Feds grant EMINENT DOMAIN as collateral to China for US debts![Mod Note: Unconfirmed]

[ImpeachKingGeorgeII]

The "United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's continued purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves ... The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China."
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f8_1235673139

Is this true?

[FrankRep]

What's the source?

[Kotin]

even if it was true people would never stand for it.

[ImpeachKingGeorgeII]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f8_1235673139
http://www.halturnershow.blogspot.com/2009/02/feds-grant-eminent-domain-as-collateral.html

[ihsv]

Turner? :rolleyes:

[KCIndy]

even if it was true people would never stand for it.

I hope it's not true....

But as far as "people not standing for it" don't be surprised if the actions were taken via a third party... "the people" would probably never know, at least until it was too late, that China was the driving force.

Instead, the story would probably be spread that "Corporation X" is moving in to develop an area and create much-needed jobs for the local economy... huzzah.... and no one would realize "Corporation X" was simply a front for Beijing.

[FrankRep]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f8_1235673139
http://www.halturnershow.blogspot.com/2009/02/feds-grant-eminent-domain-as-collateral.html
Real sources please

[FrankRep]

China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasuries, Yu Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=a_dsDz145J_A

[Kotin]

I hope it's not true....

But as far as "people not standing for it" don't be surprised if the actions were taken via a third party... "the people" would probably never know, at least until it was too late, that China was the driving force.

Instead, the story would probably be spread that "Corporation X" is moving in to develop an area and create much-needed jobs for the local economy... huzzah.... and no one would realize "Corporation X" was simply a front for Beijing.

that is certainly a possibility..

[MrNick]

Eminent domain?

[Original_Intent]

even if it was true people would never stand for it.

There was a time when people thought "we" would never stand for giving the Panama Canal to China either...

[JordanL]

halturnershow?

Perhaps a real source?

The Supreme Court would throw a fit about this, no matter who appointed who...


There was a time when people thought "we" would never stand for giving the Panama Canal to China either...

We gave it to Panama...

[HOLLYWOOD]

Hell, Mexico put up Baja California as Collateral for the US Loans years ago. Mexico's Peso is tanking right now and they are in trouble.

Right now, this frigin country(government) is turning the MATRIX movie into reality. I witnessed an awful lot when I supported the government, but now, the Fascist state is running full speed to Totalitarianism

Everyone I am having conversations, Friends, colleagues, neighbors, business people... ALL have had it with government at all levels. I am getting a lot of feedback now from the Obama Flocks and they are disappointed and starting to get pissed at all the broken promises.

It shows you... government is creating for themselves/corporatism/Wealth... the people get the afterbirth.

PS: The latest rumors are the government/banks setting up the repurchase/purchasing of foreclosed/depressed assets. RUMOR, but the talk is Government/Banks to make more off the people coming and going.

It's so blatantly obvious now... CITI another $100 Billion on the backroom deal. :(

[Athan]

It is fucking clear that the people will stand for it because they are too fucking stupid and brainwashed. Our self proclaimed "patriot" federal agents would also bend over for china over the US and watch such a transfer of assets happen without even remorse.

I mean that is what has happened. We've already sold all of our shit to china. All they have to do is collect.

[emazur]

I just came across this article from 2006 and was going to make a separate thread for it, but given the parallels of baking paper with land I think I'll post here instead (I didn't copy the entire article, just sections of it)
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/casey/2006/1228.html

In 1789, on the eve of the French Revolution, the French government found itself in deep trouble with heavy debt loads and chronic deficits. A general lack of confidence in the business world had led to the decline of investment, and the economy was stagnating.

“Statesmanlike measures, careful watching and wise management would, doubtless, have ere long led to a return of confidence,” writes White, “a reappearance of money and a resumption of business; but these involved patience and self-denial, and, thus far in human history, these are the rarest products of political wisdom. Few nations have ever been able to exercise these virtues; and France was not then one of these few.”

Instead, as politicians tend to do, France’s National Assembly looked for a shortcut to prosperity, and soon calls for the introduction of paper money were heard. Some prudent individuals, such as then-Minister of Finance Jacques Necker, urgently warned against it.

the government would confiscate the lands of the French Church—which then owned between one-fourth and one-third of all French real estate—and issue a total of no more than 400 million livres in large notes of 1,000, 300 and 200 livres, called assignats, that would be backed by a piece of land. Moreover, every note would bear 3% interest, to encourage holders to hoard them.

The influx of fresh money would give the French treasury “something to pay out immediately. . . relieve the national necessities. . . stimulate business. . . [and] give to all capitalists, large or small, the means for buying from the nation the ecclesiastical real estate.” From the proceeds, the nation would pay its debts and obtain new funds for new necessities—a bullet-proof proposal, or so it seemed.

At first, the results of issuing the assignats appeared to be a dream come true, says White: “the treasury was at once greatly relieved; a portion of the public debt was paid; creditors were encouraged; credit revived; ordinary expenses were met. . . trade increased and all difficulties seemed to vanish.”

Had the authorities stopped there, White suggests, the effects might actually have been beneficial. Regretfully, though, “within five months after the issue of the four hundred million in assignats, the government had spent them and was again in distress.”

Immediately people throughout the country started to cry for another issue of notes. Paper critics cautioned that there’d be no stopping once the nation had stepped onto the slippery slope of inflation, but others dismissed the warning, saying “the people were now in control and that they could and would check these issues whenever they desired.”

By 1790, the paper-pushers had persuaded themselves that specie [precious metals, coins] was an outmoded form of currency… after all, what could be better than money backed by land that would only appreciate in value? It eerily reminds us of the U.S. housing boom and the easy, no-holds-barred mortgage deals that have been sold to sub-prime borrowers.

Or take the Comte de Mirabeau, one of the greatest paper advocates and demagogues, who at that time gave his powerful “Stay the Course” speech, concluding “We must accomplish that which we have begun.”

Or Pierre Paul Royer-Collard, who sounded disturbingly like Ben “Helicopter” Bernanke when he told the National Assembly, “If it is necessary to create five thousand millions, and more, of the paper, decree such a creation gladly.”

It was a done deal, and France began its slide into inflation.

And just like today’s Americans, who happily spend money they haven’t yet earned, “Frenchmen now became desperate optimists, declaring that inflation is prosperity. . . The nation was becoming inebriated with paper money. The good feeling was that of a drunkard just after his draught; and. . . as draughts of paper money came faster, the successive periods of good feeling grew shorter.”

Yet more and more signs of the coming cataclysm started to appear. Even though the amount of paper money had increased, prosperity had faded. Business became stagnant, and manufacturers starting laying off workers. In one town, 5,000 workmen were discharged from the cloth factories, but people still didn’t recognize the real cause. Exports were too cheap, they claimed, and heavy tariffs were placed on foreign goods.

A collapse in manufacturing and commerce was inevitable, says White, “just as it came at various periods in [France], Austria, Russia, America, and in all countries where men have tried to build up prosperity on irredeemable paper.”

Faced with the prospect of a continuing devaluation of paper money, the public began to see saving and caution as foolish, and the naturally thrifty French turned into a nation of gluttons and gamblers. People started to throw their money haphazardly at the stock market and “in the country at large there grew a dislike of steady labor and a contempt for moderate gains and simple living.”

One economic perversion bred the next. The Comte de Mirabeau’s previous claims that patriotism and enlightened self-interest of the people would maintain the value of the paper money couldn’t have been more wrong. In fact, a vast debtor class, consisting mainly of those who had purchased the church lands from the government, proved to have a vested interest in the depreciation of the currency. Since only small down payments had been required, with the balance to be paid in deferred installments, land buyers were hoping for a devalued currency to diminish their debt.

“Before long, the debtor class became a powerful body extending through all ranks of society. . . all pressed vigorously for new issues of paper. . . apparently able to demonstrate to the people that in new issues of paper lay the only chance for national prosperity. . . [While] every issue of paper money made matters worse, a superstition gained ground among the people at large that, if only enough paper money were issued and were more cunningly handled, the poor would be made rich. Henceforth, all opposition was futile.”

While the prices of all products had increased enormously, wages for the laboring classes stagnated. Paper issue followed paper issue, until the money in circulation reached 3 billion francs in 1793… and there was still no end in sight. Unrest in the general population grew, and more and more working-class people called for capital punishment for price gauging and a 400-million-franc tax on bread for the rich.

On February 28, 1793, a mob of men and women in disguise began looting 200 stores in Paris, seizing everything they could get their hands on. Order could only be restored by buying off the mob with a 7-million-franc grant.

The currency nightmare ended on February 18, 1796, when under a new government the machinery, plates and paper for printing assignats were ceremonially broken and burned on the Place Vendome in Paris. Final calculations determined that the overall amount of paper money in existence was 40 billion francs. In comparison, a gold louis d’or had climbed from a value of 920 paper francs in August 1795 to 15,000 francs less than one year later. One franc in gold was worth 600 francs in paper.

And don’t make the mistake to think those French politicians were morons, warns Andrew Dickson White. “[The] men who had charge of French finance during the Reign of Terror and who made these experiments, which seem to us so monstrous. . . were universally recognized as among the most skillful and honest financiers in Europe. . . [which shows] how powerless are the most skillful masters of finance to stem the tide of fiat money calamity when once it is fairly under headway; and how useless are all enactments which they can devise against the underlying laws of nature.”

[Original_Intent]

halturnershow?


We gave it to Panama...


*CHINA ATTACK USA BY PANAMA?. Global Security, Nov 17, 1999
Panama has signed a 50-year lease for two ports at each end of the Canal with Hong Kong's Hutchison Whampoa Company, run by Li Ka-shing, who is closely associated with the Beijing regime. This gives China's Communist Party de facto control over the most strategic waterway in the West.

and


Red China: Gatekeeper of the Panama Canal


Charles R. Hazard/Insight
Jimmy Carter never would have been able to ram through his two treaties giving away our Panama Canal if the Senate in 1978 could have looked into the future and known that, when the U.S. Flag is lowered on December 31, 1999, Red China would become its gatekeeper. But that's what's scheduled to happen unless Congress takes immediate action to prevent it.
Don't expect the Clinton Administration to interfere with China's stunning beachhead in the Western Hemisphere. Clinton is hopelessly indebted to the Chinese and their allies in Indonesia for financing his presidential elections in 1992 and 1996.

China didn't need to send an invading army. Because of what is euphemistically called "free trade," China has plenty of cash to buy and bribe its way into our domain.

Communist China is the greatest national security threat to America today and in the foreseeable future. At a major meeting in Beijing in 1994, China designated the United States as its primary global rival. China is rapidly building a modern war machine with 18 long-range and 140 intermediate and medium range missiles. It's based on espionage, theft, trade deals that include technology transfers, and cash provided by a $60 billion-a-year favorable balance of trade.

Every month, China collects up to $6 billion in U.S. cash by selling its slave-labor products to Americans, but China buys only $1 billion worth of U.S. goods. The Chinese pocket the $5 billion a month difference and use it to build their military-industrial complex.

In order to cash in on the cash-rich Chinese, Panama manipulated the bidding process, holding repeated rounds of bids, for leases for the U.S.-built ports of Cristobal on the Atlantic end of the canal and Balboa on the Pacific end. The 50-year leases were awarded to a Chinese Hong Kong corporation named Hutchison Whampoa operating under the name Hutchison Port Holdings.

Hutchison Whampoa had come in only fourth in the bidding, after the Japanese firm Kawasaki/I.T.S., the U.S. firm Bechtel, and the Panamanian American company M.I.T. For exclusive control of the two ports, Hutchison Whampoa agreed to pay $22.5 million a year plus what one Panamanian called "bucket loads of money" under the table, and Panama's Law No. 5 was passed on January 16, 1997 to confirm the deal.

Law No. 5 blatantly violates the Panama Canal Neutrality Treaty, Article V, which stipulated that only Panama is allowed in defense sites. By giving Hutchison "priority" for its business operations, Law No. 5, Art. 2.11d, also violates the treaty's Article VI, which guaranteed "expedited" and "head of line" passage for U.S. warships.

Art. 2.10c of Law No. 5 gives Hutchison Whampoa the "right" to operate piloting services, tugs and work boats, which translates into control of all the Canal's pilots. Art. 2.10e grants the "right" to control the roads to strategic areas of the Canal, and Art. 2.12a grants priority to all piers, including private piers.

Art. 2.8 gives Hutchison Whampoa the right to "transfer contract rights" to any third party "registered" in Panama. Those rights could be transferred to China, or even Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Libya or North Korea.

The Hutchison leases even violate Panama's own constitution, Art. 274, which requires a plebiscite on Canal matters. None was held. Law No. 5, Art. 2.1, also grants "first option" to Hutchison Whampoa to take over the U.S. Rodman Naval Station, the Pacific deep-draft port facility capable of handling any warship. The Chinese will then have the power to exclude U.S. warships while admitting Communist warships.

The billionaire chairman of Hutchison Whampoa, Li Ka-shing, was a business and political buddy of the late Deng Xiaoping and now has the same close relationship with both Jiang Zemin and the Riady financial empire of Indonesia. No doubt that's why he controls most of China's commercial ports and seaborne trade as well as most of the dock space in Hong Kong.

Li was China's chief agent in facilitating China's smooth takeover of Hong Kong in 1997. Hutchison Whampoa partnered in several enterprises with China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO), which is directly controlled by the People's Liberation Army, and served as a middleman in China's deals with the U.S. firms Hughes and Loral.

The Carter-Torrijos Treaties, bad as they were, gave the United States the right to defend the Panama Canal militarily. The Chinese leases, however, will make it impossible to do this without directly confronting the Chinese Communist regime.

In 1996, when China was "testing" missiles to scare Taiwan before its election, the United States sent warships to the area and China responded by impudently threatening to "rain down fire" on Los Angeles from its China-based ICBMs. Would Communist China do the same if it bases its shorter-range missiles in Panama?

China will be able to ship its shorter-range missiles across the Pacific, unload them at Balboa, and conceal them in warehouses until the time is ripe. If Congress doesn't act immediately, we are heading for a Panama Missile Crisis like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962.


Technically you are correct. But for all intents and purposes, so am I.

[Indy4Chng]

This story is ridiculous.... until you start looking around... I wouldn't put it pass them. :(

[fj45lvr]

It is fucking clear that the people will stand for it because they are too fucking stupid and brainwashed.
.


[Redacted -- forum guidelines]

I think we could at least all smile if they had to live "underground" or in gated estates or island get-aways....

[hugolp]

[Redacted]

I think we could at least all smile if they had to live "underground" or in gated estates or island get-aways....

There is cameras everywhere, the FBI, the CIA, etc... have all kind of control over the telecomunications, have all kind of access to all kind of information, to police. [Redacted]

You may not realize it, but this is 1984. We are under absolute control.

Hugo

[hillbilly123069]

It goes down to the sheriff!

[american.swan]

I'll bump this so it's in my subscribed list. I like that article on france.

I find it odd that I have two Internet connected computers, yet I type this from a smartphone.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The Secret Service... sends their Sniper and Surveillance crews out weeks before any political visits(domestic/international)... Even that new Secretary of State, the one that has scrotums sewed to her chest, Hillary Clinton, plus, that latest boondoggle on the Taxpayer's Dime by Nancy Pelosi and her Socialist Party Pirates to Italy, etc have their "security" crews in advance.

Barret M107(LRSR) with Barett's supersonic ammo seems to be the choice of pros.

With politicians underground, I think the Carbon footprints on lack of these propaganda travels and party boondoggles would really help the planet. ;)


[Redacted]
I think we could at least all smile if they had to live "underground" or in gated estates or island get-aways....

[fj45lvr]

There is cameras everywhere, the FBI, the CIA, etc... have all kind of control over the telecomunications, have all kind of access to all kind of information, to police. [Redacted]

You may not realize it, but this is 1984. We are under absolute control.

Hugo

B.S.

You highly highly over-estimate the situation....there is too many places and too many people to "protect".....maybe a person or a very small group could be protected but not the vast majority.

Talk to Jesse Ventura about it.

How does anyone know about "absolute control" when it isn't even tested!!! I have to laugh at the thought of that when the U.S. cannot even control the desert and arid regions of Iraq and Afghanistan (just like the Soviets before them).

[Redacted]

The lunatic D.C. snipers proved something awhile back and even they may have not been caught without their muzzle flash being visible.

[LibertyEagle]

+ Posting of direct or inferred threats of violence against other people or property that is not your own is completely unacceptable by any user and subject to immediate banning.

+ No promotion of illegal activities.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

[raiha]

the one that has scrotums sewed to her chest,

:eek::eek::eek:Whose were they?

[LibertyEagle]

It looks like freerepublic has pulled the article, citing that it's under review.

On a personal note, I wouldn't doubt it. I don't trust Hillary further than I can spit and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the Chinese would just agree to keep buying the debt of a country whose dollar is quickly becoming worth less than the paper it is printed upon.

[hugolp]

B.S.

You highly highly over-estimate the situation....there is too many places and too many people to "protect".....maybe a person or a very small group could be protected but not the vast majority.

Talk to Jesse Ventura about it.

How does anyone know about "absolute control" when it isn't even tested!!! I have to laugh at the thought of that when the U.S. cannot even control the desert and arid regions of Iraq and Afghanistan (just like the Soviets before them).

[Redacted]

The lunatic D.C. snipers proved something awhile back and even they may have not been caught without their muzzle flash being visible.

You did not understand me. [Redacted]

I think the goverment would find you. They have satelites that can record whats happening in the ground, cameras everywhere, the whole comunication system with surveilance, etc...

Its imposible. This is 1984.

Hugo

PD: And about the desert, I dont think they care much. If they did they could.

[fj45lvr]

You did not understand me. [Redacted]

I think the goverment would find you. They have satelites that can record whats happening in the ground, cameras everywhere, the whole comunication system with surveilance, etc...

Its imposible. This is 1984.

Hugo

PD: And about the desert, I dont think they care much. If they did they could.

Ok I miss understood in part what you were inferring.... I agree that these people will get caught eventually, if the day comes that people do do these types of things I will take it that they are probably rather choosing to die as freemen than to live as slaves and maybe they would tell the rest of us to enjoy our chains and lick the hands that feed us....

[acptulsa]

[While] every issue of paper money made matters worse, a superstition gained ground among the people at large that, if only enough paper money were issued and were more cunningly handled, the poor would be made rich. Henceforth, all opposition was futile.”

Anyone remember a couple of years ago when the MSM was bragging about how many more people were millionaires? In fact, just about every homeowner was a millionaire--a few years ago.

Soon we will all be millionaires; if we aren't we won't be able to buy a loaf of bread. Just like Zimbabwe.

[Mini-Me]

I have to say that I think this thread takes the record for "highest percentage of posts containing comments redacting by a moderator." ;) I agree with hillbilly...most sheriffs in the US may not come anywhere near Sheriff Mack, but ultimately, I don't think they - or the vast majority of the US population - would be very happy about a significant amount of land stolen and given to China. Ultimately, the power of the government relies on the consent and cooperation of the people, and as docile as Americans have been over the past century, I think that may be starting to change. If eminent domain were ever used for this purpose on a large enough scale and people actually found out about it (and how wouldn't they, really?), I think that would seriously spark widespread civil disobedience and possibly secession.

[TonySutton]

All I have to say is "It will be one hell of a war." If you want to see something which pulls together Americans from small towns and rural areas. I would be in the line of pickups headed to reclaim US soil and I certainly would not be alone!

[power]

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

This is an unimaginable betrayal of every man, woman and child in the USA. An outrage worthy of violent overthrow.

Run on the banks planned for 04/17/2009

On April 17th - beginning at midnight EST - supporters of the Campaign for Liberty and of the campaign to END THE FED will join together to trigger a first in a series of “bank runs” in hopes of overwhelming the Federal Reserve’s ability to continue it’s propping up of our nation’s bankrupt financial system.

The goal of this project is to highlight the need to pass Congressman Ron Paul’s recently reintroduced House Resolution 833 - a bill to abolish the Federal Reserve.

We wish to emphasize the need for sound money - backed by gold and or silver.

All supporters should remove all cash except $17.76 from any bank and withdraw maximum allowable funds from any money market accounts on that day.

We seek an “electronic run on the banks” in addition to traditional “bank runs.” Over time, we hope to build these events in order to topple the effectiveness of the Federal reserve

http://libertyormayhem.com/

Mod Note: The Campaign for Liberty has NOT endorsed this initiative and their name should not be used in its promotion.

[Mini-Me]

Run on the banks planned for 04/17/2009

On April 17th - beginning at midnight EST - supporters of the Campaign for Liberty and of the campaign to END THE FED will join together to trigger a first in a series of “bank runs” in hopes of overwhelming the Federal Reserve’s ability to continue it’s propping up of our nation’s bankrupt financial system.

The goal of this project is to highlight the need to pass Congressman Ron Paul’s recently reintroduced House Resolution 833 - a bill to abolish the Federal Reserve.

We wish to emphasize the need for sound money - backed by gold and or silver.

All supporters should remove all cash except $17.76 from any bank and withdraw maximum allowable funds from any money market accounts on that day.

We seek an “electronic run on the banks” in addition to traditional “bank runs.” Over time, we hope to build these events in order to topple the effectiveness of the Federal reserve

http://libertyormayhem.com/

No. Such a malicious stunt would never bring anyone over to the cause of liberty...but I bet it would turn many potential supporters away. The banking system does not need our help to speed up its failure, anyway...and you don't want people hatefully thinking "This would never have happened if not for THOSE people." Well, I'm assuming you don't want them thinking that, but actually, judging by some of your other posts, maybe you actually do.

[tmosley]

If you want to pull out money because you think that the banking system is going to collapse, that's one thing, but organizing bank runs is illegal and immoral.

[FrankRep]

If you want to pull out money because you think that the banking system is going to collapse, that's one thing, but organizing bank runs is illegal and immoral.
Plus the media will have a field day with that.

[Mini-Me]

Plus the media will have a field day with that.

No kidding...what moron came up with that idea?

[Wendi]

All I have to say is "It will be one hell of a war." If you want to see something which pulls together Americans from small towns and rural areas. I would be in the line of pickups headed to reclaim US soil and I certainly would not be alone! It's a nice thought but, I don't have that much faith in most Americans to realize what the heck is happening until it is too late.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

No. Such a malicious stunt would never bring anyone over to the cause of liberty...but I bet it would turn many potential supporters away. The banking system does not need our help to speed up its failure, anyway...and you don't want people hatefully thinking "This would never have happened if not for THOSE people." Well, I'm assuming you don't want them thinking that, but actually, judging by some of your other posts, maybe you actually do.

I disagree. The good people who understand what is going on are already on board with us. The bad people who understand what is going on are the cause of our economic troubles. The 80% of the population that doesn't "get it" will get even more pissed at "the government" when their financial situation becomes much worse. They will never be able to rub their neurons together to figure out that a group like us could ever accomplish that. If they ever did, they would have to see the inherent problems with a system that could allow for something like that to happen. Thankfully, we have public school and college "economics" courses to make sure that no one will ever know enough to place the blame on us.

If the monetary system is forced down on our terms instead of theirs, there is a better chance that a sound money system will grow up out of the rubble. If "They" are allowed to destroy things according to their plan, the chances of honest money replacing the Federal Reserve Note are very slim.

We must be very careful because both our goal of honest money and their goal of a global ponzi scheme both require the collapse of our economic system. We do not want our efforts to help "Them".

[phill4paul]

If you want to pull out money because you think that the banking system is going to collapse, that's one thing, but organizing bank runs is illegal and immoral.

First you should consider why a bank run is made to be illegal. The fact that there is a law against it should tell you something about the banking systems insolvency.

As far as morality goes what is the moral choice between allowing an insolvent house of cards that prospers on the backs of workers or exposing it for what it is?

[Mini-Me]

It's a nice thought but, I don't have that much faith in most Americans to realize what the heck is happening until it is too late.

Thankfully, Beijing's center of power is very far away. With enough angry people at your side, it's pretty much never too late for Americans to drive their new Chinese landlords off of the stolen property.

[Mini-Me]

I disagree. The good people who understand what is going on are already on board with us. The bad people who understand what is going on are the cause of our economic troubles. The 80% of the population that doesn't "get it" will get even more pissed at "the government" when their financial situation becomes much worse. They will never be able to rub their neurons together to figure out that a group like us could ever accomplish that. If they ever did, they would have to see the inherent problems with a system that could allow for something like that to happen. Thankfully, we have public school and college "economics" courses to make sure that no one will ever know enough to place the blame on us.
I still stand by my original assessment...media scapegoating would make the bank-runners out to be the only culprits (because it's convenient), and I really do think that most people are stupid enough to completely miss the point about the system's inherent insolvency. All a talking head would have to do is say that such-and-such collapse would never have happened if not for the people who planned a bank run...and yes, in their outrage, people would actually believe them. Remember, these are the same people who mindlessly parroted the notion that Osama attacked the US and convinced a bunch of young guys to martyr themselves simply because they "hate our freedoms."

This is a REALLY bad idea, and if we ever did it - which I'm confident most won't - it would dramatically set us back in terms of public opinion, just when people were finally beginning to open their eyes.



If the monetary system is forced down on our terms instead of theirs, there is a better chance that a sound money system will grow up out of the rubble. If "They" are allowed to destroy things according to their plan, the chances of honest money replacing the Federal Reserve Note are very slim.

We must be very careful because both our goal of honest money and their goal of a global ponzi scheme both require the collapse of our economic system. We do not want our efforts to help "Them".

Bank collapses cause deflation. The dollar collapse will ultimately be caused by the inflation the government and fed are pumping into the economy, which will eventually spread around (and if banks don't lend, Bernanke will just hop in his helicopter). Of course, it's possible the dollar will survive this entire economic crisis and the incessant "stimulus" packages...and I actually imagine it will, considering the way foreign currencies are performing even poorer in comparison and foreign countries are ironically seeking temporary safe haven in the reserve currency. If it does survive the next couple years, the dollar will instead crash later on, probably due to a combination of inflation created to pay off the national debt (and entitlements like Social Security) and international exporters finally deciding they've had enough of the inflation and moving out of dollars.

In any case: If "their" plan is to wait for a dollar collapse to create a new currency, causing a bank run doesn't seem very likely to change their timetable. If "their" plan is to introduce a currency before a dollar collapse - i.e. at any conceivable time - then causing a bank run will be even less likely to screw up "their" timetable. Besides, what makes you think "they" don't hope we do something stupid like this? I asked before who the moron was that thought of it...because I'm pretty sure it wasn't anyone with any kind of community standing. ;) (What I really mean is: How do you know that a real Ron Paul supporter came up with the idea, as opposed to someone trying to destroy the reputation of Ron Paul supporters? A warning about the phrase "agent provocateur" comes to mind.)

In any case, the longer it takes before the dollar crashes and a new currency is introduced, the longer we have to affect public opinion...and that's a good thing. We're finally making some inroads now, and that's something I don't think anyone in the establishment ever expected in a million years. People are finally starting to listen to us...let's not squander the opportunity.

[s35wf]

[QUOTE=Mini-Me;1988151]

This is a REALLY bad idea, and if we ever did it - which I'm confident most won't - it would dramatically set us back in terms of public opinion, just when people were finally beginning to open their eyes.



Bank collapses cause deflation. The dollar collapse will ultimately be caused by the inflation the government and fed are pumping into the economy, which will eventually spread around (and if banks don't lend, Bernanke will just hop in his helicopter). Of course, it's possible the dollar will survive this entire economic crisis and the incessant "stimulus" packages...and I actually imagine it will, considering the way foreign currencies are performing even poorer in comparison and foreign countries are ironically seeking temporary safe haven in the reserve currency. If it does survive the next couple years, the dollar will instead crash later on, probably due to a combination of inflation created to pay off the national debt (and entitlements like Social Security) and international exporters finally deciding they've had enough of the inflation and moving out of dollars.

In any case: If "their" plan is to wait for a dollar collapse to create a new currency, causing a bank run doesn't seem very likely to change their timetable. If "their" plan is to introduce a currency before a dollar collapse - i.e. at any conceivable time - then causing a bank run will be even less likely to screw up "their" timetable. Besides, what makes you think "they" don't hope we do something stupid like this? I asked before who the moron was that thought of it...because I'm pretty sure it wasn't anyone with any kind of community standing. ;) (What I really mean is: How do you know that a real Ron Paul supporter came up with the idea, as opposed to someone trying to destroy the reputation of Ron Paul supporters? A warning about the phrase "agent provocateur" comes to mind.)

In any case, the longer it takes before the dollar crashes and a new currency is introduced, the longer we have to affect public opinion...and that's a good thing. We're finally making some inroads now, and that's something I don't think anyone in the establishment ever expected in a million years. People are finally starting to listen to us...let's not squander the opportunity.[/QUOTE

^^^thank u Mini Me for being a voice of reason. I really would like the shtf scenario to NOT happen. besides how could RP'ers have a bank run now? Didnt we all take our frn's out of the bank long ago????:D

[power]

"FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!"

One of the key clauses is the section 3A-143, sub-section 142 :

Section 3A-143, sub-section 142:

...All of said land granted to eminent domainee [China] in lieu of debt repayments must reside in selected locations in Southern Florida. Said land grants shall be certified to not have a shortage of water. The eminent doaminee shall be assured of opportunities for boating, sunshine, and various water sports...

[Deborah K]

I have to say that I think this thread takes the record for "highest percentage of posts containing comments redacting by a moderator." ;) I agree with hillbilly...most sheriffs in the US may not come anywhere near Sheriff Mack, but ultimately, I don't think they - or the vast majority of the US population - would be very happy about a significant amount of land stolen and given to China. Ultimately, the power of the government relies on the consent and cooperation of the people, and as docile as Americans have been over the past century, I think that may be starting to change. If eminent domain were ever used for this purpose on a large enough scale and people actually found out about it (and how wouldn't they, really?), I think that would seriously spark widespread civil disobedience and possibly secession.

Yes, but are you aware of the multi-national corporations that are buying up land in Texas in order to build the NAFTA superhighway? Ask the sovereign citizens of Texas how many of them were actually aware that it wasn't even Americans who were buying up their lands - through eminent domain. http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-us-borders-going-going-gone-december-b/ TPTB are clever, they use strawmen, they use diversion and distraction. And it works on the sleeping majority. That is what scares me about the OP. I hope it turns out to be untrue. If it is true, then we need to start mass emailing.

And someone else on this thread mentioned that the Supremes would never go for it. OH REALLY? Then please explain their ruling in 2005 which expands eminent domain to include public seizure of private land for use by private entities. At the very least, it is a perversion of the constitutional eminent domain.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062300783_pf.html

Edit: Here is the link to the inland ports that will be used for this Superhighway: http://www.nascocorridor.com/naipn/pages/participants.html

[LibertyEagle]

"FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!"

One of the key clauses is the section 3A-143, sub-section 142 :

Section 3A-143, sub-section 142:

...All of said land granted to eminent domainee [China] in lieu of debt repayments must reside in selected locations in Southern Florida. Said land grants shall be certified to not have a shortage of water. The eminent doaminee shall be assured of opportunities for boating, sunshine, and various water sports...

Please cite and link to your source.

Thanks.

[ItsTime]

I want to be like the cool kids

[Redacted]

[ImpeachKingGeorgeII]

Please cite and link to your source.

Thanks.

I think power meant his "clause" as sarcasm ;)

[Deborah K]

Here's a picture of what I'm referring to in my previous post.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vmg2h0.jpg

This is serious. If China is going to be allowed to buy up our land like these other multi-national corporations can, we are screwed people!!

[Deborah K]

Uh oh! Watch this: Chinese scoop up SoCal Foreclosures http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around_town/real_estate/Chinese_Scoop_Up_SoCal_Foreclosures_Los_Angeles.ht ml

[ArchPaul]

Uh oh! Watch this: Chinese scoop up SoCal Foreclosures http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around_town/real_estate/Chinese_Scoop_Up_SoCal_Foreclosures_Los_Angeles.ht ml

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around_town/real_estate/Chinese_Scoop_Up_SoCal_Foreclosures_Los_Angeles.ht ml

FTFY

[Deborah K]

oye!!!!


The Chinese are coming, to buy bargain US homes
Print article
Refer to a friend
© AP
2009-02-12 19:58:04 -


BEIJING (AP) - Beijing lawyer Ying Guohua is heading to the United States on a shopping trip, looking not for designer clothes or jewelry, but for a $1 million home in New York City or Los Angeles.
He expects to get a bargain. Ying is part of a growing number of Chinese who are joining tours
organized especially for investors who want to take advantage of slumping U.S. real estate prices amid a financial crisis.
«It's a great time to buy because of the financial crisis, and houses in large cities like New York and Los Angeles will definitely go up in a few years,» Ying said. The home is an investment, but he's also planning long-term: He hopes his 5-year-old son might use it if he goes to college in the United States.
While China's ultra-rich have been buying property in the U.S. for years, the buying tours are new, made attractive by still-rising Chinese income levels and American real estate prices that have been falling for two and a half years.
More than 100 Chinese buyers have joined such tours since late 2008, according to Chen Hang, the China-born vice president of real estate at Fortune Group. The Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, company shows foreclosed commercial property to Chinese buyers.
«The Chinese are going to seize the opportunity to take advantage of some great deals,» Chen said......Read on http://www.pr-inside.com/the-chinese-are-coming-to-buy-r1056560.htm

[Kraig]

The people who are directly harmed by eminent domain rarely stand for it anyways, it's the masses who aren't hurt and therefore don't care that allow it to happen.

[fj45lvr]

To all of the people that want to be apart of a coordinated withdrawl to be a "run on the bank" ....you should already have your money out now!!!

[muh_roads]

Here's a picture of what I'm referring to in my previous post.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vmg2h0.jpg

This is serious. If China is going to be allowed to buy up our land like these other multi-national corporations can, we are screwed people!!

I make many trips from Mpls to Duluth and I can confirm something major is being constructed. Massively wide overpasses. Traffic in the summers is especially bad at a certain junction where this work has begun. It's pretty slow paced though, that corner of the cities has been worked on for a few years.

It feels separate from MNDOT construction because MNDOT actually finishes a project and does it relatively fast considering.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Uh oh! Watch this: Chinese scoop up SoCal Foreclosures http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around_town/real_estate/Chinese_Scoop_Up_SoCal_Foreclosures_Los_Angeles.ht ml

Not just the Chinese... The rumors are from affiliated companies and subsidiaries of the Corporate Banks are buying up prime real estate around the nation, so when UNCLE SUGAR spends the People's money of TRILLIONS on Bank and Mortgage Bailouts... the Banks are primed to profit on the upswing when the prices are artificially inflated.(helps gov in taxes/fees/gains and Banks debt/bottom lines)

The Swindle Continues by Government & Banks.

[Zippyjuan]

In the 1980s it was the Japanese buying prime US real estate. You cannot take this land and export it or exercise sovereignty over it. It is still part of the US and subject to US laws. How is that going to hurt us? It shows that the US is still a great place to invest.

[Deborah K]

In the 1980s it was the Japanese buying prime US real estate. You cannot take this land and export it or exercise sovereignty over it. It is still part of the US and subject to US laws. How is that going to hurt us? It shows that the US is still a great place to invest.

Not when you consider that our corrupt gov't can be bought. Congress, with the aid of the Supremes, can and does enact laws that benefit multinational corporations. See my above posts.

[Zippyjuan]

.China has more influence from buying Treasuries than they could possibly gain from buying property. Property is being bought by individuals and businesses- not the government of China. They are buying property as investments- not to buy influence.

[Knighted]

In the 1980s it was the Japanese buying prime US real estate. You cannot take this land and export it or exercise sovereignty over it. It is still part of the US and subject to US laws. How is that going to hurt us? It shows that the US is still a great place to invest.

Exactly. I think people are simply buying into fear mongering here again. If you ask me, we could only be so lucky if the Chinese decided to spend some of those US dollars they've been hording for the last few years on property here. It would provide a boost to the housing market without the real repercussions that the government's meddling will cause.

[Deborah K]

Exactly. I think people are simply buying into fear mongering here again. If you ask me, we could only be so lucky if the Chinese decided to spend some of those US dollars they've been hording for the last few years on property here. It would provide a boost to the housing market without the real repercussions that the government's meddling will cause.

Globalize much? :rolleyes:

[Deborah K]

.China has more influence from buying Treasuries than they could possibly gain from buying property. Property is being bought by individuals and businesses- not the government of China. They are buying property as investments- not to buy influence.

Really? You sure about that? Where's your evidence?

[Zippyjuan]

Do you think that US individuals and companies should sell all the property they own in other countries?

[Zippyjuan]

Really? You sure about that? Where's your evidence?
Prove they are malicious.

[Deborah K]

Do you think that US individuals and companies should sell all the property they own in other countries?

No, and I fail to see the relevance in your question.

[Zippyjuan]

So it is OK for US citizens to buy property in other countries but not OK for other countries to buy property in the US? Or is it just certain countries you are worried about?

[Deborah K]

Prove they are malicious.

Very clever turning of the tables. But it won't work. You are the one claiming that we need not be alarmed at all the Chinese buying up of American homes, etc. I am linking my concerns to my previous argument regarding the NAFTA superhighway and the land-grabbing that is going on by other countries.

Here is an excerpt of an interesting article found here: http://mexidata.info/id1278.html


Monday, March 5, 2007
Chinese Ownership of Mexican Port Causing Worry
By Nancy Conroy



Chinese control of worldwide port facilities is an issue that should be reexamined in light of recent concerns about rising Chinese influence around the globe. The Chinese company Hutchison Whampoa, owned by Chinese billionaire Li Ka Shing, controls 35 major ports in the world, including the four most important ports in Mexico.

Hutchison is about to build a brand new port at Punta Colonet, a Baja California cove located just two hours south of the US border. In the event of a conflict with China, a Chinese built and controlled port so close to the US could potentially function as a staging area for hostile activities. Also, the US should keep an eye on Huchison’s remarkably friendly relationship with the Mexican government.

Hutchison Ports Holding, part of the Hutchison Whampoa group, runs 35 ports including the Bahamas, Buenos Aires, and two in the Panama Canal. And again, it is owned by Li Ka Shing, China’s most influential billionaire who is known as “The Superman of the Orient.” In 2003 Forbes magazine ranked him fifth among the world's ten “most powerful” billionaires, behind Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Silvio Berlusconi and Rupert Murdoch.

A 1998 declassified Army intelligence report stated "Li Ka-shing, the owner of Hutchison Whampoa [Limited] … is directly connected to Beijing and is willing to use his business influence to further the aims of the Chinese government."

During the public debate over the Panama Canal turnover in 1999, several members of Congress expressed concern about Hutchison’s control of ports on both sides of the Canal. The critics argued that Hutchison’s involvement essentially meant that control of the strategic waterway was being handed over to the communist Chinese government

[Deborah K]

So it is OK for US citizens to buy property in other countries but not OK for other countries to buy property in the US? Or is it just certain countries you are worried about?


Your question was - should we sell our property in other countries - and I said NO. Now you are twisting your argument around.

And yes, China worries me because we are so indebted to them. Does not the thought that our gov't may have granted eminant domain to them worry you in any way?

The article I posted about the wealthy Chinese buying up property was a side issue not directly related to the topic of the thread but information worth knowing all the same, imo.

[Zippyjuan]

The emenent domain thing is strictly an internet rumor. There is nothing real to support that claim.

I did not twist my question- it was deliberate. The issue was raised that China should not be buying property in the US. Foreigners buying US property. Yet if the US does the same thing it is not seen as bad.

A Chinese person buying a house in LA is not a threat to the US. Not even 1000 Chinese buying homes in LA. The issue is irrelevant to anything.

Our debt is indeed a threat to the future of our country- who owns it is not really that important.

The Chinese owned port you refer to is in Mexico- it is not up to us to decide what Mexico should allow. The firm financing it runs over 35 other ports all around the world. It still has not had any construction begun and the financing partnership collapsed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punta_Colonet

[Deborah K]

The emenent domain thing is strictly an internet rumor. There is nothing real to support that claim.

I did not twist my question- it was deliberate. The issue was raised that China should not be buying property in the US. Foreigners buying US property. Yet if the US does the same thing it is not seen as bad.



The US is in debt to CHINA!!! SEVERELY in debt. What is your response to the article I just posted? No concerns??



A Chinese person buying a house in LA is not a threat to the US. Not even 1000 Chinese buyign homes in LA

Well no shit. You are missing the point and seem to be trying to turn this into a race issue. Give me a break.

[Zippyjuan]

We owe nearly as much to Japan. As of December 2008, China held $727 billion of US debt in US treasuries. Japan had $626 billion. Out of a total of over $10 trillion in US debt, that is about seven percent of our total debt. Not saying it is a small amount but of the total debt it is not that huge.

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

[LibertyEagle]

Our debt is indeed a threat to the future of our country- who owns it is not really that important.

Surely, you must be kidding. Both are important. If our country's assets are largely owned by a foreign country, even if we were able to get out of debt, our country would no longer be our own.

[Zippyjuan]

Well no shit. You are missing the point and seem to be trying to turn this into a race issue. Give me a break.


Here you seem to claim that it could be a threat to the US somehow.

Really? You sure about that? Where's your evidence?

[fj45lvr]

And yes, China worries me because we are so indebted to them.

Just see what happens when they want their "money" back!!! it is going to get ugly.

[LibertyEagle]

So Zippy, is your position that you could care less if it got to a point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreigners?

[Zippyjuan]

If China decided to get rid of all their US Treasuries, what would they do with the money? They are in dollars. If they wanted to buy something else, they would have to sell those dollars which would raise the value of their currency and mean higher prices for their exported goods- which is what their economy is built on. Not just their exports to the US would become hugely more expensive either. They would hurt themselves as much as us if they dumped them. They may decide to buy none or fewer- that would not hurt their currency as much and with all the crazy bailout and stimulus spending we are going to be trying to sell a very large amount of new notes. That would mean we would have to pay higher interest rates on them to attract enough buyers. But I doubt they would dump what they already own.

[Zippyjuan]

So Zippy, is your position that you could care less if it got to a point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreigners?


What are they owning? How much of the US is foreign owned? Can you export a shopping mall? Can you export a housing development?

Yes, we need to do something about the debt but I do not have problems with foreigners owning property in the US.

[Deborah K]

Here you seem to claim that it could be a threat to the US somehow.

On the contrary, you seem to be saying none of this matters. As it pertains to other countries buying homes here, I don't really care - EXCEPT in the case of communist China. I don't consider them a friend to us. Taiwan is a different story, but I don't trust Red China.

Since you refuse to answer any of the questions I've posed to you, I'm not going to debate this with you anymore. You only seem interested in making arguments that have no relevance to the topic.

[LibertyEagle]

What are they owning? How much of the US is foreign owned? Can you export a shopping mall? Can you export a housing development?

What???? Of course they can't "export" a mall. Nor, do they have to. What we're talking about here is whether it is a good idea for the U.S. to be owned by foreigners who have not exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty.

So again, do you have no problem if it got to the point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreign entities?

[Zippyjuan]

So it is because they are Chinese- not because they are foreigners.
Which question did I not respond to?

[LibertyEagle]

So Zippy, is your position that you could care less if it got to a point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreigners?

You didn't answer this one.

[Zippyjuan]

What???? Of course they can't "export" a mall. Nor, do they have to. What we're talking about here is whether it is a good idea for the U.S. to be owned by foreigners who have not exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty.

So again, do you have no problem if it got to the point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreign entities?


What do you consider the problem with foreign property ownership? They cannot use the property in any ways that a domestic owner could not. They cannot take the poperty away.

[Zippyjuan]

You didn't answer this one.


I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

[Mini-Me]

.China has more influence from buying Treasuries than they could possibly gain from buying property. Property is being bought by individuals and businesses- not the government of China. They are buying property as investments- not to buy influence.

You're missing the point. The point is in the two words, "eminent domain." That's the part that has people pissed off. The government shouldn't have the authority of eminent domain in the first place. Of course, then it goes and abuses it by stealing land to give to corporations (instead of projects for the supposed "public good," which was the original justification for eminent domain). And NOW, the government is apparently planning on stealing land and giving it to entirely foreign investors as collateral/payment for debt, etc...debt that the government sank itself into without our approval in the first place. Sure, it's just a rumor at the moment, but for a second, pretend as though it was confirmed. In that case, would you seriously not see anything horribly wrong with this picture? Is there absolutely ANYTHING the state EVER does that actually bothers you in the slightest?

I mean, what would it take for you to make even a mild statement of disapproval? A world war for political reasons? Concentration camps? 100% tax rates on everything and zero private property ownership? The way you post, I somehow feel as though you'd sit around and act like none of those things would be any big deal or anything to worry about, either. I mean, seriously...if you found out that the President was sending shock troops to people's houses to steal their babies, and Congress was frying up ten babies alive every morning and eating them for brunch and bathing in their blood on C-SPAN...would you be upset? I'm starting to get the feeling you'd say something like, "Guys, this really isn't something to worry about. There are so many babies in America, the odds of your baby being stolen from you, fried up, and eaten are just too low to make a fuss over. Seriously, why worry about something that probably won't even personally affect you? It's not that big of a deal. Besides, this is probably as far as they'll ever go, so let's just take this one step at a time without worrying about the implications. After all, the slippery slope doesn't exist, and government has never tried to gradually expand its power in stages." :rolleyes:

[LibForestPaul]

If you want to pull out money because you think that the banking system is going to collapse, that's one thing, but organizing bank runs is illegal and immoral.

Why is it illegal?

Why would you consider it immoral?

Do you really own any allegaince to the financiers who have already stolen half of your money?

[constituent]

So Zippy, is your position that you could care less if it got to a point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreigners?

why not? there's plenty of worthless american pricks w/ too much ill-gotten money that own land right now.

i don't care who's fuckin' me over or where they're from, only that they are.

[constituent]

Surely, you must be kidding. Both are important. If our country's assets are largely owned by a foreign country, even if we were able to get out of debt, our country would no longer be our own.

If ownership is the measure of "our own," then it ain't mine anyway.

why should i care if the chinese run prices up on you?

the answer:

i shouldn't, and don't.

[constituent]

What???? Of course they can't "export" a mall. Nor, do they have to. What we're talking about here is whether it is a good idea for the U.S. to be owned by foreigners who have not exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty.

What about it being owned by americans who haven't "exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty" is any better?

[ForrestLayne]

I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

When a enough foreign people own land in the U.S., what is to stop another nation from "demanding " a military base on U.S. to protect their citizen's interests? Have not nations done this before in other countries? The U.S. has bases all over the world to "protect their interests."

[Bossobass]

I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

You should probably be more specific.

What about the interstate highway system with rights to charge tolls and no details as to maintenance or improvements?

What about mineral rights? We have 2 trillion tons of coal, billions of barrels of oil, 100 years of iron ore, gold, silver, timber, etc.

How about our national parks?

Fresh water?

Most of our debt has gone to military hardware, none of which debt is repaid. So, let's include the entire fleet of nuclear subs on the 'property' list, along with the hundreds of satellites we have circling the globe.

All of these things are property, all of which is mortgaged to the hilt if you include property and eminent domain as included in the demands for guarantees against 'the full faith and credit of the United States'.

As the title of the thread addresses, we're talking about the cabinet of the executive branch offering eminent domain in the US to a Communist country in exchange for continued loans to service our never-ending spending spree. If this is true (and I don't believe it is), it's unaccptable... period.

We invade countries, assassinate their leaders and install puppets and install permanent military bases all under the veil of "national security", but all of the above doesn't fall under that veil?

Arabs attempted to buy our ports. Astounding. I guess you'd have been OK with that?

Bullshit.

Our politicians are acting like third world puppets. Instead of shrugging it off as a non-event, you should be hopping pissed about it.

Bosso

[stilltrying]

I have read many a posts of zippyjuan who is all for paper money and does not see the sound money (ala gold standard) as good. I have debated with zippy on the corruption of the federal reserve and fiat money a time or two. It is of my opinion that zippy is no lover of liberty or sound economic principals. Obvious for his posts on this thread that he is not for sovereignty either, this person is a poser. With zippy it is fine "whomever has the money rules", soon enough those with the money that move here will rule and slave chinese communism labor isnt exactly my idea of a good time. Best of wishes to you zippy in your future chinese work camp job, I hope you dont get bad knees or a bad back the elites might find no use for you.

[stilltrying]

oh and also I think for any country that is concerned about their sovereignty that they should not allow a foreigner to buy their land. if the foreigners want they can lease or time share. it is of my opinion that ultimately the people that permanently declare or are natural born citizens in that country should own their land

[qh4dotcom]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=a_dsDz145J_A

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Sources+at+the+United+States+Embassy+i n+Beijing+China+have+just+CONFIRMED+to+me%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Just got this e-mail from my meetup and I am doubting if it is true (haven't heard Glenn Beck scream about this) but it was so shocking that I thought I would post it here



February 26, 2009
FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!

Beijing, China -- Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED to me that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's continued purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves!

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

This is an unimaginable betrayal of every man, woman and child in the USA. An outrage worthy of violent overthrow.

I am endeavoring to obtain images or copies of the actual document but in the interim, several different sources both in the US and in China have CONFIRMED this to me.

More details as they become available. . . . . spread the word ASAP.

-------------- UPDATE 1:40 pm EST

Eminent Domain is the power of government to TAKE private property for public use without the consent of the property owner. Under our Constitution, the government can only "take" when providing "just compensation" for what they've taken.

Who decides what constitutes "just compensation?" The government!

Homeowners who felt the government was not paying them enough for property in past "takings" have filed lawsuits. In absolutely every such case, the value placed upon the property by the government was upheld by the courts.

Our federal government has now granted to China, this power to "take"our homes and businesses in the event the US Gov't defaults on its debts. Let's play this out as a worst case scenario. . . . . .

The US Gov't goes belly-up and China comes in and says, "they owed us $2 Trillion in Treasury Notes and another $2 Trillion in actual cash money which is now worthless. We are taking the entire state of Hawaii and the entire state of California in lieu of this bad debt. "

With the stroke of a Chinese chop stick, Hawaii and California -- all the land and buildings in those states -- are now owned by China.

The "taking" would be a "valid public use" because it was "taken" in payment of the public debt!!!!

China could then turn around and declare the value of all that land to be worth. . . . . I dunno, ten cents on a dollar?

For your $200,000 house, you get a Chinese check for $20,000.

Needless to say, the property owners would go ballistic and demand "just compensation" for what was taken. Who gets to decide what is "just?" China! Don't think you got a fair price for what they took? No problem, sue China.

You'll lose.

People who live in those states and own their land outright, might be able to negotiate with China to "rent" back their own property, as long as the property owner continued to pay all his taxes; but the land and buildings would belong to China!

This is what our own Government has just done to us and it is the single most vile act of betrayal in the history of human existence.

-------------

In early February nine U.S. States began the process of re-asserting their Sovereignty pursuant to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the US Constitution; declaring null and void any actions by Congress that violated the Constitution.

At the time, I wrote about those state efforts (Here) and wondered why so many states were taking-up such an arcane issue in such a seemingly urgent fashion. I guess now, we know why.

The states were obviously privy to what the feds were planning to do with granting Eminent Domain to China. The states took action to make certain the feds couldn't give away cities or the states themselves!

This situation is going to get VERY ugly, VERY fast as one sovereign power (the feds) try to literally give away the land of other sovereign powers, (the states). This is the type of thing that starts Civil War.

Our present federal government makes the treachery and betrayal of Benedict Arnold look like child's play. Does anyone have any information on this?

****************

BLOOMBERG LINK: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=a_dsDz145J_A#


China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasuries, Yu Says (Update2)

By Belinda Cao and Judy Chen

Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won’t be eroded by “reckless policies,” said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.

The U.S. “should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way,” Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt.

Benchmark 10-year Treasury yields climbed above 3 percent this week on speculation the government will increase borrowing as President Barack Obama pushes his $838 billion stimulus package through Congress. Premier Wen Jiabao said last month his government’s strategy for investing would focus on safeguarding the value of China’s $1.95 trillion foreign reserves.

China may voice its concerns over U.S. government finances and the potential for a weaker dollar when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits China on Feb. 20, according to He Zhicheng, an economist at Agricultural Bank of China, the nation’s third-largest lender by assets. A People’s Bank of China official, who didn’t wish to be identified, declined to comment on the telephone.

Clinton Talks

“In talks with Clinton, China will ask for a guarantee that the U.S. will support the dollar’s exchange rate and make sure China’s dollar-denominated assets are safe,” said He in Beijing. “That would be one of the prerequisites for more purchases.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu said yesterday that talks with Clinton would cover bilateral relations, the financial crisis and international affairs, according to the Xinhua news agency.

The dollar fell 0.6 percent to 89.96 yen today on concern that the U.S. government’s bank-rescue plan will fail to revive lending. Treasuries declined as investors prepared to bid for a record $21 billion sale of 10-year notes today. The yield on the benchmark 10-year note rose three basis points to 2.83 percent.

Currency Reserves

“These comments are some sort of a threat but of course China can never get such a guarantee,” said Thomas Harr, a currency strategist at Standard Chartered Plc in Singapore. The U.S. may assure China that it will clean up the financial system and that it “won’t push for a weaker dollar but they can’t promise not to increase the fiscal deficit,” he said.

U.S. government bonds returned 14 percent last year including price gains and reinvested interest, the most since rallying 18.5 percent in 1995, according to indexes compiled by Merrill Lynch & Co. Concern that the flood of bonds would overwhelm demand caused Treasuries to lose 3.08 percent in January, the steepest drop in almost five years, Merrill data show.

China’s loss of more than $5 billion from investing $10.5 billion of its reserves in New York-based Blackstone Group LP, Morgan Stanley and TPG Inc. since mid-2007 may increase its demand for the relative safety of Treasuries.

“The government will be a net buyer of Treasuries in the short term because there’s no sign they have changed their strategy,” said Zhang Ming, secretary general of the international finance research center at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing. “But personally, I don’t think we should increase holdings because the medium- and long-term risks are quite high.”

Fed Buying

Bill Gross, co-chief investment officer of Pacific Investment Management Co., said on Feb. 5 the Federal Reserve will have to buy Treasuries to curb yields as debt sales increase. Fed officials said Jan. 28 they were “prepared” to buy longer-term Treasuries.

“The biggest concern for China to continue buying U.S. Treasuries is that if Obama’s stimulus doesn’t work out as expected, the Fed may have to print money to cover the deficit,” said Shen Jianguang, a Hong Kong-based economist at China International Capital Corp., partly owned by Morgan Stanley. “That will cause a dollar slump.”

China’s foreign-exchange reserves grew about $40 billion in the fourth quarter, the least since mid-2004, as an end to yuan appreciation since July prompted investors to pull money out.

The world’s third-biggest economy grew 6.8 percent in the fourth quarter, the slowest pace in seven years. Policy makers announced a 4 trillion yuan ($585 billion) economic stimulus plan in November to spur domestic demand.

Linking Disputes

Yu said China has no plans to channel its reserves toward stimulating its own economy because its trade surplus is sufficient to fund any import needs. China’s trade surplus was $39 billion in January.

China “should diversify its reserves away from U.S. Treasuries if the value of China’s foreign-exchange reserves is in danger of being inflated away by the U.S. government’s pump- priming,” he said.

China may try to link trade and currency policy disputes to its future investment in Treasuries, said Lu Zhengwei, an economist in Shanghai at Industrial Bank Co., a Chinese lender partly owned by a unit of HSBC Holdings Plc.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner accused China on Jan. 22 of “manipulating” the yuan to give an unfair advantage to its exporters. The currency has dropped 0.16 percent this year to 6.8342 per dollar, following a 21 percent gain since a peg against the dollar was abandoned in July 2005.

“China can also use this opportunity to get a promise from the U.S. not to make inappropriate requests on bilateral trade and the Chinese yuan,” Lu said. “We can’t afford more yuan appreciation as the economy is facing a serious slowdown.”

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

This was already posted but the OP in the other thread had a different source. I would have to think that Bloomberg would be much more reliable (unless I am thinking of something else). If this is true than I cannot fathom the American people taking it anymore.

[Rael]

Sounds like a bogus story. The bloomberg article does not mention anything about eminent domain

[Anti Federalist]

This was already posted but the OP in the other thread had a different source. I would have to think that Bloomberg would be much more reliable (unless I am thinking of something else). If this is true than I cannot fathom the American people taking it anymore.

Welcome to "endgame".

I can't see this playing out any other way outside of these options:

1 - Insolvency and complete receivership of all or most US assets.

2 - China refuses to finance any more debt, resulting in nothing left for the fedgov to do but print, baby, print. Hyperinflation and insolvency follows.

3 - Renouncement of the debt. Hyperinflation, insolvency and war follows.

[Anti Federalist]

Sounds like a bogus story. The bloomberg article does not mention anything about eminent domain

The first part of the email is from Hal Turner's site, I believe.

Don't need to say any more about that.:rolleyes:

But the second part, about China demanding "collateral" for the outstanding debt is a valid story.

It would be safe to assume that would mean some ownership share of hard assets.

[satchelmcqueen]

now this i will bring out the guns over for real. if this is true. get ready for all of america to start rioting. this will not be allowed to happen on my property or in my country if i have anything to do with it. ive kept myself out of debt, and i owe nothing to anyone. this is my land. dont mess with it.

[qh4dotcom]

Welcome to "endgame".

I can't see this playing out any other way outside of these options:

1 - Insolvency and complete receivership of all or most US assets.

2 - China refuse to finance any more debt, resulting in noting left for the fedgov to do but print, baby, print. Hyperinflation and insolvency follows.

3 - Renouncement of the debt. Hyperinflation, insolvency and war follows.

I wonder what the Obama sheeple would do if they heard their Messiah say he had no other option :)

[Anti Federalist]

I wonder what the Obama sheeple would do if they heard their Messiah say he had no other option :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/3007772515_c383eb793d.jpg

[hillbilly123069]

February 27, 5:11 PM
by Bill Dupray,
DC Republican Examiner
They own us.
(Photo credit Future Atlas)The time for partisan bickering just ended. This is as serious as a heart attack. Obama is going to spend so much money, which he intends to get from China via the sale of government backed bonds, that the Chinese apparently don't think he'll be able to make good on them.

So President Obama gave the Chinese eminent domain rights to American land and businesses as collateral - i.e. we don't pay, they now own America.

From Patriot Room.

Because it looks like our wonderful new administration is granting the Chinese eminent domain as collateral for US debts. Yea you read that right. That means when we can no longer pay for all this massive spending the Chinese can call in the loans and take our land.

The thought that American citizens and businesses could lose their land as a means of payment is downright scary. I highly doubt ANY American citizen would have voted for Obama if they knew this was coming down the pike.
Live Leak has more details.

Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED to me that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's continu More..ed purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves!

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2304-DC-Republican-Examiner~y2009m2d27-Impeachment-Time--Obama-Grants-Eminent-Domain-Rights-to-China-to-Secure-Debt

http://www.patriotroom.com/

[hillbilly123069]

:mad:Looks confirmed now.

[Sandra]

Another thread is up about this for 3 days now. Admin says this story is unconfirmed.

[FrankRep]

...

[FrankRep]

:mad:Looks confirmed now.

Its sources lead back to the (untrustworthy, racist) Hal Turner Show. Still Unconfirmed.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

If this was confirmable, where would one look?

[Sandra]

If this was confirmable, where would one look?

How did the OP confirm it?

[NathanTurner]

If Bush wasn't impeached for war crimes and crimes against humanity for the millions of civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, two pointless wars, and his foreign concentration camps used for the purposes of torture and indefinite imprisonment, what are the chances that Obama will be impeached based on an unconfirmed story that is virulently spreading solely in the tin-foil hat blogs?

Furthermore, why aren't most of the people so concerned about Obama and his every action barely phased by the heinous crimes of the previous administration? I don't like Obama or his big government policies, but common sense would dictate that his administration is no excuse for amnesia of the past eight years, or demanding that those responsible for it are held accountable. Since Obama has been elected, I've listened to mindless Neocon Republicans drone on about how evil Obama is, while overlooking the greater cause of our current situation and not giving Bush, Cheney, Rove, and the rest of them a second thought. At least I've been consistent in my condemnations of both administrations on principle alone.

That reminds me of a rather short conversation I had with a Republican woman the other day. She was telling me how she disapproved of Obama sending troops into Afghanistan, while not a few days before she was defending the war. My response was simply, "You Neocons started the pointless wars, you defended the pointless wars, but now you bitch and moan when a Democrat funds the pointless wars? If you don't want troops in Afghanistan, then I suppose you shouldn't support the Afghanistan war." The ability for the human mind to reconcile glaring contradictions without a second thought never ceases to amaze me, and I think it's this short term memory that allows these politicians to continue fleecing the people without finding themselves at the end of a rope.

[FrankRep]

For the new people reading this thread.

This story is not confirmed.

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[Cowlesy]

Sounds like total conjecture to me.

We already have Chinese embassies scattered all over the United States. They're called WalMarts.

I'm feeling like people are finding these real stories, and then figuring out how to bolt on a conspiracy solely for the purposes of whipping up angry sentiments.

Sounds like propaganda to me.

Then again, I will keep an open mind. If it is true, I will eat crow.

[hillbilly123069]

For the new people reading this thread.

This story is not confirmed.
This story originated at Bloomberg a few weeks ago so can it be made up hype?Also,considering the integrity that those peterheads in DC have shown over the last few decades,I'm comfortable with the assumption they're not selling us out for personal advancement!There are some who say that this a partial dissinformation to destract patriots from other things going on but I have to wonder just what did our government offer up as collateral for more loans to use on wasteful spending.I just cannot see China throwing good money after bad on our country the ways things have been spiralling out of control with our economy.

[Sandra]

This story originated at Bloomberg a few weeks ago so can it be made up hype?Also,considering the integrity that those peterheads in DC have shown over the last few decades,I'm comfortable with the assumption they're not selling us out for personal advancement!:rolleyes:

If you read a story on a blog. Ask them where they got their info. INVESTIGATE.

I think we're all getting tired of posters coming here with a juicy story not giving a damn if it's true or not.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

For the hell of it I googled "Obama Grants Eminent Domain Rights to China to Secure Debt" earlier today and there were about 70k results. As of right now there are about 2390. As I go through and click many of the links on the result page now a lot are being pulled.

I do not know if the story is confirmed or not, just making an observation.

[Sandra]

For the hell of it I googled "Obama Grants Eminent Domain Rights to China to Secure Debt" earlier today and there were about 70k results. As of right now there are about 2390. As I go through and click many of the links on the result page now a lot are being pulled.

I do not know if the story is confirmed or not, just making an observation.

Most of those Google results are blogs that C&P from other blogs word for word.

[hillbilly123069]

http://www.rense.com/general85/give.htm

[Cowlesy]

This is BS --- if it were true, every single right-wing idealogue would be jumping all over it.

They took a Bloomberg story from a few weeks ago and warped the facts to get us all hyped up and pissed off.

[Cowlesy]

http://www.rense.com/general85/give.htm

Come on man. I opened that article and it is a pure conjecture of connecting "dots" with the end result being a Star of David.

And we wonder why they call us all moonbats?

[power]

"FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!"

One of the key clauses is the section 3A-143, sub-section 142 :

Section 3A-143, sub-section 142:

...All of said land granted to eminent domainee [China] in lieu of debt repayments must reside in selected locations in Southern Florida. Said land grants shall be certified to not have a shortage of water. The eminent doaminee shall be assured of opportunities for boating, sunshine, and various water sports...

[power]

Sounds like propaganda to me.

Then again, I will keep an open mind. If it is true, I will eat crow.

"FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!"

One of the key clauses is the section 3A-143, sub-section 142 :

Section 3A-143, sub-section 142:

...All of said land granted to eminent domainee [China] in lieu of debt repayments must reside in selected locations in Southern Florida. Said land grants shall be certified to not have a shortage of water. The eminent doaminee shall be assured of opportunities for boating, sunshine, and various water sports...

[Minarchy4Sale]

If this is for real, Ill spend my 'just compensation' on ammo.

[power]

USA real estates were worth $20 Trillion in 2007. Since the rise and fall from 2007 to Feburary 2009, now USA real estates must be worth $30 Trillion.

USA debt with China stands at 660 Billion and the Barack Obama's government is begging China to purchase more debts and bonds.

USA debts/deficit has reached $65 Trillion. So USA debts with China could reach $3 Trillion and more.

This means 10% of USA real estates (cities & land) will be mortgaged to China as per EMINENT DOMAIN GRANTED TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS.

[power]

USA real estates were worth $20 Trillion in 2007. Since the rise and fall from 2007 to Feburary 2009, now USA real estates must be worth $30 Trillion.

USA debt with China stands at $660 Billion and the Barack Obama's government is begging China to purchase more debts and bonds.

USA debts/deficit has reached $65 Trillion. So USA debts with China could reach $3 Trillion and more.

This means 10% of USA real estates (cities & land) will be mortgaged to China as per EMINENT DOMAIN GRANTED TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS.

[power]

USA real estates were worth $20 Trillion in 2007. Since the rise and fall from 2007 to Feburary 2009, now USA real estates must be worth $30 Trillion.

USA debt with China stands at $660 Billion and the Barack Obama's government is begging China to purchase more debts and bonds.

USA debts/deficit has reached $65 Trillion. So USA debts with China could reach $3 Trillion and more.

This means 10% of USA real estates (cities & land) will be mortgaged to China as per EMINENT DOMAIN GRANTED TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS.

[Cowlesy]

This story is false.

[Cowlesy]

This story is false.

[Sandra]

But Cowlesy, if they post it 3 times it makes it true!

[Mattsa]

This was posted 26th February 2009

I don't know whether it is authentic

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f8_1235673139

does anyone have any further information on this story. It' pretty shocking if it's true.