PDA

View Full Version : A campaign to end voter fraud




Maximilian American
01-29-2009, 03:40 PM
A strong funded effort to voice our opinions with facts and alternatives. Starting now gives us plenty of time to make an impact before the primaries and caucuses begin. If we are serious about our principals then Lets make voting legit.

Ron Paul 2012

ronpaulhawaii
01-29-2009, 03:57 PM
I agree this is a viable issue that people can focus on

Truth Warrior
01-29-2009, 04:26 PM
Diebold Variations
http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/adworks.htm (http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/adworks.htm)

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 10:19 AM
OK, the question is, can we organize a campaign with CFL, YAL, www.blackboxvoting.org, Free State Project, and others to lobby for a alternative voting method in the States that need them so to help minimize voter fraud, especially since we are going to be working with more effort and capital than ever before for the 2010 & 2012 elections.

Also, let us consider first, what a great boost in liberty and recognition such a accomplishment can expand. The motivation of such a campaign can help begin laying the foundation towards further progress of ideas that can help gain more power and influence in the overall political process.

We can bring light to this most important issue like we did for the Ron Paul 2008 campaign, but with more people, resources, and experience.

But is it possible? I think so, but I'd like to know what others think.



http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/little_die/diebold_1a.jpg

Truth Warrior
01-30-2009, 10:28 AM
OK, the question is, can we organize a campaign with CFL, YAL, www.blackboxvoting.org (http://www.blackboxvoting.org), Free State Project, and others to lobby for a alternative voting method in the States that need them so to help minimize voter fraud, especially since we are going to be working with more effort and capital than ever before for the 2010 & 2012 elections.

Also, let us consider first, what a great boost in liberty and recognition such a accomplishment can expand. The motivation of such a campaign can help begin laying the foundation towards further progress of ideas that can help gain more power and influence in the overall political process.

We can bring light to this most important issue like we did for the Ron Paul 2008 campaign, but with more people, resources, and experience.

But is it possible? I think so, but I'd like to know what others think.


http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/little_die/diebold_1a.jpg

I think NOT. :(

Any "system" that is crucially dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable.

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 10:37 AM
but do you think that the system can be improved to be more reliable than the current?

Also, in regards to reliability, what is your opinion of a comparison of Paper Trail voting with a receipt vs the current electronic and paper scan devices?

ronpaulhawaii
01-30-2009, 10:46 AM
I think NOT. :(

Any "system" that is crucially dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable.

That includes the system called "anarchy", right?

I would argue that anarchy is the system which most depends on human reliability.

Regardless, the world will always be perfectly imperfect. The fact is that working with what we have is much more effective than working with what we don't. Indeed, working with what we don't have seems impossible and in the realm of white tower academics, IOW - a waste of the common mans time.

Back to the topic, all things are possible and working towards greater integrity in our voting systems is important on many levels. I do believe people can form alliances and work towards common goals. I'm not sure of the best way to do that, but then, I'm just a simple activist...

Truth Warrior
01-30-2009, 10:55 AM
but do you think that the system can be improved to be more reliable than the current?

Also, in regards to reliability, what is your opinion of a comparison of Paper Trail voting with a receipt vs the current electronic and paper scan devices?

Voter fraud has been going on FOREVER. Improved is NOT an end nor a cure.<IMHO> :rolleyes: It's ALL just a frickin' numbers racket, played for very high, power and control, stakes. People cheat in those kinds of situations. :p

I think that answers both questions. ;)

Non-voters constitute a 2 to 1 MAJORITY of "We the People". Fraud is critical and built into the system, BY DESIGN.<IMHO>

Thanks! :)

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 11:11 AM
Voter fraud has been going on FOREVER. Improved is NOT a cure.<IMHO> :rolleyes: It's ALL just a frickin' numbers game, played for very high, power and control, stakes. People cheat in those kinds of situations. :p

I think that answers both questions. ;)

Non-voters constitute a 2 to 1 MAJORITY of "We the People". Fraud is critical and built into the system, BY DESIGN.<IMHO>

Thanks! :)

Yeah, the reality of the system is and has been corrupt throughout its history, but

In your opinion, what would an opposite system be like?

Truth Warrior
01-30-2009, 11:18 AM
Yeah, the reality of the system is and has been corrupt throughout its history, but

In your opinion, what would an opposite system be like?

What's an opposite system, you have in mind? :)

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 12:09 PM
What's an opposite system, you have in mind? :)

Are you entirely settled with this system? I'm not, there has to be a better system for a republic. The best idea of course is absolute freedom by individual enlightenment of self and all, that is evolution...an opposite system :). Takes time though, but maybe we can accelerate on the speed of the time it takes by making some action that could result in speeding our evolution, like noble campaigns for honesty and justice for the most important aspects that would keep our republic free.

Truth Warrior
01-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Are you entirely settled with this system? I'm not, there has to be a better system for a republic. The best idea of course is absolute freedom by individual enlightenment of self and all, that is evolution...an opposite system :). Takes time though, but maybe we can accelerate on the speed of the time it takes by making some action that could result in speeding our evolution, like noble campaigns for honesty and justice for the most important aspects that would keep our republic free.

A free society is created one by one. Voting your way to freedom is like screwing your way to virginity. ;)

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 01:45 PM
I just want to go back to your previous post


Voter fraud has been going on FOREVER. Improved is NOT an end nor a cure.<IMHO> :rolleyes: It's ALL just a frickin' numbers racket, played for very high, power and control, stakes. People cheat in those kinds of situations. :p

I think that answers both questions. ;)

Non-voters constitute a 2 to 1 MAJORITY of "We the People". Fraud is critical and built into the system, BY DESIGN.<IMHO>

Thanks! :)


I understand what you mean, but I see a possible means to an end through the system if we work to empower our current situation in the system........kinda like getting ourselves out of a hole by producing real foundation within it. The irony might be that it just sustains the system but I'd rather have that than the current formula...However I have more faith in the opposite because IMHO it'll justly be too close and good to pass up.

A+B=C, C-B=A Kinda like an end to a bad trip that leaves one with an experience

ShannonOBrien
01-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Maybe one of the things we can do to prevent voter fraud is to get our guys to run as director or elections and get out guys to count the votes. I'm not really sure how to do that though.

ronpaulhawaii
01-30-2009, 03:20 PM
Maybe one of the things we can do to prevent voter fraud is to get our guys to run as director or elections and get out guys to count the votes. I'm not really sure how to do that though.

now there's an idea :)

Truth Warrior
01-30-2009, 03:21 PM
I just want to go back to your previous post




I understand what you mean, but I see a possible means to an end through the system if we work to empower our current situation in the system........kinda like getting ourselves out of a hole by producing real foundation within it. The irony might be that it just sustains the system but I'd rather have that than the current formula...However I have more faith in the opposite because IMHO it'll justly be too close and good to pass up.

A+B=C, C-B=A Kinda like an end to a bad trip that leaves one with an experience What are you going to do about Diebold or whoever now OWNS it? :rolleyes: It's just an insecure "black box" with proprietary circuitry and programming. :p Ya still just gotta get past that unreliable human factor. ;)

Imperial
01-30-2009, 10:55 PM
Truth Warrior, I think in this situation a clearly described alternative is what we are looking for.

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 10:57 PM
What are you going to do about Diebold or whoever now OWNS it? :rolleyes: It's just an insecure "black box" with proprietary circuitry and programming. :p Ya still just gotta get past that unreliable human factor. ;)

Use the Republic against who ever OWNS Diebold, through powerful and organized civil action. Its not written, so lets write it if we want it.

Maximilian American
01-30-2009, 10:59 PM
Maybe one of the things we can do to prevent voter fraud is to get our guys to run as director or elections and get out guys to count the votes. I'm not really sure how to do that though.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon14.gif

ronpaulhawaii
01-31-2009, 08:01 AM
Maybe one of the things we can do to prevent voter fraud is to get our guys to run as director or elections and get out guys to count the votes. I'm not really sure how to do that though.

We need people to research how those positions are filled. Here are some orgs already involved...

http://thelandesreport.com/VotingSecurity.htm
http://www.counttheballots.org/
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Truth Warrior
01-31-2009, 08:57 AM
Use the Republic against who ever OWNS Diebold, through powerful and organized civil action. Its not written, so lets write it if we want it. The republic??? Haven't you heard, the democrats are running the whole show now ( probably through voter fraud, in part ;) )? :D


"When people say 'let's do something about it,' they mean 'let's get hold of the political machinery so that we can do something to somebody else.' And that somebody is invariably you." -- Frank Chodorov