Is MLK A Hero of Yours?

[SevenEyedJeff]

He sure is a hero in my book. Civil disobedience to free his people? It's just amazing that he wound up being in a position to make such a positive difference for our country. We sure haven't seen many great leaders since then.

His methods may be similar to what we have to do to stop the tyranny of a world government imo.

[heavenlyboy34]

I like him a lot. :) I wish people wouldn't misrepresent his views to advance their agenda tho. :(

[asimplegirl]

I think, like HB, that he is misrepresented today. He was a wonderful man, who stood for nothing but equality, not racism to any other race besides blacks as some leaders do today.

I wish he were still around. He'd put all and Jesse in their place.

I saw a video with one very close friend of MLK, and he said that MLK would not have even voted for Obama. He would have been proud that he could be president, but wouldn't have liked his policies, and would have just said, "A black president will happen soon, just not today"

[RSLudlum]

Yes due soley to his stance on dissent and civil disobedience in practice. Through his own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U

[Kludge]

Good guy, but not a hero. I only refer to a couple people as heroes and they don't even have their own Wikipedia page :(

[noxagol]

Considering he was a big socialist as well according to Tom Woods' books, no.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Here is a pretty good video about his assassination:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3793111576487038398&ei=uqFqSanWOpHEqQLm-YX9CA&q=The+Assassination+of+Martin+Luther+King%2C+Jr.+

[wizardwatson]

I'm a Malcolm X man myself. Don't know why.

Cooler name I suppose.

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes due soley to his stance on dissent and civil disobedience in practice. Through his own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U

Thanx! MLK's anti-war speeches are great, IMHO. :D

[youropinioncounts]

No, not really.

He was not all that great.

check out this website:martinlutherking.org (http://martinlutherking.org)



.

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm a Malcolm X man myself.

I never got to read much about him. Do you mind elaborating on why you like him? :confused:

[Athan]

Definitely a hero to me in the same manner Dr. Paul is.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I wish there a were s stronger option than "no". I think this man managed to con a bunch of people and his minions are using his name and image to continue to push for socialism under the guise of equality today.

[jack555]

Yes for his work on civil (or as I seen them natural) rights. But not for anything else (his socialist views...)

[LibertyEagle]

Well, seeing as how he was a Communist-sympathizer, no, I'm not too fond of him.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/epstein9.html

[xd9fan]

not my hero(s)

[LibertyEagle]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/epstein9.html

Oh puhleese... :rolleyes:


"Marcus Epstein [send him mail] is an undergraduate at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA, where he is president of the college libertarians and editor of the conservative newspaper, The Remnant. A selection of his articles can be seen here."

The kid doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

[Fox McCloud]

glad he spread the word on equality, but I don't like his methods of instituting equality.....it would have been much better if he would have taken the Booker T. Washington way.

of course, that's two totally opposite ends of the spectrum...it's strongly speculated that Booker T. Washington was a Libertarian...and well, MLK was a socialist/communist.

So, I think some of the things he did were good...but ultimately I also believe he did more harm that good.

[asimplegirl]

Considering he was a big socialist as well according to Tom Woods' books, no.

Wow. I had no ideas about his politics. He justgot down graded to "gerat guy" level. ::sigh:: Now, the hero spot is only occupied by RE Lee, my hubby, and a couple more people.

[asimplegirl]

glad he spread the word on equality, but I don't like his methods of instituting equality.....it would have been much better if he would have taken the Booker T. Washington way.

of course, that's two totally opposite ends of the spectrum...it's strongly speculated that Booker T. Washington was a Libertarian...and well, MLK was a socialist/communist.

So, I think some of the things he did were good...but ultimately I also believe he did more harm that good.

Do you know that Booker T Washington's T in his name stands for my family name? His father was one of my ancestors..his mother was his slave.

[Fox McCloud]

Do you know that Booker T Washington's T in his name stands for my family name? His father was one of my ancestors..his mother was his slave.

very interesting!

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Wow. I had no ideas about his politics. He justgot down graded to "gerat guy" level. ::sigh:: Now, the hero spot is only occupied by RE Lee, my hubby, and a couple more people.

He was also a womanizer, a plagarist and he used his foundations money to hire prostitutes and live the life of luxury. His real name was not even Martin Luther King.

[danberkeley]

Oh puhleese... :rolleyes:


The kid doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

I'd be happy to read your refutation. :)

[asimplegirl]

He was also a womanizer, a plagarist and he used his foundations money to hire prostitutes and live the life of luxury. His real name was not even Martin Luther King.

Wow. That's good to know. I am sure my hubby probably knows this, but if he doesn't and you could link me some proof, I would seem awful smart. :)

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

That link I provided back on page 2 gives some of the info and there are some other sites out there as well I am sure.

[tremendoustie]

I am sure he was not perfect, but he is absolutely a hero in my book, for three main reasons:

1. Standing up against discrimination, and prejudiced collectivism.
2. Excellent example of civil disobedience against immoral government.
3. Bravery in the face of persecution and official opposition.

[anaconda]

Great orator.

[BlackTerrel]

Defo American hero... one of the greatest of all time!


No, not really.

He was not all that great.

check out this website:martinlutherking.org (http://martinlutherking.org)

Way to link to a Nazi website buddy

[BlackTerrel]

He was also a womanizer, a plagarist and he used his foundations money to hire prostitutes and live the life of luxury. His real name was not even Martin Luther King.

Don't believe everything you read on random white supremacist websites :D

[LibertiORDeth]

Don't believe everything you read on random white supremacist websites :D

There WAS a Lew Rockwell link posted on the last page, need I guide you towards it? If you care to look you could find a number of reliable sources questioning the accuracy of the "history" regarding Martin Luther King Jr.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

1.) I did not get my info from a white supremacist website.

2.) Just because a group does not have a philosophy that you agree with, it does not make their argument any less valid or factual.

3.) There are tons of sources out there regarding these very issues with King. Not only on the internet but also in print. Universities have reluctantly had to release results of their studies about King which show the truth about him.

4.) Perhaps the best information about King is yet to be learned. A liberal judge has ruled that sealed records pertaining to Michael King must remain sealed until 2027. What are they hiding?

5.) I think it is ridiculous that this man or his memory cannot be questioned without knee jerk cries of racism.

[asimplegirl]

Defo American hero... one of the greatest of all time!



Way to link to a Nazi website buddy


NAZI

1. A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
2. often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

adj.

Of, relating to, controlled by, or typical of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

........

[Andrew Ryan]

i am sure he was not perfect, but he is absolutely a hero in my book, for three main reasons:

1. Standing up against discrimination, and prejudiced collectivism.
2. Excellent example of civil disobedience against immoral government.
3. Bravery in the face of persecution and official opposition.
+ 100

[asimplegirl]

Wow. Even on wiki.. I have never read this. Guess that's public education for ya, huh?


King had a mutually antagonistic relationship with the FBI, especially its director, J. Edgar Hoover.[139] The FBI began tracking King and the SCLC in 1957;[40] its investigations were largely superficial until 1962, when it learned that one of King's most trusted advisers was New York City lawyer Stanley Levison. The FBI found Levison had been involved with the Communist Party USA,[140] though the FBI considered him an inactive party member.[141] Another King lieutenant, Hunter Pitts O'Dell, was also linked to the Communist Party by sworn testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC).[142] The Bureau placed wiretaps on Levison's and King's home and office phones, and bugged King's rooms in hotels as he traveled across the country.[143][144] The Bureau received authorization to proceed with wiretapping from Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy in 1963[145] and informed President John F. Kennedy, both of whom unsuccessfully tried to persuade King to dissociate himself from Levison.

One incident that caught the FBI's attention was purported recording of a sexual encounter that took place at a 1964 party King was attending at the Willard Hotel in Washington D.C.[144] The FBI presumed it was King who they heard engaged in a sexual encounter.[152] Ralph Abernathy, a close associate of King's, stated in his 1989 autobiography And the Walls Came Tumbling Down that King was a womanizer and that he frequently used the services of prostitutes.

Here's some excerpts from an article I found:

Myth #1: King wanted only equal rights, not special privileges and would have opposed affirmative action, quotas, reparations, and the other policies pursued by today’s civil rights leadership.

This is probably the most repeated myth about King. Writing on National Review Online, There Heritage Foundation’s Matthew Spalding wrote a piece entitled "Martin Luther King’s Conservative Mind," where he wrote, "An agenda that advocates quotas, counting by race and set-asides takes us away from King's vision."

The problem with this view is that King openly advocated quotas and racial set-asides. He wrote that the "Negro today is not struggling for some abstract, vague rights, but for concrete improvement in his way of life." When equal opportunity laws failed to achieve this, King looked for other ways. In his book Where Do We Go From Here, he suggested that "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis." To do this he expressed support for quotas. In a 1968 Playboy interview, he said, "If a city has a 30% Negro population, then it is logical to assume that Negroes should have at least 30% of the jobs in any particular company, and jobs in all categories rather than only in menial areas." King was more than just talk in this regard. Working through his Operation Breadbasket, King threatened boycotts of businesses that did not hire blacks in proportion to their population.
King was even an early proponent of reparations. In his 1964 book, Why We Can’t Wait, he wrote,
No amount of gold could provide an adequate compensation for the exploitation and humiliation of the Negro in America down through the centuries…Yet a price can be placed on unpaid wages. The ancient common law has always provided a remedy for the appropriation of a the labor of one human being by another. This law should be made to apply for American Negroes. The payment should be in the form of a massive program by the government of special, compensatory measures which could be regarded as a settlement in accordance with the accepted practice of common law.
Predicting that critics would note that many whites were equally disadvantaged, King claimed that his program, which he called the "Bill of Rights for the Disadvantaged" would help poor whites as well. This is because once the blacks received reparations, the poor whites would realize that their real enemy was rich whites.

Myth # 2: King was an American patriot, who tried to get Americans to live up to their founding ideals.

In National Review, Roger Clegg wrote that "There may have been a brief moment when there existed something of a national consensus – a shared vision eloquently articulated in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, with deep roots in the American Creed, distilled in our national motto, E pluribus unum. Most Americans still share it, but by no means all." Many other conservatives have embraced this idea of an American Creed that built upon Jefferson and Lincoln, and was then fulfilled by King and libertarians like Clint Bolick and neocons like Bill Bennett.

Despite his constant invocations of the Declaration of Independence, King did not have much pride in America’s founding. He believed "our nation was born in genocide," and claimed that the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were meaningless for blacks because they were written by slave owners.

Myth # 3: King was a Christian activist whose struggle for civil rights is similar to the battles fought by the Christian Right today.

Ralph Reed claims that King’s "indispensable genius" provided "the vision and leadership that renewed and made crystal clear the vital connection between religion and politics." He proudly admitted that the Christian Coalition "adopted many elements of King’s style and tactics." The pro-life group, Operation Rescue, often compared their struggle against abortion to King’s struggle against segregation. In a speech entitled The Conservative Virtues of Dr. Martin Luther King, Bill Bennet described King, as "not primarily a social activist, he was primarily a minister of the Christian faith, whose faith informed and directed his political beliefs."

Both King’s public stands and personal behavior makes the comparison between King and the Religious Right questionable.

FBI surveillance showed that King had dozens of extramarital affairs. Although many of the pertinent records are sealed, several agents who watched observed him engage in many questionable acts including buying prostitutes with SCLC money. Ralph Abernathy, who King called "the best friend I have in the world," substantiated many of these charges in his autobiography, And the Walls Came Tumbling Down. It is true that a man’s private life is mostly his business. However, most conservatives vehemently condemned Jesse Jackson when news of his illegitimate son came out, and claimed he was unfit to be a minister.

King also took stands that most in the Christian Right would disagree with. When asked about the Supreme Court’s decision to ban school prayer, King responded,

I endorse it. I think it was correct. Contrary to what many have said, it sought to outlaw neither prayer nor belief in god. In a pluralistic society such as ours, who is to determine what prayer shall be spoken and by whom? Legally, constitutionally or otherwise, the state certainly has no such right.

While King died before the Roe vs. Wade decision, and, to the best of my knowledge, made no comments on abortion, he was an ardent supporter of Planned Parenthood. He even won their Margaret Sanger Award in 1966 and had his wife give a speech entitled Family Planning – A Special and Urgent Concern which he wrote. In the speech, he did not compare the civil rights movement to the struggle of Christian Conservatives, but he did say "there is a striking kinship between our movement and Margaret Sanger's early efforts."

Myth # 4: King was an anti-communist.

In another article about Martin Luther King, Roger Clegg of National Review applauds King for speaking out against the "oppression of communism!" To gain the support of many liberal whites, in the early years, King did make a few mild denunciations of communism. He also claimed in a 1965 Playboy that there "are as many Communists in this freedom movement as there are Eskimos in Florida." This was a bald-faced lie. Though King was never a Communist and was always critical of the Soviet Union, he had knowingly surrounded himself with Communists. His closest advisor Stanley Levison was a Communist, as was his assistant Jack O’Dell. Robert and later John F. Kennedy repeatedly warned him to stop associating himself with such subversives, but he never did. He frequently spoke before Communist front groups such as the National Lawyers Guild and Lawyers for Democratic Action. King even attended seminars at The Highlander Folk School, another Communist front, which taught Communist tactics, which he later employed.

King’s sympathy for communism may have contributed to his opposition to the Vietnam War, which he characterized as a racist, imperialistic, and unjust war. King claimed that America "had committed more war crimes than any nation in the world." While he acknowledged the NLF "may not be paragons of virtue," he never criticized them. However, he was rather harsh on Diem and the South. He denied that the NLF was communist, and believed that Ho Chi Minh should have been the legitimate ruler of Vietnam. As a committed globalist, he believed that "our loyalties must transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation. This means we must develop a world perspective."

Many of King’s conservative admirers have no problem calling anyone who questions American foreign policy a "fifth columnist." While I personally agree with King on some of his stands on Vietnam, it is hypocritical for those who are still trying to get Jane Fonda tried for sedition to applaud King.

Myth # 5: King supported the free market.

OK, you don’t hear this too often, but it happens. For example, Father Robert A. Sirico delivered a paper to the Acton Institute entitled Civil Rights and Social Cooperation. In it, he wrote,

A freer economy would take us closer to the ideals of the pioneers in this country's civil rights movement. Martin Luther King, Jr. recognized this when he wrote: "With the growth of industry the folkways of white supremacy will gradually pass away," and he predicted that such growth would "Increase the purchasing power of the Negro [which in turn] will result in improved medical care, greater educational opportunities, and more adequate housing. Each of these developments will result in a further weakening of segregation."

King of course was a great opponent of the free economy. In a speech in front of his staff in 1966 he said,

You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry… Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong…with capitalism… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a Democratic Socialism.

King called for "totally restructuring the system" in a way that was not capitalist or "the antithesis of communist." For more information on King’s economic views, see Lew Rockwell’s The Economics of Martin Luther King, Jr.

Myth # 6: King was a conservative.

As all the previous myths show, King’s views were hardly conservative. If this was not enough, it is worth noting what King said about the two most prominent postwar American conservative politicians, Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater.

King accused Barry Goldwater of "Hitlerism." He believed that Goldwater advocated a "narrow nationalism, a crippling isolationism, and a trigger-happy attitude." On domestic issues he felt that "Mr. Goldwater represented an unrealistic conservatism that was totally out of touch with the realities of the twentieth century." King said that Goldwater’s positions on civil rights were "morally indefensible and socially suicidal."

King said of Reagan, "When a Hollywood performer, lacking distinction even as an actor, can become a leading war hawk candidate for the presidency, only the irrationalities induced by war psychosis can explain such a turn of events."

Despite King’s harsh criticisms of those men, both supported the King holiday. Goldwater even fought to keep King’s FBI files, which contained information about his adulterous sex life and Communist connections, sealed.

Myth # 7: King wasn’t a plagiarist.

OK, even most of the neocons won’t deny this, but it is still worth bringing up, because they all ignore it. King started plagiarizing as an undergraduate. When Boston University founded a commission to look into it, they found that that 45 percent of the first part and 21 percent of the second part of his dissertation was stolen, but they insisted that "no thought should be given to revocation of Dr. King’s doctoral degree." In addition to his dissertation many of his major speeches, such as "I Have a Dream," were plagiarized, as were many of his books and writings. For more information on King’s plagiarism, The Martin Luther King Plagiarism Page and Theodore Pappas’ Plagiarism and the Culture War are excellent resources.

When faced with these facts, most of King’s conservative and libertarian fans either say they weren’t part of his main philosophy, or usually they simply ignore them. Slightly before the King Holiday was signed into law, Governor Meldrim Thompson of New Hampshire wrote a letter to Ronald Reagan expressing concerns about King’s morality and Communist connections. Ronald Reagan responded, "I have the reservations you have, but here the perception of too many people is based on an image, not reality. Indeed, to them the perception is reality."

Far too many on the Right are worshipping that perception. Rather than face the truth about King’s views, they create a man based upon a few lines about judging men "by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin" – something we are not supposed to do in his case, of course – while ignoring everything else he said and did. If King is truly an admirable figure, they are doing his legacy a disservice by using his name to promote an agenda he clearly would not have supported.

[Crash Martinez]

Not a fan.

Malcolm X, from what I understand, promoted a far less Statist approach to the problem than did Michael King. He did not believe in handouts or other forms of socialism to accomplish liberty and equality under the law. Thus, despite being a Muslim - and therefore someone I disagree with in religious terms - Malcolm X had a much more respectable social agenda than did King, in my opinion.

Also (speaking of religion)... regardless of what he may or may not have "accomplished" (usually measured in terms of coercive laws passed), I have little respect for any supposedly Christian "Reverend" whose scholarship in seminary consisted of denying the truths of the Bible (i.e. the virgin birth of Christ, His resurrection, etc). If he didn't believe the Bible, fine; that's his problem. But, that being the case, masking himself as some sort of minister of the Gospel is in my opinion despicable and unacceptable.

[Cinderella]

assata shakur, malcolm x, huey p, george jackson are higher on my list than martin luther king

[danberkeley]

assata shakur, malcolm x, huey p, george jackson are higher on my list than martin luther king

Didn't the Black Panthers blame black people's problems on the white man, not the government?

[Nirvikalpa]

Well, seeing as how he was a Communist-sympathizer, no, I'm not too fond of him.

+1.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I am happy to see "no" is in the lead on this poll

[heavenlyboy34]

interesting points y'all brought up. Nice thread, OP! :D Thanks for distracting us from the silly religious stuff. :) ~hug~

[gaazn]

I'd trade MLK Day for Jackie Robinson Day.

[Deborah K]

He was a flawed man. But he was a great leader in many ways.

[Crash Martinez]

He was a flawed man. But he was a great leader in many ways.

Such as?

[Deborah K]

Such as?

Which comment are you questioning? The flawed man? Or the great leader in many ways?

[Crash Martinez]

Which comment are you questioning? The flawed man? Or the great leader in many ways?

Oh, sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the ways in which he was a great leader. I mean, I like his boycott idea, so I guess that's one way.

Was there anything else he promoted that wasn't some form of Socialism? Because if not, then I can hardly consider him a "great leader."

[danberkeley]

He was a flawed man. But he was a great leader in many ways.

Just like Obama. :p

[Deborah K]

Oh, sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the ways in which he was a great leader. I mean, I like his boycott idea, so I guess that's one way.

Was there anything else he promoted that wasn't some form of Socialism? Because if not, then I can hardly consider him a "great leader."

Here's a look at some of his famous quotes: http://www.mlkonline.net/quotes.html

For me, he was clearly an inspirational speaker who propelled the civil rights movement into the forefront, and his tactics were peaceful. I think anyone who can accomplish a great task by inspiring people to act in a peaceful way, and get results, deserves to be called a great leader.

I especially like this quote:

Even when pressed by inner demands of the truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. And I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.....my own government.

And I like this letter from the Birmingham jail: http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

I know he was socialistic in his thinking, and I know about the philandering. I think you can be a great leader and a flawed person at the same time.

[SnappleLlama]

Well, he gives me a day off work every January, so I guess he's not all that bad.

[Deborah K]

Just like Obama. :p

That has yet to be proven.

[lucius]

Just like Obama. :rolleyes:

I fixed it for you...just another variant of a long-line of high-functioning criminal psychopathic show sock-puppets, who not unlike turds, seem to float to the top.

[danberkeley]

I fixed it for you...just another variant of a long-line of high-functioning criminal psychopathic show sock-puppets, who not unlike turds, seem to float to the top.

Why are you misquoting me?

[lucius]

Why are you misquoting me?

my mistake...

[Peace&Freedom]

MLK was good on speaking with inspiring delivery, and on the Vietnam war (antiwar). The early boycotts he helped organized were against state-imposed segregation, and as such were originally opposed to the use state force to perpetuate racism. Because of his socialism he and the civil rights leaders of the time did not maintain this anti-state stance once the federal laws began to roll in the other direction, and imposed integration and quotas on the nation.

In all, he is an historic figure in moving the country past the absurd era of seperated water fountians, and as a representative of that era merits the holiday (admittedly it would be better to call it something other than his name). His biographical flaws (womanizing, plagarism, communist buddies) put him in the same boat as your average flawed Founding Father (who were often slaveowners, violators of Indian rights, or inconsistent in following the Constitution). If we balance their merits/demerits yet honor the founders, we can do the same for the King.

[Freedom 4 all]

You can oppose Obama without being a racist but I can't see someone other than a white supremacist could see MLK as anything short of a hero.

[satchelmcqueen]

no

[gls]

You can oppose Obama without being a racist but I can't see someone other than a white supremacist could see MLK as anything short of a hero.

Why do you post on a forum where in your view the majority of users are white supremacists?

[mmink15]

He was a hero for Ron Paul, it's surprising to me that so many here on the forums have a distaste for MLK.

[Dieseler]

..

[orafi]

He was a hero for Ron Paul, it's surprising to me that so many here on the forums have a distaste for MLK.

His words were great, but his character wasn't so.

edit:

and by 'his', I meant quote his unquote. ;)

[Mini-Me]

You can oppose Obama without being a racist but I can't see someone other than a white supremacist could see MLK as anything short of a hero.

Frankly, I think the poll needs more than two options. I imagine people's feelings are more nuanced than "yes" or "no." I'm voting yes, but I can see why others might not. Honestly, I have some mixed feelings towards MLK...or rather, I have mixed feelings about the way people view - and must view - MLK. His powerful speeches about equality and justice are moving, and combined with his strong presence and influence, his commitment to nonviolence and civil disobedience probably saved this country a whole lot of grief. Could you imagine what might have happened if someone more militant and inflammatory became the predominant lightning rod for the movement, rather than MLK?* On the whole, I think that makes him a hero...but he was a flawed hero, and it bothers me that history books, the media, and popular culture all cover up his faults and worship him like some kind of perfect saint. It bothers me that people are not even allowed to deviate from that worship without being called racist. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a hero...but he was also a plagiarist, and he also betrayed his wife with extramarital affairs. He also had socialist tendencies (although he at least recognized the injustice of Communism's totalitarianism), and that's another flaw in my book. None of these flaws are anywhere near deal-breakers for me, because of all the good he did...but the problem is that you're not even "allowed" to bring them up or criticize him for them, because some people feel that the actual man cannot stand on his own and must be replaced by a perfect idol. This gives rise to a mindless false dichotomy between, "either you worship him or you're a racist." The groupthink and conformity is so prevalent that every single person must fear judgment if they do not walk on eggshells and dishonestly speak only of a perfect caricature of a man. Well, you know what? Fuck that.

*Some might say that he wasn't as nonviolent as we make him out to be...I remember someone criticized me on these forums a year ago about assuming he was, and that poster claimed otherwise. Even if that poster was right though, MLK at the very least paid far more lip service to nonviolence than probably anyone else we could have hoped for. By using nonviolent rhetoric in his speeches, I think he saved a lot of lives and kept the movement from backfiring.

[Antonius Stone]

Gandhi had some socialistic views, and that is a large part of why India was a socialist country for a long time.

do you guys hate Gandhi too?

[Andrew-Austin]

Never really considered him one of my heroes alongside folk like Ron Paul, that is not to say he wasn't a hero though.

I feel comfortable saying MLK was a hero, despite the rumors about "Michael King" which I'm not inclined to take seriously.

[gls]

Gandhi had some socialistic views, and that is a large part of why India was a socialist country for a long time.

do you guys hate Gandhi too?

LOL... so not believing someone to be a "hero" is considered "hating" them now?

[AutoDas]

Gandhi had some socialistic views, and that is a large part of why India was a socialist country for a long time.

do you guys hate Gandhi too?

The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. Even Gandhi knew that.

[Imperial]

I think MLK is a hero. I can respect people who lean communist or socialist(heck, I was almost a communist a couple of years back), if they are legitimately studying the concepts.

The key is certain understanding about the rights of man.

[BlackTerrel]

5.) I think it is ridiculous that this man or his memory cannot be questioned without knee jerk cries of racism.


NAZI

1. A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
2. often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

adj.

Of, relating to, controlled by, or typical of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

The poster "youropinioncounts" linked to martinlutherking.org which is run by stormfront.org a notorious white supremacist website whose entire existence is based on their theory that whites are inferior apes and that we only exist in society because jewish brainwashing in media and film has convinced white America that we are normal human beings. Yes that's Nazi and yes that's racist - you should be more concerned with that poster and website than the exact definition of a Nazi.

I'm actually a bit disturbed that I'm the only one that called him out on that.

[BlackTerrel]

The problem with this view is that King openly advocated quotas and racial set-asides. He wrote that the "Negro today is not struggling for some abstract, vague rights, but for concrete improvement in his way of life." When equal opportunity laws failed to achieve this, King looked for other ways. In his book Where Do We Go From Here, he suggested that "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis." To do this he expressed support for quotas.

At a time when blacks did not have basic rights does that make him a bad person or one who is fighting for equality?

[BlackTerrel]

I am happy to see "no" is in the lead on this poll

Funny that yes was significantly in the lead to start. Usually polls don't shift much once you have 30-40 votes as long as the original sample was the same as the rest. Makes you wonder if certain people are linking and targeting this thread. Just an idea....

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Funny that yes was significantly in the lead to start. Usually polls don't shift much once you have 30-40 votes as long as the original sample was the same as the rest. Makes you wonder if certain people are linking and targeting this thread. Just an idea....

Yep we are ron paul spammers who specialize in dragging people to threads on ron paul websites to spam polls about black leaders from the 60's in an effort to make the white man appear glorious. I cannot believe you figured out this conspiracy, you and Hannity are beyond our ability to handle!

[Uriel999]

I voted yes, sure he had a lot to be desired, but look at his actual impact. Fairly positive overall would ya'll not say?

[AutoDas]

At a time when blacks did not have basic rights does that make him a bad person or one who is fighting for equality?

Would you prefer to get shipped back to Africa?

[ChaosControl]

I respect him, but I wouldn't call him a hero. I reserve that title for very few individuals.

[BlackTerrel]

Would you prefer to get shipped back to Africa?

This is a stupid question. Seriously, this is what you're asking me?

I'd say more but I like to be civil in internet forums.

[AutoDas]

This is a stupid question. Seriously, this is what you're asking me?

I'd say more but I like to be civil in internet forums.

That's the only thing I think African-Americans are entitled to.

[DeadheadForPaul]

There WAS a Lew Rockwell link posted on the last page, need I guide you towards it? If you care to look you could find a number of reliable sources questioning the accuracy of the "history" regarding Martin Luther King Jr.

Lew Rockwell has used racism to further his own political agenda - don't trust a word that the man says with regard to MLK...or anything

[DeadheadForPaul]

He was a hero for Ron Paul, it's surprising to me that so many here on the forums have a distaste for MLK.

This movement has attracted the more disgusting element of the Right: Neo-Confeds, separatists, etc.

[danberkeley]

Lew Rockwell has used racism to further his own political agenda - don't trust a word that the man says with regard to MLK...or anything

Proof?

[Crash Martinez]

Lew Rockwell has used racism to further his own political agenda - don't trust a word that the man says with regard to MLK...or anything
I second the appeal for proof on this. Wait, is your name James Kirchick?


This movement has attracted the more disgusting element of the Right: Neo-Confeds, separatists, etc.
What's so disgusting about being a separatist????????????

[coyote_sprit]

Lew Rockwell has used racism to further his own political agenda - don't trust a word that the man says with regard to MLK...or anything

So I guess I shouldn't trust all the right things Lew Rockwell has been saying for a very long time?

[DeadheadForPaul]

Proof?

http://www.reason.com/news/show/124426.html

As for the person who questioned why I find separatism to be disgusting: Are you serious? The motives behind it are deplorable. Do people have a right to voluntarily abandon mainstream society? Yes. I also think people should have the right to free speech. Just because I support their right to say dumb things does not mean that I have to tolerate or accept their views. I feel the same way about the former group as well - unbelievable that i have to explain that

[DeadheadForPaul]

So I guess I shouldn't trust all the right things Lew Rockwell has been saying for a very long time?

Pretty much. His involvement is detrimental to the liberty movement

[danberkeley]

Pretty much. His involvement is detrimental to the liberty movement

How so? Besides the newsletters he allegedly wrote.


http://www.reason.com/news/show/124426.html


That's such a hit piece.

[Crash Martinez]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/124426.html

As for the person who questioned why I find separatism to be disgusting: Are you serious? The motives behind it are deplorable. Do people have a right to voluntarily abandon mainstream society? Yes. I also think people should have the right to free speech. Just because I support their right to say dumb things does not mean that I have to tolerate or accept their views. I feel the same way about the former group as well - unbelievable that i have to explain that

Well... I think I was a little off, even though I disagree with you on this as well. I was thinking of secessionism, on which this once-great nation was founded.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

This movement has attracted the more disgusting element of the Right: Neo-Confeds, separatists, etc.

So do you believe secession is wrong?

[The_Orlonater]

Pretty much. His involvement is detrimental to the liberty movement

Please what a freaking joke, I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of the "libertarian" Reason magazine.

That man has done more for liberty than you have, he posts some good articles actually. Why don't you pinpoint an article that he wrote with his name as the author that you don't like?

[danberkeley]

Please what a freaking joke, I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of the "libertarian" Reason magazine.

That man has done more for liberty than you have, he posts soe good articles actually. Why don't you pinpoint an article that he wrote with his name as the author that you don't like.

I second that.

[heavenlyboy34]

I second that.

I third that.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I will fourth it

[krazy kaju]

He sure is a hero in my book.

No commie is a hero in my book.


Civil disobedience to free his people?

He owned black people? I thought we got rid of slavery a long time before he came around...


It's just amazing that he wound up being in a position to make such a positive difference for our country.

Like racial quotas and overseeing a huge expansion in welfare that destroyed black families.


We sure haven't seen many great leaders since then.

If you're going to nutride MLK, you might as well get on the happy-go-lucky "civil rights" bandwagon and nutride someone like Malcolm X.

[Conservative Christian]

http://blogs.citypages.com/pscholtes/images/Martin%20Luther%20King%20at%20Communist%20Training %20School.jpg

The black male with glasses at the bottom left is Abner Berry, who at the time of the photo was an officer of the Communist Party USA, and an official correspondent for the CPUSA publication, The Daily Worker.

The man sitting on King's immediate right is Aubrey Williams, identified in sworn testimony as a Communist Party member, by fellow CP members.

The man on Aubrey Williams' right is Myles Horton, a notorious communist "fellow traveler" of that era.


.

[heavenlyboy34]

Pretty much. His involvement is detrimental to the liberty movement

RP disagrees. :eek:;)

[LibertyEagle]

UNCELEBRATE KING 2009
by Alan Stang

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan183.htm

[blocks]

I am sure he was not perfect, but he is absolutely a hero in my book, for three main reasons:

1. Standing up against discrimination, and prejudiced collectivism.
2. Excellent example of civil disobedience against immoral government.
3. Bravery in the face of persecution and official opposition.

+1776...best post in this thread. Sure, deep down MLK was a socialist, I don't dispute that, but the monumental moves he made without relying on government intervention were incredible for the times that he lived in. And he deserves recognition for them.

[LibertyEagle]

You seriously should read this.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan183.htm

[Natalie]

No, not really.

He was not all that great.

check out this website:martinlutherking.org (http://martinlutherking.org)



.

At the bottom of the martinlutherking.org page, it says "Hosted by Stormfront," and the link brings you to the stormfront message boards :rolleyes:

[mkeller]

You seriously should read this.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan183.htm

Amazing. I'd heard vague things about his death being an inside job before, but never knew all of this!

[hadenough]

He sure is a hero in my book. Civil disobedience to free his people? It's just amazing that he wound up being in a position to make such a positive difference for our country. We sure haven't seen many great leaders since then.

His methods may be similar to what we have to do to stop the tyranny of a world government imo.


That's exactly what I was thinking. We need someone like MLK to lead the way to freedom. He made such a large impact.

[LibertyEagle]

That's exactly what I was thinking. We need someone like MLK to lead the way to freedom. He made such a large impact.

Well, since MLK was a frickin' COMMUNIST, I say no thanks.

You guys are falling for revisionist BS about MLK. He was not the hero you seem to think he was.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Well, since MLK was a frickin' COMMUNIST, I say no thanks.

You guys are falling for revisionist BS about MLK. He was not the hero you seem to think he was.

QFT

This guy was a total communist who was hell bent on destroying the foundation of our country. He was not some grand hero who is worthy of having his own day of recognition. What is scariest is that I was at my neighbors the other night watching the history channel special about the president. Their son who is in first grade sat and watched and had no idea who Washington, Jefferson, etc were. Yet a commercial came on that showed a split second image of King and he said "hey look, it's Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." This guy is a tool for the powers that be and many of you are buying it hook, line and sinker.

[BlackTerrel]

What's so disgusting about being a separatist????????????

Before I respond to this, can you define what a seperatist is?

[James Madison]

I don't believe in having heroes. So, my answer is no.

[Suzu]

I never got to read much about him. Do you mind elaborating on why you like him? :confused:

Read The Autobiography of Malcolm X (http://www.amazon.com/Autobiography-Malcolm-X/dp/0140028242/) or see if you're short of time see the film about him (http://www.amazon.com/Malcolm-X-Angela-Bassett/dp/B00002ND77). Both are excellent.