[Bureaucracy] Government creates "Comprehensive Cleared" Watchlist

[Knightskye]

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/02/house-approves.html

Please fill out form 1058b in triplicate and return it to the Department of Homeland Security, to prove you are not a terrorist. Then you will be added to our Comprehensive Cleared non-terrorist watchlist. Please check the box if you would like us not to use your information for marketing purposes.

:rolleyes:

[diggronpaul]

Please please Uncle Sam, don't send me to the re-education camps....

Obama is great
Obama is great
Obama is great


You see, I'm all better now.... please put me on that White List so I can buy food again.

Please!


Seriously folks, how long do you think it will be that you won't be able to work, eat, live, go to a damn movie if you're NOT on their stupid White Lists. If they would have tried this 100 years ago the people in this country would have burned DC to the ground. Now, we just go home to our TV sets.

[InterestedParticipant]

Appropriate excerpt from "The Law (http://www.pleasereadthelaw.com/index.php)" by Frederick Bastiat



The Fate of Non-Conformists

If you suggest a doubt as to the morality of these institutions, it is boldly said that "You are a dangerous innovator, a utopian, a theorist, a subversive; you would shatter the foundation upon which society rests."

.
.
.

Thus, if there exists a law which sanctions slavery or monopoly, oppression or robbery, in any form whatever, it must not even be mentioned. For how can it be mentioned without damaging the respect which it inspires? Still further, morality and political economy must be taught from the point of view of this law; from the supposition that it must be a just law merely because it is a law.

Why did Ron vote "Yea" on this bill? (see here (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll049.xml))

[Knightskye]

Why did Ron vote "Yea" on this bill? (see here (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll049.xml))

Maybe he thought a way to get yourself off the terrorist watchlist was better than none.

Could try sending him an e-mail.

[Real_CaGeD]

"Where are your papers comrade?!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwgHNtyD54

[zach]

"I voted for Obama, can I go now?" :rolleyes:

[newbitech]

That wired blog article is crap. From the article:

The House overwhelmingly adopted legislation this week mandating the creation of a new kind of terrorist watchlist: a database of people who aren't terrorists, but are routinely flagged at airports anyway.

It is not a "new kind of terrorist watchlist" and the mandate is very week considering the individual has the option to "opt out". What this bill does is sets the precedent for removing your name from the terrorist watch list if you are not a terrorist.

If you understand technology then this bill is easy to understand. Its not a "list". These are database entries. Its not a "new" list because the data will be stored in the same database. If you are flagged as a suspect in the database, you can then be un-flagged with the help of this bill. The next step logically is to have your name removed completely.

Do some research!

[Danke]

"Where are your papers comrade?!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwgHNtyD54

He sounds like Rush, but not as funny.

[diggronpaul]

It is not a "new kind of terrorist watchlist" and the mandate is very week considering the individual has the option to "opt out". What this bill does is sets the precedent for removing your name from the terrorist watch list if you are not a terrorist.

If you understand technology then this bill is easy to understand. Its not a "list". These are database entries. Its not a "new" list because the data will be stored in the same database. If you are flagged as a suspect in the database, you can then be un-flagged with the help of this bill. The next step logically is to have your name removed completely.

Do some research!
This is a good point, but one that is not fully explained. So, I will clarify the implications by example.

In this example, details about you, such as your name, address, eye color, education, work experience, affiliations, forum postings, etc., are logged in a database. While this database is far more complex than just a single row of data (i.e. it's actually a myriad of relational tables of data), where each of these details are recorded in their own field (or cell in a table), it's sufficient to imagine your record as simply a single row of data with each detail separated into its own column. Now, imagine that the last column is a detailed called flag, and this flag represents the color of the list you are currently on. So, initially, the gov't places approximately 1Million members of the public into this database and assigns them the color "black" in this flag column. Now, the gov't is proposing to:

convert the color of the flag from black to white for some the 1Million people already in the database;
add more people to the database and assign them a white flag.

Now the database has grown, we have people on it who are flagged black and some who are flagged white.

Let's roll a few years into the future and say that you are on the list. Let's also say that the government has, by this time, added a few more flag colors as options for categorizing people, colors such as "yellow, green, orange." You have gotten your details into the database and your flag has been set to yellow. You're not sure why, but it's yellow and you can't get it changed and you can't get off the list. Unfortunately, yellow only allows you to perform certain unskilled jobs, it only allows you to attend specific trade schools, and it does not allow you the ability to travel outside of North America or enter the cities of Chicago or Dallas. Your daughter has been able to obtain a green flag, and hence she is able to travel and live in Dallas and Chicago. In fact, she get a great job offer there in the environmental industry and it's just too good to turn down. Your daughter has children, your grandchildren. But if your daughter takes this job in Dallas you will only be able to visit your grandchildren when your daughter has time to fly home to visit, as you cannot enter Dallas because your yellow flag does not allow you to travel to Dallas. What are you supposed to do?

That's just one of a million examples. This is no different than Jews having to wear stars on their clothes so they could be easily identified, or having to have their arms tattooed with a code-number, so they could be recorded and cataloged.

This is a horrendous bill. I cannot believe that I am living to see the US Congress vote overwhelmingly for such legislation. I am also flabbergasted as to why Ron would vote Yea for such a proposal.

The impact of this legislation is just unthinkable. This is a framework for a draconian system that is beyond our wildest nightmares. How can a free sovereign being allowed themselves to be cataloged by the government is such a way? What's worse, is that this thread seems to have garnered little attention here. I'm extremely disappointed.

[diggronpaul]

Let's roll a few years into the future and say that you are on the list. Let's also say that the government has, by this time, added a few more flag colors as options for categorizing people, colors such as "yellow, green, orange." You have gotten your details into the database and your flag has been set to yellow. You're not sure why, but it's yellow and you can't get it changed and you can't get off the list. Unfortunately, yellow only allows you to perform certain unskilled jobs, it only allows you to attend specific trade schools, and it does not allow you the ability to travel outside of North America or enter the cities of Chicago or Dallas. Your daughter has been able to obtain a green flag, and hence she is able to travel and live in Dallas and Chicago. In fact, she get a great job offer there in the environmental industry and it's just too good to turn down. Your daughter has children, your grandchildren. But if your daughter takes this job in Dallas you will only be able to visit your grandchildren when your daughter has time to fly home to visit, as you cannot enter Dallas because your yellow flag does not allow you to travel to Dallas. What are you supposed to do?
A scenario very similar to this is played-out in the 2003 movie, Code 46 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345061/) (trailer (http://www.apple.com/trailers/mgm/code_46/)), with Tim Robbins.

[InterestedParticipant]

People on the White List will get to live inside this city and people on the Black List will be relegated to the destitution of the deserts outside this city - at least we are supposed to believe that these are our only options but we can imagine any future we desire.


http://www.blogimagehost.com/out.php/i3392_worthenough2500sm.jpg

[InterestedParticipant]

^^^^^^^^

[mediahasyou]

I've seen that artist before, what site is that from?

[InterestedParticipant]

I've seen that artist before, what site is that from?
http://radoxist.com/worth_enough.html