Obama says you need to have strong unions to have a strong middle class

[Jeremy]

"We know you can't have a strong middle class without a strong labor movement." - Barack Obama

How long until the unions come together and start a National Socialist Workers Party?

[mczerone]

My experience tells me that strong unions lead to an "elite" upper-middle class, and a poverty-level lower class that's 4 times as large.

But that's just what happened all over SE Michigan when the Unions were strong.

[Truth Warrior]

Well there needs to be some IMPOSED balance of power for the Corporate States of Amerika, crafted, empowered and subsidized by governments.

Problem --> Reaction --> Solution. ( lather, rinse, repeat )

The template and cycle of government growth and TYRANNY.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[FreeTraveler]

Big Business and Big Government needed an ally to keep the people in line while they were being raped. They created Big Union to give lip service to the people. There are three elephants on the dance floor, and they don't even notice the field mice they step on.

[powerofreason]

Work for the Big Three!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DLObe9j0Uko/ST67ulPSXxI/AAAAAAAAACo/WReUMBSKylM/s1600/bigthree.jpg

[angelatc]

Work for the Big Three!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DLObe9j0Uko/ST67ulPSXxI/AAAAAAAAACo/WReUMBSKylM/s1600/bigthree.jpg

The American Textiles industry provides another stunning example.

And let's not forget the steel workers!

[Catatonic]

My experience tells me that strong unions lead to an "elite" upper-middle class, and a poverty-level lower class that's 4 times as large.

But that's just what happened all over SE Michigan when the Unions were strong.

How exactly did that happen?

[cska80]

Strong unions? Check out Rhode Island. No jobs, low incomes, terrible schools, crumbling roads and bridges...but the state is the biggest employer here. Oh, and our unions own our general assembly. Out of 113 members of the general assembly, we have 4 republicans...Our capital city looks like a third world country outside of the 5 mile or so radius of downtown. Corruption. Welfare state. A dwindling middle class. A little socialist utopia! And don't forget our impressive budget deficit!

[mczerone]

How exactly did that happen?

The people that were in the Union (for GM, Ford, or the City) had nice, cushy, do-nothing jobs (only a slight exaggeration), and all of the other people had to make do with service positions that could never offer as much as the union for salary. After a length of time you end up with two major classes of people, one living off the teat of the Government and Government supported Unions, and the other, much larger segment, living off the scraps. The productivity of the area had completely tied into supporting the Big 3, and there were many problems in these cities much before the decline of the auto companies.

Now, I don't think that Unions are themselves evil - if those who work in an industry wish to homogenize their efforts and pay someone to represent them for the purpose of negotiating a contract - that's perfectly fine. The government propping up these unions and bankrupt car companies is what bothers me - and also leads to the over investment in a single industry, depletion of resources, and class separation of haves and have-nots.

This theory isn't entirely fleshed out, but from my experience I can't see any society truly prospering when Unions are given special privilege by the government, or when the government gives special privilege to the auto companies to offset the contracts that the Unions were able to get. Every one else in the society ends up paying extra for their cars and not being able to compete economically with those in subsidized positions.

[UtahApocalypse]

GM, Chrysler, Ford` = Unions, and failing badly, thousands of lay-offs
Mercedes, Honda, Hyundai = Non-Union, Hurting but still doing fair, Very few lay-offs

So Unions are good?? Im lost.

Ford` = Ford declined to take bailout money and instead is cutting much of the Union wages.

[phill4paul]

The majority of unionized labor is in the public sector and generally make more than unionized labor in the private sector. :rolleyes:

Middle-class is now to consist of government employees. If you want to move up from lower-class, then best to become part of the system.