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Barney
02-24-2009, 10:53 AM
I see the often dismissive attitude here toward liberals/socialists as missed opportunities.

Liberals have much in common with Libertarian ideals. They are predominately antiwar and pro civil liberties. And their position on entitlements are rooted in good intentions although misguided.

If anything liberals in general are more receptive to contrarian ideas than are evangelicals or neo-conservatives. I don't recall Kucinich or Nader ever speaking ill of the Federal Reserve until Dr Paul broadcasted the message in the debates. Even Cynthia McKinney signed on to balanced budgets and auditing the Fed. But I don't see many instances of prominent pro-war Conservatives who changed their minds on the morality and the justification of the war (not just that it was botched).

As Dr Paul acknowledged, there is much overlap between his supporters and that of Obama's. As a recovering socialist, I would suggest patience and persuasion with your liberal/socialist friends or collegues as potential recruits to the RP movement. I think this is important for 2012 when the failure of the Obama policies become apparent.

Epic
02-24-2009, 11:17 AM
Good post. The trick is to show that economic liberties are just as important as social liberties.

raystone
02-24-2009, 11:45 AM
Just had this discussion with someone. Liberals and libertarians are on the same page with personal liberties, and illegal foreign invasions. But we departs ways in exploding fashion over caring for the less fortunate in our society.

Due to nothing more than a diet of public school indoctrination and mainstream media, a typical liberal socialist believes more government is better to care for those less fortunate. We, of course, know that private charities are better for the giver and receiver. Noone has found the message to give to liberal socialists to chip through decades of big government propaganda.

I think the answer lies somewhere in economic education. Unfortunately, I haven't see a cost effective delivery for it yet. When I do, I'll be duplicating it.

Bruno
02-24-2009, 11:53 AM
Agreed - good posts and points


Just had this discussion with someone. Liberals and libertarians are on the same page with personal liberties, and illegal foreign invasions. But we departs ways in exploding fashion over caring for the less fortunate in our society.

Due to nothing more than a diet of public school indoctrination and mainstream media, a typical liberal socialist believes more government is better to care for those less fortunate. We, of course, know that private charities are better for the giver and receiver. Noone has found the message to give to liberal socialists to chip through decades of big government propaganda.

I think the answer lies somewhere in economic education. Unfortunately, I haven't see a cost effective delivery for it yet. When I do, I'll be duplicating it.

I agree we depart ways, but really on depart in means of how the less fortunate should be cared for. Liberals want to take more money from the middle class and the rich, but often (generalizing) don't see that they should instead be promoting acts of charity, not forced social programs at the point of a gun.

Just look at Dodd, Obama, Biden, etc. They all gave around 1% or less of their income to charities.

Xenophage
02-24-2009, 12:28 PM
I see the often dismissive attitude here toward liberals/socialists as missed opportunities.

Liberals have much in common with Libertarian ideals. They are predominately antiwar and pro civil liberties. And their position on entitlements are rooted in good intentions although misguided.

If anything liberals in general are more receptive to contrarian ideas than are evangelicals or neo-conservatives. I don't recall Kucinich or Nader ever speaking ill of the Federal Reserve until Dr Paul broadcasted the message in the debates. Even Cynthia McKinney signed on to balanced budgets and auditing the Fed. But I don't see many instances of prominent pro-war Conservatives who changed their minds on the morality and the justification of the war (not just that it was botched).

As Dr Paul acknowledged, there is much overlap between his supporters and that of Obama's. As a recovering socialist, I would suggest patience and persuasion with your liberal/socialist friends or collegues as potential recruits to the RP movement. I think this is important for 2012 when the failure of the Obama policies become apparent.

Perhaps you have some tips? I tend to run into a brick-wall with Democrats. We'll start out by agreeing on the war, then maybe we'll agree on drug legalization, and next thing you know he wants to kill me because I'm a racist since I don't support affirmative action and I'm a cold-hearted monster because I don't support welfare.

RonPaulCult
02-24-2009, 01:50 PM
I've repeated these words a few times on this site but I can answer to this.

2 years ago I was as liberal as could be. I mean Dennis Kucinich and I lined up.

I learned about Ron Paul and decided to support him because war is my biggest issue and of the true anti-war candidates he was the one with the best chance of winning.

I joined my Ron Paul meetup and openly called myself a liberal. Even one night when I met Ron Paul himself I told him I was a liberal. He gave me a bit of a weird/scared look but then put his hand on my shoulder and said "freedom brings us together"

As I heard more Ron Paul speeches and read libertarian literature I came to understand that the TRUE conservative way is far better than the liberal/socialist/left ways.

The only reason I hadn't felt this way always was because nobody had told me about these things. To me conservatives were the neocons and I sure as hell knew what they believe in to be wrong. I always assumed libertarian were the extreme side of believing in what neocons believe. That they believe the same things but they are just hardcore about it.

Nobody showed me that the best way to take care of the lower classes is by freeing them from inflation and to have a sound money system etc. etc.

It has been a complete political transformation for me. And so many of you on here have been a great help.

So yes liberals are perhaps our best hope of building the movement. When Obama lets them down they will need somewhere to turn.

Keep fighting the good fight everybody!

Epic
02-24-2009, 01:56 PM
I love reading posts like that.

Bruno
02-24-2009, 01:57 PM
I've repeated these words a few times on this site but I can answer to this.

2 years ago I was as liberal as could be. I mean Dennis Kucinich and I lined up.

I learned about Ron Paul and decided to support him because war is my biggest issue and of the true anti-war candidates he was the one with the best chance of winning.

I joined my Ron Paul meetup and openly called myself a liberal. Even one night when I met Ron Paul himself I told him I was a liberal. He gave me a bit of a weird/scared look but then put his hand on my shoulder and said "freedom brings us together"

As I heard more Ron Paul speeches and read libertarian literature I came to understand that the TRUE conservative way is far better than the liberal/socialist/left ways.

The only reason I hadn't felt this way always was because nobody had told me about these things. To me conservatives were the neocons and I sure as hell knew what they believe in to be wrong. I always assumed libertarian were the extreme side of believing in what neocons believe. That they believe the same things but they are just hardcore about it.

Nobody showed me that the best way to take care of the lower classes is by freeing them from inflation and to have a sound money system etc. etc.

It has been a complete political transformation for me. And so many of you on here have been a great help.

So yes liberals are perhaps our best hope of building the movement. When Obama lets them down they will need somewhere to turn.

Keep fighting the good fight everybody!

That truly brought a tear to my eye as I pictured him saying it. :)

slothman
02-24-2009, 02:23 PM
I agree with most of what you have to say.
I am a liberal with a significant libertarian opinions.
Many of the libverals I see probably aren't as much libertarian as me.
Some of the ideals could change their mind though.

P.S. Is there a neat abbr. that can represent libertarian without meaning liberal?

georgiaboy
02-24-2009, 02:47 PM
This thread should be a sticky. I'm a red-meat conservative Republican, and I strongly agree with the point of this thread.

It is so vitally important to this movement that we attract all stripes of mainstream folks our way. We need to steal from neo-cons and neo-libs to build the liberty coalition.

It's truly an American spectrum-crossing coalition. As RP says, "Freedom is Popular". It's true for everyone.

The Campaign for Liberty needs to work just as much with Democrats as well as Republicans, or we're lost.

This is game-changing.

georgiaboy
02-24-2009, 02:52 PM
...

Nobody showed me that the best way to take care of the lower classes is by freeing them from inflation and to have a sound money system etc. etc.


One good way to do this is to join up with your liberal friends in local charitable activism, or minimally support charities yourself both monetarily and with your time & talents, and look for ways to (humbly) introduce this fact to your liberal friends.

It should be easier then to create an environment to discuss/show how charity can respond better than Washington DC to the plight of the needy.

powerofreason
02-24-2009, 03:08 PM
Yes! Thank you for making this topic. There are far too many right wingers on this forum. Social conservatism is soooooo dead.

Brian4Liberty
02-24-2009, 03:46 PM
Give a man a fish, he can eat that day. Teach him how to fish, and he can eat every day with no more help.

To make a man a slave, give him welfare...it saps him of motivation, drive, self-esteem and pride.