Why is the Income Tax unconstitutional?

[socialize_me]

I noticed Ron Paul said the way the income tax is collected is unconstitutional, and there are many protestors out there who believe the income tax is unconstitutional, period. I've also heard that the 16th amendment was illegally ratified to where only a handful of states actually legitimately passed it.

So, assuming the 16th amendment is truly the 16th amendment and says Congress has the power to levy an income tax, how is that unconstitutional? It might have been prior to the 16th amendment, but the language seems pretty clear to me and anytime I ask for an answer on this topic, all I get is a bunch of fluff with no actual facts to disprove the existence of the 16th amendment.

Ron Paul wasn't making the argument like in the movie "Freedom to Fascism" where only a few states passed it, but he said the way it was collected was illegal. Where does he base that argument from?

[Anti Federalist]

I noticed Ron Paul said the way the income tax is collected is unconstitutional

"Special" IRS tax courts that "decide" if you will be allowed to exercise your right to a fair, speedy, jury trial.

The passage of "ex post facto" tax laws that can leave you both civilly and criminally liable.

[Cinderella]

i thought paying taxes was patriotic?

[Chester Copperpot]

i thought paying taxes was patriotic?

I hope you're joking...

[Chester Copperpot]

I noticed Ron Paul said the way the income tax is collected is unconstitutional, and there are many protestors out there who believe the income tax is unconstitutional, period. I've also heard that the 16th amendment was illegally ratified to where only a handful of states actually legitimately passed it.

So, assuming the 16th amendment is truly the 16th amendment and says Congress has the power to levy an income tax, how is that unconstitutional? It might have been prior to the 16th amendment, but the language seems pretty clear to me and anytime I ask for an answer on this topic, all I get is a bunch of fluff with no actual facts to disprove the existence of the 16th amendment.

Ron Paul wasn't making the argument like in the movie "Freedom to Fascism" where only a few states passed it, but he said the way it was collected was illegal. Where does he base that argument from?

Well assuming the law is on the up and up.. (we'll ignore the issue) The reason RP says that is because it is collected unconstitutionally.. people are considered automatically guilty under the tax law and have to prove their innocence. Our system isnt supposed to work like that.

[roho76]

The "Income Tax" is not unconstitutional. It's the manner in which it's collected that is Unconstitutional and just down right mafioso in style.

Your not obligated to file a tax return because your not within the legal bounds of the federal government. But if you don't they will arrest you. Actually the Federal Government has no Constitutionally legal bounds in you personal life. They are only to keep us safe from the states and foreign enemies. The war on drugs is illegal in the fact that the Federal Government can not legally break into your home and arrest you for drugs but they do anyway because they have guns and you will not resist because you are a serf.

You do not make "Income" unless you receive a paycheck from the government (police, congressmen, POTUS, DOT road worker) or you use government interests to make money in the private sector (Halliburton, KBR, Raytheon, GE) you make "Wages" that are not subject to "Income Tax". But if you don't file and pay they will come and get you.

The IRS actually has no authority outside of government property. If you work in DC you have to pay "Income Tax". If you work in Puerto Rico you have to pay "Income Tax". Washington DC is owned by the Federal Government and so are all the other Districts. They are free to levy tax on anyone for any reason inside those jurisdictions. That's why DC is separate from Maryland and has separate borders. That's why DC has been able to get away with a gun ban because our Constitution has no legal standing in DC or Guam or Puerto Rico.

But all this is null in void in the face of the Mafia government thugs called the IRS. They have guns and you are scared to shoot them with yours to take your rights back.

There have been many threads on this forum about this subject with a lot more detail check it out.

[Cinderella]

I hope you're joking...


well thats what biden says

[Truth Warrior]

well thats what biden says And politicians NEVER lie, do they? :rolleyes: < LMAO! >

[dude58677]

The Preamble to the Bill of Rights says that "In order to prevent misconstruction and abuse of power, further restrictive clauses shall be added". So if Congress were to tax for unconstitutional programs, wasteful programs, unconstitutional debts, tax for no reason, and/or tax for the purpose of political gestures such as "everyone must pay their fair share" would be prohibited under the ninth and tenth amendments as abuse of power because the people have a right under the ninth and tenth amendment not to be taxed for the above reasons.

[Cinderella]

And politicians NEVER lie, do they? :rolleyes: < LMAO! >

i believe in our leaders whole heartedly!!!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[roho76]

There are plenty of facts out there.

Take a look at Bill Benson's research on the ratification of the 16th amendment. The amendment was ratified based on the legal premise that since the states knew they could not change the language of the amendment they must have passed it. It is complete bullshit.

Second the supreme court has already ruled the 16th amendment did not introduce a new tax. They had already previously ruled labor is property.

You are looking for a magic bullet that will hold up in the courts and it does not exist. The truth is the income taxation system is a fraud on the American people. The evidence is there and its crystal clear.

The magic bullet is personally deciding not to subject yourself to it.

Bingo.

Like I said they enforce a Constitutional law unconstitutionally with guns and force. So don't participate in this illegal activity but be prepared to face them when they come to get you.

I have decided to stop paying taxes (income and property). I hope they don't come for me but I will face that bridge when I come to it I guess. I will probably go to jail and they will willingly destroy another family with the iron fist but I don't have money to give them. It all had to go to support my family. So I lose I guess. I have reached my apathetic state again and really don't care for America and it's laws anymore. So I am deciding to abide by my own set of moral laws until they force me to live behind bars.

The real confusion for the masses come in to play with the definition of "Income" and how it doesn't apply to normal people. It's part of the war on words in this country that I have mentioned before. Remember Clintons "define 'is' " moment. This is why all laws are subject to interpretation. If the judge or the jury thinks chicken means beef than no matter what you say or what evidence you provide the beef is chicken and your going to jail.

[Matt Collins]

First off the 16th Amendment was never ratified.
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com


Secondly the IRS cannot FORCEto file a tax return. It's voluntary and most people don't know that.

[M House]

From what I understood the constitution only gave the power to tax the state sorta, some goods, and possibly some of your shit. I'm not sure how they can technically tax, you. You can however volunteer some money to them, apparently if they force you to.

[Cinderella]

doesnt matter what you say...whether its constitutional or not if you dont pay your taxes like a good little working american you will go to jail...nothing will be different until enough people wake up and refuse to file on a large scale, and if that happened im sure the gov would have no problem throwing us all in fema concentration camps that our tax dollars paid for...errr, oh im sorry those dont exist

[M House]

Guess I'm just going to have to blame my parents and not work. Well, I'd agree to if they paid me in gift cards.