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mconder
02-05-2009, 01:01 PM
Is it like Earth week or something? My kids are coming home with all sorts of Enviro propaganda. My oldest is in high school and has been asked to report on Obama's Energy Plan and then offer up her own Energy Plan. I can't let this opportunity pass to teach my child and keep their minds pure and free. Any ideas? What would you do?

Crash Martinez
02-05-2009, 01:02 PM
ummmm.... homeschool?

brandon
02-05-2009, 01:04 PM
+1 to homeschool

But whatever you do, just make sure you explain to her obama's energy plan includes stealinng money from people (taxes).

fr33domfightr
02-05-2009, 01:10 PM
+1 to homeschool

But whatever you do, just make sure you explain to her obama's energy plan includes stealinng money from people (taxes).

Yes, explain all the details. If Obama wants to give tax credits, explain that the money needs to come from other taxpayers, or printed, in which case all taxpayers are given this debt.

I would use it as a real learning tool.



FF

Danke
02-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Nucular.

:)

PatriotLegion
02-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Nuclear Power! Hands down the cheapest and most efficient energy, and hey gets jobs out there too....

But I agree school has always taught conformism and never let kids be different or be an individual and "against the grain was always frowned upon."

I could imagine all of the BO propaganda going on in schools today, sicking...

DUH! - had the same idea Danke, was typing my post too about Nuclear!

No1ButPaul08
02-05-2009, 01:18 PM
My Energy Plan would look like this. I'm not sure what exactly Obama's energy plan specifics are, but I'm sure he's promising energy independence, just like THE LAST 7 PRESIDENTS.

Eliminate the Department of Energy. Government "solutions" usually benefit the well connected corporations and Iowa farmers whom Presidential candidates pander to as they have the first caucus. The government is as good at forming energy policy as they are at delivering mail.

Eliminate energy subsidies. Subsidies divert money from one source to another in a not so efficient manner. The biggest subsidy of all is our military adventurism in the middle east. Without this, we would find the true price of oil allowing other forms of energy to compete if there is a market. There are also ethanol subsidies to the Iowa farmers mentioned above that have basically wasted money trying to find a biofuel

Lighten up the Nuclear Power regulations. A nuclear power plant hasn't been built in the US in a long time. This is due to big government regulation. France get 90% of its power from Nuclear Power.

Lighten up the Oil regulations. Like Nuclear, it is very hard nowadays to get in the oil business.

Legalize Hemp. Hemp is a better source of ethanol than corn, and is a very clean source of energy.

The biggest point to make is that the government shouldn't play favorites in the energy business. Eliminate subsidies and burdensome regulations and the real market for energy will emerge.

dannno
02-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Make the energy plan based on the free market and private property rights. This will be a great way to educate the teacher and the class.

The first platform should be to stop subsidizing oil. We spend almost a trillion dollars a year maintaining our empire overseas which ensures us a consistent supply of crude. But this comes at a cost of about $2,800 per individual annually. That doesn't include foreign aid. If we ended our overseas empire, this $2,800 is money that each individual would have to spend on other forms of energy, at no cost. On average, a household of three would have an additional $8,400 per year to spend investing in alternative energies. This could easily be used to pay a 5 year loan on a phat solar system for the household, which would likely have enough energy to charge an electric car or two.

This subsidizing of crude has caused an addiction in our country, and most people agree that the addiction must stop. When we stop subsidizing oil, then oil prices will inevitably go up giving rise to new alternative energies that are currently more expensive. People demand energy, and financial and capital infrastructure is designed to provide us with the cheapest energy possible, which is oil, but only due to subsidies via our military and foreign aid which comes from tax money.

If our country began the practice of protecting private property rights once again, then it would be illegal for companies to pollute the groundwater, air or other's land. This would create demand for greener and cleaner technologies. We could afford these technologies because we aren't spending $2,800 per year per individual on our overseas empire. Banks would finance them because they will inevitably become cheaper than oil. The court systems will stop pollution from occurring. The free market with property rights at it's core has an answer for everything.

People mistakenly believe that Private Property rights gives the property owner the right to do what they wish with the land. What people have forgotten is that this also means the property owner is liable and responsible for what they do with their land, in how it affects others' property.

angelatc
02-05-2009, 01:20 PM
I hate nuclear because there is no way to deal with the waste. Putting it in a big hole in the ground so our grandkids can deal with it when the containers start leaking isn't a viable solution.

I would mention that the best power plan is the free market. Putting money into green technology isn't productive. Let prices on natural resources rise, and when they get h igh enough the market will develop viable solutions, no intervention necessary.

PatriotLegion
02-05-2009, 01:26 PM
I hate nuclear because there is no way to deal with the waste. Putting it in a big hole in the ground so our grandkids can deal with it when the containers start leaking isn't a viable solution.

I would mention that the best power plan is the free market. Putting money into green technology isn't productive. Let prices on natural resources rise, and when they get h igh enough the market will develop viable solutions, no intervention necessary.

Nah, blast it off into space. Problem solved! ;)

Hehe I mean seriously when are we going to go beyond the moon, let alone back on it???

nobody's_hero
02-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Easy:

Obama's plan is unconstitutional. Energy is not a federal concern.

angelatc
02-05-2009, 01:31 PM
Nah, blast it off into space. Problem solved! ;)

Hehe I mean seriously when are we going to go beyond the moon, let alone back on it???

What happens when a cannister goes all Challenger on the way out though?

I don't know why we need to go back to the moon unless we're going to *really* plant the flag.

Mesogen
02-05-2009, 01:36 PM
I hate nuclear because there is no way to deal with the waste.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127131654.htm

Physicists at The University of Texas at Austin have designed a new system that, when fully developed, would use fusion to eliminate most of the transuranic waste produced by nuclear power plants.

The scientists propose destroying the waste using a fusion-fission hybrid reactor, the centerpiece of which is a high power Compact Fusion Neutron Source (CFNS) made possible by a crucial invention.

dannno
02-05-2009, 01:46 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127131654.htm

Physicists at The University of Texas at Austin have designed a new system that, when fully developed, would use fusion to eliminate most of the transuranic waste produced by nuclear power plants.

The scientists propose destroying the waste using a fusion-fission hybrid reactor, the centerpiece of which is a high power Compact Fusion Neutron Source (CFNS) made possible by a crucial invention.


The process would ultimately reduce the transuranic waste from the original fission reactors by up to 99 percent. Burning that waste also produces energy.


Wowzers.


So we could reduce our waste from 77,000 tons down to 770 tons. That could almost fit in a space ship.

Mesogen
02-05-2009, 02:21 PM
Up to.... ;)

Uriel999
02-05-2009, 02:27 PM
Nucular.

:)

lmao.

torchbearer
02-05-2009, 02:33 PM
Nah, blast it off into space. Problem solved! ;)

Hehe I mean seriously when are we going to go beyond the moon, let alone back on it???


You can just send it into the sun.
Problem is, rockets aren't very safe.
What happens when one misfires with a bunch of nuclear waste in it.

There lies the problem.


I still think nuclear is viable...
Ocean tidal movement can be very useful.

AutoDas
02-05-2009, 02:37 PM
The Ultimate Alternative Energy (http://www.dailyreckoning.com/the-ultimate-alternative-energy/): Thorium
By Patrick Cox

Danke
02-05-2009, 02:37 PM
You can just send it into the sun.
Problem is, rockets aren't very safe.
What happens when one misfires with a bunch of nuclear waste in it.

There lies the problem.


I still think nuclear is viable...
Ocean tidal movement can be very useful.

Nah, just bury it in Nevada.

What's the worst that could happen, Wayne Newton's hair falls out?

From what I have seen of Las Vegas (and especially Reno) it would be no loss to humanity if...

torchbearer
02-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Nah, just bury it in Nevada.

What's the worst that could happen, Wayne Newton's hair falls out?

From what I have seen of Las Vegas (and especially Reno) it would be no loss to humanity if...

D.C. Waste Disposal.

Danke
02-05-2009, 02:43 PM
D.C. Waste Disposal.

Good idea. Then I can get back to ice fishing and forget about all this Campaign for Liberty, etc. crap.

dannno
02-05-2009, 02:43 PM
D.C. Waste Disposal.

ftw

DirtMcGirt
02-05-2009, 02:54 PM
I heard a great argument against carbon credits, aka cap and trade today on Andrew Wilkow. XM 166 station. I would see if he has a podcast

Kludge
02-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Kill subsidies, kill taxes. Let the market handle the price. Keep buying gas, if you want to.

It's accepted that "progress" must be made. No one challenges it anymore, just make up ways to "solve" the "problem".

Andrew-Austin
02-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Have your kid at least say something like, "end all unnecessary foreign expenditures (Iraq occupation, war of terror, subsidizing other governments, etc) and use some of that money on alternative energy tech. 1. That is a concept a younger high school student can understand, 2. Its not something Obama would do since he is not anti-war, and 3. you won't have to write the paper yourself explaining why the government should not have an "energy plan" in the first place.

The subject is not whether the government should have an energy plan, its what should it be. Or you could do what others have suggested and go all out with the free market response. Writing your kids paper for them though, is not letting them have a 'mind of their own'. Perhaps make suggestions and let your kid write his/her own paper, then write your own version as well and share it with them.

mconder
02-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Nah, blast it off into space. Problem solved!

Really. You'd think I black hole could dispose of the stuff nicely.

mconder
02-05-2009, 03:17 PM
Writing your kids paper for them though, is not letting them have a 'mind of their own'.

Kids don't have minds of their own at this age. They latch on to the first person who will fill their empty heads, which is usually their socialist teachers. So, I feel quite comfortable programming my kids to be freedom minded individuals giving them a solid foundation to face this change agents. It is my responsibility to give me kids a heritage.

mconder
02-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Obama's plan is unconstitutional. Energy is not a federal concern.

Sure it is....interstate commerce, right? They have to promote the general welfare, right? What if one state makes energy but only shares it with certain select states. What if one state pollutes another with lax environmental laws and prosecution?

I'm just playing Devils advocate. The problem with helping my daughter with this is I am going to have to help her justify why this is unconstitutional, why foreign intervention is wrong, why the free market can make better energy decisions. These are all very complex topics and unless I provide salid explanations, my daughter will be opened to ridicule by the teacher. You know how it is.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
02-05-2009, 03:21 PM
Hemp as Biomass for Energy (http://fuelandfiber.com/Hemp4NRG/Hemp4NRGRV3.htm)

satchelmcqueen
02-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Nah, blast it off into space. Problem solved! ;)

Hehe I mean seriously when are we going to go beyond the moon, let alone back on it???

agreed. blast everything into space. its not like itll ever come back if what they say is true.

nobody's_hero
02-05-2009, 06:01 PM
I'm just playing Devils advocate. The problem with helping my daughter with this is I am going to have to help her justify why this is unconstitutional, why foreign intervention is wrong, why the free market can make better energy decisions. These are all very complex topics and unless I provide salid explanations, my daughter will be opened to ridicule by the teacher. You know how it is.

Yeah, I know. :(

It would be hard to explain a federally instituted energy plan without going into a digression about the power struggle between the people and the State. Thomas Jefferson said it best:


"The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed" - Thomas Jefferson, 1791

Kludge
02-05-2009, 06:04 PM
Make the white people run in giant hamster wheels, with produced energy converted into electricity, to repay their ancestral debts to racial minorities.

I'd be interested in the teacher's comments.

HOLLYWOOD
02-05-2009, 06:12 PM
The department off Energy spends over $20 BILLION a year on NUCLEAR WEAPONS/Sustaining, R&D, R&R, etc. The US has approximate 11,000 nukes, 6,000 active and 3,500 "HOT". A waste of money.



My Energy Plan would look like this. I'm not sure what exactly Obama's energy plan specifics are, but I'm sure he's promising energy independence, just like THE LAST 7 PRESIDENTS.

Eliminate the Department of Energy. Government "solutions" usually benefit the well connected corporations and Iowa farmers whom Presidential candidates pander to as they have the first caucus. The government is as good at forming energy policy as they are at delivering mail.


Here's the link to see the appropriations of the DOE.

http://www.cfo.doe.gov/budget/09budget/Content/Highlights/Highlight2009.pdf (http://www.cfo.doe.gov/budget/09budget/Content/Highlights/Highlight2009.pdf)


The only latest development to come out the DOE was the Lithium-Ion Battery, developed at the Oak Ridge facility near Knoxville, TN

2009 Dept of Energy budget


Uranium enrichment D&D fund......................................... 556,606 622,162 480,333 -141,829 -22.8%
Energy information administration.................................... 90,653 95,460 110,595 +15,135 +15.9%
Non-Defense environmental cleanup............................... 349,687 182,263 213,411 +31,148 +17.1%
Science........................................... .................................. 3,836,613 3,973,142 4,721,969 +748,827 +18.8%
Nuclear waste disposal.......................................... ........... 99,206 187,269 247,371 +60,102 +32.1%
Departmental administration.................................... ......... 147,943 148,415 154,827 +6,412 +4.3%
Inspector general........................................... ................... 41,819 46,057 51,927 +5,870 +12.7%
Innovative technology loan guarantee program............... —— 4,459 —— -4,459 -100.0%
Total, Energy Programs.......................................... ............. 8,042,345 9,019,929 9,350,399 +330,470 +3.7%
Atomic Energy Defense Activities
National nuclear security administration:
Weapons activities........................................ ................. 6,258,583 6,297,466 6,618,079 +320,613 +5.1%
Defense nuclear nonproliferation.................................. . 1,824,202 1,335,996 1,247,048 -88,948 -6.7%
Naval reactors.......................................... ...................... 781,800 774,686 828,054 +53,368 +6.9%
Office of the administrator..................................... ......... 358,291 402,137 404,081 +1,944 +0.5%
Total, National nuclear security administration................. 9,222,876 8,810,285 9,097,262 +286,977 +3.3%
Environmental and other defense activities:
Defense environmental cleanup.................................... 5,731,240 5,349,325 5,297,256 -52,069 -1.0%
Other defense activities........................................ ......... 636,271 754,359 1,313,461 +559,102 +74.1%
Defense nuclear waste disposal.................................... 346,500 199,171 247,371 +48,200 +24.2%
Total, Environmental & other defense activities............... 6,714,011 6,302,855 6,858,088 +555,233 +8.8%
Total, Atomic Energy Defense Activities............................. 15,936,887 15,113,140 15,955,350 +842,210 +5.6%

slothman
02-05-2009, 06:12 PM
Nuclear Power! Hands down the cheapest and most efficient energy, and hey gets jobs out there too....
But I agree school has always taught conformism and never let kids be different or be an individual and "against the grain was always frowned upon."

Other plants also get jobs.
I am for nuclear though, and clean coal.
I read in several places that the US has enough coal to satisfy it's need for over 50 years, even with moderate increases.

I am for "opening" their eyes but not just to free market; also to "socialized" as well.

Danke
02-05-2009, 10:26 PM
Make the white people run in giant hamster wheels, with produced energy converted into electricity, to repay their ancestral debts to racial minorities.

I'd be interested in the teacher's comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrX9Ca7LSyQ

The_Orlonater
02-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Kids don't have minds of their own at this age. They latch on to the first person who will fill their empty heads, which is usually their socialist teachers. So, I feel quite comfortable programming my kids to be freedom minded individuals giving them a solid foundation to face this change agents. It is my responsibility to give me kids a heritage.

I don't have a mind of my own? Well I guess it's time to pack my bags and leave Ron Paul forums and become a good obamabot.

Andrew-Austin
02-05-2009, 11:20 PM
I don't have a mind of my own? Well I guess it's time to pack my bags and leave Ron Paul forums and become a good obamabot.

lol, yes just give in to the dark side. Your surroundings in a Obama-sheep infested public school have determined you to become one yourself.


Kids don't have minds of their own at this age. They latch on to the first person who will fill their empty heads, which is usually their socialist teachers. So, I feel quite comfortable programming my kids to be freedom minded individuals giving them a solid foundation to face this change agents. It is my responsibility to give me kids a heritage.

What grade is your teen in? I'd argue its your responsibility to counter any bullshit political view a teacher tried to spoon feed them, and to help grow your teen's critical thinking skills, but not necessarily to inculcate them with your own views. Teachers will spend the whole class period saying "this is how it it so memorize it and move on", and its not that great of an idea in my opinion to mimic this same model of teaching.

jbrace
02-05-2009, 11:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/05/kellogg.phelps/index.html

I think this is bullshit

Bman
02-05-2009, 11:52 PM
Is it like Earth week or something? My kids are coming home with all sorts of Enviro propaganda. My oldest is in high school and has been asked to report on Obama's Energy Plan and then offer up her own Energy Plan. I can't let this opportunity pass to teach my child and keep their minds pure and free. Any ideas? What would you do?

Well. I'd say to research hemp for ethanol but this could create an undesired effect.

Yeah like someone else said, I'd show the money trail and then explain how a free market system would work best. Maybe explain some silly stuff like how much it would cost a person to privatly buy solar panels and the cost over time benefactors and things of that nature.