An open letter to Ron Paul supporters:

[GunnyFreedom]

First and foremost, let me state that I am one of you. I heard of Ron Paul for the first time in my life in May-June of 2007, and by October of 2007 I dropped my entire life to go out canvassing as a pure volunteer in three states. I have hated and despised politics my entire life, and today on account of Dr Paul having cured my apathy, I am running for high GOP office, with a long range plan taking me to the NC State assembly, and US Congress by around 2020.

I witnessed first-hand the media smear and blackout campaign against Ron Paul. I cannot begin to describe the outright rage and anger I felt over that, nor am I likely to trust ANYBODY in the media for the next decade.

However, I am not writing to tell you how awesome all of you are.

Time and again, I am watching the media and I am seeing our ideas gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas. Glenn Beck is pushing the Second Amendment as a hedge against government tyranny, and bringing guests on his show who recommend arming ourselves against the coming conflagration. Rush Limbaugh went to CPAC with a decent speech about individual liberty. "End The Fed" is becoming forefront on the Republican agenda like it hasn't in nearly 100 years.

No, I haven't forgotten how Glenn Beck called us terrorists. No, I haven't forgotten that Rush Limbaugh endorsed Mitt "Universal Healthcare" Romney. No, I haven't forgotten that those same Republicans now throwing tea parties and chanting "End The Fed!" are the same Republicans who tried to muscle us out of the process in 2008. I haven't forgotten ANY of these things.

But how stupid do we have to be to reject REAL PROGRESS on our agenda?

Time and time again, we Ron Paulers who are working our tails off and our fingers to the bone to make a real difference in America today, get derision from the allegedly 'intellectually pure Paulers' who hate us because we are happy that our ideas are finally gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas.

Are the media and the Republicans suddenly coming around because the GOP was humiliated in 2008? Probably, but why is that a bad thing? Are they merely being opportunistic? Probably, but opportunistic or not, OUR MESSAGE IS BEING HEARD!

Sure, you can say "too little, too late" and I'll agree with you. Wholeheartedly and without reservation. But our efforts to restore the Republic did not end with the 2008 campaign! We ALL wanted the effort to continue into 2009, 2012, and 2016; and now that we are actually reaping victories and successes throughout America, there remains so many of us who want to REJECT those victories because they don't like those people who are (slowly!) coming around to our side.

We didn't get to this place all at once, we got here by incrementalism. We won't restore the Republic all at once either, we will get there the same way we got here - by incrementalism. Sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

So get off your rear ends, stop complaining that we may be succeeding but you don't personally like the people who are spreading our message to millions of Americans, and GET ACTIVE in pushing our movement and our agenda forward!

If you didn't want us to succeed, then why did you support Ron Paul in the first place?

No, this does not mean that I trust the media. I am not likely to trust ANYBODY in the media any time soon. But for goodness sakes, hearing OUR MESSAGE being delivered be the mainstream media, seeing scores of bloggers and Republicans who taunted us throughout 2007 and 2008 suddenly reversing course, in tears, saying they should have listened to Ron Paul in the first place, this is the sound of encroaching VICTORY people!

No wonder our political views have historically failed to gain ground and acceptance. Whenever someone in a position to help us starts to turn our way; you reject them even more heavily than you did when they opposed us!

Get a grip! Help us continue the fight, or get out of the way. Sitting on the sidelines criticizing every victory is the surest path to defeat.

If you are one of those Ron Paul supporters who do nothing but criticize our every inch of ground gained, (you know who you are!) then do Ron Paul and our nation a favor, and go away. If, on the other hand, you want to help us achieve our victories inch by bloody inch, then we need your help now more than ever before.

Thank you, sincerely.

Glen Bradley

[nayjevin]

good post, Glen. I must say I've been guilty of criticizing these folks instead of embracing the situation. Thanks for a lesson learned.

-- valid questions imo:
why criticize someone who is in the right direction?
why support those institutions which have brought us so much grief?

criticizing is rarely the most effective option, in my experience, but I'll be damned if I turn the TV back on.

[qwerty]

Nice post!

[olehounddog]

Well said, Sir.

[GunnyFreedom]

good post, Glen. I must say I've been guilty of criticizing these folks instead of embracing the situation. Thanks for a lesson learned.

It is impossible to stay on the front lines of a war for any length of time without getting hit by something. Those hits add up, and can wear us down.

Make no mistake, we are at war. You certainly have no cause for apology, were you not on the front lines in the first place you would not be subject to injury or battle fatigue.

It is important, therefore, to maintain perspective; and when the perspective gets all distorted and myopic, take a round of R&R outside the combat zone to recollect. :)

[constituent]

Well written and I appreciate the sentiment, but it is time to move past Ron Paul. Frankly, so many of you power hungry "converts" have proven yourselves time and again to be incapable of either leading or making consistently rational decisions in terms of policy advocacy (you know who you are!)

For too many of you, "liberty is just the excuse..."

Those of us who are "ideologically pure" (no such thing, imo), "we" see this war for what it is. Battles are not isolated merely to small victories of political wonkery, but are part of a greater shift in society that is 1) inevitable and 2) going to move on without you.

Combating the propaganda machine that got us here (that very machine you seek to embrace... no "now" about it) is perhaps even more important than any attempts to "conquer this nation" (your words, not mine). This world has seen no shortage of "conquerors" and alas, it is you who are the problem, not those with better sense than to support you.

You say: So get off your rear ends, stop complaining that we may be succeeding but you don't personally like the people who are spreading our message to millions of Americans, and GET ACTIVE in pushing our movement and our agenda forward!

I say: There is no "we.. succeeding," no "our message," no "our" movement, no "our agenda." One need simply to look at 1) The media cheerleaders vs. The media critics 2) The open vs. militarized borders factions 3) Various non-archists vs. the various degrees of statists, and many other divisions that are not small, but represent opposite ends of the socio-political spectrum.

You see, the thing about Ron Paul's 2008 bid for the presidency was that he brought all of these disparate groups together, and that is a good thing. But to assume that we can, and further, that we must all jump in line to support you and your cause is both foolish and presumptuous.

To assume that you speak for Ron Paul, or that you even have the right to pretend is much worse. Remember that this was Ronpaulforums, but that it is now libertyforest. Accordingly, when you say things like "do Ron Paul and our nation a favor, and go away," not only are you out of line (so what? the media is ok, but other supporters who do not fervently support your cause are not? this isn't your call to make, and we are all free to express our opinions regardless of their popularity, and with or without your approval), but doing a great disservice to the rag tag coalition that came together behind RP (and according, RP's message).

Anyway, there's plenty more to be said but I'm on my way to Houston, perhaps I'll check in later.

[GunnyFreedom]

Thank you qwerty and olehounddog, I know how easy it is to fall out of sorts. It is easy to get dejected from being rejected; but at the end of the day we have to press on, because what is at stake here is nothing less than the survival of our Republic.

We can do this. We really can. If the group of us who were active throughout 2007 and 2008 were to remain active through 2012, then I guarantee you the impact we will have will be profound. We can't allow some few people, whether they be inside our movement or outside our movement, to stop us from our mission. There are far more of us than there are of them. We are the ones who can make a real difference; and the naysayers can just go to hell. We will succeed whether they like it or not. :D

[GunnyFreedom]

Well written and I appreciate the sentiment, but it is time to move past Ron Paul. Frankly, so many of you power hungry "converts" have proven yourselves time and again to be incapable of either leading or making consistently rational decisions in terms of policy advocacy (you know who you are!)

For too many of you, "liberty is just the excuse..."

Those of us who are "ideologically pure" (no such thing, imo), "we" see this war for what it is. Battles are not isolated merely to small victories of political wonkery, but are part of a greater shift in society that is 1) inevitable and 2) going to move on without you.

Combating the propaganda machine that got us here (that very machine you seek to embrace... no "now" about it) is perhaps even more important than any attempts to "conquer this nation" (your words, not mine). This world has seen no shortage of "conquerors" and alas, it is you who are the problem, not those with better sense than to support you.

You say: So get off your rear ends, stop complaining that we may be succeeding but you don't personally like the people who are spreading our message to millions of Americans, and GET ACTIVE in pushing our movement and our agenda forward!

I say: There is no "we.. succeeding," no "our message," no "our" movement, no "our agenda." One need simply to look at 1) The media cheerleaders vs. The media critics 2) The open vs. militarized borders factions 3) Various non-archists vs. the various degrees of statists, and many other divisions that are not small, but represent opposite ends of the socio-political spectrum.

You see, the thing about Ron Paul's 2008 bid for the presidency was that he brought all of these disparate groups together, and that is a good thing. But to assume that we can, and further, that we must all jump in line to support you and your cause is both foolish and presumptuous.

To assume that you speak for Ron Paul, or that you even have the right to pretend is much worse. Remember that this was Ronpaulforums, but that it is now libertyforest. Accordingly, when you say things like "do Ron Paul and our nation a favor, and go away," not only are you out of line (so what? the media is ok, but other supporters who do not fervently support your cause are not? this isn't your call to make, and we are all free to express our opinions regardless of their popularity, and with or without your approval), but doing a great disservice to the rag tag coalition that came together behind RP (and according, RP's message).

Anyway, there's plenty more to be said but I'm on my way to Houston, perhaps I'll check in later.

I couldn't give a rat's behind what the people think who are trying to stop me. You can either stay, or go. I have absolutely no use for you constituent. you have done nothing but opposed our progress from day one. YOU are one of those to whom I refer when I speak of people 'inside our movement' killing our movement bit by bit.

I will not mince words with you. I do not have the luxury of time to be stroking your ego until you start to help. You actively seek to block the progress of our movement at every turn, and therefore you are enemy. That is all I need to know or care about from you.

[TruthisTreason]

We all have different jobs to do, maybe some will kiss the ass of new converts, maybe others will slander them. Some may canvass, some may teach, some may do God knows what, and still others will sit around and bitch. Different strokes for different folks.

That is why I look to "I" and not "we".

[TER]

Great OP! This movement was never only about the 2008 election.

[FrankRep]

Lets just hope that CPAC, Glenn Beck, and Rush's words translate into real action. As they say, talk is cheap.

[GunnyFreedom]

We all have different jobs to do, maybe some will kiss the ass of new converts, maybe others will slander them. Some may canvass, some may teach, some may do God knows what, and still others will sit around and bitch. Different strokes for different folks.

That is why I look to "I" and not "we".

And that is why the establishment continues to win against us. They are organized and united behind a common goal. If we refuse to be a 'we' then we will get divided and conquered for the rest of time.

No, I am not suggesting lock-step roboticism. But this ardent refusal to unite behind a cause, any cause, will destroy us.

Politics is war, written in the ammunition of ideas, and usually without literal blood. No war has ever been won without the victor's army working as a team.

I say we can all rally behind the banner of Constitutionalism, and if we all work towards the same goal of affecting profound Constitutionalist reform of government, then we can actually do it.

But the longer we demand that nobody be allowed to rally the movement, the more certain it becomes that we will fail.

[Conza88]

First and foremost, let me state that I am one of you. I heard of Ron Paul for the first time in my life in May-June of 2007, and by October of 2007 I dropped my entire life to go out canvassing as a pure volunteer in three states. I have hated and despised politics my entire life, and today on account of Dr Paul having cured my apathy, I am running for high GOP office, with a long range plan taking me to the NC State assembly, and US Congress by around 2020.

Great work. But why does Treg's Open Letter to Daily Paul to vote for Obama before the elections come to mind when I read this? :confused:


I witnessed first-hand the media smear and blackout campaign against Ron Paul. I cannot begin to describe the outright rage and anger I felt over that, nor am I likely to trust ANYBODY in the media for the next decade.

Except....................


However, I am not writing to tell you how awesome all of you are.

Same goes from me, to the OP.


Time and again, I am watching the media and I am seeing our ideas gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas. Glenn Beck is pushing the Second Amendment as a hedge against government tyranny, and bringing guests on his show who recommend arming ourselves against the coming conflagration. Rush Limbaugh went to CPAC with a decent speech about individual liberty. "End The Fed" is becoming forefront on the Republican agenda like it hasn't in nearly 100 years.

No, I haven't forgotten how Glenn Beck called us terrorists. No, I haven't forgotten that Rush Limbaugh endorsed Mitt "Universal Healthcare" Romney. No, I haven't forgotten that those same Republicans now throwing tea parties and chanting "End The Fed!" are the same Republicans who tried to muscle us out of the process in 2008. I haven't forgotten ANY of these things.

But how stupid do we have to be to reject REAL PROGRESS on our agenda?


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xB85TxPhPhE/SYsO3II8rZI/AAAAAAAAAN0/jr2_wNUV4rA/s320/riker-facepalm.jpg

REAL PROGRESS? Who exactly is rejecting that? I don't see anyone. All I see are tools who are trying to buy back into the Matrix, who have once again fallen for the false left / right paradigm, who are too dumb or blind to realise that the Fourth Estate is far more superior than PRAVDA for the SOVIET UNION WAS.

Those who are buying this tripe, who think the Neo-Conservatives, the Rush, the Ann Coulter, the Sean Hannity, the Michelle Malkin have genuinely changed remind me of Cypher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM). You know what happens to him in the movie right, when he tries to sell out?

But I find it extremely hard to believe that more people don't see it. What is happening to the "Right" is exactly what happened to the "Left" when Bush got voted in. You seriously don't question the INSTANT SWITCH from when Bush was doing ALL THE SAME THINGS AS OBAMA, WHERE NOTHING HAS CHANGED. But the minute he is out of office, everyone switches hats. (PRO Status Quo hat goes to MSNBC, CNBC, CNN etc) they took the hat from Fox News.

Now Fox news has the ANTI Status Quo hat on.

You seriously cannot see it? Why not? WHY? It is as clear as frikkin day.

NOTHING CHANGED EXCEPT THE LETTER AT THE END OF THE PERSON IN OFFICE. THIS IS BASICALLY BUSHES 3RD TERM.

Yet it's as if there was the ideological shift of the ages, ZOMG WE HAVE COMMUNISM NOW, let's rally the free market people into action. Just as happened with the left over the last 8 years, and it amounts to dick all. Because they all get filtered into the Democratic party, the two party system like Drones.

As SOON as it didn't matter, this all started. There was NOTHING that would have changed these peoples tune.

Tell me. WHAT could have possibly convinced all of these folk, WHAT converted them all to Libertarianism, I'd LOVE to know so I can CONVERT others like that. At the drop of a hat, you get the entire "Right" "Anti-status quo media" trying to associate themselves with Libertarianism and Ron Paul. (I.e MAKE him look like the rest of them, to try associate all the BAD labels and personalities with Ron Paul as much as possible). It's called tainting.

So again, what convinced all these people, to over night adopt Libertarianism? Besides the fact that the letter at the end of the persons name went from (R) to (D). What changed besides that? I'm ALL ears. Give it a shot. :rolleyes:


Time and time again, we Ron Paulers who are working our tails off and our fingers to the bone to make a real difference in America today, get derision from the allegedly 'intellectually pure Paulers' who hate us because we are happy that our ideas are finally gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas.

Farmer gunny likes to erect Strawmen in his spare time. :rolleyes:


Are the media and the Republicans suddenly coming around because the GOP was humiliated in 2008? Probably, but why is that a bad thing? Are they merely being opportunistic? Probably, but opportunistic or not, OUR MESSAGE IS BEING HEARD!

The message of Economic Liberty is being heard from basically one news source for a few hrs of the day. There is a lull in the war propaganda, because Obama is all about CHANGE. The issue has dropped off the face of the earth. But you don't care do you? :rolleyes: You don't realise that they need to get everyone back into the fold to move to the next stages.

But the strategy for dealing with the situation is this:



Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"

Or do you not understand / can't comprehend that? :confused:


Sure, you can say "too little, too late" and I'll agree with you. Wholeheartedly and without reservation. But our efforts to restore the Republic did not end with the 2008 campaign! We ALL wanted the effort to continue into 2009, 2012, and 2016; and now that we are actually reaping victories and successes throughout America, there remains so many of us who want to REJECT those victories because they don't like those people who are (slowly!) coming around to our side.

Who the fck is rejecting what? More pure bullshit pulled outta your ass. We're making massive progress, but it has FCK ALL to do with Beck, Malkin, Hannity, Coulter, Rush or ANYTHING to do with the GOP's new tune. If you think it does, you're fcken delusional.

It has everything to do with Ron Paul, Schiff, Lew Rockwell + all Austrian Economists, the Patriots, rEVOLutionaries, grassroots, YAL and somewhat C4L.


We didn't get to this place all at once, we got here by incrementalism. We won't restore the Republic all at once either, we will get there the same way we got here - by incrementalism. Sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

No. We got here by promoting RADICALISM and standing by our principles. Abolish the FED, End the IRS, Get rid of the INCOME Tax, END the Empire, Bring the Troops Home etc.

Sorry, you have no idea what you're talking about.


So get off your rear ends, stop complaining that we may be succeeding but you don't personally like the people who are spreading our message to millions of Americans, and GET ACTIVE in pushing our movement and our agenda forward!

If you didn't want us to succeed, then why did you support Ron Paul in the first place?

Farmer gunny likes his strawmen. Fallacious as usual.

I don't like those who were once REAL rEVOLutionaries to ditch the team and go follow the false prophets off the cliff... just like rats following the Pied Piper. Don't fall for the false left / right paradigm....

Thomas Jefferson rolls in his grave every time you turn your back on the real REVOLUTION.

I'll give you a HINT. It DOESN'T LIE IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. AND of ALL places, FAUX NEWS. The in-ability to see this clearly amazes me. Such short, memories.


No, this does not mean that I trust the media. I am not likely to trust ANYBODY in the media any time soon. But for goodness sakes, hearing OUR MESSAGE being delivered be the mainstream media, seeing scores of bloggers and Republicans who taunted us throughout 2007 and 2008 suddenly reversing course, in tears, saying they should have listened to Ron Paul in the first place, this is the sound of encroaching VICTORY people!

Ok, so it went from "decades" to "any time soon" in the space of a few paragraphs. :rolleyes:

I'm going to repeat this for the mentally challengeds sake.



Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"

Point them to it, but like a drum, every change you get. "He's wrong on terrorism." "He's wrong on foriegn policy" "He has no idea what he's talking about when he talks about foriegn affairs" "He's a complete tool when it comes to Social Liberties" "He's good on economics, but dismal on everything else" "He's not actually a libertarian, he's still a neo-conservative / objectivists" "But it's good he's highlighting economics."

This is what I've advocated from the get go. About two months ago, when I was like; "Wait... wtf is going on here."

What you will now see from the Media (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=177088)

Do yourself a favor. READ the whole thread, before you respond to this. Better yet go make a response in the thread. You clearly missed it and the analysis.

Have an open mind please. Just as I do. Don't defend the wrong, simply because I'm defending the right.


If you are one of those Ron Paul supporters who do nothing but criticize our every inch of ground gained, (you know who you are!) then do Ron Paul and our nation a favor, and go away. If, on the other hand, you want to help us achieve our victories inch by bloody inch, then we need your help now more than ever before.

Do everyone a favor. Don't go calling Glen Beck or any of those scum you use to define "success" as, as Libertarians. You tarnish the true label of Liberty when you associate neo-con trotskyite scum like that with Freedom, to everyones peril.


Thank you, sincerely.

Glen Bradley

All the Best,

Isaiah's Job.

[jrich4rpaul]

Thanks for the post. Very true.

[angelatc]

I couldn't give a rat's behind what the people think who are trying to stop me. You can either stay, or go. I have absolutely no use for you constituent. you have done nothing but opposed our progress from day one. YOU are one of those to whom I refer when I speak of people 'inside our movement' killing our movement bit by bit.

I will not mince words with you. I do not have the luxury of time to be stroking your ego until you start to help. You actively seek to block the progress of our movement at every turn, and therefore you are enemy. That is all I need to know or care about from you.

Excellent posts - both of them!

[Minarchy4Sale]

Gunny, I tend to agree with you, with one caveat. One thing that the mainstream parties in general have been good at is adopting the RHETORIC of the founders (particularly when they are out of power) and pretending to be true believers, but then when once they gain power, they show their true collectivist big government core. We ALL have to stay committed to not only delivering the message, but to ensure TRUE BELIEVERS are those who are eventually elected to office.

I could provide many examples, but I will settle for two. 1. The Goldwater inspired "Reagan Revolution" was coopted by the theocrats and blue bloods inside the Republican party. We managed to get a great idealogue elected, who was then surrounded by NEOCONS, and those neocons ultimately determined policy. Government didnt shrink. 2. Contract with America - also great rhetoric, also a crappy result.

IMO it is great that those that once ridiculed us have adopted our message, it is also a grave danger. If we are not vigilant, it will amount to nothing.

[cska80]

It reminds me of when I was in highschool and one of my friends wouldn't listen to a band that went 'mainstream' after listening to them for 6 months to a year, no matter how much he liked them in the first place.

[JoshLowry]

One way or another the message should be spread and people should be awakened.

If someone wants to organize, more power to them. No one is forcing you to join what they see as their group.

It's a time for action in my opinion and I applaud your efforts. Best of luck Glen!

[malkusm]

First and foremost, let me state that I am one of you. I heard of Ron Paul for the first time in my life in May-June of 2007, and by October of 2007 I dropped my entire life to go out canvassing as a pure volunteer in three states. I have hated and despised politics my entire life, and today on account of Dr Paul having cured my apathy, I am running for high GOP office, with a long range plan taking me to the NC State assembly, and US Congress by around 2020.

I witnessed first-hand the media smear and blackout campaign against Ron Paul. I cannot begin to describe the outright rage and anger I felt over that, nor am I likely to trust ANYBODY in the media for the next decade.

However, I am not writing to tell you how awesome all of you are.

Time and again, I am watching the media and I am seeing our ideas gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas. Glenn Beck is pushing the Second Amendment as a hedge against government tyranny, and bringing guests on his show who recommend arming ourselves against the coming conflagration. Rush Limbaugh went to CPAC with a decent speech about individual liberty. "End The Fed" is becoming forefront on the Republican agenda like it hasn't in nearly 100 years.

No, I haven't forgotten how Glenn Beck called us terrorists. No, I haven't forgotten that Rush Limbaugh endorsed Mitt "Universal Healthcare" Romney. No, I haven't forgotten that those same Republicans now throwing tea parties and chanting "End The Fed!" are the same Republicans who tried to muscle us out of the process in 2008. I haven't forgotten ANY of these things.

But how stupid do we have to be to reject REAL PROGRESS on our agenda?

Time and time again, we Ron Paulers who are working our tails off and our fingers to the bone to make a real difference in America today, get derision from the allegedly 'intellectually pure Paulers' who hate us because we are happy that our ideas are finally gaining ground in the marketplace of ideas.

Are the media and the Republicans suddenly coming around because the GOP was humiliated in 2008? Probably, but why is that a bad thing? Are they merely being opportunistic? Probably, but opportunistic or not, OUR MESSAGE IS BEING HEARD!

Sure, you can say "too little, too late" and I'll agree with you. Wholeheartedly and without reservation. But our efforts to restore the Republic did not end with the 2008 campaign! We ALL wanted the effort to continue into 2009, 2012, and 2016; and now that we are actually reaping victories and successes throughout America, there remains so many of us who want to REJECT those victories because they don't like those people who are (slowly!) coming around to our side.

We didn't get to this place all at once, we got here by incrementalism. We won't restore the Republic all at once either, we will get there the same way we got here - by incrementalism. Sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

So get off your rear ends, stop complaining that we may be succeeding but you don't personally like the people who are spreading our message to millions of Americans, and GET ACTIVE in pushing our movement and our agenda forward!

If you didn't want us to succeed, then why did you support Ron Paul in the first place?

No, this does not mean that I trust the media. I am not likely to trust ANYBODY in the media any time soon. But for goodness sakes, hearing OUR MESSAGE being delivered be the mainstream media, seeing scores of bloggers and Republicans who taunted us throughout 2007 and 2008 suddenly reversing course, in tears, saying they should have listened to Ron Paul in the first place, this is the sound of encroaching VICTORY people!

No wonder our political views have historically failed to gain ground and acceptance. Whenever someone in a position to help us starts to turn our way; you reject them even more heavily than you did when they opposed us!

Get a grip! Help us continue the fight, or get out of the way. Sitting on the sidelines criticizing every victory is the surest path to defeat.

If you are one of those Ron Paul supporters who do nothing but criticize our every inch of ground gained, (you know who you are!) then do Ron Paul and our nation a favor, and go away. If, on the other hand, you want to help us achieve our victories inch by bloody inch, then we need your help now more than ever before.

Thank you, sincerely.

Glen Bradley

Great post. Too many people here are caught up in the who is spreading the message, and are willing to give up on having it heard at all because the messengers aren't "pure enough." By all means, don't trust the messenger, and certainly don't elect him to any office; actions speak louder than words. But words do speak to people.

The GOP hasn't changed yet, of course. They are certainly pandering to our voter block for their next election. But, to those who are quick to jump down someone's throat for posting a video of someone who is spreading a small-government message - in what way would you have us make progress?

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

You make good points OP but can we clean up our own house?
Consider this thread my reply to the OP.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=182813

[Time for Change]

I am here, getting the scars right along with you...
and I have NO intention of slowing down.

People I have been working on for 2 years are coming around and repeating things I have told them in the past, they just forgot who told them in the first place.
The point is, they are waking up...and it's about damned time.
Small steps and lots of patience.

Battle weary is an understatement.
Being battle weary and still fighting is better than what we face with the
acceptance of Eutopi-socialism

[Conza88]

Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"



Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"

Nuff' said.

[nayjevin]

Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"This sums up my belief too. Thanks Conza.

None of us should be critical of anything but mistruth.

[Wayreth]

It would be all well and good if people shared our ideas. But the problem is the media, such as Rush and Glenn ,are conveying the idea to their viewers to trust them and no one else. They take our message and apply it to them while attacking the credibility of those who have stood for the message for a very long time. I just experienced that minutes ago.

My grandparents listen to Rush and Fox and my mother gets entrapped in the propaganda at crucial times as well. While our message is spread through the media, the only thing that stuck in their minds about what Ron Paul stood for was the fact that he had earmarks and thus was only a hypocrite while the media members somehow kept their credibility. The message is now detached from Ron Paul, discrediting him and is attached to the 'conservative' media. Thankfully I was able to clear up the earmark confusion for them rather quickly and used it as an example of how the media whom appears to share our ideas truly are misinforming their viewer base. This merely was an example of how the media can backfire on us even when spreading our message. The GOP after all did hold meetings to try to figure out how they can draw in the youth to stand with them. It's no coincidence that conservative media all of a sudden changed it's position when a democrat became president.

Conza stated it very well:


Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"

[amonasro]

I think when the MSM is on our side, like now, we should take advantage of it to turn more people on to the message. When the tide turns against us (as it eventually will) we'll adopt another strategy. We are using the MSM. They are not using us. The internet is becoming more powerful than they are.

[Conza88]

I think when the MSM is on our side, like now, we should take advantage of it to turn more people on to the message. When the tide turns against us (as it eventually will) we'll adopt another strategy. We are using the MSM. They are not using us. The internet is becoming more powerful than they are.

They are never on our side. That is the point. Geezus christ.

Their goal isn't to further the cause of Liberty. When is it ever?

Their goal is to push everyone back into the fold. To try get Ron Paul supporters, the real revolutionaries to validate the message and fold back into the Republican party... not spring up another party, or reject the system all together.

If it seems like our goals align they don't. And if they do, it is temporary. Get people onto the message and not the source. FFS.

[JoshLowry]

They are never on our side. That is the point. Geezus christ.

Their goal isn't to further the cause of Liberty. When is it ever?

Their goal is to push everyone back into the fold. To try get Ron Paul supporters, the real revolutionaries to validate the message and fold back into the Republican party... not spring up another party, or reject the system all together.

If it seems like our goals align they don't. And if they do, it is temporary. Get people onto the message and not the source. FFS.

+1

I do agree with everything you've said Conza, but I think Gunny was just trying to pump everyone up and announce his run for office.

I don't think he was trying to convince everyone to watch Beck and crew.

[GunnyFreedom]

I think when the MSM is on our side, like now, we should take advantage of it to turn more people on to the message. When the tide turns against us (as it eventually will) we'll adopt another strategy. We are using the MSM. They are not using us. The internet is becoming more powerful than they are.

This.

I am not saying we should get in bed with the MSM, nor am I saying we should direct people to the MSM. rather that when we have the opportunity to USE them to hand out more red pills; USE THE HELL OUT OF THEM!

We have an extremely important election coming up in 2012. The way I figure it, the MSM will STOP singing our tune around November of 2011. That means we have a 20 month window where we can encourage the MSM to say more and more on our message, so that the seed is planted into people's brain-housing groups. Then those seeds will be a LOT easier to access come the 2012 campaign.

On the other hand, we could just shun the media coverage, do everything in our power to STOP them from singing our tune now; and then face the exact same uphill educational battle we faced in 2008, leading to another similar failure.

Myself, I want to win, not fail.

[GunnyFreedom]

+1

I do agree with everything you've said Conza, but I think Gunny was just trying to pump everyone up and announce his run for office.

I don't think he was trying to convince everyone to watch Beck and crew.

No, I am saying that it is the height of stupidity to need a hammer to do a job, but then reject using that hammer because the last guy who used it may have had cooties.

We have a limited time to work, and a limited toolbox. This has nothing whatsoever to do with my own run, but rather our effort to restore the Republic.

I am not suggesting anybody fall in lust with the media; I am suggesting that we can use them while they are amenable now, to make our 2012 effort easier.

[JoshLowry]

Just make sure you point your friends/family to good websites if you recommend tv heads that are temporarily hot on liberty!

:)

[GunnyFreedom]

Just make sure you point your friends/family to good websites if you recommend tv heads that are temporarily hot on liberty!

:)

Websites, handouts, fliers, and pocket constitutions by the gross. ;)

[Athan]

I'm on board Gunny. If I ridicule hannity, malkin, luntz, cameron and those other stooges, I'll lay off.

I just want to know... what are we going to do with them when they turn on us?

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm on board Gunny. If I ridicule hannity, malkin, luntz, cameron and those other stooges, I'll lay off.

I just want to know... what are we going to do with them when they turn on us?

Oh we can ridicule them, I certainly do; what sticks in my craw is whenever someone says, "Hey, wow! I watched Glenn Beck last night, and when he said the second amendment was to protect us against government tyranny, it actually made sense" and then one of our groups replies, "Shut up retard, Glenn Beck is a fuckstick. Only morons watch him!"

What does that do for our goals? Kinda like shifting into reverse, IMHO.

And when I say "use them" like tools in a toolbox, I mean we can maintain contact with these heathens, thank them for covering certain issues, and encourage them to cover those issues even more deeply; so that MORE people will have those "Hey, wow!" moments which we can then capitalize on to push our guy in 2012. It doesn't mean we have to like them or trust them to make use of their actions in order to pass out more red pills.

As to what to do when they turn against us?

"Remember when Hannity hated Ron Paul in 2008, but then admitted he was right all along in 2009 and 2010? Well, Hannity seems to have gone off his meds again, but the truth remains unchanged. We need to elect a real principled Conservative in 2012, so do please help us elect Paul/Johnson in 2012."

[tpreitzel]

In generic terms, the 2nd revolution has ALREADY begun. The year 2008 will probably be seen historically as the year of discontentment leading to the next revolution. Thankfully, states are reasserting their sovereign rights under the 10th amendment and eventually the critters in Washington, D.C. will be left to govern themselves. Let 'em pass legislation. Let 'em rule on issues based on hidden agendas. Let 'em add signing statements to legislation or declare martial law. Frankly, I don't think most states and their people will give a shitte. Stop sending tax money to D.C. and then you won't have to beg for some of it back with strings attached. The states are learning. The states need to start arming themselves in case the inevitable confrontation with the federales gets ugly. The states need to start defending constitutional law and the rights of their citizens instead of the special interests in Washington, D.C., e.g. the Franken case. It will get ugly and the ugliness has already begun. As a group, we've helped to ignite the revolution which has been long overdue. Our work must continue. The victory will take care of itself as long as we're committed to work, work, work for the sake of constitutional liberty. The people are beginning to see the emperor as he really is... exposed and dying. In their fearful fright, they're entering the dangerous stage where they realize that they'll actually have to WORK to support themselves instead of depending on the state for survival... scary indeed.

[RickyJ]

I couldn't give a rat's behind what the people think who are trying to stop me.


Stop you? :D

This isn't about you dude. Get over yourself.

People are waking up slowly, but not becasue of Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck, but rather becasue of US! We are helping people to see the truth one by one. Rush and Beck are media whores, they are side shows, no one with any intelligence takes either of them seriously about anything. They will say and do just what they are told to say and do. Just as Obama and MSM will. If they are embracing parts of Ron Paul's message it is only to try to twist it into something it isn't.

[Conza88]

This.

I am not saying we should get in bed with the MSM, nor am I saying we should direct people to the MSM. rather that when we have the opportunity to USE them to hand out more red pills; USE THE HELL OUT OF THEM!

Round 124:



Ummm, yeaaah this is exactly what I've said. Point people to it, but also acknowledge it for the message, and SHOW THEM OTHER MATERIAL: show them it is being discussed on the mainstream news, then point them to LEWROCKWELL.COM and MISES.ORG - use the mainstream media, to help give credibility.

But if we start going, WATCH fox News, watch Glen Beck - all that happens is, they eventually change their tune. AS THEY WILL. Then all the work goes wasted, the drones you were telling to watch Glen Beck, are now going to get confused when you say - "Don't watch Glen Beck, we really aren't terrorists!"

I realise this is probably getting annoying for some. Then I guess you can appreciate that I'm experiencing the same. This is what's been said all along. Yet the fact that this "Open Letter" exists is a testament to it being ignored.


We have an extremely important election coming up in 2012. The way I figure it, the MSM will STOP singing our tune around November of 2011. That means we have a 20 month window where we can encourage the MSM to say more and more on our message, so that the seed is planted into people's brain-housing groups. Then those seeds will be a LOT easier to access come the 2012 campaign.

Ya-huh.


On the other hand, we could just shun the media coverage, do everything in our power to STOP them from singing our tune now; and then face the exact same uphill educational battle we faced in 2008, leading to another similar failure.

See. WHO has proposed this? WHO? WHO? NAME THEM. WHO?! Then quote them.

They don't exist. You're erecting a strawman. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


Oh we can ridicule them, I certainly do; what sticks in my craw is whenever someone says, "Hey, wow! I watched Glenn Beck last night, and when he said the second amendment was to protect us against government tyranny, it actually made sense" and then one of our groups replies, "Shut up retard, Glenn Beck is a fuckstick. Only morons watch him!"

Another strawman. It's only morons who think Beck and the entire 'switch hats' Media gangsters parade, CFR trolls have genuinely changed and then tell everyone to support the show and the media personality. For those who then support the false prophets, that's when I get pissed... and decide to once again, tell it like it is.


What does that do for our goals? Kinda like shifting into reverse, IMHO.

Getting more people to watch Glen Beck, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, Rush getting people to 'listen' to this guys cus 'they know about economic freedom' - *COUGH* pay no attention to the last 8 years... just the last 8 weeks *COUGH*...

Without prefacing the reason they want, or as I've ranted on previously, what they are wrong on: Then when they inevitably change tune...

... Kind of like speeding up before you go off the cliff, IMHO.


And when I say "use them" like tools in a toolbox, I mean we can maintain contact with these heathens, thank them for covering certain issues, and encourage them to cover those issues even more deeply; so that MORE people will have those "Hey, wow!" moments which we can then capitalize on to push our guy in 2012. It doesn't mean we have to like them or trust them to make use of their actions in order to pass out more red pills.

No-one is ever going to fully convert unless it's done by us, i.e ween them off the propaganda set. The memory's are short, in some cases only a few months. If they get converted by Fox, they will get dragged back in by Fox.

Yes, now is the time to strike. :)


As to what to do when they turn against us?

"Remember when Hannity hated Ron Paul in 2008, but then admitted he was right all along in 2009 and 2010? Well, Hannity seems to have gone off his meds again, but the truth remains unchanged. We need to elect a real principled Conservative in 2012, so do please help us elect Paul/Johnson in 2012."

Yeah I remember that. It was when it actually mattered. That goes for ALL of them. Yeah I remember all right.



People are waking up slowly, but not becasue of Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck, but rather becasue of US! We are helping people to see the truth one by one. Rush and Beck are media whores, they are side shows, no one with any intelligence takes either of them seriously about anything. They will say and do just what they are told to say and do. Just as Obama and MSM will. If they are embracing parts of Ron Paul's message it is only to try to twist it into something it isn't.

Qft.

[tremendoustie]

I think we're disagreeing about nothing, and talking past each other.

Does anyone disagree with these points?:

1. When informing someone of good sources for research on liberty related ideas, it would be a bad idea to include people like Beck, etc, who may prove unreliable.

2. However, in cases where Beck, etc, say something good, the video can be used to help wake people up, or get people to reconsider those ideas (since they are coming from a person they trust).

3. It is a good thing that Beck, etc, are saying these things, because people will hear these ideas, and may investigate further -- getting the message out is always good. Therefore, we should encourage them to do so further, with letters, etc.


Basically, group A thinks group B wants to put full faith in Beck, etc, and consider them spokespeople and leaders. Group B thinks group A wants to never have any MSM success at all, and considers it a bad thing when media types promote our message.

Wheras, in reality, the majority both groups think it's a good thing when MSM promotes our views, and we should encourage it, but shouldn't trust these people as far as we could throw them.

I know some of the old timers are afraid that converted neocons are getting duped again. We're not, I promise. I know Hannity's a lying sleezeball, and I wouldn't be shocked if a month from now Beck has flipped back into calling us terrorists again. We use what we can get, but, at least speaking for myself, we know the score. We all remember getting screwed by Bush, and we know the GOP game. Most of this new rhetoric is 100% because the Rs are the opposition party now, and not because of any sort of epiphany. Still -- we can use it. For example, if hannity promotes liberty, we can say, "Look, even hannity admits it now. Yet, he did everything he could to squelch these ideas before the election. This just goes to show, we need to stop trusting these GOP water carriers, and really stand for liberty against those who attack it -- from either side of the aisle". To a hannity listener, these kinds of arguments can be very effective.

[GunnyFreedom]

I think we're disagreeing about nothing, and talking past each other.

Does anyone disagree with these points?:

1. When informing someone of good sources for research on liberty related ideas, it would be a bad idea to include people like Beck, etc, who may prove unreliable.

2. However, in cases where Beck, etc, say something good, the video can be used to help wake people up, or get people to reconsider those ideas (since they are coming from a person they trust).

3. It is a good thing that Beck, etc, are saying these things, because people will hear these ideas, and may investigate further -- getting the message out is always good. Therefore, we should encourage them to do so further, with letters, etc.


Basically, group A thinks group B wants to put full faith in Beck, etc, and consider them spokespeople and leaders. Group B thinks group A wants to never have any MSM success at all, and considers it a bad thing when media types promote our message.

Wheras, in reality, the majority both groups think it's a good thing when MSM promotes our views, and we should encourage it, but shouldn't trust these people as far as we could throw them.

I know some of the old timers are afraid that converted neocons are getting duped again. We're not, I promise. I know Hannity's a lying sleezeball, and I wouldn't be shocked if a month from now Beck has flipped back into calling us terrorists again. We use what we can get, but, at least speaking for myself, we know the score. We all remember getting screwed by Bush, and we know the GOP game. Most of this new rhetoric is 100% because the Rs are the opposition party now, and not because of any sort of epiphany. Still -- we can use it. For example, if hannity promotes liberty, we can say, "Look, even hannity admits it now. Yet, he did everything he could to squelch these ideas before the election. This just goes to show, we need to stop trusting these GOP water carriers, and really stand for liberty against those who attack it -- from either side of the aisle". To a hannity listener, these kinds of arguments can be very effective.

this.

[Conza88]

Basically, group A thinks group B wants to put full faith in Beck, etc, and consider them spokespeople and leaders. Group B thinks group A wants to never have any MSM success at all, and considers it a bad thing when media types promote our message.



operation Give Glen Beck ratings to convert neocons

Lately Glenn has been right in line with our way of thinking. He is now on FOX and he is the primary news channel for neocons.

If he gets good enough ratings by having all of us break our FOX news boycott and start watching only his show, he may get to be on during the prime times the Hannity viewers watch.

We need to get him to replace hannity and destroy Bill O as far as ratings go.

So lets spread the word and get everyone to boost his ratings. If this plan works then by the time Ron is ready to run again, the FOX news watchers will identify with Ron better. Hopefully Glenn will Have Ron on a regular basis and get the neocons to listen to him more.

Sound like a plan?

lol. :o


Wheras, in reality, the majority both groups think it's a good thing when MSM promotes our views, and we should encourage it, but shouldn't trust these people as far as we could throw them.

Well mostly Beck and the rest of the clowns (Hannity, Rush, Coulter, Malkin) deserve to be shot down, the more they are brandied about, the more they are looked up to and 'worshiped', the more they are trusted and the less likely it is for people to preface pointing someone in that direction.

It can be easy to simply send the video link of Beck to a neo-con friend and not bother to say, he's wrong on foriegn affairs, etc.

Eventually it just becomes about Beck. The personality. But hey whatever, I think enough people understand what is going on...

So I'll slowly keep building up that thread with evidence of more examples of MSM playing the false left / right. Who knows... soon we may see Bill O'Reilly swooning over Ron Paul, but that's probably taking it too far... no-one SANE would believe he 'converted'.

We've all pretty much come to the same conclusion, which is great. I'm just not sure how one group, misinterpreted it in the first place. Bah well. :D

[constituent]

I couldn't give a rat's behind what the people think who are trying to stop me. You can either stay, or go. I have absolutely no use for you constituent. you have done nothing but opposed our progress from day one. YOU are one of those to whom I refer when I speak of people 'inside our movement' killing our movement bit by bit.

Whose progress? I guess you missed "day 1." Or are you just making shit up again (as you are so frequently want to do)?



I will not mince words with you.

Gloves off, eh?

No, any smart "would be politician" wouldn't do that.

Of course, who said you were smart?



I do not have the luxury of time to be stroking your ego until you start to help.

LoL, luxury of time? Your sudden self-promotional slamming of the forums might suggest otherwise. Perhaps your ego is the only one you have time to stroke?

That's fine, I wouldn't let you touch me, let alone "stroke" me, perv.



You actively seek to block the progress of our movement at every turn

"Our movement?"

Well, since you've taken possession over it, perhaps you could try telling me what your movement is, where it is going, how it will get there and what the end result will look like.

And, not in your typical nebulous bullshit, either. Don't tell me, "restoring freedom" like last time.



and therefore you are enemy.

Are are what enemy?

Speaking of enemies, though:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image.php?u=8481&type=sigpic&dateline=1222243144

(that is what 'fascism' looks like, glad to know what side you fight for!)



That is all I need to know or care about from you.


^Right backatcha

[constituent]

Gunny was just trying to pump everyone up and announce his run for office.


Bingo



We could conquer this nation!


Sounds like Mussolini or Hitler, not sure which but maybe both...