WorldNetDaily Attacks Ron Paul...Again.

[mconder]

Being 'gay' a sin? Ron Paul can't say
Congressman on God condemning homosexuality: 'I have trouble with that'
Posted: February 11, 2009
11:40 pm Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Only months after announcing his candidacy for president, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, declared that he could not judge homosexuality as a sin and affirmed his support for the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy – a rule the Obama administration has indicated it plans to repeal altogether.

In an interview on "The American View" on Aug. 25, 2007, host John Lofton asked Paul, "Do you believe [homosexuality] is a sin?"

"I'm not as judgmental about that probably because of my medical background, so I don't see it in that simplistic terms," Paul said. "I think it's a complex issue to decide whether it is sin or other problems with the way people are born. It's, to me, too complex to give an answer as simple as that."

Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills told WND the congressman is a Christian and does not declare a denomination.

The Bible itself condemns homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments. It is described as "abomination" in Leviticus 18:21, and the apostle Paul slams the practice of how "men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly ..." (Romans 1:26).

Lofton then asked Paul if he believes God considers homosexuality a sin.

"Well, I believe a lot of people understand it that way, but I think everybody is God's child, too," he said. "So, I have trouble with that."

The host responded, "Actually, everyone is made in the image of God, but not everyone is a child of God. Some are children of the devil. That's what Jesus says."

Referring to Paul's support of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, Lofton asked why he wouldn't consider "unrepentant sinners" such as homosexuals and adulterers "people with flawed character" who should be prohibited from serving in the military.

"Because I think for every homosexual problem that we have in the military, we have a heterosexual problem," Paul said. "… [I]f we have a heterosexual that's visiting the prostitutes on the bases – sometimes we set up the prostitutes for them – that's, to me, so disgraceful. So, I don't see it as being all one-sided."

Paul said one example of heterosexual problems in the military is when female soldiers have children during their enlistment.

"I think one of the biggest problems we're facing in the military right now is young women in the military. Then we end up with pregnancies in the military," he said. "I see that as a heterosexual problem, and I'll bet you, financially, that's as big of a burden on us as any homosexual problems that we have."

Lofton argued that the United States should seek out people with "good moral character" to serve in the armed forces. He referenced an incident in which George Washington signed an order to remove a person who was accused of attempting to commit homosexual sodomy from the Continental Army.

"Why wouldn't you say, yeah, we'll try to stop anyone from getting in the military who is a homosexual, who is an adulterer, who is a fornicator, and other categories that indicate a character flaw?" Lofton asked. "Why shouldn't we try to do that?"

"They're imperfect because we're all imperfect, and we all sin. So, if the heterosexual or the homosexual sins, that, to me, is a category dealing with their own soul," Paul replied. "… I sort of think that for the practicality of running a military, I just assume not know every serious thing that any heterosexual did or any homosexual did. Those flaws have to do with all our flaws because each and every one of us has had imperfections, and we all are sinners."

Lofton said he too believes all people have sinned, but that there's a difference between sinners who "fight their sins" and unrepentant sinners.

"[U]nrepentant homosexuals who are parading down Main Street saying they're proud that they're homosexuals, these are not people that are merely sinners," he said.

Paul told Lofton that if the military is seeking people of good moral character, it must find people who don't lie, cheat, steal, murder, beat their spouses and who take care of their children.

"If you can find people like that, they may not be perfect, but they would be of moral character, they could be in our military," he said. "Of course, what we're doing in our military now and with our foreign policy, we're desperate for people. We're putting anybody and everybody in. … I think this is one of the reasons we end up with people in the military doing things that are rather despicable that have nothing to do with their sexual orientation."

Lofton replied, "Well, one thing's for sure, and I believe this as a Christian: God will not bless an army or a military that's full of unrepentant, practicing homosexuals and adulterers and fornicators."

[Danke]

Didn't God also say, "Thou Shall not Kill."??


I think we should exclude those people who would kill from the military too!

[Sandra]

Why are you even reading WND?

[Matt Collins]

This sounds like a setup.

[Matt Collins]

Didn't God also say, "Thou Shall not Kill."??
Actually I believe the original phrase was "murder"instead of "kill"

[gls]

Every time I think I couldn't possibly respect Dr. Paul any more he somehow raises the bar.

[Original_Intent]

So this entire article is based on an August 2007 interview?

Slow news day?

[brandon]

Actually I believe the original phrase was "murder"instead of "kill"

Yea, this is what the christian's claim...but it makes no sense to me. "Murder" is legal term that is defined for modern times. How could they have had a legal definition for murder more then a millenia before common law even existed?

And if this is true, then the killing of Jesus was not a sin because it was not murder. He was lawfully killed by the state.

So in God's eyes, all you have to do is become the leader of a group of people and then you are allowed to kill whoever you want without sinning. Yea makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes: :confused:

[CMoore]

Every time I think I couldn't possibly respect Dr. Paul any more he somehow raises the bar.

I concur. That was the most wise response to a question I have read in a long time. It is usually a no-win situation when you go up against these ultra-religious types, but he really hit it out of the park. What a thoughtful and intelligent response!!

[Truth Warrior]

If true, then they can just cancel my non subscription. ;) :D

[Bontemps]

"dont ask, dont tell" is a policy that needs to be eliminated. wasn't it under a century ago that there were segregated units, seperate for Black, White, and Asian? they were segregated for the same, basic issues; the fact that they soldiers couldn't handle it, but they got over it, and the country moved on.

[Truth Warrior]

"dont ask, dont tell" is a policy that needs to be eliminated. wasn't it under a century ago that there were segregated units, seperate for Black, White, and Asian? they were segregated for the same, basic issues; the fact that they soldiers couldn't handle it, but they got over it, and the country moved on. It came in through POTUS Bubba. :p :rolleyes:

[MRoCkEd]

Wow that was a really old interview.

[Truth Warrior]

Actually I believe the original phrase was "murder"instead of "kill" You got the government version. ;) :D

[aravoth]

This is the most pointless and stupid article I have ever seen in my entire life.

WND : "DO you support GAYZ DOCTOR?"

RP : "uhh"

WND : "DO YOU?!?!?!"

RP : "I don't think it's my busi..."

WND : "DO YOU WANT THESE ABOMINATIONS RUNNING FREE!?!?!?"

RP : "Jesus loves us all, he told us tha..."

WND : "JESUS HATES ****, HE TOLD US THEY ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE DEVIL....THE DEVILLLLL!!!!!"

RP : "uhhh"

WND : "THE REASON THE USA IS IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE IS BECAUSE YOU TOLERATE THOSE DAMN GAY FOLK AND THIER FORNICATIN'!!!!"

I hate WND.

[ChaosControl]

I'm totally lost. What was the point of that article at all, to just post an old interview?
Well for the interview that lofton guy seems a bit odd, especially that last line.

[Zolah]

Didn't seem like much of a hit piece to me...was pretty darn uninteresting by any means.

[nate895]

Yea, this is what the christian's claim...but it makes no sense to me. "Murder" is legal term that is defined for modern times. How could they have had a legal definition for murder more then a millenia before common law even existed?

And if this is true, then the killing of Jesus was not a sin because it was not murder. He was lawfully killed by the state.

So in God's eyes, all you have to do is become the leader of a group of people and then you are allowed to kill whoever you want without sinning. Yea makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes: :confused:

Just because you are a leader of a group of people doesn't mean you can kill people and not have it be murder. The government can commit murder. Murder is the premeditated killing of someone and not in self defense. Governments can do that.

[Matt Collins]

Yea, this is what the christian's claim...but it makes no sense to me. "Murder" is legal term that is defined for modern times. How could they have had a legal definition for murder more then a millenia before common law even existed?

And if this is true, then the killing of Jesus was not a sin because it was not murder. He was lawfully killed by the state.

So in God's eyes, all you have to do is become the leader of a group of people and then you are allowed to kill whoever you want without sinning. Yea makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes: :confused:Again you are trying to apply a post-renaissance rational mindset to something that was written way before that level of thinking existed.

[Truth Warrior]

Just because you are a leader of a group of people doesn't mean you can kill people and not have it be murder. The government can commit murder. Murder is the premeditated killing of someone and not in self defense. Governments can do that. Perhaps with your blessing and permission, not with mine. ;)

[mediahasyou]

well Ron Paul isn't the messiah...:rolleyes:

[BuddyRey]

It's odd how two people can have two totally different interpretations of who is the victor in a political debate. The World Net Daily commentator (whose name I don't find important enough to commit to memory) heard the virtuous Good Reverend Doctor Lofton slaying a vile manifestation of the Beast infernal, and I heard an audibly annoyed Dr. Paul trying futilely to hammer some semblance of logical thinking into the impenetrable miasma of John "Yay for Me 'Cause I'm on the God Side" Lofton's irretrievably warped pea-brain.

[brandon]

Murder is the premeditated killing of someone and not in self defense. Governments can do that.

Not exactly.

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of somebody with intent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Obviously the government decides what is or is not lawful. So when God allegedly delivered the 10 commandments to Moses, was he really leaving it up to governments to decide what is and is not a sin?

It's either the above, or he was telling humans that killing in general is a sin, weather it is in self defense, war, unintentional or otherwise.


Oh yea, or the 10 commandments were created by ancient men and God doesn't exist.

[Truth Warrior]

It's odd how two people can have two totally different interpretations of who is the victor in a political debate. The World Net Daily commentator (whose name I don't find important enough to commit to memory) heard the virtuous Good Reverend Doctor Lofton slaying a vile manifestation of the Beast infernal, and I heard an audibly annoyed Dr. Paul trying futilely to hammer some semblance of logical thinking into the impenetrable miasma of John "Yay for Me 'Cause I'm on the God Side" Lofton's irretrievably warped pea-brain. Lofton hasn't been reading his Jesus ............. either. :(

[Kade]

It's odd how two people can have two totally different interpretations of who is the victor in a political debate. The World Net Daily commentator (whose name I don't find important enough to commit to memory) heard the virtuous Good Reverend Doctor Lofton slaying a vile manifestation of the Beast infernal, and I heard an audibly annoyed Dr. Paul trying futilely to hammer some semblance of logical thinking into the impenetrable miasma of John "Yay for Me 'Cause I'm on the God Side" Lofton's irretrievably warped pea-brain.

Yep.

It's at this time that I would like to point out for the first time in my return that (say it with me now) "Religion Poisons Everything (http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446579807)".

[Truth Warrior]

Yep.

It's at this time that I would like to point out for the first time in my return that (say it with me now) "Religion Poisons Everything (http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446579807)".

Politics Is a Sociopathic Cult (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer96.html)

[nate895]

Not exactly.

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of somebody with intent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Obviously the government decides what is or is not lawful. So when God allegedly delivered the 10 commandments to Moses, was he really leaving it up to governments to decide what is and is not a sin?

It's either the above, or he was telling humans that killing in general is a sin, weather it is in self defense, war, unintentional or otherwise.

Actually, the government doe snot determine what is lawful. That is what is called to as "Legal positivism," whereas natural law holds that no one cannot commit aggression against those who have not committed aggression against you. That includes the government. Besides, God has sovereignty over all people at all times, and therefore he is the ultimate arbiter after we die.


Oh yea, or the 10 commandments were created by ancient men and God doesn't exist.

I'll pretend you didn't say that.

[heavenlyboy34]

Lofton hasn't been reading his Jesus ............. either. :(

That seems to be going around. :(:p

[Truth Warrior]

That seems to be going around. :(:p Only for around 2,000 years for this one. :(

[BuddyRey]

Lofton hasn't been reading his Jesus ............. either. :(

Agreed! Between this and the infamous "Shood We Murdur Teh Gayz?" thread, I'm more and more embarrassed to be a Christian lately...not embarrassed by Christ Himself, but of most of the people who claim to represent Him. :(

And I know I'm being a tad hypocritical, because I just said nasty things about John Lofton, but I don't hate him (let alone want to murder him) for the way he lives his life.

[UtahApocalypse]

Ron Paul is the only politician I know that could have a Personal view of something, but not let it cloud he judgment of the Constitutionality of something.

[micahnelson]

I think when we stop and take a look at the world around us, its important to focus on the real issues that hold us back from greatness in this country.

I refer, of course, to the centuries old paradox- how can we stop two men from kissing?


Intended to be sarcasm, I remembered that some of the largest empires created in western civilization were forged by the Romans and the Greeks. These cultures made San Francisco look like Salt Lake City. I guess the real question is- can any empire's military be successful without homosexuality?

[Danke]

I refer, of course, to the centuries old paradox- how can we stop two men from kissing?


Intended to be sarcasm, I remembered that some of the largest empires created in western civilization were forged by the Romans and the Greeks. These cultures made San Francisco look like Salt Lake City. I guess the real question is- can any empire's military be successful without homosexuality?

Alright move along here.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/plsullivan06790/more%20stuff%2011-13-07/Graham_Chapman_Colonel.jpg

[satchelmcqueen]

This sounds like a setup.

yep

[blocks]

This is the most pointless and stupid article I have ever seen in my entire life.

WND : "DO you support GAYZ DOCTOR?"

RP : "uhh"

WND : "DO YOU?!?!?!"

RP : "I don't think it's my busi..."

WND : "DO YOU WANT THESE ABOMINATIONS RUNNING FREE!?!?!?"

RP : "Jesus loves us all, he told us tha..."

WND : "JESUS HATES ****, HE TOLD US THEY ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE DEVIL....THE DEVILLLLL!!!!!"

RP : "uhhh"

WND : "THE REASON THE USA IS IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE IS BECAUSE YOU TOLERATE THOSE DAMN GAY FOLK AND THIER FORNICATIN'!!!!"

I hate WND.

hah...Yeah, if anyone doesn't wanna read the whole thing...those ^^ are the cliff notes.

[Brian4Liberty]

What if Ron Paul had said...

Sin is a religious concept. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". What is a sin to any given religious sect is irrelevant to the government, and to anyone who is not a member of that religious sect.

Discrimination against minorities has become a government issue. Consensus and established precedent says that discrimination is wrong, and against the law.

[idiom]

Um Constitution says, the army can't billet its soliders wherever it wants. Other than that the army can largely make up its own rules.

You don't have a right to be in the Army.

[AggieforPaul]

I love that the religious right is so passionate about stopping abortions, but I feel like they lose some of their credibility when they speak so negatively about homosexuality. I wish they;d focus more on issues that matter.

[Join The Paul Side]

I can't stand self righteous Christian posers using my religion to justify their intolerance and hate.

All sin is an abomination to God. All sin. Not just homosexuality. And every sin is forgivable. The only sin that the bible says is unforgivable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:28 "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

I'm sorry to inform the gay haters, but that verse includes homosexuals whether you like it or not. I think many homophobe Christians need to stop worrying how people choose to live their lives and start practicing what Jesus taught.

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

Matthew 19:19 "Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. "

[idiom]

But what does it have to do with the army?

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

Interview -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIeW0DY64bE

[speciallyblend]

and the sun comes up everyday!

[Pennsylvania]

mconder, I was under the impression that the LDS church was not especially accepting of gays but you've surprised me by posting this. (No I'm not referring to that mormon gulag or anything like that) I just mean I've heard even in everyday conversations that this was the case. Do your views represent a majority or a minority of LDS members?

[Truth Warrior]

and the sun comes up everyday! No it doesn't. :rolleyes: The Earth revolves.

Reality ROCKS and RULES! :D

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

. . . the apostle Paul slams the practice of how "men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly ..." (Romans 1:26).

Glad to know I'm useful for something. Now, if only I could think of a way to get paid . . .

[Peace&Freedom]

Not exactly.

The definition of murder is the unlawful killing of somebody with intent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Obviously the government decides what is or is not lawful. So when God allegedly delivered the 10 commandments to Moses, was he really leaving it up to governments to decide what is and is not a sin?


The powers of government are delegated to it from the people, and the powers and rights of people come from God. Whatever the government has a right to do, people have the right to do, since the government's authority is downstream of the people's. If people have the right to kill in self defense, so does the state (in punishing certain criminals or defending against war. Government thus does not decide what is a sin, or moral and religious, but it is supposed to reflect a moral and religious people.

[0zzy]

The bible says a lot of things these people practice daily.

Eat certain seafood and food, drink alcohol, etc etc. All sins are equal under the eyes of God, apparently, least what I heard. People get anal over Paul because of this? They have no time on their hands.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Why is WeirdNutDaily pulling up random articles from August 2007 to attack Ron Paul in February 2009, in a non-election year at that?

[Malakai]

Of course Paul's position is both reasonable and IMO is how a Christian should feel about their fellow people gay or otherwise.
I'm agnostic but historically Jesus' teachings were all about peace and loving each other. He never would have advocated discrimination.
This 'christian nation' would probably be considered quite evil (or at least its government) from Jesus' point of view.
Sad the Jews in Israel are 'gods chosen people' according to everyone and they are waging war on people who have no means to really fight back.