Soviet Propaganda lectures across USA

[diggronpaul]

I was recently made aware of a lecture series by Dmitry Orlov that simply floored me.

Lecture: Social Collapse Best Practices
http://www.longnow.org/


Mr. Orlov has authored the book, Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects (http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Collapse-Example-American-Prospects/dp/0865716064) (2008). I located a copy of his lecture presentation, which is interesting while illogical:
http://madconomist.com/what-if-us-collapses-soviet-collapse-lessons-every-american-needs-to-know


I never thought I would live to see the day that a former Soviet citizen freely lectures to sold-out audiences regarding an eminent collapse of the USA. I can only imagine that it would be a communists greatest dream to witness our collapse. The deviousness of these actors, acting under the direction of their British elite string pullers, knows no bounds.

[dannno]

I never thought I would live to see the day that a former Soviet citizen freely lectures to sold-out audiences regarding an eminent collapse of the USA.

I'd be totally cool with it if he was promoting free markets.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8cC21jB9EE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nl1oh5DB1I


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBR6dDRmdbU

[diggronpaul]

Just look at this guy's slides, here he tries to claim that the USA and USSR are/were very similar...

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan3.png

and here that our economy can simply crash in a cascading manner:

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan6.png

and now for his wopper conclusion....

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan19.png

and here is this Soviet/Russian citizen's advice to Americans...

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan27.png

The Cold War lives on, it's just that the Russians/Communists are now simply working on us from the inside, telling individual citizens to abandon their own country... and the worst part of it is that American are listening to them.

[lucius]

thanks

[Spike]

his points are generally right..America is gonna collapse, stop denying it and prepare, mentally first, then physically.

[idiom]

He is right. The Soviet people were used to scrabbling to survive.

Cushy American suburbia is screwed.

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan9.png

And he is a peak Oiler to boot.

[InterestedParticipant]

He is right. The Soviet people were used to scrabbling to survive.

Cushy American suburbia is screwed.

And he is a peak Oiler to boot.
OMFG, and these are the responses from a supposed libertarian Ron Paul group? You buy-in to his meme of scarcity, American guilt and absolute destiny? Shameful and disgusting, that's all one can call it! What an embarrassment. This Russian simply does not put forth a logical argument to support his contentions, it's all Hegelian irrationality.

There are many inaccuracies in the symmetries that Orlov cites between the Soviet Communist system and the US Republican system, a few I will call out here....


USD is world's reserve currency and is directly linked to Oil, which means the USA has an infinite demand for its currency
the American people are sovereign, in other words, they are Free and do not have to rely upon a central politburo for economic planning in order to generate wealth.
USA & Soviets were never evenly matched, that was propaganda to perpetrate the Cold War
The USA is the largest economy in the world, being 3-times the size of our nearest competitor: Japan ($4.4T), with China being less than just three US states combined – Texas, New York, & California ($4.05 Trillion)


For those that wish to gain a better understanding of the forces in the world today, may I suggest the following 2-works:

Trapped, by Sir James Goldsmith, which details how the GATT Treaty was passed in order to send US Industry to Asia.
Congress's Reece Committee report, specifically the statements made by Norman Dodd, who exposed the long term plan to merge the US system with the Soviet system.


Those here who acquiesce to these utterly baseless claims are unwittingly
traveling toward the irrational logic structure of Hegel, as articulated below...

"If it is remarkable when a nation has become indifferent to its constitutional theory,

to its national sentiments, its ethical customs and virtues, it is certainly no

less remarkable when a nation loses its metaphysics, when the

spirit which contemplates its own pure essence is no longer a present

reality in the life of the nation."


"Once the spirit has reconstituted itself, all attempts to preserve an earlier culture are utterly in vain."


- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Your ancestors died at the end of a gun and bayonet for this freedom you've enjoyed,
and you let a communist tell you that it is all going into a sinkhole with nothing other
than childish acceptance? Ugh!

[dr. hfn]

this guy seems to be generally right

[diggronpaul]

this guy seems to be generally right
Okay, then tell me how the USA goes from where it is now to where he predicts it will be? Show me the logic of how this nation, with all of its resources, travels the path from the greatest nation ever to one where people are sleeping in downtown office building office space, as this Russian predicts.

Tell me how this future could occur and show the logical path to it, for Dmitry totally skips that part in his presentation and leaves-out critical differences between the USA and USSR?

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Okay, then tell me how the USA goes from where it is now to where he predicts it will be? Show me the logic of how this nation, with all of its resources, travels the path from the greatest nation ever to one where people are sleeping in downtown office building office space, as this Russian predicts.

Tell me how this future could occur and show the logical path to it, for Dmitry totally skips that part in his presentation and leaves-out critical differences between the USA and USSR?

Honestly, if you need someone to answer such an obvious question for you, you're not paying a whole of attention to anything.

[Malakai]

Just look at this guy's slides, here he tries to claim that the USA and USSR are/were very similar...

[IG]http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan3.png[/IMG]

and here that our economy can simply crash in a cascading manner:

[IG]http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan6.png[/IMG]

and now for his wopper conclusion....

[IG]http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan19.png[/IMG]

and here is this Soviet/Russian citizen's advice to Americans...

[IG]http://www.energybulletin.net/image/uploads/23259/MScan27.png[/IMG]

The Cold War lives on, it's just that the Russians/Communists are now simply working on us from the inside, telling individual citizens to abandon their own country... and the worst part of it is that American are listening to them.

Umm I think that is a ridiculous conclusion. Everything in those slides would be agreed to by most austrian economists.

The fact is that the US economy right now resembles communism more than a free market. NO austrian follower would disagree with that.
And economically socialism always fails in the end.

If saying these things is "Commie Propaganda" then we are all commies mate.

The whole US vs Russia, democracy vs communism cold war was an invention of our governments to accelerate building up their states and militaries. We won, they went bankrupt first. However our turn is coming, barring the return of the free market in america. The US is not and was never intended to be a democracy anyway. A state of true democracy is not freedom it is mob rule, and without strict controls whatever group is the majority or holds the most power will dominate the other classes. Sound familiar?

If Russia is smart they will continue moving toward a free market economy and will do well. Putin is no fool when it comes to economics either, he is versed in austrian theory and has said if the US continues to follow soviet economic policies we will pay the price like they did. This implies he understands that socialism destroyed the russian economy and is not a good policy to pursue in the future. Good for them.

Austrian economics teaches that one country does not need to flourish and be wealthy at the expense of another. Mercantilism and empires have failed over and over throughout history. We do not need to be enemies with our neighbors or the other 'superpowers'. If we all have free markets and free trade, we can all be wealthy and steer our economies any way we like. And I mean we as the people not some central planners.

[Sandra]

As far as digronpaul, check all of the past posts. Almost all deal in accusing anything as propaganda or belittling attempts to use the media to further the campaign of Ron Paul. Also all done with low posting #.

[Malakai]

OMFG, and these are the responses from a supposed libertarian Ron Paul group? You buy-in to his meme of scarcity, American guilt and absolute destiny? Shameful and disgusting, that's all one can call it! What an embarrassment. This Russian simply does not put forth a logical argument to support his contentions, it's all Hegelian irrationality.
..snip
Your ancestors died at the end of a gun and bayonet for this freedom you've enjoyed,
and you let a communist tell you that it is all going into a sinkhole with nothing other
than childish acceptance? Ugh!

Your arguments are not libertarian at all. The dollar will not always be the reserve currency. The world will not continue to fund our deficits forever. These are libertarian views. Your statements are nothing but the US propaganda we have been hearing our whole lives.

I might add this is the Ron Paul forum and RP himself would disagree with everything you and dragon have said here.

[Sandra]

My My, what must you think of Peter Schiff?

[Bodhi]

Okay, then tell me how the USA goes from where it is now to where he predicts it will be? Show me the logic of how this nation, with all of its resources, travels the path from the greatest nation ever to one where people are sleeping in downtown office building office space, as this Russian predicts.

Are you just not paying attention? Where do you think the nation is headed. It does not matter that a Russian is making these predictions, the US is in for some serious trouble ahead. If you don't see that you need to turn of the Fox "News" and start doing some thinking on your own.

[Sandra]

He seems to have a problem that the lesturer is Russian. That's about all.

[Spike]

Okay, then tell me how the USA goes from where it is now to where he predicts it will be? Show me the logic of how this nation, with all of its resources, travels the path from the greatest nation ever to one where people are sleeping in downtown office building office space, as this Russian predicts.

Tell me how this future could occur and show the logical path to it, for Dmitry totally skips that part in his presentation and leaves-out critical differences between the USA and USSR?

You make a good point. America does have tremendous amount of resources, ..wind, sun, land, innovation, tech. But under the current leadership and direction it is heading toward collapse of some kind, but that doesn't mean that positive developments won't emerge and that the country won't rebound. But just look at the country's infrastructure, it's all based on oil. Over half the population has to commute a long way to work, and is relying on the supermarket to get fed. What if Israel and Iran go to war and oil becomes scarce? What then? ...So there will be collapse, although not all the states will undergo the same collapse. However, if America's resources are applied, and spontaneous developments emerge such as growing food locally, working from home, etc, etc..then the collapse won't be as tragic and may in effect be a blessing in disguise.

And it is not just a 'Russian' who is predicting this, and it is not entirely propaganda. Stop being so suspicious of foreigners and Russians. Of course, he can't predict unforeseen developments so the future may not be as bleak as he predicts it would be.

[diggronpaul]

My My, what must you think of Peter Schiff?
While there may be plenty of empty rhetoric and personal attacks in this thread, I fail to see anyone taking-on the challenge of assembling a logical proof to this Russian's thesis.

And please, don't just parrot Peter's inventory of media statements, I've been hearing it for 15 years and there is absolutely nothing he brings to the table that anyone with a basic understanding of macroeconomics was not able to predict decades ago.

Try to think through how a collapse of this magnitude might actually occur. How many failure points would actually have to manifest themselves, and how would they manifest themselves? What impact would all of these failure points have on other country's economies (i.e. what failures would have to occur internationally)?

Just try and think through the vast array of nodes in this complex labyrinth and see if you can actually assemble a series of events that would lead to such a new state in the global economy.

Once you go through this exercise, you will discover that this is nothing but fear mongering. When you finally come to this point in your logic, the next question you will ask is why is this Russian promoting a book, to Americans, about such a violent collapse of the US economy? This final question is the meaningful and thoughtful question.

How can you ever hope to make any real change if you cannot see the false change agents and how they try to manipulate you. Why is it everyone here trusts the word of whatever author happens to be promoting their latest book? Do you not question the purpose of these works, or when the chorus loudly sings the same tune you just fall into line and accept what is given to you?

MODS: I'd appreciate it if you would move this thread to "Economics & Sound Money"

[InterestedParticipant]

Libertarians defending a communist.... wonders never cease.


Umm I think that is a ridiculous conclusion. Everything in those slides would be agreed to by most austrian economists.
Critical differences are left-off these slides (see my comments earlier in this thread), making this presentation highly deceptive and misleading. The differences vastly outweigh any similarities.


If saying these things is "Commie Propaganda" then we are all commies mate.
This is what I'm afraid of, even people aspiring to libertarianism no longer know how to differentiate the US Republican form of government from a Communist one, and therefore are susceptible to this type of propaganda.


The whole US vs Russia, democracy vs communism cold war was an invention of our governments to accelerate building up their states and militaries. We won, they went bankrupt first. However our turn is coming, barring the return of the free market in america.
Well, you're partially correct... building up government expenditures in Intelligence, Science and Military were part of the dialectic. Another part, which is missed by virtually all, was clearly uncovered by Norman Dodd while heading the Congressional Reece Committee investigation in 1954:


"Mr. Dodd, we have asked you to come up here today because we thought that,
possibly, off the record, you would tell us why the Congress is interested in the
activities of foundations such as ourselves.

Mr. Dodd, all of us who have a hand in the making of policies here, have had experience
either with the OSS during the war, or with European economic administration after the war.
We have had experience operating under directives. The directives emanate, and did
emanate, from the White House. Now, we still operate under just such directives. Would you
like to know what the substance of these directives is?

Mr. Dodd, all of us who have a hand in the making of policies here, have had
experience operating under directives, the substance of which is, that we use our
grant-making power so as to alter life in the United States that it can be
comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."

- Alan Gaither, President of the Ford Foundation (http://supremelaw.org/authors/dodd/interview.htm)

[InterestedParticipant]

"Mr. Dodd, all of us who have a hand in the making of policies here, have had

experience operating under directives, the substance of which is, that we use our

grant-making power so as to alter life in the United States that it can be

comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."


- Alan Gaither, President of the Ford Foundation (http://supremelaw.org/authors/dodd/interview.htm)
Bump

[Grandson of Liberty]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be about Obama's press conferences and stimulus campaigning. :cool:

[acptulsa]

Whatever you think of the messenger, certain parts of the message do have merit. We are indeed more dependent on energy--particularly oil--than they ever were--and they had the stuff. This will indeed tell on our ability to recover. Don't know if you're up in the northeast, but little of the country is in any way built to make mass transit viable. And our railroads, though as efficient as any in the world, does little door-to-door as it once did.

[diggronpaul]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be about Obama's press conferences and stimulus campaigning. :cool:
Good observation. Yea, nothing like having a communist as POTUS.


Whatever you think of the messenger, certain parts of the message do have merit. We are indeed more dependent on energy--particularly oil--than they ever were--and they had the stuff. This will indeed tell on our ability to recover. Don't know if you're up in the northeast, but little of the country is in any way built to make mass transit viable. And our railroads, though as efficient as any in the world, does little door-to-door as it once did.
MSM propaganda!

There is no scarcity in energy in the USA.

[idiom]

Russia is still an Oil exporter. Even after their collapse.

America is an Oil importer.

After the dollar is destroyed, a Ron Paul prediciton, how do you plan to pay for Oil?

If every company that fails gets 'nationalised' how long will your 'Republic' last?

[HOLLYWOOD]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be about Obama's press conferences and stimulus campaigning. :cool:

Today was the Socialist Propaganda day in Denver, CO

Tomorrow is the Chromed Communism day in Phoenix, AZ


The Rush to control/communism... Chromed, Polished nice and shiney for the American Sheeple.

[InterestedParticipant]

America is an Oil importer.


America only imports oil to export fiat $USD.

Remove the FED, and the USD as a fiat currency, and the USA will once again pump
its domestic oil, which is plentiful.

[idiom]

America only imports oil to export fiat $USD.

Remove the FED, and the USD as a fiat currency, and the USA will once again pump
its domestic oil, which is plentiful.


Remove the FED, and the USD as a fiat currency,

Oh, I didn't realise how little turbulence that would create.


and the USA will once again pump
its domestic oil,

Okay. thats just funny.

[DAFTEK]

The Obama Youth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC7aSZnAX8&eurl=

[diggronpaul]

America only imports oil to export fiat $USD.

Remove the FED, and the USD as a fiat currency, and the USA will once again pump
its domestic oil, which is plentiful.
Too bad our monetary system disincentivizes domestic oil production. It's about interdependence and money velocity.

[Malakai]

Libertarians defending a communist.... wonders never cease.


Critical differences are left-off these slides (see my comments earlier in this thread), making this presentation highly deceptive and misleading. The differences vastly outweigh any similarities.


This is what I'm afraid of, even people aspiring to libertarianism no longer know how to differentiate the US Republican form of government from a Communist one, and therefore are susceptible to this type of propaganda.
[/I][/B]

I assure you I am confident in my understanding of communism and the republic outlined in the constitution.

I was only commenting on the data in the slides and not any prior stuff.
But from what I see on Russia TV and hear often from Putin, the commies seem to understand the benefits of free markets even if they aren't actually complimented there.
Several leading free market economists (one was just on Lew Rockwells radio show a few months back) come from russia, specifically grew up in communist russia.