Question for anarchists: Why are you supporting Ron Paul?

[Rael]

Why are there so many anarchists on this board? Not that I mind you being here or anything :D. But if you don't believe in government how can you support ANY political candidate? Does this not contradict your principles? Or are you being practical/incremental? That seems unlikely as many anarchists seem unwilling to compromise whatsoever because they don't want to violate their principles.

[Conza88]

Are Libertarians 'Anarchists'? by Murray N. Rothbard (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard167.html)

There is only one anarchist on this board. Josh_la. Pretends not to be a socialist, but traditionally all anarchists are. Josh is just pissed the state protects private property, and he gets put in jail if he steals it himself. He just wants to be able to steal it with no consequences.

If you re-direct your question, i.e why are there so many anarhco-capitalists on this board?

Because it;s the LOGICAL conclusion of Libertarianism. Non aggression axiom + private property rights. The state violates BOTH.

And throughout the history of man. The growth of the state, or government has not remained limited. Collectivists gravitate towards power, it is natural. They want to impose their rule on others. And then they do so. The Unconstitutional just takes longer.

Why support Ron Paul? Because he is spreading the message, he's woken millions and millions of people up world wide. A new generation is out there, who has seen his idealism and remarkable stature.

There are several proposed methods of bringing about the destruction of the state. Education is fire and foremost. IF practically EVERYBODY rejected the need for the state tomorrow, if everyone chose to ignore it's actions, not enforce them etc. It would crumble.

It is not Utopian. That requires a change in human nature. What we need is for people to realise what is in their best interest. Some think supporting politicians etc is contradictory as you stated. And I would agree - unless they are Ron Paul or just like him, amazing.

Reagan doesn't count, nor any fck stain in the false left / right paradigm. Both fail remarkably. But when someone like RP comes along, he furthers the cause remarkably. I'm for more liberty in anyway it can be got (without breaking the non aggression axiom and private property rights)...

As you will note; the "anarchists" have no problem with it. Since they are socialists. :rolleyes:

Taxation is theft. Income tax is slavery. etc etc. Who would compromise for the Leviathan? :eek:

[Truth Warrior]

"An anarchist is anyone who believes in less government than you do." -- Robert LeFevre



Maybe only because Ron probably believes in less government than you do. ;) :)

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Simply put, It's not that anarchists don't want government, we just don't NEED government. Our involvement is a direct response to those of you who need government. The ideal government is one that controls those of you that need it and leaves the rest of us alone. The only way this will ever happen is if anarchist have some say in the way things are going.

[UnReconstructed]

Ron Paul is a closet anarchist. He will come out of the closet once he is done trying to dismantle it from the inside.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why are there so many anarchists on this board? Not that I mind you being here or anything :D. But if you don't believe in government how can you support ANY political candidate? Does this not contradict your principles? Or are you being practical/incremental? That seems unlikely as many anarchists seem unwilling to compromise whatsoever because they don't want to violate their principles.

Just a short term solution for a long term problem. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

Simply put, It's not that anarchists don't want government, we just don't NEED government. Our involvement is a direct response to those of you who need government. The ideal government is one that controls those of you that need it and leaves the rest of us alone. The only way this will ever happen is if anarchist have some say in the way things are going.

Well said. I agree. +1 :D

[heavenlyboy34]

Taxation is theft. Income tax is slavery. etc etc. Who would compromise for the Leviathan? :eek:

Republicrats, of course! :p:mad::(

You're brill (sl., "brilliant"), Conza. :D:)

[Arklatex]

We need a jerk in the anarchy direction wouldn't you say? Keep in mind a strong jerk towards anarchy would only change our course a couple degrees. The entire nation is socialist and doesn't realize it, like when a solution is too acidic you need to add a strong alkaline just to move it a few degrees towards neutrality. Get my drift?

Most here are statesmen and believe in a very limited federal government, compared to the majority we are "the anarchists."

[pcosmar]

I am NOT an Anarchist, Though I have been accused here and elsewhere of being one.

I am an Angry American,
I do believe that some Government is both necessary and prudent, however I also believe that it should be severely limited and locally controlled.

[David A. Gay, Sr.]

Ron Paul is a closet anarchist. He will come out of the closet once he is done trying to dismantle it from the inside.

That's my reason for supporting Ron Paul.

Aptly put.

[Truth Warrior]

We need a jerk in the anarchy direction wouldn't you say? Keep in mind a strong jerk towards anarchy would only change our course a couple degrees. The entire nation is socialist and doesn't realize it, like then a solution is too acidic you need to add a strong alkaline just to move it a few degrees towards neutrality. Get my drift?

Most here are statesmen and believe in a very limited federal government, compared to the majority we are "the anarchists." Absolutely, I catch your drift. ZERO must be the target. Otherwise the growth just continues. ;)

[David A. Gay, Sr.]

Ron Paul is a closet anarchist. He will come out of the closet once he is done trying to dismantle it from the inside.

Why else was Lew Rockwell his Chief of Staff for a number of years?

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul is a closet anarchist. He will come out of the closet once he is done trying to dismantle it from the inside.
That's why he's working on his 11th term as a Congressman. Uh huh.


Why else was Lew Rockwell his Chief of Staff for a number of years?

Perhaps because he is his best friend and he trusts him.

[Truth Warrior]

Being a Congressman, provides Ron with a national platform and public forum for his ideas, which a doctor from Texas, probably would not otherwise have.<IMHO> ;) :)

[1000-points-of-fright]

Why are there so many anarchists on this board? Not that I mind you being here or anything :D. But if you don't believe in government how can you support ANY political candidate? Does this not contradict your principles? Or are you being practical/incremental? That seems unlikely as many anarchists seem unwilling to compromise whatsoever because they don't want to violate their principles.

Because if they're smart and thoughtful anarchists they realize that we can't go from 100% government to 0% government in one day.

As Penn Jillette said to Glenn Beck... let's just work together for a constitutionally limited government and after we have it then we can argue about anarcho-capitalism.

I'm paraphrasing of course.

[Xenophage]

I want to have Penn Jillette's babies.

[Rael]

Basically what you are all saying seems to be that you are taking a Fabian Society approach. I think that's a good way to achieve your goals, but am a bit surprised after talking to many anarchists who oppose anything short of immediate government abolition.

[jmlfod87]

That's why he's working on his 11th term as a Congressman. Uh huh.



Perhaps because he is his best friend and he trusts him.


LMAO, all of Ron Paul's friends are anarchists. He runs for congress as a means of abolishing all government institutions. You dont have to be violent to be an anarchist, especially not a rothbardian anarchocapitalist.

[penguin]

I thought a rise in anarchists always happens just before a violent regime change, eg soviet union, nazi germany, cuba, etc. I mean historically speaking of course.

[Athan]

Why are there so many anarchists on this board? Not that I mind you being here or anything :D. But if you don't believe in government how can you support ANY political candidate? Does this not contradict your principles? Or are you being practical/incremental? That seems unlikely as many anarchists seem unwilling to compromise whatsoever because they don't want to violate their principles.

I'm not an anarchist but I see why President Paul is thee candidate to support for small state. He makes rational truthful arguments to cut the massive size of government where later more cuts can easily be made to wind it down even further. Anarchists generally want nonviolent anarchy and President Paul is the only person who can show the way towards it.

[mediahasyou]

Ron Paul was a libertarian. libertarians can be anarchists.

[RedStripe]

The state is the largest and most successful criminal enterprise ever developed. Yes, I am an anarchist.

[Conza88]

Basically what you are all saying seems to be that you are taking a Fabian Society approach. I think that's a good way to achieve your goals, but am a bit surprised after talking to many anarchists who oppose anything short of immediate government abolition.

No, not really. Gradualism is perpetuity in practice.

Left and Right: The Prospects for Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard33.html)
A Letter to Liberals by Leo Tolstoy (http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder/snyder14.html)
Do You Hate the State? by Murray N. Rothbardl (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard75.htm)
On the Impossibility of Limited Government and the Prospects for a Second American Revolution by Hoppe (http://mises.org/Controls/Media/MediaPlayer.aspx?Id=3558)
Strategy: Secession, Privatization, and the Prospects of Liberty by Hoppe (http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/hoppe/10.mp3)
What Must Be Done by Hoppe (http://mises.org/MultiMedia/mp3/bankruptcy97/07_Bankruptcy_Hoppe.mp3)
How America Can Be Saved by Hoppe (http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/Freedom96/07_Freedom_Hoppe.mp3)
A Strategy for Liberty by Rothbard (http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audiobooks/rothbard/foranewliberty/15.mp3)
Ethics of Liberty - by Murray Rothbard. 30. Toward a Theory of Strategy for Liberty (http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audiobooks/rothbard/EthicsofLiberty/5-30.mp3)


Ron Paul was a libertarian. libertarians can be anarchists.

No they can't. They can be NON-archists though. :p ;)

Read the Rothbard article :D

[heavenlyboy34]

The state is the largest and most successful criminal enterprise ever developed. Yes, I am an anarchist.

Yayy!! Another Anarchist to buddy with on RPF! :D

[heavenlyboy34]

Why are there so many anarchists on this board? Not that I mind you being here or anything :D. But if you don't believe in government how can you support ANY political candidate? Does this not contradict your principles? Or are you being practical/incremental? That seems unlikely as many anarchists seem unwilling to compromise whatsoever because they don't want to violate their principles.

Only because RP provides a good intermediary step from statism to autarchy. He's a great teacher. He just needs to stop being so danged moderate. ;) (just playin, Ron...in case you read this :))

[Andrew-Austin]

Maybe because he at least recognizes the government as evil.

What has Ron achieved by being a Congressman anyways, in terms of passing laws and such. Its all just education, and being there to oppose the State. The guy is kinda what Socrates was to the Athenians. Evil would charge him of corrupting young minds, but really hes just pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.

[AutoDas]

If the 2008 Presidential Election is anything to go by then the State won't shrink during any of our lifetimes. Ron Paul is the only one in Congress that understands that Austrian philosophy is necessary to freeing yourself from the system.

[LibertyEagle]

LMAO, all of Ron Paul's friends are anarchists.

LMAO right back at you. No, not ALL of Ron Paul's friends are anarchists. :rolleyes: Why on earth do you think that? For one, he's been the poster boy of the John Birch Society since he first went to Congress in the 70's.


He runs for congress as a means of abolishing all government institutions.
Have any proof of that? Because I'd like to see it. Because what he has been talking about for over 30 years is the need to reinstate the Constitution. That sure doesn't sound like an anarchist to me.


You dont have to be violent to be an anarchist, especially not a rothbardian anarchocapitalist.
I realize that and have nothing against those who are. But, that doesn't make Ron Paul one.

[Young Paleocon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't permanent anarchy unachievable? People seek groups for protection, groups turn into gangs, a few become dominant, and tyranny begins. This gets the ball rolling for government and man's historical conflict with the state. I might have generalized somewhere or something so correct away peeps.

[Rael]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't permanent anarchy unachievable? People seek groups for protection, groups turn into gangs, a few become dominant, and tyranny begins. This gets the ball rolling for government and man's historical conflict with the state. I might have generalized somewhere or something so correct away peeps.


That sounds about right to me.

[Conza88]

That sounds about right to me.

Nay. How would the state have been removed in the first place?

Rejected by the people. What is the state? A monopoly of violence over a given territory.

In anarcho-capitalism there would be private security firms, backed by insurance companies, private law courts etc.

You simply reject the office that is calling for a monopoly of violence. And when the so called "new found state" comes marching in, it has a body of private organizations that are going to refuse them access to their resources etc. Refuse to give them taxation etc.

How is the state going to fund itself? Taxation. Who is going to get taxation, force you to pay? The 'state'. WELL now, they state has to meet the private org you are employing to keep them from entering your property etc. :rolleyes:

It all comes down to private law.

[Truth Warrior]

Basically what you are all saying seems to be that you are taking a Fabian Society approach. I think that's a good way to achieve your goals, but am a bit surprised after talking to many anarchists who oppose anything short of immediate government abolition. We, as a species, should have outgrown the FAILED concept of government, centuries ago.<IMHO> We have not. It's a choice. Should government be abolished? Yes. How and when? That's still being worked out. It better be PDQ. Before the governments of the world manage to finally kill us all.

http://www.peterrussell.com/Odds/WorldClock.php (http://www.peterrussell.com/Odds/WorldClock.php)

[PitViper]

Sometimes I think that when people hear “anarchism” they then think of “no government (at all)” and they imagine total chaos. :eek:

This couldn’t be further from the truth (IMHO). The truth is that there IS in fact a “government” in a perfect Anarchic system. For each Individual “governs” himself. Thus the sum total of all of these self governing cells is one harmonious self governing unit. No different than the human body, how all its independent cells create one efficient organism, no different than how nature, from the microscopic organisms to the giant whales, all operate in a titanic harmonious system – with No Government other than their Own free Will.
It is the most efficient system possible, it is the will of nature. All unnatural things cannot withstand the test of time – It is inevitable that the Final governance of man be an exact reflection of nature – thus “natural”.
Is nature in total chaos? I know I’m retarded but it looks pretty ordered/organized and efficient to me! :D
Is nature lawless? Do some animals run around stealing from others? YES! But alot of them get there @$$ handed to them!
Do animals pointlessly slaughter each other? Only for food - and we humans (well, most of us) do not eat humans, so one would think that there is no need to kill humans . . . however, we succeed in killing ourselves far more than any animal, and it isn't even for food. At least animals justify it! :D
Furthermore, this senseless slaughter takes place under "Government". So, with senseless slaughter already occurring, I don't understand why anyone would be afraid to move away from such a system, and/or consider it "Worse" by doing so. :confused:

I am all for individual governance. But for efficiency and common interest purposes, I do advocate a small "government" but only to add form to the "cells". Such as the difference between the amorphous slime mold, and the structured human body. :)

Unfortunately, I am therefore guilty of a tiny compromise with "government" :(
ACK I am tainted! :D *cough* *gag**jumps into decontamination shower*

But it would only be to streamline and strengthen the Individual. I think this forum, with all this free debate, takes a step in that direction.

[heavenlyboy34]

Thanks for contributing. :D I hope your comments have made our "archist" friends think about their strategery. ;):):o


Sometimes I think that when people hear “anarchism” they then think of “no government (at all)” and they imagine total chaos. :eek:

This couldn’t be further from the truth (IMHO). The truth is that there IS in fact a “government” in a perfect Anarchic system. For each Individual “governs” himself. Thus the sum total of all of these self governing cells is one harmonious self governing unit. No different than the human body, how all its independent cells create one efficient organism, no different than how nature, from the microscopic organisms to the giant whales, all operate in a titanic harmonious system – with No Government other than their Own free Will.
It is the most efficient system possible, it is the will of nature. All unnatural things cannot withstand the test of time – It is inevitable that the Final governance of man be an exact reflection of nature – thus “natural”.
Is nature in total chaos? I know I’m retarded but it looks pretty ordered/organized and efficient to me! :D
Is nature lawless? Do some animals run around stealing from others? YES! But alot of them get there @$$ handed to them!
Do animals pointlessly slaughter each other? Only for food - and we humans (well, most of us) do not eat humans, so one would think that there is no need to kill humans . . . however, we succeed in killing ourselves far more than any animal, and it isn't even for food. At least animals justify it! :D
Furthermore, this senseless slaughter takes place under "Government". So, with senseless slaughter already occurring, I don't understand why anyone would be afraid to move away from such a system, and/or consider it "Worse" by doing so. :confused:

I am all for individual governance. But for efficiency and common interest purposes, I do advocate a small "government" but only to add form to the "cells". Such as the difference between the amorphous slime mold, and the structured human body.

Unfortunately, I am therefore guilty of a tiny compromise with "government"
ACK I am tainted! *cough* *gag**jumps into decontamination shower*

But it would only be to streamline and strengthen the Individual. I think this forum, with all this free debate, takes a step in that direction.

[ChaosControl]

I was called one the other day but I consider myself a minarchist.
Anarchists though would support him since he is for the least government of any legitimate candidate.

[yoshimaroka]

I thought a rise in anarchists always happens just before a violent regime change, eg soviet union, nazi germany, cuba, etc. I mean historically speaking of course.

This is true.

Yuri Bezmenov explained that those seeking power in the new regime always use every possible movement that opposes the current State rather than opposing them because of their political orientation. video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnCEhrpRNbk

Actually he got that from Sun Tzu.

[idiom]

Because if they're smart and thoughtful anarchists they realize that we can't go from 100% government to 0% government in one day.

You can, but not without violating the non-aggression axiom :(