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Austin
01-20-2009, 12:30 PM
I'll update when I get home from school. [Short version at the end]

Today, I had planned to pass out fliers exposing Obama as more of the same, in accordance to the Real Change Requires R3volution event. I sent a press release to my local newspaper. In my 5th period class, I was extracted my an administrator and escorted to his office. Prior to talking with me, he spoke with a few other administrators via walkie-talkie.

He then called me in, and asked me to explain why a Times-Union reporter would be coming to the school. I explained what I was doing, that I was intending to expose Barack Obama's policies, and that I had never intended to attack his character or his family. Almost immediately, the administrator understood and was halfway on my side. He asked to see the materials that I was going to distribute, and I obliged. I once again explained that I had no intention to cause any disruption or anything like that.

He understood, but stuck to the idea that disruption was a distinct possibility, especially considering the historic day it is. He asked if I was involved in politics outside of YAL, to which I answered yes. I explained that I was a state delegate to the Indiana Republican Convention, and that I had campaigned for Ron Paul in Iowa. He seemed impressed and I think this reassured him that I was not there to cause any problems.

Still, he had to talk to the higher ups in my school corporation. I waited for a few minutes until one of the higher ups came in. He was much more edgy with me. He seemed to think that the only reason I was demonstrating was to cause problems. He asked why I would invite the media to attend, as a rhetorical question. Instead, I answered and said that I thought they might like to report on young peoples' interest in politics. I also reminded him that I had been in the paper a few times before for my interest in politics.

He still didn't buy it, and remained very skeptical. He wasn't necessarily rude, but he certainly wasn't pleasant.

Finally, he asked for a copy of each of the materials that I was going to hand out. I obliged, because there was nothing wrong with the fliers. He then told me that they were going to keep the box of the materials. I understood the confiscation up to that point, but when I told them that I was going to pick the box of materials up after school, he didn't like that idea. The lower administration official said that it was fine, with the understanding that I would not bring back the materials later on.

The higher up official said he was going to meet with other officials before making a decision to give me the box of materials back. He noted that as of right now, I could pick the box up after school... but that the decision might change after he presented the materials back to the school.

I was dismissed to lunch, with under 10 minutes to eat.. So now I am waiting for them to contact me again.

tl;dr I got my YAL materials confiscated. One adminstrator was nice about, the other, not so much. They said it might take days before I get the materials back, but they will decide when they meet with other administration officials. Currently waiting on them to contact me again.

P.S. The reason I was pulled from class, was that the Times-Union journalist came to the school. So, I would have gotten media attention had they just let this thing go... Now, the are going to attract more attention to this than they wanted. More people are going to ask what happened, and more people are going to ask about the organization (YAL). Additionally, I would be surprised if the media came to me to ask for an interview on what happened....

I'll be sure to let you know how this pans out.

Athan
01-20-2009, 12:38 PM
ACLU them!

Austin
01-20-2009, 12:41 PM
ACLU them!

Depending on how the events unfold, I may do just that. It's been in the front of my mind ever since it happened.

Aratus
01-20-2009, 12:41 PM
way back in the late sixties, one of my teachers was into radical politics. the dear woman ACTUALLY
got a press release for the Black Panthers read into the morning announcements, and then some of her
students went about the school asking for quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies from the kids in my old
high school. ---needless to say, the parent groups were not amused. seems the people who now run our
high schools make their own sweet judgement calls. sincerely, i can't quite call many of the Ron Paul rEVOLUTIOn
materials as being as loaded or controversial. i think as you do, clearly someone apple~carted media-wise
and then did not have the decency to hand YOUR materials back! ....tis a very cynical tempest in a teapot???

Jeremy
01-20-2009, 12:42 PM
awesome!!!

(well obviously not because of them for being jerks, but good job etc)

Austin
01-20-2009, 12:44 PM
awesome!!!

(well obviously not because of them for being jerks, but good job etc)

Haha, I saw that before you edited it.. I understood what you meant, but it was still funny. :D

Cheers.

UtahApocalypse
01-20-2009, 12:45 PM
Depending on how the events unfold, I may do just that. It's been in the front of my mind ever since it happened.

You already have the media coming :D

Seriously that sounds like a violation of your 4th amendment right Illegal Seizure Sure they can tell you not pass them out on their property, they have no right at all though to take YOUR materials.

eric_cartman
01-20-2009, 12:45 PM
this is such BS. if you were passing out material in favour of Obama... that would have been completely fine. If you were passing out material that criticized Bush's policies, that would have been fine. But if you pass out anti-Obama material, you get in trouble? how is that free speech and freedom of expression?

next time they ask you why you're doing this... tell them because you're not a mindless, brainwashed sheep like everyone else at your school.

that's a pretty outrageous story

Jeremy
01-20-2009, 12:46 PM
Well is it a private or public school?

Austin
01-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Public high school.

brandon
01-20-2009, 12:50 PM
awesome!!!


:confused:

More like disgusting

Mini-Me
01-20-2009, 12:50 PM
Well is it a private or public school?

With respect to confiscation at least, it doesn't actually matter. When "confiscation" is permanent (as they are threatening), it's nothing more than a euphemism for an authority figure committing theft.

Austin
01-20-2009, 12:52 PM
:confused:

More like disgusting

He was referring to me participating in the event.. And he probably sees the good things that can come out of this, be it media attention, ACLU, etc.

I don't think he finds theft awesome.. :D

Edit: I'll be back with some updates at 5PM EST.

Lucille
01-20-2009, 12:54 PM
I'll update when I get home from school. [Short version at the end]

Today, I had planned to pass out fliers exposing Obama as more of the same, in accordance to the Real Change Requires R3volution event. I sent a press release to my local newspaper. In my 5th period class, I was extracted my an administrator and escorted to his office. Prior to talking with me, he spoke with a few other administrators via walkie-talkie.

He then called me in, and asked me to explain why a Times-Union reporter would be coming to the school. I explained what I was doing, that I was intending to expose Barack Obama's policies, and that I had never intended to attack his character or his family. Almost immediately, the administrator understood and was halfway on my side. He asked to see the materials that I was going to distribute, and I obliged. I once again explained that I had no intention to cause any disruption or anything like that.

He understood, but stuck to the idea that disruption was a distinct possibility, especially considering the historic day it is. He asked if I was involved in politics outside of YAL, to which I answered yes. I explained that I was a state delegate to the Indiana Republican Convention, and that I had campaigned for Ron Paul in Iowa. He seemed impressed and I think this reassured him that I was not there to cause any problems.

Still, he had to talk to the higher ups in my school corporation. I waited for a few minutes until one of the higher ups came in. He was much edgy with me. He seemed to think that the only reason I was demonstrating was to cause problems. He asked why I would invite the media to attend, as a rhetorical question. Instead, I answered and said that I thought they might like to report on young people's interest in politics. I also reminded him that I had been in the paper a few times before for my interest in politics.

He still didn't buy it, and remained very skeptical. He wasn't necessarily rude, but he certainly wasn't pleasant.

Finally, he asked for a copy of each of the materials that I was going to hand out. I obliged, because there was nothing wrong with the fliers. He then told me that they were going to keep the box of the materials. I understood the confiscation up to that point, but when I told them that I was going to pick the box of materials up after school, he didn't like that idea. The lower administration official said that it was fine, with the understanding that I would not bring back the materials later on.

The higher up official said he was going to meet with other officials before making a decision to give me the box of materials back. He noted that as of right now, I could pick the box up after school... but that the decision might change after he presented the materials back to the school.

I was dismissed to lunch, with under 10 minutes to eat.. So now I am waiting for them to contact me again.

tl;dr I got my YAL materials confiscated. One adminstrator was nice about, the other, not so much. They said it might take days before I get the materials back, but they will decide when they meet with other administration officials. Currently waiting on them to contact me again.

I'm currently waiting on them to contact me.

P.S. The reason I was pulled from class, was that the Times-Union journalist came to the school. So, I would have gotten media attention had they just let this thing go... Now, the are going to attract more attention to this than they wanted. More people are going to ask what happened, and more people are going to ask about the organization (YAL). Additionally, I would be surprised if the media came to me to ask for an interview on what happened....

I'll be sure to let you know how this pans out.

You need to contact FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/) today.

Mort
01-20-2009, 12:56 PM
:confused:

More like disgusting

If you read to the end, it sounds like the heavy hand of the school may end up working against it. More attention, interviews, etc.

Sandra
01-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Out of experiece past, if they return your materials and you're under 18, the ACLU won't be interested. They're kinda picky.

TonySutton
01-20-2009, 12:59 PM
If they keep the materials please ask them specifically which rules you have violated. This will cause them to go on record and will let them know you are not going to stand by and allow them to make things up on the fly.

lucius
01-20-2009, 01:04 PM
Good for you...you get to keep your rights by using them: it may feel like tilting at windmills most of the time though, so better get your skin thick. Try to talk to that reporter as well. Every time I fly in the states, I give myself couple extra hours for my form of protest.

This is another great thing as well: http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/pics/banner.gif

Lucille
01-20-2009, 01:07 PM
Out of experiece past, if they return your materials and you're under 18, the ACLU won't be interested. They're kinda picky.

The ACLU would not be interested in anyone who opposed Obama.

FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/4851.html) would be very interested.


Mission

The mission of FIRE is to defend and sustain individual rights at America's colleges and universities. These rights include freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience—the essential qualities of individual liberty and dignity. FIRE's core mission is to protect the unprotected and to educate the public and communities of concerned Americans about the threats to these rights on our campuses and about the means to preserve them.

ronpaulhawaii
01-20-2009, 01:14 PM
...

tl;dr I got my YAL materials confiscated. One adminstrator was nice about, the other, not so much. They said it might take days before I get the materials back, but they will decide when they meet with other administration officials. Currently waiting on them to contact me again.

I'm currently waiting on them to contact me.

P.S. The reason I was pulled from class, was that the Times-Union journalist came to the school. So, I would have gotten media attention had they just let this thing go... Now, the are going to attract more attention to this than they wanted. More people are going to ask what happened, and more people are going to ask about the organization (YAL). Additionally, I would be surprised if the media came to me to ask for an interview on what happened....

I'll be sure to let you know how this pans out.

haha :) Good Job,

http://www.finitesite.com/thewolfspirit/valley_forge.jpg

ShannonOBrien
01-20-2009, 01:15 PM
That makes me so mad! I hated public school. They just micromanage every little thing and try to make you feel like you have no choice in the matter. I actually used to believe that too.

Austin
01-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Forgot I had access to the internet 7th period today...

In the event that he refuses to return the materials, what actions should I take? Is there any specific documentation I should ask for, or anything like that? I want to make sure this is handled properly.

lucius
01-20-2009, 01:44 PM
Forgot I had access to the internet 7th period today...

In the event that he refuses to return the materials, what actions should I take? Is there any specific documentation I should ask for, or anything like that? I want to make sure this is handled properly.

Have fun with this...might I suggest a 'Petition for Redress of Grievances' out of Article One of the Bill of Rights. Remember, have fun with it: make a copy and send it registered mail, return receipt requested. I have done this to cops/police department with little affect, I might add, except extreme internal satisfaction on my part and moderate ill-will all around. I'm sure others might have a better idea... :)

Matt Collins
01-20-2009, 01:50 PM
Let's see how this plays out. But if there are grounds, I would love to see YAL file a lawsuit on your behalf :D

transistor
01-20-2009, 02:10 PM
good luck!

TonySutton
01-20-2009, 02:15 PM
I am assuming you attend Warsaw Community HS.

You can view a pdf copy of your school handbook from this link. It is 60 pages long. I glanced through it and did not see anything which specifically discussed campaigning for causes or distributing materials. You may need to refer to this if they state you violated a specific rule.

See WCHS Handbook in the left menu

http://wchs.warsaw.k12.in.us/

anaconda
01-20-2009, 02:19 PM
Nice, Krippy! You're a great American Patriot. I would consider a consultation with an attorney. I think the school administrators may have committed several violations, and if you can win in court it may help others down the road with freedom of political speech and expression. I might argue that they stole your possessions, deprived you from your education during 5th period, falsly imprisoned you, violated your free speech, and so on and so on.

t0rnado
01-20-2009, 02:38 PM
I am assuming you attend Warsaw Community HS.

You can view a pdf copy of your school handbook from this link. It is 60 pages long. I glanced through it and did not see anything which specifically discussed campaigning for causes or distributing materials. You may need to refer to this if they state you violated a specific rule.

See WCHS Handbook in the left menu

http://wchs.warsaw.k12.in.us/

They can throw in whatever 'policies' they want, but that does not make them the law.

I was taping up posters today at school that said, "Obama '08 / Biden '09", and no one even bothered me.

The school administrator can't just take your property away unless you just give it to him. Your school administrators sound like they're on power trips and they're acting like 5 year olds pretending to be FBI agents with the walkie talkies and crap.

tonesforjonesbones
01-20-2009, 02:44 PM
Call FOX NEWS! Get on Fox. Call the ACLU..they WILL do something because it happened with a young girl in Tallahassee fl, who was suspended for wearing a gay t shirt and she won, and recenly down the road from me where 2 kids complained about prayer in the school. I dunno...since it was anti obama , they may not help but thhen you can expose the ACLU also if they don't take on the case. Continue to go talk about it at the news paper, and your local news outlets. Give us the number and we will blow up the school switchboard. Tones

gaazn
01-20-2009, 02:46 PM
Public schools have so much power. You can't win.

Andrew-Austin
01-20-2009, 02:51 PM
If it were my younger self in your shoes, I probably would have just done my best at pissing off the school officials, called the confiscation unjustified theft to their faces, and left it at that. But there is no reason to at least see if the ACLU is interested.


Public schools have so much power. You can't win.

What is winning?

Elwar
01-20-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm thinking that if you show the slightest bit of intelligence and the fact that you know that you have rights they might just give you your stuff just to make sure they don't have to waste any of their time. Mention a lawyer and they'll jump.

I've watched a few shows here recently where teenagers are screwed over by cops which use them as the scapegoats in crimes that they can't solve simply because they can manipulate a confession out of them easily, half because the kids don't know their legal rights as far as getting out of an interregation (basically lawyering up) and the vulnerable state they're in in the first place. I remember myself in high school, I would've let any cop search my vehicle or anything of mine if they asked. I wouldn't have known that I could refuse, I didn't know most of my rights at that age. Most people don't know really. I'm not saying that you don't have a good head on your shoulders, just that there's a lot of legal crap that lawyers get paid to know.

fr33domfightr
01-20-2009, 03:00 PM
If you have any PRIVATE dealings with the admin staff, it might be best to be wired up with video & audio surveillance equipment. You never know when the truth needs to be made public. Expect retaliation should tapes be made public, however.

Students are generally considered an underclass (with NO rights). It sounds to me like typical political correctness (ie. don't speak out against the honorable black man, he can do NO wrong, after all, he's the messiah).



FF

mediahasyou
01-20-2009, 03:06 PM
The Supreme Court has ruled about cases like this with free speech in public high schools.

As they have ruled, as long as you do not disrupt the learning environment it is okay.

In addition, your materials and stuff passed out must add social value. If you are advocating that Obama be impeached and have presented facts, that would be increasing social value.

However, I have not seen your materials and stuff. you should post that.

satchelmcqueen
01-20-2009, 03:08 PM
be sure to tell the media your stuff was seized unlawfully if you dont get it back.

mediahasyou
01-20-2009, 03:13 PM
Is this the materials passed out?

http://www.yaliberty.org/change/downloads.php

Austin
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
Is this the materials passed out?

http://www.yaliberty.org/change/downloads.php

I actually never had the chance to pass anything out, my materials were confiscated beforehand.

I had the following printed out and/or received from YAL National:

http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/bo4.pdf
http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/changeportrait4.pdf

and stickers of
http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/disappointed.pdf
http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/notchange.pdf
http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/thumbs/obamunism.jpg

I also had sign up sheets
http://www.yaliberty.org/change/flyers/signupsheet.pdf

EDIT: and a lot of pocket Constitutions [my favorite item]

Austin
01-20-2009, 03:42 PM
I went to the administrator's office after school (the first one I described) to get my materials back. He first said that he had yet to hear back from central administration, implying that he couldn't give me the materials back. He checked his email and looked around for a bit, probably thinking about what to do.

He ultimately decided on giving my materials back, on the condition that I do not distribute them until he hears from central administration. The higher official still has a few stickers and fliers, and I do not know when, or even, I will get those returned.

I will probably hear from him again within a few days. I expect to have those materials returned to me promptly, and in the same condition they were lent to him.

Here is where I need advice.... What do I do now? Should I let this thing blow over (methinks no), contact the ACLU, FIRE, or the media? Or should I get a hold of all of the above. The fact remains, they did take the stuff from me, before I had even distributed it or attempted to do so. The also pulled me out of my 5th period, where we were witnessing the historic inauguration. Missing out on the inauguration ceremony has deprived me of remembering a very important part of history! Furthermore, I am still not allowed to distribute the materials any time in the future, with or without a 'demonstration.'

Even though I got my box of materials back, this still doesn't seem right; I will not stand by and do nothing. The question is, what do I do next?

surf
01-20-2009, 03:48 PM
contact the reporter that was going to cover your story. if he/she has not already written the story, make an effort to make sure that the story is reported correctly.

reporters often write on their own, but are more than often willing to take help. this would be compelling to any beat reporter: evil school denies rights to political activist student

StudentForPaul08
01-20-2009, 03:49 PM
You should be able to distribute the materials. That is an offense right there, also, they should have never taken them away, and pulled you out of class. I say, contact as many people as you can, and read the school statutes.

voytechs
01-20-2009, 04:03 PM
Contact the newspaper and tell them what happened. May be they'll report it as rights abuses at your school.

Austin
01-20-2009, 04:07 PM
I've sent an email to the person that contacted me about covering the event. Here is a little excerpt of what was said at the end of the message:


Either way, I feel like this story should not be swept under the rug. If you feel that the people of Warsaw have the right to know about students' rights at our learning institutions, I would be interested in providing more information in a more formal manner, or even participating in an interview.

Hopefully he takes me up on my offer, and gets a firsthand account of what happened. Once again, I'll be sure to post here when I get any new information..

Thank you for you words of encouragement and sage advice. :)

Dequeant
01-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Source (http://www.cas.okstate.edu/jb/faculty/senat/jb3163/studentpress.html)

This supreme court case should back them down.



Constitutional rights extend to students, even when they're on public-school property.
First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate. This has been the unmistakable holding of this court for almost 50 years.

Public school officials must justify attempts to suppress or punish speech. They cannot stop or punish speech solely because they find it offensive. But, they can regulate speech when they show that the expression would cause a "substantial disruption of or material interference with school activities."

Distribute the materials tomorrow whether they like it or not. Do not cause any disturbance whatsoever. If the faculty attempt to stop you, cite this court case and state to them "To legally impede me from distributing this material you must demonstrate that it will cause a substantial disruption of or material interference with school activities".

Most likely they will leave you alone....if not, you will quickly win in court. It will get lots of free media attention for the YAL (especially since the state will have to pay your legal fees if they choose to take you to court).

Austin
01-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Source (http://www.cas.okstate.edu/jb/faculty/senat/jb3163/studentpress.html)

This supreme court case should back them down.


Distribute the materials tomorrow whether they like it or not. Do not cause any disturbance whatsoever. If the faculty attempt to stop you, cite this court case and state to them "To legally impede me from distributing this material you must demonstrate that it will cause a substantial disruption of or material interference with school activities".

Most likely they will leave you alone....if not, you will quickly win in court. It will get lots of free media attention for the YAL (especially since the state will have to pay your legal fees if they choose to take you to court).

This is incredibly tempting... What a test this is..

shaggy240v
01-20-2009, 04:53 PM
This is incredibly tempting... What a test this is..

God speed Krippy!

Lucille
01-20-2009, 04:56 PM
I've sent an email to the person that contacted me about covering the event. Here is a little excerpt of what was said at the end of the message:



Hopefully he takes me up on my offer, and gets a firsthand account of what happened. Once again, I'll be sure to post here when I get any new information..

Thank you for you words of encouragement and sage advice. :)

Please call FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/) today and tell them your story.

Austin
01-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Please call FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/) today and tell them your story.

It says that they do not want any phone calls, so I assume I should use the form they provided?

Lucille
01-20-2009, 05:18 PM
It says that they do not want any phone calls, so I assume I should use the form they provided?

LOL! Sorry! Make that "Contact FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/index.php/submit)."

I hate what your school did to you today.

Austin
01-20-2009, 05:22 PM
To be honest, the only thing holding me back from Dequeant's suggestion is the fact that they hold my educational future in there twitchy little fingers. While I doubt they would sink low enough to do something like catastrophic, as I am an above average student, I wouldn't put it past them.. Who knows.

I'm going to have to sleep on it before I make any major decision. I just don't want to be alone on this if shit hits the fan....

dr. hfn
01-20-2009, 05:26 PM
take em down! expose your corrupt school officials and obama's policies. This cannot stand!

Lucille
01-20-2009, 05:30 PM
I can't say I blame you for worrying about that, Krippy.

MRoCkEd
01-20-2009, 05:31 PM
To be honest, the only thing holding me back from Dequeant's suggestion is the fact that they hold my educational future in there twitchy little fingers. While I doubt they would sink low enough to do something like catastrophic, as I am an above average student, I wouldn't put it past them.. Who knows.

I'm going to have to sleep on it before I make any major decision. I just don't want to be alone on this if shit hits the fan....
They aren't going to suspend you for peacefully passing out fliers to fellow classmates at lunch and between classes.

Austin
01-20-2009, 05:43 PM
They aren't going to suspend you for peacefully passing out fliers to fellow classmates at lunch and between classes.

Insubordination.
Promoting a fight. (this was seriously one of their concerns, they thought that my intent was to create altercations)
Biased college recommendation letters.

I see insubordination as the biggest problem, considering the administrator specifically told me not bring the materials to school again. The recommendation letters are also an issue.. Also, in the event that I do get suspended on illegal grounds, there is no guarantee that I can win in court...

Is it worth the risk...

More advice please! :o

surf
01-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Krippy - i have no more (good) advice, but i admire what you are doing. if you really believe that this may jeopardize your future in some way, i'd steer my actions in a way to avoid this. if, on the other hand, you have teachers that will admire your actions, go for it.

do letters of recommendation from teachers really carry weight in the college application process? whatever happened to the SAT (and GPA) being the deciding factors?

Austin
01-20-2009, 05:51 PM
Here is an excerpt from my school's handbook that concerns me..


III. Grounds for Suspension and/or Expulsion.

(A) Grounds for suspension or expulsion are student misconduct or substantial disobedience. The following include examples of student misconduct or substantial disobedience for which a student may be suspended or expelled include, but are not limited to:


(1) Using violence, force, noise, coercion, threat, intimidation, fear, passive resistance, or other comparable conduct constituting an interference with school purposes, or urging other students to engage in such conduct.

(12) Failing in a number of instances to comply with directions of teachers or other school personnel during any period of time when the student is properly under their supervision, where the failure constitutes an interference with school purposes or an educational function.

(16) Violating any rules that are reasonably necessary in carrying out school purposes or an educational function including, but not limited to:
b) Disobedience of administrative authority;
d) Engaging in speech or conduct, including clothing, jewelry or hair style which is profane, indecent, lewd, vulgar, or offensive to school purposes.

And while I know, and most of my friends know, that I am not trying to disrupt learning in any way... the final call is up to the administrators. My instinct tells me they wouldn't like my defiance, and would consequently disregard my intent and just claim that I was breaking the rules..

Austin
01-20-2009, 05:55 PM
Krippy - i have no more (good) advice, but i admire what you are doing. if you really believe that this may jeopardize your future in some way, i'd steer my actions in a way to avoid this. if, on the other hand, you have teachers that will admire your actions, go for it.

do letters of recommendation from teachers really carry weight in the college application process? whatever happened to the SAT (and GPA) being the deciding factors?

My ACT scores are in the 94th percentile, and my GPA is hovering around 3.4.. Now that I think about it, I think that regardless of my actions, I could still find quite a few teachers that would write me a letter of recommendation.. I have had nothing but fantastic relationships with my teachers.. Thanks, that's alleviated concerns with that...

Now my only concern is an unneeded disciplinary history..

Thanks a bunch guys, your words are very encouraging.

sluggo
01-20-2009, 06:05 PM
That's a great story. Good work!

Call a civil rights attorney - if they smell publicity they might take your case pro bono. lol

Roxi
01-20-2009, 06:13 PM
fantastic job! i know a few high schoolers who support ron paul but are afraid to admit they aren't obamaniacs to the people at school for fear of what might happen to them, thanks for having the guts to stand up for whats right

Imperial
01-20-2009, 06:28 PM
I will tell you this: it isn't worth it to try to ignore their orders. As much as I am for standing up for our principles, to destroy your disciplinary record for its sake probably isn't the wisest idea. Especially because once you get to college you can advocate all you want.

And, if you seem calm and collected you will get at least some of their attentions. It would probably be better to find allies in the administration and established teaching staff and peacefully argue your case. Let them make themselves look like idiots if they wish it, although hopefully they will be respectful as well.

Plus, if you rage against the machine there goes any possibility of having moral high ground against those who fear "insubordination". Specifically, your case in a newspaper becomes that much less appealing. All the people in the area would see some kid is a firebrand and just a youth who has to grow up. However, a rational mentality will get you much further.

Dequeant
01-20-2009, 07:10 PM
Legally, they cannot stop or impede you from distributing whatever you wish. You have a RIGHT to free speech and they will have to DENY YOU to get their way. They will have zero legal right to do anything to your for distributing the materials. None. Even if they come out and say "you are disobeying a faculty member, we will suspend you" they are doing what amounts to something that is unlawful. Unlawful directions even from teachers need not be obeyed. You will come out squeaky clean, period. Every supreme court case of this nature that did not intentionally impede learning has sided with the student against the school. It is one area where the courts have been consistent.

Your high school faculty will not be on your side, the courts will.

Do not choose either way without thinking very carefully. I cannot even comprehend how oblivious and young I was at your age. You will have some growing up to do there if you distribute those materials. With that said, if you don't, you'll have to face yourself every day knowing someone took your right from you and you did not resist. However, it is your right to use, or your right to waive. It does not belong to anyone here, so no one here has any say in what you do tomorrow. Make the decision of your own free will and without reservation.

Chester Copperpot
01-20-2009, 07:22 PM
Did you ever think of handing out materials after school or before school on the public sidewalk right near the school????

t0rnado
01-20-2009, 08:46 PM
I don't know if you're a senior or not, but I'd suggest distributing all of your materials and taking legal action after you get your acceptance letters from colleges.

Also, the school's guidelines aren't laws. The only authority that the administrators and teachers have is the authority that you give them. You are only public land and teachers and administrators are just other citizens.

You could hand out whatever you want on the sidewalk or nail some fliers to posts near the school until you are certain that you can take legal action without having the school try to screw you over.

One interesting thing I read the other day was that the State Government here in NJ told local schools not to spend money on anything they didn't have to because they would be getting less funding. Now NJ happens to be a very rich state, but the point is that state government and local government budgets are dry. With that in mind, if you called the ACLU, the school probably wouldn't waste money on a lawyer.

syborius
01-20-2009, 08:56 PM
how ridiculous. I think they might have a case for interrupting the school process. Just make more copies and take a stand. I would keep on pushing, I would also tell the media what happened. Maybe you can hand out the materials off of school grounds as students leave? And have the media report on that.

Austin
01-20-2009, 09:27 PM
Legally, they cannot stop or impede you from distributing whatever you wish. You have a RIGHT to free speech and they will have to DENY YOU to get their way. They will have zero legal right to do anything to your for distributing the materials. None. Even if they come out and say "you are disobeying a faculty member, we will suspend you" they are doing what amounts to something that is unlawful. Unlawful directions even from teachers need not be obeyed. You will come out squeaky clean, period. Every supreme court case of this nature that did not intentionally impede learning has sided with the student against the school. It is one area where the courts have been consistent.

Your high school faculty will not be on your side, the courts will.

Do not choose either way without thinking very carefully. I cannot even comprehend how oblivious and young I was at your age. You will have some growing up to do there if you distribute those materials. With that said, if you don't, you'll have to face yourself every day knowing someone took your right from you and you did not resist. However, it is your right to use, or your right to waive. It does not belong to anyone here, so no one here has any say in what you do tomorrow. Make the decision of your own free will and without reservation.

Well damn, that made it a whole lot easier. :p

satchelmcqueen
01-20-2009, 09:28 PM
if they can show obamas point of view on tv, then i dont see why you cant also show your point of view. seems one sided to me. contact the aclu and see if they will help. besides, dont obama supporters claim to want to be fair and just. use their own words against them.

i do however see how you could be worried about your education there if you go further. i think the aclu or major attention will keep them from doing to much, but then again i ant in your shoes although i do know what you mean.

Austin
01-20-2009, 09:40 PM
Before I pass anything out, I'm going to call the ACLU to see if anyone will take a stand and fight with alongside me. I do not want to stand down and take this... The moment we stop exercising our rights is the moment we will begin to lose our rights. That said, I cannot fight the powers that be alone. I'll be struggling to pay for college as it is, and I won't be able to afford an attorney to defend me, should it escalate to that level.

So I'm going to call ACLU tomorrow and see what their reaction is..

Either way, I will be talking to my local newspaper about this if they get back to me..

Andrew Ryan
01-20-2009, 10:41 PM
Before I pass anything out, I'm going to call the ACLU to see if anyone will take a stand and fight with alongside me. I do not want to stand down and take this... The moment we stop exercising our rights is the moment we will begin to lose our rights. That said, I cannot fight the powers that be alone. I'll be struggling to pay for college as it is, and I won't be able to afford an attorney to defend me, should it escalate to that level.

So I'm going to call ACLU tomorrow and see what their reaction is..

Either way, I will be talking to my local newspaper about this if they get back to me..
Good luck!

BlackTerrel
01-20-2009, 11:51 PM
That's jacked up. I wouldn't go quietly about this if I were you!

fr33domfightr
01-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Krippy said: "He then called me in, and asked me to explain why a Times-Union reporter would be coming to the school."

If a Times-Union reporter was to come to your school, he should have still come. The reporter should be asking what happened, and write about what WAS TO OCCUR, AND WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED.


Regarding your Quote:

III. Grounds for Suspension and/or Expulsion.
(A) Grounds for suspension or expulsion are student misconduct or substantial disobedience. The following include examples of student misconduct or substantial disobedience for which a student may be suspended or expelled include, but are not limited to:
(1) Using violence, force, noise, coercion, threat, intimidation, fear, passive resistance, or other comparable conduct constituting an interference with school purposes, or urging other students to engage in such conduct.

(12) Failing in a number of instances to comply with directions of teachers or other school personnel during any period of time when the student is properly under their supervision, where the failure constitutes an interference with school purposes or an educational function.

(16) Violating any rules that are reasonably necessary in carrying out school purposes or an educational function including, but not limited to:
b) Disobedience of administrative authority;
d) Engaging in speech or conduct, including clothing, jewelry or hair style which is profane, indecent, lewd, vulgar, or offensive to school purposes.


My understanding of "Passive Resistance," means the act of physically passively resisting orders to move from a place that might block or disrupt the movement or the normal operations of the school or activities. For instance, laying down on the ground and block people from walking to class, or doing so in a classroom, thereby disrupting instruction. It's "passive," in that you're not forcing yourself on others, but your actions do interfere. This is like in California where the NO ON 8 crowd block streets by sitting in them. If you weren't planning on this, then that wouldn't apply. If you aren't enticing others to do this, then you aren't urging others in this either.

In the next part, you quote that you must follow orders, but the key isn't anytime, its only when the student is properly under their supervision. This means during class time, not on your breaks or lunch, since at those time, you aren't properly under their supervision. The proper part means during class time, when the teacher IS the controlling authority.

The Disobedience of administrative authority only appears to apply during normal school activities and/or educational functions. Your break times aren't the times when administration is actively teaching. It's also the only time you could really talk to fellow students, so as not to do it during class.

I hope this helps. I totally remember when I was in HS, and IIRC, teachers talked down to students. I really wished they'd just treat us like adults. They treated us like we were children.



FF

Austin
01-21-2009, 08:39 AM
Krippy said: "He then called me in, and asked me to explain why a Times-Union reporter would be coming to the school."

If a Times-Union reporter was to come to your school, he should have still come. The reporter should be asking what happened, and write about what WAS TO OCCUR, AND WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED.

In the next part, you quote that you must follow orders, but the key isn't anytime, its only when the student is properly under their supervision. This means during class time, not on your breaks or lunch, since at those time, you aren't properly under their supervision. The proper part means during class time, when the teacher IS the controlling authority.

The Disobedience of administrative authority only appears to apply during normal school activities and/or educational functions. Your break times aren't the times when administration is actively teaching. It's also the only time you could really talk to fellow students, so as not to do it during class.

I hope this helps. I totally remember when I was in HS, and IIRC, teachers talked down to students. I really wished they'd just treat us like adults. They treated us like we were children.

FF

The Times-Union reporter did show up at the school, but he/she was turned away.

Thanks for clearing up the passive resistance thing.

At lunch time, we are under administrative authority. They typically have 2-3 administrators monitoring the lunch room. The school officer is usually in the area that I planned on distributing materials.

You seem to be correct about the last rule I cited. Lunch is not an educational experience, although I can see them coming up with some BS that my activities stopped some people from eating lunch. Highly unlikely, though.

So now the only thing with any weight is the disobeying administrators...

The teachers are fine at my high school, at least to me. My first period teacher half-way encouraged me to fight the decision. He also said that if Mr. Kline (higher up official) had any questions about my character, he could talk to him about it...

I'm hoping to hear a decision from central administration today.

Austin
01-21-2009, 12:10 PM
Update:

I got an email back from the reporter that came to the school. She is interested in covering the events that occurred, and wants to interview me as well. She stated that she is currently trying to track down the administrators involved, to get their comment and whatnot. She also wants them to inform her of what school policies that I violated.

As soon as I get out of school today, I am supposed to call her to set up an appointment. She plans on taking pictures of me with the items I planned on distributing. I'm excited that this violation of rights is going to get exposure.

I still plan on contacting ACLU after school. I've also thought about contacting Bill'O, mainly because he will say it was the dirty liberals that prevented me from distributing materials. My only concern with that is... I live in Warsaw, Indiana: one of the most conservative towns in the states. My county had the highest McCain percentage in the election.

Still, the revolution will be journalized! :)

angelatc
01-21-2009, 12:11 PM
It might be a conservative town but the teachers are absolutely liberals.

SnappleLlama
01-21-2009, 12:16 PM
Update:

I got an email back from the reporter that came to the school. She is interested in covering the events that occurred, and wants to interview me as well. She stated that she is currently trying to track down the administrators involved, to get their comment and whatnot. She also wants them to inform her of what school policies that I violated.

As soon as I get out of school today, I am supposed to call her to set up an appointment. She plans on taking pictures of me with the items I planned on distributing. I'm excited that this violation of rights is going to get exposure.

I still plan on contacting ACLU after school. I've also thought about contacting Bill'O, mainly because he will say it was the dirty liberals that prevented me from distributing materials. My only concern with that is... I live in Warsaw, Indiana: one of the most conservative towns in the states. My county had the highest McCain percentage in the election.

Still, the revolution will be journalized! :)

Awesome news!! Keep us posted!

UtahApocalypse
01-21-2009, 12:20 PM
Update:

I got an email back from the reporter that came to the school. She is interested in covering the events that occurred, and wants to interview me as well. She stated that she is currently trying to track down the administrators involved, to get their comment and whatnot. She also wants them to inform her of what school policies that I violated.

As soon as I get out of school today, I am supposed to call her to set up an appointment. She plans on taking pictures of me with the items I planned on distributing. I'm excited that this violation of rights is going to get exposure.

I still plan on contacting ACLU after school. I've also thought about contacting Bill'O, mainly because he will say it was the dirty liberals that prevented me from distributing materials. My only concern with that is... I live in Warsaw, Indiana: one of the most conservative towns in the states. My county had the highest McCain percentage in the election.

Still, the revolution will be journalized! :)

I have to LOL at your School.... You justv wanted to pass out a few fliers, maybe get a couple new members to YAL. Now the school is going to get bad publicity and expand your cause. I really love when we get top teach people "Blowback"

sratiug
01-21-2009, 12:40 PM
Simple solution. Call or go to the police station and report a robbery. Your materials were stolen. Tell the police you want them back. Stealing is against the law.

Austin
01-21-2009, 12:43 PM
It might be a conservative town but the teachers are absolutely liberals.

You'd be surprised at how many of my teachers are conservatives. I can tell you that 5 of the 6 teachers I currently have are Republicans. One might not necessarily be a registered Republican, but he stated before that he would have rather had McCain president.

In fact, I only know of about 5 or 6 teachers in the school that are liberals.


I have to LOL at your School.... You justv wanted to pass out a few fliers, maybe get a couple new members to YAL. Now the school is going to get bad publicity and expand your cause. I really love when we get top teach people "Blowback"

Yeah, I've been telling that to all of my friends. Had they allowed me to pass out the fliers... I would have educated some people, signed up some members, and they would have had a positive mention in the paper..

Instead, I'm going to get far more people interested in YAL from the media attention. On top of that, they will almost assuredly be portrayed in a negative manner in the story that is reported.

We win. :cool:

Austin
01-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Simple solution. Call or go to the police station and report a robbery. Your materials were stolen. Tell the police you want them back. Stealing is against the law.

If only it were that simple. I highly doubt the police would be on my side. I'm just another rebellious kid pissed off at the system.

Besides, when have you seen the police actually fight for your rights? :p

Anyhow, the box of materials has been since returned.

Aratus
01-21-2009, 12:55 PM
good for them! are they trying to duck the nationwide press corp? do keep to your ideals!
seems someone knew that what you did was at worst in a gray area, and that they were
trying to applecart things. the ACLU might get involved. the freedom of speech implications!

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
01-21-2009, 01:00 PM
It is a good plan but I would leave Bill O'Reilly out of it. He is just a nitwit who I am sure will turn on you in a heartbeat once he finds out your connection to Ron Paul!

sratiug
01-21-2009, 01:11 PM
If only it were that simple. I highly doubt the police would be on my side. I'm just another rebellious kid pissed off at the system.

Besides, when have you seen the police actually fight for your rights? :p

Anyhow, the box of materials has been since returned.

It is that simple. Stealing is stealing. If you left with the teacher's car would you get suspended or arrested? A major reason our country is in the shitter is because people disregard simple solutions. The police don't have to be on your side, they just have to do their job. The only way to show the government is not above the law is to hold them to the law.

Were all of your materials returned?

mczerone
01-21-2009, 01:27 PM
To be honest, the only thing holding me back from Dequeant's suggestion is the fact that they hold my educational future in there twitchy little fingers. While I doubt they would sink low enough to do something like catastrophic, as I am an above average student, I wouldn't put it past them.. Who knows.

I'm going to have to sleep on it before I make any major decision. I just don't want to be alone on this if shit hits the fan....

Screw the HS Diploma - a GED is just as good. If they threaten an academic punishment, just threaten to leave. Remind them that you are a good student and the quality of the student body will be hurt in your absence.

ronpaulhawaii
01-21-2009, 02:56 PM
As much as I am for standing up for our principles, to destroy your disciplinary record for its sake probably isn't the wisest idea. Especially because once you get to college you can advocate all you want.

But, sometimes it seems, once you get to college someone'll say, "think of your job prospects." Then, it'll be "the kids." Then, you've developed a habit of in-action and it's too late...

Carpe Diem!


And, if you seem calm and collected you will get at least some of their attentions. It would probably be better to find allies in the administration and established teaching staff and peacefully argue your case. Let them make themselves look like idiots if they wish it, although hopefully they will be respectful as well.

This^^^


Plus, if you rage against the machine there goes any possibility of having moral high ground against those who fear "insubordination". Specifically, your case in a newspaper becomes that much less appealing. All the people in the area would see some kid is a firebrand and just a youth who has to grow up. However, a rational mentality will get you much further.

If the activist (Krippy, in this case) is considering a career in politics, an event like this can be capitalized on, in multiple ways.

Keeping a good natured sense of humor about it usually helps. What I see is a simple case where a student/activist was prevented from one form of activism, and is using the situation to learn about another form.:D



Yeah, I've been telling that to all of my friends. Had they allowed me to pass out the fliers... I would have educated some people, signed up some members, and they would have had a positive mention in the paper..

Instead, I'm going to get far more people interested in YAL from the media attention. On top of that, they will almost assuredly be portrayed in a negative manner in the story that is reported.

We win. :cool:

http://www.patriotprintshoppe.com/tn_TheSpiritOf1776ByArchibaldM.Willard.jpg

ClayTrainor
01-21-2009, 03:11 PM
This is potentially, one of the greatest threads in RPF History.

Keep up the great work Krippy, you are a true patriot :cool:

Austin
01-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Update:

I was interviewed today by the journalist that was supposed to cover the event. I think the interview went well; she kept an unbiased perspective. She took to the idea that that was a lack of communication when it came to policies, because they never informed me of any policies that I was breaking. Apparently, any political material has to be approved by an administrator. I noted that I felt that this policy was a violation of my first amendment rights, and that it should be changed. The last time the policy was revised was back in 1999.

I also brought along the Outreach Director of my YAL chapter, a good friend of mine. He just so happens to be African American, and while some would call that an insignificant factor, I find it very significant. Not every single African American is ecstatic about Obama's inauguration.

She took a picture of us holding up the various materials.

She noted that she has not done a story like this in Warsaw, involving both politics and education. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

She also wanted a copy of each of the materials that I had planned on distributing. I forgot to give her a Pocket Constitution, but she noticed. She was very interested in that little piece of literature. :D That made me pretty happy.

I'll be sure to scan the article tomorrow, or whenever it is put in the paper.

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their words of encouragement!

UtahApocalypse
01-21-2009, 05:16 PM
Update:

I was interviewed today by the journalist that was supposed to cover the event. I think the interview went well; she kept an unbiased perspective. She took to the idea that that was a lack of communication when it came to policies, because they never informed me of any policies that I was breaking. Apparently, any political material has to be approved by an administrator. I noted that I felt that this policy was a violation of my first amendment rights, and that it should be changed. The last time the policy was revised was back in 1999.

I also brought along the Outreach Director of my YAL chapter, a good friend of mine. He just so happens to be African American, and while some would call that an insignificant factor, I find it very significant. Not every single African American is ecstatic about Obama's inauguration.

She took a picture of us holding up the various materials.

She noted that she has not done a story like this in Warsaw, involving both politics and education. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

She also wanted a copy of each of the materials that I had planned on distributing. I forgot to give her a Pocket Constitution, but she noticed. She was very interested in that little piece of literature. :D That made me pretty happy.

I'll be sure to scan the article tomorrow, or whenever it is put in the paper.

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their words of encouragement!

Well played Sir, Well played :D

tonesforjonesbones
01-21-2009, 05:30 PM
Way to go Krippy! Call your local television channels and ask if you can be a guest on their morning shows or their noon shows...and talk about liberty, and the constitution..I think when people find out they were preventing you from passing out copies of our Constitution, they will sympathize with you. I had the Wal Mart people tell me I couldn't pass out pocket Constitutions in the parking lot on my way into the store. I told the manager i was going to do it anyway..and I tried to hand her one, she wouldn't take it. People are so silly..honestly. tones