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bobbyw24
02-25-2009, 05:49 AM
Supreme Court upholds conviction in guns case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/24/AR2009022401377.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

By MARK SHERMAN
The Associated Press
Tuesday, February 24, 2009; 4:17 PM


WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday affirmed the use of a federal law barring people convicted of domestic violence crimes from owning guns, the first firearms case at the high court since last year's decision in support of gun rights.

The court, in a 7-2 decision, said state laws against battery need not specifically mention domestic violence to fall under the domestic violence gun ban that was enacted in 1996.

It is enough, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote in her majority opinion, that the victim of such a crime be involved in a domestic relationship with the attacker.

"Firearms and domestic strife are a potentially deadly combination nationwide," Ginsburg said.

Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia dissented in the case of Randy Edwards Hayes, a West Virginia man whose earlier misdemeanor conviction for beating his wife gave rise to a federal felony indictment for gun possession.

The federal government, gun control groups and women's rights advocates worried that a ruling for Hayes would have weakened the federal law because about half the states, including West Virginia, do not have specific misdemeanor domestic violence laws.

"If the case had gone the other way, there are thousands of people who currently are prohibited from buying guns who would have been allowed to buy guns. Women in abusive situations would have been more at risk. Police officers responding to domestic violence calls would have been more at risk," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

New Jersey Sen. Frank Lautenberg, author of the 1996 law, said: "Since it was enacted, my domestic violence gun ban has kept more than 150,000 guns out of the hands of domestic abusers. We know a gun in the home makes it much more likely that domestic abuse results in death and today's decision means we can continue keeping guns out of dangerous hands and saving innocent lives."

The case turned on whether the conviction for domestic violence that leads to the gun ban can be under a generic law against the use of force. Or, must the state law be aimed specifically at spousal abuse or domestic relationships.

The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., ruled in favor of Hayes because the West Virginia state law on battery under which he was convicted did not contain specific wording about a domestic relationship between the offender and the victim.

Nine other appeals courts rejected that interpretation.

There was no dispute, however, that the victim in the 1994 crime was his then-wife.

Ten years later, police summoned to Hayes' home in response to a domestic violence 911 call found a Winchester rifle belonging to Hayes. They later discovered that he had possessed at least four other rifles after the 1994 case.

He was indicted on federal charges of possessing firearms after the conviction of misdemeanor domestic violence, a reference to the 1994 case.

Excluding domestic abusers who are convicted under generic laws "would frustrate Congress' manifest purpose," Ginsburg said. Lautenberg said in 1996 that people who abuse their spouses and children often are not charged with felonies or are allowed to plead to lesser crimes, sometimes because relatives are unwilling to press more serious charges.

In dissent, Roberts said the federal law is ambiguous and that the case should have been resolved in Hayes' favor. "Ten years in jail is too much to hinge on the will-o'-the-wisp of statutory meaning pursued by the majority," Roberts said.

People on both sides of the gun debate were watching the Hayes case to see if it implicated the court's ruling last year that individuals have a constitutional right to guns.

But there was no mention of District of Columbia v. Heller in either the majority opinion or the dissent.

The case is U.S. v. Hayes, 07-608.

phill4paul
02-25-2009, 05:59 AM
The SC is the reason we are afforded no inalienable rights by our government. Every interpretation they make is for the "greater societies safety".
No one. No one. Will have the right to bear arms by the time they are finished as more and more laws make criminals of each and every one of us.

TastyWheat
02-25-2009, 08:58 AM
The SC is the reason we are afforded no inalienable rights by our government. Every interpretation they make is for the "greater societies safety".
No one. No one. Will have the right to bear arms by the time they are finished as more and more laws make criminals of each and every one of us.

Though I may disagree on the reasons for barring ownership of a gun, I think it's reasonable for a violent offender to be denied ownership of a gun (though I would prefer the restriction be temporary).

slothman
02-25-2009, 12:51 PM
... I think it's reasonable for a violent offender to be denied ownership of a gun ....
I think it is reasonable to deny tham axes too.
Or tasers.
Of course there is the usual part that they will use them anyways and just get a longer sentence if used.
People will still get attacked, with a gun or some other weapon.

NYgs23
02-25-2009, 12:57 PM
Though I may disagree on the reasons for barring ownership of a gun, I think it's reasonable for a violent offender to be denied ownership of a gun (though I would prefer the restriction be temporary).

The government's a violent offender; it should be denied ownership of a gun.

Anti Federalist
02-25-2009, 01:00 PM
The government's a violent offender; it should be denied ownership of a gun.

+1776

The most violent, deadly psychopath in our midst has no shortage of guns.

Danke
02-25-2009, 01:02 PM
The government's a violent offender; it should be denied ownership of a gun.



"Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency." <IMHO>

TonySutton
02-25-2009, 01:15 PM
Anyone else notice his initial offense was 2 years before the gun ban was enacted.

Anti Federalist
02-25-2009, 01:44 PM
Anyone else notice his initial offense was 2 years before the gun ban was enacted.

No ex post facto laws, eh?

They don't pay attention to any other part of the Constitution, why would they pay attention to that part?

Nice find.

Lucille
02-25-2009, 03:19 PM
This whole government needs to go, including SCOTUS.

phill4paul
02-25-2009, 03:38 PM
Though I may disagree on the reasons for barring ownership of a gun, I think it's reasonable for a violent offender to be denied ownership of a gun (though I would prefer the restriction be temporary).

I mention this because someone that I have a business acquaintance with just got arrested for domestic abuse.

It was New Years Eve. He and his bat-shit crazy GF had been drinking. She got pissy and started slapping him. When he wouldn't play her game and hit her back she called the cops and said that he hit her.
He spent New Years Eve in jail and was not allowed to go back to his house until the next morning.

Had another friend that was also dating a psycho. He's a therapist and figured he could help her. LOL. She locked herself in his room. When she wouldn't let him in the room he threatened to kick his own door in. Guess what she did? Yep, sheriffs were over pronto. This one ended a little better.

The trouble,as always, is not with the intent of the law. It is with abuse of the law.

ihsv
02-25-2009, 04:00 PM
The slow trickle of "not alloweds" is creeping along rather nicely. Domestic violence cases, ex-solidiers who seek psychiatric help, etc., etc.

I think it's disgusting that you have to ask permission of the government in the first place to own a firearm (if you buy it from a shop). People would throw a temper tantrum if they had to get permission from Uncle Sugar to exercise their first amendment rights.

Warrior_of_Freedom
02-25-2009, 05:45 PM
The government's a violent offender; it should be denied ownership of a gun.

Your statement is Epic Win.<IMHO> :cool:

daviddee
02-25-2009, 06:26 PM
...

TastyWheat
02-26-2009, 02:50 AM
I don't think domestic violence is really a good enough reason to ban someone from owning a gun. If you can't be trusted with a gun you shouldn't be released [from jail].

Isaac Bickerstaff
02-26-2009, 03:25 AM
I don't think domestic violence is really a good enough reason to ban someone from owning a gun. If you can't be trusted with a gun you shouldn't be released [from jail].

I understand the intent of your post (I think), but who decides whether or not you can be trusted?