Questions on apportioned taxation

[anaconda]

Had a few questions about public projects without the income tax...

1) Where did funds for the military come from before 1913?

2) How would a state finance something like a Hoover Dam?

3) Should all public projects not specified in the Constitution (ports, postal roads, etc. ) be performed by the states?

[anaconda]

Was the original idea for a U.S. military supposed to be an organized coalition of state militias, or was it supposed to be a federal military?

Sorry...another stupid question..

[demolama]

Funds for the military came out of the US treasury. The regular army was only around for a 2 year increment before it was either disbanded or refunded (see article 1 section 8).

There were small forces placed on the outskirts of the Appalachian mountains to fight off Indians but for the most part the professional soldier was non-existent until after the War of 1812.

The state militias were the defense for the most part with local funds being raised to supply local magazines for military supplies of gunpowder, musket balls, cannon balls, etc.

Funding for public works was done in many different ways in the 1800's. The states hired people to create bridges and such paid for out of the state treasury or by lottery.

If states can spend millions of dollars on sports arenas they can certainly come up with the funds to make dams.

Should states do internal improvements since the Constitution does not delegate that power to the federal government. Madison said yes. The problem is state governments can also fall into the trap of funding a boondoggle and is usually best left up to the people to improve their own areas.

Many canal and railroad companies created their own routes in order to cash in on transportation of goods without the use of any government (federal or state) subsidies.



"Starting in the late 1830s, many states subsidized the construction of canals and railroads—and the subsidies invariably turned out to be disastrous. . . . The failures of government-subsidized internal improvements were so pronounced that by 1860 Missouri and Massachusetts were the only two states in the union that had not yet amended their constitutions to prohibit internal improvement subsidies" ("How Capitalism Saved America" p. 88).

[anaconda]

Funds for the military came out of the US treasury

Thanks for the nice post. One question I had, though, was: How did the money get INTO the treasury? Was this simply the many sundry and varied revenue sources? i.e. tariffs, tolls, etc.?

[demolama]

tariffs on imports or duties apportioned among the several states.

This apportionment is what the 16th amendment removed allowing the federal government to tax the people directly rather than having to ask the states to come up with X amount of money.

[John of Des Moines]

May I suggest Irwin Schiff's book The Great Income Tax Hoax. It explains the difference between constitutional direct and indirect taxation.

[Nationwide]

1) through the Revenue Act of 1862 which created a tax on FEDERAL workers income. And through Lincolns printing of greenbacks (govt financed its own debt).
2) however a state wanted
3) Yes, unless the Constitution allows Congress to.

No, the 16th Amendment did NOT remove the apportionment requirement from direct taxation; it just closed a minor loophole.
Google 'Pete Hendrickson' his book/website explains EVERYTHING

[Danke]

tariffs on imports or duties apportioned among the several states.

This apportionment is what the 16th amendment removed allowing the federal government to tax the people directly rather than having to ask the states to come up with X amount of money.

Common misconception.


Tariffs and duties are indirect taxes, not apportioned but uniform throughout the States.

The people of the various States working in the private sector cannot be directly taxed by the federal government. The income tax is an excise tax (indirect tax).




No, the 16th Amendment did NOT remove the apportionment requirement from direct taxation; it just closed a minor loophole.
Google 'Pete Hendrickson' his book/website explains EVERYTHING

This.

[demolama]

You are correct and I was up too late last night when I replied :)

[Danke]

You are correct and I was up too late last night when I replied :)

Hey, I really like this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=173720

I will have to set aside some time to read it thoroughly.

It always seems just when think I have a grasp of the implications of 14th Amendment, I read another interpretation. There are so many conflicting opinions out there it seems.