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Dustancostine
01-28-2009, 05:23 PM
This memo has been made available at all of the Texas district organizational meetings so I thought I would post it here because it might help out with those who want to start their own state organizations (as we are doing in Texas).

FROM: JOHN F. TATE

SUBJECT: C4L STATE ORGANIZATION PLAN

As a national grassroots organization striving for bottom-up cooperation and looking to avoid a rigid, top-down structure, Campaign for Liberty will work with organizations in individual states on education, training and lobbying projects.

Our goal is to support true grassroots action by aiding our supporters and activists with independent organizations in each state having complete autonomy.

Any state organizations formed will be independent and will not be legally affiliated with the national Campaign for Liberty organization.

The Campaign for Liberty will continue appointing state coordinators for its national organization.

State Coordinators will have the autonomy to facilitate grass roots organization in any way they choose, conforming with state and federal law and in accordance with Campaign for Liberty guidelines. The Campaign for Liberty will provide appropriate support and cooperate with State Coordinators and their efforts.

Campaign for Liberty can remove or replace a State Coordinator designation at any time.

Our intention is to help the state coordinators organize and establish their own independent State organizations, when they determine it is advisable. We know that every state, every county, every locality is different and what works in Michigan may not work in Alabama. While members in Michigan may choose to set up a separate state organization supporters in Texas may choose not to set up such an organization and instead simply work through the national organization.

In addition, there must be, and are, certain guidelines established for the use of the Campaign for Liberty name and logo.

The Campaign for Liberty name and logo will be trademarked.

When a state’s leaders determine they are sufficiently organized they will provide to the national Campaign for Liberty organization a letter requesting official recognition, along with a list of proposed Board members, a proposed organizational structure and a strategic plan for the following 12 months.

Once approved by Campaign for Liberty the state leader may be aided with drafting bylaws, incorporation papers, certification of 501(c)4 status, and other items as mutually agreed upon. Once recognized, they may use the Campaign for Liberty name and logo as a “friend of/partner with Campaign for Liberty”.

Campaign for Liberty reserves the right to revoke such recognition at any time.

All officially recognized State organizations may receive support and financial assistance from C4L based on need, legitimacy of the request and the availability of funds, staff and materials.

This support and aid may consist of (but is not necessarily limited to): fundraising help, communications with C4L members on behalf of the state organization; copy writing, issue promotion, materials, speakers, news releases, and direct financial aid.

The mission of C4L as previously stated is to Promote and Defend:

Individual Liberty
Constitutional Government
Sound Money
Free Markets
Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy

Specific issues will come and go over time, however, there are some issues that C4L should promote on both the federal and state levels.

In general we will look at state groups that are fighting on issues that by merely fighting the battle (whether we win or lose) will:

a) Mobilize our supporters, increase membership and energize our base
b) Generate financial support and otherwise help C4L and our allies
c) In some way cause harm to the opposition
d) Help, in the long run, achieve public policy consistent with the mission of C4L

Ultimately, the state activists, independent state organizations and C4L grass roots operations will decide for themselves what issues to promote and oppose in their own states. The goal of National C4L will be to aid them when we are in agreement by providing resources, training, materials and possibly funding to fight these battles.

We are in no position to fight EVERY battle, and will have to look at each battle individually to determine our level of involvement.

Obviously the top issues will change in every state, and nationally, as Congress, the Obama Administration and the state legislatures pursue their own agendas. Campaign for Liberty must be in a position to change our legislative agenda accordingly, without chasing after every barking dog.

Therefore, we must remain focused, on message and prepared to promote our agenda, not only respond to the agenda of the other side.

By concentrating our efforts in only those areas that make us stronger and promote good public policy, we will continue to grow stronger, more effective and become a major force to be reckoned with for years to come.

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Fascinating

Imperial
01-28-2009, 06:51 PM
Nice to see. I would like to see some guarantee about state coordinators eventually relinquishing to elections, but this will work. That could be circumvented though if you had a decent coordinator who agreed to hold elections and would resign if they lost.

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Would you be willing to forward me the actual e-mail?

LibertyEagle
01-28-2009, 08:53 PM
Would you be willing to forward me the actual e-mail?

Why?

Melissa
01-28-2009, 09:03 PM
It is accurate, all state coordinators got same email. So get started in your own state to figure out what kind of state org your state wants

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 09:29 PM
Why?Call me cynical but I just like to see e-mail headers.


I wonder why this wasn't sent out to TN? :confused:

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 09:30 PM
So get started in your own state to figure out what kind of state org your state wantsWe're having our first state-wide organizational meeting on Saturday. 75+ people are already registered and Rand Paul will be there too.


And what kind of choices do we have for organization?

Melissa
01-28-2009, 09:35 PM
We're having our first state-wide organizational meeting on Saturday. 75+ people are already registered and Rand Paul will be there too.


And what kind of choices do we have for organization?

Whatever kind fits your states needs and the people in your state agree to

LibertyEagle
01-28-2009, 09:37 PM
Call me cynical but I just like to see e-mail headers.
Dustan has been in this movement for as long, or longer, than you have, Matt, and he is very active in Texas.


I wonder why this wasn't sent out to TN? :confused:
Cool it with the :confused:. It's way past ridiculous. We can all make a guess, but the reality is, that none of us really knows. So, if you have a question for C4L, go ask them, Matt. Unless your intention is really to spread doubt.

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 09:45 PM
Cool it with the :confused:. It's way past ridiculous. We can all make a guess, but the reality is, that none of us really knows. So, if you have a question for C4L, go ask them, Matt. Unless your intention is really to spread doubt.No of course it's not. And why are you trying to pick a fight with me at every opportunity? :confused::rolleyes:

newbitech
01-28-2009, 11:16 PM
fascinating indeed. I'd like to know the date this email was sent and how far it has spread.

I am particularly interested to know what kinds of discussions have come up around these:



In general we will look at state groups that are fighting on issues that by merely fighting the battle (whether we win or lose) will:

a) Mobilize our supporters, increase membership and energize our base
b) Generate financial support and otherwise help C4L and our allies
c) In some way cause harm to the opposition
d) Help, in the long run, achieve public policy consistent with the mission of C4L


a) pretty clear this has always been a focus of the grassroots, glad to see C4L make this part of the mission!
b) this is a little sketchy. I'd like to see local money stay local. Also like to know who decides who is an ally on local and state levels.
c) Very sketchy. This can be taken so many ways.
d) I am sure in the long run we'd all like to achieve public policy consistent with the constitution.

overall, its nice to see so language taking shape. I'd say keep working on it though and continue to be open to input from the grassroots. National shouldn't be afraid to let the local issues drive the national issues. We need to focus on what appear to be common issue to us all.

Lets make a push for income tax elimination, this is becoming popular.
Lets make a push for INCREASING regulation and oversite... On the FED and treasury. This is becoming popular.
Lets focus on the successful messages that have made it through the media white wash.

Only the national campaign will have the input to see what is common on the local levels. National Campaign ought to sponsor more polls. National campaign ought to use that voter list and donation list to send out communication thanking people for their continued support. National ought to be more active in gathering data from the base rather than focusing so much on lobbying efforts and generating revenues. My 2 cents.

And

lol

:confused::rolleyes:

Matt Collins
01-28-2009, 11:30 PM
overall, its nice to see so language taking shape.I agree, now if we could just see some hard and fast rules come out specifically by-laws, binding documents, etc it would give a much better overall understanding. But this did help even though it isn't binding.

Dustancostine
01-29-2009, 12:52 AM
Would you be willing to forward me the actual e-mail?

I did not receive it as an email from the CFL but as a printed memo at our district meetings.

In Texas we are meeting to decide what type of organization to form. The national CFL is not helping with this, we are doing all on our own (time and money). This memo was provided to us by our State CFL Coordinator after it was sent to her, to guide us in the process of forming our organization.

The point of the memo is that you are responsible for forming your own state organization. You can do it how you please, and as long as your org and the CFL agree, then you can apply to become affiliated with the CFL and use their logo. The CFL is not going to tell you what to do, although I am sure that your state CFL coordinators will help you out and lend valuable guidance. This is a great bottom up strategy by the CFL, as you can tailor your state organization to fit the needs of your state structures.

(For Matt Collins) The only part of the memo I left out was the following:

January 8, 2009

MEMORANDUM

TO: C4L STAFF, C4L STATE COORDINATORS

I am guessing that it was sent via email to staff and state coordinators on that day or the day before.

FYI, For those that want to know, this is what we are doing in Texas. (Jeremy correct me if I am wrong).

At the Rally for the Republic, the summit attendees from each CD in Texas held a meeting after the summit, at that meeting we decided to call mass meetings to determine whether or not we wanted a state liberty organization in Texas.

It was decided that four individuals would coordinate these meetings. They were charged with holding regional meetings (Texas is big!) that would elect delegates to a state convention. At the state convention the delegates from the regional meetings would determine if we are to form a state organization, and what type of organization it will be and what the bylaws/constitution will look like, and hopefully if it is the will of the majority, ratify it.

All of these meeting are being held via Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised and is open to anybody whatsoever, as long as they participate in the correct Regional meeting in which they vote in.

So far we have held 6 regional meetings, Dallas, Waco, San Antonio, McAllen, Houston and El Paso, and have one to go, Lubbock. I am guessing but combined we probably have had around 700 attend these meetings, we are hoping the attendance to the state meeting (which is open to the public, only dels can vote) will be around 500.

Hope this Helps.

--Dustan

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 05:09 AM
No of course it's not. And why are you trying to pick a fight with me at every opportunity? :confused::rolleyes:

Stop whining and you likely won't see me commenting to you.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 10:01 AM
Stop whining, you likely won't see me commenting to you.Good.... if you never respond to another post of mine it'll make me very happy

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 10:15 AM
Good.... if you never respond to another post of mine it'll make me very happy

Ah, but the condition is that you stop whining.

pennycat
01-29-2009, 10:30 AM
I did not receive it as an email from the CFL but as a printed memo at our district meetings.

In Texas we are meeting to decide what type of organization to form. The national CFL is not helping with this, we are doing all on our own (time and money). This memo was provided to us by our State CFL Coordinator after it was sent to her, to guide us in the process of forming our organization.

The point of the memo is that you are responsible for forming your own state organization. You can do it how you please, and as long as your org and the CFL agree, then you can apply to become affiliated with the CFL and use their logo. The CFL is not going to tell you what to do, although I am sure that your state CFL coordinators will help you out and lend valuable guidance. This is a great bottom up strategy by the CFL, as you can tailor your state organization to fit the needs of your state structures.

(For Matt Collins) The only part of the memo I left out was the following:

January 8, 2009

MEMORANDUM

TO: C4L STAFF, C4L STATE COORDINATORS

I am guessing that it was sent via email to staff and state coordinators on that day or the day before.

FYI, For those that want to know, this is what we are doing in Texas. (Jeremy correct me if I am wrong).

At the Rally for the Republic, the summit attendees from each CD in Texas held a meeting after the summit, at that meeting we decided to call mass meetings to determine whether or not we wanted a state liberty organization in Texas.

It was decided that four individuals would coordinate these meetings. They were charged with holding regional meetings (Texas is big!) that would elect delegates to a state convention. At the state convention the delegates from the regional meetings would determine if we are to form a state organization, and what type of organization it will be and what the bylaws/constitution will look like, and hopefully if it is the will of the majority, ratify it.

All of these meeting are being held via Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised and is open to anybody whatsoever, as long as they participate in the correct Regional meeting in which they vote in.

So far we have held 6 regional meetings, Dallas, Waco, San Antonio, McAllen, Houston and El Paso, and have one to go, Lubbock. I am guessing but combined we probably have had around 700 attend these meetings, we are hoping the attendance to the state meeting (which is open to the public, only dels can vote) will be around 500.

Hope this Helps.

--Dustan

Having experienced the heavy hand of Washington style top-down management from CFL, I would suggest an independent Liberty movement. The memo states that national CFL can remove anyone they want.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 12:35 PM
The memo states that national CFL can remove anyone they want.But a memo is not a binding document nor is it the by-laws. I want to see what the official texts have to say. While a memo is great, it isn't binding.

Melissa
01-29-2009, 12:38 PM
But a memo is not a binding document nor is it the by-laws. I want to see what the official texts have to say. While a memo is great, it isn't binding.

well since the states are independent why don't you focus on that and you can put whatever bylaws in place that your state agrees too.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 01:04 PM
well since the states are independent why don't you focus on that and you can put whatever bylaws in place that your state agrees too.Oh absolutely. And we are working towards that end right now. We've got a state CFL event on Saturday and Rand will be there too.

But what good will it do us if we pass our own rules and by-laws just to later find out it doesn't jive with what the national CFL wants thus we can't get "recognized"?

Melissa
01-29-2009, 01:07 PM
Oh absolutely. And we are working towards that end right now. We've got a state CFL event on Saturday and Rand will be there too.

But what good will it do us if we pass our own rules and by-laws just to later find out it doesn't jive with what the national CFL wants thus we can't get "recognized"?

as long as the state bylaws don't contradict the national bylaws I think you are safe and if you ask again about them, they are working on them, talk to your state coordinator they have most of the details

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 01:21 PM
as long as the state bylaws don't contradict the national bylaws I think you are safe And how are we supposed to know if they contradict them?!!? :confused:


they are working on them, talk to your state coordinator they have most of the detailsI am friends with my ISC, we meet often and trust me he is unable to answer the questions I am asking.

TN is ready to get their organization together, in fact we are having a large meeting on Saturday about it. But we can't put anything down on paper because we don't know exactly what the national binding documents are.

Melissa
01-29-2009, 01:23 PM
And how are we supposed to know if they contradict them?!!? :confused:

I am friends with my ISC, we meet often and trust me he is unable to answer the questions I am asking.

TN is ready to get their organization together, in fact we are having a large meeting on Saturday about it. But we can't put anything down on paper because we don't know exactly what the national binding documents are.

Well if Rand Paul is going to be there ask him, he should be able to help.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 01:32 PM
Well if Rand Paul is going to be there ask him, he should be able to help.I plan to... but I don't see his name on the CFL leadership page.

Melissa
01-29-2009, 01:35 PM
I plan to... but I don't see his name on the CFL leadership page.

Well I am betting if he don't know where to get the answer you sure arn't going to find it here on the forums either so if you question asking him why do you continue to ask in here. The forums here (I am betting) are not on the CFL leadership pages either

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Well I am betting if he don't know where to get the answer you sure arn't going to find it here on the forums either so if you question asking him why do you continue to ask in here. The forums here (I am betting) are not on the CFL leadership pages eitherActually I have asked Debbie Hopper a CFL leader in another thread. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176051&page=4

Now all I hear are cricket chirps... why is that?

Sandra
01-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Actually I have asked Debbie Hopper a CFL leader in another thread. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176051&page=4

Now all I hear are cricket chirps... why is that?

Maybe it's because ... YOU ASKED ON HERE AGAIN. ASK ON C4L. You are using another RPF as a reference? Really?

Dustancostine
01-29-2009, 02:19 PM
Matt, Just have Tennessee organize however it feels appropriate for you and worry about official CFL recognition later. That is what is going on in Texas, we are going to form an organization (or decide not to) based on what we want for our state, not what the CFL wants or what they CFL dictates. We are organizing first, worrying about the CFL later. If you and the people active in Tenn do the same and your ISC is on board then you will have nothing to worry about.

Not saying this is the case, but people in general should not complain that the CFL isn't giving them instruction and then complain that they are top down. Do what you need to do in Tennessee to spread liberty and freedom, only the people in Tennessee know what that is.

--Dustan

Melissa
01-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Matt, Just have Tennessee organize however it feels appropriate for you and worry about official CFL recognition later. That is what is going on in Texas, we are going to form an organization (or decide not to) based on what we want for our state, not what the CFL wants or what they CFL dictates. We are organizing first, worrying about the CFL later. If you and the people active in Tenn do the same and your ISC is on board then you will have nothing to worry about.

Not saying this is the case, but people in general should not complain that the CFL isn't giving them instruction and then complain that they are top down. Do what you need to do in Tennessee to spread liberty and freedom, only the people in Tennessee know what that is.

--Dustan

+ billion............ this is all you need to know Matt and start working on

angelatc
01-29-2009, 02:49 PM
Dustan has been in this movement for as long, or longer, than you have, Matt, and he is very active in Texas.


Cool it with the :confused:. It's way past ridiculous. We can all make a guess, but the reality is, that none of us really knows. So, if you have a question for C4L, go ask them, Matt. Unless your intention is really to spread doubt.

So now that you chased Bradley off, you're going to stalk Matt?

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 02:50 PM
this is all you need to know Matt and start working onSo now you get to decide what I "need to know"? :confused::rolleyes:

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Maybe it's because ... YOU ASKED ON HERE AGAIN. That's because Debbie and I were having a conversation on here.... And then all of the sudden she stopped responding.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 02:53 PM
Matt, do you realize that you are harassing anyone who make a thread about the CFL?

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 02:54 PM
So now that you chased Bradley off, you're going to stalk Matt?

:rolleyes:

angelatc
01-29-2009, 02:58 PM
:rolleyes:

I have my emoticons blocked.

You're in this thread because......?

Sandra
01-29-2009, 02:59 PM
I have my emoticons blocked.

You're in this thread because......?

Wait... who's the moderator?

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 03:00 PM
Matt, Just have Tennessee organize however it feels appropriate for you and worry about official CFL recognition later. That doesn't make any sense because then it'll have to go back and get redone if not up to the standards set by CFL-HQ. Why go through the effort just to possibly have to revisit it in a few months or a couple of years?

Why not just do it right the first time?



That is what is going on in Texas, we are going to form an organization (or decide not to) based on what we want for our state, not what the CFL wants or what they CFL dictates. We are organizing first, worrying about the CFL later. If you and the people active in Tenn do the same and your ISC is on board then you will have nothing to worry about.And if the CFL decides later on it doesn't like what you have done and wants you to completely redo it?

Having a wishy-washy idea that no foundation is needed is very dangerous for the future of the organization. And in fact it makes zero logical sense.


Not saying this is the case, but people in general should not complain that the CFL isn't giving them instruction and then complain that they are top down. You're absolutely right. There has to be a basic framework to work within if they want any coehesiveness whatsoever. We don't want top-down control of course, but there has to be SOMETHINGcoming from the top. Otherwise why even bother to have a national HQ? :confused:


Do what you need to do in Tennessee to spread liberty and freedom, only the people in Tennessee know what that is. I agree. But while doing it under the CFL banner it would be nice to know what the CFL is. So far no binding documents about the organization.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 03:01 PM
Matt, do you realize that you are harassing anyone who make a thread about the CFL?Not so. I am however asking questions and seeking knowledge.

angelatc
01-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Wait... who's the moderator?

And you are....?.

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 03:11 PM
I have my emoticons blocked.

You're in this thread because......?

Probably for the same reason you are here. I chose to be.

I must have missed the memo about needing to ask your permission. :rolleyes:

angelatc
01-29-2009, 03:14 PM
I am here because I wanted to read the message the Texan posted.

I am posting here to point out that you now have an obsession with instigating Matt.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 03:18 PM
I am here because I wanted to read the message the Texan posted.

I am posting here to point out that you now have an obsession with instigating Matt.


No, Matt has consistantly posted to harass pro CFL thread posters. And there you are in tandem with Matt, always.

angelatc
01-29-2009, 03:22 PM
No, Matt has consistantly posted to harass pro CFL thread posters. And there you are in tandem with Matt, always.

Ok, you I can put on ignore.

Just for a little while, as we usually agree.

Melissa
01-29-2009, 03:27 PM
So now you get to decide what I "need to know"? :confused::rolleyes:

Ok now I will be one more person in a leadership position that will stop talking to you, and you wonder why no one wants to answer anything from you, I was trying to help and then you say something smart, you win, wont try to answer your questions anymore will let you just post in RPF to your hearts content with having no one answering your questions so you can just keep complaining how wonderful you are and the CFL leadership is horrible, but remember Dr. Paul's message about blowback, I think you are proof why it happens

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Uh, Angela, I live in Texas. In case you didn't notice. Sooooo, a thread about what's happening in TEXAS just might be of a little interest to me. :rolleyes:

Dustancostine
01-29-2009, 03:36 PM
That doesn't make any sense because then it'll have to go back and get redone if not up to the standards set by CFL-HQ.

Why would you redo your state organization if the CFL didn't like it but it was working? Why would the CFL ask you to change your organization if it is working? They won't. Build something that works and you'll be fine.



And if the CFL decides later on it doesn't like what you have done and wants you to completely redo it?

If the CFL has a problem with our organization in Texas, then they will have to get over it. I don't see that as happening as Ron has personally endorsed our meetings and our ISC is on the board of the CFL.

The grassroots in Texas has built a strong relationship with each other through the campaign and the Republican Convention process. We are more tired to each other than the CFL. If we build something good and the CFL doesn't recognize it then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Besides what is more important building an organization that will be effective in spreading liberty and freedom and getting people elected, or having recognition from the CFL?

Melissa
01-29-2009, 03:42 PM
Why would you redo your state organization if the CFL didn't like it but it was working? Why would the CFL ask you to change your organization if it is working? They won't. Build something that works and you'll be fine.




If the CFL has a problem with our organization in Texas, then they will have to get over it. I don't see that as happening as Ron has personally endorsed our meetings and our ISC is on the board of the CFL.

The grassroots in Texas has built a strong relationship with each other through the campaign and the Republican Convention process. We are more tired to each other than the CFL. If we build something good and the CFL doesn't recognize it then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Besides what is more important building an organization that will be effective in spreading liberty and freedom and getting people elected, or having recognition from the CFL?


amazing insight, wonder if I should bet on how long before someone still has complaints even after reading this (or maybe I should bet on who will be still complaining)

Please continue doing what you are doing sounds like Texas is doing a great job and I think your ISC is awesome

Sandra
01-29-2009, 03:48 PM
I sure hope it spreads geographically... to Shreveport, Baton Rouge, then outward. The fervor died down from the masses to the few.

Shout out to torchbearer!

Austin
01-29-2009, 04:14 PM
smh

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 04:16 PM
Ok now I will be one more person in a leadership position that will stop talking to you, I don't see why. But no big loss on my part apparently. Oh and just curious what leadership position do you occupy?


keep complaining how wonderful you are and the CFL leadership is horribleYou obviously haven't read many of my posts. Or you are being intentionally dishonest.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 04:26 PM
No, Matt has consistantly posted to harass pro CFL thread posters. Absolutely not. I'm "pro CFL".... you should really get to understand the situation before you libel them.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 04:43 PM
Why would you redo your state organization if the CFL didn't like it but it was working?Because to be a part of the CFL we would have to fit to their standards.



Why would the CFL ask you to change your organization if it is working? They won't. Build something that works and you'll be fine.You don't know that. I don't know that. No one know knows why they would want to do that. That's why we need some binding documents so we can have a clue as to what to expect.






If the CFL has a problem with our organization in Texas, then they will have to get over it. I don't see that as happening as Ron has personally endorsed our meetings and our ISC is on the board of the CFL.The 49 other states don't reside where Ron is unfortunately.



If we build something good and the CFL doesn't recognize it then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. I would like to think so, I mean we all would, but it pays to be skeptical. Afterall we have evidence of this when they just expelled two major leaders of the liberty movement in Florida.


Besides what is more important building an organization that will be effective in spreading liberty and freedom and getting people elected, or having recognition from the CFL?Absolutely right. But the CFL is the best organization with the most potential right now to nationally advance the cause of liberty. Why? Because it's non-partisan and is the result of the RP '08 campaign.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Anyone want to post bets on Matt's removal from the CFL? I'm guessing 1 week.

michigan wolverine
01-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Matt if you don't like what CFL is doing resign. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you have to join.

You said you wanted to be like your buddy in Orlando. Well mission accomplished. You have nothing but compaints about CFL. You offer nothing positive. And you insist on playing the victim card.

Quit and try and get a life.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 05:43 PM
Anyone want to post bets on Matt's removal from the CFL? I'm guessing 1 week.Why would I be removed? I haven't done or said anything against the rules... oh wait... no one knows what the rules are... :(



Matt if you don't like what CFL is doing resign. The only thing they have don't I don't like is arbitrarily expel two fellow patriots in Florida.

But everythign in my State is going fine... of course we need some binding documents from CFL-HQ to know how we should organize.




You have nothing but compaints about CFL. You offer nothing positive. And you insist on playing the victim card. That is incorrect. I am actually heading up the majority of the activity in my State. Why do you make ignorant and untrue statements?


Quit and try and get a life.Hmm... a personal attack. I should've expected nothing more from you.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 05:55 PM
Why would I be removed? I haven't done or said anything against the rules... oh wait... no one knows what the rules are... :(


The only thing they have don't I don't like is arbitrarily expel two fellow patriots in Florida.

But everythign in my State is going fine... of course we need some binding documents from CFL-HQ to know how we should organize.



That is incorrect. I am actually heading up the majority of the activity in my State. Why do you make ignorant and untrue statements?

Hmm... a personal attack. I should've expected nothing more from you.

You quoted me as saying the things that wolverine did. Please change it.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 06:16 PM
You quoted me as saying the things that wolverine did. Please change it.You're right... sorry about that... it was not intentional.

newbitech
01-29-2009, 06:28 PM
Matt if you don't like what CFL is doing resign. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you have to join.

You said you wanted to be like your buddy in Orlando. Well mission accomplished. You have nothing but compaints about CFL. You offer nothing positive. And you insist on playing the victim card.

Quit and try and get a life.


i'm shocked at the sentiment in this and the post above. the simple answer to matts question is there is no national organization for this movement. i don't know why people are so willing to attack matt for doing to C4L leadership what we all are doing to our local, state, and national governments. these comments against matt and nick and FL supprters reeks of opportunism if not outright hypocrisy.

if anyone took the time to understand what happened at the FL state level, as well as the local orlando level, they would understand that the original post are words that went exactly opposite of the actions taken by C4L HQ to INFLUENCE what is happening in the FL non-existent CFL and Orlando non-existent C4L.

Everyone here going against matt so far has failed to realize the negative impact that the National C4L has had on liberty organizations that are not only fighting incumbent GOP power elite, but now apparently fighting the C4L itself for political influence. National C4L has stepped on the toes of those local and state organizations in FL. IN fact national C4L has kicked FL organizers and FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTORS in the the groin!

And there has been absolutely NO explanation for this. NONE. In fact there hasn't even been any recognition that this has occurred other than what Matt has brought to the table. Yet here you have other LEADERS telling FL if they don't like it tough titties!

There is no remedy for the 62k+ people who supported Ron Paul in FL. We can't form our organization how we want, because if we do something that C4L doesn't like, ie: bringing lawsuits against the GOP for banning Ron Paul supporters, influencing the GOP meetings with overwhelming numbers and brute political force, question our "state leadership" of the FL non-existent C4L for asking for money to support his run AND getting Ron Paul's endorsement only to toss that support to the very incumbent that is on the defensive side of the lawsuit Mr. Greer at the last minute in exchange for more lip service and the possibility that his party might include us some time in the future.

Tell us what we CAN DO, put it in writing, and make it a part of the rules FOR EVERYONE! That's all this is about!

If none of the other "leaders" are interested in what is happening in FL and Orlando, fine go along your merry way with your local issues. But have some integrity and maturity in your arguments. Think about this, if we fail to hold the leadership of our own movement accountable, if we fail to support each other across county and state lines, then how are we going to even think about taking back our federal government?

Please remember that our country was not founded by a bunch of little cities and states gaining autonomy from the King. They had to work together and get behind the same issues that impacted ALL of them. All of this talk about taking care of your state and your county sounds good but if the end result is 50 different groups with 57 different issues ties loosely together by a lobbying corp, then we will have failed miserably.

Bottom line, if we can't APPLY the values and principles of our own message to our own ACTIONS and our own campaign, then we don't deserve a national stage.

Here's a few basic questions for anyone that I challenge to answer. If C4L is a corporation, then what is it's tax ID? Where is it's state filiing? Where is it's articles incorporation? Why would dues paying members need additional permission to affiliate themselves with the organization they are a member of? What legal grounds do C4L staffers have to revoke the membership of someone who pays their dues? Does that person get a refund? Basic Basic questions.

If this was the republican party wouldn't we ask similar questions?

Sandra
01-29-2009, 06:32 PM
Newbitech, you, Matt and Nick go start your own thing and quit your simpering whines in the Ron Paul Forums. It doesn't belong here.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 06:34 PM
i don't know why people are so willing to attack matt for doing to C4L leadership what we all are doing to our local, state, and national governmentsBecause some people cannot get over their petty personal vendetta against me





Here's a few basic questions for anyone that I challenge to answer. If C4L is a corporation, then what is it's tax ID? Where is it's state filiing? Where is it's articles incorporation? Why would dues paying members need additional permission to affiliate themselves with the organization they are a member of? What legal grounds do C4L staffers have to revoke the membership of someone who pays their dues? Does that person get a refund? Basic Basic questions.
What are the by-laws.

I definitely don't want to get expelled from the organization, so I need to know what rules to not violate. I need to know what the boundaries are. A basic framework is needed. Where is it? We are libertarians, not anarchists.

newbitech
01-29-2009, 06:37 PM
Newbitech, you, Matt and Nick go start your own thing and quit your simpering whines in the Ron Paul Forums. It doesn't belong here.

excuse me? is there a problem? is this your proposed solution?

I don't understand what you are trying to say with a post like this. I can certainly understand why 9/11 truth supporters would get this kind of response on the grassroots board during the campaign, but this topic most certainly belongs here. I wish it didn't bother you so much, and I can understand why it wouldn't interest you, but calling this discussion simpering whines? The condescending quality of your words? How is that merited by someone aspiring to be a leader in the movement of liberty?

I have done nothing to deserve to be addressed by you in this manner. I respectfully request that you abstain from invoking your right to reply to me or continue to comment on this subject on the condition that you continue to treat me like I am some kind of jerk.

Now, care to answer the questions or point me in the right direction? FYI, I have done my due diligence. I may or may not know the answers to the questions I asked. The challenge is, do you or anyone else know the answers?

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 06:44 PM
It doesn't belong here.And why is that?

michigan wolverine
01-29-2009, 07:54 PM
The 62000 people who voted for Ron Paul have an organization to turn to. It is the CFL if they so desire. Once again nobody is holding a gun to their head.

As for what happened in Florida two people chose a childish method to make their point. And after be warned they continued to do so. If CFL wants their group to operate in a civilized manner that have the right to remove anyone who does not meet their expectations.

Quite frankly from what Matt has posted from the newspaper in Florida it would appear to be the right move. From what I remember of the articles I saw nothing but childish behavior painting all Ron Paul Suppoters in a bad light.

heath.whiteaker
01-29-2009, 08:01 PM
uhhh and I guess you just make assumptions on your own with out knowing the facts.

michigan wolverine
01-29-2009, 08:17 PM
Matt and Nick have posted enough information that one can draw an educated conclusion as to what happened. They believe their information paints them in postive light. But it does not imho. Mr Tate's letter or email explains the reason for their removal. They just refuse to see the information. To paint all Ron Paul supporters as good just because they support Ron Paul is a bad idea. Some people do more harm than good.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 08:27 PM
uhhh and I guess you just make assumptions on your own with out knowing the facts.

The Orlando Sentinel wrote of their childish behavior. Embarrassing :(

newbitech
01-29-2009, 08:49 PM
The 62000 people who voted for Ron Paul have an organization to turn to. It is the CFL if they so desire. Once again nobody is holding a gun to their head. I didn't say anything about not having an organization to turn to. Please go back and re-read what I said. If you are talking about turning to the C4L in FL, well there is no C4L in FL. On what basis are you trying to convince me that the C4L exists in FL? Figuratively speaking, yes we do have guns to our heads considering the consequences of a runaway government with nothing to stand in the way!



As for what is happening in Florida the leaders of the C4L chose a childish method to make their point(s). And after be(ing) confronted with facts they choose to exercise their unilateral powers. If National C4L wants their members who pay dues and carry out their agenda on a local level to operate in an adult manner then National C4L has the right to treat their due paying members who carry out their agenda on a local level like adults and provide their members with governing rules of the organization that they are a part while holding each member accountable to those rules with equality. There I fixed it for you. Please be mindful of the difference between your opinions and facts that you are unaware or otherwise ignorant of. I do not mean to insult you, but I find your comments slightly abrasive and somewhat condescending and would prefer to use more gentleman like language when dealing with your comments. Especially since in your opinion it is childish to bring successful lawsuits against the GOP, hurt the people who stole a local election, hold our leaders accountable for their actions.


Quite frankly from what Matt has posted from the newspaper in Florida it would appear to be the right move. From what I remember of the articles I saw nothing but childish behavior painting all Ron Paul Suppoters in a bad light.Even though it was the wrong move? What from the "newspaper" in FL has you believing that what is happening isn't precisely the kind of activity that is required to move FL in the direction that Floridians think it should move in? What exactly did you see? You painting what you see as childish might be a solution. Let's assume for a second that your opinion is supported by facts. How do you kick a child out of the family for making a mistake? You do realize that is what you are advocating, right? Fact is, the action the C4L has taken in FL has been completely contrary to the principles it espouses.

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion, but if anyone would disregard facts then their opinion holds very little influence, especially in the arena of intellect and principled decision making.

newbitech
01-29-2009, 08:50 PM
The Orlando Sentinel wrote of their childish behavior. Embarrassing :(

and fox news called Ron Paul a kook. point?

heath.whiteaker
01-29-2009, 08:52 PM
and fox news called ron paul a kook. Point?

awesomeness.

LibertyEagle
01-29-2009, 09:06 PM
uhhh and I guess you just make assumptions on your own with out knowing the facts.

Heath, have you changed your position again? The last thing I saw from you was a blog post saying that Mark Cross was some kind of genius and that you had been wrong in your previous stance.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 09:18 PM
Heath, have you changed your position again? The last thing I saw from you was a blog post saying that Mark Cross was some kind of genius and that you had been wrong in your previous stance.I don't see this conversation being about Mark Cross. Who mentioned Mr. Cross? :confused:

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 09:23 PM
From what I remember of the articles I saw nothing but childish behavior painting all Ron Paul Suppoters in a bad light.


The Orlando Sentinel wrote of their childish behavior. Embarrassing :(


Have either of you ever lived in Orlando? Have either of you subscribed to the Orlando Sentinel? Have either of you ever read the Sentinel on a frequent basis?


While it's surprisingly better than most, a bastion of accuracy it is not.

Sandra
01-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Have either of you ever lived in Orlando? Have either of you subscribed to the Orlando Sentinel? Have either of you ever read the Sentinel on a frequent basis?


While it's surprisingly better than most, a bastion of accuracy it is not.

OMG. I guess the mode of damaging propaganda was not approved by Matt.

angelatc
01-29-2009, 09:35 PM
I don't see this conversation being about Mark Cross. Who mentioned Mr. Cross? :confused:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=9025

It is from another thread.

Matt Collins
01-29-2009, 09:42 PM
If CFL wants their group to operate in a civilized manner that have the right to remove anyone who does not meet their expectations.What rules did they violate? And what by-law allowed the leadership to remove them? Who makes that decision? Was there a vote taken?

I'm not pestering but asking legitimate questions that anyone in the CFL should want to know.

Dustancostine
01-29-2009, 11:54 PM
Because to be a part of the CFL we would have to fit to their standards.


You don't know that. I don't know that. No one know knows why they would want to do that. That's why we need some binding documents so we can have a clue as to what to expect.





The 49 other states don't reside where Ron is unfortunately.


I would like to think so, I mean we all would, but it pays to be skeptical. Afterall we have evidence of this when they just expelled two major leaders of the liberty movement in Florida.

Absolutely right. But the CFL is the best organization with the most potential right now to nationally advance the cause of liberty. Why? Because it's non-partisan and is the result of the RP '08 campaign.

Matt,

I don't know what else to tell you. This is what we are doing in Texas. This is what is working. We are not worried about the CFL, the CFL will not determine the success of liberty in Texas, the people of Texas will (while I do hope the CFL plays a significant role). I have given you all of the information that I have, I hope it helps.

Sitting around waiting until you get a satisfactory answer from the CFL will not be productive for you. Instead of waiting do something (which I am sure you haven't up to this point), form whatever organization you need in Tennessee. That is my advice.

--Dustan

ShannonOBrien
01-30-2009, 01:26 AM
The Orlando Sentinel wrote of their childish behavior. Embarrassing :(

What was the childish behavior? I've seen a couple of posts about the Orlando thing but it wasn't really clear to me what happened.

Imperial
01-30-2009, 05:30 AM
What an utterly pointless and rehashed argument going on here.

We have an idea of how CFL will work in individual states. Accept it or reject it.
Ask any questions you need to of it. Move on.

heath.whiteaker
01-30-2009, 09:30 AM
I thought we were talking about the orlando C4L crew... not Cross. I still am on board with what Mark did as I have already seen the benefits first hand.

pennycat
01-30-2009, 09:41 AM
Being one of the people who's name is getting trashed in this thread and others on RPF, I guess I should set the record straight.

1) Please go to my blog at http://nickegorofforlandopoliticalactivist.blogspot.com/ and read up on the background of this story.

2) 90% of the CFL people I've talked with, are upset about Mark Cross's actions and want him removed. I have asked repeatedly for CFL National HQ to allow an election on who they want to lead the CFL org in Florida. Debbie Hopper (VP Membership), Jesse Benton (Sr. VP), and John Tate (President) have all said absolutely no elections. They say that until more of the 6000 Florida members of CFL give National HQ $35 a piece, there will be no elections. Sounds like a hostage ransom payment to me!

3) Recently Florida CFL County and Congressional District Coordinators set up a pole amongst themselves to vote on Mr. Cross's continued leadership. Sixty-six percent voted for his removal. The rest voted to reprimand him, but to give him a second chance.

4) The CFL organizer that set up this pole was also removed by CFL HQ. I have been banned for life from CFL activities. No rules or bylaws were cited that we broke.

5) The idea that I and others in the Florida CFL should just go find some other organization to join is not logical. Remember that it was money that we contributed to the RP for president campaign that paid for this org. It's as if we had donated money, had it used for a purpose that we did not intend, and finally being told to get lost when we protest.

6) Tate, Benton, and Hopper talk about building a bottom-up grassroots organization, the opposite appears to be the case. They will be the sole deciders of who is fit to lead the various organizations. Again, this is being done with OUR money, and against our wishes.

7) National HQ has also taken exception to my strong criticism that they are squandering money on high salaried staff that have so far shown little results. Wow, I can only hope that they can take criticism at least as well as the US government. Imagine our surprise if after chastising Congress for wasteful spending we had our voting rights revoked.

8) It is widely held amongst Florida CFL members that Mr. Cross had done a terrible job in his leadership in RP 2008 campaign (as State Coordinator). He is repeating the same lack of action in the new CFL org (again as State Coordinator). In neither position was his selection put up for a vote or even input from folks on the ground considered.

What is happening in Florida is of importance to other states considering the CFL model. What started as a good idea has ended as a nightmare in Florida. We are held hostage by bureaucrats in Virginia that want to protect their own appointed State Coordinator who is disliked by the people he rules over.

Campaign for Liberty, if it wants to hold true to its principles, needs to amend its behavior.

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" Barry Goldwater in his 1964 Presidential Acceptance Speech

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 10:38 AM
2) 90% of the CFL people I've talked with, are upset about Mark Cross's actions and want him removed. I have asked repeatedly for CFL National HQ to allow an election on who they want to lead the CFL org in Florida. Debbie Hopper (VP Membership), Jesse Benton (Sr. VP), and John Tate (President) have all said absolutely no elections. They say that until more of the 6000 Florida members of CFL give National HQ $35 a piece, there will be no elections. Sounds like a hostage ransom payment to me!

Actually, Nick, that doesn't appear to be the truth. Mark is an interim state coordinator and from what I'm reading on the C4L website, the election to replace the interim state coordinator appears to be based on the precinct leaders in each state, rather than the sheer number of members, as you say above.


The Role of the Interim State Coordinator

Interim State Coordinators for the Campaign for Liberty are appointed by the Campaign for Liberty. The Interim State Coordinator has the authority to name Interim District and County Coordinators. The focus of the interim coordinators will be to recruit and train Precinct Leaders. Interim Coordinators are chosen based upon previous leadership experience and the ability to encourage and train others, while being good stewards of the liberty movement, being respectful of others and acting in a professional manner.

Once a sufficient number of Precinct Leaders are in place to constitute a statewide organization, a Campaign for Liberty partnership may be formed and leadership will be elected by partner members.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/kb.php


Ms. Hopper, right here on this website, told you the following:


"Interim Coordinators are chosen based upon previous leadership experience and the ability to encourage and train others, while being good stewards of the liberty movement, being respectful of others and acting in a professional manner.

Once a sufficient number of Precinct Leaders are in place to constitute a statewide organization, a Campaign for Liberty partnership may be formed and leadership will be elected by partner members."

In all of Florida, there are 83 Precinct Leaders. In the County where you were the Interim Coordinator, there are 6 - 4 that joined before you did and 2 after. Hardly enough to constitute a real statewide organization.

You were removed, not because you questioned anybody's authority but because you showed a decided lack of judgment in how you handled your disagreement with Mark, failing to show"respect of others" or "acting in a professional manner."

On top of that, you twisted the truth to suit your own purposes.

It's time to move on.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1929038&postcount=51


Why are you misconstruing the facts now? :(

And to be fair, here is the memo by John Tate (President of the C4L) regarding this issue that was sent out to all dues-paying members of Florida and that Ms. Hopper posted here, after as I recall, four separate threads were started on this issue.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1922717#post1922717

And here is the blog post that Heath Whiteaker from Florida, wrote about this issue. It is titled, "Mark Cross may be a genius".
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=9025
Apparently, he used to share your beliefs about Mr. Cross, but changed his mind as he got more information. One of the things he said was, "I was possibly one of the strongest critics about Mr. Cross' actions at the Chairman selection. I passed judgement without knowing all the facts. I passed judgement.... and I shouldn't have."


Campaign for Liberty, if it wants to hold true to its principles, needs to amend its behavior.
Nick, no offense, but does this apply to you too? Because as time goes on, it's starting to look more and more like a case of -- If I can't run it, I'll ruin it.

pennycat
01-30-2009, 10:54 AM
Libertyeagle there is only one way to settle this. Have a free and open election now. Most people in Florida want it. But National opposes it because they know Cross would lose. Let the people speak through the ballot box.

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Libertyeagle there is only one way to settle this. Have a free and open election now. Most people in Florida want it. But National opposes it because they know Cross would lose. Let the people speak through the ballot box.

They have told you why not, Nick. They want to have elections AFTER there is a decent base of precinct leaders.

Apparently you and the person whom Ron chose to be President of the C4L, do not see eye to eye on this. And it's unfortunate that because of how you chose to deal with this issue, you're no longer a member of C4L So, go do your own thing, Nick.. It's all about the grassroots anyway, right, and there is plenty of stuff to do in each of our states. The fact that you're no longer with C4L shouldn't stop you.

Again, it appears that Ron's appointee, John Tate, has decided this issue. It's done. Maybe it's time to move on.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Again, it appears that Ron's appointee, John Tate, has decided this issue. It's done. On what authority? What rule did Nick violate? What by-laws set the standard for giving someone the boot? And how can national kick someone out of an independent state organization? :confused:

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 12:46 PM
On what authority?
On Ron Paul's, I suppose. Ron is the one who chose John Tate to lead the C4L and it is John who made the decision.


What rule did Nick violate? What by-laws set the standard for giving someone the boot.
Read what John said. He told you why Nick was booted. Debbie reiterated.


And how can national kick someone out of an independent state organization? :confused:
Nick was kicked out of the C4L; not any independent thing you have going. These are two different things altogether.

You're not confused, Matt. You just want to complain. That's your choice of course, but don't act like it's due to some confusion on your part. Are you thinking that if you start enough threads on this, that they will change their decision? Be careful what you wish for, because your tactics just might backfire on you.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 12:59 PM
On Ron Paul's, I suppose. Ron is the one who chose John Tate to lead the C4L and it is John who made the decision.Yes but there has to be some rules for membership.






Read what John said. He told you why Nick was booted. Debbie reiterated.They did not say which rule he broke or how it was decided to expel him. They did not say what it takes for someone to get expelled, nor did they cite what the process of this is.





Nick was kicked out of the C4L; not any independent thing you have going. These are two different things altogether.So the FL-CFL is independent of the national CFL? If that's the case then how can the national CFL expell someone from a seperate and independent organization? :confused:

If the FL-CFL is not independent of the national CFL then what rules and by-laws is the organization based off of which would allow people to be expelled? :confused:



You're not confused, Matt. You just want to complain. Incorrect. I'm very confused which is why I keep asking for by-laws and binding documents so that I can get straight. I don't want to be expelled from the CFL and I would like to know what qualifies as an offence that warrants expulsion.


Can they expel me because they don't like me?
Can they expel me because they don't like what I've said in the past?
Can they expel me because they disagree with me?
Can they expel me because I have long hair and a beard?

And can they expel me from the TN-CFL or just the national CFL?




Are you thinking that if you complain enough, that they will change their decision? I don't think giving Nick and the other gentlemen the boot was justified nor an intelligent course of action that will benefit the greater movement. I'm sure you've figured out my opinion by now. But at this point I don't know how the leadership is even ALLOWED to expel anyone. What documents give them that authorization? What actions constitute an expulsion? :confused:

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 01:01 PM
Matt, I suggest you go over to the C4L site and ask them there, directly.


They did not say which rule he broke or how it was decided to expel him.
Yes they did. Go back and read what John and Debbie said, again.



Incorrect. I'm very confused which is why I keep asking for by-laws and binding documents so that I can get straight. I don't want to be expelled from the CFL and I would like to know what qualifies as an offence that warrants expulsion.

Can they expel me because they don't like me?
Can they expel me because they don't like what I've said in the past?
Can they expel me because they disagree with me?
Can they expel me because I have long hair and a beard?

Matt, each of us is responsible for our own behavior and our actions. It's just a fact of life. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about some of the things you have said on this very forum of a sexual nature and also comments regarding Ron's granddaughter. Do you talk like that other places? Even though you deleted a good portion of them, internet archives abound.

Can they boot you? Well, C4L is a private organization, so I would imagine that YES, they could boot you out of the C4L anytime they chose. Your state organization does not need to partner with C4L, Matt. It is a CHOICE you will need to make.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 01:50 PM
Matt, I suggest you go over to the C4L site and ask them there, directly.I have posed this question to Debbie Hopper in a post she was replying to and she has ignored it.


Yes they did. Go back and read what John and Debbie said, again.Give me the link.



If I were you, I'd be more concerned about some of the things you have said on this very forum of a sexual nature and also comments regarding Ron's granddaughter.You just don't like my sense of humor which is fine, but quit lying about me talking about Mrs. Valori. I have not said anything about her.




Can they boot you? Well, C4L is a private organization, so I would imagine that YES, they could boot you out of the C4L anytime they choseUnder what by-laws, and what are the rules regarding this?

Dustancostine
01-30-2009, 01:54 PM
So the FL-CFL is independent of the national CFL? If that's the case then how can the national CFL expell someone from a seperate and independent organization? :confused:

If the FL-CFL is not independent of the national CFL then what rules and by-laws is the organization based off of which would allow people to be expelled? :confused:


Yes Matt this is where your confusion is. It seems that there is no such things as "state" cfl's. There is the Campaign for Liberty which is a nationwide nonprofit that has interim state coordinators to coordinate the CFL in each state for the CFL. The social networking site is further broken down.

If you want a state organization or if Florida wants a state organization, then you need to form it how you please then apply for affiliation with the CFL, as per the memo. It could be quiet conceivable that the head of your Tennessee organization might not be you ISC, in that case your head and the CFL state coordinator will have to work together to get things done.

--Dustan

BTW This is getting really tiring. I am not sure what you want, or that what you want is possible. I don't understand your obsession with the CFL. It is just a granfalloon. Find your karass and get to work.

If you wish to study a granfalloon, just remove the skin of a toy balloon.—Bokonon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon

karass - a group of people who, often unknowingly, are working together to do God's will. The people can be thought of as like the fingers that support a Cat's Cradle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karass

-- Kurt Vonnegut

newbitech
01-30-2009, 04:11 PM
snipity-

If you want a state organization or if Florida wants a state organization, then you need to form it how you please then apply for affiliation with the CFL, as per the memo.

-snip

and herein lies the problem.

1.) the memo came out 1/9/2009 and was not circulated to all dues paying members of the national C4L, and many local orgs have been forming without the benefit of this memo.
2.) the actions by the FL non-existent C4L "interim state coordinator" is not supported by the memo.
3.) the dues paying members who were excommunicated are in the process of forming a state org but have been undermined by national C4L.

C4L National is competing with the grassroots for political influence rather than allowing the grassroots to conduct business as it sees fit. If national is going to run the show like this, there needs to be rules in place that govern its conduct in the political arena. Rules each dues paying member and/or ally of the org must adhere to.

I am done with this issue. The damage is done, there will be no remedy for the people hurt, and it doesn't look like there is any support or activity in my area. Typical politics as usual. Wake me up again when the liberty movement is ready to move.

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 04:15 PM
You just don't like my sense of humor which is fine, but quit lying about me talking about Mrs. Valori. I have not said anything about her.

I am saving this out. lest you try to delete it later.

Matt, you have just made a bold-faced lie.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 06:11 PM
Matt, you have just made a bold-faced lie.Then please tell me what I said about Mrs. Valori. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that you have alleged. I don't even know the girl, I've never met her. But having met other members of the Paul family she is probably a great person.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 06:13 PM
there needs to be rules in place that govern its conduct in the political arena. Rules each dues paying member and/or ally of the org must adhere to. EXACTLY!

There needs to be a clear understanding by way of binding documents which outlay the rules for both the national CFL, the States, and the members.

Why hasn't this happened? :confused:

Sandra
01-30-2009, 06:47 PM
Then please tell me what I said about Mrs. Valori. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that you have alleged. I don't even know the girl, I've never met her. But having met other members of the Paul family she is probably a great person.

It's apparent Matt lives in his own reality. Even though thousands of members read his lewd posts, he denies ever saying anything. Priceless.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 06:58 PM
If you want a state organization or if Florida wants a state organization, then you need to form it how you please then apply for affiliation with the CFL, as per the memo.That makes no sense. Why would one set up an organization then try to get national recognition then to only find out that the way you set it up was incorrect or the people at HQ don't like it?!?! Why not just set it up how like the national organization wants it to begin with?





I am not sure what you wantClear rules and binding documents as to guide direction in my state. Oh, and also to have our two fellow patriots in Florida reinstated.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 06:58 PM
It's apparent Matt lives in his own reality. Even though thousands of members read his lewd posts, he denies ever saying anything. Priceless.Please refer what you are talking about by quoting what I said.... :confused:

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 07:58 PM
Then please tell me what I said about Mrs. Valori. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that you have alleged. I don't even know the girl, I've never met her. But having met other members of the Paul family she is probably a great person.
Matt, a few months ago you went back and deleted many of your more distasteful posts. Did you actually believe that you also deleted them from our memory?

This is where it was.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=151653

This pretty much sums it up.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/liberty_08/nattcollins.jpg

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 08:22 PM
But the joke wasn't about Ron's granddaughter was it?

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 08:27 PM
But the joke wasn't about Ron's granddaughter was it?

Scroll up. Do you see the word "granddaughter" in the screenshot included?

Do you have a problem understanding how to read, in addition to your difficulty in distinguishing between humor and lewd comments?

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 08:41 PM
Do you have a problem understanding how to read, in addition to your difficulty in distinguishing between humor and lewd comments?You seem to be the one with the problem distinguishing between jokes and non-jokes.

So please quote what I said that you think was so offensive in that post....

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 08:47 PM
You seem to be the one with the problem distinguishing between jokes and non-jokes.

So please quote what I said that you think was so offensive in that post....

Once again, you seem to be having difficulty reading. As mentioned above, you deleted them.

I'll let the reader draw their own conclusions from the screenshot.


You seem to be the one with the problem distinguishing between jokes and non-jokes.
Actually, that would be you, Matt. You make lewd comments, then when others hold you accountable, you try to claim that you were only joking and that others don't appreciate your "humor".


So please quote what I said that you think was so offensive in that post....
As I recall, you mentioned something about sausages, while you were salivating over Ron's granddaughter.

But since you found it necessary to go back and delete so many of your posts, perhaps you would like to tell us the exact words that you used in that post, Matt. Words that you found it necessary to go back and delete.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 08:53 PM
Once again, you seem to be having difficulty reading. As mentioned above, you deleted them. So you don't know what was actually said then now do you? :confused:


I'll let the reader draw their own conclusions from the screenshot.That's called hearsay. But I didn't make comments about Valori as you have suggested.

LibertyEagle
01-30-2009, 08:56 PM
That's called hearsay. But I didn't make comments about Valori as you have suggested.

So you don't know how to read. You don't know the definitions of words. You don't take responsibility for your actions.

How old are you?

There's really no point in continuing this discussion, if you're not going to be straight forward about it.

Matt Collins
01-30-2009, 09:04 PM
So you don't know how to read.What did I say? Please quote me...

Dustancostine
01-30-2009, 10:27 PM
That makes no sense. Why would one set up an organization then try to get national recognition then to only find out that the way you set it up was incorrect or the people at HQ don't like it?!?! Why not just set it up how like the national organization wants it to begin with?




Clear rules and binding documents as to guide direction in my state. Oh, and also to have our two fellow patriots in Florida reinstated.

Well sit around and wait then, I guess.