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Revolution9
09-14-2007, 10:09 PM
http://www.renewamerica.us:80/

So..what do te punditry here think of this development.. Good or bad for Dr Paul?

Best
Randy

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 10:11 PM
OH crap!!!! It's not good. He'll pull some people from Dr. Paul. Long ago, I used to think he might be good, then I decided he was a total shill.

hells_unicorn
09-14-2007, 10:13 PM
I can't say either way, one possible outcome is that Keyes will fill the vacuum that Tancredo leaves when he bows out, which will hopefully happen soon. At least it will end this stupid debate about which party is pandering to multi-CULTuralists (ero racists) talking heads by putting up candidates of other races.

dmitchell
09-14-2007, 10:13 PM
I'm not too worried about this. I think Keyes is a bigger threat to Huckabee than to Ron Paul. In fact, I think Keyes pretty much is Huckabee.

I am surprised though. I thought Keyes was still reeling from his ignoble defeat by Barack Obama in Illinois.

mdh
09-14-2007, 10:21 PM
I could not hate this man more. He is scum of the earth for the way he treated his daughter.

bcmiller
09-14-2007, 10:25 PM
Wow, Keyes was my pic in 2000 and I ended up voting for Harry Browne because of him. I greatly respect Alan Keyes. I wonder if he isn't running for VP now.

However, he is pro-war and that will let him water down the rest of the GOP. He says about withdrawal from Iraq, "You call it defeat and surrender and we are fighting for our own survival"

He will come off as the Christian version of a Jihadist, unfortunately for him and unfairly. If you watch his debates against Obama for Illinois senate you will see his fate.

He must take some inspiration from the Ron Paul campaign but he is missing the mark by being dogmatic about "religious wars" instead of just bad foreign policy in the Middle East.

edit,
I have no idea what he did to his daughter.

MsDoodahs
09-14-2007, 10:25 PM
The GOP big dogs are really freaked out by RP - they're pulling out all the stops!

lol, wonder how much they paid Keyes to toss his hat in the ring?

james1844
09-14-2007, 10:26 PM
I think he will get zero support.

Bryan
09-14-2007, 10:26 PM
I use to think Keyes was alright until I heard this:

Alan Keyes talks to Ron Paul supporters about the Iraq war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuCjjAdTrE

Bottom line is he'll just further divide the pro-war neo-con vote.

Sematary
09-14-2007, 10:27 PM
OH crap!!!! It's not good. He'll pull some people from Dr. Paul. Long ago, I used to think he might be good, then I decided he was a total shill.

Anybody who supports Ron Pauls positions would never switch to that Jackoff.

Hook
09-14-2007, 10:28 PM
I liked Keyes until he became pro war. He actually understands the Constitution much better than most of the GOP.

Hook
09-14-2007, 10:29 PM
I wish that Walter Williams would join. Other than he puts people to sleep whenever he talks.

LizF
09-14-2007, 10:31 PM
I'm not too worried about this. I think Keyes is a bigger threat to Huckabee than to Ron Paul. In fact, I think Keyes pretty much is Huckabee.

I am surprised though. I thought Keyes was still reeling from his ignoble defeat by Barack Obama in Illinois.

Agreed. Unless he is against the war (which I don't believe he is), I don't think he brings much of anything new to the table at this point, except to split the neocon vote. Considering that he hasn't been able to win political office before now, and because he's as interesting as Chris Dodd (read: not very intersting), I don't see Keyes as a big threat.

I also doubt that his candidacy would get a warm blessing from the White House (Cheney):

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes

"Keyes was also criticized for his views on homosexuality. In an interview with Michelangelo Signorile, a gay radio host, Keyes defined homosexuality as centering in the pursuit of pleasure, literally "selfish hedonism." When Signorile asked if Mary Cheney, Vice President Dick Cheney's avowed lesbian daughter, fit the description and was therefore a "selfish hedonist," Keyes replied, "Of course she is. That goes by definition."[20] Media sources picked up on the exchange, claiming that Keyes had "trashed," "attacked," and "lashed out at" Mary Cheney, and had called her a "sinner" – provoking condemnation of Keyes by gay Republicans and several GOP leaders. [21] [22] Keyes noted that it was an interviewer, not he, who brought up Mary Cheney's name in the above incident, and he told reporters, "You have [tried] to personalize the discussion of an issue that I did not personalize. The people asking me the question did so, and if that's inappropriate, blame the media. Don't blame me."[23][24] [25]"

10thAmendmentMan
09-14-2007, 10:32 PM
Now we just need Gingrich to join in on the fun and we can have a two-page ballot!

hard@work
09-14-2007, 10:32 PM
If you saw the rally in Seattle tonight you won't be disheartened at all.

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 10:33 PM
Anybody who supports Ron Pauls positions would never switch to that Jackoff.

I agree. But we need more than THREE PERCENT to win the nomination. In other words, we have to get a LOT more people on board.

Hook
09-14-2007, 10:34 PM
The way things are going, the pool may be so diluted that 3% will win :)

mdh
09-14-2007, 10:38 PM
I wish that Walter Williams would join. Other than he puts people to sleep whenever he talks.

Walter Williams would be a problem for us though.

bcmiller
09-14-2007, 10:39 PM
Holy crap I withdraw what I said about respecting Alan Keyes after listening to that youtube video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuCjjAdTrE)

here is my comment from Youtube

I can't believe I voted for this guy in the 2000 primary. His opinion would only work if the terrorists were zero sum. He missed entirely the point that we create more terrorists when we do this. Imagine if you made new roaches by spraying bug spray. He is a madman and I would not vote for him to be dogcatcher.

I would hate to have a commander in chief who thinks that the armed forces loves to go to war and does not mind dying as he said in this quote.

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 10:40 PM
I remember way back, my mother really liked Keyes, but I remember her later totally turning against him. I can't remember the reasons. But, it must have been something quite substantial. Does anyone know if he's CFR?

amberj
09-14-2007, 10:41 PM
I use to think Keyes was alright until I heard this:

Alan Keyes talks to Ron Paul supporters about the Iraq war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuCjjAdTrE

Bottom line is he'll just further divide the pro-war neo-con vote.

Dang it Bryan, you beat me to it! We have a transcript of it as well... he says some pretty bad things.

Noog
09-14-2007, 10:44 PM
Perhaps he can take up the "kook" mantel.

hells_unicorn
09-14-2007, 10:49 PM
I remember way back, my mother really liked Keyes, but I remember her later totally turning against him. I can't remember the reasons. But, it must have been something quite substantial. Does anyone know if he's CFR?

I'm not sure about him being attached to the CFR, but he lost my respect when he went into that ridiculous anti-gay tirade about Dick Cheney's daughter. I often like to think that the good old Catholic Church is able to keep a lid on the kooks it keeps in it's walls, sadly this doesn't always hold up. Even the ultra-socially conservative priest at my old church in Maryland cringed at the thought of this guy being our president.

mdh
09-14-2007, 10:55 PM
I'm not sure about him being attached to the CFR, but he lost my respect when he went into that ridiculous anti-gay tirade about Dick Cheney's daughter. I often like to think that the good old Catholic Church is able to keep a lid on the kooks it keeps in it's walls, sadly this doesn't always hold up. Even the ultra-socially conservative priest at my old church in Maryland cringed at the thought of this guy being our president.

Alan Keyes' own daughter is a lesbian.

LizF
09-14-2007, 10:55 PM
I could not hate this man more. He is scum of the earth for the way he treated his daughter.

Agreed...hardly a high point for him.

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 10:56 PM
We probably should backup that youtube, just in case it mysteriously disappears. :)

Cunningham
09-14-2007, 10:57 PM
Jesus, Alan Keyes has turned into a complete crack pot. So, his rational for iraq is that we needed a place to get the terrorists to attack us so we could fight them? Are you fucking kidding me. So all the people caught in the cross fire for your strategy are just SOL I guess. When he does the gravelly voice thing he really sounds like he's coming unhinged.

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 10:57 PM
Agreed...hardly a high point for him.

What did he do to his daughter?

Ron Paul Fan
09-14-2007, 11:02 PM
What did he do to his daughter?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20005-2005Feb12.html

hells_unicorn
09-14-2007, 11:11 PM
We probably should backup that youtube, just in case it mysteriously disappears. :)

I'm on it right now.

jpa
09-14-2007, 11:14 PM
ummm he is 0-5 in political campaigns.

He will pull support away from huckabee & brownback (maybe) not Paul.

Bryan
09-14-2007, 11:18 PM
Dang it Bryan, you beat me to it!
:D


We probably should backup that youtube, just in case it mysteriously disappears. :)
There are several copies in Houston- it was taped by a friend of mine (anti-TTC, pro-Ron Paul), I put the slideshow together and got it on youtube so I've got a copy. :)

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 11:20 PM
I don't know if Keyes is like-minded, but he was Bill Kristol's roommate at Harvard. As you know, Bill Kristol is a major, major neocon. In fact, he very well may be the head one.

LibertyEagle
09-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Thanks, Ron Paul Fan, for the article. Wow, that's pretty bad, the way he treated his daughter.

quickmike
09-14-2007, 11:36 PM
WOW!!!

Keyes sounds like a complete nut in this youtube thing.

He says "do we want terrorists coming to america killing unarmed civilians, or do we want well armed military killing them over there?"

How about this Keyes, ya douche............ well armed americans using the second ammendment rights right here at home defending ourselves from anyone who might want to kill us.

Im so tired of all the neo-cons and war mongers telling us we are too weak and scared to protect our own homes and cities by ourselves. Common sense tells me we wouldnt need to if we stopped f--king with people all over the world and telling them its our god given right to take their natural resources as our own.

What a bunch of chicken shits!


I dont think this guy would take a single vote from RP................ too huge a contrast between the two.

axiomata
09-14-2007, 11:39 PM
From his 2000 campaign:


On U.S. interventionism in the world

I would want to renounce the idea that we have the right to interfere, in an aggressive way, with the affairs of other [nations]. I think we can play a constructive role in trying to bring about diplomatic solutions in different parts of the world, but I do not believe that when our ideas are rejected, we should resort to war in order to force people to accept a deal that's dictated on our terms.

What went wrong?

quickmike
09-14-2007, 11:45 PM
From his 2000 campaign:



What went wrong?

Sounds to me like hes turned into one of those scared little politicians that is more afraid of the big bad wolf than he is of losing our liberty right here at home.

pathetic

they walked in line
09-14-2007, 11:53 PM
I liked Keyes until he became pro war.

Yes.
At one time, Keyes was actually a very effective critic of Clinton's wars.

Delaware
09-14-2007, 11:54 PM
He's even later than Fred Thompson

Karsten
09-14-2007, 11:59 PM
MSM isn't covering his enterance at all. We even have better coverage than this guy.

quickmike
09-15-2007, 12:04 AM
MSM isn't covering his enterance at all. We even have better coverage than this guy.

Uh............... I dont know if thats something to brag about:D

RP4ME
09-15-2007, 12:16 AM
this campaign is Insanity - perry form tx is suppsoedly campaigning too!

trispear
09-15-2007, 12:22 AM
Alan Keyes is a multiple time loser who no one else cares about.

Who cares. Let's not give him a spot light.

walt
09-15-2007, 04:44 AM
The only reason this concerns me is that Keyes is a good debater and can split time and not let people hear Ron Paul. :mad:

But that Washington Post story makes what we must do very clear. We should find Maya Keyes, engage her in conversation (extremely nicely), educate her about Dr. Paul and get her to endorse Ron Paul in person with Ron Paul on the stage with her ASAP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Keyes

Edit: Maya is not at Brown per a recent entry on her blog about a medical problem. http://absolutverve.blogspot.com/

walt
09-15-2007, 05:08 AM
From his 2000 campaign:



What went wrong?

This is an excellent question. I went and asked someone that used to support Keyes in fact.

They said:
"It is not a belief change as much as it is a policy shift in understanding in light of 911."
Then later:
"It is called transformation--adapting--change"

Though Dr. Paul has said it in fragments, I never put together pieces of this puzzle and associated with people who changed their views until - just now.

so I'd ask this can we make a complete list of Respublicans that were anti-war before 9/11 that are pro-war now? we ned to point to these flip floppers and encourage them to flip back and in doing so they'd have to support Dr. Paul.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 05:10 AM
...

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 05:53 AM
I thought this was an interesting post over on Keyes' site:


In Rome the Gracchus brothers pushed through a number of reform measures. But each in turn was assassinated, and their reforms were quickly overturned. They had not changed the political paradigm, but merely forced through a few bills. For real renewal, reforms must outlast their creators. Their mother's grave was treated as a sort of liberal temple, but the opponents had all the power.

Keyes has a great grasp of the moral issues. But he would be dealing not with moralists but with legislators. As we have seen so often, this group is not full of moral paragons.

Paul is addressing the government from the legislative viewpoint. He tells people to decide: "What do we really want from government?" It is the critical question. If we want government to do everything, then we must relinquish to it all power over our lives -- as we have been doing.

Can government address all issues of morality? Should it? Keyes would not say that it can and should. Yet his emphasis suggests government doing just that, at least to many minds.

If people expect Nanny to create morality through legislation, we are left with the same big-government paradigm we already have, and after a Keyes administration -- perhaps even during -- it would soon be subverted. There is no quarantee that a Paul administration would straighten it all out permanently, either, but with emphasis on limited government it would stand a better chance.

ButchHowdy
09-15-2007, 06:00 AM
Q: What is worse than being a member of the CFR?

A: Being a student or protege of communist philosopher Leo Strauss


Indeed, author Shadia B. Drury, in her 1997 book, Leo Strauss and the American Right, named the following prominent Washington players as among Strauss' protégés: Paul Wolfowitz; Supreme Court Justic Clarence Thomas; Judge Robert Bork; neo-con propagandist and former Dan Quayle chief of staff, William Kristol; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; the National Review publisher William F. Buckley; former Reagan Administration official Alan Keyes; current White House bio-ethics advisor Francis Fukuyama; Attorney General John Ashcroft; and William Galston, former Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and co-author, with Elaine Kamark, of the Joe Lieberman-led Democratic Leadership Council's policy blueprint.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 06:12 AM
The only reason this concerns me is that Keyes is a good debater and can split time and not let people hear Ron Paul. :mad:

[/B]

Well, plus Keyes attracts people who are against NAFTA, NAU, illegal immigration, all the unconstitutional legislation having been passed, etc. Sound familiar? Keyes is a pretty big constitutionalist too.

Back in the day, he was well known and liked by traditional conservatives and people who saw what was going on in our country.

So yes, I'm concerned, even though he is for this war, that he is going to serve as an alternative for people who would otherwise be looking at Dr. Paul. :(

walt
09-15-2007, 06:21 AM
First they ignore you...
Then they laugh at you...
Then they attack you...

From an alan keyes forum...


As far as the difference between Alan Keyes and Ron Paul, there are some significant differences--

1. Alan Keyes bases all his beliefs on moral premises--and in politics, he takes those moral premises from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. He further believes that it is impossible to understand the Founders' intent regarding the Constitution without placing higher priority on the Declaration.

Ron Paul never talks in such terms, to my knowledge, and if he does, such priorities are not central to his campaign.

2. Alan Keyes' main message is that America must return to its Declaration-based moral values or it will not survive. To him, this message is more important than the Constitution. He believes that we could follow the Constitution, in principle, and still collapse as a country, if we do not place primary emphasis on God-centered morality in public policy.

Ron Paul never talks in such terms. I believe he is basically a moral individual--but the above is not the focus of his campaign.

3. Alan Keyes wrote his PhD dissertation at Harvard on the Constitution and understands it thoroughly. He is a genuine constitutional scholar, and he can articulate better than anyone else in American politics what the Constitution actually means.

Ron Paul has some serious gaps in his understanding of the Constitution, despite his professed adherence to the document. For one thing, he claims that he is standing on the Constitution when he says that abortion and same-sex marriage should be left to the states. The Constitution does not sanction such a view.

Alan Keyes is the closest thing to a dirty bomb they've got. This post gives insigts into the battle plan to discredit Ron Paul's beliefs via Keyes rhetoric. A look at Google News shows they've been planning this for a while. I think an arguement about the Constitution versus the Declaration of Independence backfires on them because it moves the center of the debate looking at the item in #1.

Fred, Keyes, who's next?

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 06:24 AM
Yeah Walt, but if you look at the comments following that blog, more than a couple of people did not agree with it. I deleted the reference to what you decided to re-post, because I didn't want to attract people to go over there and start blasting away. If we do that, we will convince them for sure. To vote for Keyes, that is.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 06:26 AM
Q: What is worse than being a member of the CFR?

A: Being a student or protege of communist philosopher Leo Strauss


Indeed, author Shadia B. Drury, in her 1997 book, Leo Strauss and the American Right, named the following prominent Washington players as among Strauss' protégés: Paul Wolfowitz; Supreme Court Justic Clarence Thomas; Judge Robert Bork; neo-con propagandist and former Dan Quayle chief of staff, William Kristol; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; the National Review publisher William F. Buckley; former Reagan Administration official Alan Keyes; current White House bio-ethics advisor Francis Fukuyama; Attorney General John Ashcroft; and William Galston, former Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and co-author, with Elaine Kamark, of the Joe Lieberman-led Democratic Leadership Council's policy blueprint.

Ahhh... that's interesting for sure. Thanks.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n11_v29/ai_20017404

Badger Paul
09-15-2007, 07:24 AM
What Keyes lacks in money he more than makes up in ego, I'll give him that. He has never won an election in his life but that doesn't stop him from from trying. It doesn't matter if he's never been close to winning an election in his life, his camapaigns are usually embarassments that the GOP party brass disavow and there's usually an FEC investigation that shorty follows. Like Harold Stassen, Keyes runs for public office because he can. He enjoys it. He makes money off of it. It defines who he is. So why stop?

Who does it hurt, if it hurts anyone at all? Brownback first and foremost because it cuts right into his potential voting base and to a lesser extent Hucakbee. Actually a Keyes run is kind of embarassing to Huckabee because you would think Huckabee, to be successful would want to gather in all the religious conservatives into his flock, and yet he cannot seem to do so. Maybe it's the bass guitar. Brownback is pretty much toast anyway but if Keyes can cut into Huckabee's potential vote it's actually a plus for RP. Let 'em duke it out for a narrow slice of the electorate.

Does this hurt RP? No because I doubt if a Keyes voter is an RP voter to begin with. You're talking about Pentacostals mostly, fanatical types. When Keyes ran for the U.S. Senate in Illinois four years ago he ran on a platform of slave reparations, bringing back the draft and keeping the Department of Agriculture. Not exactly an RP platform there. Oh and if Keyes is kept out of any futurre TV debates, look for him to chain himself to the studio door and claim he's being denied his rights because he's black. He truly is the Republican Jesse Jackson.

He's also good entertainment so sit back and what the spectacle that is Alan Keyes.

allyinoh
09-15-2007, 07:42 AM
Eh, I'm not worried. Like someone said, it further dilutes the pro-war vote and possibly the Christian vote, so this is good for RP.

Hurricane Bruiser
09-15-2007, 07:50 AM
What a piece of scum. He will not pull from Ron Paul supporters at all.

stevedasbach
09-15-2007, 08:07 AM
Has Keyes ever been elected to anything?

Chester Copperpot
09-15-2007, 08:28 AM
http://www.renewamerica.us:80/

So..what do te punditry here think of this development.. Good or bad for Dr Paul?

Best
Randy

I dont think itll hurt him.. Keyes is against the IRS, but I dont know if hes for replacing or just abolishing the income tax.... He should further dilute the pro-war vote.

stevedasbach
09-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Look for Keyes to take on RP ala Huckabee. Keyes is a very skilled speaker and can demogogue issues very effectively.

Chester Copperpot
09-15-2007, 08:32 AM
Look for Keyes to take on RP ala Huckabee. Keyes is a very skilled speaker and can demogogue issues very effectively.

Yeah im not sure if this is a neocon trick or just alan keyes trying to get into every election in the last 2 decades

libertarian4321
09-15-2007, 08:41 AM
Keyes won't pull anyone from Ron Paul.

Keyes has become progressively more radical on social issues- he'll be vying for the neocon vote- he's a pro war nut and a religious right nut- not exactly the folks that are likely to support Dr. Paul.

BTW, is it just me, or is Alan Keyes becoming nuttier every year? I remember that at one time (1996), he made some sense, but listening to that video, he sounds like he's one step from the looney bin...

Original_Intent
09-15-2007, 09:18 AM
I supported Keyes in 2000, but he is nothing compared to Ron Paul. I don't think we have a thing to worry about from him, and honestly I don't think any of the of the other candidates do either. He is trying to emulate Ron Paul by saying his campaign will require "citizen activists" but the man lacks the vision to generate that activism.

There are definitely worse choices than Keyes, but the only RP support I could see him taking is if RP has some pro-war supporters.

Of all the current presidential candidates, Keyes would probably make the best VP if he could be brought to see the light on the war.

BuddyRey
09-15-2007, 09:21 AM
Alan Keyes is neocon-lite. I don't think he'll take any RP supporters with him. But I am ticked off that his entrance will mean less speaking time for Ron during the debates!!!

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 09:21 AM
Eh, I'm not worried. Like someone said, it further dilutes the pro-war vote and possibly the Christian vote, so this is good for RP.

I hate to tell you, but WE NEED some of those Christian voters. It is the Christian block getting involved in politics that was largely responsible for the resurgence of so-called conservatism back with Reagan.

You guys keep saying that Keyes won't take any Ron Paul supporters. Well, you're probably right that he won't take any current Ron Paul supporters. But, I know it is not news that we need to get one hell of a lot more people on board in order to win the Republican nomination. We can't win with 3 for 4 percent. I don't like Keyes entering the race, because he is an alternative for those undecided voters worried about the NAU, illegal immigration, world government, etc. These are also big platforms for Keyes, in addition to his strong stance on the Constitution and his Christianity. Keyes will not win, but I am concerned about undecided voters choosing him, instead of Paul.

MsDoodahs
09-15-2007, 09:47 AM
That's precisely why the big dogs inside the GOP have gotten him to enter the race.

And that he was willing to enter the race tells you something, too - he's no different than all the other GOP traitors.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 09:51 AM
That's precisely why the big dogs inside the GOP have gotten him to enter the race.

And that he was willing to enter the race tells you something, too - he's no different than all the other GOP traitors.

Yup, and that quote above by ButchHowdy showing that Keyes was a student of Strauss, along with Kristol, just about sums it all up, I think.

axiomata
09-15-2007, 10:05 AM
That's precisely why the big dogs inside the GOP have gotten him to enter the race.

And that he was willing to enter the race tells you something, too - he's no different than all the other GOP traitors.
That's the only reason I didn't vote for him in the Illinois Senate race in 2004 against Obama. He was obviously on orders from someone somewhere to try and contest Obama. And the whole thing with his daughter didn't help either.

misconstrued
09-15-2007, 10:08 AM
We probably should backup that youtube, just in case it mysteriously disappears. :)

You can download it here:
http://ash-v127.ash.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=xIuCjjAdTrE

Just add .flv to the end of the "get_video" file after it's downloaded. You can play the flv file with Media Player Classic or Video LAN.

You can also download the video in any format you want (mpeg, ipod video, etc) here: http://mux.am/

Just paste the YouTube URL into the URL field and go go mux ;)

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 10:33 AM
Oh hell, I say let 'em bring 'em all on. Including Newt.

Let's all get busy and upset their little apple cart, folks. We really can do it.

I'm sick of these %$$%^%^ thinking they control us. I've got the tar; you bring the feathers, after we win. ;)

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 10:41 AM
http://www.alankeyes.com/

mdh
09-15-2007, 10:44 AM
You guys keep saying that Keyes won't take any Ron Paul supporters. Well, you're probably right that he won't take any current Ron Paul supporters.

You'd be surprised how many evangelical single-issue-Christian-values voters we have on board now, then. Whether we lose any to Keyes depends on how well we do and how well Keyes' campaign does. Most of the Christian conservatives I know are, despite the gay thing, quite unhappy with Keyes after they find out about his abandonment of his daughter - the way he did it comes across as being a solely political decision, and putting politics before your family plays VERY poorly with these people. (As well it should with every moral person, regardless of the daughter's sexuality/politics/whatever else.)

WillInMiami
09-15-2007, 11:04 AM
I'm not going to switch my vote in the primaries - I'm sticking with Ron Paul. However, I've spent alot of time listening to Keyes (when he was running for President the last time) and, I must tell you, he holds MANY of the same views as Dr. Paul. He's against the WTO, NAFTA, and the UN. He knows that China is a real threat to us and he knows how they are trying to beat us (financially and strategically). He knows the constitution and he's VERY conservative (both socially and fiscally). The one major difference between them is that Keyes supports the war in Iraq. And remember this, there is a difference in the war against islamofacist and the Iraq war. Both Dr. Paul and Keyes know that we are truly in a war against islamofacists.

I would like to see Ron Paul as President and Keyes as VP.

PS. He's right about soldiers knowing and wanting to be put in danger- that's what soldiers do. I was a paratrooper, when I was in, we knew that we were the soldiers and that it was our job to fight. We not only accept that, we volunteer for it. I'm not opposed to having our soldiers fight the terrorists. I'm simply opposed to the money we're spending to try and rebuild a country that's not stepping up to the job of fighting for their own freedom.

stevedasbach
09-15-2007, 11:07 AM
(Alexa) Traffic Rank for alankeyes.com: 1,291,836

Let's if he gets a bump out of this, or out of his appearance at the Values Voters debate. Also, it will be interesting to see if he gets invited to any other debates.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 11:10 AM
(Alexa) Also, it will be interesting to see if he gets invited to any other debates.

I am seriously hoping that he does not.

We really need to turn up our efforts several notches right now. People can steal our message, because we have not gotten it out there yet good enough. Keyes, on the other hand, has a lot of the same stances as Paul and I do not want people hearing the message from him first.

Thom1776
09-15-2007, 11:14 AM
That's the best thing to do. Let other people bring him up. Then say: "Oh, really? That's nice. Good for him!" and move on.

And with this post, I am done discussing him.

BillyDkid
09-15-2007, 11:32 AM
Nobody takes Keyes seriously. It is irrelevant to the RP campaign.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 11:35 AM
Nobody takes Keyes seriously. It is irrelevant to the RP campaign.

You're wrong. There is a solid group of traditional conservatives who DO take him very seriously.

smtwngrl
09-15-2007, 11:39 AM
Let's if he gets a bump out of this, or out of his appearance at the Values Voters debate. Also, it will be interesting to see if he gets invited to any other debates.

I wonder if he has been invited to this one. OK, I know that sounds like a strange question. But at least once before he went to a debate, assuming that he was invited since he was a candidate, and he was not. And since he just announced yesterday, and he hadn't said he was going to be a announcing it, I can't help but wonder.

mwkaufman
09-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Ron Paul has some serious gaps in his understanding of the Constitution, despite his professed adherence to the document. For one thing, he claims that he is standing on the Constitution when he says that abortion and same-sex marriage should be left to the states. The Constitution does not sanction such a view.

Oh really?


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.

I'm pretty sure the Constitution didn't mention same-sex marriage or abortion.

Bobby Johnson
09-15-2007, 11:52 AM
I believe Alan Keyes could be a potential threat to Ron Paul. Liberty Eagle is right. Alan Keyes has no chance of winning. However, he does have enough of a following among traditional Christian convervatives to pull those people away from Ron Paul. If I was not aware of Ron Paul, I would be voting for Alan Keyes hands down. It's not that I agree with every stand Mr. Keyes takes, however, I really did not like the current slate of Republican candidates prior to Ron Paul. I am a Christian so much of what Keyes talks about WOULD appeal to the average Christian voter. Remember, so called "values voters" made a big difference in the 2000 and 2004 elections.Keyes could even pull undecided voters who are dissatisfied with the way things have been going under our current President.(ie. NAU, immigration, government spending, etc.)

This just makes me even more determined to see Ron Paul as our next President.

smtwngrl
09-15-2007, 11:52 AM
I hate to tell you, but WE NEED some of those Christian voters. It is the Christian block getting involved in politics that was largely responsible for the resurgence of so-called conservatism back with Reagan.

You guys keep saying that Keyes won't take any Ron Paul supporters. Well, you're probably right that he won't take any current Ron Paul supporters. But, I know it is not news that we need to get one hell of a lot more people on board in order to win the Republican nomination. We can't win with 3 for 4 percent. I don't like Keyes entering the race, because he is an alternative for those undecided voters worried about the NAU, illegal immigration, world government, etc. These are also big platforms for Keyes, in addition to his strong stance on the Constitution and his Christianity. Keyes will not win, but I am concerned about undecided voters choosing him, instead of Paul.

I agree. I voted for Keyes in 1996 and 2000, but I'm not happy to see him entering the race now. Keyes is a constitutionalist--or used to be. He, like others, has changed since 911. I haven't really followed him since he ran for president before, so I don't know if he's changed on any other issues along with the war one. For example, what would be say about torture, or infringement on liberty to "keep us safe"?

I think he could be the biggest threat Ron Paul has. He's also a good debater, and he says--or used to say what he believed, and didn't just say what he thought the voters wanted to hear. I just hope it will turn out better than it seems.

smtwngrl
09-15-2007, 12:09 PM
I don't want to be totally negative, though.

1. Keyes may have debating skill, but his knowledge of economics, history, etc. does not in any way compare with Ron Paul's. In other words, to implement constitutional ideas, you not only favor them, but to have the knowledge to be able to do. Additionally, Ron Paul is the only one who can manage money well enough to give us a small government.

2. If Keyes does speak out strongly against things like torture, that could be good. Perhaps if there are more speaking against it, people will think about it more and not just accept it.

3. Those who are pro-war, but don't like the others, may vote for Keyes, and take votes away from the first tier.

4. Ron Paul is still the only one who is against the war, and against pre-emptive war.

Santana28
09-15-2007, 12:23 PM
i'm not worried about Keyes. Now if they were to pay Nader enough money to pretend he was running again... i'd be scared. I think Nader has already kinda made it known that they wanted him to, but he didn't want to.

Another slow-moving adjustment from the GOP. its too late for Keyes to take any votes, unless he suddenly comes up with a $15 mil marketing campaign overnight.

LibertyEagle
09-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Nader being in the race would pull about zero conservatives and Republicans. He might would impact us in the general election, but if we do not get the Republican nomination, we're done.

Brasil Branco
09-15-2007, 12:26 PM
Maybe they want to revamp the image of the Republican party?

I mean, as it is- it's 10 white guys on the stage.

Meanwhile, the Democrats have a latino, an "African-American", and a woman.

I mean, that's not doing any favours for the Republican party.

Lord Xar
09-15-2007, 12:27 PM
i'm not worried about Keyes. Now if they were to pay Nader enough money to pretend he was running again... i'd be scared. I think Nader has already kinda made it known that they wanted him to, but he didn't want to.

Another slow-moving adjustment from the GOP. its too late for Keyes to take any votes, unless he suddenly comes up with a $15 mil marketing campaign overnight.

Well, "IF" he all of suddden has MILLIONS in hand, we will know for sure this is underhanded plan of the bankers/elits. I mean, this guy is starting way late, so how does he have money? Plus, perhaps Ron Paul can just say to him in the debates "You come along to dilute my message at the behest of special interests. You will not. The American people want change from the corruption and elitism. I will bring that change. All of you are just the same, but wearing different suites"

BillyDkid
09-15-2007, 12:29 PM
I believe Alan Keyes could be a potential threat to Ron Paul. Liberty Eagle is right. Alan Keyes has no chance of winning. However, he does have enough of a following among traditional Christian convervatives to pull those people away from Ron Paul. If I was not aware of Ron Paul, I would be voting for Alan Keyes hands down. It's not that I agree with every stand Mr. Keyes takes, however, I really did not like the current slate of Republican candidates prior to Ron Paul. I am a Christian so much of what Keyes talks about WOULD appeal to the average Christian voter. Remember, so called "values voters" made a big difference in the 2000 and 2004 elections.Keyes could even pull undecided voters who are dissatisfied with the way things have been going under our current President.(ie. NAU, immigration, government spending, etc.)

This just makes me even more determined to see Ron Paul as our next President.I just don't happen to believe it is the Christian conservatives who will make Ron Paul President. It is the many millions of dissaffected people who have felt until now that participation was futile. I realize that everyone looks at this from their own perspective, but tell me, how many of the thousands of youtube videos and comment have you seen that start with "I never was interested in politics..." or "I never supported a Presidential candidate...." or "I never could see any reason to be involved in politics....". While the right wing activist, Christian type may be an important group in terms of getting the nomination in closed primary states - I think it is all the people who have never had a stake in politics any hope of changing things that will get RP elected. And while Keyes may share some views with Ron Paul, he is also delusional and extremist in many ways.