Chavez Removes Presidential Term Limits: Dictatorship Forming

[jclay2]

Well, it looks like Venezuela is rapidly deteriorating into a socialist dictatorship. Next time additional parties probably won't be able to run against him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_referendum_28

CARACAS, Venezuela – President Hugo Chavez says a referendum victory that removed limits on his re-election is a mandate to intensify his socialist agenda for decades to come. Opponents warn of an impending dictatorship.

Both sides had called the outcome of Sunday's vote key to the future of this South American country, split down the middle between those who worship the president for redistributing Venezuela's oil riches and those who see him as a power-hungry autocrat.

"Those who voted "yes" today voted for socialism, for revolution," Chavez thundered to thousands of ecstatic supporters jamming the streets around the presidential palace. Fireworks lit up the Caracas skyline, and one man walked though the crowd carrying a painting of Chavez that read: "Forever."

Josefa Dugarte stared at the crowd from the stoop of her apartment building with look of dismay.

"These people don't realize what they have done," she muttered.

With 94 percent of the vote counted, official results showed the amendment passing 54 percent to 46 percent, an irreversible trend, and opposition leaders accepted the results. Tibisay Lucena, president of National Electoral Council, said turnout was 67 percent.

The constitutional overhaul allows all public officials to run for re-election as many times as they want, removing barriers to a Chavez candidacy in the next presidential elections in 2012 and beyond.

"In 2012 there will be presidential elections, and unless God decides otherwise, unless the people decide otherwise, this soldier is already a candidate," Chavez said to applause. First elected in 1998, he has said he might stay in power until 2049, when he'll be 95.

But analysts said Chavez shouldn't count on getting re-elected just yet.

"Chavez's intention is clear: He aspires to be president for life," said Michael Shifter of the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington. "He is convinced he embodies the popular will and is indispensable to the country's progress. But his capacity to pull this off is far from assured."

He said the global financial crisis and the plunging price of oil, which accounts for 94 percent of Venezuela's exports and nearly half its federal budget, will limit Chavez's ability to maintain the level of public spending that has fueled his popularity.

"The greatest challenge the government now faces is governing in the face of crisis and not falling into triumphalism," said Miguel Tinker Salas, a professor at Pomona College in Claremont, California.

At their campaign headquarters, Chavez opponents hugged one another, and some cried. They said the results were skewed by Chavez's broad use of state resources to get out the vote, through a battery of state-run news media, pressure on 2 million public employees and frequent presidential speeches which all television stations were required to air.

With the courts, the legislature and the election council all under his influence, and now with no limits on his re-election, officials say Chavez is virtually unstoppable.

"Effectively this will become a dictatorship," opposition leader Omar Barboza told The Associated Press. "It's control of all the powers, lack of separation of powers, unscrupulous use of state resources, persecution of adversaries."

[pcosmar]

I really don't care for his socialist leanings but I like the guy otherwise.

He also has a bunch of oil that he will sell, it would be better to be friends and get a good price.
There is not really much difference from his socialism and what we have in Washington.

[angelatc]

He is going to have a tough time if oil prices do not rebound.

[Agent CSL]

I don't equate Chavez to any merciless dictator and he never struck me as a "bad" person. I don't agree with his programs, but he never seemed to have a bad intention. And to me, this is sort of surprising.

[DirtMcGirt]

We tried to overthrow him once already, maybe the CIA will try again...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=venezuela&hl=En&emb=0&aq=f#

[pcosmar]

Well, it looks like Venezuela is rapidly deteriorating into a socialist dictatorship. Next time additional parties probably won't be able to run against him.

"

As opposed to what.
A US controlled Fascist Dictatorship?
As I remember he was voted in by the will of the people. And despite Coup and assassination attempts by our CIA he has remained popular with his people.

Of course he is Vilified here and by our controlled press.

[zach]

That article sounded like a potential future one for the US.:eek:

[constituent]

He is going to have a tough time if oil prices do not rebound.

lol, exactly.

i heard about this on the radio yesterday and thought to myself, $10/barrel oil, here we come!

unfortunately, i have mixed feelings about all that. sometimes i wish the world were black and white.

[constituent]

I don't equate Chavez to any merciless dictator and he never struck me as a "bad" person. I don't agree with his programs, but he never seemed to have a bad intention. And to me, this is sort of surprising.

His sole intention: Hugo Chavez for Hugo Chavez' sake.

[constituent]

We tried to overthrow him once already, maybe the CIA will try again...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=venezuela&hl=En&emb=0&aq=f#

i know that this can sometimes be difficult, but (believe it or not) Chavez is a tool of the Globalist intelligence apparatus, not an enemy.

[constituent]

And despite Coup and assassination attempts by our CIA he has remained popular with his people.


despite?



...or perhaps, due to?

[ihsv]

Well, Chavez did buck the bankers. He paid off his national debt to the IMF/World Bank and is no longer under the monetary thumb of the power brokers. I think that's the main reason why "we" hate him, courtesy of the NY times et al.

[Carole]

I wonder if this is preferable to an American-backed Fascist dictatorship.

Does anyone recall how our covert ops put Pinochet in power and how ruthless he was?

[pcosmar]

I wonder if this is preferable to an American-backed Fascist dictatorship.

Does anyone recall how our covert ops put Pinochet in power and how ruthless he was?

I am quite sure that people in that area of the world "recall" several US backed Regimes .
I am also sure that they are not fond memories.

[Xenophage]

WTF is with this dictator love fest? Since when did people on RPF think anybody who sought power and socialist reform was a "good dude?"

[humanic]

We tried to overthrow him once already, maybe the CIA will try again...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=venezuela&hl=En&emb=0&aq=f#

Here's another video about the attempted coup (in 2002 I believe):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144&ei=dLWZSeTCHYiGqwL0ysyKCA&q=revolution+televised&hl=En

[pcosmar]

WTF is with this dictator love fest? Since when did people on RPF think anybody who sought power and socialist reform was a "good dude?"

Not a "good Dude" and I stated that I don't care for his socialism. But then I don't care much for the whole socialist crowd that was just elected in this country.
I just don't care for our Govt. interfering and attacking a democratically elected leader of another country.
Especially when that country has resources that would be welcomed commerce.

Kinda shootin' ourselves in the foot.

[TonySutton]

The people of Venezuela can vote away their freedom if that is their desire. I suspect Chavez will tighten his grip which may lead to internal unrest. My hope is that it is not started by the CIA. We need to learn to let people make their own choices.

[Xenophage]

Not a "good Dude" and I stated that I don't care for his socialism. But then I don't care much for the whole socialist crowd that was just elected in this country.
I just don't care for our Govt. interfering and attacking a democratically elected leader of another country.
Especially when that country has resources that would be welcomed commerce.

Kinda shootin' ourselves in the foot.

Well, yeah, dicking around in foreign politics is the height of stupidity.

[christagious]

As opposed to what.
A US controlled Fascist Dictatorship?
As I remember he was voted in by the will of the people. And despite Coup and assassination attempts by our CIA he has remained popular with his people.

Of course he is Vilified here and by our controlled press.

You got that right

[christagious]

I wonder if this is preferable to an American-backed Fascist dictatorship.

Does anyone recall how our covert ops put Pinochet in power and how ruthless he was?

Yes I do. Well, I wasn't around during that but I've read about a lot of the Allende Pinochet situation. I love how we support some dictators and bash others.

[christagious]

Well, yeah, dicking around in foreign politics is the height of stupidity.

:rolleyes:

[Agent CSL]

WTF is with this dictator love fest? Since when did people on RPF think anybody who sought power and socialist reform was a "good dude?"

"An enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[jclay2]

Yeah, Foreign intervention is definitely a dumb road to go down. In my op, I was just trying to comment on what I thought of the situation. This time he legitimately wins the option for more terms, but what about the next time when it looks like the opposition has him by a slight margin to oust him out of power? This time its 54 46, but the next time it could be 49 51. One can only wonder what resources of the government or declarations this guy will make when his end to power is coming near. Especially with the polarizing class warfare rhetoric of revolution this guy is using, I wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela erupts in violence in the next couple years.

[ladyliberty3]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hj111-5

[pcosmar]

Yeah, Foreign intervention is definitely a dumb road to go down. In my op, I was just trying to comment on what I thought of the situation. This time he legitimately wins the option for more terms, but what about the next time when it looks like the opposition has him by a slight margin to oust him out of power? This time its 54 46, but the next time it could be 49 51. One can only wonder what resources of the government or declarations this guy will make when his end to power is coming near. Especially with the polarizing class warfare rhetoric of revolution this guy is using, I wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela erupts in violence in the next couple years.

I wonder how much "opposition" there would be if the CIA was not there manufacturing it.
It is long past time to end our export of terrorism.
It is time to close the School of the Americas.

[HOLLYWOOD]

lol, exactly.

i heard about this on the radio yesterday and thought to myself, $10/barrel oil, here we come!

unfortunately, i have mixed feelings about all that. sometimes i wish the world were black and white.

Well this is the plan... but as we have seen the Mega Integrated Oil companies...

Hmm, "If you lose money on the crude price where can we make it up?" Oh, on the refining process, distributions, and retail sales.

Well how do we go about that? Well BP and Valero let's shutdown four (4 last month's announcement) refineries, and reduce refining processing to 80%. Stocks/Reserves will decrease, Speculators will hedge, our Margins will skyrocket, and we get to fleece the people another way." $$$

It's all fixed and schemed by Corporatism.

The people always pay...

Yet our glorious Imperial Empire of a government takes the cereal companies to court for anti-trust law breaking and fines them $10's of millions... which the people will pay down the road with increases in prices.

Government gets their money one way or another. Uncle Sugar, "You're either with U.S. or against U.S." better know as "Pay U.S. NOW, or Pay U.S. later!"


I heard Hugo Chavez sent discounted Crude to the northeast US so the poorer classes could afford heat, only to have the refiners jack the price of heating oil.

[Zolah]

A Chavez is for life, not just for Christmas..

[s35wf]

I know america (especially Bush admin) Hates Chavez; but I gotta tell ya; i work in the tourist industry. Talk to ALOT of Venezulians; everyone I speak to about politics and Chavez LOVE the Man! Perhaps things will change in the future because as we all know "absolute power corrupts absolutely" but I have yet to speak to anyone from venezula who does not like their Pres. ..... they ALL Love and adore the man; from EVERY one ive spoken too.

[Monolithic]

ah yes, he allowed the people to democratically remove term limits so he can be democratically elected again in the future, what a dictator!

[Zippyjuan]

Chavez tried to get a term limit exemption for just himself previously and that was defeated. The only reason this one passed is that it covers all elected officials. And from what it sounds like- it only barely passed. If people here compared what his government does and what our government does, his is much more centrally controlled, freedom of speach restricted, businesses tightly controlled- they would not be so supportive of Chavez. If Chavez is indeed good, then the US must be the most desired way to run things. He is destroying their source of money- the oil industry- by chasing off foreign companies who made investments into new equipment and explored for new sources of oil via nationalization- and so the infrastructure is declining and along with lower oil prices, their production is falling. When Venezuela signed an agreement to provide oil to (sorry, can't think of the country right now) they had to buy oil from Russia to fulfill the contract. He makes promises he does not keep and blames administrators for his own failures- they are regularly fired and replaced.

Rising government spending (up 32 % this year), spiraling inflation. Potential currency devaluation. Shortages of goods. http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1629987720090216

CARACAS, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's victory in a referendum that ended limits on his term in office will be overshadowed by a tough year of painful austerity measures in the the OPEC nation.

As oil prices collapse under the global financial crisis and cripple Venezuela's finances, the leftist leader faces a slowing economy, galloping inflation and the need to cut government spending on social programs that form the backbone of his self-styled revolution.

The difficult panorama may reduce the influence of the most outspoken critic of the United States in Latin America even strengthening his grip on power in Sunday referendum that lets him run for a new six-year term in 2012 and beyond.

"No matter how I look at it, I can't see much that is positive for the future," said Alvise Marino, an analyst with IDEAglobal in New York. "The further out we go, the more we see the bad effects of the economic downturn."

A drop in oil prices of more than $100 per barrel since last year spells the end of five years of booming growth, though few Venezuelan have felt the effects yet, with shopping malls still full and traffic unrelenting in the capital of Caracas.

Economists say the necessary policies are precisely the ones Chavez has avoided for years: spending cuts, a devaluation and tighter fiscal policy to combat the highest inflation rate on the continent that closed 2009 at 31 percent.

Though he may have an easier time enacting cuts after Sunday's vote, which he won by 54.4 to 45.6 percent, Chavez frequently passes such policies off as "neoliberal" capitalism contrary to his socialist vision.

"The results of the referendum do nothing to change the economic tsunami the country is going to face this year," said one local financial analyst, who asked not to be identified.

[LibForestPaul]

WTF is with this dictator love fest? Since when did people on RPF think anybody who sought power and socialist reform was a "good dude?"

South America, strong man, old news. Been that way for 100 years, be that way for 100 more. And? Ok dude, cares about his people more than most. So, what South libertarian democratic county SHOULD Venezuela emulate. Brazil? Mexico? Columbia?

[damania]

Bush and Cheney are jealous.

[Xenophage]

South America, strong man, old news. Been that way for 100 years, be that way for 100 more. And? Ok dude, cares about his people more than most. So, what South libertarian democratic county SHOULD Venezuela emulate. Brazil? Mexico? Columbia?

South Americans don't deserve freedom?

I see how it is.

[Kraig]

Some of you are freaking out or pointing the finger at this evil dictator meanwhile we have elected officials on CSPAN choosing how they are going to spend trillions of OUR dollars in ways that I think we all can agree WILL NOT benefit us.

So before you get caught up in democracy vs. dictatorship vs. whatever else, remember that tyranny is still tyranny and your money is still being looted under a failed (and they always do) DEMOCRACY.

[Xenophage]

Some of you are freaking out or pointing the finger at this evil dictator meanwhile we have elected officials on CSPAN choosing how they are going to spend trillions of OUR dollars in ways that I think we all can agree WILL NOT benefit us.

So before you get caught up in democracy vs. dictatorship vs. whatever else, remember that tyranny is still tyranny and your money is still being looted under a failed (and they always do) DEMOCRACY.

Chavez was democratically elected. You think I'm a supporter of Democracy? HA!

No, personally I prefer dictatorship, or monarchy, or anything - as long as the dictator or monarch has no power, and the people have no power, and nobody has any power.

[LibertyEagle]

i know that this can sometimes be difficult, but (believe it or not) Chavez is a tool of the Globalist intelligence apparatus, not an enemy.

Interesting. Would you elaborate please?

[constituent]

Interesting. Would you elaborate please?

(no fan of wiki, but...) your journey begins here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Hugo_Chávez), I'm quite certain you will know which rabbit holes to follow.

...looking forward to your thoughts, we'll go from there.

[qh4dotcom]

He is going to have a tough time if oil prices do not rebound.

According to Peter Schiff, oil will be back over $100 this year.

[qh4dotcom]

Chavez was one of the few world leaders who refused to kiss Bush's ass...not sure if this will be stay the same with Obama