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robert4rp08
01-28-2009, 08:10 PM
I'm looking for a means to store my bullion coins (silver eagles, maples, etc) so as to prevent tarnishing. I currently have them in PVC-Free Airtite containers stored in a cardboard box along with some 3M anti-tarnish strips. I just bought a FreeSaver vacuum sealer (hell of a deal, I should've posted it here... oops!) along with some of the plastic containers. So, I'm thinking of vacuum sealing my coins for ultimate preservation.

One of my containers has a 7 in the triangle, which is a polycarbonate (BPA). An another of my containers has "SAN" in the triangle, which is Styrene Acrylonitrile.

My questions: Will either of these tarnish my silver? (Reminder: they're not in direct contact with the coins)

Thanks!

qh4dotcom
01-28-2009, 10:33 PM
If you're storing them at home....aren't you concerned the risks of keeping them there like burglary?

ClayTrainor
01-28-2009, 10:35 PM
If you're storing them at home....aren't you concerned the risks of keeping them there like burglary?



If you store it at home,

Buy an expensive safe, that you can bolt into your floor.

Also, if you're really concerned, throw a GPS bug device inside of it, in case someone does walk off with it somehow.

cthulhufan
01-28-2009, 10:40 PM
If you store it at home,

Buy an expensive safe, that you can bolt into your floor.

Also, if you're really concerned, throw a GPS bug device inside of it, in case someone does walk off with it somehow.

And buy a 7 gauge steel safe at that... ~30 minutes or less to brute force 12 gauge steel with an axe.

robert4rp08
01-28-2009, 11:04 PM
i have a safe silly geese

fr33domfightr
01-28-2009, 11:29 PM
i have a safe silly geese

My Mother's neighbor had a floor safe, buried in the concrete. They had it professionally installed. About a year after installation, someone broke into the house and physically removed the floor safe. Based on this, I'd say don't let anyone know about it, and don't use an installer. I'd vacuum seal all the coins, but Silver is the one that can tarnish, 24K Gold is always shiny, but you can vacuum those too.


FF

Arklatex
01-28-2009, 11:42 PM
A safe is a bull's eye. Whatever is in there is important everyone knows.

cthulhufan
01-28-2009, 11:43 PM
My Mother's neighbor had a floor safe, buried in the concrete. They had it professionally installed. About a year after installation, someone broke into the house and physically removed the floor safe. Based on this, I'd say don't let anyone know about it, and don't use an installer. I'd vacuum seal all the coins, but Silver is the one that can tarnish, 24K Gold is always shiny, but you can vacuum those too.
FF
Yep. Many factors to consider in not just storing it but, also, owning it...

Bman
01-29-2009, 01:21 AM
If you store it at home,

Buy an expensive safe, that you can bolt into your floor.

Also, if you're really concerned, throw a GPS bug device inside of it, in case someone does walk off with it somehow.

Screw a safe you need a couple German Shepherds. Or if you want someone to get hurt for even entering your house a couple Chows should do the trick.

Personally, I pitty the idiot who tries to break into my house.

robert4rp08
01-29-2009, 07:50 AM
Hmmmm, I know about storage for security. I want to know about storage for preservation! Is it safe to store coins, in a PVC-free airtite holder, inside a plastic #7 or plastic "SAN" container? Will my silver remain tarnish free? lol

rancher89
01-29-2009, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm, I know about storage for security. I want to know about storage for preservation! Is it safe to store coins, in a PVC-free airtite holder, inside a plastic #7 or plastic "SAN" container? Will my silver remain tarnish free? lol

The best way would be to have that tarnish polishing cloth wraping them, then air sealing them. I just checked my sealed proofs and it doesn't say what kind of plastic encloses them or whether they are airtight....they are shiney.....It probably doesn't matter what kind of plastic you use. As far as the air inside the bag/container, if you suck the air out, you've sucked the moisture out, which would stop any corrosion, right? A few silica packs would finish it off nicely...Ziplock makes bags you can suck all the air out of, how convienient....

powerofreason
01-29-2009, 08:09 AM
safe w/ gps bug + guard dogs + ar-16 next to your bed + night vision goggles + flash bangs.

Now thats protection. :)

Anti Federalist
01-29-2009, 08:39 AM
As other's have already posted, a safe is a big, giant target.

I don't know how many you have to store, nor do I know what type of home you have.

But assuming you have a single family home of 2000 sq. ft., give or take, you can take quite a bit of PM's, store them in a small, hand carry strongboxes (this is for fire protection more than anything else) and distribute them throughout the house, in "hidey holes" that exist all over.

In between the roof joists, under the insulation, or floor joists if you have a basement are two starting places, but there are literally hundreds of others in an average sized home or even apartment.

Thieves can't steal what they don't know is there.;)

Now, if government is tossing your house, then you're screwed. Off property burial is the only option there. If you need to do that, preserve them the same way you would firearms.

For inside storage, I would think the vacuum bags you mentioned and some desiccant in the strong box would suffice.


I'm looking for a means to store my bullion coins (silver eagles, maples, etc) so as to prevent tarnishing. I currently have them in PVC-Free Airtite containers stored in a cardboard box along with some 3M anti-tarnish strips. I just bought a FreeSaver vacuum sealer (hell of a deal, I should've posted it here... oops!) along with some of the plastic containers. So, I'm thinking of vacuum sealing my coins for ultimate preservation.

One of my containers has a 7 in the triangle, which is a polycarbonate (BPA). An another of my containers has "SAN" in the triangle, which is Styrene Acrylonitrile.

My questions: Will either of these tarnish my silver? (Reminder: they're not in direct contact with the coins)

Thanks!

rancher89
01-29-2009, 09:04 AM
guys, read the OP, he's worried about tarnishing, not "protecting" the PM's

Madcat455
01-29-2009, 09:20 AM
I don't know much about keeping them from tarnishing.. but you'd think that vacum sealing them would be sufficient.

As for protecting them.. You absolutely need a safe.. larger one, but conceal it somewhat in your master bedroom closet.....

Then PLASTER YOUR FKN COINS IN A WALL!!!!

fr33domfightr
01-29-2009, 09:44 AM
I think the discoloration of Silver is due to Silver Oxide. The oxide formed when silver reacts with oxygen in the air. Remove the air and they should be fine.

The oxidation is what also makes newspaper clippings get yellow, they can be sealed up as well, as can personal photos.

Since some of you mentioned Safes, I thought I tell you a tidbit I didn't know about safes. There are FIRE Safes and MEDIA Safes. A Fire Safe will protect papers, but they will not protect CD/DVD/tapes if the safe is exposed to fire. For those things to be OK in a fire, you'll need a Media Safe. Those keep the contents cooler during a fire so they don't melt.



FF

Anti Federalist
01-29-2009, 09:49 AM
guys, read the OP, he's worried about tarnishing, not "protecting" the PM's

LoL, yeah I fell into that trap as well.

The OP's questions: will the SAN plastic tarnish the silver? No, as another poster already mentioned, tarnishing is caused by oxidation. Remove the oxygen, and no tarnish.

Vacuum sealing? Yes, good idea, will also remove oxygen and prevent tarnishing.

robert4rp08
01-29-2009, 10:28 AM
I think the discoloration of Silver is due to Silver Oxide. The oxide formed when silver reacts with oxygen in the air. Remove the air and they should be fine.

The oxidation is what also makes newspaper clippings get yellow, they can be sealed up as well, as can personal photos.

Since some of you mentioned Safes, I thought I tell you a tidbit I didn't know about safes. There are FIRE Safes and MEDIA Safes. A Fire Safe will protect papers, but they will not protect CD/DVD/tapes if the safe is exposed to fire. For those things to be OK in a fire, you'll need a Media Safe. Those keep the contents cooler during a fire so they don't melt.



FF

Oxidation is definitely a problem. However, I've read that storage in PVC holders/flips/etc is also a problem because, over time, the PVC starts to break down and consequently hydrocholoric acid is released. I am not sure of the exact conditions needed for the PVC to break down-- I imagine heat, light, etc. Mylar is supposed to be the better alternative. (e.g., source 1 (http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=5194), source 2 (http://www.articlesbase.com/collecting-articles/handling-and-storing-your-bullion-coin-560353.html))

But yeah, still not sure about this #7 and SAN plastic.

robert4rp08
01-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Just found this information (http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=20377) about cleaning coins with acetone prior to storage. All organic materials are removed, e.g., oil, debris, without leaving residue. Supposedly 100% safe against damaging the metal.

fr33domfightr
01-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Oxidation is definitely a problem. However, I've read that storage in PVC holders/flips/etc is also a problem because, over time, the PVC starts to break down and consequently hydrocholoric acid is released. I am not sure of the exact conditions needed for the PVC to break down-- I imagine heat, light, etc. Mylar is supposed to be the better alternative. (e.g., source 1 (http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=5194), source 2 (http://www.articlesbase.com/collecting-articles/handling-and-storing-your-bullion-coin-560353.html))

But yeah, still not sure about this #7 and SAN plastic.


Your second source mentioned Coin Slabs. A quick lookup provided this link:

http://www.air-tites.com/Coin_World_Coin_Slabs.htm

Use the Coin Slab, place in 1 or 2 vaccuum sealing bags with a dessicant, and store in a cool dark place. That's got to be good for at least a thousand years, or more.


Edit: FYI, I thought I might add this comment regarding storing CD/DVDs. Standard Manufactured CD/DVDs contain an aluminum layer that oxidizes over time and can make a disk unreadable (even just after 5-10 years). Proper storage of those with vacuum bags is probably necessary as well. I don't know about CD-Rs or DVD-Rs which use dyes. This is important to protect family photos, etc.


FF

Mort
01-29-2009, 11:49 AM
With all this put a gps bug in a safe advice. Did anyone realize it is going to be hard to transmit a signal through the safe?

lucius
01-29-2009, 01:28 PM
No safe etc., read this book; it may give you ideas (it is not as bad as the comments--those guys are into hard-core military-like caches).

How To Hide Anything: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4611849/How_To_Hide_Anything_

Elwar
01-29-2009, 01:46 PM
You should just leave your coins out in the open along with other candy gold coins to make it look like your coins are just candy.

Anti Federalist
01-29-2009, 03:11 PM
You should just leave your coins out in the open along with other candy gold coins to make it look like your coins are just candy.

Best...Diversion Safe...Ever!!!:D

http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/skidbriefsafe.jpg

The “Brief Safe” is an innovative diversion safe that can secure your cash, documents, and other small valuables from inquisitive eyes and thieving hands, both at home and when you’re traveling. Items can be hidden right under their noses with these specially-designed briefs which contain a fly-accessed 4″ x 10″ secret compartment with Velcro® closure and “special markings” on the lower rear portion.

Leave the “Brief Safe” in plain view in your laundry basket or washing machine at home, or in your suitcase in a hotel room — even the most hardened burglar or most curious snoop will “skid” to a screeching halt as soon as they see them — wouldn’t you? Made in USA. One size. Color: White (and Brown).

Call Me V
01-29-2009, 04:04 PM
In your home right next to a 9mm.

robert4rp08
01-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Your second source mentioned Coin Slabs. A quick lookup provided this link:

http://www.air-tites.com/Coin_World_Coin_Slabs.htm

Use the Coin Slab, place in 1 or 2 vaccuum sealing bags with a dessicant, and store in a cool dark place. That's got to be good for at least a thousand years, or more.


Edit: FYI, I thought I might add this comment regarding storing CD/DVDs. Standard Manufactured CD/DVDs contain an aluminum layer that oxidizes over time and can make a disk unreadable (even just after 5-10 years). Proper storage of those with vacuum bags is probably necessary as well. I don't know about CD-Rs or DVD-Rs which use dyes. This is important to protect family photos, etc.


FF

Thanks for that site. Nice. I posted this question on a coin forum and got an interesting reply related to your 'Edit' comment. They suggested putting coins in an air tight container, vacuum sealed bag, etc., then wrapping that in aluminum foil. This acts as a barrier of air getting to your coin and will absorb any air impurities before it gets to your coin.

robert4rp08
01-29-2009, 04:31 PM
Best...Diversion Safe...Ever!!!:D

http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/skidbriefsafe.jpg

The “Brief Safe” is an innovative diversion safe that can secure your cash, documents, and other small valuables from inquisitive eyes and thieving hands, both at home and when you’re traveling. Items can be hidden right under their noses with these specially-designed briefs which contain a fly-accessed 4″ x 10″ secret compartment with Velcro® closure and “special markings” on the lower rear portion.

Leave the “Brief Safe” in plain view in your laundry basket or washing machine at home, or in your suitcase in a hotel room — even the most hardened burglar or most curious snoop will “skid” to a screeching halt as soon as they see them — wouldn’t you? Made in USA. One size. Color: White (and Brown).

OMG that's priceless. hahaahha

Ninja Homer
01-29-2009, 08:39 PM
No safe etc., read this book; it may give you ideas (it is not as bad as the comments--those guys are into hard-core military-like caches).

How To Hide Anything: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4611849/How_To_Hide_Anything_

Thanks. This one looks good too: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4098106/Smuggling__amp__Caching_Books_Collection

lucius
01-29-2009, 09:08 PM
Thanks. This one looks good too: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4098106/Smuggling__amp__Caching_Books_Collection

x_Dont_Tread_On_Me_x has exceptional materials--one torrent is almost the complete collection of paladin press books. Thanks!

fr33domfightr
01-29-2009, 10:01 PM
x_Dont_Tread_On_Me_x has exceptional materials--one torrent is almost the complete collection of paladin press books. Thanks!

Paladin Press...Sweet! :D


Regarding the use of bittorrent, any recommendations on a Windows Vista client? My old computer didn't support this protocol, but with my new PC I can use it now.

I found this at wikipedia, so many to choose from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_client


Thanks,
FF

Ninja Homer
01-29-2009, 11:37 PM
x_Dont_Tread_On_Me_x has exceptional materials--one torrent is almost the complete collection of paladin press books. Thanks!

Wow, you're right, all kinds of goodies!

Ninja Homer
01-29-2009, 11:39 PM
Paladin Press...Sweet! :D


Regarding the use of bittorrent, any recommendations on a Windows Vista client? My old computer didn't support this protocol, but with my new PC I can use it now.

I found this at wikipedia, so many to choose from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_client


Thanks,
FF

I have XP, but I use http://utorrent.com. Tiny program, easy install, and it has always worked flawlessly for me. It says it's compatible with Vista.