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View Full Version : Home foreclosure in New Mexico ends in shoot out.




Anti Federalist
02-02-2009, 03:15 PM
I'm not laughing, this isn't funny, and it will be all of us before this ends, but...

I couldn't help but think of the scene in O' Brother Where Art Thou? where they are approaching Cousin Washington Hogwallop's house and his boy takes a shot at them and asks:

"You men from the bank?! My Daddy said shoot whomsoever serving papers!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH6YIkAAD-U&NR=1)

2 Officers Injured in Shootout at New Mexico Home Facing Foreclosure (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486255,00.html)

Saturday, January 31, 2009

Two police officers were injured during a shootout as they tried to serve an eviction notice at a New Mexico home facing foreclosure, according to the Alamogordo Daily News.

The wounded deputies were hit by flying glass in the Friday night gunbattle after their windshield was shattered by bullets, said Otero County Sheriff's Deputy John Dalton. Someone inside the house was firing a weapon, he said.

The deputies' injuries were minor, according to the Albuquerque Journal.

SWAT teams swarmed the southern New Mexico house after officers serving the eviction papers about 11:15 a.m. Friday were met at the gate by gunfire.

"They were shooting at officers with rifles," Otero County Sheriff's Deputy John Dalton told the Daily News.

The standoff continued late Friday night and into the early morning hours Saturday. Officers negotiated with at least one man who refused to leave the home. They have not identified him or the other occupants of the house.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 03:30 PM
Looks like it ended about how we all would have predicted it would.

One man dead in eviction dispute.

http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_11601547?source=most_viewed

They had an unresponsive woman dragged from the house by the bomb robot.:eek: They are finding all kinda uses for those things.

danberkeley
02-02-2009, 03:34 PM
lol. why are cops so inept nowadays?

Anti Federalist
02-02-2009, 03:34 PM
Never defend a fixed position.

That being said, how long will it be before we stop driving by, going around the police checkpoints and being thankful, in a shamed way, "glad it wasn't me"?


Looks like it ended about how we all would have predicted it would.

One man dead in eviction dispute.

http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_11601547?source=most_viewed

They had an unresponsive woman dragged from the house by the bomb robot.:eek: They are finding all kinda uses for those things.

Nyte
02-02-2009, 04:05 PM
Never defend a fixed position.

That being said, how long will it be before we stop driving by, going around the police checkpoints and being thankful, in a shamed way, "glad it wasn't me"?

Probably when it IS us... :rolleyes:

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 04:07 PM
The shire reeve will die when he comes to enforce the king's edicts.
My wealth has been stolen by the very people i'm enslaved too.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Never defend a fixed position.

Quite right. You will be outmanned and outgunned in this day in time. 100 officers called in many of them SWAT. Guess he just reached a breaking point and wasn't thinking clearly.

I still don't have the whole story. The woman seems to have had a prior for assault with a deadly weapon by which she was acquitted by jury.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 04:17 PM
Quite right. You will be outmanned and outgunned in this day in time. 100 officers called in many of them SWAT. Guess he just reached a breaking point and wasn't thinking clearly.

I still don't have the whole story. The woman seems to have had a prior for assault with a deadly weapon by which she was acquitted by jury.

You should have a militia of friends who can pinch the police line.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 04:18 PM
http://slaveuprising.com/images/slaves.jpg

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 04:57 PM
You should have a militia of friends who can pinch the police line.

Not an option to all. Even if you had 100 militia friends they would just send 1,000 more law dogs. As any situation progresses you will become out-manned and outgunned in the governments need to quell the situation before rebellion spreads to the general populace.

I know many like to draw the line in the sand. If such and such happens I'm going down fighting. I think many need to re-evaluate. It will all be based on timing. It will do none of us any good if even one liberty lovin' patriot is lost without any gain.

Gain will be determined by how many of the disenfranchised can be drawn to the cause of liberty, not how many of the never ending sea of oppressors you take with you.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 04:59 PM
Not an option to all. Even if you had 100 militia friends they would just send 1,000 more law dogs. As any situation progresses you will become out-manned and outgunned in the governments need to quell the situation before rebellion spreads to the general populace.

I know many like to draw the line in the sand. If such and such happens I'm going down fighting. I think many need to re-evaluate. It will all be based on timing. It will do none of us any good if even one liberty lovin' patriot is lost without any gain.

Gain will be determined by how many of the disenfranchised can be drawn to the cause of liberty, not how many of the never ending sea of oppressors you take with you.

I'm thinking if enough people take a stand.. and enough officers die... the department will have to re-evaluate the plus/minus of evicting people.
I know if I was an officer, and that was happening everytime we were sent out.. i'd call in sick.
It wouldn't be worth my life to evict someone.

Anti Federalist
02-02-2009, 05:24 PM
I'm thinking if enough people take a stand.. and enough officers die... the department will have to re-evaluate the plus/minus of evicting people.
I know if I was an officer, and that was happening everytime we were sent out.. i'd call in sick.
It wouldn't be worth my life to evict someone.

+1776

When they hut hut into a situation, nobody is checking six.

A small team of good riflemen would wreak havoc.

Battle flag of The Three Percenters.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/SYUJy0MPMEI/AAAAAAAAAWc/wP0nN_LPADk/S240/3+flag.jpg

We're All Branch Davidians Now.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 05:35 PM
I'm thinking if enough people take a stand.. and enough officers die... the department will have to re-evaluate the plus/minus of evicting people.
I know if I was an officer, and that was happening everytime we were sent out.. i'd call in sick.
It wouldn't be worth my life to evict someone.

I agree that you, or I for that matter, would take that mental evaluation of the situation.

I don't put that kind of stock in members of the law enforcement communities. Look at Waco. I am not looking for debate of Waco etc. just pointing out what the government is willing to deploy.Four agents dead. Even if that had been fifty agents the enforcement community would roll tomorrow. Their scope is truly endless. Employed mercenaries like Blackwater would like nothing more than to get their rocks off any less than the average defender of the blue shield.

It is my belief, and I respect those that believe differently, that if you choose to take an entrenched stand in this environment at this time you will have wasted a resource in the fight for freedom. You will, however, have lived your life by the beliefs in freedom that we all hold dear. That is also an honorable way.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 05:38 PM
+1776

When they hut hut into a situation, nobody is checking six.

A small team of good riflemen would wreak havoc.

Battle flag of The Three Percenters.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/SYUJy0MPMEI/AAAAAAAAAWc/wP0nN_LPADk/S240/3+flag.jpg

We're All Branch Davidians Now.

I'm planning for a better outcome than the Davidians had.:D

Brooklyn Red Leg
02-02-2009, 05:41 PM
What we need are Sherriffs that state they will not be the Bank's enforcers. I'm just surprised it took this long before it happened that someone said 'fuck off' to the banks.

JoshLowry
02-02-2009, 05:42 PM
What? No End The Fed bumper stickers were found this time?

angelatc
02-02-2009, 05:46 PM
That being said, how long will it be before we stop driving by, going around the police checkpoints and being thankful, in a shamed way, "glad it wasn't me"?

We already do that.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 05:49 PM
What we need are Sherriffs that state they will not be the Bank's enforcers. I'm just surprised it took this long before it happened that someone said 'fuck off' to the banks.

+1 Brooklyn Red Leg. I'm planning a personal commitment to make this an issue on the next sheriff elections.:)

BTW: The only "Red Legs" I ever met were from Cincinnati.;)

angelatc
02-02-2009, 05:52 PM
+1 Brooklyn Red Leg. I'm planning a personal commitment to make this an issue on the next sheriff elections.:)

BTW: The only "Red Legs" I ever met were from Cincinnati.;)

If Ron Paul is right, and the role of government should be only to enforce contracts and protect rights.....if the sheriff doesn't enforce the contracts, who should?

nobody's_hero
02-02-2009, 05:54 PM
We need more Tom Darts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27090355/).

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 05:56 PM
If Ron Paul is right, and the role of government should be only to enforce contracts and protect rights.....if the sheriff doesn't enforce the contracts, who should?

It isn't about contracts anymore.
Banks recieve bailouts, which comes from the theft of inflation or taxation of the people.
These same people, who have stolen money from us... are the ones repossessing the homes.
In a libertarian society of free markets, the shire reeve will enforce contracts.
In a socialist democracy, the shire reeve is the strong arm of the thieves.

angelatc
02-02-2009, 05:57 PM
We need more Tom Darts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27090355/).

They started up again. That was a matter of renters claiming they hadn't received notice - it had nothing to do with owner occupied residences.

angelatc
02-02-2009, 06:00 PM
It isn't about contracts anymore.
Banks recieve bailouts, which comes from the theft of inflation or taxation of the people.
These same people, who have stolen money from us... are the ones repossessing the homes.
In a libertarian society of free markets, the shire reeve will enforce contracts.
In a socialist democracy, the shire reeve is the strong arm of the thieves.

They didn't steal the money. Our elected officials handed it to them.

And the contract isn't negated, no matter how they got the money. We said we'd pay, then we didn't.

nobody's_hero
02-02-2009, 06:01 PM
It isn't about contracts anymore.
Banks recieve bailouts, which comes from the theft of inflation or taxation of the people.
These same people, who have stolen money from us... are the ones repossessing the homes.
In a libertarian society of free markets, the shire reeve will enforce contracts.
In a socialist democracy, the shire reeve is the strong arm of the thieves.

This is where I stand:

If it is true that Fannie and Freddie Mac were so MASSIVE that they can be traced to practically every morgage like the government claimed they were, then anyone who has any dealings whatsoever, either directly or indirectly, with either of those bailed-out entities, is morally justified in protesting the foreclosures of their artifically over-valued homes.

Not all banks are necessarily the embodiment of evil, but there are certainly many which have benefited from the bailouts and for those banks, I have no sympathy.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:03 PM
They didn't steal the money. Our elected officials handed it to them.

And the contract isn't negated, no matter how they got the money. We said we'd pay, then we didn't.

If the highest contract of the land is broken. US Constitution. Then the government in no longer legit.
Money from the government in suppose to be spent only for the general welfare... not individual companies.
The reason people are losing their homes is because of the bubbles from inflation, lost jobs, higher bills, low wages.
It isn't because they just didn't want to honor their contracts.
The people who are squeezing.. are the people who control this government.
All bets are off until a legitimate government is re-established.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:04 PM
Countrywide now owns my mortgage. Guess whose president sits on the governing board of the Fed Reserve?

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 06:04 PM
They started up again. That was a matter of renters claiming they hadn't received notice - it had nothing to do with owner occupied residences.

angelatc the Tom Dart issue is pretty much the same. Many homeowners are prevailing in court because there is no determination on whom actually owns the notes. Should a sheriff serve an eviction notice simply because some company asks for it? Or should the courts and the companies be first to make a determination on whom the property owner actually is?

Brooklyn Red Leg
02-02-2009, 06:08 PM
BTW: The only "Red Legs" I ever met were from Cincinnati.;)

Hehe, it comes from the fact I was a Civil War reenactor for 8 seasons once upon a time. I was a member of the 14th Brooklyn Militia Living History Society. The regiment (one of the few) retained their colourful militia uniform throughout their entire 3 year service during The Civil War. It was based on a Crimean War-pattern Chasseur-a-Pede uniform: Scarlet trousers (Chasseur cut, as opposed to Zouave), a blue shell-jacket with false inner red vest and 3 rows of 14 buttons as well as Russian-style red braided epaulier, a French-style blue Kepi with red above (sometimes confused for an Artillery kepi), and white gaiters/leggings with 7 buttons each (the buttons all add up to 14, or are integers of 14, and represent the regimental number).

The Regimental History recounts that during First Bull Run, the Confederate General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, defending Henry House Hill, exclaimed to his men 'Here come those red-legged devils from Brooklyn again'. The 14th had charged repeatedly up Henry House Hill, assaulting Jackson's Brigade, only to be repulsed and try again.

Thus endeth your Civil War uniform lecture for today. :D

angelatc
02-02-2009, 06:11 PM
Countrywide now owns my mortgage. Guess whose president sits on the governing board of the Fed Reserve?

You knew it was a snake before it started hissing.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:20 PM
You knew it was a snake before it started hissing.

My loan was with a local company. They sold it to the snakes.

angelatc
02-02-2009, 06:23 PM
angelatc the Tom Dart issue is pretty much the same. Many homeowners are prevailing in court because there is no determination on whom actually owns the notes. Should a sheriff serve an eviction notice simply because some company asks for it? Or should the courts and the companies be first to make a determination on whom the property owner actually is?

The sheriff works on instruction from the a judge, not a corporation, which indicates that the determination of ownership has indeed been adjudicated.

Dart wasn't concerned about throwing out people who weren't paying for their houses, he was concerned about throwing our renters who had not been notified of the foreclosure. Sending a copy of the paperwork to the address of the property in foreclosure solved that problem.

angelatc
02-02-2009, 06:24 PM
My loan was with a local company. They sold it to the snakes.

You didn't sign a paper that gave them permission to do that?

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 06:29 PM
Hehe, it comes from the fact I was a Civil War reenactor for 8 seasons once upon a time. I was a member of the 14th Brooklyn Militia Living History Society. The regiment (one of the few) retained their colourful militia uniform throughout their entire 3 year service during The Civil War. It was based on a Crimean War-pattern Chasseur-a-Pede uniform: Scarlet trousers (Chasseur cut, as opposed to Zouave), a blue shell-jacket with false inner red vest and 3 rows of 14 buttons as well as Russian-style red braided epaulier, a French-style blue Kepi with red above (sometimes confused for an Artillery kepi), and white gaiters/leggings with 7 buttons each (the buttons all add up to 14, or are integers of 14, and represent the regimental number).

The Regimental History recounts that during First Bull Run, the Confederate General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, defending Henry House Hill, exclaimed to his men 'Here come those red-legged devils from Brooklyn again'. The 14th had charged repeatedly up Henry House Hill, assaulting Jackson's Brigade, only to be repulsed and try again.

Thus endeth your Civil War uniform lecture for today. :D

If it weren't for your thoroughness I would have never guessed you were a re-enactor.:D /sarcasm off

I'll have to check out the history. The only "red legs" I remember are from the Clint Eastwood movie "Outlaw Jose Whales." As I remember they came from Kansas I believe. This seems to come from their leg gaitors as opposed to breeches though.:)

nobody's_hero
02-02-2009, 06:33 PM
You didn't sign a paper that gave them permission to do that?

He probably did. BUT, if the snakes bought the mortgage with bailout money that they would otherwise not have had, wouldn't that raise a few questions about the validity of the whole fiasco?

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pKuHLU61_8&feature=channel_page
Who is profiting from our debt?
The same people we are bailing out.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:33 PM
You didn't sign a paper that gave them permission to do that?

NO, i didn't sign anything for permission to sale my loan.

torchbearer
02-02-2009, 06:35 PM
In fact, this is the third company to have my loan this year.
I doubt they even know who has the title.
They don't send me any notices are anything... I go to pay one company, then they tell me someone else has the loan.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 06:35 PM
The sheriff works on instruction from the a judge, not a corporation, which indicates that the determination of ownership has indeed been adjudicated.

Dart wasn't concerned about throwing out people who weren't paying for their houses, he was concerned about throwing our renters who had not been notified of the foreclosure. Sending a copy of the paperwork to the address of the property in foreclosure solved that problem.

Judges issue these orders without doing their duty to make sure that the claims are legitimate. Which is why citizens have been successful in trial. If I were to claim that the car you drive is mine is it alright for a judge to seize your vehicle and draw you to court because I ask it?

idiom
02-02-2009, 07:23 PM
Not an option to all. Even if you had 100 militia friends they would just send 1,000 more law dogs. As any situation progresses you will become out-manned and outgunned in the governments need to quell the situation before rebellion spreads to the general populace.

I know many like to draw the line in the sand. If such and such happens I'm going down fighting. I think many need to re-evaluate. It will all be based on timing. It will do none of us any good if even one liberty lovin' patriot is lost without any gain.

Gain will be determined by how many of the disenfranchised can be drawn to the cause of liberty, not how many of the never ending sea of oppressors you take with you.

If you had swat surronding a house to evict someone, and you managed to find 100 milita members to fire on the swat team from outside the encirclement, yes they would show up with troopers pretty quick, but I think that would be a big enough event to snowball into a state-wide rebellion pretty quick.

the key is only having a few people stuck in the house as bait, and having a lot of TV cameras on your side.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 07:29 PM
If you had swat surronding a house to evict someone, and you managed to find 100 milita members to fire on the swat team from outside the encirclement, yes they would show up with troopers pretty quick, but I think that would be a big enough event to snowball into a state-wide rebellion pretty quick.

the key is only having a few people stuck in the house as bait, and having a lot of TV cameras on your side.

Did Waco provide widespread rebellion? If...If you were planning this from the beginning, not a reactionary measure, then I might find some plausibility in this.

They fight in a reactionary measure and are limited to that. That should be their weakness. Not ours.

american.swan
02-02-2009, 07:40 PM
Quite right. You will be outmanned and outgunned in this day in time. 100 officers called in many of them SWAT. Guess he just reached a breaking point and wasn't thinking clearly.

I still don't have the whole story. The woman seems to have had a prior for assault with a deadly weapon by which she was acquitted by jury.

I wouldn't fight unless I know I had the upper hand. It's just stupid to go up against SWAT and officers today.

phill4paul
02-02-2009, 08:02 PM
I wouldn't fight unless I know I had the upper hand. It's just stupid to go up against SWAT and officers today.

Having the "upper hand" is not important when engaging an enemy. At any point the "upper hand" may change. More important is determining at which point you will have the "upper hand".

It is not "stupid" to challenge those that would have you lick their, or their masters, boot straps.

I am not advocating violence. In fact I am making an appeal against useless violence.

Know what you are doing. If you are trying to make a statement, how will that statement be interpreted by those that are not enlightened? Will it engender more to your cause than your death will draw from it?

Above all ...Do not allow emotion to rule your actions. Emotion should be the slave to the rational mind. A catalyst for action but not a guiding force.

Anti Federalist
02-02-2009, 08:03 PM
Did Waco provide widespread rebellion? If...If you were planning this from the beginning, not a reactionary measure, then I might find some plausibility in this.

They fight in a reactionary measure and are limited to that. That should be their weakness. Not ours.

No, nor did the Boston Massacre. John Adams had the troops acquitted.

And responding to your earlier comment, I, too, am hoping for a better result than Waco.

The point of that statement is simply to impress that we are all enemy combatants, in the eyes of government.

But you are absolutely correct that "our" greatest advantage is not responding in reactionary fashion and being mobile.

Give up those two at your own peril.;)

Anti Federalist
02-02-2009, 08:05 PM
Having the "upper hand" is not important when engaging an enemy. At any point the "upper hand" may change. More important is determining at which point you will have the "upper hand".

It is not "stupid" to challenge those that would have you lick their, or their masters, boot straps.

I am not advocating violence. In fact I am making an appeal against useless violence.

Know what you are doing. If you are trying to make a statement, how will that statement be interpreted by those that are not enlightened? Will it engender more to your cause than your death will draw from it?

Above all ...Do not allow emotion to rule your actions. Emotion should be the slave to the rational mind. A catalyst for action but not a guiding force.

This is even better.

+1

JK/SEA
02-02-2009, 08:17 PM
One of these days this type of event will get the entire neighborhood involved. First one block, then another and etc.

The sparks will soon be flying.

Athan
02-02-2009, 10:45 PM
Probably when it IS us... :rolleyes:

Well, there is a LOT of people this is happening to.

torchbearer
02-03-2009, 12:10 AM
Well, there is a LOT of people this is happening to.

I'm one bad month away from losing everything.
My savings were drained in an effort to keep up with fuel and energy cost last summer.
I don't think i'll be able to make another summer like that... and i don't think i'm the only one.

libertarian4321
02-04-2009, 12:53 AM
My loan was with a local company. They sold it to the snakes.

There is an easier way to avoid eviction than starting a war with the police.

Its called making your payments on time as you agreed to do.

Try it. It works. Really.

I doubt anyone held a gun to your head and made you take on a mortgage against your will.

libertarian4321
02-04-2009, 12:58 AM
If you had swat surronding a house to evict someone, and you managed to find 100 milita members to fire on the swat team from outside the encirclement, yes they would show up with troopers pretty quick, but I think that would be a big enough event to snowball into a state-wide rebellion pretty quick.

the key is only having a few people stuck in the house as bait, and having a lot of TV cameras on your side.

Why do you think the average citizen would side with the guy who doesn't meet the financial obligations he agrees to, then opens fire on the police who are just enforcing the law?

I sure as Hell wouldn't, and I don't think very many Americans would.

torchbearer
02-04-2009, 09:15 AM
There is an easier way to avoid eviction than starting a war with the police.

Its called making your payments on time as you agreed to do.

Try it. It works. Really.

I doubt anyone held a gun to your head and made you take on a mortgage against your will.

Yeh, why didn't i think of that... when everyone around me is too poor to pay for my services, i'll just shit some gold bricks.
Thanks man!
You are so fucking smart!
You must have went to one of dem gubment skoolz.