Higher education advice for a sophomore in high school?

[priest_of_syrinx]

Okay, so I'm a sophomore in a public high school. I have all A's and my predicted ACT score is 33-36, and I know people that have gotten full ride scholarships for 33, but I'm not willing to bet on that for myself right now. I'm really being pushed into a college education, but I'm afraid of the debt. Sure, I would love to get a degree in an academic area that I'm passionate about (journalism, music, economics, who knows), but I really don't know if I can pull it off with this financial crisis.

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union? What is a good way to start your own business without getting into major debt? Thanks.

[ladyjade3]

Maybe you can get some kind of scholarship that helps out with the bulk of your expenses, and allows you to have a job to work off the rest. If you can work your way through and pay as you go, and you're smart about what you study, then its a good option. Don't waste your time with underwater basketweaving type classes, only take as much music and literature as you have to to complete requirements, otherwise, take economics and business classes, stuff that has a real world point to it - and also learn something truly marketable, like HVAC repair! Or welding, or plumbing, auto repair, something that is immediately practical and useful. You will never regret it, even if you just use it around the house.

That's my advice.

[heavenlyboy34]

Okay, so I'm a sophomore in a public high school. I have all A's and my predicted ACT score is 33-36, and I know people that have gotten full ride scholarships for 33, but I'm not willing to bet on that for myself right now. I'm really being pushed into a college education, but I'm afraid of the debt. Sure, I would love to get a degree in an academic area that I'm passionate about (journalism, music, economics, who knows), but I really don't know if I can pull it off with this financial crisis.

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union? What is a good way to start your own business without getting into major debt? Thanks.

People who can repair things are always useful. Welders, machinists, repairmen, carpenters, etc. After you find an entry level job, go to school part time for a degree in a field you are REALLY passionate about. This way, you will be able support yourself while funding your own goals. The market was so distorted in 2000 when I entered college, this never would have occurred to me. Now that I've been there, done that, I hope you can benefit from the shit I've suffered through. Good luck! ~hugs~ :) btw...ask your librarian about hiring trends in your area. This will help you too.

[TastyWheat]

Take a look at jobs you'd want to have now. If almost none of them require a Bachelor's then just get an Associate's. Usually experience is more marketable than education. If you keep up your grades you should also apply for a lot of grants in the future. I knew a guy that literally lived off of grants.

[priest_of_syrinx]

only take as much music and literature as you have to to complete requirements

Good advice, but I really don't like this sentence. Music is what keeps me going; I'm currently in 3 music classes plus jazz band before school and I'm in a rock band with friends. To be honest, music is what I'm most passionate about, but it's the most difficult to get a career in.

Maybe I could do something where I work with a rock band that's already established... What kind of education would I need for either something to do with sound engineering on the road or maybe producing albums in a studio? I know that Minnesota State University at Moorhead has music industry programs; maybe that would be something to check out?

[schiffstudent]

Good advice, but I really don't like this sentence. Music is what keeps me going; I'm currently in 3 music classes plus jazz band before school and I'm in a rock band with friends. To be honest, music is what I'm most passionate about, but it's the most difficult to get a career in.

Maybe I could do something where I work with a rock band that's already established... What kind of education would I need for either something to do with sound engineering on the road or maybe producing albums in a studio? I know that Minnesota State University at Moorhead has music industry programs; maybe that would be something to check out?


What are your other passions? To be realistic, you need to have other areas of interest than just music, don't waste an education on it, also seriously consider a life abroad.

[heavenlyboy34]

Good advice, but I really don't like this sentence. Music is what keeps me going; I'm currently in 3 music classes plus jazz band before school and I'm in a rock band with friends. To be honest, music is what I'm most passionate about, but it's the most difficult to get a career in.

Maybe I could do something where I work with a rock band that's already established... What kind of education would I need for either something to do with sound engineering on the road or maybe producing albums in a studio? I know that Minnesota State University at Moorhead has music industry programs; maybe that would be something to check out?

Here in Phoenix we have an institute for Recording Arts. You should google that in your area. :)

[heavenlyboy34]

What are your other passions? To be realistic, you need to have other areas of interest than just music, don't waste an education on it, also seriously consider a life abroad.

It wasn't a waste for Yo-yo Ma, Itzak Perlman, myself, and numerous others. ;) The student tends to be more of the issue when music ed fails. You're right that diversity is good, though. :D

[priest_of_syrinx]

What are your other passions? To be realistic, you need to have other areas of interest than just music, don't waste an education on it, also seriously consider a life abroad.

Other passions are writing (I did take a journalism class), chemistry, politics/economics/philosophy. I'm good at math, but I hate it, so I don't know if economics would work out so well.

[emazur]

I haven't read it but this book sounds very interesting and useful for teens:
http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/0962959170

[priest_of_syrinx]

I haven't read it but this book sounds very interesting and useful for teens:
http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/0962959170
I'm sorry, but I really don't plan on something like this. I'm talking about after high school on this thread. I can survive two more years.

[priest_of_syrinx]

For some reason, after people calling my music education a "waste", I got so flustered that I forgot to mention that I'm the 4th best high school trumpeter in the state and I'm a sophomore. (This is according to all-state rankings. There are 4 trumpets in all-state orchestra and I'm #4)

[dannno]

Other passions are writing (I did take a journalism class), chemistry, politics/economics/philosophy. I'm good at math, but I hate it, so I don't know if economics would work out so well.

Econ doesn't require a lot of math compared to sciences or engineering. A couple calculus classes and a statistics class and you're done. You may be able to beat half the requirements or more in high school.

[heavenlyboy34]

For some reason, after people calling my music education a "waste", I got so flustered that I forgot to mention that I'm the 4th best high school trumpeter in the state and I'm a sophomore. (This is according to all-state rankings. There are 4 trumpets in all-state orchestra and I'm #4)

Don't listen to folks who tell you music ed is a waste. If you're really good, you'll be able to make money playing live in most economic situations. Make sure you can read like hell, though. If you go to a gig and can't follow the chart, you'll get fired faster than you can count to 4. ;):eek:

[priest_of_syrinx]

Don't listen to folks who tell you music ed is a waste. If you're really good, you'll be able to make money playing live in most economic situations. Make sure you can read like hell, though. If you go to a gig and can't follow the chart, you'll get fired faster than you can count to 4. ;):eek:

I'm pretty good at reading as it is for trumpet, but I'm lacking in my other instruments.

For instance, I'm in a rock band with a couple friends and we're already starting to write our own tunes. I can write complex stuff down or transcribe stuff I learn from tabs to sheet music easily, but I think that if I was to sightread a piece of guitar music I'd never heard before, I'd get really confused.

I hate to say it, but there is a lot more that goes into learning guitar than what goes into learning trumpet. With guitar it takes years just to be good at technique and composition. That's mainly what I'm working on right now. If we're a performance group writing our own stuff, what does it matter if we can sightread on our rock instruments?

I don't know. I'm a little scattered on this. One part wants me to do maybe orchestral or jazz trumpet and one part of me wants to focus equally on my rock band. I probably have a lot more promise with trumpet because I've played it 2 years longer, gotten private lessons, and am already pretty skilled at it.

[heavenlyboy34]

The way to improve your reading is to do it as much as possible. Go to the music store or webbernet and buy some books of tunes for your instrument. Sight read through them once and pitch them away. The more you do this, the better you'll be in associating notes with positions on the instrument. :D:) If you attend music school, your music librarian may be able to provide you with material.:o (that's what I did in music school ;):))



I'm pretty good at reading as it is for trumpet, but I'm lacking in my other instruments.

For instance, I'm in a rock band with a couple friends and we're already starting to write our own tunes. I can write complex stuff down or transcribe stuff I learn from tabs to sheet music easily, but I think that if I was to sightread a piece of guitar music I'd never heard before, I'd get really confused.

I hate to say it, but there is a lot more that goes into learning guitar than what goes into learning trumpet. With guitar it takes years just to be good at technique and composition. That's mainly what I'm working on right now. If we're a performance group writing our own stuff, what does it matter if we can sightread on our rock instruments?

I don't know. I'm a little scattered on this. One part wants me to do maybe orchestral or jazz trumpet and one part of me wants to focus equally on my rock band. I probably have a lot more promise with trumpet because I've played it 2 years longer, gotten private lessons, and am already pretty skilled at it.

[Natalie]

Okay, so I'm a sophomore in a public high school. I have all A's and my predicted ACT score is 33-36, and I know people that have gotten full ride scholarships for 33, but I'm not willing to bet on that for myself right now. I'm really being pushed into a college education, but I'm afraid of the debt. Sure, I would love to get a degree in an academic area that I'm passionate about (journalism, music, economics, who knows), but I really don't know if I can pull it off with this financial crisis.

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union? What is a good way to start your own business without getting into major debt? Thanks.

I would recommend going to Community College for your first two years of school. I went to Community College for my first two years, and it was half the price of the University. You can get all your basic classes out of the way, and it saves a ton of money.

[heavenlyboy34]

I would recommend going to Community College for your first two years of school. I went to Community College for my first two years, and it was half the price of the University. You can get all your basic classes out of the way, and it saves a ton of money.

+9999999! Bunchies agrees too! :D

[torchbearer]

trade school or apprenticeship.

[Wild Eyes]

I just recently finished my own degree and I've thought considerably on what I would have done differently. Your passion is music, and mine was writing; I was writing my own fiction as early as kindergarten, and I remained passionate about it even up through high school (after which most dreams die). So I pursued an English degree with a focus in Creative Writing. It was the biggest mistake of my life. By the time I graduated, my passion for writing was dead and every dollar I made went into a degree that I didn't want.

1. If you go to college, do it to get a job. Regardless of what your passion is, you need to eat.

2. Your passion is something you're going to do anyway, so why spend your college money on it?

3. Before you crack open your wallet - even before you put pen to paper on a college application, know exactly - explicitly - what your goals are. You can waste years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars if you have no idea what you want to accomplish.

4. Do not put yourself in debt. Ever. Debt is slavery. I worked 50-60 hours a week for five years, never making more than $9.90 an hour, on top of 5-7 classes a semester - and every penny I made went into tuition, rent, food, or bills. It was brutal, but I graduated without putting myself under a single penny of debt. I've heard horror stories of students graduating with $60,000 of debt from student loans - loans they will never pay off, because they can't find work now. Even though I graduated right into the hiring freeze in 2008, I owe no money, and every dollar I make - as crappy as my job is - is mine. Do not fall into the debt trap.

5. Please listen to this one: College is not the next step after high school. This is largely why I went to college; because it was expected, because that's just what people do after high school. For most, college is just an extension of adolescence; it delays the inevitable. If a college education won't help you get where you need to go, then don't get one.

6. If you're absolutely certain that music is what you want to do with your life, and you have the will to make a living of it regardless of the obstacles, then do it. If you have the talent, a degree isn't going to make a difference.

7. Computer technicians, auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians; these trades are worth their weight in gold. You can make some good money with any of them. They sure as hell beat fastfood and retail - take my word for it.

[angelatc]

Okay, so I'm a sophomore in a public high school. I have all A's and my predicted ACT score is 33-36, and I know people that have gotten full ride scholarships for 33, but I'm not willing to bet on that for myself right now. I'm really being pushed into a college education, but I'm afraid of the debt. Sure, I would love to get a degree in an academic area that I'm passionate about (journalism, music, economics, who knows), but I really don't know if I can pull it off with this financial crisis.

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union? What is a good way to start your own business without getting into major debt? Thanks.

If you can get a full ride, take it. If not, go to Junior College and take 1 or two classes every semester, paying cash. Get a job with a company that pays for education.

Or go to Hillside. THey don't take federal funding.

Start a lawn & snow removal business. Your only initial outlay is a mower and/or a shovel.

[ihsvsgirl]

If you can get a full ride, take it. If not, go to Junior College and take 1 or two classes every semester, paying cash. Get a job with a company that pays for education.

Or go to Hillside. THey don't take federal funding.

Start a lawn & snow removal business. Your only initial outlay is a mower and/or a shovel.

I think you mean Hillsdale. ;)

Do lots of research into the privately-funded scholarships. I wrote three essays per week just applying for scholarships my senior year of high school. There are lots of wacky ones, and scholarships limited to certain groups of people that go unclaimed. I ended up with free tuition and books for the whole four years, and chose a school close to home so I could live with my parents and have free room and board. It was uncool, but now I'm the one who has no debt and my friends are still working on student loans 10 years later.

[AisA1787]

Okay, so I'm a sophomore in a public high school. I have all A's and my predicted ACT score is 33-36, and I know people that have gotten full ride scholarships for 33, but I'm not willing to bet on that for myself right now. I'm really being pushed into a college education, but I'm afraid of the debt. Sure, I would love to get a degree in an academic area that I'm passionate about (journalism, music, economics, who knows), but I really don't know if I can pull it off with this financial crisis.

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union? What is a good way to start your own business without getting into major debt? Thanks.


I'm concerned that you feel you are "being pushed into a college education." College is a personal choice, and no one should force you into it. You're wise to be afraid of the debt. The debt is real and can be a huge burden on your life and relationships (especially marriage). Unlike other forms of debt, student loans follow you forever; you can declare bankruptcy a million times and your college loans will still be there. They are not discharged in a bankruptcy unless you can prove severe hardship. Good luck with that :rolleyes:

I agree with the previous members who suggested doing part of your course work at a community college, and that you especially shouldn't go to college just because it's "the next step." The bachelor's degree is, for the most part, simply big business - they just want your money (It's not simple coincidence that student loans don't go away in a bankruptcy). I say this from the perspective of someone who has been around "higher" education for the better part of 10 years; I have B.A., B.S., and M.S. degrees from an ivy league college and am currently working on a PhD in engineering at a state university.

Without knowing more about your educational background and career goals, I can't give specific advice. I'm particularly non-helpful in the music education arena, although I will suggest you investigate Full Sail University for an associates degree if you're interested in the recording arts (http://www.fullsail.com/). It's basically a trade school, like you mentioned in your original post. I have a friend who went there and did well for himself. I don't know much about the price tag, though.

If you want a bachelor's degree, you can get it for a very reasonable price if you don't mind doing it the unconventional way. Gary North, a contributor to Lew Rockwell (http://www.lewrockwell.com/), has written a good guide for high school students who want to get their degree without going into massive debt. It's a free guide and, although the website is a little cheesy, the advice he gives is very good. I recommend taking a couple of hours to read through it carefully. Here is the website: http://www.lowestcostcolleges.com/

Here is an excerpt from the guide that I think sums things up nicely:


By using a combination of AP, CLEP, DSST, and Ohio University, you can get a bachelor’s degree for under $12,000. The Ivy League schools charge $155,000: room, board, tuition, and books. (Yale charges $164,000.) Factor in transportation and other expenses, and it approaches $160,000, or it will after the next four years of tuition increases. Let me assure you, there is no way that the education at an Ivy League school is 13 times better than what I have proposed here. The hours in the day are not enough, and your IQ is not high enough, to overcome 13 to one. You will not earn 13 times more money based on where you earn your B.A., Harvard vs. Ohio University.

It is time for me to let you in on a little-known fact that the Ivy League schools would prefer than the public not know about. The U.S. Department of Education has published a report, College Quality and the Earnings of Recent College Graduates. The researchers studied the relationship between a bachelor’s degree from private, expensive, academically selective colleges and the graduates’ wages. Then they compared these economic returns with degrees from less expensive state universities. They concluded that, for males, the additional earnings that can be attributed to the quality of the college that issued the degree are between 11% to 16%. For females, this is 12%. (This assumes that the women remain in the labor force full-time.) The report concluded: “From this perspective, students may choose to avail themselves of the least expensive alternative that provides the major in which they are interested.”


I'm not going to knock highly selective undergraduate colleges - I went to one myself, loved it, and believe the education to be of much higher quality than the average college. However, as Gary North points out, it's not a wise economic decision. That is of course, unless your parents can pay for it out of pocket without blinking an eye.

There is also a wealth of other higher ed information at http://www.lewrockwell.com/

Just go to the bottom of the home page and do a search for "college debt" or "higher education" and you'll find lots of great articles.

Edit: Regarding starting your own business without going into debt, the simple answer is..... don't finance it with debt! :) Get a job, save lots of money and learn about the business you want to start while you're saving up for it. Read books about it, work in the business, talk to people who have started successful businesses in that area. It's cliche, but there are simply no shortcuts here.

[weslinder]

Do you guys have any recommendations of jobs that may just require education from a trade school, but don't require any involvement in a union?

Virtually any trade that has union representation will also have "scab" shops that hire non-union tradesmen. But if you want to get a trade that can translate into a private business, I think the best (at least in my field, oil and gas) is machining, possibly followed by electrical. We use a lot of small, independent machine shops, and a few small, independent electrical companies. For most other trades, other than the highly specialized ones like PLC programming, we contract with bigger companies.

Want to add: Don't be put off by anyone who looks down on trade school. I'm a reasonably successful engineer, graduated first in my college class, and I recently scrapped MBA plans, and I'm considering going to trade school to learn a skilled trade (probably welding, maybe mechanic). I may never do it for a living, but they are useful skills, and in a severely depressed economy, craftsmen are worth more than professionals.

[heavenlyboy34]

Virtually any trade that has union representation will also have "scab" shops that hire non-union tradesmen. But if you want to get a trade that can translate into a private business, I think the best (at least in my field, oil and gas) is machining, possibly followed by electrical. We use a lot of small, independent machine shops, and a few small, independent electrical companies. For most other trades, other than the highly specialized ones like PLC programming, we contract with bigger companies.

Want to add: Don't be put off by anyone who looks down on trade school. I'm a reasonably successful engineer, graduated first in my college class, and I recently scrapped MBA plans, and I'm considering going to trade school to learn a skilled trade (probably welding, maybe mechanic). I may never do it for a living, but they are useful skills, and in a severely depressed economy, craftsmen are worth more than professionals.

Welding is a great and useful skill to have! I happen to have it myself(though I'm rather rusty nowadays). ;):)

[brandon]

If you have a somewhat decent community college in your area, go there. They are usually dirt cheap, as in about $1000/year, and you can get federal grants to cover most of it.

Spend some time there figuring out what it is you really want to do. After you know what you want to do, find a good university that will accept transfer credits from your community college.

This is what I did. It worked out great.