The Most Libertarian Country?

[StudentForPaul08]

I have to do a long report on a country, and I would much rather do it on a Libertarian-leaning country, specifically economically.

What country is the most Libertarian?

Any thoughts? :confused:

[heavenlyboy34]

I dunno...Switzerland?

[wizardwatson]

I have to do a long report on a country, and I would much rather do it on a Libertarian-leaning country, specifically economically.

What country is the most Libertarian?

Any thoughts? :confused:

Antarctica.

[nullvalu]

Antarctica.

haha Bingo.

actually that's more of a continent than a country, but still.

[heavenlyboy34]

Antarctica.

lol

[StudentForPaul08]

Perhaps I can use a very liberal/socialist country (since my school is extremely liberal) and talk bad about it....

idk

[heavenlyboy34]

You could talk about pre-constitution America, which was pretty libertarian, and in many ways a different country. ;)

[Crash Martinez]

Does it have to be contemporary?

If not: Virginia, ca.1780 :D

[StudentForPaul08]

Does it have to be contemporary?

If not: Virginia, ca.1780 :D

Yes it has to be a Country in the present tense and not America. I think.

If I can do it about America, I WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY

But I am pretty sure it has to be about another country...

[SovereignMN]

I've read that New Zealand has a pretty free market and does a good job respecting property rights but haven't looked into it enough.

This website says Estonia.

http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/results.html

[Freedom 4 all]

I have to do a long report on a country, and I would much rather do it on a Libertarian-leaning country, specifically economically.

What country is the most Libertarian?

Any thoughts? :confused:

Probably America. Despite all the copious bullshit that goes on I can't think of a more libertarian country. That can be either reassuring or depressing as fuck

[emazur]

I dunno about most libertarian country, but how about most libertarian leader? That may well be Vaclav Klaus, of the Czech Republic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/world/europe/25klaus.html?_r=4&hp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZF1FY4g2mY
In your report you could discuss how Czechoslovokia was crushed by the iron fist of government central planning, and discuss Klaus's free market approach to fixing it. Klaus became president of the EU this month - you should be able to find many articles on him

[StudentForPaul08]

I dunno about most libertarian country, but how about most libertarian leader? That may well be Vaclav Klaus, of the Czech Republic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/world/europe/25klaus.html?_r=4&hp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZF1FY4g2mY
In your report you could discuss how Czechoslovokia was crushed by the iron fist of government central planning, and discuss Klaus's free market approach to fixing it. Klaus became president of the EU this month - you should be able to find many articles on him

Great!

part of the report is to predict the future economic/social well-being of the country...This might be a winner if after I am done researching this guy I like him.

[StudentForPaul08]

The economic crisis should be regarded as an unavoidable consequence and hence a “just” price we have to pay for immodest and over-confident politicians playing with the market. Their attempts to blame the market, instead of blaming themselves, are unacceptable and should be resolutely rejected. The Czech government will – hopefully – not push the world and Europe into more regulation, nationalisation, de-liberalisation and protectionism. Our historical experience gives us a very strong warning in this respect. - Václav Klaus, Financial Times, 7. January 2009

wow.....


Aggregate demand needs strengthening. One traditional way to do this is to increase government expenditures, probably in public infrastructure projects, on condition these are available. - Václav Klaus, Financial Times, 7. January 2009

Eeeek.....

[JeNNiF00F00]

Czech Republic?? I was just in CZ this summer and I am not sure about them being the most libertarian country. I got in trouble so many times for just taking photos of things and people. Cops were everywhere as well as cameras. I felt like I was constantly being watched. Peeps would tell on eachother and that would get the cops involved, for trivial things like sitting in the grass in the middle of the town square. Yet it was very common to smell weed just about everywhere. Not to mention they are huge socialists and you pay about 20% sales tax along with whatever the govt takes out of your paycheck for utilities and healthcare etc.

[FrankRep]

I dunno...Switzerland?

My guess as well.

[ghemminger]

I would guess
Cayman Islands
Hong Kong
Singapore (financial only)

[JoshLowry]

Maybe we should all move to Antarctica?

[nate895]

Maybe we should all move to Antarctica?

Even though I know this is a joke, you will have to kill me to take me to Antarctica.

[muzzled dogg]

food for thought

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_freedom

[heavenlyboy34]

Even though I know this is a joke, you will have to kill me to take me to Antarctica.

*prepares the killing utensils* ;)

[emazur]

wow.....



Eeeek.....

Don't worry, even Ron Paul said that he wouldn't be able to have his perfect society and would spend on infrastructure (paid for by pulling out of foreign interventions):
http://www.libertygrotto.com/blog/?p=278
(look around 5:50 of the video).

And speaking of Ron Paul and Klaus:
"(1/5) Ron Paul hosted by President Klaus in Prague"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLoDMv4XsWw

[Zolah]

Monaco maybe..

[SamuraisWisdom]

I was going to say Australia, but that wikipedia list beat me to it :p

[socialize_me]

I would say Liechtenstein. It does have royalty, but the country is only about a dozen or so miles long. It's referred to as a "Tax Haven" because virtually no taxes exist there (no income tax actually).

Switzerland takes your tax dollars and actually the government donates some of it to churches. Switzerland is pretty libertarian and decentralized and independent, but that's probably one of the few dark spots on the Swiss.

I dunno...I'd have my tax dollars go to churches if it meant I was able to have my house be a virtual military arsenal :) no one would or could invade Switzerland...their military is their militia, or the entire population in other words. They openly walk in public with automatic machine guns and locals have no problem with it.

[nate895]

I would say Liechtenstein. It does have royalty, but the country is only about a dozen or so miles long. It's referred to as a "Tax Haven" because virtually no taxes exist there (no income tax actually).

Switzerland takes your tax dollars and actually the government donates some of it to churches. Switzerland is pretty libertarian and decentralized and independent, but that's probably one of the few dark spots on the Swiss.

I dunno...I'd have my tax dollars go to churches if it meant I was able to have my house be a virtual military arsenal :) no one would or could invade Switzerland...their military is their militia, or the entire population in other words. They openly walk in public with automatic machine guns and locals have no problem with it.

All forms of government, even monarchy, are legitimate if they support liberty for the entire population, it is just that a Republic seems to be the most able to maintain liberty.

[Freedom 4 all]

All forms of government, even monarchy, are legitimate if they support liberty for the entire population, it is just that a Republic seems to be the most able to maintain liberty.

That's true I guess eh. I'd rather live in a country where Ron Paul was king than one where Obama is president. That being said, there are very few people who could handle that kind of power without being as crooked as a fence.

[qh4dotcom]

Glenn Beck says the most free country is Hong Kong

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/20533/

[FunkBuddha]

Estonia

[akihabro]

I would say Liechtenstein. It does have royalty, but the country is only about a dozen or so miles long. It's referred to as a "Tax Haven" because virtually no taxes exist there (no income tax actually).

Switzerland takes your tax dollars and actually the government donates some of it to churches. Switzerland is pretty libertarian and decentralized and independent, but that's probably one of the few dark spots on the Swiss.

I dunno...I'd have my tax dollars go to churches if it meant I was able to have my house be a virtual military arsenal :) no one would or could invade Switzerland...their military is their militia, or the entire population in other words. They openly walk in public with automatic machine guns and locals have no problem with it.

I never knew Liechtenstein existed. Hmm is there any islands in the Pacific that aren't swallowed up by some treaty?

[StudentForPaul08]

Well I had to choose earlier and I chose Switzerland, for better or worse.

:o:rolleyes:

[The_Orlonater]

I would say Liechtenstein. It does have royalty, but the country is only about a dozen or so miles long. It's referred to as a "Tax Haven" because virtually no taxes exist there (no income tax actually).

Switzerland takes your tax dollars and actually the government donates some of it to churches. Switzerland is pretty libertarian and decentralized and independent, but that's probably one of the few dark spots on the Swiss.

I dunno...I'd have my tax dollars go to churches if it meant I was able to have my house be a virtual military arsenal :) no one would or could invade Switzerland...their military is their militia, or the entire population in other words. They openly walk in public with automatic machine guns and locals have no problem with it.

I told this to some people, they thought I was bluffing. Oh well.

[nate895]

That's true I guess eh. I'd rather live in a country where Ron Paul was king than one where Obama is president. That being said, there are very few people who could handle that kind of power without being as crooked as a fence.

That is why Republics tend to preserve liberty better. It is the only form of government where it is possible for the government to be limited enough to not grow beyond protecting the borders and the natural rights of its citizens.

[emazur]

Well I had to choose earlier and I chose Switzerland, for better or worse.

:o:rolleyes:

In that case, this book from a (now deceased) Swiss banker who advocated the gold standard may be useful for your research:
http://www.fame.org/goldwars.htm
interview:
http://www.financialsense.com/transcriptions/2003/Lips.html

excerpt:

JIM: Let’s talk about your country. For a long period, people have always viewed Switzerland as a safe haven in times of trouble. The Swiss currency--the Swiss Franc--was the strongest currency in the world. In particular, as we saw in the 1970s, we moved to floating exchange rates. Have you been surprised by the actions of your government’s sale of gold?

MR. LIPS: Yes, I am sad about the change in psychology and philosophy. I have lived through this and I can never understand. The disaster started when we joined the IMF in 1992. At the time I wrote articles against it and it almost didn’t happen. It was sold to the public, the Swiss public, as some kind of development aid. It was a lie and most of the people, even people in high finance, do not know what the IMF represents. And yet at that time two very ambitious ministers wanted to join--one of them was an internationalist and the other one a socialist--and they wanted to be in it.

This was the beginning of the end of the Swiss Franc, because, under IMF rules, a currency may not be linked to gold. A currency may be linked to anything in the world like pork bellies or soybeans, but not to gold. So that was the end of the Swiss Franc, but also of the Swiss banking system as we knew it, and of Switzerland as well. We have given away our uniqueness for nothing.

Then, in 1996, the Swiss central bank started to think about its new statutes. They said gold is no longer money. It is a commodity and so on. I had on the board of my bank a man who later became a member of government, Mr. Schmid. He was the head of the gold commission. He asked me what I thought about it. I wrote him a paper and told him that, from now on, our central bank is speculating. They should not do it.

[socialize_me]

I told this to some people, they thought I was bluffing. Oh well.

Okay, tell them to look at this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg

and then here's some info on guns in Switzerland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

[tsopranos]

Kazakhstan... I heard men prostitute their sisters there :D

[JohnJay]

Well I had to choose earlier and I chose Switzerland, for better or worse.

:o:rolleyes:

Switzerland might be the best choice,
but Portugal was also neutral in World War II - and while it used to be a dictatorship, it is a "no-hassle" kind of country now.
Sweden is often referred to as a model nation, but high taxes, maybe more socialist.
Netherlands would seem to be libertarian on drug policy, but it is a monarchy of sorts.
Brazil at least superficially seems to be pretty free-wheeling . . .

Maybe a new thread . . . but which would be the most libertarian state . . . California ?

[heavenlyboy34]

Switzerland might be the best choice,
but Portugal was also neutral in World War II - and while it used to be a dictatorship, it is a "no-hassle" kind of country now.
Sweden is often referred to as a model nation, but high taxes, maybe more socialist.
Netherlands would seem to be libertarian on drug policy, but it is a monarchy of sorts.
Brazil at least superficially seems to be pretty free-wheeling . . .

Maybe a new thread . . . but which would be the most libertarian state . . . California ?

California? :rolleyes: My guess would be New Hampshire (if I must select a STATE) ;):D

[The_Orlonater]

Okay, tell them to look at this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg

and then here's some info on guns in Switzerland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Thank you. ;)

[asimplegirl]

Okay, tell them to look at this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg

and then here's some info on guns in Switzerland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Okay, I read this, and where I live, the gun laws are way more lenient than that.

California and New York have the same "you must show why you need a permit" thing to get one, and the most liberal states also have the "you must carry ammo separate from weapon" thing for transporting..and you even have to specify WHERE you can bring it to?! Pffftt.

According to this:


To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms.

You have to have a permit to BUY a gun , and you only get three..

and this:


hollow point rounds are only permitted for hunters

My husband carries hollow points everyday.

Then these new laws were added, making them even stricter:


Gun trade among individuals will require a valid weapon acquisition permit: This is from a Swiss point of view radical restriction is assumed to cut private gun trade dramatically.


Airsoft guns and imitations of real guns will also be governed by the new law.


Only one weapon may be purchased per weapon acquisition permit


Weapons acquired from an individual in the last ten years (which did not require a weapon acquisition permit) have to be registered.

So, even if you did get your weapon without a permit before, you have to register it now.

That doesn't sound too libertarian to me.

Now, how does that add up to what the Brady Campaign says of a state right here in the USA?(My state)


Assault Weapons
Are there limitations on assault weapons? No

Ballistic Fingerprinting
Must handguns be ballistic fingerprinted prior to sale? No

Child Access Prevention - CAP
Are gun owners held accountable for leaving guns accessible to kids? No

Child-Safety Locks
Must locking devices be sold with guns? No

Childproof Handguns
Are only authorized users able to operate handguns? No

Gun Dealer Regulations
Must gun dealers adhere to state licensing and/or oversight systems? No

Gun Manufacturer Accountability
Do cities have authority to hold gun makers legally liable? No

Gun Show Loophole
Are background checks required at gun shows? No (The federal one required everywhere is)

Guns at Work
Are businesses forced to allow guns in the workplace? No (I know of none that prohibit, though one place did and was sued, and they lost the case)

Guns on College Campuses
Are colleges/universities forced to allow guns on campus? No (I know many that allow it, though)

Juvenile Sale
Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines
Are there limitations on large capacity ammunition magazines? No

License or Permit to Purchase
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? No

Limit Bulk Purchases
Is there a one-handgun-per-month limit on sales? No

Limits on Concealed Handgun Permits
May police limit carrying concealed handguns? No

Microstamping
Must new semi-automatic handguns be sold with microstamping technology? No

Preemption - Local Gun Laws
May municipalities enact law stronger than the state's? No

Record Keeping
May police maintain gun sale records? No

Registration
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? No

Report Lost/Stolen Guns
Are firearm owners required to report all lost or stolen guns to law enforcement? No

Safety Standards
Are there consumer safety standards on guns? No

Saturday Night Specials
Are there limitations on 'junk' handguns? No

Shoot First
Is deadly force allowed to be a first resort in public? Yes

Universal Background Checks
Are background checks required on all gun sales? No (The federal background check required of all states is)

Waiting Period
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? No




You just have to choose a state here that isn't too liberal. I like it right where I am.

[Chosen]

Czech Republic?? I was just in CZ this summer and I am not sure about them being the most libertarian country. I got in trouble so many times for just taking photos of things and people. Cops were everywhere as well as cameras. I felt like I was constantly being watched. Peeps would tell on eachother and that would get the cops involved, for trivial things like sitting in the grass in the middle of the town square. Yet it was very common to smell weed just about everywhere. Not to mention they are huge socialists and you pay about 20% sales tax along with whatever the govt takes out of your paycheck for utilities and healthcare etc.
What? You got in trouble for taking pictures of things? Where? What town were you in?

I call bs on this.

[Anti Federalist]

What? You got in trouble for taking pictures of things? Where? What town were you in?

I call bs on this.

Could be BS, I'll let her respond.

But, hell, the situation she described could just as easily been in NY or LA.

[The_Orlonater]

Okay, I read this, and where I live, the gun laws are way more lenient than that.

California and New York have the same "you must show why you need a permit" thing to get one, and the most liberal states also have the "you must carry ammo separate from weapon" thing for transporting..and you even have to specify WHERE you can bring it to?! Pffftt.

According to this:


You have to have a permit to BUY a gun , and you only get three..

and this:


My husband carries hollow points everyday.

Then these new laws were added, making them even stricter:







So, even if you did get your weapon without a permit before, you have to register it now.

That doesn't sound too libertarian to me.

Now, how does that add up to what the Brady Campaign says of a state right here in the USA?(My state)



You just have to choose a state here that isn't too liberal. I like it right where I am.

Your use of the word "liberal"is incorrect, but I agree with your premise. At least in Switzerland you can do this, not where I live.

[asimplegirl]

Your use of the word "liberal"is incorrect, but I agree with your premise. At least in Switzerland you can do this, not where I live.

How is my use of the word liberal wrong? I mean liberal as in the regular usage of the word, politically... whatever. And, no, the point was in Switzerland you CAN'T do that. In Louisiana you can. Just go back and read my post again, slowly.

Your problem can be easily solved by moving to state like mine, and staying away from the "liberal" areas like NOLA. Then, how other people live seems so foreign.

[JeNNiF00F00]

What? You got in trouble for taking pictures of things? Where? What town were you in?

I call bs on this.

Why do you assume I am lying?? Going to CZ was a total eye opener of whats to come here in the US in terms of socialism etc.

I got in trouble/yelled at in Prague a few times for taking photos of buildings, and there was a time I got seriously cursed out in Czech by some dood dressed up in renaissance garb with a huge Owl on his shoulder walking down the street, who threatened to call the cops if I did not pay him 5 crowns for taking his photo in Karlstejn. LOL I then found out that he was charging $$ for people to take pics WITH him...however I did not know this as no one was really standing around him or anything, and was a good distance away and on the street and there were shops and stuff.

Beautiful country but the peeps were total assholes and miserable, and parts of it still looked very communist as if nothing had changed since they got rid of communism. Karlstejn was like going back to WW2 era. Lets see what else sucked, you had pickpockets, beggars, crabby communist old people, cops everywhere you went, big brother everywhere you went, not much seating at all unless you paid for extremely expensive cafe food or beer for tourists, everywhere you walked it smelled like piss because peeps just piss on the buildings or in between parked cars, or sidewalks, in the parks EVERYWHERE because you have to pay a considerable amount to use the restrooms unless you can find an american fast food place, and even then the bathrooms are just plain gross.

The good....BEER was awesome, you could smoke weed in the streets and at some pubs, the food was good, good transportation to get you home if you were drunk or high, beautiful architecture.

The only libertarian thing I could see was that you could smoke weed, and they didn't care about drinking...it was a part of life...saw guys drinking beer on the job quite frequently. Other than that, I saw peeps getting chased off by cops for sitting in the grass in the middle of the town square in Prague because there was no available seating. I also saw a cop car running up on the sidewalk through a tour line to chase someone down. It was always like someone was getting arrested or approached by cops for really really stupid shit...like...this one tour guide that was not standing close enough to the "tour" sign(he was like 5 feet away instead of 2 feet away).

The peeps there are major socialist liberals not libertarian.

[cindy25]

Switzerland and Singapore both have conscription; Sin gapore even regulates what breed of dog is allowed.

if its a government then Hong Kong- low taxes, and even the banknotes are privately issued (By HSBC and Standard Chartered).

but for a country the Bahamas. no income tax, bank secrecy to some extent.

[idiom]

Dunno how Australia topped New Zealand in that list...

I moved my business back to New Zealand because beuracracy in Oz is just out of control.

Also where are the votes for Somalia and the Congo?

[asimplegirl]

Switzerland and Singapore both have conscription; Sin gapore even regulates what breed of dog is allowed.

if its a government then Hong Kong- low taxes, and even the banknotes are privately issued (By HSBC and Standard Chartered).

but for a country the Bahamas. no income tax, bank secrecy to some extent.

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=14952

Yet another country where people are not allowed to be armed. ppfft.

[cindy25]

the Philippines-strong banksecrecy law.
low tax enforcement
gun ownership is allowed
no conscription


Costa Rica-no army
has elected Libertarians to congress

Antigua=no conscription
no personal income tax
bank secrecy

[Freedom Forever]

Nobody mentioned South Korea. According to Wikipedia it has the lowest tax rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

[cindy25]

South Korea has 27 months mandatory military training, no civilian alternatives, and also are very paranoid about photos.

Kimpo is full of signs not to take photos.

Koreans are also super patriotic by nature, almost as much as the Israelis

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[RevolutionSD]

I was going to say Australia, but that wikipedia list beat me to it :p

Funny, Australia is purely socialist now yet still ranks ahead of the U.S. in terms of economic freedom.

It's really embarrassing that anyone would be ahead of the so-called land of the free.

[Young Paleocon]

Norway may become less socialized if the Progress Party wins the election and lives up to their platform. They are basically European libertarians, remember European.

[Arklatex]

Well I have an answer that may blow your mind: Honduras

Hear me out, they probably have more socialist laws the the USA but two things:

1) laws don't get enforced, there is no real central organization. Basically everything is decentralized, where the mayors are in control of their cities. As far as a centralized federal organization it's about non existent. It's kinda like anarchy, you can do what you want down there.

2) low taxes

It works out better than you'd think. There is a huge melting pot of ethnic groups and cultures yet they have a very low rate of "hate" crimes or racial problems. Everyone seems to get along. This environment has it's pros and cons. The cons would be healthcare and education. It is a very poor country so their is a lot of crime. Poor people = high crime rates.

[cindy25]

non-enforcement occurs in all Latin/Hispanic countries to a degree. Mexico and Brasil have conscription but no one is really conscripted. same for Thailand.

in these countries private education is very cheap, and most middle class children attend private (usually but not always) Catholic schools.

only in socialist Venez and fascist Columbia is conscription enforced.

[fj45lvr]

antarctica.


bingo.

[leonster]

Someone mentioned South Korea. I've lived here for more than 2 years (including currently) and can weigh in on it.

Very, very---extremely---low taxes... check. I pay 2% income tax (plus 2.5% more health care) on an income that's well above the median income. And the money is used well, too--not necessarily in a libertarian way, as there is national healthcare, huge government construction, etc., but it's very efficient and VERY little is wasted.

It does also have a forced pension plan--4.5% of your income, and a matching 4.5% from your employer--but as a foreigner here, I get the FULL 9% (plus a bit of interest) back as a lump sum at the end of each contract I finish here... so for me, it works out.

For everyday, on-the-street stuff, it's very lax... both in the fact there aren't NEARLY as many laws restricting freedom... and the fact that even the laws that do exist are largely ignored and not enforced.

Koreans ARE extremely patriotic and "Our Nation First", though, and some can be quite xenophobic for little or no reason (i.e. "unsafe/mad cow" imported U.S. beef, with "scientists" on TV flatly stating that thousands of Koreans will die from mad cow disease if they import it, etc.) Conscription does exist for Korean males.

People are quite paranoid about pictures--but that's not really a government thing, it's a personal privacy thing, individuals getting mad if you take their picture without permission. (They don't really have the concept of... in a public place = ok to photograph.... Perhaps partly b/c SO many girls/women wear SUCH tiny miniskirts that covert upskirt shots would be so easy?)

It's far from perfect, and the occasional xenophobia I run across bothers the crap out of me... yet all in all, in my everyday life I certainly feel freer to go about my own business without interference from laws/police/etc. here, even as a foreigner, than I do as a citizen in my own country.

[armslist]

I see a lot of dialogue...is there a consensus?

[Young Paleocon]

yea there is........government's have a shit load of power

[The_Orlonater]

How is my use of the word liberal wrong? I mean liberal as in the regular usage of the word, politically... whatever. And, no, the point was in Switzerland you CAN'T do that. In Louisiana you can. Just go back and read my post again, slowly.

Your problem can be easily solved by moving to state like mine, and staying away from the "liberal" areas like NOLA. Then, how other people live seems so foreign.

Exactly.

[gobbledygookie]

My guess as well.

Yep, they can make laws if what Mike Gravel is saying is true. That's as libertarian as it gets.

-gobbledy

[gb13]

What about Ireland? They rank 3rd on the list of economic freedom.

How are they faring amidst all this?

[mconder]

I would have to say Cane Beds, Mohave County, Arizona. I have some friends there. People build where, when and what they want on their property The county building codes are largely ignored. On the down side, it is rather remote. It's very scenic there. It's the only place I've seen where they mount animal parts on fence posts. I found that to be a rather interesting practice. Also, you have to be able to tolerate the largest population of polygamists just the next town over. I don't mind them.

[RevolutionSD]

Someone mentioned South Korea. I've lived here for more than 2 years (including currently) and can weigh in on it.

Very, very---extremely---low taxes... check. I pay 2% income tax (plus 2.5% more health care) on an income that's well above the median income. And the money is used well, too--not necessarily in a libertarian way, as there is national healthcare, huge government construction, etc., but it's very efficient and VERY little is wasted.

It does also have a forced pension plan--4.5% of your income, and a matching 4.5% from your employer--but as a foreigner here, I get the FULL 9% (plus a bit of interest) back as a lump sum at the end of each contract I finish here... so for me, it works out.

For everyday, on-the-street stuff, it's very lax... both in the fact there aren't NEARLY as many laws restricting freedom... and the fact that even the laws that do exist are largely ignored and not enforced.

Koreans ARE extremely patriotic and "Our Nation First", though, and some can be quite xenophobic for little or no reason (i.e. "unsafe/mad cow" imported U.S. beef, with "scientists" on TV flatly stating that thousands of Koreans will die from mad cow disease if they import it, etc.) Conscription does exist for Korean males.

People are quite paranoid about pictures--but that's not really a government thing, it's a personal privacy thing, individuals getting mad if you take their picture without permission. (They don't really have the concept of... in a public place = ok to photograph.... Perhaps partly b/c SO many girls/women wear SUCH tiny miniskirts that covert upskirt shots would be so easy?)

It's far from perfect, and the occasional xenophobia I run across bothers the crap out of me... yet all in all, in my everyday life I certainly feel freer to go about my own business without interference from laws/police/etc. here, even as a foreigner, than I do as a citizen in my own country.

Do most people really only pay 2% in income taxes there?
I'm an anarcho-capitalist and don't agree with having an income tax period but a tax rate that low is intriguing even to me.

[s burgess]

im from new zealand free trades the norm no big unions and our pretty lib socialy .personal responerbility is growing but we pay 2 much income tax to old kunts students and shit .used 2 be b4 1984 big unions limited free speech anti free trade gays were banned farmers got aid .goverment over spending yea things are way better with a bit of freedom. just need to steal ron paul and force him to rule us and finish the job and well b set .

[cyberrate]

I've read that New Zealand has a pretty free market and does a good job respecting property rights but haven't looked into it enough.

This website says Estonia.

http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/results.html

This is why statistics are joke. I live in Estonia and I am a Russian. I was born here when Estonia was a part of USSR. And let me tell you that unless you are blind and deaf being Russian in Estonia is like being black in South Africa. The authors of this website didn't know that there is a law in Estonia that grants citizenship only to those who's parents were living in Estonia before 1940, this is not a joke, it's a current citizenship law of a EU country that considered to be democratic. And guess what, 90% of people who doesn't fall under this criteria are "accidentally" ethnic Russians. Yeah democracy at it's best. And I'm not even talking about all the tags that you automatically get (vodka,commie ...) like it's my fault that Stalin deported Estonians to Siberia.

[krazy kaju]

Many small nations are very laissez faire. e.g. Singapore, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, and Switzerland.

[krazy kaju]

Do most people really only pay 2% in income taxes there?
I'm an anarcho-capitalist and don't agree with having an income tax period but a tax rate that low is intriguing even to me.

The UAE, the British Virgin Islands, and Monaco all have no income taxes.

[kahless]

Someone mentioned Antarctica but if it was not for the territory being claimed by US, Russia and various other countries I bet billionaires would have already figured out a way to settle it and use it as a tax haven. There is no getting away from the long arm of the US-IRS if you are an American citizen. No matter where you are in the world the IRS has jurisdiction over you. So the US government really owns all of us.

There is no getting away unless you want to renounce your US citizenship or never return here. If you just leave you have to remember some countries could have future agreements with the US government-IRS. For example after 9/11 they forced the hand of many countries to provide the names of US citizens that had bank accounts.

So if you really want to live freely in a Libertarian country your best bet is to unite and reform America or individual independent states into one.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Specially Economically?

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

We're close to last on the list when you add up all the deductions; Federal/State/County/Social Shit etc.

Some SnapShots:

Montenegro: 12%
British Virgin Islands 0%
Czech republic is a flat 19%
Monaco 0%
UAE 0%

[Truth-Bringer]

Well I had to choose earlier and I chose Switzerland, for better or worse.

:o:rolleyes:

Here's an article that may help:

Why Switzerland Is Still Free and America Is Not (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/holland9.1.1.html)

I would only like direct democracy votes if it were to be used as a veto power, but it's hard to argue that the Swiss aren't going to be in better shape than we are in 20 or 30 years.

[krazy kaju]

WOW... This thread has been dead for MONTHS but cyberrate resurrected it.

[Ricky201]

WOW... This thread has been dead for MONTHS but cyberrate resurrected it.

Well it's an interesting little topic! I always had an interest in Hong Kong, but I think socially they are a tad too statist for my tastes (cops going around saying "Show me your papers please!"). However, China does seem influenced by them, and I do believe they do have one of the freest markets in the world. Also one of the few developed countries (I guess we can't really call it a country, but still) that has not enacted a minimum wage law.

[Liberty Star]

Either Iraq or Palestine.

[Liberty_Tree]

No Country really.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I would be really curious if in the events of history that instead of the US we had 50 or more seperate small, de-centralized, nation-states. How would that look today? Perhaps in the future we may yet get a glance. This is why the Free State Project is so important, one day, maybe not too distant in the future we will see mass secession, and when that happens imagine of we coalesced together......

As for the current most libertarian society......I've heard decent things about Costa Rica, Switzerland, and Hong Kong/Singapore.

As for Kaju's earlier assessment that small states generally favor Laissez-Faire, well, quite frankly, if they didn't it would mean death. Hans-Hoppe pointed this out quite succinctly in his lecture about Decentralization. This is why the unification process of places like Italy, Germany, and America was a negative, not a positive.

[cpike]

I dont get Singapore being free. E Economically perhaps but you can get whipped for chewing gum.

[Elwar]

I dont get Singapore being free. E Economically perhaps but you can get whipped for chewing gum.

I agree, Singapore is ok economically but if you're a foreigner, the courts tend to side with locals. So if you go the only route of having property, leasing for 100 years, and the person you're leasing from wants you out...they take you to court and most likely you'll lose.

I've been looking into this ever since I saw that America had the choice of freedom with Ron Paul and they decided against it. So I started checking out other countries.

I started by checking the list below.

Hong Kong - I looked into it and they are most likely the most free country in the world. I would say that if Ayn Rand were alive today her book Atlas Shrugged would refer to Hong Kong instead of New York as the place to be. If you want success and you're willing to work hard for it, Hong Kong is the place to be. The downfall for me is that it's a city like New York where you pretty much have to live in an apartment. Property cost is very high. One of the very rare houses costs in the millions. This place might have been perfect for me right out of college but now, most likely not.

New Zealand - Great economically, they have started to get a bit censorship happy, even on the Internet. Seems like a great country. Being from Florida, the cooler climate is a factor for me.

I haven't looked too much further into other countries.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/index.gif

I checked into Singapore because I was starting to check out countries with no extradition treaties with the US (in case they start rounding up freedom activists and the "rich"). I liked Singapore mainly for the climate and finding something isolated, but the property rights are fairly shakey. I found that most of the countries without extradition treaties don't have them because they pretty much don't like us. So, most of those countries would be hostile to me.

[BenIsForRon]

Somalia has pretty Lasseiz Faire system right now.

[Elwar]

Somalia has pretty Lasseiz Faire system right now.

With no property rights and regional dictators.

[BenIsForRon]

No, there are property rights. If you cross into a warlord's territory, he'll kill you. He doesn't have the nanny state to help him protect his property.