Rahm Emanuel, if you are on No Fly List, No Gun!

[sharpsteve2003]

May 15, 2007 Congressman Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) speaking at DC's annual Stand Up For a Safe America event sponsored by the Brady Center says if your name is on the terrorist no fly list you should not be allowed to own a gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4

Why are there so many names on the U.S. government's terrorist list?

In September 2007, the Inspector General of the Justice Department reported that the Terrorist Screening Center (the FBI-administered organization that consolidates terrorist watch list information in the United States) had over 700,000 names in its database as of April 2007 - and that the list was growing by an average of over 20,000 records per month.1 (See also this new March 2008 report.2 )
http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/plus/a0816/final.pdf

By those numbers, the list now has over one million names on it. Terrorist watch lists must be tightly focused on true terrorists who pose a genuine threat. Bloated lists are bad because:

* they ensnare many innocent travelers as suspected terrorists, and
* because they waste screeners' time and divert their energies from looking for true terrorists.
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/watchlistcounter.html

Here is the original post in case they pull my post off YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an8Moh3xuUs
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an8Moh3xuUs)

[Kotin]

wonder how big that list would get..

[akihabro]

List would contain about 200 million. Or how many people are old enough to own a firearm.

[sharpsteve2003]

wonder how big that list would get..

How many citizens are in the US? There's your answer.

[sharpsteve2003]

Superbowl morning Bump

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Huh. . . Subsidize air travel because it is "just too important to let the free market control" and then restrict the potential customer base.
And THEN use something as subjective as a politically motivated blacklist to restrict Constitutionally protected rights.

Sounds consistent with an Obama administration.

[xd9fan]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[cindy25]

wonder if his father , the admiited terrorist, is on that list

[tonesforjonesbones]

yep they will just find reasons to grow the list. everyone on this forum will be on the list. <eyeroll> tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

Time for more lawsuits against these communist bastards. tones

[sharpsteve2003]

yep they will just find reasons to grow the list. everyone on this forum will be on the list. <eyeroll> tones

The number of people who are on the list is roughly the same amount that voted for Ron Paul in the primaries. Makes you wonder.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Fucking Rahm Emanuel should be deported! He's not even a US citizen as he was a member of the IDF during Gulf War I.

[Jordan]

If this passes the republic ends.

[BlackTerrel]

In September 2007, the Inspector General of the Justice Department reported that the Terrorist Screening Center (the FBI-administered organization that consolidates terrorist watch list information in the United States) had over 700,000 names in its database as of April 2007 - and that the list was growing by an average of over 20,000 records per month.1 (See also this new March 2008 report.2 )
http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/plus/a0816/final.pdf

By those numbers, the list now has over one million names on it. Terrorist watch lists must be tightly focused on true terrorists who pose a genuine threat. Bloated lists are bad because

How many of those are Americans? My guess is very few :confused:


yep they will just find reasons to grow the list. everyone on this forum will be on the list. <eyeroll> tones

Do you know anyone who's on the list? I don't. I've never even heard of someone who knows someone on the list.

[Andrew Ryan]

I really don't like this guy.

[sharpsteve2003]

How many of those are Americans? My guess is very few :confused:



Do you know anyone who's on the list? I don't. I've never even heard of someone who knows someone on the list.

You have to be joking. you see no problem with this?

[sharpsteve2003]

Updated the Video. Added annotations. Let me know what you think.

[Crowish]

I was on the "Automatic Selectee List" (SSSS) for a while and I don't know why.

I rarely fly & last time I flew somewhere I didn't encounter the additional screening. Maybe they took my very unique name, which can't be confused with anyone else's, off the list. My luggage is searched every time though.

[BlackTerrel]

You have to be joking. you see no problem with this?

I have a problem with hyperbole like "soon EVERYONE who posts on this forum will be on the list"?


Is ANYONE on the forum on the list? Let's start with that.

There is a difference if most of the people on the list are American or not. I asked a question because I don't know the answer. If they're not American, I believe we have a right to not allow them to fly in our country. As any country has that right.

[torchbearer]

I have a problem with hyperbole like "soon EVERYONE who posts on this forum will be on the list"?


Is ANYONE on the forum on the list? Let's start with that.

There is a difference if most of the people on the list are American or not. I asked a question because I don't know the answer. If they're not American, I believe we have a right to not allow them to fly in our country. As any country has that right.

I'm pretty sure i'm on a list.
Everytime I fly, i'm pulled aside for extensive searching.
Everytime.

[Danke]

I was on the "Automatic Selectee List" (SSSS) for a while and I don't know why.

I rarely fly & last time I flew somewhere I didn't encounter the additional screening. Maybe they took my very unique name, which can't be confused with anyone else's, off the list. My luggage is searched every time though.

Many things can trigger it.

One way ticket. Paid in cash. Bought last minute. etc.

[orafi]

I'm pretty sure i'm on a list.
Everytime I fly, i'm pulled aside for extensive searching.
Everytime.

my dad gets pulled aside because he's brown, no special list or anything LOL :(

[torchbearer]

my dad gets pulled aside because he's brown, no special list or anything LOL :(

I was told one time by the TSA people I look like I'm in the mafia.
I have been invited as a guest to many anti-government rallies too... maybe they take note and hope to catch you with something.
I was threatened with arrest one time because I had a razor blade with me.

"You know this is a concealed weapon right?"

I'm like... you have got to be kidding me.

[torchbearer]

One guy was nice enough to ask.. "Can I look through your bag?"

I responded, "Do I have a choice?"

He just smiled and opened the bag.

[orafi]

I was told one time by the TSA people I look like I'm in the mafia.
I have been invited as a guest to many anti-government rallies too... maybe they take note and hope to catch you with something.
I was threatened with arrest one time because I had a razor blade with me.

"You know this is a concealed weapon right?"

I'm like... you have got to be kidding me.

hahaha.

i had a guest imam at my mosque once, who was once a devout christian pastor. and he tells us that he had been waiting in line (and this has happened quite a few times according to him), that he had to be pulled aside to be examined as a result of a process from "random" selection. LOL what a joke. more like, lets randomly pick which muslim we should pick on for this half hour)

and mind you, he is decked out in typical saudi religious garbs and a thick beard and everything.

so, talk about profiling dewd

[The_Orlonater]

I wonder how this moron got elected in my district?

[BlackTerrel]

I'm pretty sure i'm on a list.
Everytime I fly, i'm pulled aside for extensive searching.Everytime.

You're not on the "No Fly List". Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to fly.

With hyperbole like "everyone on this forum will soon be on the list" I'm trying to determine if there's even one. It's a good start.

As I said, my guess is that the vast majority of these people aren't American or have been convicted of pretty serious crimes. But I'm open to corrections if I'm wrong.

[Anti Federalist]

You're not on the "No Fly List". Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to fly.

With hyperbole like "everyone on this forum will soon be on the list" I'm trying to determine if there's even one. It's a good start.

As I said, my guess is that the vast majority of these people aren't American or have been convicted of pretty serious crimes. But I'm open to corrections if I'm wrong.

There are two lists: No Fly and Selectee.

The latter will, at the TSA's discretion, let you board after a lengthy search and vetting process.

Th estimated number of names is over one million for both lists.

False positives and other controversial cases
False positives and abuses that have been in the news include:

Numerous children (including many under the age of five, and some under the age of one) have generated false positives.[16][17]

Daniel Brown, a United States Marine returning from Iraq, was prevented from boarding a flight home in April 2006 because his name matched one on the No Fly List. The rest of his company refused to leave the airport until Brown was allowed to board.[18]

David Fathi, an attorney for the ACLU of Iranian descent and a plaintiff in the ACLU lawsuit.[19]

Asif Iqbal, a management consultant and legal resident of the United States born in Pakistan, plans to sue the U.S. government because he is regularly detained when he tries to fly, because he has the same name as a former Guantanamo detainee.[20][21] Iqbal's work requires a lot of travel, and, even though the Guantanamo detainee has been released, his name remains on the No Fly List, and Iqbal the software consultant experiences frequent, unpredictable delays and missed flights.[22] He is pushing for a photo ID and birthdate matching system, in addition to the current system of checking names.[23]

Robert J. Johnson, a surgeon and a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, was told in 2006 that he was on the list, although he had had no problem in flying the month before. Johnson was running as a Democrat against U.S. Representative John McHugh, a Republican. Johnson wondered whether he was on the list because of his opposition to the Iraq War. He stated, "This could just be a government screw-up, but I don't know, and they won't tell me."[24] Later, a 60 Minutes report brought together 12 men named Robert Johnson, all of whom had experienced problems in airports with being pulled aside and interrogated. The report suggested that the individual whose name was intended to be on the list was most likely the Robert Johnson who had been convicted of plotting to bomb a movie theater and a Hindu temple in Toronto.[5]

In August 2004, Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) told a Senate Judiciary Committee discussing the No Fly List that he had appeared on the list and had been repeatedly delayed at airports. He said it had taken him three weeks of appeals directly to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to have him removed from the list. Kennedy said he was eventually told that the name "T Kennedy" was added to the list because it was once used as an alias of a suspected terrorist. There are an estimated 7,000 American men whose legal names correspond to "T Kennedy". (Senator Kennedy, whose first name is Edward and for whom "Ted" is only a nickname, would not be one of them.) Recognizing that as a U.S. Senator he was in a privileged position of being able to contact Ridge, Kennedy said of "ordinary citizens": "How are they going to be able to get to be treated fairly and not have their rights abused?"[25] Former mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani pointed to this incident as an example for the necessity to "rethink aviation security" in an essay on homeland security published while he was seeking the Republican nomination for the 2008 presidential election.[26]
U.S. Representative John Lewis (D-GA), widely known for his civil rights advocacy, has been stopped many times.[27]

Canadian journalist Patrick Martin has been frequently interrogated while travelling, because of a suspicious individual with the same name.[28]
James Moore, an Emmy-winning television news correspondent, co-author of Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential, political activist, and outspoken critic of the Bush administration, was placed on the No Fly List.[29]

Walter F. Murphy, McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton, reported that the following exchange took place at Newark on 1 March 2007, where he was denied a boarding pass "because I [Professor Murphy] was on the Terrorist Watch list." The airline employee asked, "Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that." "I explained," said professor Murphy, "that I had not so marched but had, in September 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the constitution." To which the airline employee responded, "That'll do it."[30]

David Nelson, the actor best known for his role on The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, is among various persons named David Nelson who have been stopped at airports because their name apparently appears on the list.[31][32]
Jesselyn Radack, a former United States Department of Justice ethics adviser who argued that John Walker Lindh was entitled to an attorney, was placed on the No Fly List as part of what many believe to be a reprisal for her whistleblowing.
In September 2004, former pop singer Cat Stevens (who converted to Islam and changed his name to "Yusuf Islam" in 1978) was denied entry into the U.S. after his name was found on the list.[33]

In February 2006, U.S. Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) stated in a committee hearing that his wife Catherine had been subjected to questioning at an airport as to whether she was Cat Stevens due to the similarity of their names.[31][34]

U.S. Representative Don Young (R-AK), the 3rd-most senior Republican in the House, was flagged in 2004 after he was mistaken for a "Donald Lee Young".[35]
Some members of the Federal Air Marshal Service have been denied boarding on flights that they were assigned to protect because their names matched those of persons on the no-fly list.[36]

Until July 2008, Nelson Mandela and other members of the African National Congress were on the list, something that U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called "rather embarrassing".[37] On July 5, 2008, the U.S. removed Mandela and the ANC from the list.[38]

In August 2008, CNN reported that an airline captain and retired brigadier general for the United States Air Force has had numerous encounters with security officials when attempting to pilot his own plane.[39]
After frequent harassment at airport terminals, a Canadian businessman changed his name to avoid being delayed every time he took a flight.[40]

In October 2008, it was revealed that Maryland State Police classified 53 nonviolent political activists as terrorists, and entered their names and personal information on the terrorist watch list.[41] Also, protest groups were entered as terrorist organizations. During a hearing, it was revealed that these individuals and organizations had been placed on the list because of their opposition to the death penalty and the Iraq war.

[torchbearer]

I must be on the selectee list.

[Danke]

I must be on the selectee list.

ya, my bad. I put you on there as a joke. I just can't figure how to take you off.

Sorry.

[torchbearer]

ya, my bad. I put you on there as a joke. I just can't figure how to take you off.

Sorry.

You wouldn't be the only one to put me on there.

[BlackTerrel]

Robert J. Johnson, a surgeon and a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, was told in 2006 that he was on the list, although he had had no problem in flying the month before. Johnson was running as a Democrat against U.S. Representative John McHugh, a Republican. Johnson wondered whether he was on the list because of his opposition to the Iraq War. He stated, "This could just be a government screw-up, but I don't know, and they won't tell me."[24] Later, a 60 Minutes report brought together 12 men named Robert Johnson, all of whom had experienced problems in airports with being pulled aside and interrogated. The report suggested that the individual whose name was intended to be on the list was most likely the Robert Johnson who had been convicted of plotting to bomb a movie theater and a Hindu temple in Toronto.

To be fair to the government it's not a very common name, who would've thought that there'd be more than one Bob Johnson?

[sharpsteve2003]

This video was played on Alex Jones Today. :)