The smoking gun has always been right under our noses... prove it is NOT VOLUNTARY

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nt

[PatriotG]

Great read and thanks.

I hope you dont mind, I posted this in our forum.

[youngbuck]

The best book I've read on this subject is "The Biggest 'Tax Loophole' of All" by Otto Skinner. After reading that, you'll have no doubt whatsoever in your mind that you and I aren't liable for the so-called "income tax."

[Truth Warrior]

According to the US Congress FRNs ARE "lawful" currency. ;) :( :mad:

[wizardwatson]

I have proof that the Constitution is not voluntary. It's a little something called the civil war. It's much easier to argue against the Constitution itself rather than government officials not following it properly.

[Truth Warrior]

I have proof that the Constitution is not voluntary. It's a little something called the civil war. It's much easier to argue against the Constitution itself rather than government officials not following it properly.

The Illegality, Immorality, and Violence of All Political Action
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1537946&postcount=109 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1537946&postcount=109)


;)

[heavenlyboy34]

According to the US Congress FRNs ARE "lawful" currency. ;) :( :mad:

:mad::p:(

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nt

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nt

[sirgonzo420]

Nice post.... this topic should be brought up here MUCH more often.

[sirgonzo420]

Originally Posted by US v Rickman; 638 F.2d 182

In the exercise of that power Congress has declared that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender and are redeemable in lawful money.


Originally Posted by US v Ware; 608 F.2d 400

United States notes shall be lawful money, and a legal tender in payment of all debts, public and private, within the United States, except for duties on imports and interest on the public debt.


Did that help anyone?

[Zippyjuan]

I haven't gone through the whole thing but there are some errors in the first couple paragraphs about how the govermnemt gets money. The part about Congress deciding to spend money is correct. When they need money for spending they contact the Treasury- not the Fed. The Treasury then issues bonds or Treasury notes which are not deposited at the Fed but they are sold at an auction. The Fed may buy some of these but most are purchased by other investors. The Treasury has not printed the money from thin air neither has Congress. It has instead borrowed the money from investors.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

I haven't gone through the whole thing but there are some errors in the first couple paragraphs about how the govermnemt gets money. The part about Congress deciding to spend money is correct. When they need money for spending they contact the Treasury- not the Fed. The Treasury then issues bonds or Treasury notes which are not deposited at the Fed but they are sold at an auction. The Fed may buy some of these but most are purchased by other investors. The Treasury has not printed the money from thin air neither has Congress. It has instead borrowed the money from investors.

If you could help me out a little;
Treasury notes are backed by a promise to pay based on predicted tax revenue. Tax revenue is always in the form of Federal Reserve money.

So, even though FR money is private credit and we can get hamstrung by the IRS for using it, the only alternative is public money which is backed by Federal Reserve money anyway.

Is this accurate?

[Truth Warrior]

If you could help me out a little;
Treasury notes are backed by a promise to pay based on predicted tax revenue. Tax revenue is always in the form of Federal Reserve money.

So, even though FR money is private credit and we can get hamstrung by the IRS for using it, the only alternative is public money which is backed by Federal Reserve money anyway.

Is this accurate?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/legal%20tender (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/legal%20tender)

[Zippyjuan]

If you could help me out a little;
Treasury notes are backed by a promise to pay based on predicted tax revenue. Tax revenue is always in the form of Federal Reserve money.

So, even though FR money is private credit and we can get hamstrung by the IRS for using it, the only alternative is public money which is backed by Federal Reserve money anyway.

Is this accurate?

Our money is Federal Reserve notes. You can use Federal Reserve Notes or Federal Reserve Notes. Unless you are using electronic transactions (then you are exchanging bits and bytes) or barter.

[sirgonzo420]

Our money is Federal Reserve notes. You can use Federal Reserve Notes or Federal Reserve Notes. Unless you are using electronic transactions (then you are exchanging bits and bytes) or barter.

Or you can use *redeemed* FRNs which look the same, but have had the debt associated with them removed. They are public money instead of private credit.

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nt

[sirgonzo420]

It's not really about what the legal tender is.

It is about the fact that if using private credit creates a system of taxation that is not proportioned directly among the people then I do not want to use private credit currency.

But the key legal component that makes it binding is that use of private credit currency is voluntary.

Ok fine. If private credit is voluntary, which is why the supreme court has upheld the 16th amendment did not create a new tax.. then I do not want to voluntarily use private credit.

I would prefer to redeem any federal reserve notes in my possession into another legal tender. If I can do that fine I will not use federal reserve notes any more and take them out of circulation everytime I receive one.

However if I am unable to redeem federal reserve notes for lawful tender according to Title 12, Chapter 3, Sub Chatper 12, Section 411... well then my use of private currency is no longer voluntary.

I am then able to assert that I can not be penalized for voluntarily using a system of private credit that is not voluntary.


Also, using dollar coins is an alternative to using FRNs....


I believe that the dollar coins are considered public money and not private credit.

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nt