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johnwk
01-30-2009, 09:57 PM
1.

Immediately suspend the tax upon earned wages and make up the shortfall with a federal luxury tax upon specifically chosen articles of luxury ___ a kind of tax our founding fathers intended in which the market place determines the allowable limit of tax on each articles selected by Congress.

As noted in Federalist 21. (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed21.asp)


It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption, that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit; which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed, that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty, that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four .'' If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.

For a recent example of this tax see The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c101:H.R.5835:http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c101:4:./temp/~c101exSUxe) click on 4. “Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)[H.R.5835.ENR]”, after which you may scroll down to TITLE XI--REVENUE PROVISIONS, and then click on :
PART III--TAXES ON LUXURY ITEMS




`SEC. 4001. PASSENGER VEHICLES.
There is hereby imposed on the 1st retail sale of any passenger vehicle a tax equal to 10 percent of the price for which so sold to the extent such price exceeds $30,000.


`SEC. 4002. BOATS.
There is hereby imposed on the 1st retail sale of any boat a tax equal to 10 percent of the price for which so sold to the extent such price exceeds $100,000.

`SEC. 4003. AIRCRAFT.
There is hereby imposed on the 1st retail sale of any aircraft a tax equal to 10 percent of the price for which so sold to the extent such price exceeds $250,000.

`SEC. 4006. JEWELRY.
There is hereby imposed on the 1st retail sale of any jewelry a tax equal to 10 percent of the price for which so sold to the extent such price exceeds $10,000.

`SEC. 4007. FURS.
There is hereby imposed on the 1st retail sale of the following articles a tax equal to 10 percent of the price for which so sold to the extent such price exceeds $10,000:

Note that the outrageous 10 percent imposed by Congress because of its greed caused diminishes sales of those consumer articles and adversely affected the luxury boat building industry which in turn immediately prompted Congress to repeal the tax in 1991 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=102&session=1&vote=00263)

Had the tax on luxury boats only been one or two percent it probably would have been paid without much resistance. But, the tax was an outrageous 10 percent and the market place responded to limit Congress‘s greedy desire for revenue. As documented in Federalist No. 21, our founding fathers carefully devised a consumption tax plan allowing the market place to determine the amount of tax on each article chosen; prevented an “extension of the revenue”; and, avoided the kind of class warfare Congress now engaged in under its current method of filling the nationals treasury.


2.

Immediately end the tax calculated from the profits which business and industry earns, and, also end the tax calculated from the returns of invested capital.

The above can be accomplished by adopting the following words in our Constitution:


The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money

This stimulant would “stimulate” the economy beyond imagination and have foreigners fighting each other to immediately “invest” in America! Of course, our management freaks in Congress would loose much of their iron fisted control over the American People.

Lost revenue, if the above were to be adopted, can be made up with a nondiscriminatory across the board tax upon imports, such as the tonnage taxes which our founding fathers used to fill the national treasury. And if there is a shortfall and Congress still needs additional revenue, it may do so by the direct tax apportioned which our founding fathers put into the Constitution for such emergencies.

The direct apportioned tax requires Congress to determine a specific sum of money to be raised, and then requires Congress to determine each state’s share of that burden by the following formula:

Our Constitution’s fair share formula for direct taxes when laid by Congress!


States’ population

--------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S SHARE

Total U.S. Population

Once each state’s share of the total sum to be raised by Congress is determined by our Constitution‘s fair share formula, our founding fathers intended Congress to send a bill to each state for payment, leaving the various state Governors and Legislatures with the responsibility of transferring the state’s share from their state treasury into the federal treasury, or raising additional taxes within the state and then transferring that money into the federal treasury. Of course, this tax upon the states would place an unwanted burden upon every state’s legislature and Governor and they would suddenly have a very real interest in seeing to it that Congress lives within a budget which may be supplied from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excises taxes, including the federal luxury tax upon specifically chosen articles of luxury mentioned above.

Bottom line is, our founding fathers tax plan providing the economic stimulus under which America became the economic marvel of the world, when it was followed, and did so because it controlled Congress rather than allowing Congress control the people.

Regards,

JWK


“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

satchelmcqueen
01-30-2009, 10:45 PM
i didnt read most of the post, but i recommend going to ronpaulfourms.com for a good education on all matters. i am "satchelmcqueen" on there..... look around, i think you will find some thing of interest.

Zippyjuan
01-30-2009, 10:46 PM
Let me get this straight-- you want to replace $1.25 trillion in income taxes (the amount collected in 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2008 )with a luxury tax- but not one that is too high. During a time when spending is already way off. Then get rid of business income taxes- $314 billion a year. Tax imports to make up that difference (import duties came to $29 billion so they would have to be raised by at least ten fold what they are now). Are you replacing Social Security and Medicare taxes with the luxury tax too? Nobody wil be able to buy luxury goods at the required tax rate. Ten percent was too high? That is nothing compare to what you idea would require. How will this stimulate the economy? It won't.

And instead have a "head tax" based on the population paid by the states. Where do you think the states will get the money to pay? Income taxes. Taxes on business. Property taxes. You only shift who collects it. If Congress does not have to worry about the impact of raising taxes since it will be up to the states to do so, they have no incentive to worry about what they spend or how much in taxes they charge to the states.

Our $3 trillion budget (before this latest mess of spending) divided by about 300 milliion people means that you will need to send to your state government a check for $10,000 so that they can foreward it to the Federal government.

bustya
01-31-2009, 03:35 AM
I'm sure that a handful of iron workers will get lots of overtime painting that bridge, but the rest of us are screwed.

johnwk
01-31-2009, 06:51 AM
i didnt read most of the post, .

And therein is your problem . . . you didn't read.

JWK


If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon a federal government check, we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population [Joe the American plumber] enslaved to pay the bills ____ Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the wages earned by labor.

Brooklyn Red Leg
01-31-2009, 07:28 AM
Let me get this straight-- you want to replace $1.25 trillion in income taxes (the amount collected in 2008 with a luxury tax- but not one that is too high. During a time when spending is already way off.
...................................
Our $3 trillion budget (before this latest mess of spending) divided by about 300 milliion people means that you will need to send to your state government a check for $10,000 so that they can foreward it to the Federal government.

You do realise that the Personal Income Tax doesn't pay for one goddamn dime's worth of 'government services'. It has nothing to do with 'spending' in the sense that it doesn't pay for ANYTHING but the interest the Federal Reserve charges the government for borrowing FRNs. Eliminating it altogether along with The Fed would stimulate the economy out of this Depression we're sliding into.

johnwk
01-31-2009, 05:40 PM
Well look at this! Congressman Louie Gohmert proposes two month federal tax holiday for American Workers! (http://www.waeagles.com/?q=node/519)


Why has Obama not come out in support of this wage-tax holiday to help poor working fathers living in Harlem who can now barely meet their family’s necessities of life because of oppressive federal taxation. Why is it that Obama and the democrat party leadership want to keep in tact a slavish tax upon the property which poor working people have in their labor?


JWK

“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

Zippyjuan
01-31-2009, 05:54 PM
The Fed does not charge interest to the government. You are misinformed on this.
The OP is proposing not getting rid of taxation but changing what is taxed and how it is collected. The amount of taxes paid would not change on his plan. He advocates a luxury tax and then having the states come up with the rest on a per-capita basis.

If you are concerned about taxes you need to go after the main problem which is spending. You cannot actually cut taxes until you get expenditures below your taxes and then you can cut them. This is what Ron Paul would like to achieve. Otherwise you are only changing taxes paid today for taxes paid later on with interest added. Unfortunately the budget is about to explode.

From one of the debates:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22342301/

REP. PAUL: We have to cut spending. You can't get rid of the income tax if you don't get rid of some spending.

paulitics
01-31-2009, 06:10 PM
Until spending is cut, the Fed will just print money to pay for govt services, which we will have to pay back in inflation. It would hit the poor and middle class the hardest. The only way to bolster the ecomomy is through cutting spending, letting all of the bubbles pop, and returning to market balance.

A depression only happens when the market is out of equilbrium for a prolonged period of time. When the market is out of balance, it creates waste and excess supply. This occurs when the fed tries to beat the market's correction by flooding it with money. Therefore, cutting taxes, or even eliminating taxes will not help unless it is preceeded by a propotianal decrease in government spending.

Zippyjuan
01-31-2009, 06:38 PM
Excellent points!

johnwk
01-31-2009, 08:25 PM
Until spending is cut, .


Did you miss this?


Once each state’s share of the total sum to be raised by Congress is determined by our Constitution‘s fair share formula, our founding fathers intended Congress to send a bill to each state for payment, leaving the various state Governors and Legislatures with the responsibility of transferring the state’s share from their state treasury into the federal treasury, or raising additional taxes within the state and then transferring that money into the federal treasury. Of course, this tax upon the states would place an unwanted burden upon every state’s legislature and Governor and they would suddenly have a very real interest in seeing to it that Congress lives within a budget which may be supplied from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excises taxes, including the federal luxury tax upon specifically chosen articles of luxury mentioned above.




JWK

johnwk
01-31-2009, 08:28 PM
BTW, The WAGE TAX HOLIDAY has 55 co-sponsors! (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-143)


Rep. Louis Gohmert [R-TX]hide cosponsors Cosponsors [as of 2009-01-14]
Rep. John Kline [R-MN]
Rep. Lynn Westmoreland [R-GA]
Rep. Samuel Johnson [R-TX]
Rep. John Carter [R-TX]
Rep. Roscoe Bartlett [R-MD]
Rep. Jim Gerlach [R-PA]
Rep. Peter Sessions [R-TX]
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R-WA]
Rep. Ronald Paul [R-TX]
Rep. Paul Broun [R-GA]
Rep. Nathan Deal [R-GA]
Rep. Jeff Flake [R-AZ]
Rep. Michele Bachmann [R-MN]
Rep. Tom Price [R-GA]
Rep. Michael Conaway [R-TX]
Rep. John Culberson [R-TX]
Rep. John Linder [R-GA]
Rep. Lee Terry [R-NE]
Rep. Bill Young [R-FL]
Rep. Joseph Pitts [R-PA]
Rep. Jeb Hensarling [R-TX]
Rep. John Shadegg [R-AZ]
Rep. Pete Olson [R-TX]
Rep. John Gingrey [R-GA]
Rep. Randy Neugebauer [R-TX]
Rep. Geoff Davis [R-KY]
Rep. Patrick Mchenry [R-NC]
Rep. Devin Nunes [R-CA]
Rep. Mary Fallin [R-OK]
Rep. Todd Akin [R-MO]
Rep. Ralph Hall [R-TX]
Rep. Darrell Issa [R-CA]
Rep. Robert Latta [R-OH]
Rep. Donald Young [R-AK]
Rep. Tom Cole [R-OK]
Rep. Scott Garrett [R-NJ]
Rep. John Duncan [R-TN]
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R-MI]
Rep. James Barrett [R-SC]
Rep. Marsha Blackburn [R-TN]
Rep. Mike Pence [R-IN]
Rep. Michael Burgess [R-TX]
Rep. Peter Hoekstra [R-MI]
Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R-WI]
Rep. Ted Poe [R-TX]
Rep. Sue Myrick [R-NC]
Rep. Dan Burton [R-IN]
Rep. Steve Scalise [R-LA]
Rep. Trent Franks [R-AZ]
Rep. Todd Platts [R-PA]
Rep. Kay Granger [R-TX]
Rep. Frank Wolf [R-VA]
Rep. Doug Lamborn [R-CO]
Rep. Connie Mack [R-FL]
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R-TX]

JWK

Black working people who support Obama are absolutely correct when they say, as a general statement, “its all about the Benjamins”. But they seem to be easily conned into surrendering the “Benjamins“ they earn to "agents of change" who merely seek to change the faces of those holding political plum jobs within the inner circle of the Washington Establishment. Do black voters not realize they will be betrayed by Obama's "agents of change“ and remain tax slaves ___ useful to work and pay taxes to feed political plum job holders on our federal plantation?