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Lord Xar
09-14-2007, 02:44 PM
SENT TO ME FROM NUMBERSUSA.COM

We can't guarantee a single Senator who will vote against amnesty next week!

"Here is my first report on calling U.S. Senators regarding my opposition to extraneous immigration provisions in the FY 2008 DoD Authorization Bill, H.R. 1585. Debate on this bill starts on Monday at 3:00 PM. It has been very easy, perhaps too easy to reach Senator's offices. Out of the 20 offices that I have called in my first hour of calling, there has only been one busy signal."----------Gene A. Nelson, Ph.D.

FRIENDS, WE MUST MULTIPLY OUR EFFORTS,

Our Capitol Hill Team cannot name me a single U.S. Senator that it can guarantee will vote against the DREAM Act Amnesty next week.

We feel certain that in the final analysis we will get a minimum of 20 or so, but we at this time can't give you any names because we don't know who they will be.

You all have already sent 43,212 faxes (http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet?authkey=e539f37bb08806e91c8e1dc378853 486) into Congress since I alerted you in the middle of the night. That's great. But it means most of you have not responded yet.

I don't want to sound like a nag, but I have to tell you that there have not been anywhere near enough phone calls into Senate offices today. We're losing.

I can tell you with great assurance that unless you pick up a phone and call, the amnesty WILL pass this next week.

Only a massive response from all of you like you provided in June will turn back this attempt.

Why are we losing Senators who voted NO on the Comprehensive Amnesty in June?

Because many of them think the DREAM Act Amnesty will only involve a few tens of thousands of sympathetic teenager illegal aliens (it actually opens up amnesty for millions of all ages).

Because some who oppose the DREAM Amnesty believe it definitely will pass and are working on a way to tighten the amnesty in exchange for their vote

Our NumbersUSA legislative department outlines the threats in sections below.

Here is an excellent article about the DREAM Act (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg2069.cfm) by law professor Kris Kobach.

**********************************************

THE QUICK PHONE MESSAGE YOU CAN GIVE TO SENATE OFFICES THIS AFTERNOON -- AND FIRST THING MONDAY


1. Call the Senate switchboard at:
202-224-3121

2. Ask for your Senator. (You can find the names of your Senators and all their contact info at: numbersusa.com/myMembers)

3. Use the Phone Action Note on your Action Buffet corkboard for up to date talking points for each of your two Senators and other pertinent information.

4. If you want to go with the simplest phone call, then follow the rest of these points:

5. Tell the person who answers that you are calling to ask the Senator to vote NO next week on three measures that are being considered for the Defense Authorization bill.

a. Vote NO on Amendment 2237 that would attach the Dream Act Amnesty.

b. Vote NO on any measure to increase H-1B visas and permanent greencards for foreign workers to take jobs from skilled American workers and students.

c. Vote NO on any attempt to increase H-2B visas for seasonal foreign workers to take jobs from America's most vulnerable workers. in this email:
1. A short script on what to say on phone to your Senators

2. Talking points against DREAM Act Amnesty.

3. Talking points against taking jobs away from American skilled workers and students

4. Talking points to stop expansion of visas for unskilled seasonal workers
actions in brief:
1. Phone your two Senators. Use talking points in this email -- or click on the phone note that will be placed on your corkboard Friday morning.

2. Send free faxes to your Senators to stop the amnesty and the increase in foreign workers.
donate now:
This faxing system is 100% financed by the voluntary generosity of the 445,000-plus Americans who use it.

Please click here to make any sized donation to keep this grassroots phenomenon strong and effective.
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THE OPPOSITION PLANS TO BEAT US ON PHONE AND FAX THIS TIME


All summer since the media gave you credit for moving the Senate with your faxes and phone calls to kill the Comprehensive Amnesty bill, we have seen open borders groups telling their members that they would beat NumbersUSA at our own game this fall.

Some open borders groups said that they would be studying our NumbersUSA grassroots mobilization system carefully and would imitate it to generate more faxes and more phone calls FOR amnesty than we can AGAINST amnesty.

There have been reports of open-border billionaires so angry at the NumbersUSA success in June that they have pledged to provide enough money to the open-borders groups for them to generate more faxes and phone calls than our side.

Just one problem with all the bravura of the open-borders crowd: There are a whole lot more of us than them.

Thanks to the generosity of about 10% of you, we have the funds to pay for an avalanche of faxes over the next several days.

Please take the actions and forward this email to as many Americans as you know.

The opposition hopes that these three measures will seem so much smaller than the Comprehensive Amnesty that the American people will largely sit this one out.


Talking Points to Stop the DREAM ACT AMNESTY

The DREAM Act (Amendment 2237 to the Defense Authorization bill) is a nightmare. It is a massive amnesty that extends to the millions of illegal aliens who entered the United States before the age of 16.


There is no upper age limit. Any illegal alien can walk into a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services office and declare that he is eligible. For example, a 45 year old can claim that he illegally entered the United States 30 years ago at the age of 15. There is no requirement that the alien prove that he entered the United States at the claimed time by providing particular documents. The DREAM Act's Section 4(a) merely requires him to "demonstrate" that he is eligible-which in practice could mean simply making a sworn statement to that effect. Thus, it is an invitation for just about every illegal alien to fraudulently claim the amnesty.


The alien then has six years to adjust his status from a conditional green card holder to a non-conditional one. To do so, he need only complete two years of study at an institution of higher education, including any vocational school. If the alien has already completed two years of study, he can convert to non-conditional status immediately (and use his green card as a platform to sponsor parents and other family members). As an alternative to two years of study, he can enlist in the U.S. military for two years. This provision allows Senator Durbin to claim that the DREAM Act is somehow germane to the defense authorization bill.


An illegal alien who applies for the DREAM Act amnesty gets to count his years under "conditional" green card status toward the five years needed for citizenship. On top of that, the illegal alien could claim "retroactive benefits" and start the clock running the day that the DREAM Act is enacted. In combination, these two provisions put illegal aliens on a high-speed track to U.S. citizenship-moving from illegal alien to U.S. citizen in as little as five years. Lawfully present aliens, meanwhile, must follow a slower path to citizenship.


It would be absurdly easy for just about any illegal alien-even one who does not qualify for the amnesty-to evade the law. According to Section 4(f) of the DREAM Act, once an alien files an application-any application, no matter how ridiculous-the federal government is prohibited from deporting him. Moreover, with few exceptions, federal officers are prohibited from either using information from the application to deport the alien or sharing that information with another federal agency, under threat of up to $10,000 fine. Thus, an alien's admission that he has violated federal immigration law cannot be used against him-even if he never had any chance of qualifying for the DREAM Act amnesty in the first place.


The DREAM Act also allows illegal aliens to receive in-state tuition rates at public universities, discriminating against U.S. citizens from out of state and law-abiding foreign students.


The DREAM Act also makes the illegal aliens eligible for federal student loans and federal work-study programs-another benefit that law-abiding foreign students cannot receive-all at taxpayer expense.


A consistent theme emerges: Illegal aliens are treated much more favorably than aliens who fol¬low the law. There is no penalty for illegal behavior.


Talking Points to Prevent Attaching Provisions of the SKIL Act

Increase the annual cap for "temporary" nonimmigrant visas from 65,000 to 115,000. But that's just the first year (after that, if the cap is met in any year, it can be further increased by 20 percent for the next year with a ceiling of 180,000 per year)


Establishes more exemptions from the cap, thus rendering the cap virtually meaningless (as it is, approximately two-thirds of all current H-1Bs have been exempted)


Instead of capturing "unused" EB visas (as claimed by proponents) from previous years, adds new EB visas by an amount coinciding with the number not issued in those years


As with the H-1B provisions described above, establishes additional exemptions to the annual EB visa cap that do nothing but make it easier for U.S. employers to import cheap labor rather than hiring American workers.


"Expedites" and "streamlines" the processing of millions of new applications (and requisite background checks) for "temporary" workers and for LPR status, which, to an agency (U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services [USCIS>) that has shown itself to be unable to adequately implement current immigration laws, is both untenable and reckless


Authorizes employers to propose a prevailing wage of their own choosing if the Labor Department is too swamped with labor certification applications to respond within 20 calendar days, thus allowing existing wage stagnation in high-tech fields to become further entrenched


Allows greater abuse of the L-1 “intracompany transferee/specialized knowledge” visa, which, unlike the H-1B, may be issued without numerical limitation and without the employer being required to pay the alien employee the prevailing wage, or meet other labor condition requirements, and they are valid for longer periods of time


Puts L-1 nonimmigrants in line for lawful permanent resident (LPR) status, which, for all intents and purposes, would make their employment permanent and would take yet more jobs away from U.S. workers


Expands eligibility for F student visas – shown to be an effective method for terrorist elements to lawfully enter, and then remain in, the United States – to aliens wanting to study in high-tech fields and, in concert with other high-tech-related provisions, affords them the opportunity to be "fast-tracked" toward LPR status and permanent placement in the job market as more cheap, foreign labor


Talking Points to Stop Expansion of Visas for Seasonal Workers

H-2B visas are for temporary or seasonal non-agricultural, unskilled workers. Employers who want to hire H-2B workers must obtain a labor certification from the Department of Labor (DoL) stating that qualified American workers are not available to fill the jobs. Unfortunately, the “certification” process is less certification and more rubber stamp, since DoL is not permitted even to verify the truthfulness of the information on petitions. If the employer filled in all the blanks, DoL approves the petition.


H-2B visas were created so that employers could fill temporary labor shortages until U.S. workers can be found. Employers of H-2Bs are required to look for American workers first, but the requirements for advertising job openings are minimal. At the least, employers should be required to post job openings on an internet-based system like DoL’s “America’s Job Bank.”


Since H-2B visas are renewable for up to three years and family members are allowed to accompany the workers, these visas often end up providing semi-permanent residency. After three years, the foreign worker and his family must go home for six months before returning for up to three more years.


The United States economy is not facing a shortage of unskilled workers; in fact, it has an oversupply


14 million Americans are unable to find full-time jobs in the current economy (Bureau of Labor Statistics—BLS);


The unemployment rate among the 12 million American adults who do not have a high school diploma is almost 9 percent (BLS);


An astonishing 40 percent of working-age African-American men are unemployed (BLS);


The percentage of 16- to 19-year-olds holding jobs in the United States is the lowest it has been since the government began tracking statistics in 1948 (Prof. Andrew Sum, Center for Labor Market Studies, Northeastern University).


At least 40 percent of the illegal-alien population came to the United States on a temporary visa, like the H-2B, and then overstayed after the visa expired. Congress should not even consider increasing the numbers of temporary visas until DHS has fully implemented an entry-exit system, based on biometric identifiers, to ensure that visa holders leave the United States when their visa expires. Otherwise, Congress will simply be facilitating illegal immigration.

Friends, the business lobbies have bought off most of the Democratic leadership that is in control of the Senate in order to radically increase the importation of foreign workers and keep American wages from rising.

Because Republican party leaders have traditionally been helpful to business lobbyists, we face incredible odds in trying to stop this triple threat next week.

We stopped an amnesty for all illegal aliens in June. But these actions next week not only will provide amnesty to several million of them but is designed to soften up the politics to pass other amnesties later this fall. We must overwhelm the Senate with our opposition starting this afternoon.

derdy
09-14-2007, 03:20 PM
What the effe? Not this again! How many times do we have to do this song and dance? These people need to be incarcerated.

Lord Xar
09-14-2007, 04:57 PM
yes.. and they are useing OUR MONEY TO FUND ILLEGAL Higher Education, yet we have Americans that would LOVE this extra-money.. alot of poor americans are getting shafted by special interests.....

PLEASE, FAX AND CALL --> Get the info from the links.

SeanEdwards
09-15-2007, 12:43 AM
People who have grown up in the US, attended US schools for years, graduated from a US high school, etc... should be considered US citizens. The problem is people need to be judged as individuals. An 18 year old illegally brought into the US at age 3 is not equivalent to some MS-13 gang member who just arrived last week. Both sides in the immigration debate seem to want to treat these people the same way, either let them both in, or throw them both out. They need to be treated as individual cases, not lumped together.

PennCustom4RP
09-15-2007, 02:03 AM
People who have grown up in the US, attended US schools for years, graduated from a US high school, etc... should be considered US citizens. The problem is people need to be judged as individuals. An 18 year old illegally brought into the US at age 3 is not equivalent to some MS-13 gang member who just arrived last week. Both sides in the immigration debate seem to want to treat these people the same way, either let them both in, or throw them both out. They need to be treated as individual cases, not lumped together.

Just because you have grown up here and graduated high school doesn't change anything. Be here for 15 minutes or 15 years, if you came illegally, you are here illegally, only difference is that you didn't get caught until now.
One could equate and say they've been drinking and driving for 15 years, but never got caught, but got caught 15 minutes ago, it was illegal all those other times, as it is this time.
These should be treated the same, because they are the same, lumped together, and still illegal.
Time caught up with them, and time to go.

Omnis
09-15-2007, 03:39 AM
Borrowing from George Carlin: this Dream act can only occur if people are asleep.

G-khan
09-15-2007, 12:19 PM
Borrowing from George Carlin: this Dream act can only occur if people are asleep.

If you care about this issue I would suggest you take the time to make your voice heard...

:mad:

Lord Xar
09-15-2007, 12:23 PM
If you care about this issue I would suggest you take the time to make you voice heard...

:mad:

YES.

1. sign up at numbersusa.com
2. Go to the fax board and send out your faxes...
3. Call a couple of senators and leave voicemessages.. of course be cordial and polite and explain the situation.

REMEMBER, this DREAM ACT is PORKED onto a defense bill. This what the democrates LOVE TO DO -- hide taxpayer funded lameness on HUGE bills hopeing that the bigger bill's important will over-ride the side porks.. thus get thru.

WE MUST STOP THIS.

Please, fax fax fax -- numbersusa.com

and call -- the number is at the top.

G-khan
09-15-2007, 01:41 PM
YES.

1. sign up at numbersusa.com
2. Go to the fax board and send out your faxes...
3. Call a couple of senators and leave voicemessages.. of course be cordial and polite and explain the situation.

REMEMBER, this DREAM ACT is PORKED onto a defense bill. This what the democrates LOVE TO DO -- hide taxpayer funded lameness on HUGE bills hopeing that the bigger bill's important will over-ride the side porks.. thus get thru.

WE MUST STOP THIS.

Please, fax fax fax -- numbersusa.com

and call -- the number is at the top.

Done.... thx

ChooseLiberty
09-16-2007, 01:45 PM
Damn those bastards just never stop.

And you know any of those illegals that go to college major in useless crap like ethnic studies and then try to get an affirmative or diversity quota job with the gov't where they will be further subsidized by the law abiding taxpayer.

SeanEdwards
09-16-2007, 04:09 PM
Just because you have grown up here and graduated high school doesn't change anything. Be here for 15 minutes or 15 years, if you came illegally, you are here illegally, only difference is that you didn't get caught until now.


It doesn't serve the cause of justice to deport people who have known no other home than the United States.



One could equate and say they've been drinking and driving for 15 years, but never got caught, but got caught 15 minutes ago, it was illegal all those other times, as it is this time.


In law, there is a thing called the statute of limitations. There is also supposed to be something called justice. Your assertion that an 18 year old kid who has lived in the U.S. for the past 17 years should be deported as an illegal is asinine, sadistic, and unjust.



These should be treated the same, because they are the same, lumped together, and still illegal.
Time caught up with them, and time to go.

No, you are totally wrong on this. The guy who swam the border last week, is not in the same immigrant status as the baby that was carried over the border and lived their entire life in the United States. Your position is just as foolish, in the opposite direction, as the total amnesty advocates. You both want to collectivize all these millions of human beings and treat them the same way. You want to deport them all, and they want to let them all in. Both concepts are unjust. They need to be treated as individuals.

PennCustom4RP
09-16-2007, 05:36 PM
It doesn't serve the cause of justice to deport people who have known no other home than the United States.
According to you...and the others in the Amnesty camp.



In law, there is a thing called the statute of limitations. There is also supposed to be something called justice. Your assertion that an 18 year old kid who has lived in the U.S. for the past 17 years should be deported as an illegal is asinine, sadistic, and unjust.

Show me the SOL on illegal immigration and we can talk some more...Justice is enforcing the Law and the penalties prescribed by that Law.


No, you are totally wrong on this. The guy who swam the border last week, is not in the same immigrant status as the baby that was carried over the border and lived their entire life in the United States. Your position is just as foolish, in the opposite direction, as the total amnesty advocates. You both want to collectivize all these millions of human beings and treat them the same way. You want to deport them all, and they want to let them all in. Both concepts are unjust. They need to be treated as individuals.

(Small violins playing)
Laws are not made per individual, they are made to apply to the society as a whole...Equity under the Law...what applies to me applies to you, and applies to the illegal... since you and I are citizens of the US we have not broken this law...treat each case individually, and nothing will get done...ever.

SeanEdwards
09-16-2007, 07:06 PM
(Small violins playing)
Laws are not made per individual, they are made to apply to the society as a whole...Equity under the Law...what applies to me applies to you, and applies to the illegal... since you and I are citizens of the US we have not broken this law...treat each case individually, and nothing will get done...ever.

I wonder if you would still express that opinion when somebody labels you an enemy combatant and orders judicial punishment upon you while denying your right to be judged as an individual.

In this country, we don't punish children for the crimes of their parents.

I'm really having a hard time believing anyone would arbitrarily want to deport someone who had lived 17 of their 18 years in the U.S. Have you given serious thought to that position at all? In my opinion, it's monstrous. Can you not imagine yourself being in a position like that? Have you dehumanized these illegals that much that you can callously sling such a barbaric and unjust solution around seriously?

A kid who has grown up in this country, attended our schools, graduated from high school, is as much an American as you or I. And your talk of throwing them out without even a hearing before a court is evil, stupid, and it ain't never gonna happen, thank god. Not through a legal process anyway. Maybe if you get some like-minded freaks to start lynching your brown-skinned neighbors, you might reach your goal, but not otherwise.

ChooseLiberty
09-16-2007, 07:25 PM
You've got a very emotional argument.

Your first "point" is a non-sequitar.

Your second "point" - correct - If they're a citizen, just send the parents back and put the child in an English only orphanage or foster home where they are released at age 18. That's what they do to citizens that have criminally jailed parents. :D

Done. And done. Have an illegally day.



I wonder if you would still express that opinion when somebody labels you an enemy combatant and orders judicial punishment upon you while denying your right to be judged as an individual.

In this country, we don't punish children for the crimes of their parents.

PennCustom4RP
09-16-2007, 08:47 PM
In this country, we don't punish children for the crimes of their parents.

Ok Sean, Punish the parents too, and as this 'child' is now 18, no longer a child, but still here illegally all the same. keep the family together, elsewhere...Get in line, get legal status...I have no issue with those here legally.


I'm really having a hard time believing anyone would arbitrarily want to deport someone who had lived 17 of their 18 years in the U.S. Have you given serious thought to that position at all? In my opinion, it's monstrous. Can you not imagine yourself being in a position like that? Have you dehumanized these illegals that much that you can callously sling such a barbaric and unjust solution around seriously?

How is this arbitrary? There is a reason, they're here illegally. If the same situation were true of me, I was in another country illegally, regardless of my time there, I'd be put on a plane and sent back to the US...within the week


A kid who has grown up in this country, attended our schools, graduated from high school, is as much an American as you or I.
Just because the schools are prohibited from asking about legal status, doesn't make them legal, or American.


And your talk of throwing them out without even a hearing before a court is evil, stupid, and it ain't never gonna happen, thank god.
Who ever said there wouldn't be a legal proceeding, surely there was some determination that they were illegally here in the 1st place.


Not through a legal process anyway. Maybe if you get some like-minded freaks to start lynching your brown-skinned neighbors, you might reach your goal, but not otherwise.
Yet you contradict yourself by stating there was a legal proceeding, and go on to speak of lynchings, I never said harm would come to any of them, or did you somehow equate deportation to concentration camp? How is being returned to ones country of origin, for an ongoing illegal condition, not within the rights of the country whose borders and laws have been violated?

Sean, we can debate this all day, but it will not change their status.
I speak for me, but gather from the others who post on this topic who are anti amnesty, its not that we are anti immigration, its that we are anti illegal immigration...
Return home, get in line, become legal...being here illegally is a big slap in the face to those who do follow procedure in becoming legal residents of the US.

SeanEdwards
09-16-2007, 10:32 PM
Ok Sean, Punish the parents too, and as this 'child' is now 18, no longer a child, but still here illegally all the same. keep the family together, elsewhere...Get in line, get legal status...I have no issue with those here legally.


You know I don't really give a damn how you rationalize this crap. Talk of deporting someone who was brought into this country at 1 year of age after they've lived in the US their entire life is just insanely out of bounds. You're going to sit there and blithely talk of uprooting these people from their homes and sending them to live in a land foreign to them, because they're "illegals". Hell no, they ain't illegals. Not after living in the US their whole life they aren't, regardless of what their parents did 15+ years in the past.

Now some infant, who has been in the country 1 week, yeah he should be deported. But not the people you are talking about. Imagine it was you. Brought here as a baby, and then after living in the country for 18 years some asshole tells you to gtfo and move someplace you've never been to before. It's just ridiculous. Their 'status' is that they are human beings and our nation will treat them as such.



How is this arbitrary? There is a reason, they're here illegally. If the same situation were true of me, I was in another country illegally, regardless of my time there, I'd be put on a plane and sent back to the US...within the week


I don't really give a fuck how other nations treat immigrants. Once a child has lived in the US for the majority of their childhood, it's way too late to declare them 'not welcome'. The opportunity to throw them out is long gone at that point.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EXILING AMERICANS. Paperwork doesn't mean shit. Our nation had the opportutinty to keep these people out or deport them, but once they've put down roots and joined the community it's too freaking late to uproot them.

Under your plan, somebody could up and dispute your legal status. Maybe your parents overstayed a visa or something. Now, a lifetime later are you going to meekly get on a bus to some foreign country? I would hope not.



Just because the schools are prohibited from asking about legal status, doesn't make them legal, or American.


No, but those who have lived the majority of their life here, particularily those who entered as children, are as American as anyone.



Yet you contradict yourself by stating there was a legal proceeding, and go on to speak of lynchings, I never said harm would come to any of them, or did you somehow equate deportation to concentration camp? How is being returned to ones country of origin, for an ongoing illegal condition, not within the rights of the country whose borders and laws have been violated?


I think about one of my friends, whose family emigrated to the US from Egypt when he was three years old. I don't really what his immigration status was, but for the point of this discussion its irrelevant. I knew him in grade school, and the guy was as American as they come. He went on to become a medical doctor. Your bullshit idea is to come along and tell a guy like that he has to 'go back' to Egypt ( a place he probably has no memories of at all) because his parents broke the rules. I'm saying once that Egyptian (or whatever) kid has put down roots, and is a happy little football playing all-american future doctor, it's too late to deport him. And frankly your talk of doing shit like that pisses me off. Because you're clearly not thinking about the reality of these people, and how horrible it would be to thrown out of your home and told to live in a foreign land.



Sean, we can debate this all day, but it will not change their status.


Yeah, their status is that they are human beings.



I speak for me, but gather from the others who post on this topic who are anti amnesty, its not that we are anti immigration, its that we are anti illegal immigration...
Return home, get in line, become legal...being here illegally is a big slap in the face to those who do follow procedure in becoming legal residents of the US.

Exiling some kid who has known no other home than the US is a big slap in the face to justice and human rights.

PennCustom4RP
09-17-2007, 12:25 AM
Blah Blah Blah Sean...the remedy was already given...Get in line and get legal... yet you choose to ignore it...and make excuses for everything, bringing up all these 'what ifs'...it is your rationale that is skewed...I didn't make these rules up, the Govt did...some in the Govt want these rules enforced, some want to avoid enforcing these rules...and taking your pissy tone isn't going to change that either...I'm sorry if you're not a Rule of Law kinda guy.
You would think that these people would want to do this, Getting their status in order, considering the ramifications of them not doing so. Must be some reason why they don't.

Still no Statue of Limitations citation from you regarding this issue...because apparently there is no limitation as to how long this issue is enforcible....funny how you are...

Man from La Mancha
09-17-2007, 12:31 AM
SeanEdwards this is easy to resolve we should do what the mexican or government from where the illegal is from does to their illegals.

.

Man from La Mancha
09-17-2007, 12:40 AM
The best organization I have found to support is NumbersUSA http://www.numbersusa.com/index I use their fax system and donate to them when they need it. They have lobbyists and do a great job. Please sign up with them they make it so easy to defeat these bills

.

Lord Xar
09-17-2007, 12:42 AM
The best organization I have found to support is NumbersUSA http://www.numbersusa.com/index I use their fax system and donate to them when they need it. They have lobbyists and do a great job. Please sign up with them they make it so easy to defeat these bills

.

Numbersusa and alipac.us are BOTH awesome.... and need to be supported COMPLETELY....

SeanEdwards
09-17-2007, 12:45 AM
Blah Blah Blah Sean...


Right. Why don't you tell us some more about how you want to see 18 year olds, who've lived 17 years of their life in the US deported. I really want to hear you expound in detail on this enlightened policy.

SeanEdwards
09-17-2007, 12:51 AM
SeanEdwards this is easy to resolve we should do what the mexican or government from where the illegal is from does to their illegals.

.

Fuck the mexican government. No way in hell do I want my nation copying that third world dump.

I'm all for preventing illegal immigation. String up some razor wire and machine gun posts and smoke everybody coming across, I don't give a fuck.

But this braindead notion of deporting Americans because their parents broke the rules 18 years previously is ridiculous. I'm taking a Spanish class at a California community college with a girl who is a Mexican national. She doesn't speak Spanish. Her parents brought her here when she was a baby. I don't know what her immigration status is, but I do know that deporting a person like her, WHO HAS LIVED THEIR WHOLE LIFE IN THE U.S. would be manifestly unjust.

If you can't recognize that fact, well then to hell with you.

Man from La Mancha
09-17-2007, 12:58 AM
Fuck the mexican government. No way in hell do I want my nation copying that third world dump.

I'm all for preventing illegal immigation. String up some razor wire and machine gun posts and smoke everybody coming across, I don't give a fuck.

But this braindead notion of deporting Americans because their parents broke the rules 18 years previously is ridiculous. I'm taking a Spanish class at a California community college with a girl who is a Mexican national. She doesn't speak Spanish. Her parents brought her here when she was a baby. I don't know what her immigration status is, but I do know that deporting a person like her, WHO HAS LIVED THEIR WHOLE LIFE IN THE U.S. would be manifestly unjust.

If you can't recognize that fact, well then to hell with you.
Sounds like love, so what is the magic number of years that someone illegally lived here should stay or go back?

.

SeanEdwards
09-17-2007, 01:08 AM
Sounds like love, so what is the magic number of years that someone illegally lived here should stay or go back?

.

I would say someone who entered the US before the age of 8, should be considered a naturalized citizen after living in the US for 10 years.

That's just an estimate though. Ultimately I think every one of them should be evaluated by a court.

I don't think this should apply to people who were adults when they entered the US at all.

Lord Xar
09-17-2007, 01:48 AM
I would say someone who entered the US before the age of 8, should be considered a naturalized citizen after living in the US for 10 years.

That's just an estimate though. Ultimately I think every one of them should be evaluated by a court.

I don't think this should apply to people who were adults when they entered the US at all.

Okay, now what about that childs parents? Do they now get a free pass? What about the extended family that now resides IN the household of the parents, what hardships can now be shown.. do they also get a pass?

And now you want to crowd the courts with all sorts issues, as if the courts are not crowded enough. The laws HAVE NOT BEEN OBEYED, that is the issue.

There is always a 'hurting phase' to such things. You have to get over that hump.

I mean, right now they are giving illegals IN STATE TUITION OVER CITIZENS from other states.. can you friggin believe that?

This is a complete mess. I went to a pet store today, and a Ross... I couldn't believe it -- there were hardly any english speakers. There is NO assimiliation. No want for assimiliation and we promote this because business wants the slave labour. Its all bad. I am sorry. But as my mother would say "this isn't the hotel motel".

buffalokid777
09-17-2007, 02:28 AM
I would say someone who entered the US before the age of 8, should be considered a naturalized citizen after living in the US for 10 years.

That's just an estimate though. Ultimately I think every one of them should be evaluated by a court.

I don't think this should apply to people who were adults when they entered the US at all.

Just a question?

By some chance are you employed or have ever been employed by the council of la raza?

You seem very much like some of their online workers based on the council of la raza talking points....

It seems you recite them word for word.

Lord Xar
09-17-2007, 03:56 AM
Just a question?

By some chance are you employed or have ever been employed by the council of la raza?

You seem very much like some of their online workers based on the council of la raza talking points....

It seems you recite them word for word.

hahahahahah.... awesome.

PLEASE PEOPLE ---- CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AMERICAN CITIZEN STUDENTS ARE GETTING SHAFTED HERE -- THIS IS AMNESTY.

Please call and call and call..

Please see this thread for action: http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=82677

Givemelibertyor.....
09-17-2007, 05:32 AM
Faxes sent.

Voice mail boxes for both Senator's were full. I guess that's a good sign.

Lord Xar
09-17-2007, 10:35 AM
OPPOSE THE DREAM ACT!!! We have Americans that need this help, and they are giving it to Illegals! ---> and shoving us with the bill.

***************
GO HERE FOR ACTION ALERT

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=476183#476183


OPPOSE THE DREAM ACT -- SAY NO TO IT. THIS IS MORE OF A NIGHTMARE --

Givemelibertyor.....
09-18-2007, 06:54 AM
bump

Givemelibertyor.....
09-18-2007, 07:14 AM
From Numbers USA:


SENATORS MOST IN NEED OF PHONE CALLS

The senators noted below voted NO on the Comprehensive Amnesty in June, but have not yet pledged to vote NO on the DREAM Act amnesty.

Phone them by contacting the Senate switchboard at 202-224-3121.

Alabama: Shelby
Alaska: Murkowski, Stevens
Arkansas: Pryor
Colorado: Allard
Georgia: Chambliss, Isakson
Idaho: Crapo
Indiana: Bayh
Iowa: Grassley, Harkin
Kansas: Brownback,Roberts
Kentucky: McConnell
Louisiana: Landrieu
Maine: Collins
Michigan: Stabenow
Minnesota: Coleman
Mississippi: Cochran
Missouri: Bond, McCaskill
Montana: Baucus, Tester
Nebraska: Nelson (Ben)
Nevada: Ensign
New Hampshire: Sununu
New Mexico: Bingaman, Domenici
North Dakota: Dorgan
Ohio: Brown, Voinovich
Oklahoma: Coburn
Oregon: Smith
South Carolina: DeMint
South Dakota: *Johnson, Thune
Tennessee: Alexander, Corker
Texas: Cornyn, Hutchison
Utah: Hatch
Vermont: Sanders
Virginia: Warner, Webb
West Virginia: Byrd, Rockefeller
Wyoming: Enzi

apropos
09-18-2007, 07:53 AM
Doing this now.

Lord Xar
09-18-2007, 10:35 AM
CALL TODAY/TOMORROW.

This will DISPLACE American Students and allow Foreign Nationals a first crack at college OVER OUR OWN CITIZENS!! OUR OWN POOR -- at OUR EXPENSE!

CALL NOW. IT IS SUGGESTED WE WILL LOOSE BECAUSE THE PUBLIC DOESN"T know about this bill AND because the Senators do NOT know what is it.. AMNESTY!!!

CALL NOW, LITE UP THOSE SWITCHBOARD AND FAXES.

VOTE NO ON THE DREAM ACT

lucius
09-18-2007, 10:36 AM
Done!

Givemelibertyor.....
09-18-2007, 11:30 AM
NC Senator's Burr and Dole are going to oppose the DREAM Act.

Stealth4
09-18-2007, 12:13 PM
Done, my senators havent decided yet (VA) so I will have to call back.

Please sign up to numbersUSA.com to get the emails. Check out your representatives scorecards.

this is a great way to start getting involved outside of supporting RP.

Lord Xar
09-18-2007, 12:17 PM
NC Senator's Burr and Dole are going to oppose the DREAM Act.

AWESOME!!

we need NO on the DREAM ACT -- OPPOSE IT!!

lisajames96
09-19-2007, 09:41 AM
NC Senator's Burr and Dole are going to oppose the DREAM Act.
Dole still has no position last time I checked. But I am pretty sure she will oppose it too. This was only my second time ever contacting senators directly instead of just signing petitions. I can get used to this.
-lisa

nullvalu
09-19-2007, 09:44 AM
When will this be voted on?

Givemelibertyor.....
09-19-2007, 09:45 AM
Quite possibly today.

Lord Xar
09-20-2007, 07:34 PM
When will this be voted on?

They are thinking MONDAY. Durbin is a corrupt poltician and he is against the ropes so he is probably scrambling to rewrite to make it this 'shit go down smoother'.

Listen, this IS AMNESTY. This allows illegals to circument LEGAL immigrants in getting citizenship AND college seats. It also puts OUR CITZENS and Legals immigrants in DIRECT COMPETITION with federal funding......

Why black americans, hispanic americans and anybody is NOT UP IN ARMS OVER THIS BILL --- It is a travesty...

the North American Union is coming fast and furious..

VOTE NO to the DREAM ACT.

CALL ALL THE SENATORS -- leave a voicemail to say NO to the DREAM ACT.

Call as many senators as possible. Not just your own.

There is also CHAIN MIGRATION on this.. so the millions of beneficiaries of this bill would then sponsor their mothers/fathers/brothers/sistesr/cousins etc.... This will also promote MORE illegal immigration as illegals will cross the border and enroll their kids.... in school, then apply for the provisions in the DREAM ACT.

WE ARE BEING SCREWED BY SPECIAL INTERESTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And again, us taxpayers will foot the bill.

go to numbersusa.com and alipac.us FOR a list of numbers and talking points.

NO NO NO NO NO on the Dream act.

A dream act to illegals, a NIGHTMARE for American Citizens.


"The bigger problem with the DREAM Act is that the reward for the children of illegal aliens comes at the expense of other people’s kids. For most middle class families, paying for college is one of the biggest concerns. A slot at a state university, where tuition is heavily subsidized, is for many families the best, if not the only, viable option. These limited seats at public universities and colleges are becoming ever more highly prized and admission is often as competitive as it is to Ivy League schools. Thus, the admission of a newly legalized DREAM Act beneficiary to a state university is guaranteed to come at the expense of another kid in that state who worked just as hard, has just as admirable goals and dreams, and whose family didn’t break the law."

SeanEdwards
09-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Just a question?

By some chance are you employed or have ever been employed by the council of la raza?

You seem very much like some of their online workers based on the council of la raza talking points....

It seems you recite them word for word.

Well, here's a shocker. Yet another internet dweller, who when unable to present any kind of reasoned argument to justify their beliefs resorts instead to impugning the motivations or honesty of the party they disagree with.

Here's some questions for you:

Have you ever tried to think critically about what you believe and why? Have you ever considered using logic and persuasion to convince others instead of moving immediately to personal ad hominem attacks?

SeanEdwards
09-20-2007, 07:58 PM
Wanting to deport some 18 year old kid who has lived the past 17 years of their life in the U.S. is unamerican, and you all should be ashamed for wanting to do such a thing.

Stealth4
09-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Sean,

I understand and agree with the case you mentioned, but the devil is in the details. The wording of the bill would not mean amnesty just for those who you mentioned but many others who do not deserve to stay here.

please go to www.numbersusa.com and read up on the problems with the dream act.

If you still disagree after that then I will respect your opinion, but please take a look first at the real issues.

Legislation can always have good intent, but if not written well it can have huge consequences.

SeanEdwards
09-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Sean,

I understand and agree with the case you mentioned, but the devil is in the details. The wording of the bill would not mean amnesty just for those who you mentioned but many others who do not deserve to stay here.

please go to www.numbersusa.com and read up on the problems with the dream act.

If you still disagree after that then I will respect your opinion, but please take a look first at the real issues.

Legislation can always have good intent, but if not written well it can have huge consequences.

Now this is an argument I can agree with. The specific legislation here may indeed be flawed in that it may created a loohole that is open to being exploited by illegals who are undeserving.

However, I remain deeply offended that many posters in this thread have replied that they see nothing wrong with deporting the type of person I've described. For these posters, the issue is not whether the bill is exploited by undeserving, the issue for them is that they literally want to eject people who have lived their whole lives in the U.S., because the parents of these people committed a crime by entering the country illegally. That is a position I find repugnant. Anybody who can seriously endorse deporting some 18 year old who has lived 17 years in the US and graduated a U.S. high school deserves a trip to the woodshed, imo.

paulitics
09-20-2007, 08:20 PM
Now this is an argument I can agree with. The specific legislation here may indeed be flawed in that it may created a loohole that is open to being exploited by illegals who are undeserving.

However, I remain deeply offended that many posters in this thread have replied that they see nothing wrong with deporting the type of person I've described. For these posters, the issue is not whether the bill is exploited by undeserving, the issue for them is that they literally want to eject people who have lived their whole lives in the U.S., because the parents of these people committed a crime by entering the country illegally. That is a position I find repugnant. Anybody who can seriously endorse deporting some 18 year old who has lived 17 years in the US and graduated a U.S. high school deserves a trip to the woodshed, imo.

the issue is the intentional loopholes and the attack on america's sovereignty.

RP4ME
09-20-2007, 08:28 PM
i called - Warnerss office wasnt convinced that it woudl even make it to teh floor as an amendment b/c it was so oppsed this summer.....Warner was to vote NO if it came up..Jim Webb hadnt decided - sissybritches.....

ThePieSwindler
09-20-2007, 08:45 PM
tl;dr.. .can anyone tell me in a few short sentances what the dream act entails? Fuck this piecemeal amnesty, btw.

ChooseLiberty
09-20-2007, 09:26 PM
An 18 yo is an adult in most states. Your question is meaningless.

Unexpected things happen to people everyday. Most of the high school students I've seen who grew up in the US as babies of illegals are usually virulently anti-American and pro- mexican. We'd be doing them a favor to send them back so they can show their love for mexico. ;)



Now this is an argument I can agree with. The specific legislation here may indeed be flawed in that it may created a loohole that is open to being exploited by illegals who are undeserving.

However, I remain deeply offended that many posters in this thread have replied that they see nothing wrong with deporting the type of person I've described. For these posters, the issue is not whether the bill is exploited by undeserving, the issue for them is that they literally want to eject people who have lived their whole lives in the U.S., because the parents of these people committed a crime by entering the country illegally. That is a position I find repugnant. Anybody who can seriously endorse deporting some 18 year old who has lived 17 years in the US and graduated a U.S. high school deserves a trip to the woodshed, imo.

ChooseLiberty
09-20-2007, 09:31 PM
Amazingly - the illegal's babies will probably even get preference over law abiding citizens children under "diversity", quota and affirmative action programs.

So the illegals who barely make enough money to pay income taxes if they were legal will be paid for by law abiding citizens.



Listen, this IS AMNESTY. This allows illegals to circument LEGAL immigrants in getting citizenship AND college seats. It also puts OUR CITZENS and Legals immigrants in DIRECT COMPETITION with federal funding......



"The bigger problem with the DREAM Act is that the reward for the children of illegal aliens comes at the expense of other people’s kids. For most middle class families, paying for college is one of the biggest concerns. A slot at a state university, where tuition is heavily subsidized, is for many families the best, if not the only, viable option. These limited seats at public universities and colleges are becoming ever more highly prized and admission is often as competitive as it is to Ivy League schools. Thus, the admission of a newly legalized DREAM Act beneficiary to a state university is guaranteed to come at the expense of another kid in that state who worked just as hard, has just as admirable goals and dreams, and whose family didn’t break the law."

Lord Xar
09-21-2007, 12:59 AM
Amazingly - the illegal's babies will probably even get preference over law abiding citizens children under "diversity", quota and affirmative action programs.

So the illegals who barely make enough money to pay income taxes if they were legal will be paid for by law abiding citizens.

Yes, but not only that.. our ALREADY crowded field would be even more crowded. The resources for AMERICA'S poor will now be split and we will have to subsidize this. I do not understand why black, asian, hispanic american citizens or those seeking citizenship legally are not UP IN ARMS!!!!

The devil is IN the details.. this is AMNESTY that would probably give about 10 million illegals amnesty... and probably more. If you think our system is flawed now with fake documents, wait till the illegals are clamoring for fake documents to schools or residency etc..... they will be coming en'masse after this..

THIS MUST NOT PASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is AMNESTY and this is a subsidization of amnesty.

I can't even put my daughter in public school because of how horrible its become with such a HUGE influx of illegals, and now I gotta foot the bill for private school.. Now when she gets older i gotta now have her compete with illegals for funding and seats in college... FORGET IT!!! And then I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize this.. and the Bill is so broadly written you can achieve status by a correspondance coarse! Then they can petition for their parents, siblings... for amnesty... SO, the parents break the law and then they are rewarded by proxy from their offspring because the child can then sponsor the parents!!! REWARDING ILLEGAL BEHAVIOUR!!!

People, we are on our way to the North American Union and socialism....

STOP THIS DREAM ACT... now SA 2919

VOTE NO.. CALL, CALL, CALL ALL SENATORS AND TELL THEM NO!!!!!

Givemelibertyor.....
09-21-2007, 08:47 AM
Called Sen. Barrasso's office. (Wyoming)

Said they are opposed to amnesty, will say no to the DREAM Act.

Shink
09-21-2007, 01:30 PM
I'm really piecing this all together now, from a NWO perspective. The engineered crash depends wholly on illegal aliens to come take our jobs and work for Depression-like wages so that elimination of the middle class can be completed. Roll out martial law to assist in defeating dissenters, stuff the military with Mexicans to fuel the war machine, assimilate all sovereign nations into the UN, checkmate. *sigh*

Givemelibertyor.....
09-21-2007, 01:53 PM
Called Sen. Pryor (Arkansas). Hasn't issued a public statement on the DREAM Act yet.

Told him to oppose it.

RP4ME
09-22-2007, 10:39 PM
has this vote happened yet? Warners office told me they thought it wouldnt be added as an amendment afer all b/c it so poorly received....but they woudl vote NO