about Ron Paul`s message ...

[T34]

I have some questions .

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )

2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?

3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)

4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..



I do like Ron Paul`s foreighn policy ...

but it Seems to me that Ron `s domestic plan , is going back in time ....

even so much back in time ...

almost to the Wild West times ...

if so ... I Would like to have Guns made mendetory ... it should be mendetory for every one to have a gun ...

and not just any gun ... but nothing less of an AK-47 .


PS . Excuse my speling .

[MRoCkEd]

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )
Committing a crime is an act of free-will, but is not free from punishment. We believe that certain behaviors that infringe upon the life, liberty, and property of others such as murder, assault, or theft certainly deserve to be illegal. Other actions, such as using drugs, gambling, etc. should be legal because a person has the right to do what he or she wants with his or her body and money.

2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?
We don't think churches should run all of the hospitals, but if a church wants to run a hospital that is fine. I doubt most would want to cure diseases with prayers only, but if they did, it's up to the patient whether or not they want to pursue that kind of "treatment."

3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ?
No, it is a name for a constitutionally mandated government that serves the purpose of defending its country and preserving the liberty of all individuals without telling them how to live or spend their money.


4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..

It is a consensual transaction between two adults.



but it Seems to me that Ron `s domestic plan , is going back in time ....

even so much back in time ...

almost to the Wild West times ...
Tyranny is thousands of years old. Freedom is young.

if so ... I Would like to have Guns made mendetory ... it should be mendetory for every one to have a gun ...

and not just any gun ... but nothing less of an AK-47 .
All citizens should be able to own a gun, but they should not be forced to own one.

[ClayTrainor]

I have some questions .

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )



Absolutely not

In a Free society, you are allowed to act and prosper however you want so long as you do not infringe upon the inalienable rights of others.

There is still "Rule of Law" according to the constitution, however we don't need nearly as many laws and regulations as we have today.

The constitution and Bill of Rights was set up to protect the rights of each and every individual citizen. Respect the rights of others, and you are no criminal.








3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)


Well the purpose of Limited government is to protect the individual rights and liberties of every citizen, and balance the budge, in my opinion.

We don't need to government to "care" about us, we have each other for that. I'd rather have my doctor telling me which drugs are dangerous to take, than my government.




4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..


Prostitution would be totally acceptable in a Free society.

Look at places like Amsterdam and Las Vegas where it is legal. The girls are not oppressed, they can quit and find another job whenever they want, and they are not allowed to work if they carry disease.

When prostitution is illegal, women are traded around like Currency or drugs. They have pimps, and they are oppressed. They often get killed if they try to quit, or escape the life of crime.

When Prostitution is legal, the business becomes much more fair and safe for everybody.

Same goes for drugs. Both Drugs and Prostitution would be 100% legal in a truly "Free" society.

There is no authority in the constitution to make either of these things illegal.





I do like Ron Paul`s foreighn policy ...



That's because it's based on teh advice of the "Founding Fathers" and the Constitution



but it Seems to me that Ron `s domestic plan , is going back in time ....



His domestic policies are also entirely based on the constitution. Freedom does not change with Age.




I Would like to have Guns made mendetory ... it should be mendetory for every one to have a gun ...

and not just any gun ... but nothing less of an AK-47 .



Guns should not be mandatory, because you should have the freedom to NOT own a gun if you don't want one.

However, yes, anyone who wants to own an AK47 or any other gun, should be allowed to, so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.

[BuddyRey]

I'll take a crack at these!

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )

That depends on how you define "crime." If it's something that, morally, shouldn't be a crime at all (basically, any non-violent, "victimless" crime), then these should really be removed from the purview of government and left up to individuals to decide for themselves. But my freedom extends only as far as my own life, meaning that I am free to do anything I want with my own life, money, property, etc., provided that I do not infringe on anybody else's freedom by attempting to abridge their rights to life, property, etc. In other words, true freedom does not mean the freedom to harm others.

2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?

In a free society, any church hospital that denied the kind of treatment their patients wanted would very quickly begin losing business and, eventually, would fail. If some people choose to be treated by prayer alone, that is their right; but for those who wish to be aided by conventional medicine (or any other type of medicine they may want), there would be a myriad of choices for them. With little to no government regulation, goods and services will no longer have to be offered in a "one size fits all" approach.

3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)

This is a tough question to answer, because one's response would depend largely on whether or not one believed it was really the job of government to care, or whether or not government is even capable of caring. Individuals and charities have the capacity to care, because they actually got into the business of helping people because it made them feel good. When you and I have our money taken from us through taxes, on the other hand, it's not charity at all. Government is robbing from us to give to somebody else, so they're really not being charitable or giving at all. They're not giving wealth they have created, but the stolen wealth of others. People with kind hearts will always be around to care for those who are hurting, but the difference is, these people care enough to devote their own time and money to making the world a better place, rather than stealing from others.

4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..

The key question to ask yourself here is, where is the victim? Is prostitution a violent crime, or is it merely a consensual business transaction? Is it not true that both participants in a prostitution scenario entered into it voluntarily, and both benefited? If there's no victim, the prospect of locking people in cages for it, separating them from their families and destroying their lives, seems like the wrong way to go...at least in my opinion.

Welcome to the forums! Wherever your ideological journey takes you, we're glad you dropped by!

[JaylieWoW]

Ok, I'll bite. I'm not the most knowledgeable here but I think I can answer these questions.


1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )

The question is not as simple as does crime = freedom. The question needs to be what IS crime? The most basic definition to me is that a crime is an act of aggression (physically or some other way) against another person (or entity) that denies that person or entity their own basic freedom (life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness).

Therefore, if you have more laws, you have more criminals. There are many MANY things today that are defined as a "crime" that are missing a key component .... a vicitm. It is what I (and others) refer to as "legislating morality". Take prohibition for example.

So no, committing a crime (as defined above) is NOT freedom, it is the antithesis of freedom. The problem is too many things that are not "criminal" (lacking a victim) are considered a crime because they are considered immoral (prostitution, drugs, etc.)


2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?

I'm not sure I understand this question. Churches DO run hospitals (if to a limited extent) and historically I guess you could say it is somewhat BECAUSE of churches hospitals evolved. There aren't very many religions where medical treatment (medicine or any other "human" intervention) is considered immoral. Quite the contrary is true. In a truly free society, however, individuals would be free to choose how they treat an illness without the potential for the state stepping in to order (force) a treatment on someone who disagrees religiously or morally.


3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)

I don't know, is "big government" another name for a government that is all caring? This is actually a broad question and unless you take the time to research various so-called "caring" government programs, you won't find the answer. Actually, you aren't likely to find the answer if you are asking the question in this manner. The question here assumes that there are things the government HAS to do.

A better way to answer this question would be to make a list of your own listing the things YOU think the government HAS to do. Then, think long and hard about that list. Don't focus on simply one group (the elderly, children) that would be affected by certainly policy, rather, consider how everyone not "belonging" to a particular group might be negatively affected. The problem with government is that rarely does a government program end up solving whatever issue there was to begin with. In my opinion, quite the opposite and worse happens thus requiring more programs, more intervention. The cycle continues until it inevitably breaks down completely (the evidence of this is all around you today and now with our economic woes).


4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..

None of the above with possibly the exception of economic solutions. However, I am not speaking of economic help for the poor or disadvantaged, I'm speaking of economic solutions as an individual choice.

Prostitution is nothing more than a "service" provided by the free-market. Just because you or I might find the prospects of earning a living this way reprehensible, it does not mean that all people do. Prostitution is nothing more than a free exchange between 2 consenting adults. Enslaved prostitution however, is the opposite, it is a crime and also the antithesis of freedom.

Bottom line, all government action IS force and government has a monopoly on the supposed "right of force". Why this doesn't scare more people is beyond me..

[jack555]

I have some questions .

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )

2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?

3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)

4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..



I do like Ron Paul`s foreighn policy ...

but it Seems to me that Ron `s domestic plan , is going back in time ....

even so much back in time ...

almost to the Wild West times ...

if so ... I Would like to have Guns made mendetory ... it should be mendetory for every one to have a gun ...

and not just any gun ... but nothing less of an AK-47 .


PS . Excuse my speling .

1) No crime is not freedom assuming we have the same definition of crime. Crime by my definition is using force, fraud, volence, theft, etc against another person.

The government may say that smoking marijuana is a crime. But if you are not hurting anyone else it is not a crime by my definition. Smoking marijuana, because you are not hurting another, is something you have the freedom to do.

2) No, this is a rather silly question and Ron Paul is not asking for churches to run health care. Health care would be provided for completely by the free market. Because healthcare is expensive many churches try to help the poor which is why you would see many religious hospitals. However, for example if you look at a Catholic hospital in existence today it is essentially the same as any other hospital. Now would there be a religious hospital that only used prayer, perhaps somewhere but you would not have to go to it and I don't think any majority of people would want to use it or go to it.

3) No small government means a government that doesn't try to run your life, not because they don't care but because they have no right to do so. For example, the government has no right to tell you you can't smoke maijuana. However they still spend millions of dollars on it. Ron Paul wants to save this money by not enforcing unnecessary and unethical laws.

4) I can't define what prostitution is but it is something 2 adults have the right to do because they are not using force, fraud, volence, theft, etc against another person.

However child porn is a human rights violation against a child. I do not believe children have the right to consent to such an act seeing as they are too young to make those types of decisions for themselves without being manipulated by adults. I believe the act of watching child porn is in effect supporting it's making and is also a very serious and punishable offense. I also believe that an adult filming child porn is a type of fraud against the child.

[Truth Warrior]

I have some questions .

1. Is Crime - freedom ? ( is the act of a crime , a freedom expresion , i mean )

2. If churches ran the hospitals , would we have to qure dangerous diseases with prayers only ?

3. Is "small government " another name for a government that simply doesn`t care ? (not that the one now does , but still , i would guess that making it even less involved would not be of any help ...)

4. Is "Prostitution " for example a freedom expresion ? or is it a lack of government control , education , economic solutions etc . etc ..



I do like Ron Paul`s foreighn policy ...

but it Seems to me that Ron `s domestic plan , is going back in time ....

even so much back in time ...

almost to the Wild West times ...

if so ... I Would like to have Guns made mendetory ... it should be mendetory for every one to have a gun ...

and not just any gun ... but nothing less of an AK-47 .


PS . Excuse my speling .

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." ~ Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

[T34]

Well....

I couldn`t dissagree more .....

It seems the only thing we have in common is the Foreighn policy ... of non - intervation ....


I can quote and answer , each of your post`s , but its going to take alot of time ...

so I`ll just answer my own questions ... and you can read them if you want ( in case you are interested , in my opinion afcourse )

So , acording to me :

1. Crime its NOT freedom . Crime is Individualism . And Individualism should be crime .
Because all crimes , are for benefiting the less numbered or the individual/s in that sence the minority .
and the less numbered should not be benefited any diferent than the majority .

2. Churches should not run hospitals . Religion should not have anything to do with science or medical helth ...
because of extremism .
As far as Doctors go . They should be educated in Government schools , And employed in Government Facilities spread trough the country , and they should go and serv were the government needs them . because ...
tHE government , thats us ... we elect it .. so it should serve us .
not the Doctors strive to make money .

Money should not be the reason for doing everything . Even if acumolating . it should be a mere side efect .
not the reason for treatment .
the reason for treatment should be acheaving the goal - the curing of the dessiase .

3. The point of living in a community is to have a strong government ...
that would provide at least (in my opinion ) 3 basic things
a. ) Job
b. ) Helth Care
c. ) Education
Now , if someone doesnt like that , they can go live in the forest , mine their own iron ore ... oil ... gas ... uranium even ...
and be their own country all by themself ....
and stop enforcing their so could "personal freedom " on the rest .
True Freedom is the freedom of being Responsible .
Self - seficiancy , should be applaid the same way to BOUTH - the community as a whole , and each member .

4. Prostitution is a kind of exploatation . The Porn Industry too .
Its victamising citizens . Its lika a slave - trade .
Every person exposed to media (TV , magazines , etc . ) losses their freedom . thats an imberasing circus ... I personaly like the face of humanity better than its bottom parts . And every person who like women , should not allaw them to be de-valued , and victamized like that .
People who are pro - porn . are Sick twisted people .

It Should NOT be legal , and prostitutes should be put in facilities for labour - re-education ....


About the Gun Ownership .

If we are really going to follow dr Paul plan , of going back ( if thasts a correckt way of putting it ) in time ...
almost to the wild west ...

IT SHOULD BE MENDATORY for every one to have a gun .

LEAVING PEOPLE without a gun its simply recless.

PS . Excuse my spelling .

[JoshLowry]

Get firefox if you don't know how to spell.

It will underline the words for you and you can correct the mistakes.

[Truth Warrior]

Get firefox if you don't know how to spell.

It will underline the words for you and you can correct the mistakes. There's one for I.E. too. ;) http://www.iespell.com/ (http://www.iespell.com/)

[shocker315]

Oh boy....this will be fun to watch :p

[Kludge]

Why work if you do not own the wealth produced by your labor? Capitalism (individualism) provides incentive for selfish people (everyone?) to work.


If you are selfless, you may join a Commune in a free society and work to support others. This is our ideal society, one in which people can set up their own communities as they wish (so long as it's voluntary), whether it be communist, libertarian, or socialist.

[heavenlyboy34]

I see lots of assertions but no coherent reasoning. :(:p I expect a more lengthy post explaining what you've put forth here, or I won't bother with it.


quote=T34;1960752]Well....

I couldn`t dissagree more .....

It seems the only thing we have in common is the Foreighn policy ... of non - intervation ....


I can quote and answer , each of your post`s , but its going to take alot of time ...

so I`ll just answer my own questions ... and you can read them if you want ( in case you are interested , in my opinion afcourse )

So , acording to me :

1. Crime its NOT freedom . Crime is Individualism . And Individualism should be crime .
Because all crimes , are for benefiting the less numbered or the individual/s in that sence the minority .
and the less numbered should not be benefited any diferent than the majority .

2. Churches should not run hospitals . Religion should not have anything to do with science or medical helth ...
because of extremism .
As far as Doctors go . They should be educated in Government schools , And employed in Government Facilities spread trough the country , and they should go and serv were the government needs them . because ...
tHE government , thats us ... we elect it .. so it should serve us .
not the Doctors strive to make money .

Money should not be the reason for doing everything . Even if it is existing . it should be a mere side efect .
not the reason for treatment .
the reason for treatment should be acheaving the goal - the curing of the dessiase .

3. The point of living in a community is to have a strong government ...
that would provide at least (in my opinion ) 3 basic things
a. ) Job
b. ) Helth Care
c. ) Education
Now , if someone doesnt like that , they can go live in the forest , mine their own iron ore ... oil ... gas ... uranium even ...
and be their own country all by themself ....
and stop enforcing their so could "personal freedom " on the rest .
True Freedom is the freedom of being Responsible .
Self - seficiancy , should be applaid the same way to BOUTH - the community as a whole , and each member .

4. Prostitution is a kind of exploatation . The Porn Industry too .
Its victamising citizens . Its lika a slave - trade .
Every person exposed to media (TV , magazines , etc . ) losses their freedom . thats an imberasing circus ... I personaly like the face of humanity better than its bottom parts . And every person who like women , should not allaw them to be de-valued , and victamized like that .
People who are pro - porn . are Sick twisted people .

It Should NOT be legal , and prostitutes should be put in facilities for labour - re-education ....


About the Gun Ownership .

If we are really going to follow dr Paul plan , of going back ( if thasts a correckt way of putting it ) in time ...
almost to the wild west ...

IT SHOULD BE MENDATORY for every one to have a gun .

LEAVING PEOPLE without a gun its simply recless.

PS . Excuse my spelling .[/quote]

[Kludge]

I see lots of assertions but no coherent reasoning. :(:p I expect a more lengthy post explaining what you've put forth here, or I won't bother with it.

:rolleyes:

[T34]

Why work if you do not own the wealth produced by your labor? Capitalism (individualism) provides incentive for selfish people (everyone?) to work.


If you are selfless, you may join a Commune in a free society and work to support others. This is our ideal society, one in which people can set up their own communities as they wish (so long as it's voluntary), whether it be communist, libertarian, or socialist.

Well , we have to work to acheave the goal ... to follow the macro-economic plan ...
So we can advance as a sociaety ....

To produce , the more we produce the better we live .

Everyone is not selfish or individual ...

And if i fall in battle or labour , another will replace me .

big deal its just some kind of person .

But the IDEA , it will live forever .

We should work to suport all .

as a macro - organism . like a bees nest . or ant colony .

its the way of the future .

[Kludge]

And if i fall in battle or labour , another will replace me.

We are nothing, if not individuals. Why do you live? Don't you aspire to become anything - have relationships? How can you do that if you are killed for a government (and society) which doesn't respect you enough to permit you to live freely?

[dannno]

So , acording to me :

1. Crime its NOT freedom . Crime is Individualism . And Individualism should be crime .
Because all crimes , are for benefiting the less numbered or the individual/s in that sence the minority .
and the less numbered should not be benefited any diferent than the majority ..

Individualism just means that we get to make our own decisions about what we do in our lives. Those decisions will have consequences, good or bad. That is pretty presumptuous to think that individuals only "take" from the majority. Ghandi was an individual. Martin Luther King was an individual. Both of these individuals fought for individual rights and equality and helped a great number of people.




2. Churches should not run hospitals . Religion should not have anything to do with science or medical helth ...
because of extremism .

Guess what, in a free society you do not have to go to a hospital run by churches. You get to go to any hospital you want. You, on the other hand, are attempting to force me to go to your government run hospital. That is immoral of you to force your agenda onto others, even if it is a "good" agenda. You don't seem to understand how easily governments can turn tyrannical. Because of this your views are very dangerous to us an individuals.





As far as Doctors go . They should be educated in Government schools , And employed in Government Facilities spread trough the country , and they should go and serv were the government needs them . because ...
tHE government , thats us ... we elect it .. so it should serve us .
not the Doctors strive to make money .

Ron Paul is a doctor and he used to treat those who could not afford it for free. Doctors used to do this because it is part of the oath they take when they become doctors. Now doctors get to bill the government for everybody's ills, and this is precisely what has driven up the costs of healthcare. In fact, doctors are having a tough time getting by due to all of the large corporations endowed by the government who run our healthcare industry, including insurance companies. In other words, individuals are shelling out a ton of cash for very poor service due to government intervention in healthcare.




Money should not be the reason for doing everything . Even if it is existing . it should be a mere side efect .
not the reason for treatment .
the reason for treatment should be acheaving the goal - the curing of the dessiase .

The government is really bad at treating diseases. Leave that to doctors and patients. If you want some healthcare advise, PM me, I can give you much better general health advise than the government and most doctors. That is because I am an individual who is not restrained by the system that you seem to support.




3. The point of living in a community is to have a strong government ...
that would provide at least (in my opinion ) 3 basic things
a. ) Job
b. ) Helth Care
c. ) Education
Now , if someone doesnt like that , they can go live in the forest , mine their own iron ore ... oil ... gas ... uranium even ...
and be their own country all by themself ....
and stop enforcing their so could "personal freedom " on the rest .
True Freedom is the freedom of being Responsible .
Self - seficiancy , should be applaid the same way to BOUTH - the community as a whole , and each member .

How can you be self sufficient when the government takes half of everything you make?




4. Prostitution is a kind of exploatation . The Porn Industry too .
Its victamising citizens . Its lika a slave - trade .

This is ridiculous. You are comparing two people who are transacting willfully with one person in bondage and the other person essentially raping them. That is disgraceful to the people who are in the sex slave trade and have no choice. I would think they would be quite offended by your view. The "free" women in the porn and prostitution industry are there on their own accord. They can leave any time they would like to. Instead, most of them end up in jail because of people with ridiculous notions such as yourself. Then they get trapped in the system and never recover. Your cure is much worse than the disease.

Has anybody ever accused you of being "bossy"? You are trying to boss the world around with your big-government agenda. Most people want to live their own lives how they choose, and as long as they don't hurt other people they should be able to. Yet here you come along trying to tell everybody how to live. It makes me ill inside, just like pornography makes you ill.




About the Gun Ownership .

If we are really going to follow dr Paul plan , of going back ( if thasts a correckt way of putting it ) in time ...
almost to the wild west ...

IT SHOULD BE MENDATORY for every one to have a gun .

LEAVING PEOPLE without a gun its simply recless.

PS . Excuse my spelling .


About that media comment you made earlier.. the "Wild West" was actually quite tame compared to the dramatized movies that came out of it.

Have you ever heard the phrase "if guns were illegal then only the criminals would have guns" ?

An armed populace is more polite. Societies where gun ownership is legal have much lower crime rates than those that don't.

[pcosmar]

T34
Isn't that the obsolete Russian tank?
That was the first tank I learned to hunt.

Seems most of your views are from that era and area of the world.:rolleyes:

[JaylieWoW]

Well , we have to work to acheave the goal ... to follow the macro-economic plan ...
So we can advance as a sociaety ....

To produce , the more we produce the better we live .

Everyone is not selfish or individual ...

And if i fall in battle or labour , another will replace me .

big deal its just some kind of person .

But the IDEA , it will live forever .

We should work to suport all .

as a macro - organism . like a bees nest . or ant colony .

its the way of the future .

... But these go to 11!

Said all I could say, you keep your views and force them on anyone you would like, I prefer, however, to be free rather than enslaved.

[axiomata]

T34
Isn't that the obsolete Russian tank?
That was the first tank I learned to hunt.

Seems most of your views are from that era and area of the world.:rolleyes:
Yes, only I learned to hunt it in a video game (Red Orchestra)

[T34]

We are nothing, if not individuals. Why do you live? Don't you aspire to become anything - have relationships? How can you do that if you are killed for a government (and society) which doesn't respect you enough to permit you to live freely?

I live to make things better for the colony , all for the colony .

all for the motherland .

people dont need relationships ... exept commeradory and increase in numbers .

If Im Killed another will replace me .

And if its needed I would be dismenteled so the others can continue .

its no diferent than what a soldier or a fireman does everyday .

Society - thats us .

[Kludge]

That's enough of that.

[JoshLowry]

I live to make things better for the colony , all for the colony .

all for the motherland .

people dont need relationships ... exept commeradory and increase in numbers .

If Im Killed another will replace me .

And if its needed I would be dismenteled so the others can continue .

its no diferent than what a soldier or a fireman does everyday .

Society - thats us .

You're either high, trolling for fun, or very strange.

[axiomata]

You're either high, trolling for fun, or very strange.
Or a full blooded Stalinist.

[T34]

T34
Isn't that the obsolete Russian tank?


It is the greatest tank ever made . the Soviet T34.

[MRoCkEd]

Alright, he's trolling.

[T34]

... But these go to 11!

Said all I could say, you keep your views and force them on anyone you would like, I prefer, however, to be free rather than enslaved.

Well , can i argue without nesseserily enslaving you ?

[axiomata]

It is the greatest tank ever made . the Soviet T34.
I seem to recall them getting annihilated by German Panzers.

Kill/Loss Ratio of the Tiger Battalions (1942 - 1945):
Losses 1,715 Kills 9,850 Ratio 5.74

[Zolah]

Or a full blooded Stalinist.

Sure is a crazy mix of all those things. With extra crazy.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I live to make things better for the colony , all for the colony .

all for the motherland .

people dont need relationships ... exept commeradory and increase in numbers .

If Im Killed another will replace me .

And if its needed I would be dismenteled so the others can continue .

its no diferent than what a soldier or a fireman does everyday .

Society - thats us .

http://assimilated.pl/borg.gif

[JoshLowry]

I'm sure another troll/crazy will replace you.

Farewell.

[Truth Warrior]

Now about that WWII, Lend-Lease. I think you've fallen somewhat behind in your payments. :D

[Kludge]

I'm sure another troll/crazy will replace you.

Farewell.


Now about that WWII, Lend-Lease. I think you've fallen somewhat behind in your payments. :D

That's soooo weird!

[BuddyRey]

Well....

I couldn`t dissagree more .....

It seems the only thing we have in common is the Foreighn policy ... of non - intervation ....


I can quote and answer , each of your post`s , but its going to take alot of time ...

so I`ll just answer my own questions ... and you can read them if you want ( in case you are interested , in my opinion afcourse )

So , acording to me :

1. Crime its NOT freedom . Crime is Individualism . And Individualism should be crime .
Because all crimes , are for benefiting the less numbered or the individual/s in that sence the minority .
and the less numbered should not be benefited any diferent than the majority .

2. Churches should not run hospitals . Religion should not have anything to do with science or medical helth ...
because of extremism .
As far as Doctors go . They should be educated in Government schools , And employed in Government Facilities spread trough the country , and they should go and serv were the government needs them . because ...
tHE government , thats us ... we elect it .. so it should serve us .
not the Doctors strive to make money .

Money should not be the reason for doing everything . Even if acumolating . it should be a mere side efect .
not the reason for treatment .
the reason for treatment should be acheaving the goal - the curing of the dessiase .

3. The point of living in a community is to have a strong government ...
that would provide at least (in my opinion ) 3 basic things
a. ) Job
b. ) Helth Care
c. ) Education
Now , if someone doesnt like that , they can go live in the forest , mine their own iron ore ... oil ... gas ... uranium even ...
and be their own country all by themself ....
and stop enforcing their so could "personal freedom " on the rest .
True Freedom is the freedom of being Responsible .
Self - seficiancy , should be applaid the same way to BOUTH - the community as a whole , and each member .

4. Prostitution is a kind of exploatation . The Porn Industry too .
Its victamising citizens . Its lika a slave - trade .
Every person exposed to media (TV , magazines , etc . ) losses their freedom . thats an imberasing circus ... I personaly like the face of humanity better than its bottom parts . And every person who like women , should not allaw them to be de-valued , and victamized like that .
People who are pro - porn . are Sick twisted people .

It Should NOT be legal , and prostitutes should be put in facilities for labour - re-education ....


About the Gun Ownership .

If we are really going to follow dr Paul plan , of going back ( if thasts a correckt way of putting it ) in time ...
almost to the wild west ...

IT SHOULD BE MENDATORY for every one to have a gun .

LEAVING PEOPLE without a gun its simply recless.

PS . Excuse my spelling .

Wow...No offense intended, but your ideal world seems like a very violent, hurtful, and intolerant place to me. May I ask you for clarification on one point? Would you tear me away from my family, lock me in a cage with violent people who may hurt me, and destroy my life just because I made a decision to see a prostitute (not that I ever would, because I personally oppose prostitution), or made the personal decision to see a doctor who wasn't government-trained?

[JoshLowry]

That's soooo weird!

I see what you did there.

[pcosmar]

Yup, that's what I thought.

http://sa100.ru/armor/Ger/t6b/Greet/pic27.jpg

http://rokdrop.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/nktank20jul1950.jpg

They have been left burning every where they have gone.

[brandon]

lmao it's communist aratus

[Truth Warrior]

That's soooo weird! I don't understand that phrase. :D

[tetris]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/22/2197154/Russian_This_Man_Is_Your_Friend.jpg

[Kludge]

Is the OP (and "new" OP) comparing the "Liberty Movement" to Communism?

[Truth Warrior]

Kade brought K-K-K-Komrades.<IMHO> :p :rolleyes:

[pcosmar]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/11/22/2197154/Russian_This_Man_Is_Your_Friend.jpg

I see you,
and raise this,
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
Communist Body Count: 149,469,610 , not counting wars.

[tetris]

Is the OP (and "new" OP) comparing the "Liberty Movement" to Communism?


Ron Poul `s Book is could "The Revolution , A Manifesto "

[pcosmar]

Ron Poul `s Book is could "The Revolution , A Manifesto "

New guy can't spell either.

[MRoCkEd]

Ron Poul `s Book is could "The Revolution , A Manifesto "
I suggest reading it.

[tetris]

I seem to recall them getting annihilated by German Panzers.

Kill/Loss Ratio of the Tiger Battalions (1942 - 1945):
Losses 1,715 Kills 9,850 Ratio 5.74


Its was all about quantity . in this particular situation . Production wins wars .

[tetris]

I suggest reading it.

I Red , the Communist Manifesto ... it talked about a revolution too ..

[brandon]

I Red , the Communist Manifesto ... it talked about a revolution too ..

lmao, new account already?
Is english not your natural language?

[pcosmar]

Its was all about quantity . in this particular situation . Production wins wars .

That was the plan,
Just overwhelm them with Large quantities of inferior shit.

[tetris]

I see you,
and raise this,
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
Communist Body Count: 149,469,610 , not counting wars.

All the problems in the Communist societies , came from outside preasure ....

not so much from the system .

[MRoCkEd]

I Red , the Communist Manifesto ... it talked about a revolution too ..
They're both manifestos, but the ideas are nearly opposites.

[tetris]

That was the plan,
Just overwhelm them with Large quantities of inferior shit.

well it wasnt all that inferior .... it had the first slope - armor .

[1000-points-of-fright]

Ron Poul `s Book is could "The Revolution , A Manifesto "

Karl Marx did not invent, nor does he own, the word "Manifesto".

A manifesto is a public declaration of principles and intentions, often political in nature, but may also be life stance related.

Manifesto is derived from the Italian word manifesto, itself derived from the Latin manifestum. Its first recorded use in English is from 1620, in Nathaniel Brent's translation of Paolo Sarpi's Historie of the councel of Trent.

The United States declaration of Independence is also a manifesto.

[tetris]

Karl Marx did not invent, nor does he own, the word "Manifesto".

A manifesto is a public declaration of principles and intentions, often political in nature, but may also be life stance related.

Manifesto is derived from the Italian word manifesto, itself derived from the Latin manifestum. Its first recorded use in English is from 1620, in Nathaniel Brent's translation of Paolo Sarpi's Historie of the councel of Trent.

The United States declaration of Independence is also a manifesto.


Im just saying that its nice to see , America suporting some kind of ideology ...

it use to be against everything .

[tetris]

Individualism just means that we get to make our own decisions about what we do in our lives.

when we talk about "WE" its not really individualism .




Guess what, in a free society you do not have to go to a hospital run by churches. You get to go to any hospital you want. You, on the other hand, are attempting to force me to go to your government run hospital. That is immoral of you to force your agenda onto others, even if it is a "good" agenda. You don't seem to understand how easily governments can turn tyrannical. Because of this your views are very dangerous to us an individuals. [quote]

well thats not true , you are trying to make every one go in privet hospitals and be robed ... and mistakable treated ...
plus the good once are always on one spot the centre of the city ...
no one opens hospitals far away ...
because doctors whant to make monney , and only second - cure people ...
its should be a crime to do that .
some doctors even delute drugs to save money .



[quote]Ron Paul is a doctor and he used to treat those who could not afford it for free. Doctors used to do this because it is part of the oath they take when they become doctors. Now doctors get to bill the government for everybody's ills, and this is precisely what has driven up the costs of healthcare. In fact, doctors are having a tough time getting by due to all of the large corporations endowed by the government who run our healthcare industry, including insurance companies. In other words, individuals are shelling out a ton of cash for very poor service due to government intervention in healthcare.

well not every doktor is Ron Paul .

corporations are the problem . helth care should be universal . and providet buy the government . with no midle man (the corporations )





The government is really bad at treating diseases. Leave that to doctors and patients. If you want some healthcare advise, PM me, I can give you much better general health advise than the government and most doctors. That is because I am an individual who is not restrained by the system that you seem to support.

Its not like the government will cure you ...
all im saying is that ...
doctors should work for the government . they should be educated in government universities . and the government should tell them were to serve ...because the government should know better were there are lack of doktors .









How can you be self sufficient when the government takes half of everything you make?

well thats how society is self sufficient ... and it dont need other people in other countrys to produce stuff for it .





This is ridiculous. You are comparing two people who are transacting willfully with one person in bondage and the other person essentially raping them. That is disgraceful to the people who are in the sex slave trade and have no choice. I would think they would be quite offended by your view. The "free" women in the porn and prostitution industry are there on their own accord. They can leave any time they would like to. Instead, most of them end up in jail because of people with ridiculous notions such as yourself. Then they get trapped in the system and never recover. Your cure is much worse than the disease.

Has anybody ever accused you of being "bossy"? You are trying to boss the world around with your big-government agenda. Most people want to live their own lives how they choose, and as long as they don't hurt other people they should be able to. Yet here you come along trying to tell everybody how to live. It makes me ill inside, just like pornography makes you ill.

No that is rediculas .... Prostitutes are not FREE , they are exploited by the capitalist system . also the porn people ...

dose woman should get education , and work like the other members of the society , without being victamized ... in this way .

its not ok , if they dont know any better .








About that media comment you made earlier.. the "Wild West" was actually quite tame compared to the dramatized movies that came out of it.

Have you ever heard the phrase "if guns were illegal then only the criminals would have guns" ?

An armed populace is more polite. Societies where gun ownership is legal have much lower crime rates than those that don't.

I sad that guns should be Mendetory . for Alll .

[axiomata]

IP ban?

And yes, we know tetris was created in Russia.

[pcosmar]

Well, "tetris" is is quite obvious that you neither Listened to Ron Paul's message nor understood it.

You are promoting the same Socialist bullshit that is ruining this country as it has in others.

[ClayTrainor]

haha... these socialists are worse than most "911 Truthers" with their Conspiracies by "Corporations".


Marxism is just 1 big monopoly, where 1 man is subject to the rule of EVERYONE. The exact opposite of "Freedom", where 1 man is protected from everyone.

[ClayTrainor]

No that is rediculas .... Prostitutes are not FREE , they are exploited by the capitalist system . also the porn people ...

dose woman should get education , and work like the other members of the society , without being victamized ... in this way .

its not ok , if they dont know any better .




The problem has nothing to do with capitalism. the problem is that Prostitution is Illegal and there is demand for it, therefore a black market is created where Laws do not apply.

Look at Amsterdam and Las Vegas where prostitution is Legal. Girls can quit whenever they want, they aren't oppressed, they make a lot of money, they are required by law to get tested for disease.

It's safer for everyone. When you make it illegal, girls get traded around like currency or drugs, and they are oppressed by their "owners" a.k.a. "Pimps".

We need to enable the free-market, to allow competitive companies to compete for the demand of the consumer. The government just gets in the way of this, and collectivism hinders productivity, as those who produce are less motivated to do so.

[Young Paleocon]

Now don't beat up on Komrade Tetris that badly regarding the T34. We had to produce a shit load of Shermans to be anywhere near capable of taking out panzers. Hell, it took 3-5 Shermans to surround and to be able to destroy a Tiger I.

[axiomata]

Now don't beat up on Komrade Tetris that badly regarding the T34. We had to produce a shit load of Shermans to be anywhere near capable of taking out panzers. Hell, it took 3-5 Shermans to surround and to be able to destroy a Tiger I.
No, the T34 was a fine tank, just not "the greatest tank ever made" as he claimed.

[tetris]

And yes, we know tetris was created in Russia.

Well Tetris shows Soviet Mind set game... its a workers game ...

its about production .... you build a line it disapears ... you build another one , work never stop...

its not like Pac-Man ... witch is all about consumption ...

[tetris]

No, the T34 was a fine tank, just not "the greatest tank ever made" as he claimed.


It is the greatest tank .... it won the greatest battle .

[tetris]

Well, "tetris" is is quite obvious that you neither Listened to Ron Paul's message nor understood it.

You are promoting the same Socialist bullshit that is ruining this country as it has in others.

Well thats not exactly true ... the US Fed , are not running a socialist government but a anti-socialist one ...

but .... in orther to compete with a socialist government (the USSR ) you have to became , a little bit like them ...

in that sence ... competing or contraring the USSR is what made America , what it is today ....

Soviet Preasure shaped what america is today ...

witch is some what good .... with out Soviet Preasure , the Civil Rights movement would have never hapened ..

you wouldn`t have social programs .... Europe too ... the same way ...

I think Americans should be more thankfull to the Soviets ...

and now after the USSR is no more ... America , has an identity crisis ...

[JaylieWoW]

Well , can i argue without nesseserily enslaving you ?

Certainly you may. I am merely suggesting that if you wish to have the type of society you have described I concede to your right to do so. I stand on a different side and view your thoughts on how society should be as enslavement.

[pcosmar]

Well thats not exactly true ... the US Fed , are not running a socialist government but a anti-socialist one ...

but .... in orther to compete with a socialist government (the USSR ) you have to became , a little bit like them ...

in that sence ... competing or contraring the USSR is what made America , what it is today ....

Soviet Preasure shaped what america is today ...

witch is some what good .... with out Soviet Preasure , the Civil Rights movement would have never hapened ..

you wouldn`t have social programs .... Europe too ... the same way ...

I think Americans should be more thankfull to the Soviets ...

and now after the USSR is no more ... America , has an identity crisis ...

Unfortunately, this is partly true.
Socialists have been undermining this country since the early 1900s. Both the Soviet Communists and the Fabian Socialists, The Fabians successes are partly due to them Outing and exploiting the the soviet branch.

But back to those tanks.
A good article here.
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/best_enemy/chapter_12.ht

Soviet tractor plants were established in the early I930s with major U.S. technical and equipment assistance. The Stalingrad tractor plant was completely built in the United States, shipped to Stalingrad, and then installed in prefabricated steel buildings also purchased in the United States.


The Soviet T-34 and the American M-3, both based on the Christie, had the same 12-cylinder aero engine, a V-type Liberty of 338 horsepower. Ogorkiewicz comments on the Christie model series as follows:

The power-weight ratio was actually higher than could be efficiently used, but the Russians copied it all and confined their development largely to armament, which increased from a 37-millimeter gun on the original models of 1931, to 45-millimeter guns on BT-5 of 1935, and eventually to short 76.2-millimeter guns on some of the final models of the series.

Both the Soviet T-28 medium 29-ton tank and the T-35 45-ton heavy tank resembled British models — the A-6 medium tank and the A-1 Vickers Independent, respectively. Imported French Renault designs also contributed to Russian tank knowledge. During the 1933 entente between France and the Soviet Union, the Renault Company delivered $11 million worth of "small fast tanks and artillery tractors" to the Soviet Union and supplied experts from the Schneider works and Panhard Levasseur, skilled in the armored-car and tank field.

As I said before, I am a Tank Hunter. All tanks can be defeated, even US ones. But I studied the T34 thru T90 series because they were my intended target.

[tetris]

Certainly you may. I am merely suggesting that if you wish to have the type of society you have described I concede to your right to do so. I stand on a different side and view your thoughts on how society should be as enslavement.

Thank you ...

but I `m afraid that , you dissagreeing with me , just proves my point ....

you dissagree with me because of individualism ....

if there were no individualism ... we would have had the same opinion ... and we would have move forward ... to the bright socialist future .

[BuddyRey]

Wow...No offense intended, but your ideal world seems like a very violent, hurtful, and intolerant place to me. May I ask you for clarification on one point? Would you tear me away from my family, lock me in a cage with violent people who may hurt me, and destroy my life just because I made a decision to see a prostitute (not that I ever would, because I personally oppose prostitution), or made the personal decision to see a doctor who wasn't government-trained?

Bump. Still waiting for an answer to this question. ;)

[pcosmar]

to the bright socialist future .

http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/iconic/images/wall.jpg

Over the Wall

The Berlin Wall came to symbolize the Cold War (1945-1990). It was put up in 1961 on the orders of East Germany's leader, Walter Ulbricht, to stop people leaving for the West. During the wall's existence there were around 5,000 successful escapes into West Berlin. Over 200 people were killed trying to make it across. East Berliners breached the wall in November 1989. The following year Germany was re-united.

http://www.solsup.com.au/greenman/havana.jpg
http://pfpix.com/images/Cuba/Cuba09.jpg

I wonder why so many want to leave that "Bright Future".

[tetris]

Unfortunately, this is partly true.
Socialists have been undermining this country since the early 1900s. Both the Soviet Communists and the Fabian Socialists, The Fabians successes are partly due to them Outing and exploiting the the soviet branch.

But back to those tanks.
A good article here.
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/best_enemy/chapter_12.ht




As I said before, I am a Tank Hunter. All tanks can be defeated, even US ones. But I studied the T34 thru T90 series because they were my intended target.

Well , the mith that Soviet technology is all copied from somewhere else its not really true ...
it just seemed like that for westerners ...
because the soviets were not big on Intelectual Property Rights of individuals ....
Because the point was that the people created machines , for all soviet people ....to claim property of them ...

its like you create something for fun ... but once its done . who cares ... you can trow it away and make another one .. may be even better ...

witch is a good mind set (I think )

but back to the tanks ...

here is a video with soviet experimental tank dizins ...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrNkV6kVPos

[JaylieWoW]

Thank you ...

but I `m afraid that , you dissagreeing with me , just proves my point ....

you dissagree with me because of individualism ....

if there were no individualism ... we would have had the same opinion ... and we would have move forward ... to the bright socialist future .

Actually me disagreeing with you only proves that we disagree. :D

[tetris]

http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/iconic/images/wall.jpg


http://www.solsup.com.au/greenman/havana.jpg
http://pfpix.com/images/Cuba/Cuba09.jpg

I wonder why so many want to leave that "Bright Future".

Well its kind of hard , wen the whole world is against you ...

even thow the USSR was the biggest country ..

[tetris]

Actually me disagreeing with you only proves that we disagree. :D

Well you dissagree , because of individualism ... because you are a diferent individual with diferent opinions ...

if there were no individualism .. we would think the same way , and move forward ... dont you think so ?

[pcosmar]

Well you dissagree , because of individualism ... because you are a diferent individual with diferent opinions ...

if there were no individualism .. we would think the same way , and move forward ... dont you think so ?

Nope.
Stagnation. Lack of incentive. Poverty.
That does not seem forward.
Rather backward.

[tetris]

Bump. Still waiting for an answer to this question. ;)

well ... there would be no prostitutes ... girls like that will be send to labour re - education .

you would probably be charged as the law requires . like everywhere .

for a doctor out of the system ... well thats up to you , but dose doctors would not be verry good because , you dont know where he has gotten his degree , because if he was a dogtor with government job , and education , like all of them , he would be a trained profecional working for the government ...

i dont know where you would find non - govermently trained doctor ...

they would practickly not exist ... and if they are not governmently trained ...
how can you be sure of their training ... i dont think that you really whant to do that .

[tetris]

Nope.
Stagnation. Lack of incentive. Poverty.
That does not seem forward.
Rather backward.

Only because of ideological and capitalist outside preasure ....