simply rumor and speculation?
Are we going on the word of the convict, you know, the one who is invariably innocent and claiming wrong doing?

Winning a court case, in this day and age, means very little.
Get yourself a bleeding heart candy ass jury and a big dramatic sob story, right or wrong, and you win.

Is it possible that a person will die in prison if they are poor health to begin with?
Would living in a/c with cable TV and all the amenities have saved that person's life?
Should we pay more tax dollars to ensure that the convicts don't die so they can rob, rape or murder another day?

The food is NOT supposed be tasty in jail...deal with it...basic nutrition and that's it. :rolleyes:

It is not as if these people were picked up and had this miraculous discovery...
"That is illegal? I didn't know." :eek:

If having pot is illegal, regardless of whether or not it should be, and you don't like it...work to change the law...it is currently illegal and everybody knows that fact.
There is a known risk in the consumption, distribution and possession of it.
If you think that is wrong, use your noodle and fight to change the law...

Nevertheless, for now, it is illegal and the people using it know full well the risk associated with it, so that argument is invalid as far as I am concerned.

Not willing to do the time, don't do the crime. :mad:
It is that fucking simple.

The punishment is NOT cruel and unusual.
The pioneers lived that way and survived…a/c is a modern invention.

Sure there is proof...the bologna Arpaio serves is outdated, green and oxidized according to Wikipedia...would you eat that? I agree about the basic nutrition.

If prisoners are fainting or experiencing dehydration from the extreme heat then not giving them water or a/c is cruel and unusual punishment.

I never said there has to be TV or the jails should be luxurious.

[qh4dotcom]

Prisoners shouldn't work to support themselves just like the rest of us?

Nobody is forcing you to work...if you work it's because you were encouraged to work or you simply like to work.

Prisoners should be ENCOURAGED to work, not FORCED to work. Forced work IS slavery.

[akihabro]

This thread totally veered off course. Thanks for the videos. You'd think these radical communists would help out their relatives/friends who live in Mexico instead of taking over the Southwest U.S. Living standards are poor in Mexico and a majority of highly Mexican neighborhoods in L.A metro area are run down as well.
The debate about jail is that its not suppose to be nice. People leave there more connected and a high percentage return.
We have a problem with overcrowding in the California prison system. Would it hurt to train them in construction and have prisoners build a few more prisons?

[Chosen]

Glenn Beck talks with Arpaio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INrY1diilSo

A public defender in Maricopa County, read Democrat ally of Dem Sheriff who ran against Arpaio, sponsored and organized a racist ethnic nationalist socialist protest where the beat and burned an effigy of him. Use of public office to encourage violence is authoritarian. She should be crucified for this. A person who defends criminals getting people to attack him and we wonder why there is violence? Let's be clear, if the people she was inciting were not inherently violent in the first place this wouldn't occur.


sabel Garcia is a Deputy Pima County Public Defender. She is also co-chair of the Coalicion de Derechos Humanos, an alleged border rights group which is actually a group specializing in helping illegals cross the border, "Reconquista" and Aztlan and indulging in violence against those who disagree with them. While she is an attorney sworn to uphold the law, she deliberately breaks it and flaunts her conflicts of interest with impunity from Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckleberry (520/740-8661; Chuckelberry@co.pima.az.us; chh@pima.gov).

Tucson is a relatively laid back town. We pretty much let people be, and if they want to protest something, well, as long as it's peaceful, we let them protest. That doesn't mean there won't be a counter protest, but generally both sides are cool about having their voices heard and doing it within the confines of the law.

Unless Garcia is involved. Protests involving Garcia often involve escalating hate and walk very closely to the edge of breaking the law. She is responsible for encouraging high school students to leave their classrooms and protest police action on campus (when an illegal was discovered after being arrested for allegedly possessing drugs and his family was deported), responsible for encouraging violence against the police, influencing politicians through intimidation, encouraging the La Raza hate studies and the attendant protest when the State School Superintendant spoke against funding them with taxpayer dollars--in short, she is complete bad news.

She is the Mexican equivalent of Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan. Worse, while those three racist hate mongers are bad news, she also encourages the overthrow--violently--of the legitimate United States Government through Derechos.

Yet, Huckelberry refuses to discipline her. Why? Allegedly, she is engaging in these activities on her own time.

Chuck, we have news for you.

As an attorney, Isabel Garcia is on duty 24/7. As a County Attorney, she is a representative of the public 24/7. And her salary (as well as yours) is paid for by the LEGAL taxpayers of this county.

Now, how did Garcia cross the line?

She showed up with her gang of racist hate mongers to Sheriff Joe's book signing. Okay, they have a right to protest the fact he is doing his job and enforcing the law of the land.

They don't have a right to incite a riot, contribute to the delinquency of minors, and engage in blatant violence, encouraging said minors to engage in violence as well.

They brought along a pinata (effigy) of Sheriff Joe. While Garcia stood on the sidelines, she encouraged the minors to beat the pinata to a pulp, severing the head of it in the process. She then took the head and delightedly paraded around the parking lot, holding the head aloft. Against a lawfully elected law enforcement officer.


http://lh3.ggpht.com/Kateri62061/SHkT8vNPhfI/AAAAAAAACX4/n0jDnRmDjuY/%5BUNSET%5D.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/Kateri62061/SHkUqSKnzhI/AAAAAAAACYA/IwnqncVb2bY/%5BUNSET%5D.jpg

The outrage over Garcia's action has been long in coming, but it's time she was put out of our misery. She has committed crimes against the county; she has committed crimes against fellow law enforcement officers; she has committed crimes against this country. It is time. She has to go--and she has to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for her activities.

Below is the letter I wrote to Huckelberry; I encourage everyone to copy it and use it. It is because of people like Garcia we have the problems with illegals we have.



Dear Mr. Huckleberry:

I am part of the legal community in Tucson. I am sick to death of the antics of Isabel Garcia. Her actions the night of Thursday, July 10, 2008, at the Borders Book Store, crossed the line.

My taxes are paying her salary and as her employer, I want her fired. There is a fine line between the right of public protest--PEACEFUL PROTEST--and Incite to Riot. She has crossed that line, seemingly with impunity from you, many times.

You state nothing can be done because she does these things in her own time. I beg to differ. She is a public employee and is held to a higher standard of behavior than an ordinary citizen. She can be fired for the mere APPEARANCE of POSSIBLE wrongdoing as a public employee, even on her own time.

Further, according to Rule 8.4 of the Model Rules of Professional Conduct (Maintaining the Integrity of the Profession):

It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:

(a) violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another;

(b) commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;

(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

(d) engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice;

(e) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official or to achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or

(f) knowingly assist a judge or judicial officer in conduct that is a violation of applicable rules of judicial conduct or other law.

Miss Garcia blatantly violates Rule 8.4 (specifically sections a, b, d, e), and her incite to riot by her activities the night of Thursday, July 10 2008, in which she encouraged onlookers to violently assault an effigy of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, which was caught on video (including her holding the "severed head" of Arpaio aloft), is ample proof of that violation.

She is in violation of Rule 41, Ariz. R. Civ. P., which states:

The duties and obligations of members shall be:

(a) Those prescribed by the Arizona Rules of Professional Conduct adopted as rule 42 of these rules.

(b) To support the constitution and the laws of the United States and of this state.
TEXT (c)
(c) To maintain the respect due to courts of justice and judicial officers.

(d) To counsel or maintain no other action, proceeding or defense than those which appear to him legal and just, excepting the defense of a person charged with a public offense.

(e) To employ for the purpose of maintaining causes confided to him such means only as are consistent with truth, and never seek to mislead the judges by any artifice or false statement of fact or law.

(f) To maintain inviolate the confidences and preserve the secrets of a client.

(g) To abstain from all offensive personality and to advance no fact prejudicial to the honor or reputation of a party or a witness unless required by the justice of the cause with which he is charged.

(h) Not to encourage either the commencement or continuation of an action or proceeding from any corrupt motive of passion or interest, and never to reject for any consideration personal to himself the cause of the defenseless or oppressed.

She is in further violation of Federal Statute U.S. Code, Title 8, Section 1325, which states in relevant part:

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:

* assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.

Further: (this part would authorize the the civilian arrest that is authorized by the State of Arizona)

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is “no extant federal limitation” on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws.

This is not the first time Garcia has blatantly violated the law, apparently with your approval. As a member of the law enforcement community herself, she positions herself both as a US citizen (which of course she is) but also as someone who wishes to overthrow the legal boundaries of the United States with her ongoing and increasingly violent promotion of Aztlan.

Her activities ARE becoming increasingly violent; this is a significant warning sign, a "red flag" of an unstable mental acuity, a "red flag" used by prison psychologists to evaluate the stability, to project the escalation of violent offenders and a benchmark used to profile violent offenders (such as sex offenders and serial killers). Due to this public exhibition of her increasing instability, she needs to be removed from office. By her very actions of delighting in the beating and beheading of an effigy figure, she shows a distinct lack of professional judgment. Her sanity is questionable at this stage.

By allowing her to continue her post as a Deputy Pima County Defender, you are allowing her to violate state and federal laws. You are allowing her to violate the oaths she took in her chosen profession to uphold the laws. You are allowing her to escalate her personal agenda at the expense of taxpayers. You are allowing her to continue to flaunt her conflict of interest as an attorney of the United States while promoting the overthrow of the United States.

You state these activities take place during her personal time. I'm sorry, but the county works a standard 8-5, Monday through Friday schedule. She is often participating in riots and protests during those times. Whether or not she has this time as sick or vacation time, she is still paid for her time to incite riots, promote violence, promote illegal activity, etc. on county time at taxpayer expense.

This MUST end and it must end now. The legal citizens of this county are fed up with Isabel Garcia's nonsense and we are fed up with you shielding her. Get rid of her. This story is already going viral, and it will soon be nationwide news. Your political career is in the sling with hers and, as previously stated, the LEGAL, TAXPAYING citizens are fed up. We will not hesitate to vote you out of office and have her fired by your successor if you do not do it yourself. And, I am filing a formal complaint with the State Bar of Arizona, including a copy of this letter, regarding Garcia and her activities. What Garcia did amounted to committing a hate crime. Just because she is Mexican and Arpaio is White is no excuse--hate crime is hate crime. I demand she be prosecuted appropriately, under the federal hate crime laws.

Do the right thing by your employers–Pima County Taxpayers–and remove this person from the payroll. Immediately, if not sooner.

Sincerely,
Kateri E. Jordan, PLS, PNPA

PS...Did I happen to mention I'm part of a coalition of bloggers? We plan to get this out and HELP it go "viral". We ARE fed up.


The quicker we get people like Garcia out of office, and those who cover for them, such as Huckelberry, the quicker we can see some progress on the illegal issue.

Had a white person done what Garcia did, the news would have been splashed across the headlines for days as a hate crime. As it is, it's being buried. Isabel Garcia committed a hate crime. Her sanity is questionable. Her judgment is questionable.

Remove her from office. Arrest her. Prosecute her. Now. Hang her.
http://www.fox11az.com/video/newsvideo-index.html?nvid=262339

[NYgs23]

Some libertarians don't seem too fond of Sheriff Arpaio..

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024509.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/armentano-p7.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w72.html


Excerpt:


Most – actually, nearly all – Arizonans concerned about unchecked immigration are entirely innocent of racial prejudice. A handful are entirely consumed by it. And the state's most successful politician has ruthlessly capitalized on the issue as a way to deflect public attention from his spectacular incompetence and unvarnished corruption, and the cost those attributes have imposed on the taxpayers. The politician in question is Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who would likely be in prison were it not for a favor done long ago by Janet Napolitano.

As the elected head of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office (MCSO), Arpaio has cultivated a media image as "America's Toughest Sheriff." He has made himself famous by creating and maintaining a county detention system in which various forms of petty belittlement – such as forcing male inmates to wear pink underwear and eat green bologna – are inflicted on the inmates, most of whom have yet to be convicted of an actual crime.

Both male and female detainees are forced to work on chain gangs, and those consigned to Arpaio's "Tent City" are deliberately exposed to extremes of climate, which in Arizona can mean temperatures in excess of 110 degrees. (Arpaio seems to take a perverse pleasure in making life especially difficult for female inmates: Until a federal lawsuit forced him to stop, he maintained a jail netcam broadcasting female detainees using the toilet. That fact provides a certain nauseating subtext to Arpaio's publicly expressed desire to have authorities in L.A. extradite Paris Hilton to Arizona to serve out her jail term for DUI-related offenses.)

During the past decade, while Arpaio has labored to make himself a household name, people have been dying in the custody of his deputies. Lawsuits resulting from the death of inmates at the hands of Arpaio's brown-shirted homeboys have cost the county more than $13 million in legal settlements, and a five-fold increase in insurance premiums...

Personally, I'd be extremely suspicious of anyone labeling himself "America's toughest sheriff," especially since I don't accept the notion of an enforced security monopoly in the first place

[Maverick]

On the "terrorist attempted murderer:" Yes, not the right way to go about making a statement. If you hold a sign advocating the death of a public official and carry a weapon with you, then odds are pretty good that LEOs are going to fuck you up.

Here's the part I would highlight from the article though:


The unidentified protestor was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and possession of a concealed firearm. He was not taken to jail.

You'd think they'd charge him with something a little more serious if he's as bad a dude as Chosen is implying. They didn't even fucking take him to jail.

On the prisons: I've never really cared about the issue of how Joe treats his prisoners. Most of the stories I've heard sound fairly benign, and I have no problem with prisoners working to help pay off their stay. However, if the stories of injury or death are true, then that's obviously not ok if that's happening because of the negligence or abuse of the prison staff.

On "good ol' put-a-boot-in-yer-ass illegal-busting Joe:" The guy has received a lot of criticism, some just and some unjust, about his tactics. I'm sure he's garnered a lot of ire from some communities simply from the legitimate execution of his duties. However, the man (and his department) has crossed the line into illegitimate tactics and unconstitutional abuses of power on more than one occasion. I made a post awhile back (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=143827) with a story about Joe that showed that his department was clearly violating the 4th Amendment. You cannot walk up to people on the street, demand that they provide you ID, and arrest them if they refuse. There is no legal precedent that says that I have to present my ID to a cop upon demand if I'm walking down the street, nor should there be. I don't want to live in "Where are you going? Papers, please" East Germany.

[Chosen]

Some libertarians don't seem too fond of Sheriff Arpaio..

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024509.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/armentano-p7.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w72.html


Excerpt:



Personally, I'd be extremely suspicious of anyone labeling himself "America's toughest sheriff," especially since I don't accept the notion of an enforced security monopoly in the first place
Well of course they are. There is a Libertarian Sherrif who always runs against him and only gets 4.7% of the vote. As always, Libertarians turn out to be opportunists and spin the residue of real world political confrontations to proclaim Libertarian values. It never really works, it is really that the Libertarians see a chance here. But as always, it won't work and they will land in the realm of epic fail. Why? Because they do not respect the rule of law.

[Chosen]

On the "terrorist attempted murderer:" Yes, not the right way to go about making a statement. If you hold a sign advocating the death of a public official and carry a weapon with you, then odds are pretty good that LEOs are going to fuck you up.

Here's the part I would highlight from the article though:



You'd think they'd charge him with something a little more serious if he's as bad a dude as Chosen is implying. They didn't even fucking take him to jail.

On the prisons: I've never really cared about the issue of how Joe treats his prisoners. Most of the stories I've heard sound fairly benign, and I have no problem with prisoners working to help pay off their stay. However, if the stories of injury or death are true, then that's obviously not ok if that's happening because of the negligence or abuse of the prison staff.

On "good ol' put-a-boot-in-yer-ass illegal-busting Joe:" The guy has received a lot of criticism, some just and some unjust, about his tactics. I'm sure he's garnered a lot of ire from some communities simply from the legitimate execution of his duties. However, the man (and his department) has crossed the line into illegitimate tactics and unconstitutional abuses of power on more than one occasion. I made a post awhile back (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=143827) with a story about Joe that showed that his department was clearly violating the 4th Amendment. You cannot walk up to people on the street, demand that they provide you ID, and arrest them if they refuse. There is no legal precedent that says that I have to present my ID to a cop upon demand if I'm walking down the street, nor should there be. I don't want to live in "Where are you going? Papers, please" East Germany.

I would highlight that as well!

This is what folks are constantly complaining about. How someone, based on ethnic or political privilege can be above the law. If a white guy showed up to an anti-holder rally with a sign that read death to Holder equals freedom for America and he had a black ski mask and loaded handgun with handcuffs, what do you think would have happened? This is the issue.

This is slightly off topic for the OP, but consider for a second the fraud that was the Lacrosse trial in NC. We all experienced the never ending drama surrounding this issue and the racial implications that were made. Come to find out she was lying, the prosecutor was lying. All went overboard to give her special treatment because of her race and they did not levy charges against her for fraud and attempting to ruin peples life because of their race (which she was exploiting). Now compare it to the coverage of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxBQuaEwmg

This is why there is an issue with the rule of law.

[Freedom 4 all]

Relax chosen, the system is plenty racist enough against Mexicans.

[NYgs23]

Well of course they are. There is a Libertarian Sherrif who always runs against him and only gets 4.7% of the vote. As always, Libertarians turn out to be opportunists and spin the residue of real world political confrontations to proclaim Libertarian values. It never really works, it is really that the Libertarians see a chance here. But as always, it won't work and they will land in the realm of epic fail. Why? Because they do not respect the rule of law.

So why do you support Ron Paul again? Because he supports closed borders (under the current circumstances)? Reading your posts on this thread, I perceive that you've said lots of stuff that sounds like rhetoric of law n' order conservatism, but little that sounds like rhetoric of freedom. Personally, I have no concern whether a person from one arbitrary geographic area has traveled to another arbitrary geographic area, so long as they're not trespasses on private property or committing some other act of aggression. Breaking a ruling authority's arbitrary statute is not, in and of itself, aggressive.

Whence does the Law (law and order) come? From a temporal ruling authority issuing dictates, mandates, statutes, and decrees, or does it derive from Natural Order itself? In fact, the Natural Law holds that acts of aggression are always immoral. Aggression is inherent in the enforced territorial monopoly of the State. Therefore, the true Law precedes the State, and the State (as it is currently formed) breaks the Law with its very existence. Thus, I fear this sheriff and his cages more than I do some travelers.

[torchbearer]

Paul ultimately believes in open borders in a free society with no welfare state.

[Chosen]

So why do you support Ron Paul again? Because he supports closed borders (under the current circumstances)? Reading your posts on this thread, I perceive that you've said lots of stuff that sounds like rhetoric of law n' order conservatism, but little that sounds like rhetoric of freedom. Personally, I have no concern whether a person from one arbitrary geographic area has traveled to another arbitrary geographic area, so long as they're not trespasses on private property or committing some other act of aggression. Breaking a ruling authority's arbitrary statute is not, in and of itself, aggressive.

What the hell is law and order Conservatism?

You are trying to figure out a stance based on placing wule of law in antithesis to freedom?

You seem not to understand what the rule of law is and how it relates to ensuring freedom. They are not diametrically opposed. Liberty comes from sovereignty which comes from the rule of law. Conservatives believe in minimal government as a means to promote liberty and freedom and individuality. As the size of government increases, freedom and liberty decrease.

Breaking the law and violating personal property then demanding the laws be changed in order to grant amnesty for the crime is a violation of the rule of law. No nation has ever survived this and this is why you support it. It brings chaos. All far reaching and bizarre political philosophies thrive off of chaos as they see it as a vector for injecting of their platform as a solution. Hitler knew this, you guys know this.

People are protesting Arpaio because he is upholding the law.

[Chosen]

Paul ultimately believes in open borders in a free society with no welfare state.
No he does not.

Ron Paul Immigration
"We have security issues at home and our resources are running thin. Our education system is stretched, and immigration accounts for virtually all the national increase in public school enrollment in the last 2 decades. There is a worker present in 78% of immigrant households using at least one major welfare program... It’s no surprise then that often times these immigrants can afford to work for lower wages. They are subsidized by our government to do so." - Ron Paul


Birthright Citizenship

Gone, Finito, Adios! Ron Paul would end the practice of "anchor babies", "jackpot babies", birthright citizenship or whatever you want to call it.

He has personally co-sponsored 5 bills going all the way back to his first appearances on Capitol Hill in 1997 to end birthright citizenship and the practice of giving US citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.

There's no doubts on his stance on this.

"The anchor baby phenomenon has also been very problematic. Simply being born on US soil to illegal immigrant parents should not trigger automatic citizenship. This encourages many dangerous behaviors and there are many unintended consequences as a result of this blanket policy. I am against amnesty and I have introduced an amendment to the Constitution (H.J. Res 46) which will end this form of amnesty." - Ron Paul


Funding Illegal Alien Social Services

La Raza won't like Ron Paul one single bit when it comes to all the freebies that illegal aliens currently get.

Oh yes, Ron Paul would not just do away with some little programs they receive, but would take away the following current gifts they receive from US taxpayers.

1. public schooling
2. social security
3. welfare
4. free healthcare
5. food stamps
6. any other form of government assistance

In addition he voted against the "Totalization" agreement several times that would have given illegal aliens from Mexico US Social Security.

"Right now we are subsidizing a lot of illegal immigration with our robust social programs and it is an outrage that instead of coming to the United States as a land of opportunity, many come for the security guaranteed by government forced transfer payments through our welfare system. I have opposed giving federal assistance to illegal immigrants and have introduced legislation that ends this practice. In the last major House-passed immigration bill I attempted to introduce an amendment that would make illegal immigrants ineligible for any federal assistance." - Ron Paul


Sanctuary Policies

Goodbye to funding for states and cities using sanctuary policies.

Ron Paul has voted to deny federal funding to states that won't work and share information with federal immigration agencies. Voted to deny highway funding to states that issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Remember these are actual votes, not just a lot of talk about it. The vote against highway funding was in 2003, long before presidential campaigns were forcing people like Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee to play some game with immigration.


Border Security And Local Enforcement

Ron Paul voted for the border fence. He has also voted several times for state and local law enforcment to be allowed to help enforce immigration law. The one thing he has voted against time and again is putting troops on the border. He has however voted for bills to increase the Border Patrol.

"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul


Workplace Verification And Free Trade

Free trade affects immigration and Ron Paul is against it firmly. He voted against CFTA (Chile Free trade Agreement), SFTA (Singapore Free trade Agreement) and CAFTA (Central American Free trade Agreement). He also voted to prevent immigration related items to be included in Free Trade Agreements. Some sneaky people were trying to include special country related immigration allowances in these agreements as part of the deal.

Where Paul is wobbly is on workplace enforcement. He voted against the Basic Pilot Program employment verification system in 2003, but then voted in favor of HR 4437 in 2005, which included the Basic Pilot Program in it. He also voted against funding the REAL ID Act and to not tie a driver's license expiration date to a visa expiration date. From what I've seen and read this all seems to have something to do with his stance on privacy rights, not the opposition to making sure workers are legal. I'd like to ask him what his proposal for verifying workers is if he doesn't agree with E-VERIFY, which is what Basic Pilot is now known as.


Matricula Consular And Other Non-Verified Foreign Documents

Ron Paul has stood firmly against "ID Cards" issued by Consulates like the Matricula Consular issued by Mexican Consulates throughout the US. Paul has voted against their acceptance by financial institutions as well as against their acceptance by federal agencies and authorities.


Foreign Workers

Another small strike against Paul is his voting in favor of doubling high tech worker H1-B visas in 1998. In that same year he also voted against a bill that would have required that businesses ensure that they've actively tried to hire an American worker before applying to have a foreign worker come here on a visa like the H1-B.

I find that to be a little shameful that he would allow for the free flow of new foreign workers that could displace Americans. However, look at the date of that vote. 1998. The dot-com bubble was just about to take off and and I was there at the time. Things were hopping and there truly was a shortage of workers at the time. I think there should have been a cliff though with the bill and it should have been up for review every other year to ensure that our tech workforce wasn't decimated like it was.


Visa Lottery

Gone...

Ron Paul has voted many times to get rid of the Visa Lottery. A worthless system that draws names out of a hat as to who comes here rather than looking at their qualifications and what they can do for our country and reasonings for coming here.


Mexican Trucks

"Rather than securing our borders, we seem to be providing more pores for illegal aliens, drug dealers, and terrorists to permeate. ... Not only that, but the anti-competitive and burdensome yoke of over-regulation of our industry at home is about to send a lot more Americans to the unemployment lines." - Ron Paul (1)


Other Items

Paul has also signed two letters directly related to immigration to the speaker of the House. The first was to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert opposing an amnesty for illegal aliens in 2000. The second was a letter to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi in 2007 from the Immigration Reform Caucus opposing the introduction of immigration legislation.

[torchbearer]

Yes he does, he has said it many times..

[torchbearer]

He has stated, that if we didn't have a welfare state and a prosperous economy, we'd be begging these people to come over here.

[Chosen]

He has stated, that if we didn't have a welfare state and a prosperous economy, we'd be begging these people to come over here.

He also supports building a border fence and putting troops on the border. What you are saying is what he has stated as the ideal result of immigration policy. It is not the method he has proposed. Read the above post, you will see where he stands and what he has voted for.

"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul

[AuH20]

He also supports building a border fence and putting troops on the border. What you are saying is what he has stated as the ideal result of immigration policy. It is not the method he has proposed. Read the above post, you will see where he stands and what he has voted for.

"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul

Ron Paul sounds like a realist.

[NYgs23]

You seem not to understand what the rule of law is and how it relates to ensuring freedom.

I explained what I believe the Rule of Law is:


Whence does the Law (law and order) come? From a temporal ruling authority issuing dictates, mandates, statutes, and decrees, or does it derive from Natural Order itself? In fact, the Natural Law holds that acts of aggression are always immoral. Aggression is inherent in the enforced territorial monopoly of the State. Therefore, the true Law precedes the State...

Thus, the Law, in the sense of the Natural Law, is not necessarily the same as the "law" in the sense of a collection of statutes issued by an arbitrary ruler.


Liberty comes from sovereignty which comes from the rule of law.

You're right in the sense that the Natural Right of Liberty comes from the sovereignty of the individual which derives from the Natural Law.


Conservatives believe in minimal government as a means to promote liberty and freedom and individuality. As the size of government increases, freedom and liberty decrease.

My focus is truly on big government versus small government; it's on aggression versus non-aggression. If a government is such that it is fully voluntary and non-aggressive, I don't care how big it is because I can opt out of it. But if a government is coercive, it doesn't matter how small it is--it's still infringing on the Natural Law.


...violating personal property...is a violation of the rule of law.

Being on someone's land without their permission violates the Law because it's trespassing. But laws against trespassing are not dependent on whether the trespasser originated on this side or that side of Rio Grande. As for the State, it doesn't legitimately own most of its property (it annexed it, pilfered it through eminent domain, purchased it with tax plunder, etc.), and even if it did, it would still only have power over it's own property. It would have no right to kick a Mexican off of the land of an American, if the American was allowing the Mexican to be there.


No nation has ever survived this and this is why you support it...Hitler knew this, you guys know this.

Hitler? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)

[torchbearer]

He also supports building a border fence and putting troops on the border. What you are saying is what he has stated as the ideal result of immigration policy. It is not the method he has proposed. Read the above post, you will see where he stands and what he has voted for.

"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul

He stated in the debates that the fence was the least of the reasons for voting on the bill.
His opposition to open borders is because we have a welfare state, and these people are draining our border states.
If the only thing they could do by crossing the border is produce for our economy, then he wouldn't have a problem with it.

You need to rewatch the debates.
I have hundreds of videos you can watch on my youtube channel
You hear want you want to hear.

[Chosen]

He stated in the debates that the fence was the least of the reasons for voting on the bill.
His opposition to open borders is because we have a welfare state, and these people are draining our border states.
If the only thing they could do by crossing the border is produce for our economy, then he wouldn't have a problem with it.

You need to rewatch the debates.
I have hundreds of videos you can watch on my youtube channel
You hear want you want to hear.
You quited his own words idiot. He said in the above why he voted for it. Your argument against what he DIRECTLY stated is to watch hundreds of debate on your youtube channel?


"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul

^That is from his website.

[torchbearer]

You quited his own words idiot. He said in the above why he voted for it. Your argument against what he DIRECTLY stated is to watch hundreds of debate on your youtube channel?


"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul

^That is from his website.

I'd rather take the words spoken from his mouth.
Not everything written in Ron's name is written by Ron.

[Chosen]

I explained what I believe the Rule of Law is:



Thus, the Law, in the sense of the Natural Law, is not necessarily the same as the "law" in the sense of a collection of statutes issued by an arbitrary ruler.



You're right in the sense that the Natural Right of Liberty comes from the sovereignty of the individual which derives from the Natural Law.



My focus is truly on big government versus small government; it's on aggression versus non-aggression. If a government is such that it is fully voluntary and non-aggressive, I don't care how big it is because I can opt out of it. But if a government is coercive, it doesn't matter how small it is--it's still infringing on the Natural Law.



Being on someone's land without their permission violates the Law because it's trespassing. But laws against trespassing are not dependent on whether the trespasser originated on this side or that side of Rio Grande. As for the State, it doesn't legitimately own most of its property (it annexed it, pilfered it through eminent domain, purchased it with tax plunder, etc.), and even if it did, it would still only have power over it's own property. It would have no right to kick a Mexican off of the land of an American, if the American was allowing the Mexican to be there.



Hitler? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)
The reference to Hitler is to indicate that he exploited political upheaval in the same way you and yours are trying to do. This is a concrete reference.

RULE OF LAW
Absolute predominance or supremacy of ordinary law of the land over all citizens, no matter how powerful. First expounded by the UK law Professor A. V. Dicey in his 1885 book 'Introduction To The Study Of Law Of The Constitution,' it is based on three principles that (1) legal duties, and liability to punishment, of all citizens, is determined by the ordinary (regular) law and not by any arbitrary official fiat, government decree, or wide discretionary-powers, (2) disputes between citizens and government officials are to be determined by the ordinary courts applying ordinary law, and the (3) fundamental rights of the citizens (freedom of the person, freedom of association, freedom of speech) are rooted in the natural law, and are not dependent on any abstract constitutional concept, declaration, or guaranty.

[NYgs23]

He stated in the debates that the fence was the least of the reasons for voting on the bill.
His opposition to open borders is because we have a welfare state, and these people are draining our border states.
If the only thing they could do by crossing the border is produce for our economy, then he wouldn't have a problem with it.

I might add I somewhat disagree with Ron Paul on this issue, but I'm more radical than he is in regards to the whole notion of the State. I think each act should be judged on whether it violates the non-aggression principle; I fail to see how travel across an arbitrary border defined by arbitrary monopolies called States does that, in and of itself.

[Chosen]

I'd rather take the words spoken from his mouth.
Not everything written in Ron's name is written by Ron.
Here he is mentioning it your Christs website:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul427.html

[torchbearer]

Here he is mentioning it your Christs website:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul427.html

I'm not a disciple of Lew, but Lew does write articles in Ron's name.
Ron didn't even write his own book. He had help... probably from Lew.

[Chosen]

I might add I somewhat disagree with Ron Paul on this issue, but I'm more radical than he is in regards to the whole notion of the State. I think each act should be judged on whether it violates the non-aggression principle; I fail to see how travel across an arbitrary border defined by arbitrary monopolies called States does that, in and of itself.LOL now you disagree? After you argument to try and spin Paul with your philosophy falters? LOL

[Chosen]

I'm not a disciple of Lew, but Lew does write articles in Ron's name.
Ron didn't even write his own book. He had help... probably from Lew.But again your point is that he supports open borders. He does not.

[torchbearer]

I'm slowly going through the 1000 videos I have... so i can show you the words straight from the guys mouth.

[torchbearer]

But again your point is that he supports open borders. He does not.

He would support open borders under different circumstances is what I said.

[torchbearer]

You inability to quote me correctly in this very thread doesn't bold well for your recollection.

[Nate]

Joe is a fascist drug warrior. He is also anti-illegal immigration because he is a nationalist xenophobe not because he has the best interests of this country in mind. He looks at the border as a drug war zone. That is why he wants it closed. He does not care about your freedoms or anybody else's.
He wants to impose his ideologies on others through the use of governmental force. He uses the state to enforce his beliefs on others in a violent totalitarian method. This opens him up to violent retaliation from the totalitarians on the other side of the issues. Violent statist open borders proponents will naturally hate violent statist closed border proponents. Just like you and Joe obviously hate them. You are 2 sides of the same coin. Their violence and hatred mirrors your own. This is why you hate them so much.
You reap what you sow. Sheriff Joe deserves whatever he gets. Just like everyone else on this planet including you and me. Please do not try and paint statist authoritarians like Sheriff Joe as pro freedom and liberty. He is not and nobody here is going to fall for it.

[pcosmar]

Chosen
I agree with you on border security and National Sovereignty. I am afraid that you are banging your head against a wall.
Our elected leaders (save a very few) have NO intention of closing the border and every intention of merging the country with Mexico and Canada. You may delay it some, but they will do it anyway.

I do disagree with you about Sheriff Joe Arpaio. That man is an authoritarian asshole that cares nothing for the rights of innocent citizens.
He may get tough on criminals and that is fine., but he has and is crossing the line.

[AuH20]

Joe is a fascist drug warrior. He is also anti-illegal immigration because he is a nationalist xenophobe not because he has the best interests of this country in mind. He looks at the border as a drug war zone. That is why he wants it closed. He does not care about your freedoms or anybody else's.
He wants to impose his ideologies on others through the use of governmental force. He uses the state to enforce his beliefs on others in a violent totalitarian method. This opens him up to violent retaliation from the totalitarians on the other side of the issues. Violent statist open borders proponents will naturally hate violent statist closed border proponents. Just like you and Joe obviously hate them. You are 2 sides of the same coin. Their violence and hatred mirrors your own. This is why you hate them so much.
You reap what you sow. Sheriff Joe deserves whatever he gets. Just like everyone else on this planet including you and me. Please do not try and paint statist authoritarians like Sheriff Joe as pro freedom and liberty. He is not and nobody here is going to fall for it.

So explain to us what you'd do, as opposed to Arpaio's supposed "draconian" methods? Its very easy criticize the sheriff from afar.

[NYgs23]

LOL now you disagree? After you argument to try and spin Paul with your philosophy falters? LOL

I didn't try to "spin" Ron Paul; the most I said about him was, "...why do you support Ron Paul again? Because he supports closed borders (under the current circumstances)?" My opinions are my own. But, though I could be wrong, I think Ron Paul would agree with me that there is more concern about the possibility of a lawman violating civil liberties than being the possibility that the lawman is "too soft."

But you seem very cavalier about the power that lawmen like Sheriff Arpaio have to violate civil liberities, abuse their powers, and cause pain and suffering. Your constant references about "me and mine" even subversively trying to undermine the rule of law again sound like a person more interested in enforcing statutes and pumping nationalism than a person trying to promote liberty. You view libertarians as enemies because their less willing to use the power of the State to enforce whatever statutes you hold dear. You sound more like a supporter of Bobby Jindal or Tom Tancredo to me.

[torchbearer]

Here is his comment on the fence at 4:45: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwJKGfAWQUo
Keep listening to the 6 minute mark, he also states the other things i've put in this thread.

[NYgs23]

So explain to us what you'd do, as opposed to Arpaio's supposed "draconian" methods?

Abolishing the Office of Sheriff would be a good start. Seriously, let private security forces protect people from actual violations of their rights. You don't a monopolistic security force enforcing the dictates of a monopolistic ruling body.

[AuH20]

Abolishing the Office of Sheriff would be a good start. Seriously, let private security forces protect people from actual violations of their rights. You don't a monopolistic security force enforcing the dictates of a monopolistic ruling body.

But then what about the legal ramifications of a private security force operating in a such a capacity? It could get very expensive.

[torchbearer]

Abolishing the Office of Sheriff would be a good start. Seriously, let private security forces protect people from actual violations of their rights. You don't a monopolistic security force enforcing the dictates of a monopolistic ruling body.

mafia rule is not preferable.

[torchbearer]

But then what about the legal ramifications of a private security force operating in a such a capacity? It could get very expensive.

Wait until they start asking for 'protection' money from the people in their reach.

[Nate]

So explain to us what you'd do, as opposed to Arpaio's supposed "draconian" methods? Its very easy criticize the sheriff from afar.

Stop the welfare, free education and other government benefits like Ron Paul would like and remove minimum wage laws that provide the need for an illegal low priced work force. These are the root of the immigration problems.

Do you realize what kind of police force would be necessary to round up all the illegals in this country? It would require a MASSIVE expansion of government and would necessitate the activation of the FEMA detention camps. The only reason most of these people come over illegally instead of legally is because the immigration laws in this country are insane. I fault the politicians and bureaucrats for this royal fuck up, not the immigrants.

So excuse me if I choose to criticize a FASCIST from afar. Sheriff Joe has violated the rights and lives of countless numbers of Americans. So now I'm supposed to cheer him on because he now is being a fascist dick to foreigners now instead of American citizens? Maybe you should check which forums you're on.

[AuH20]

Stop the welfare, free education and other government benefits like Ron Paul would like and remove minimum wage laws that provide the need for an illegal low priced work force. These are the root of the immigration problems.

Do you realize what kind of police force would be necessary to round up all the illegals in this country? It would require a MASSIVE expansion of government and would necessitate the activation of the FEMA detention camps. The only reason most of these people come over illegally instead of legally is because the immigration laws in this country are insane. I fault the politicians and bureaucrats for this royal fuck up, not the immigrants.

We have immigration quotas set in place, due to the finite resources available to the state and federal governments. Do you know what this country would look like, if we had an official open borders policy for the the entire world?



So excuse me if I choose to criticize a FASCIST from afar. Sheriff Joe has violated the rights and lives of countless numbers of Americans. So now I'm supposed to cheer him on because he now is being a fascist dick to foreigners now instead of American citizens? Maybe you should check which forums you're on.

change the law and then you can call him a fascist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0oqik88NYk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TztNnvSPPVg

[Nate]

We have immigration quotas set in place, due to the finite resources available to the state and federal governments. Do you know what this country would look like, if we had an official open borders policy for the the entire world?



change the law and then you can call him a fascist.

I'll call him anything I want and neither you or anybody else is going to stop me. Don't tell me what I can or cannot say. He is a fascist drug warrior and a xenophobe. If you support him and his tactics so are you.
I never advocated an open border policy. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that our current immigration laws are insane. The state and federal bureaucrats are the problem so bringing them up is not a good excuse for why these people couldn't be let into this country in a more orderly fashion. The system is the problem not the poor hardworking people that are just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Fix the system. Don't round up millions into detention camps at the point of a gun. That is what fascists do.

[Time for Change]

Sure there is proof...the bologna Arpaio serves is outdated, green and oxidized according to Wikipedia...would you eat that? I agree about the basic nutrition.

If prisoners are fainting or experiencing dehydration from the extreme heat then not giving them water or a/c is cruel and unusual punishment.

I never said there has to be TV or the jails should be luxurious.

Is there a more credible source than wikipedia?
I have learned that much of the information on that site is questionable at best; therefore, I have little trust in wikipedia as an authoritative source.

I am relatively sure there are federal / state standards that mandate the food quality and associated inspections / reports.
Violations are public record...searchable?

Keep in mind also that most prisons and jail systems have inmates (trustees) prepare and serve the food...I cannot see these people serving garbage and living very long.

If expired food is indeed being served and can be verified 100%, then work on solving that problem, but being tough on crime is NOT necessarily a bad thing.

to another poster...
Sure, let’s get tribal security forces in place so they can fight over jurisdiction and begin demanding payment for "Protection". :rolleyes:

Man...this thread is all over the place...lol

[NYgs23]

But then what about the legal ramifications of a private security force operating in a such a capacity? It could get very expensive.

A security monopoly is less expensive than multiple competing security institutions. How can than be? That's the opposite from the way every other service works.

[driller80545]

I'll call him anything I want and neither you or anybody else is going to stop me. Don't tell me what I can or cannot say. He is a fascist drug warrior and a xenophobe. If you support him and his tactics so are you.
I never advocated an open border policy. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that our current immigration laws are insane. The state and federal bureaucrats are the problem so bringing them up is not a good excuse for why these people couldn't be let into this country in a more orderly fashion. The system is the problem not the poor hardworking people that are just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Fix the system. Don't round up millions into detention camps at the point of a gun. That is what fascists do.






Thank you!

[Zuras]

Thank you!

Indeed. It's better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt? I disagree. Open your mouths. So I too thank the honest words from a dishonest man.

[AuH20]

I'll call him anything I want and neither you or anybody else is going to stop me. Don't tell me what I can or cannot say. He is a fascist drug warrior and a xenophobe. If you support him and his tactics so are you.
I never advocated an open border policy. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that our current immigration laws are insane. The state and federal bureaucrats are the problem so bringing them up is not a good excuse for why these people couldn't be let into this country in a more orderly fashion. The system is the problem not the poor hardworking people that are just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Fix the system. Don't round up millions into detention camps at the point of a gun. That is what fascists do.

Once again, I don't understand your fixation with the word "fascist" since you use it incorrectly.

Lets examine the definition of fascist:

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.

So explain to me how Arpaio is a fascist, when he arrests and incarcerates people who exercised complete free will & knowingly broke the law, he swore an oath to enforce? Explain to me how thats deemed "autocratic and dictatorial"? Explain to me how Arpaio is acting like a fascist when when he's simply doing his job, no more & no less. Sometimes I don't know where you libertarians conjure up these fantastic boogeymen. a smalltown sheriff in the middle of nowhere is suddenly the face for the new fascionista? Funny..

[Nate]

Once again, I don't understand your fixation with the word "fascist" since you use it incorrectly.

Lets examine the definition of fascist:

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.

So explain to me how Arpaio is a fascist, when he arrests and incarcerates people who exercised complete free will & knowingly broke the law, he swore an oath to enforce? Explain to me how thats deemed "autocratic and dictatorial"? Explain to me how Arpaio is acting like a fascist when when he's simply doing his job, no more & no less. Sometimes I don't know where you libertarians conjure up these fantastic boogeymen. a smalltown sheriff in the middle of nowhere is suddenly the face for the new fascionista? Funny..

Okay. First off, don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I use the word fascist. I know exactly what fascism is. It is you who apparently are clueless and need to be educated so I guess I'm going to be the one to have to do it.

First, before I explain what Fascism is to you, Joe is not just "a small town sheriff in the middle of nowhere" he is an ex-DEA agent of 25 years. Before that he was a military policeman in France for the American government. Your catagorization of him as just "a small town sheriff in the middle of nowhere" exposes you as either uniformed and ignorant or a dishonest shill for Joe. He is a national drug war figure and a major go to guy for the media when they need a drug warrior on a segment. He does not just enforce the laws. He ACTIVELY campaigns for more laws and more police powers. He also shamelessly self promotes and shills for any nationalistic proposals that come out of Washington. If he just enforced the laws without pushing his own political agenda I couldn’t care less about him and neither would the rest of the country. Please don’t give me that shit about “he swore and oath”, he also swore an oath to protect the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. That doesn’t stop him from ripping it to shreds to crusade for his precious unconstitutional drug war.

Now on to your education. Ok, let’s examine fascism, the American system and how Joe fits into it all as a good little American fascist.
Fascism is a "right-wing" Hegelian socialist system that masquerades as a socially conservative "patriotic" movement with a "capitalist" veneer. As an economic system it is modeled after the German pattern of socialism called Zwangsvirtschaft or all around planning. It has 11 basic points.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

The US Federal Government promotes powerful and continuing nationalism.

Joe does this. He has his own radio station that broadcasts "patriotic" music. Flags and authoritarian symbols decorate him and everything in his life.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

The US Federal Government has disdain for the recognition of human rights. Unless it can use human rights as a weapon to demonize a potential victim of its imperialistic foreign policy.

Joe could care less about his prisoners.
Keeping prisoners in 110+ degree temperatures.
Giving them spoiled food.
Stun gunning of prisoners. This is torture under the Geneva conventions.
A prisoner had his neck broken by guards who were seen on camera laughing while it was happening.
Deaths that have been covered up by lost evidence or phony investigations by Joe Arpaio himself.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

The US Federal Government does this.

This is Joe to the letter. This is why he demonizes illegals, uses the war on terror to get funding and pushes the federal governments line of xenophobia and nationalism every chance he gets.

4. Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

The US Federal Government definitely has this.

This is why Joe glamorizes his military and DEA service. He also required inmates in 2001 to register with the Selective Service System. This is a VERY militaristic man. He has spent his entire adult life in statist military style organizations.

5. Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

The US Government controls the media through the FCC.

This is why Joe has a national reputation. He is a go to guy for the pro drug war propagandists. This is also why he uses deputies to intimidate reporters who are investigating Joe and his jail.

6. Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

The US Government is obsessed with national security.

Joe is VERY obsessed with national security. He uses fear ever chance he gets. Just go look at his website.

7. Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

The US government does this as well.

Joe uses religious rhetoric.

8. Partnership of public and private institutions: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. The public and private sectors are merged into one power base of elites.

The US government most assuredly has a partnership of public and private.

Joe regularly brags about his relationship with the business community and couldn't fund his campaign without them. He also gets funding for his department from the fascist federal government for towing the statist line.

9. Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

The US government is very obsessed with crime and punishment. It also has multiple branches of its national police force. DEA, ATF, FBI, Dept of Homeland Security, US Marshals Service, etc.

Joe is also very obsessed with crime and punishment. It is his life’s work. He was also a member of one of the national police forces for 25 years, the DEA.

10. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

The US government is filled with rampant cronyism and corruption.

So is Joe's Sheriff's Dept. He protected guards from a murder investigation. Uses police info to intimidate elected officials and reporters. Has been protected by County Attorney Andrew Thomas and Special Prosecutor Dennis Wilenchik from investigation and prosecution.

11. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

The US government most assuredly fixes election both here and in the puppet governments of our soviet style satellite empire. It uses assassination like the CIA killings of JFK, RFK, MLK Jr, Larry McDonald, Paul Wellstone and more. It uses legislation to control political district boundaries. It manipulates the media.

Joe participates in the sham of American 2 party politics.


There did that explain to you how Arpaio is a fascist. I wasn’t pulling a word out of my ass. It was a very accurate description of who and what the man is all about. I could explain the economic and political system of fascism further but I don’t want to waste anymore time on you. I’m not sure if you could understand anyways. You obviously need a real education and a lesson or two in humility. Then again I understand that it is easy for punks like you to be a condescending arrogant smartass on a message board. Still laughing?

[constituent]

Bullshit.

You far left authoritarian collectivists... You are just reading off the blog of some dumbshit British pillowbiter who got arrested for selling meth

...You are both of the same ilk.

n/m, i don't want to detract from the post above this one.


good read, highly recommended pwnage.

[AuH20]

Okay. First off, don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I use the word fascist. I know exactly what fascism is. It is you who apparently are clueless and need to be educated so I guess I'm going to be the one to have to do it.

First, before I explain what Fascism is to you, Joe is not just "a small town sheriff in the middle of nowhere" he is an ex-DEA agent of 25 years. Before that he was a military policeman in France for the American government. Your catagorization of him as just "a small town sheriff in the middle of nowhere" exposes you as either uniformed and ignorant or a dishonest shill for Joe. He is a national drug war figure and a major go to guy for the media when they need a drug warrior on a segment. He does not just enforce the laws. He ACTIVELY campaigns for more laws and more police powers. He also shamelessly self promotes and shills for any nationalistic proposals that come out of Washington. If he just enforced the laws without pushing his own political agenda I couldn’t care less about him and neither would the rest of the country. Please don’t give me that shit about “he swore and oath”, he also swore an oath to protect the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. That doesn’t stop him from ripping it to shreds to crusade for his precious unconstitutional drug war.

Now on to your education. Ok, let’s examine fascism, the American system and how Joe fits into it all as a good little American fascist.
Fascism is a "right-wing" Hegelian socialist system that masquerades as a socially conservative "patriotic" movement with a "capitalist" veneer. As an economic system it is modeled after the German pattern of socialism called Zwangsvirtschaft or all around planning. It has 11 basic points.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

The US Federal Government promotes powerful and continuing nationalism.

Joe does this. He has his own radio station that broadcasts "patriotic" music. Flags and authoritarian symbols decorate him and everything in his life.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

The US Federal Government has disdain for the recognition of human rights. Unless it can use human rights as a weapon to demonize a potential victim of its imperialistic foreign policy.

Joe could care less about his prisoners.
Keeping prisoners in 110+ degree temperatures.
Giving them spoiled food.
Stun gunning of prisoners. This is torture under the Geneva conventions.
A prisoner had his neck broken by guards who were seen on camera laughing while it was happening.
Deaths that have been covered up by lost evidence or phony investigations by Joe Arpaio himself.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

The US Federal Government does this.

4. Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

The US Federal Government definitely has this.

This is why Joe glamorizes his military and DEA service. He also required inmates in 2001 to register with the Selective Service System. This is a VERY militaristic man. He has spent his entire adult life in statist military style organizations.

5. Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

The US Government controls the media through the FCC.

This is why Joe has a national reputation. He is a go to guy for the pro drug war propagandists. This is also why he uses deputies to intimidate reporters who are investigating Joe and his jail.

6. Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

The US Government is obsessed with national security.

Joe is VERY obsessed with national security. He uses fear ever chance he gets. Just go look at his website.

7. Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

The US government does this as well.

Joe uses religious rhetoric.

8. Partnership of public and private institutions: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. The public and private sectors are merged into one power base of elites.

The US government most assuredly has a partnership of public and private.

Joe regularly brags about his relationship with the business community and couldn't fund his campaign without them. He also gets funding for his department from the fascist federal government for towing the statist line.

9. Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

The US government is very obsessed with crime and punishment. It also has multiple branches of its national police force. DEA, ATF, FBI, Dept of Homeland Security, US Marshals Service, etc.

Joe is also very obsessed with crime and punishment. It is his life’s work. He was also a member of one of the national police forces for 25 years, the DEA.

10. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

The US government is filled with rampant cronyism and corruption.

So is Joe's Sheriff's Dept. He protected guards from a murder investigation. Uses police info to intimidate elected officials and reporters. Has been protected by County Attorney Andrew Thomas and Special Prosecutor Dennis Wilenchik from investigation and prosecution.

11. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

The US government most assuredly fixes election both here and in the puppet governments of our soviet style satellite empire. It uses assassination like the CIA killings of JFK, RFK, MLK Jr, Larry McDonald, Paul Wellstone and more. It uses legislation to control political district boundaries. It manipulates the media.

Joe participates in the sham of American 2 party politics.


There did that explain to you how Arpaio is a fascist. I wasn’t pulling a word out of my ass. It was a very accurate description of who and what the man is all about. I could explain the economic and political system of fascism further but I don’t want to waste anymore time on you. I’m not sure if you could understand anyways. You obviously need a real education and a lesson or two in humility. Then again I understand that it is easy for punks like you to be a condescending arrogant smartass on a message board. Still laughing?


The following statement you made really puzzles me.


This is Joe to the letter. This is why he demonizes illegals, uses the war on terror to get funding and pushes the federal governments line of xenophobia and nationalism every chance he gets.

Considering the recent push made by our Congress and the business community to get Amnesty ratified, this reality runs contrary to this unsubstantiated stance you're projecting upon the federal government. The federal government actually encourages cheap labor to migrate here. So if Joe Arpaio was as dispicable as you say and managed to keep all these internal crimes hush-hush, how has he managed to evade prosecution with so many enemies in the establishment wanting him banished for disrupting the flow of chattel? How has he been able to pull off that impressive trick, considering his department is under constant monitoring and auditing? Just something to weigh on before you conveniently thow Arpaio into the chain of government excess.

[AuH20]

Here come the feds with their liberal lap dogs in tow!:

http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44899

[Chamdar]

I won't speak for the person who tried to murder him, but I'm appalled to see so many so-called libertarians and Paul supporters sticking up for a corrupt, drug-warring law-and-order thug like Joe Arpaio just because he's opposed to illegal immigration.

[bossman068410]

Wikipedia a reliable source?

He is for equal rights.
He had the first woman CHAIN GANG.

Ps. the chain gangs are voluntary in his prison.

[Chamdar]

Wikipedia a reliable source?

He is for equal rights.
He had the first woman CHAIN GANG.

Ps. the chain gangs are voluntary in his prison.

He also supports the War on Drugs (and violating the rights of native-born Americans jailed on drug charges).

[Carole]

Excellent Torchbearer. I think you have had the last word. :D