Could we stop mentioning Libertarian?

[ghemminger]

As a recent convert from NeoConsevitism - I can tell you that when ever the MSM media mentions Libertarism - it is meant to be a put down. We hurt ourselves buy mentioning it so much

NOW - I totaly respect libertarians

BUT - The majority of American have a tainted view of Libertarian or Liberty type descriptions like:

Crazy, Not mainstream, Idealistic to the point of ridiculous, radical, Isolationist, Fringe, Like the Democrats, Anarchists, and other neg. vibes

[LibertyOfOne]

I wouldn't have known about Ron if it was not for the Libertarian Party.

[smhbbag]

Amen

[Ridiculous]

Ronald Regan, 1975:

"If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

[specsaregood]

On the flipside: The majority of Americans NOW have tainted view of Conservatism.
Descriptions such as: selfish, greedy, war-monger, nazis

In fact, the fact that the Giuliani campaign/writers have TRIED in more than a few articles to label Giuliani Libertarian-leaning implies to me that your stereotypes might not be so true anymore.

[mdh]

I wouldn't have known about Ron if it was not for the Libertarian Party.

Yeah, same here...

[Sakimoto]

:confused: Ron Paul is libertarian. So am I. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed about - regardless of peoples ignorance... You see, most people don't have a clue about the principles of liberty. So, suggesting to stop calling him libertarian, because of the ignorance of others is kind of silly. It's time to look past the labels and stop watering down the message to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[specsaregood]

And just to add:
http://www.jbs.org/node/4750
"The New American’s "Freedom Index," a twice-a-year feature, was formerly known as "The Conservative Index." The name was changed beginning with this latest index because the word "conservative" no longer connotes constitutional principles of limited government at home and avoiding foreign entanglements abroad, as it once did. In fact, in recent years the word "conservative" has increasingly been associated with policies that used to be considered decidedly "liberal," particularly since George W. Bush has occupied the White House"

[LibertyEagle]

I wouldn't have known about Ron if it was not for the Libertarian Party.

Yes, but this does not negate what George is saying. We have most of the Libertarians on board. Now, we need to go after the others.

What George is saying is true. The media is repeating Libertarian, over and over again, to diss him. For Republicans, the purpose is to make him seem as something other than one of them. Like he's not really a Republican.

[Delaware]

Ron Paul is a libertarian constitutionalist, which is basically what conservatism used to be and stand for.

[LibertyEagle]

:confused: Ron Paul is libertarian. So am I. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed about - regardless of peoples ignorance... You see, most people don't have a clue about the principles of liberty. So, suggesting to stop calling him libertarian, because of the ignorance of others is kind of silly. It's time to look past the labels and stop watering down the message to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Actually, he disagrees with the Libertarian party on more than one issue. He is more aptly described as a Constitutionalist, or a libertarian-conservative. When we are talking to Republicans, we should push that he is a long-time Republican. That both Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan referred to themselves as libertarian-conservatives. This is the true basis of traditional conservatism.

[LibertyEagle]

On the flipside: The majority of Americans NOW have tainted view of Conservatism.
Descriptions such as: selfish, greedy, war-monger, nazis

In fact, the fact that the Giuliani campaign/writers have TRIED in more than a few articles to label Giuliani Libertarian-leaning implies to me that your stereotypes might not be so true anymore.

We have to judge our audience and adapt. Republicans want to know he is one of them, a Republican. Then, we can start reminding them that libertarian-conservatism was the ideology of Barry Goldwater, who is credited with reviving traditional conservatism. It was on his platform that Reagan, ran.

Traditional conservatism is very different than neoconservatism. Which is what we have going on now.

traditional conservative principles:
- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

[specsaregood]

LE, I agree with you that constantly referring to him as a Libertarian is INTENDED to damage him.

However, my point is that this tactic might very well backfire on them. When they see him in the GOP debates, see the R-TX next to his name, or manage to do a search on him; hopefully they will see he IS a Republican.

But, I think there is a good chance that their tactic could/is backfiring on them, as it does demonstrate that he IS different than the others. It might very well entice those disenfranchised goldwater types to find out more about him.

[JMann]

:confused: Ron Paul is libertarian. So am I. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed about - regardless of peoples ignorance... You see, most people don't have a clue about the principles of liberty. So, suggesting to stop calling him libertarian, because of the ignorance of others is kind of silly. It's time to look past the labels and stop watering down the message to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Nothing to be ashamed about? What about the disgrace that is the national LP (i understand the l vs. L). The party that manages to turn about 33% of the country support into less than 1% of the vote every four years by nominating people like Badnarik who may be possibly qualified for the job of city council in Hammond, Indiana.

[Kregener]

I am with you Liberty Eagle.

Ron is much closer to a Constitutionalist (as I identify myself -- and closer to the Constitution Party, NOT the Constitutionalist Party) than a Libertarian.

Ron Paul ran as the Libertarian candidate because he knew he could never "get in" as a Republican, and he certainly was no Democrat.

Seeing that no viable third party was ever going to be allowed into the Good 'Ol Boys Network inside the beltway, Ron moved to Republican to try to fix it from within.

[Bruehound]

Contrary to what the OM may think, the public does not have an adverse reaction to the term libertarian when used with a small "l".

It is the Libertarian Party that has a negative reaction. People are not rejecting the libertarian philosophy at all they are simply dismissing the LP as a brand name because they associate it with 35 years of incompetence.

[mdh]

This thread is full of ignorance and BS.

Paleoconservative.
Classical liberal.
Libertarian.

I'm all of these things; as is Dr. Paul.

[mdh]

Contrary to what the OM may think, the public does not have an adverse reaction to the term libertarian when used with a small "l".

It is the Libertarian Party that has a negative reaction. People are not rejecting the libertarian philosophy at all they are simply dismissing the LP as a brand name because they associate it with 35 years of incompetence.

If the LP is so incompetent, how come it's the third largest party in the US? :p

Given the juggernauts that are #1 and #2, I'd say #3 is a pretty respectable rank.

[ghemminger]

Contrary to what the OM may think, the public does not have an adverse reaction to the term libertarian when used with a small "l".

It is the Libertarian Party that has a negative reaction. People are not rejecting the libertarian philosophy at all they are simply dismissing the LP as a brand name because they associate it with 35 years of incompetence.

NOPE - I love Libertarians - but the consistent use of it is negative - I'm just giving you perspective

What drew me to Ron Paul was is "F the establisment" attitude - which is very anti-dem and now anti-Rep-------this movement will morph into next stage through the (GOT THE WORD):

INDEPENDENTS!!!!!!

[Hamburglar]

I agree. I'd suggest we try to call Ron Paul an American Constitutionalist when talking to neoconservatives. Neocons love everything American except democrats.

Perseption matters, neocons hear libertarian and their brain shuts off and they stop listening. We need to ease some people into Ron Paul's positions not slam it in their face and expect them to change their world view in a few seconds.

[LibertyEagle]

If the LP is so incompetent, how come it's the third largest party in the US? :p

Given the juggernauts that are #1 and #2, I'd say #3 is a pretty respectable rank.

We are trying to get the nomination of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. I don't care how much anyone loves the Libertarian Party. That is not the nomination we are seeking right now.

[Sakimoto]

Nothing to be ashamed about? What about the disgrace that is the national LP (i understand the l vs. L). The party that manages to turn about 33% of the country support into less than 1% of the vote every four years by nominating people like Badnarik who may be possibly qualified for the job of city council in Hammond, Indiana.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the Libertarian party. Just the philosophy. Ron Paul isn't in the LP party anymore, but he is a libertarian in philosophy.

[mdh]

We are trying to get the nomination of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. I don't care how much anyone loves the Libertarian Party. That is not the nomination we are seeking right now.

That fact is completely irrelevant in response to my statements. Please re-examine the context, and the statements to which I was directly replying.

[mdh]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the Libertarian party. Just the philosophy. Ron Paul isn't in the LP party anymore, but he is a libertarian in philosophy.

Actually, Dr. Paul is a life member of the Libertarian Party.

[ButchHowdy]

Personally, I am a Disestablishmentarianist. In other words, I am opposed to Establishmentarianists. But, there's people who Oppose Disestablishmentarianists like myself and I would label them as Antidisestablishmentarianists.

However, I am happy to be a Disestablishmentarianist.

[LibertyEagle]

Actually, Dr. Paul is a life member of the Libertarian Party.

mdh, this thread reminds me of the 911 truther threads. People get all into sticking up for their own little perceived group, instead of staying focused on how to get Dr. Paul elected. That's what we're here for, isn't it?

[iamso910]

We should avoid compromise!

Whatever Ron Paul can achieve is just a start. He cannot return us to liberty even as president, though he might take a few chunks out of the state.

The best hope is that he is increasingly successful at promoting an ideology, and an ideology needs a name. Libertarianism seems to me to be the best name for that ideology.

While libertarianism is linked to traditional republican and conservative values, it is something separate and something far stronger.

We should wish that the stranglehold of the 2 party system be demolished, so that other parties and independents can play a significant role in political debate.

While expedience may lead us into the 2 party system in the short term, it should not allow us to sacrifice ideals, for it is ideas which will carry on, and ideas need a brand to carry them. There is no better brand than libertarianism at this time. We should not forfeit it.

[Sakimoto]

We should avoid compromise!

Whateer Ron Paul can achieve is just a start. He cannot return us to liberty even as president, though he might take a few chucks out of the state.

The best hope is that he is increasingly successful at promoting an ideology, and an ideology needs a name. Libertarianism seems to me to be the best name for that ideology.

While libertarianism is liked to traditional republican and conservative values, it is something separate and something far stronger.

We should eish that the stranglehold of the 2 party system be demolished, so that other parties and independents can play a significant role in political debate.

While expedience may lead us into the 2 party system in the short term, in should not allow us to sacrifice ideals, for it is ideas which will carry on, and ideas need a brand to carry them. There is no better brand than libertarianism at this time. We should not forfeit it.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[LibertyEagle]

We should avoid compromise!

Whateer Ron Paul can achieve is just a start. He cannot return us to liberty even as president, though he might take a few chucks out of the state.

The best hope is that he is increasingly successful at promoting an ideology, and an ideology needs a name. Libertarianism seems to me to be the best name for that ideology.

While libertarianism is liked to traditional republican and conservative values, it is something separate and something far stronger.

We should eish that the stranglehold of the 2 party system be demolished, so that other parties and independents can play a significant role in political debate.

While expedience may lead us into the 2 party system in the short term, in should not allow us to sacrifice ideals, for it is ideas which will carry on, and ideas need a brand to carry them. There is no better brand than libertarianism at this time. We should not forfeit it.

Yup, more defending of the Libertarian Party. :(

Does this remind anyone else of the Truther threads?

[JMann]

We are trying to get the nomination of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. I don't care how much anyone loves the Libertarian Party. That is not the nomination we are seeking right now.


Maybe because it has been around the 3rd longest. It is full of completely incompetent radicals that have failed to see the benefits of moderation. Just like the Republican and Democratic parties are controlled by the extremist, the LP is controlled by lunatics. They run people that won't even put on a tie for their campaign pictures and that look like child molesters. They don't even nominate their candidate for president until the people have already picked who they support.

The first step the LP could do to improve their standing is nominate their prez candidate at a summer convention the year prior to the election year. Wouldn't it make since for the LP candidate to already be out there campaigning.

[iamso910]

mdh, this thread reminds me of the 911 truther threads. People get all into sticking up for their own little perceived group, instead of staying focused on how to get Dr. Paul elected. That's what we're here for, isn't it?
That's because you are a cowering popularist.

[LibertyEagle]

That's because you are a cowering popularist.

How so?

[Craig_R]

the Libertarian party was formed from REPUBLICANS that were libertarian minded and didnt much like the direction the party was going in. The Constitution party was formed from Libertarians who didnt like the lack of "god" in the Libertarian party. when boiled down Both of these parties are what was the base of the Republican party.

that being said, Promote Paul in any manner you think will be effective, if you're talking to neoconservatives by all means, dumb it down for them. If you're talking to the merely uneducated perhaps you should teach them a thing or two about the meaning of the word libertarian (small l)

libertarian used to mean Conservative. explaining that the word conservative has morphed into something horrible and unamerican may help with some.

I for one, think we should take conservative back! make it mean once again what it has in the past- libertarian, constitutionalist, even republican.

we can once again change the direction of this party, back to what it used to be. Its going to take the "old" base coming back and some new blood changing current attitudes. We're on the right track, we can run these NeoCons out of the party. It just takes being informed and voting, engaging the misguided "followers" who have no idea is also a good idea.

[quickmike]

I dont see the Libertarian thing as a negative. I think he is a Republican with very Libertarian leanings. Just out of respect for Ron I think its best to refer to him as a repubican since thats the party hes running under. If he wanted to be called a Libertarian, he would have run as one. I think we should all respect that and do what he thinks is best for his chances. Libertarians are pretty much very intellegent people who have the sense and history of Ron Paul to know hes not a run of the mill repubican and understand how his views fit with theirs. What hes trying to do is bring back the republicans to their libertarian roots, so to call him a libertarian is not really winning over any new libertarians, all it does is possibly turn off some republicans who havent thought it all out yet and are undecided. Ron is trying to win those people over with his common sense.


I think we should all support and understand that.

[Sakimoto]

Yup, more defending of the Libertarian Party. :(

Does this remind anyone else of the Truther threads?

I think he mentioned libertarianism, which is the philosophy, right? He talks about the current modes of thinking as they exist in the 2 party system we have today. My personal thought is to endorse the philosophy, and educate people to the concepts of liberty... not the LP or any other party. But we can only break the 2 party stranglehold if we get these concepts into the public consciousness. That's why I'm not in favor of shunning the term libertarian, as long as it is used in the philosophical sense.

[Kregener]

This thread is full of ignorance and BS.

Case in point.

[undergroundrr]

Yes, and we should stop using "American" too since it elicits worldwide hatred due to belligerence and disrespect of civil liberties. :D


This thread is full of ignorance and BS.

Paleoconservative.
Classical liberal.
Libertarian.

I'm all of these things; as is Dr. Paul.

Correct! Dr. Paul's strength is that his message cuts across so many divisive lines in the electorate. How nice it is to find common ground between conservatives, liberals and libertarians. Let's be inclusive, not exclusive.

[Sematary]

As a recent convert from NeoConsevitism - I can tell you that when ever the MSM media mentions Libertarism - it is meant to be a put down. We hurt ourselves buy mentioning it so much

NOW - I totaly respect libertarians

BUT - The majority of American have a tainted view of Libertarian or Liberty type descriptions like:

Crazy, Not mainstream, Idealistic to the point of ridiculous, radical, Isolationist, Fringe, Like the Democrats, Anarchists, and other neg. vibes

Recently, I've noticed that when you say "Republican" alot of people cringe, but as soon as you say "he used to be a Libertarian" they nod their head approvingly. Just my personal observation. I think that means that at THIS point in time, people will listen if they understand the guy isn't like the other "Republicans".

[LibertyEagle]

Recently, I've noticed that when you say "Republican" alot of people cringe, but as soon as you say "he used to be a Libertarian" they nod their head approvingly. Just my personal observation. I think that means that at THIS point in time, people will listen if they understand the guy isn't like the other "Republicans".

Like most things, it depends on to whom you are talking. If you're talking to other Republicans, they tend to want to know he IS a Republican.

[quickmike]

Recently, I've noticed that when you say "Republican" alot of people cringe, but as soon as you say "he used to be a Libertarian" they nod their head approvingly. Just my personal observation. I think that means that at THIS point in time, people will listen if they understand the guy isn't like the other "Republicans".

I think if you say "he used to be a libertarian" it sounds like hes a flip flopper. Maybe its better to say "hes running as a republican but has very libertarian leanings"

Not trying to split hairs here, but when I hear someone say "this guy is x and used to be y" I always think hes just an opportunist. Kinda like Lieberman

[iamso910]

Yup, more defending of the Libertarian Party. :(

Does this remind anyone else of the Truther threads?

Libertyeagle,

I have spent 15 years studying libertarianism and economics....have read many tens of thousands of pages and listened and watched thousands of hours of discourse on related subjects.

On the truth movement, I have read widely, and heard the varying opinions and insights from a broad group who come to various conclusions and seek disparate answers to many important questions. They are not all of one thought and should not be dismissed.

It seems to me, you are just on the bandwagon for a quick fix. Seeking political correctness and mainstream acceptance where ever possible. But those most passionate about this campaign, and those who will continue for years to come, to strive for success and for righteous representatives, are and have often long been passionately driven by ideologies.

Some of us hold in our hearts the lessons of Mises and Rothbard as exemplars of non-compromise. And I am convinced, that it is within this movement, which identifies itself with libertarianism, that the foundation and the intellectual boost that is developing, which has gotten Ron Paul as far as he as gotten so far, is the main moving force behind this campaign.

IMHO, anyone who is not deeply familiar with the economic underpinnings, which form the basis of Ron Paul's own ideology, cannot be relied upon, in the long term, to be effective supporters of liberty.

Ron Paul himself, refers to LRC.com as his favorite website and is closely associated with libertarianism and the Misesean economics tradition. So to try to dissassociate the Ron Paul movement from libertarianism is ludicrous.

While libertarianism is not likely to be the most successful brand in marketing the RP revolution at this time, it certainly should not be abandoned.

[constituent]

mdh, this thread reminds me of the 911 truther threads. People get all into sticking up for their own little perceived group, instead of staying focused on how to get Dr. Paul elected. That's what we're here for, isn't it?

This reminds me of the 9/11 truther threads as well. A non-libertarian started a thread about not using the word libertarian and someone came along and started damning everyone for defending their position against what they perceive as a personal afront.

[mdh]

This reminds me of the 9/11 truther threads as well. A non-libertarian started a thread about not using the word libertarian and someone came along and started damning everyone for defending their position against what they perceive as a personal afront.

Heheh...

There are plenty of folks who do believe the controlled demolition stuff, and plenty who don't. Maybe LE is implying that the existence of the Libertarian Party is a hotly contentious issue, as well? Hmmmm.

Well, Dr. Paul *does* in this case seem to believe it exists, after all, he is a life member. That's a simple fact that all of the people here hating on the LP seem to neglect.

[iamso910]

How so?
It seems to me you are overly fearful of divergent opinions.

I don't doubt your passion or good intention, I just think you panic and compromise too readily.

Sorry if I appear to attack you, but I am also passionate about certain ideas.

[jasonhlasvegas]

I'm sick and tired of all the labels. The Neocons with the help of Faux News have co-opted so many English words pertaining to politics that nothing makes any sense, and no one believes anything anymore.

[Sematary]

Like most things, it depends on to whom you are talking. If you're talking to other Republicans, they tend to want to know he IS a Republican.

If I get that nauseated look from them I know it is time to bring out the Libertarian card. :D

[nullvalu]

Isn't paleo-conservativism pretty close to libertarianism? Was the LP formed out of opposition to the emersion of neo-conservatism, or just from the ideas of objectivism and some kind of Ayn Rand "cult"? ;) Not meaning to incite, just curious on your opinions..

[mdh]

Isn't paleo-conservativism pretty close to libertarianism? Was the LP formed out of opposition to the emersion of neo-conservatism, or just from the ideas of objectivism and some kind of Ayn Rand "cult"? ;) Not meaning to incite, just curious on your opinions..

A little history lesson...
First, we were liberals. Then the socialists co-opted the word. People who still want to be called liberals, but don't like socialism, often use "classical liberal".
Then we were conservatives, but the theocrats and interventionists came along. People who aren't interventionist theocrats but like to be called conservatives, often use "paleoconservative".
Nowadays, we're libertarians.

They all have the same meaning.

[American]

The problem with libertarians is they can rarely agree on anything which means they never really get very far. Shame too, I like the libertarian idea, I look forward when they can settle little personal idea disputes, unify and get elected.

Ron Paul isnt a purest libertarian anymore, or havent you heard?

[iamso910]

Isn't paleo-conservativism pretty close to libertarianism? Was the LP formed out of opposition to the emersion of neo-conservatism, or just from the ideas of objectivism and some kind of Ayn Rand "cult"? ;) Not meaning to incite, just curious on your opinions..
Some refer to Murray Rothbard as the founder of modern libertarianism.

This article give a good account of its early development:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard77.html

Here is Wikipedia on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

It's also true that some libertarians identify with the term paleoconservative. But this term does not identify so much with an economic foundation which is more prominant in the Rothbardian strain of modern libertarianism.

[LibertyOfOne]

The problem with libertarians is they can rarely agree on anything which means they never really get very far. Shame too, I like the libertarian idea, I look forward when they can settle little personal idea disputes, unify and get elected.

Ron Paul isnt a purest libertarian anymore, or havent you heard?

That is because they are free thinkers and don't conform to herd mentality.

[mdh]

The problem with libertarians is they can rarely agree on anything which means they never really get very far. Shame too, I like the libertarian idea, I look forward when they can settle little personal idea disputes, unify and get elected.

Ron Paul isnt a purest libertarian anymore, or havent you heard?

I'm confused. First you claim that libertarians can't agree on anything, then you use the term "purist libertarian". If libertarians can't agree, then how can there be such a thing? :p

[American]

That is because they are free thinkers and don't conform to herd mentality.

I think thats awesome, seriously, when one single vote works in accomplishing anything these days you let me know, k?

[American]

I'm confused. First you claim that libertarians can't agree on anything, then you use the term "purist libertarian". If libertarians can't agree, then how can there be such a thing? :p

+1

agreed, how can there be?

[mdh]

+1

agreed, how can there be?

There isn't; but I don't see how or why that matters. There's no such thing as a purist liberal or a purist conservative or a purist whatever-else, either... Each individual has their own ideas. The notion that libertarianism must have some perfect plan that answers every question before it can be considered a competent ideology is just silly. No ideology has that, no ideology is perfect, and every person who considers themself an adherent to a given ideology likely diverges from their peers at least some of the time.

[quickmike]

The problem with the libertarian party is the fact that they are trying to operate in a rigged game. They will never get the exposure or the chance to debate or MSM coverage necessary to win a national election with the rules set up the way they are. It sucks, but thats the reality. What they need to do is get themselves into the republican party and work on changing it back to what it used to be, and then some.

Its like trying to play chess with someone that says "ok, well play, but the rules are that I get to make up the rules as I go along" How the f--k are you going to fight that?

Ron is taking the smart path by trying to change things from the inside.

[Robert Johnson]

The problem with the libertarian party is the fact that they are trying to operate in a rigged game.

Exactly. The minor parties would really do well to take Duverger's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law) seriously, and concentrate on changing the state voting systems (http://rangevoting.org/) while doing education and perhaps endorsement rather than running candidates in these major plurality races against demopublicans.


I never liked the term libertarian anyway. Such an awkwardly constructed word. And intuitively to many, I bet it sounds like it belongs to a creepy and lonely scene.

I'd rather use pro-freedom, pro-liberty, or of/for liberty, as in "a friend of liberty."

[Exiled_LFOD]

I think I found the correctly named thread to bump with this new video that hit DP today....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GewLKQU7XSs

It was a tough call though because there are so many really old juicy ones to choose from.

[dancjm]

The majority of American have a tainted view of Libertarian or Liberty

Yes, lets not mention Liberty, negative connotations. Should we avoid mentioning Ron Paul too?

Have you learned nothing?

You stand and defend what you believe in, even at the risk of ridicule or harm. To do anything else is to betray what you believe in, and to surrender it unto its enemies.

[Kluge]

Yes, lets not mention Liberty, negative connotations. Should we avoid mentioning Ron Paul too?

Have you learned nothing?

You stand and defend what you believe in, even at the risk of ridicule or harm. To do anything else is to betray what you believe in, and to surrender it unto its enemies.

Don't sweat it. Ghemmy is a tardo who got the boot when it became obvious that he was a phony trying to capitalize on this movement and paranoia.

And no, he learned nothing.

ETA: This is a thread from 2007.

[presence]

http://silverunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Libertarian.jpg

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/what-people-think-libertarians-do.jpg

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/libertarian.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431255_10150662557695358_653265357_11621324_172443 0498_n.jpghttp://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i52/5/2/27/fbz_136fcd3039b794fb44dcdb1d24bd88d5.jpg

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i50/5/3/30/frabz-Libertarian-What-Society-Thinks-I-Do-What-Democrats-Think-I-Do-W-c656dc.jpg

[LibertyEagle]

The problem with the libertarian party is the fact that they are trying to operate in a rigged game. They will never get the exposure or the chance to debate or MSM coverage necessary to win a national election with the rules set up the way they are. It sucks, but thats the reality. What they need to do is get themselves into the republican party and work on changing it back to what it used to be, and then some.

Its like trying to play chess with someone that says "ok, well play, but the rules are that I get to make up the rules as I go along" How the f--k are you going to fight that?

Ron is taking the smart path by trying to change things from the inside.

Ah, QuickMike, he was a great forum member and strong activist. I guess he's out there doing stuff on the ground.

[Exiled_LFOD]

http://i47.tinypic.com/34pcq2p.png

[NoOneButPaul]

I just prefer Ron Paul Republicans...

I have had hardcore libertarians tell me Ron's not actually a libertarian, although they were telling me this after I tried to convince them that their efforts were better served in the GOP trying to help the libertarian wing so maybe they were just being pissy.

I do wish we'd come up with a good name... Ron Paul Republican has a lot of negative connotations towards older people who hate him (that's the majority of the voting block), some Liberty Republicans are far from being Libertarians, and calling ourselves Libertarian makes it seem like we truly aren't republicans (which is what we keep hearing from the base) so we really don't have anything great to call ourselves at the moment...

As time goes on and the old folks die off I think Ron Paul Republicans is our best option, but in the short term I dunno...

We do need SOMETHING though just to disassociate ourselves with the Karl Rove-NeoConservative wing that currently controls the party. It's amazing some of the dirty looks I get around here just for supporting a Republican while living in Chicago... the softies think were one in the same as the ass hole whack jobs that currently control the party.

[Dogsoldier]

Ron Paul upholds the constitution so that makes him a libertarian.Most people identify as libertarian they just don't realize it.My father and most of my family thought they were democrats all their lives untill I showed them that they were actually libertarians.My whole life I listened to my family talk politics ,what they believed in and so on.Then 1 day I started paying attention as to what democrats and republicans believe in and the differences are and then I woke up and I woke my family up too.Turns out the Reps and Dems are on the same team going in the same direction in different ways.That neither care about the constitution at all.Most of the "bad" things the msm say about libertarians is BS.Thats why libertarians get a bad rap.

So when someone has anything bad to say about libertarians I simply set them straight.Show them the libertarian platform.Show them the constitution too.

Most everyone is a libertarian they just don't know it.Everybody wants life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness,the bill of rights.

As of right now the Reps or Dems will be very lucky to ever get a vote from me ever again because I hold them up to the Paul standard.The constitutional standard.