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Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-17-2009, 11:50 AM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.

heavenlyboy34
01-17-2009, 11:53 AM
Why so hung up on religion? Do you need a hobby?

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 11:57 AM
All religions are a product of faith. There is no wrong, just as there is no right.

M House
01-17-2009, 12:05 PM
All religions are a product of faith. There is no wrong, just as there is no right.

No faith, no problem.

Andrew Ryan
01-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Islam is the light.

cheapseats
01-17-2009, 12:13 PM
All religions are a product of faith.

They all REQUIRE Faith. It must be owned that a certain amount of religiosity is a product of Greed and Control Issues -- and Fear, acourse.



There is no wrong, just as there is no right.

Begging your pardon, there are some religious extremists in the Middle East whose dogma DOES entail my annihilation and I am NOT talking about being Israeli. In their eyes I am an Infidel. I can convert or die. Conversion the other way around is punishable by death.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, no doubt in my mind. Oh, they may kill me . . . but they'll still be Wrong.

yongrel
01-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Baha'i, clearly.

Spider-Man
01-17-2009, 12:14 PM
All of the ones that are not Scientology.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Islam is the light.

http://www.seafox.com/islam.html

" Islam claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance. It is, in fact, characterized by instability and religious bigotry. It is our duty to stand for the Gospel and against all other gospels. Islam has rejected the essential teachings of the Word of God. The "prophet" Muhammad brought a message from a false spirit that totally opposes the Gospel of grace. The message of Islam is a curse, not a blessing.

Islam is being presented as a practical, modern religion though it holds its adherents in spiritual bondage. Christians must be diligent to witness to-not dialogue with Muslims. This is God's way of presenting the glorious light of the Gospel. There is only one true religion. It was prophesied in the Garden of Eden, typified in the days of Noah, confirmed to Abraham and Isaac, and realized in Jesus Christ.

While "Christians" are manifesting their "open mindedness," Muslims are spreading their false religious propaganda under the cover of dialogue. Muslims believe that all mankind must be brought into subjection to the spurious teachings of the Qur'an in order to experience peace and blessing. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims believe that the doctrine of the Incarnation of God is blasphemy. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the prophet who fully revealed the final truth. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims are "devoted to their ideals,... and uncompromising with falsehood" ("Moral System of Islam"). Only the glorious, liberating light of the one true Gospel will be able to break through such darkness".

Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Ill start

False Religion #1

Bambuti

Bambuti is the mythology of the Mbuti pygmies of the Congo. The chief god is Khonvoum. The religion is polytheistic. Khonvoum made man out of clay. Black people were made of black clay, and white people made of white clay. The Mbuti people stole fire from the god Tore. They also have a god that eats children. The rain forest plays a central role in their religious beliefs.

With deforestation, and a lot of the Mbuti people leaving the traditional forest life for modern villages, its safe to say that their gods are not doing their part to protect the sacred forest. In the age of deforestation, rain forest based religions are just about done.

cheapseats
01-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.

Per my Father, with whom argument was not allowed.

"What do you want to DO with your life? People aren't born knowing what to DO with their lives. Pay attention. Figure out what you DON'T want to do - whittle down the options."

jlaker
01-17-2009, 12:29 PM
I think all religion is bad.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 12:46 PM
All religions are a product of faith. There is no wrong, just as there is no right.

With all due respect, this statement is downright dangerous! For all of you that have never read the word of God, or were raised in an atheist home, or those who hate religion through ignorance, slowly walk away from your attempts here to further drag those who are young and impressionable into the pit.

For those who are seeking God, be very careful who you listen to and that includes me. Study the true word of God and I promise you, you will be stunned as the God of glory proves himself to you.



"God is perfect. Men and women are imperfect. As a result mankind can only create imperfect religions. That means that all man-created religions are imperfect and have common characteristics. This makes the one religion created by God unique, because it has characteristics only God could give it.

Christianity, because it was created by God, is a unique religion - with aspects central to Christianity that are different from all other religions.

For example:

The one true religion In Christianity salvation is a free gift given to us by God. In all other religions you achieve salvation through your works or good thoughts.

The one true religion In no other religion does the leader of that religion die so that his followers may be saved, and then return after death--demonstrating the eternal life we all can have.

The one true religion Christianity is the only religion in which love, including love for your enemies, is the central theme.

The one true religion Only Christianity offers absolute assurance of heaven and eternal life.

The one true religion In no other religion do we find God personally suffering with the people.

The one true religion You can be born Jewish; born Buddhist; born as a Hindu -- but it not possible to be born a Christian. Being born into a Christian family does not make you a Christiann. "



Please do not post that the inquisitions are proof of the killing lust in Christians. I am sorry to have to report this, but Catholics are not Christian, according to the Bible, the real Bible, not the Catholic Bible which is a rewrite of the the real Bible and a cursed thing.

Catholics, and there are many precious catholics who have been led down the wrong path, worship idols unknowingly and are forbidden to read the real word of God. A long subject and a hard one to have to broach, but I cannot let a thread go on and on about the true religion being this long list of incredibly stupid man made GODHOAX'S.

Speaking of GODHOAX, 99% of all Christian religions in the good old USI (United States of Israel ) are false religions according to the real Bible. Satan has done a bang up job of infiltrating and confusing the word of GOD for obvious reason, don't fall for it, FOR WE ARE NEAR THE END and the demonic presence of the anti-christ is very strong.

The Torah Jews are on the right track, but they have been divorced from GOD after they rejected the messiah. Do not confuse Torah Jew with the money changers, or the false Jew that have their hands around your neck in this country, they are demonic and the Talmudic, Kabbalah group actually worship Satan.

WARNING GRAPHIC!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5W0mfaPd8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Kabbalah/kaballah_satanic.htm

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 12:47 PM
They all REQUIRE Faith. It must be owned that a certain amount of religiosity is a product of Greed and Control Issues -- and Fear, acourse.




Begging your pardon, there are some religious extremists in the Middle East whose dogma DOES entail my annihilation and I am NOT talking about being Israeli. In their eyes I am an Infidel. I can convert or die. Conversion the other way around is punishable by death.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, no doubt in my mind. Oh, they may kill me . . . but they'll still be Wrong.

No, it depends on what you have faith in to figure out which is right for you.

Whether you agree with a religion or not, no matter how wrong it may seem, it cannot be wrong, as it may be right for those who follow it, as it is what they have faith in. Correct?

angelatc
01-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Yours.

Omphfullas Zamboni
01-17-2009, 12:48 PM
...

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 12:55 PM
With all due respect, this statement is downright dangerous! For all of you that have never read the word of God, or were raised in an atheist home, or those who hate religion through ignorance, slowly walk away from your attempts here to further drag those who are young and impressionable into the pit.

I was not raised atheist, and I am Christian..a Catholic, the ones you claim are not real Christians..


Whether we agree with a religion or not, as I have said, that does not make it wrong, just wrong to us.

We will never know which is correct except by assumption until we die. We may find that God does not even exist.

Fear does not work for me, and you should know, if you consider yourself to be witnessing that this is generally a turn off for many that are not part of your religion.

Also, know that if you are reading a bible in english, you are not reading the bible as it was written, and has been translated through languages, over and over agian, to finally be in english.

I have studied many religions, as well as many languages, and have done a little translating, and I can tell you..alot of religions have it wrong in my opinion.

As far as I am concerned, I AM Christian, as I am a believer of Christ, and my God tells me that it is not YOUR place to judge whether I am his or not.

BTW, Kabbalah does not worship Satan.



Christianity:
A believer in Christianity; An individual who seeks to live his or her life according to the principles and values taught by Jesus Christ

Oh, just so you know, I was not raised Catholic, I was raised protestant. I have read the entire bible many times, and was a state champion bible quizzer.

You, though, appear to trust that your way is the only true way, which is a judgment, one of the many things God warned us of doing as Christians.

Uriel999
01-17-2009, 01:21 PM
With all due respect, this statement is downright dangerous! For all of you that have never read the word of God, or were raised in an atheist home, or those who hate religion through ignorance, slowly walk away from your attempts here to further drag those who are young and impressionable into the pit.

For those who are seeking God, be very careful who you listen to and that includes me. Study the true word of God and I promise you, you will be stunned as the God of glory proves himself to you.



"God is perfect. Men and women are imperfect. As a result mankind can only create imperfect religions. That means that all man-created religions are imperfect and have common characteristics. This makes the one religion created by God unique, because it has characteristics only God could give it.

Christianity, because it was created by God, is a unique religion - with aspects central to Christianity that are different from all other religions.

For example:

The one true religion In Christianity salvation is a free gift given to us by God. In all other religions you achieve salvation through your works or good thoughts.

The one true religion In no other religion does the leader of that religion die so that his followers may be saved, and then return after death--demonstrating the eternal life we all can have.

The one true religion Christianity is the only religion in which love, including love for your enemies, is the central theme.

The one true religion Only Christianity offers absolute assurance of heaven and eternal life.

The one true religion In no other religion do we find God personally suffering with the people.

The one true religion You can be born Jewish; born Buddhist; born as a Hindu -- but it not possible to be born a Christian. Being born into a Christian family does not make you a Christiann. "



Please do not post that the inquisitions are proof of the killing lust in Christians. I am sorry to have to report this, but Catholics are not Christian, according to the Bible, the real Bible, not the Catholic Bible which is a rewrite of the the real Bible and a cursed thing.

Catholics, and there are many precious catholics who have been led down the wrong path, worship idols unknowingly and are forbidden to read the real word of God. A long subject and a hard one to have to broach, but I cannot let a thread go on and on about the true religion being this long list of incredibly stupid man made GODHOAX'S.

Speaking of GODHOAX, 99% of all Christian religions in the good old USI (United States of Israel ) are false religions according to the real Bible. Satan has done a bang up job of infiltrating and confusing the word of GOD for obvious reason, don't fall for it, FOR WE ARE NEAR THE END and the demonic presence of the anti-christ is very strong.

The Torah Jews are on the right track, but they have been divorced from GOD after they rejected the messiah. Do not confuse Torah Jew with the money changers, or the false Jew that have their hands around your neck in this country, they are demonic and the Talmudic, Kabbalah group actually worship Satan.

WARNING GRAPHIC!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5W0mfaPd8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Kabbalah/kaballah_satanic.htm

If you ever feel like actually thinking for yourself read this: http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-4th-Foundations/dp/0136626289

M House
01-17-2009, 01:31 PM
If you ever feel like actually thinking for yourself read this: http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-4th-Foundations/dp/0136626289

I think you might have to first explain that witches aren't the only people who sink in water.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Or that birthmarks are not marks of the devil.

lucius
01-17-2009, 02:21 PM
Spookiest/most-disturbing that I have come across is the babylonian talmud--hands down.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 03:09 PM
I was not raised atheist, and I am Christian..a Catholic, the ones you claim are not real Christians..


Whether we agree with a religion or not, as I have said, that does not make it wrong, just wrong to us.

We will never know which is correct except by assumption until we die. We may find that God does not even exist.

Fear does not work for me, and you should know, if you consider yourself to be witnessing that this is generally a turn off for many that are not part of your religion.

Also, know that if you are reading a bible in english, you are not reading the bible as it was written, and has been translated through languages, over and over again, to finally be in english.

I have studied many religions, as well as many languages, and have done a little translating, and I can tell you..alot of religions have it wrong in my opinion.

As far as I am concerned, I AM Christian, as I am a believer of Christ, and my God tells me that it is not YOUR place to judge whether I am his or not.

BTW, Kabbalah does not worship Satan.


Oh, just so you know, I was not raised Catholic, I was raised protestant. I have read the entire bible many times, and was a state champion bible quizzer.

You, though, appear to trust that your way is the only true way, which is a judgment, one of the many things God warned us of doing as Christians.

First off, you call yourself a Christian and yet everything you have posted puts GOD himself in question. You do not truly appear to believe. Secondly, you call yourself a self appointed Bible expert. Which Bible are you reading? Do more study, there is one Bible, the first one ever printed in english called the King James Bible, not the second printing or the third printing, but the first printing.

http://rapturealert.blogspot.com/2008/09/gods-curse.html

" John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. "

" For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book,” Revelation 22:18, 19."


" I spoke about the cults earlier. Huge deceptions are being laid as a new foundation. We see a new era emerging on the scene called “post-modernism” which doesn’t allow for the truths as taught in the Bible. Truths that some of us still hold to today. Now we are told that we must learn new truths and re-design Christianity to conform to our ever growing and changing culture. We must make major changes in God’s word to pacify this new breed of post-modern Christians. “…that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written…,” 1 Corinthians 4:6 "


This is as close as any one will ever get to the true word of GOD. Study how it was translated and from where and then come back and tell me all Bibles are corrupt. The fact that you believe that all Bibles are corrupt tells me you do not believe that God is omnipotent or in control or even capable of providing the people of the world with his true word. Therefore your argument is simple. You are not sure there is a GOD, you know for a fact that his word has been corrupted but you do like to throw around certain verses in order to fortify your GODLESS arguments.

Secondly, you could not have read my post, KABBALAH is devil worship PERIOD!

Thirdly, you are to show your fellow Christian the error of your ways and brother, you have many error's. For a so called Bible expert to go from a purported protestant religion to the Catholic religion is an absolute huge jump in the wrong direction.

http://www.capalert.com/judgenot.htm

" Matt 7:1 seems to support the ellusion that we are not to judge at all if we use small-vision tactics by focusing on only that small piece of the total of what Jesus was saying.

Look at John 7:24. There, Jesus tells us to judge, but to do so righteously. Righteously means to use the Truth of the Word to discern sins and not by appearances only. In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes us to judge. Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one's behavior we must we try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.

And to continue, Matt 7:6 says. "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs (the KJV says "swine"). If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." How are we going to know as undesirable the behaviors of "dogs" and "swine" if we do not judge?

Yes, we do have the right and the authority to judge the behavior of others as long as we honor and obey His Word doing it. That Jesus is the only one who can judge is speaking to judging whether someone is or is not saved. Neither you nor I nor anyone else who ever draws a breath (except Jesus) has the authority to say whether another has or has not been saved. Only Jesus can make that judgment since only He can give Salvation. Nor may we who discern poor behavioral based on His Word think of ourselves as "better than" the one whose behavior we judge as poor.
"

Again, there is it strait form the horses mouth:

Exodus 20:4-5 says, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Notice that in this verse God is talking about being jealous if someone gives something that belongs to Him to another.

In these verses, God is speaking of people making idols and bowing down and worshiping those idols instead of giving God the worship that belongs to Him alone. God is possessive of the worship and service that belong to Him.

http://www.tbm.org/whydobiblesdiffer.htm

" The Lord's words should define for all Christians which books are considered the infallible Word of God. The Catholic Church by accepting the Pseudepigraphal books take odds against Jesus own words which excludes their books. So who do you believe, Jesus or the Catholic Church? "


The virgin Mary is not a GOD, she is a carved image!

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 03:28 PM
Firstly, I have only been a bible QUIZZER, not expert for the KJV. I have never read the entire version of any other bible.

Secondly, I NEVER said that bibles were corrupt. I said that they go through so many translations to be english, they lose their meaning. And it is true.

You say translate, I already said I have.

You said study, I do.

I have never doubted the existence of God, ever. I can see how some may think it is made up, though. This just means that I am an understanding person, a quality you should learn considering that you are striving to be like Christ.

How can you say I have jumped to a wrong religion? Religion is a personal choice.


Yes, we do have the right and the authority to judge the behavior of others as long as we honor and obey His Word doing it.

Picking and choosing verses?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Also, as far as religions go, I believe that this verse sums it up well.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

The difference in religions are small doors. NO one will ever believe the same exact thing. Anyone who believes it possible is a fool by his own right. There is always someone who needs a different belief system, as to not be left with nothing to believe in.

Remember, straight from the horse's mouth:

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

dirknb@hotmail.com
01-17-2009, 03:40 PM
Church of Euthanasia. Their slogan is Save the Planet, Kill Yourself

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/

Bruno
01-17-2009, 03:42 PM
Is there a right one?

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 03:49 PM
To Fed up:

These verses show us that as long as we have faith, we are following what is right:


But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11: 6

This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3: 2

For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. Galatians 3: 26

For we walk by faith, not by sight.
2 Corinthians 5: 7


These teach us to accept those that do not believe as we do:


For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
—1 Samuel 16:7

The Lord's curse is on the house of the wicked,
but he blesses the dwelling of the righteous.
Toward the scorners he is scornful,
but to the humble he gives favor.
The wise will inherit honor,
but fools get disgrace.
—Proverbs 3:33-35

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
—John 6:37

Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.
—Romans 15:7

For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



I hope that you can learn love, peace, acceptance, and faith.

These things make a good person, no matter the religion. And that's all that really matter while on Earth, isn't it? Being a good person? We don't need rules and laws to tell us that, or how to do that.

Don't do something you feel bad about. Follow your heart and all that stuff?

That's all religion is. Choose the one that fits you, and try not to make it fit everyone else.


Zarathushtra, the Prophet of ancient Iran, says in his Gathas, the divine songs of reverence to Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord:

O Mazda, from the beginning you created soul and body. You granted man the mental power and knowledge. You placed life in the physical body and gave mankind the power to act, speak and guide. You wished that everyone should choose his or her own faith and path freely.
(Yasna 31, verse 11, translated from the Avestan language).

Also, nobody should be made to feel pride (in the Pharicees/Sadducees sense) or shame (in the eyes of potential converts) in the church they choose to attend; rather, they should find a hopeful comfort and a sense of exemplary community that transcends guilt/advertising and becomes something that just feels right.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 03:56 PM
Is there a right one?

Find whatever you have faith in, that's all your religion will be anyway.


A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


You can have faith in yourself, faith in a God, or Gods, faith in the Earth, Faith in man.... anything done religiously is religion.

And, as long as it fits you, it is right. What anyone else thinks does not matter. :)

what really matters is not what name you give to your belief, but what you do with that belief.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 04:07 PM
Firstly, I have only been a bible QUIZZER, not expert for the KJV. I have never read the entire version of any other bible.

Secondly, I NEVER said that bibles were corrupt. I said that they go through so many translations to be english, they lose their meaning. And it is true.

You say translate, I already said I have.

You said study, I do.

I have never doubted the existence of God, ever. I can see how some may think it is made up, though. This just means that I am an understanding person, a quality you should learn considering that you are striving to be like Christ.

How can you say I have jumped to a wrong religion? Religion is a personal choice.


Picking?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Also, as far as religions go, I believe that this verse sums it up well.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

The difference in religions are small doors. NO one will ever believe the same exact thing. Anyone who believes it possible is a fool by his own right. There is always someone who needs a different belief system, as to not be left with nothing to believe in.

Remember, straight from the horse's mouth:

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

HUH!! So this verse, )"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. ) means that some may read it and choose the Muslim religion while others may ask and knock and get another revelation!


You said: (Secondly, I NEVER said that bibles were corrupt. I said that they go through so many translations to be english, they lose their meaning. And it is true.)

corrupt:
3. made inferior by errors or alterations, as a text.
4. infected; tainted.

You said: ( We will never know which is correct except by assumption until we die. We may find that God does not even exist. ) So this is belief in GOD?


You said: ( This just means that I am an understanding person, a quality you should learn considering that you are striving to be like Christ.
) This means you are a new age new judeo PC correct Christian. I have no use for you and neither will GOD!

You said: ( How can you say I have jumped to a wrong religion? Religion is a personal choice. ) You arent chosing a swimsuit my dear. The word cautions you " to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Do you not fear a mighty GOD?

You said: ( NO one will ever believe the same exact thing. Anyone who believes it possible is a fool by his own right. ) Then you must believe GOD is a fool. Ephesians 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. [14] For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Whether you know it or not you are currently on the "BROAD" way.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 04:30 PM
corrupt:
3. made inferior by errors or alterations, as a text.
4. infected; tainted.

Exactly, I never said there were errors. Ever.

I said, WE have lost their meaning. Because people translated the bible. People who had thoughts about things themselves. And, we read them not knowing terminology and translation from other languages ourselves.



You said: ( We will never know which is correct except by assumption until we die. We may find that God does not even exist. ) So this is belief in GOD?

Yes, I have so much faith in my God, that questioning his existence only strengthens my belief in him. Are your beliefs so faulty you will not question them, in fear they are not correct?


You said: ( This just means that I am an understanding person, a quality you should learn considering that you are striving to be like Christ.
) This means you are a new age new judeo PC correct Christian. I have no use for you and neither will GOD!

No, this means I try to have the fruits of the spirit. I am not PC. I cuss like a sailor sometimes, I am more than slightly offensive, and I HATE when people are PC. I am not new aged at all..since when is understanding new aged? Jesus himself was understanding...He loved whores, thieves, liars.. You do not know what God will find useful.


You said: ( How can you say I have jumped to a wrong religion? Religion is a personal choice. ) You arent chosing a swimsuit my dear. The word cautions you " to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Do you not fear a mighty GOD?

I never said I do not fear God. But, no I do not base my entire belief system on fear. Why would I? My Christ taught love, also. Fearing God has nothing to do with my religion. We both worship the same man.


You said: ( NO one will ever believe the same exact thing. Anyone who believes it possible is a fool by his own right. ) Then you must believe GOD is a fool. Ephesians 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

No, I do not believe that God is a fool. He spoke of hope, FAITH, baptism, and loving him. Not of BELIEVING the same, by way of man.

You DO realize that RELIGION is a creation of man? There was religion before Jesus was born. Created by man. I do not have enough faith in man to trust that he knows everything...that being said, I have to trust that God speaks to my heart in a way that lets me understand doctrine as I was intended to. This is where choosing religion becomes important.


Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. [14] For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."


Do you understand this scripture at all? The surrounding scripture?

What he is saying is clearly a warning. The Sermon on the Mount is now drawing to a close and Jesus concludes it with three stern warnings, the first of which is verses 13-14. It seems to be Jesus' way of summing things up, reminding the disciples and now also us that everything in this grand Sermon is not just some intellectual exercise. This Sermon is not merely some set of ideas and aphorisms and colorful metaphors that you can take or you can leave but with no lasting consequences one way or the other.

Jesus is not Ann Landers nor is he just another pretty religious face nor is he trying to be a therapist for his disciples. He's presenting the blueprint for creation and redemption! The way of the kingdom is not just one valid lifestyle option among many. The Sermon on the Mount has thus far reversed conventional wisdom by offering Beatitudes to all the wrong kinds of folks, it has deepened and intensified the meaning of God's Law by locating its true fulfillment in a person's heart, it has urged love for enemies, it has taught the single most famous prayer of all times, it has warned against the perils of earthly riches and has given the hallmarks of a kingdom citizen.

You should remember the entire sermon on the mount, instead of choosing one scripture to live by out of it.

Flannery O'Connor once lamented the scientists who proudly said that it was possible to breed the wings off of chickens in order to yield more succulent white meat. But a wingless chicken is no chicken.

You can not be a full Christian without all of the Christian attributes. You are but a wingless chicken.

(you should also know, that after verse 12, Matthew and Luke have reinterpreted the sermon Jesus gave integrating elements from Isaiah 51:7 that do not fit with their theology if read quite literally.)

american.swan
01-17-2009, 04:59 PM
I think all religion is bad.

Wouldn't that be the Religion of non-religion. Or the belief system subscribing to the higher good of secular humanist.

For someone to say they have no faith is a lie, for they therefore put faith in themselves and whatever power they think that holds.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 05:05 PM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.

Any religion that thinks priests or landlords have some 'sacred' right to raping little girls when they reach puberty. I watched this Indian movie called Maya(2001) that tells the story of a little girl that was subjected to this practice.

According to some googling I did after watching the movie, this practice is still happening for somewhere between 5K and 15K girls a year in India.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/all-views/6239-passage-india-maya.html

In the movie it wasn't one priest but quite a few, who essentially 'busted a train' on a little girl. It was quite enraging just watching even though you knew it was fiction.

http://www.indiaparenting.com/indianculture/dances/dance008.shtml


Deflowering: The next stage or Second Pattam is that of deflowering the girl. The deflowering ceremony is generally conducted after the girl's first menstruation period. While devadasis were originally deflowered by the temple pundits, as time passed, they slowly started being sold to the village landlord. He would patronize the dedication ceremony, and then go on to deflower her - thus effectively completing the process of dedication of the innocent girl, and throwing her to a life of forced prostitution. The girl, who is at an age when she is barely able to comprehend the changes of puberty, is forced to have sex with a middle-aged man chosen by her parents.

The film was banned in India.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 05:23 PM
Exactly, I never said there were errors. Ever.

I said, WE have lost their meaning. Because people translated the bible. People who had thoughts about things themselves. And, we read them not knowing terminology and translation from other languages ourselves.




Yes, I have so much faith in my God, that questioning his existence only strengthens my belief in him. Are your beliefs so faulty you will not question them, in fear they are not correct?



No, this means I try to have the fruits of the spirit. I am not PC. I cuss like a sailor sometimes, I am more than slightly offensive, and I HATE when people are PC. I am not new aged at all..since when is understanding new aged? Jesus himself was understanding...He loved whores, thieves, liars.. You do not know what God will find useful.



I never said I do not fear God. But, no I do not base my entire belief system on fear. Why would I? My Christ taught love, also. Fearing God has nothing to do with my religion. We both worship the same man.



No, I do not believe that God is a fool. He spoke of hope, FAITH, baptism, and loving him. Not of BELIEVING the same, by way of man.

You DO realize that RELIGION is a creation of man? There was religion before Jesus was born. Created by man. I do not have enough faith in man to trust that he knows everything...that being said, I have to trust that God speaks to my heart in a way that lets me understand doctrine as I was intended to. This is where choosing religion becomes important.



Do you understand this scripture at all? The surrounding scripture?

What he is saying is clearly a warning. The Sermon on the Mount is now drawing to a close and Jesus concludes it with three stern warnings, the first of which is verses 13-14. It seems to be Jesus' way of summing things up, reminding the disciples and now also us that everything in this grand Sermon is not just some intellectual exercise. This Sermon is not merely some set of ideas and aphorisms and colorful metaphors that you can take or you can leave but with no lasting consequences one way or the other.

Jesus is not Ann Landers nor is he just another pretty religious face nor is he trying to be a therapist for his disciples. He's presenting the blueprint for creation and redemption! The way of the kingdom is not just one valid lifestyle option among many. The Sermon on the Mount has thus far reversed conventional wisdom by offering Beatitudes to all the wrong kinds of folks, it has deepened and intensified the meaning of God's Law by locating its true fulfillment in a person's heart, it has urged love for enemies, it has taught the single most famous prayer of all times, it has warned against the perils of earthly riches and has given the hallmarks of a kingdom citizen.

You should remember the entire sermon on the mount, instead of choosing one scripture to live by out of it.

Flannery O'Connor once lamented the scientists who proudly said that it was possible to breed the wings off of chickens in order to yield more succulent white meat. But a wingless chicken is no chicken.

You can not be a full Christian without all of the Christian attributes. You are but a wingless chicken.

(you should also know, that after verse 12, Matthew and Luke have reinterpreted the sermon Jesus gave integrating elements from Isaiah 51:7 that do not fit with their theology if read quite literally.)


WOW!! All I can say is any kind of debate with you as far as the Christian religion is a waste of time. You are truly loony toons. Up is down, right is wrong and anything goes to get to the great reward. Unfortunately for you though, one day, you will know the truth and, every soul you lead astray, their plight will be on your head.

This forum is stuffed to the brim with this kind of vain philosophy and babbling fools!

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 05:24 PM
That is just horrible.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 05:28 PM
WOW!! All I can say is any kind of debate with you as far as the Christian religion is a waste of time. You are truly loony toons. Up is down, right is wrong and anything goes to get to the great reward. Unfortunately for you though, one day, you will know the truth and, every soul you lead astray, their plight will be on your head.

This forum is stuffed to the brim with this kind of vain philosophy and babbling fools!

I will pray for you.

Remember not to judge people to hell, as that is God's job and not yours.

Remember to understand as well as you can, even if you don't agree.

Remember to love everyone, including your enemies.

Living what you believe without seeking to destroy another person's belief system is the easiest way to win a soul for what you believe is right.

Ask questions and try to understand God on a deeper level than just, he will like this, and he won't like that.

Ask yourself why.

Be a good person.

Does anyone else see this as wrong and backwards? As wrong?

No, sorry, a debate is one side presenting facts, and the other side using facts as a rebuttal. Having facts presenting and saying "Nuh-uh!" and running away claiming your way as correct without listening to the facts, and atleast trying to learn the reasoning behind them is simply referred to as arguing.

May I suggest that you pray and ask God, and not your preacher or YOUR beliefs to lead you? After all, as best as I remember we were to allow God's will to be done, not ours.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-17-2009, 05:39 PM
Wouldn't that be the Religion of non-religion. Or the belief system subscribing to the higher good of secular humanist.

For someone to say they have no faith is a lie, for they therefore put faith in themselves and whatever power they think that holds.

Translation:

"Haha, Atheism is a religion too. So we are both equally stupid"

Nope, that argument doesnt fly with me.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 06:59 PM
I will pray for you.

Remember not to judge people to hell, as that is God's job and not yours.

Remember to understand as well as you can, even if you don't agree.

Remember to love everyone, including your enemies.

Living what you believe without seeking to destroy another person's belief system is the easiest way to win a soul for what you believe is right.

Ask questions and try to understand God on a deeper level than just, he will like this, and he won't like that.

Ask yourself why.

Be a good person.

Does anyone else see this as wrong and backwards? As wrong?

No, sorry, a debate is one side presenting facts, and the other side using facts as a rebuttal. Having facts presenting and saying "Nuh-uh!" and running away claiming your way as correct without listening to the facts, and atleast trying to learn the reasoning behind them is simply referred to as arguing.

May I suggest that you pray and ask God, and not your preacher or YOUR beliefs to lead you? After all, as best as I remember we were to allow God's will to be done, not ours.

Awe, look at you trying so hard to take the phony high road.

And as usual you have upheld my position you are Looney Toons. Sorry if that hurt your feelings, I didn't want to have to tell you that you are the poster child for the NEW WORLD RELIGION and you are a useful idiot for the demons that have poisoned your mind.

May I ask that you bend over and kiss your arse goodbye for you have believed the greatest of all lies.

All your flowery pray for and GODLY quotes are such a joke. Satan knows the scriptures backwards and forwards and he also used them against Jesus just as you try to do here as you ply your NEW WORLD RELIGION anything goes as long as it doesn't include Jesus propaganda.

Scat!

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 07:04 PM
No, I am not trying to take the high road at all. This is precisely the reason we are not to judge people, especially ones we do now know.

I am merely stating exactly what I believe, wondering what is so "looney tunes" about it.

I will pray for clarity to find you one day, and that you will realize how hurtful words can be.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 07:19 PM
http://www.seafox.com/islam.html

" Islam claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance. It is, in fact, characterized by instability and religious bigotry. It is our duty to stand for the Gospel and against all other gospels. Islam has rejected the essential teachings of the Word of God. The "prophet" Muhammad brought a message from a false spirit that totally opposes the Gospel of grace. The message of Islam is a curse, not a blessing.

Islam is being presented as a practical, modern religion though it holds its adherents in spiritual bondage. Christians must be diligent to witness to-not dialogue with Muslims. This is God's way of presenting the glorious light of the Gospel. There is only one true religion. It was prophesied in the Garden of Eden, typified in the days of Noah, confirmed to Abraham and Isaac, and realized in Jesus Christ.

While "Christians" are manifesting their "open mindedness," Muslims are spreading their false religious propaganda under the cover of dialogue. Muslims believe that all mankind must be brought into subjection to the spurious teachings of the Qur'an in order to experience peace and blessing. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims believe that the doctrine of the Incarnation of God is blasphemy. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the prophet who fully revealed the final truth. They will not compromise that belief. Muslims are "devoted to their ideals,... and uncompromising with falsehood" ("Moral System of Islam"). Only the glorious, liberating light of the one true Gospel will be able to break through such darkness".


There are no 'chosen peoples'. God does not care about your religion, your friends religion, your friends lack of religion, your enemies religion, or anyone else's religion. He has plenty of time and resources to judge each person according to their own understanding and ability. The "true Gospel" merely says to turn your judgment inward, and direct it at your own actions. "Love thy neighbor" doesn't have an 'out' clause if your neighbor is of a different metaphysical worldview.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 07:27 PM
Watch this


Christians believe that all mankind must be brought into subjection to the teachings of the Bible in order to experience peace and blessing. They will not compromise that belief. Christians believe that the doctrine of the Qu'ran is blasphemy. They will not compromise that belief. Christians believe that Jesus is the prophet who fully revealed the final truth. They will not compromise that belief. Christians are "devoted to their ideals,... and uncompromising with falsehood" . Only the glorious, liberating light of the one true Gospel will be able to break through such darkness".

See how that works?

How spewing hatred, while claiming others do it is judgments, hypocritical judgments, just as Jesus taught us not to do.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 07:30 PM
There are no 'chosen peoples'. God does not care about your religion, your friends religion, your friends lack of religion, your enemies religion, or anyone else's religion. He has plenty of time and resources to judge each person according to their own understanding and ability. The "true Gospel" merely says to turn your judgment inward, and direct it at your own actions. "Love thy neighbor" doesn't have an 'out' clause if your neighbor is of a different metaphysical worldview.

HUH! Is that the gospel according to Harold? The true gospel, is: "those who believe and are Baptized shall be saved, those who believe not shall be damned", in a nut shell!

Sorry about the damned part, I know it isn't PC correct and it may hurt somes feelings but after all, God doesn't care much about your feelings and he isn't playing word games.

You are right about one thing, he does not care about your religion for all the man made religions are an abomination to him. For they have created the mass of living idiocies we are reading on this thread.

I guess those who believed and were baptized actually will turn out to be "the chosen people" because according to what I am reading, the rest go south!

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 07:37 PM
You have shown everyone how hateful even Christians can be. You have proven once and for all for everyone on this board to see why Christians will be mocked and will not be accepted for the rest of time.

You and your kind alone have brought down the name of Christ to be so disgusting, something so fowl, that the stench of your beliefs is what most people see.

I truly pray that God will forgive you for what you have done here today. You have judged wrongly, you have blasphemed the name of Christ by claiming that he preaches hatred, you have hindered spirits of some that you could have impressed with knowledge and understanding, and lastly you have allowed others to form the opinion that religion, especially your is wrong, which I know is not what you were trying for.

I can understand you, and why you believe what you do, but know that I do not agree, and will pray for you every moment I think of this thread. You truly need a blessing that only a greater being, a higher power can offer.

fedup100
01-17-2009, 07:38 PM
Watch this



See how that works?

How spewing hatred, while claiming others do it is judgments, hypocritical judgments, just as Jesus taught us not to do.

HUH! This would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious topic. Any Christian that compromises the word of GOD in any way is not a Christian. They are the doomed church of the last day that will face the wrath of GOD.

The Muslims, Jews, and Catholics, Mormons, Buddists, Satanists, Scientology, atheism, Baptists, Episca......(uh sorry they did compromise and you just know the Lord of Glory is well pleased with their fagot preachers)are just waiting in line to do a little compromising, right.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 07:42 PM
HUH! This would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious topic. Any Christian that compromises the word of GOD in any way is not a Christian. They are the doomed church of the last day that will face the wrath of GOD.

I agree. That is why I am under the impression that you need prayer.

So, what exactly is this great church?

This only church that is truly the church of God?

What religion are you?

Please, do tell.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 07:43 PM
With all due respect, this statement is downright dangerous! For all of you that have never read the word of God, or were raised in an atheist home, or those who hate religion through ignorance, slowly walk away from your attempts here to further drag those who are young and impressionable into the pit.

For those who are seeking God, be very careful who you listen to and that includes me. Study the true word of God and I promise you, you will be stunned as the God of glory proves himself to you.


But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'" -Jesus, Matthew 4:4

The "Word of God" is a metaphor. One does not 'read' it from the Bible. It is similar to the Hindu concept of "Om" being the first sound uttered in the universe. It is sort of a symbolic reference to the 'root cause' in nature.

Don't get trapped in language.


"God is perfect. Men and women are imperfect. As a result mankind can only create imperfect religions. That means that all man-created religions are imperfect and have common characteristics. This makes the one religion created by God unique, because it has characteristics only God could give it.

Christianity, because it was created by God, is a unique religion - with aspects central to Christianity that are different from all other religions.

For example:

The one true religion In Christianity salvation is a free gift given to us by God. In all other religions you achieve salvation through your works or good thoughts.

Untrue. Also, accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a 'deed'. I understand the preaching of 'the gift', but the crux of the preaching is that the reason people are suffering is that they "aren't accepting the gift". Therefore you must act by "accepting the gift". How is this different than performing a "deed"?


The one true religion In no other religion does the leader of that religion die so that his followers may be saved, and then return after death--demonstrating the eternal life we all can have.

God/Jesus is not "the leader of a religion".


The one true religion Christianity is the only religion in which love, including love for your enemies, is the central theme.

I thought the central theme was salvation through the 'gift' you mention above.


The one true religion Only Christianity offers absolute assurance of heaven and eternal life.

I think this is probably open to interpretation. Heaven and eternal life are used in extremely metaphorical senses by many characters in the bible.


The one true religion In no other religion do we find God personally suffering with the people.


Untrue. In other religions, Gods suffer, have wars with other gods, make sacrifices and participate in all manners of human experience.


The one true religion You can be born Jewish; born Buddhist; born as a Hindu -- but it not possible to be born a Christian. Being born into a Christian family does not make you a Christiann. "

Again, I don't think God cares what other religion people call you, or what rituals they do on your behalf, it's what you do that matters.

M House
01-17-2009, 07:49 PM
Dammit, these religious threads are making me start to believe in the existence of hell.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 07:54 PM
I know, M.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:00 PM
HUH!! So this verse[Matthew 7:7-8], )"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. ) means that some may read it and choose the Muslim religion while others may ask and knock and get another revelation!

.......

You said: ( This just means that I am an understanding person, a quality you should learn considering that you are striving to be like Christ.
) This means you are a new age new judeo PC correct Christian. I have no use for you and neither will GOD!


........

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. [14] For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Whether you know it or not you are currently on the "BROAD" way.

Matthew Chapter 7 is truly righteous. But I think you left out the most important part. Verses 1-5



1
Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
2
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.
3
Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
4
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?
5
You hypocrite, 3 remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

And why stop at verse 14? What about 21-23?


21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'
23
Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'

Hmmm, but how shall we know these pricks from prophets oh wise Jesus! Verse 15-16


15
9 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


If you're going to reference the Sermon on the Mount, you should just point people to the whole thing. Jesus doesn't like to be taken out of context, he told me as much.


"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Copy to Clipboard
-- Mahatma Gandhi

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:04 PM
THANK YOU!

It's nice to know that every person that has ever heard of Christianity does not bellieve us all to be like this guy.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:10 PM
HUH! Is that the gospel according to Harold? The true gospel, is: "those who believe and are Baptized shall be saved, those who believe not shall be damned", in a nut shell!

Sorry about the damned part, I know it isn't PC correct and it may hurt somes feelings but after all, God doesn't care much about your feelings and he isn't playing word games.

You are right about one thing, he does not care about your religion for all the man made religions are an abomination to him. For they have created the mass of living idiocies we are reading on this thread.

I guess those who believed and were baptized actually will turn out to be "the chosen people" because according to what I am reading, the rest go south!

God definitely isn't playing word games, but many people calling themselves Christians seem to be hopelessly entangled in words and rituals.

It's obvious we won't be coming to an agreement because I don't believe that the Bible is divine revelation any more than a tree is.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:16 PM
And, it is obvious that we won't be coming to an agreement because I refuse to believe that anything as beautiful as a man dying for my sins on a cross would applaud your efforts of saying what he means, when we can all mean what he means, if as you say, the bible has exactly what he wanted us to believe and judge for ourselves what it means to each of us.

It is really sad when someone who believes everything you stand for means nothing understands what your religion means more than the follower of that religion, isn't it?

Thank you for everyone that stood against the hate that came form this person, who is so proud of his religion that he will not even tell us what it is.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Awe, look at you trying so hard to take the phony high road.

And as usual you have upheld my position you are Looney Toons. Sorry if that hurt your feelings, I didn't want to have to tell you that you are the poster child for the NEW WORLD RELIGION and you are a useful idiot for the demons that have poisoned your mind.

May I ask that you bend over and kiss your arse goodbye for you have believed the greatest of all lies.

All your flowery pray for and GODLY quotes are such a joke. Satan knows the scriptures backwards and forwards and he also used them against Jesus just as you try to do here as you ply your NEW WORLD RELIGION anything goes as long as it doesn't include Jesus propaganda.

Scat!

I love when people dismiss someone, by saying that even Satan knows the Bible. By that rationale we shouldn't believe anyone who is quoting scripture. And definitely not on the internet.

I've read the New Testament, and I see no solid connection between what Jesus taught and what the established teaching currently is in modern Christianity.

If a group of English speaking people were to get a hold of the New Testament on a desert island and they all had cultural amnesia, I would find it hard to believe that they would in any way come up with the set of beliefs widely held by the Christian establishment.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:21 PM
Thing is, Wizard, many people that are Christians, pick and choose which of God's laws matter to them the most out of the Old Testament, which was the part that can be hard to swallow...It is the part with the laws that are not in existence anymore. This is the part that destroys most religions.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:23 PM
And, it is obvious that we won't be coming to an agreement because I refuse to believe that anything as beautiful as a man dying for my sins on a cross would applaud your efforts of saying what he means, when we can all mean what he means, if as you say, the bible has exactly what he wanted us to believe and judge for ourselves what it means to each of us.

It is really sad when someone who believes everything you stand for means nothing understands what your religion means more than the follower of that religion, isn't it?

Thank you for everyone that stood against the hate that came form this person, who is so proud of his religion that he will not even tell us what it is.

No thanks necessary. You and everyone else is covered by my blanket anti-bullshit clause, which goes something like:


"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:26 PM
aws, thanks..

M House
01-17-2009, 08:33 PM
Haha, you guys both know better than to bring him into a religious argument here.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:37 PM
yeah, unless we want have to go farther and need some more crazies comin in here, we'd better erase all the evidence. :)

this might LEad me to BE quite angered at THEOlogy centered arguments or atleast the TONE of it.

Get that did ya?

M House
01-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Yeah went back and edited, this religious discussion is about to hit a wall and I didn't want to find myself without a seat belt.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:43 PM
Me too. lol. Took a whole danged section out of my post. :)

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:47 PM
Thing is, Wizard, many people that are Christians, pick and choose which of God's laws matter to them the most out of the Old Testament, which was the part that can be hard to swallow...It is the part with the laws that are not in existence anymore. This is the part that destroys most religions.

You mean like Leviticus 20?


1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “You shall also say to the sons of Israel:
‘Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3 ‘I will also set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech, so as to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name. 4 ‘If the people of the land, however, should ever disregard that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech, so as not to put him to death, 5 then I Myself will set My face against that man and against his family, and I will cut off from among their people both him and all those who play the harlot after him, by playing the harlot after Molech.
6 ‘As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people. 7 ‘You shall consecrate yourselves therefore and be holy, for I am the LORD your God. 8 ‘You shall keep My statutes and practice them; I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
9 ‘If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
10 ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 ‘If there is a man who lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them. 12 ‘If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them. 13 ‘If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. 14 ‘If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst. 15 ‘If there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal. 16 ‘If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
17 ‘If there is a man who takes his sister, his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter, so that he sees her nakedness and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace; and they shall be cut off in the sight of the sons of their people. He has uncovered his sister’s nakedness; he bears his guilt. 18 ‘If there is a man who lies with a menstruous woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow, and she has exposed the flow of her blood; thus both of them shall be cut off from among their people. 19 ‘You shall also not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister or of your father’s sister, for such a one has made naked his blood relative; they will bear their guilt. 20 ‘If there is a man who lies with his uncle’s wife he has uncovered his uncle’s nakedness; they will bear their sin. They will die childless. 21 ‘If there is a man who takes his brother’s wife, it is abhorrent; he has uncovered his brother’s nakedness. They will be childless.
22 ‘You are therefore to keep all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them, so that the land to which I am bringing you to live will not spew you out. 23 ‘Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I will drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them. 24 ‘Hence I have said to you, “You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 ‘You are therefore to make a distinction between the clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; and you shall not make yourselves detestable by animal or by bird or by anything that creeps on the ground, which I have separated for you as unclean. 26 ‘Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine.
27 ‘Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.’”

Whoopi Goldberg did some stand up where she was making fun of Leviticus.

If you have sex with the animal, why does the animal have to die? Seems unfair to the animal since I'm sure it was non-consensual.

Danke
01-17-2009, 08:48 PM
Why Atheism, of course. The belief there are no deities.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Why Atheism, of course. The belief there are no deities.

What if you don't believe in beliefs, would that be like a level above atheism?

TER
01-17-2009, 08:51 PM
[B]" For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book,” Revelation 22:18, 19."


The book mentioned in this verse pertains to the Book of Revelation, not the entire Holy Scriptures.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:53 PM
lol. yes, exactly, wizard.

Or

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

or from Deuteronomy:

Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

only to name a few.

M House
01-17-2009, 08:55 PM
Jeez, seeing that why would anyone point a finger at Islam for violence?

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 08:56 PM
It is beyond me...besides the fact that we, as Christian Americans are a moral authority, remember?

M House
01-17-2009, 08:59 PM
The only time we started having moral authority was when we learned to separate it from the church. Seeing how some kinda want to go back in that direction makes me concerned.

TER
01-17-2009, 09:05 PM
I think we should remember that the during the time of Leviticus and the patriarchs of the Jewish people, God had allowed certain rules of conduct and behavior due to the weakness of the people. At the moment of Christ's incarnation, which is the most profound mystery of all (whereas God Himself condescended and took up human nature in order to heal it), a cosmic change happened in all of creation. Jesus, the God-man heals the estrangement from God, destroys death and corruption, and fulfills all prophecies and teaching prior to that. A new covenant is created, and what was allowed or disallowed in the past finds fulfillment in Christ's teachings of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself.'

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 09:05 PM
You want to know the ironic part?

Usually it is people who claim that for the sake of the teachings of Jesus that we should make laws on morals....

Now, here's where it gets good.

You say separation of church and state..and they say, tell me any document where our founding fathers said that?

How's this for a founding father:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (“Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ”) (Matthew 22:21)

Danke
01-17-2009, 09:12 PM
What if you don't believe in beliefs, would that be like a level above atheism?

unfuckenbelievable, that is a State religion.

Or at least that is what everyone says every time the government does something new (but consistent with a bureaucrats' beliefs).

M House
01-17-2009, 09:21 PM
The founders were pretty interesting people, huh?

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 09:23 PM
OH NO>>>DELETE YOUR POST PLEASE.

Jesus said it, not our founding fathers. That's why it is ironic.

M House
01-17-2009, 09:28 PM
I'll get around to it, but yeah I'll make it um more PC when I figure out a good way to restate.

Edited: Okay, got it switched to something benign kinda like a slug. Left only a bit of a trail.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 09:30 PM
no, I don't want it more PC I want it to not make this into a thread that I will want nothing to do with...you know how that'll happen.

Then I have no excuse for post whoring...no good threads will be left...and this one will be lik e900 pages and be annoying as all get out.lol.

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 09:34 PM
I think we should remember that the during the time of Leviticus and the patriarchs of the Jewish people, God had allowed certain rules of conduct and behavior due to the weakness of the people. At the moment of Christ's incarnation, which is the most profound mystery of all (whereas God Himself condescended and took up human nature in order to heal it), a cosmic change happened in all of creation. Jesus, the God-man heals the estrangement from God, destroys death and corruption, and fulfills all prophecies and teaching prior to that. A new covenant is created, and what was allowed or disallowed in the past finds fulfillment in Christ's teachings of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself.'

Most of this though is just interpretation of scripture.

My problem with Christianity and with people like FedUp relates to dogmatic systems that try to separate believers and non-believers. Setting up dogmatic creeds about what constitutes belief and what does not, and then making judgments based on that is confrontational and I believe goes against the teachings of every religion I've studied.

This methodology is not germane to the original teachings. Teaching is only teaching. What sense does it make to ask someone if they believe what you have not yet taught?

TER
01-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Most of this though is just interpretation of scripture.

My problem with Christianity and with people like FedUp relates to dogmatic systems that try to separate believers and non-believers. Setting up dogmatic creeds about what constitutes belief and what does not, and then making judgments based on that is confrontational and I believe goes against the teachings of every religion I've studied.

This methodology is not germane to the original teachings. Teaching is only teaching. What sense does it make to ask someone if they believe what you have not yet taught?

A major problem IMHO with western Christianity, in particular the Protestant faith, is with the doctrine of sola scriptura.

sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the assertion that the Bible as God's written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

This leads to relativism and incorrect praxis due to misinterpreting the Scriptures. The study of Scriptures should not be done from personal interpretations but always seen within the context of Holy Tradition, which gave birth to the Scripture. This has always been the practice of the Church from it's inception. It is these 'personal interpretations' which have led to the 30,000 denominations within the Protestant Church.

It was the Church which first passed down the bible through verbal tradition, which led to members within the Church to write down these teachings and writings, the Church which decided which books should be contained within the canonized books you see when you go to Barnes and Nobles and buy the latest version of the Holy Bible, and the Church which is the defender of these teachings. Even if all the books in all the world would disappear, the teachings and writings of the Word of God would live through the Church.

ACTS(26-31):

Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."

Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

asimplegirl
01-17-2009, 10:02 PM
I'll get around to it, but yeah I'll make it um more PC when I figure out a good way to restate.

Edited: Okay, got it switched to something benign kinda like a slug. Left only a bit of a trail.

yes, much better

wizardwatson
01-17-2009, 10:34 PM
A major problem IMHO with western Christianity, in particular the Protestant faith, is with the doctrine of sola scriptura.

sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the assertion that the Bible as God's written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

This leads to relativism and incorrect praxis due to misinterpreting the Scriptures. The study of Scriptures should not be done from personal interpretations but always seen within the context of Holy Tradition, which gave birth to the Scripture. This has always been the practice of the Church from it's inception. It is these 'personal interpretations' which have led to the 30,000 denominations within the Protestant Church.

It was the Church which first passed down the bible through verbal tradition, which led to members within the Church to write down these teachings and writings, the Church which decided which books should be contained within the canonized books you see when you go to Barnes and Nobles and buy the latest version of the Holy Bible, and the Church which is the defender of these teachings. Even if all the books in all the world would disappear, the teachings and writings of the Word of God would live through the Church.

ACTS(26-31):

Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."

Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

My understanding is that Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is within us. That he himself was within us. The real church has no organization and needs no book. Churches as organizations are useful only so far as they further charity and give help where help is needed. There is no authority vested by God within the church.

If God is within us there is no need to delegate his authority, he has full access to everyone at all times. Therefore submission to others who have a closer relationship or higher standing in "the Church" I believe is simply not necessary and certainly not part of the fundamental teaching, regardless of the historical fact that this is how it has been for ages.

Submission is to God directly, there is no separation so there is no intermediary to submit to.

The relationship with the teacher is completely different than a relationship with God. Teachers are only there to keep the student from wandering from the path. But the 'transmission' of what is being taught is between the student and the spirit/God. Nothing is transmitted from teacher to student.

heavenlyboy34
01-17-2009, 10:36 PM
I like the way you put it. Well said! :D ~hugs~


My understanding is that Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is within us. That he himself was within us. The real church has no organization and needs no book. Churches as organizations are useful only so far as they further charity and give help where help is needed. There is no authority vested by God within the church.

If God is within us there is no need to delegate his authority, he has full access to everyone at all times. Therefore submission to others who have a closer relationship or higher standing in "the Church" I believe is simply not necessary and certainly not part of the fundamental teaching, regardless of the historical fact that this is how it has been for ages.

Submission is to God directly, there is no separation so there is no intermediary to submit to.

The relationship with the teacher is completely different than a relationship with God. Teachers are only there to keep the student from wandering from the path. But the 'transmission' of what is being taught is between the student and the spirit/God. Nothing is transmitted from teacher to student.

robert4rp08
01-17-2009, 10:48 PM
According to South Park, the Mormons are right...

TER
01-17-2009, 11:15 PM
My understanding is that Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is within us. That he himself was within us. The real church has no organization and needs no book. Churches as organizations are useful only so far as they further charity and give help where help is needed. There is no authority vested by God within the church.

If God is within us there is no need to delegate his authority, he has full access to everyone at all times. Therefore submission to others who have a closer relationship or higher standing in "the Church" I believe is simply not necessary and certainly not part of the fundamental teaching, regardless of the historical fact that this is how it has been for ages.

Submission is to God directly, there is no separation so there is no intermediary to submit to.

The relationship with the teacher is completely different than a relationship with God. Teachers are only there to keep the student from wandering from the path. But the 'transmission' of what is being taught is between the student and the spirit/God. Nothing is transmitted from teacher to student.


When Jesus had resurrected, He stayed with the disciples for 40 days 'speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God' (Acts 1:3). He was instructing them and He commissions them: 'But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.' (Acts 1:8)

Soon after that was the Day of Pentecost, which is considered to be the birth of the Church on earth. In this event, the Holy Spirit descended in the form of 'divided tongues, as of fire'. (Acts 2:3)

Immediately after that, these same Apostles, bearers of the Holy Spirit, form a Church, the Body of Christ. They spread far and wide, baptizing thousands and anointing bishops by the laying of hands in the name of the Holy Spirit.

This has been the structure of the Church since its very inception. The same Apostles initiated these things after being instructed by the Risen Christ for 40 days and being graced by the Holy Spirit.

Can we agree to this so far?

Omphfullas Zamboni
01-17-2009, 11:18 PM
According to South Park, the Mormons are right...

LDS leader praises South Park. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

TER
01-17-2009, 11:21 PM
LDS leader praises South Park. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

I didn't know Rick Astley was Mormon?:eek:

Omphfullas Zamboni
01-18-2009, 12:24 AM
I didn't know Rick Astley was Mormon?:eek:

Hehe. No, sir. I just wanted to try the ol' Rick Roll once before the fad failed. This is my first one, (I've been around here for over a year.)

TER
01-18-2009, 12:50 AM
I am honored to have shared
In your first Rick Roll post.
:)

TER
01-18-2009, 12:55 AM
The next phase you may encounter is a strong affinity towards bunchies.

Omphfullas Zamboni
01-18-2009, 01:02 AM
I am honored to have shared
In your first Rick Roll post.
:)

Bravo. I shall take a bow and conclude my wacky interjection by encouraging you all to continue your more serious musings. Good night.

Be well.

Sleepily,
Omphfullas Zamboni

TER
01-18-2009, 01:10 AM
Sleep well
:)

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 09:49 AM
The next phase you may encounter is a strong affinity towards bunchies.

Did I hear someone say BUNCHIES?!

http://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gif :D:)

fedup100
01-18-2009, 11:08 AM
The book mentioned in this verse pertains to the Book of Revelation, not the entire Holy Scriptures.

I believe you are wrong in this assumption and assumption is all you have to go on. That kind of assumption is very dangerous. You could not have read my post and still come to that conclusion. This mans words pretty well sum up what is happening in this thead, we are in the end times and the anti-christ bunch are roaming the streets.

" The curse in and of itself indicates there is a high price to pay for tampering with The Book of Revelation and the scriptures in general. I’ve had some well argued conversations on this subject myself. That’s why I decided to do some research into the whole idea of tampering with God’s word. "

"
This solemn promise of a curse indicates that The Book of Revelation can be understood just as it is written. Why would God place a curse on His Holy word if He knew we couldn’t understand it anyway? But because God knew in advance that evil man would try and manipulate His word for their own personal use and gain, He went ahead and placed that curse on any action that would add to or take away from His word. We see these final verses as a finale to the whole of canonical Scriptures. Since the argument rages on we should take a look at other passages in the Bible to affirm the opinion that God was speaking about all scriptures when He placed such a serious curse at the end of His final Revelation. "

I am no religion and go to no church for I have studied the word of GOD and he warns us to stay away from organized religion for they alone will drag the most people on earth into the pit of hell.

"Simple" needs to change her forum name to something more fitting such as "wolfinsheepsclothing". Apparently by skimming the verses below, she/it is in a whole lot of trouble. These verses make it crystal clear that GOD will not bless or take care of any people that allow other gods or their symbols to be accepted with or sit next to his!!

" Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) "

The rest of you that have piled on are no better than "asimplemindedatheist" for you are all tools of the end time one world church.


As far as Jesus not being God, he was GOD in flesh that walked the earth. The angel told Joseph to name the child Jesus after his father in Heaven. The word says that the name of Jesus is the name above all names and that demons tremble at the mention of his name. We have God the father and his spirit the Holy Ghost and his physical body in the form of Jesus who now stands at the right hand of the father. When all is complete and you stand in heaven before the throne, there will not be three GODS on the throne, but one, Jesus Christ the Lord of Glory, the Alpha and Omega.

All of you that piled on need to know who you are working for........

http://eternalpath.com/antichrist.html


The Antichrist Will Embrace the New Age System

Compiled By S. E. Ray

Already, Christians are being branded as narrow-minded bigots for claiming Christ as the only way unto the father. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6 KJV). Christianity is currently being discredited by New Agers and those who follow the biblical teachings are deemed spiritually inferior and enemies of the New Age. The average New Ager will agree that Jesus Christ is God — his worldview will allow that. But his worldview will also compel him to say that Jesus is no more God than anyone else. Though some New Age groups identify themselves as Christian, and most New Agers think highly of Jesus, their endorsements of Him are ghastly substitute for the true Jesus who is the Son of God. This non-deification stance is a perfect catalyst for the coming antichrist. "

" A man will appear among the ranks of humankind, a personable man of great oratory skills and attractive visual appearance. He will rise within a position of political power and will be endued with miraculous powers and perform great works as a testimony to his authority. This man will embrace all religious systems as of “God” and will openly propagate all means as a way to God. His ecumenical approach will win the hearts of those who hear; even many of those who call upon the name of Christ. This man, the antichrist, will deceive most to believe he is the one who will bring hope to the world. After assuming the reins of power, the great world leader will usher in a period of universal peace and prosperity. His magnetism and charisma will enable him to establish himself at the helm of a One World Government, One World Economy, and a One World New Age Religion.
"

TER
01-18-2009, 11:36 AM
" For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book,” Revelation 22:18, 19."



Actually, no, the book being referred to is the Book of Revelation. For this particular verse, context certainly goes a long way.

And no, this is not my interpretation, but the interpretation of the Holy Fathers of the Church. Or, perhaps, you have more insight then they do?

As a Christian, you should be spending less time worried about the end times and more worried about your own soul.

TER
01-18-2009, 11:43 AM
I believe you are wrong in this assumption and assumption is all you have to go on. That kind of assumption is very dangerous. You could not have read my post and still come to that conclusion. This mans words pretty well sum up what is happening in this thead, we are in the end times and the anti-christ bunch are roaming the streets.

What is more dangerous is relying on your own personal interpertation. Some in the past that did the same thing:

* Adoptionism: a minority Christian belief that Jesus was born merely human and that he became divine later in his life.
* Apollinarism: a teaching wherein Jesus is rationally God and corporeally human, but not rationally human, and thus not fully human; often regarded as a form of Monophysitism.
* Arianism: the teachings adopted by the theologian Arius which state that Christ had been given every honor but divinity, which conflicts with the doctrine of the hypostatic union (Christ's nature was wholly divine and wholly human) which was held by the Church.
* Bogomils: a Gnostic dualistic sect, the synthesis of Armenian Paulicianism and the Bulgarian Slavonic Church reform movement, which emerged in Bulgaria between 927 and 970 and spread into Byzantine Empire, Serbia, Bosnia, Italy and France.
* Docetism: the belief that Jesus' physical body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion; that is, Jesus only seemed to have a physical body and to physically die, but in reality he was incorporeal, a pure spirit, and hence could not physically die.
* Nestorianism: the doctrine that Christ exists as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, or Logos, rather than as two natures (True God and True Man) of one divine person.
* Manichaeism: a major dualistic religion stating that good and evil are equally powerful, and that material things are evil, whose founder, Mani, was eager to describe himself as a "disciple of Jesus Christ", but the early Christian church rejected him as a heretic.
* Monophysitism: the Christological position that Christ has only one nature (divine), as opposed to the Chalcedonian position which holds that Christ has two natures, one divine and one human or the Miaphysite position which holds that the divine and human natures of Christ were united as one divine human nature from the point of the Incarnation onwards.
* Monothelitism: teaches that Jesus Christ had two natures but only one will. This is contrary to the orthodox interpretation of Christology, which teaches that Jesus Christ has two wills (human and divine) corresponding to his two natures.
* Psilanthropism: a belief that Jesus is "merely human": either that he never became divine, or that he never existed prior to his incarnation as a man.

Why did these heresies not become the accepted teachings of Christianity? Because of the Church through the Holy Spirit.

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 11:49 AM
What is more dangerous is relying on your own personal interpertation. Some in the past that did the same thing:

* Adoptionism: a minority Christian belief that Jesus was born merely human and that he became divine later in his life.
* Apollinarism: a teaching wherein Jesus is rationally God and corporeally human, but not rationally human, and thus not fully human; often regarded as a form of Monophysitism.
* Arianism: the teachings adopted by the theologian Arius which state that Christ had been given every honor but divinity, which conflicts with the doctrine of the hypostatic union (Christ's nature was wholly divine and wholly human) which was held by the Church.
* Bogomils: a Gnostic dualistic sect, the synthesis of Armenian Paulicianism and the Bulgarian Slavonic Church reform movement, which emerged in Bulgaria between 927 and 970 and spread into Byzantine Empire, Serbia, Bosnia, Italy and France.
* Docetism: the belief that Jesus' physical body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion; that is, Jesus only seemed to have a physical body and to physically die, but in reality he was incorporeal, a pure spirit, and hence could not physically die.
* Nestorianism: the doctrine that Christ exists as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, or Logos, rather than as two natures (True God and True Man) of one divine person.
* Manichaeism: a major dualistic religion stating that good and evil are equally powerful, and that material things are evil, whose founder, Mani, was eager to describe himself as a "disciple of Jesus Christ", but the early Christian church rejected him as a heretic.
* Monophysitism: the Christological position that Christ has only one nature (divine), as opposed to the Chalcedonian position which holds that Christ has two natures, one divine and one human or the Miaphysite position which holds that the divine and human natures of Christ were united as one divine human nature from the point of the Incarnation onwards.
* Monothelitism: teaches that Jesus Christ had two natures but only one will. This is contrary to the orthodox interpretation of Christology, which teaches that Jesus Christ has two wills (human and divine) corresponding to his two natures.
* Psilanthropism: a belief that Jesus is "merely human": either that he never became divine, or that he never existed prior to his incarnation as a man.

Why did these heresies not become the accepted teachings of Christianity? Because of the Church through the Holy Spirit.

I always thought it was because the practicioners of these "heresies" didn't have as much State backing, money, or firepower as the others. :(

fedup100
01-18-2009, 11:55 AM
Actually, no, the book being referred to is the Book of Revelation. For this particular verse, context certainly goes a long way.

And no, this is not my interpretation, but the interpretation of the Holy Fathers of the Church. Or, perhaps, you have more insight then they do?

As a Christian, you should be spending less time worried about the end times and more worried about your own soul.

Holy fathers of what church? This is a perfect example of human beings as sheep huddled under a purported Holy leader and taking everything they say as gospel while never going to GODS word for the correct interpretation or meaning.

Men are not Holy. One can be made Holy in the site of GOD after he has been saved according to the word and has taken the blood of Christ as a covering for his sin. Based on this, all men who do so can be considered Holy in GODS eye's as far as prayer.

So Christians are not suppose to notice the end times according to whom? We are not suppose to guard ourselves against the lie of the anti-Christ either I suppose.

Thank you for your concern, but you need not worry about my soul, worry about your own. You, not your priest, are to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling, to not do so could cause you to be lost forever.

Salvation that is sure and will seal you as saved until the day of redemption is found at Mark 16: 15-18 and Acts: 2:38, King James Bible. Salvation is simple and quick and sure and does not require volumes of pomp and circumstance in Latin or fees paid in order to be saved in the eye's of GOD.

TER
01-18-2009, 12:04 PM
I always thought it was because the practicioners of these "heresies" didn't have as much State backing, money, or firepower as the others. :(

Actually, no. In fact, one of the greatest heresies was the Arian heresy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism) in the third century, and it became very widespread throughout all of Christendom. In a nutshell, Arius taught that Christ, though divine, was a creation, a sort of demi-god. Heresies have always sprung up from within the Church (ex: look at St. Paul's writings in the New Testament. Heresies were rampant even just a few years after the Lord's Ascension.) With Arianism, it had threatened the entire foundation of Christian teaching that Jesus is one essence with the Father. At that time, all of the bishops from all over Christendom came together in assembly and formed the First Ecumenical Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea) to discuss this heresy and attain a consensus. It was through this council that the Symbol of Faith was pronounced (aka the Nicean Creed) and the beliefs of the Church (as passed down from Christ Himself to his Apostles) were maintained.

TER
01-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Holy fathers of what church? This is a perfect example of human beings as sheep huddled under a purported Holy leader and taking everything they say as gospel while never going to GODS word for the correct interpretation or meaning.

Men are not Holy. One can be made Holy in the site of GOD after he has been saved according to the word and has taken the blood of Christ as a covering for his sin. Based on this, all men who do so can be considered Holy in GODS eye's as far as prayer.

So Christians are not suppose to notice the end times according to whom? We are not suppose to guard ourselves against the lie of the anti-Christ either I suppose.

Thank you for your concern, but you need not worry about my soul, worry about your own. You, not your priest, are to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling, to not do so could cause you to be lost forever.

Salvation that is sure and will seal you as saved until the day of redemption is found at Mark 16: 15-18 and Acts: 2:38, King James Bible. Salvation is simple and quick and sure and does not require volumes of pomp and circumstance in Latin or fees paid in order to be saved in the eye's of GOD.

Do you know anything about the history of Christianity or do you just believe what you want to believe?

fedup100
01-18-2009, 12:50 PM
Do you know anything about the history of Christianity or do you just believe what you want to believe?

Colossians 2 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Since you appear to like to study the history of the church or churches, have you studied this mans work? I ask you to study this in love and not as a dig as to your religion. Millions of precious people in all religions have been led astray. The word says to study to show yourself approved.

http://www.21tnt.com/archive_for_articles/whyileft.htm

"Why I Left the Roman Catholic Church" by James Beller

" Growing up on the south side of St. Louis, I was a part of the St. Pius V Roman Catholic parish on Grand Avenue. I received my confirmation and first holy communion in the mid-1960's and attended the grade school on Utah street. It was in this parish that I made my first confession and penance. My knowledge of the Catholic faith, its sacraments, and dogmas were first revealed to me in grade school.


After my salvation, I began to read as much as I could about the grace of God and belief. I was now 17 years old, and I could not understand how I could have missed the simplicity of salvation in my religion and catechism classes. I even called the 700 club to ask them where to go to church since I had recently been born again. When they suggested that I return to the Roman Catholic Church, I began to study the sacraments and canon law.

I went to the shelf in our living room and pulled down our huge family Bible. It was a beautiful thing, full of old smells and brilliant art work. It was a Confraternity Version, used often as presentation bibles of Holy Mother Church in those days. In the back of the "bible" were listed some doctrines. I began to study these and many other documents and compare them to the scriptures. It was this study that led me to leave the church of my childhood.

A miniscule study of history indicates that sacraments were used to convert the masses by man-made means. At the threat of starvation, banishment, the stake, torture rack, pinchers, waxings, beheading, dissection and countless other monstrous inventions, people were forced to accept the sacraments and membership in the sacerdotal church for the salvation of their souls.

As a young student of the word of God I took notice that this dogma violated plain, simple scriptures.

Of course I realized now that I had stumbled upon the same doctrines the independent local churches had during the first through third centuries, and on through the dark ages. These people were driven into hiding. I realized I had come across the same crucible the reformers of the 14th and 15th centuries had encountered. It was BELIEF that gave a man eternal life. Salvation is by GRACE (free gift), paid for by the gruesome, bloody death of Jesus Christ on the cross. I began to realize that I had been lied to about the reasons and results of Jesus' death and resurrection. I determined that I was going to know what God's word said about faith.

Dear friends, I was so ignorant of BIBLE doctrine and could not understand why. It became clearer after reading this scripture:

Isaiah 8:20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Then I realized that an obvious, blatant rejection of scripture was taking place. Dear Christian, still in the system of Rome, can you not see that the scriptures have been supplanted by the dogmas of hierarchy? This unscriptural practice of Roman celibacy has lead to generations of sexual sin in the ranks of her clergy.

I suppose that office of the Pope of Rome is the greatest factor that disqualifies the Roman Catholic Church from legitimacy. Without controversy, there is no scriptural grounds for the office of the pope. There exists no Bible basis for his position, no Bible basis for his power.

However, in the first century, the office of the bishop began to be distorted. Powerful men began to influence control over flocks other than their own. In some circles, a bishop would mean someone who ruled not just one church, but several. Because of the influence of the city of Rome, the bishop of the new testament church at Rome began to exert a greater influence. The title pope was first applied to any bishop of a local church, but by the year 300 A.D., it referred exclusively to the bishop of Rome. It was by no means universally accepted. The attempt at popish lordship over individual churches was protested by Tertullian and the Montanists and other independent Christian churches.


In 296 A.D. Christianity was a hated and hunted sect, its blood being spilled in buckets by pagan Pax Romana. But by 313 A.D., the emperor Constantine had issued the edict of toleration and Christianity (the states's version) became the religion of the state. This wedding of church and state eventually corrupted the local churches into one universal state sanctioned church.3 By 378 A.D., this church was already talking about the bishop of Rome holding the power of the keys, making him Pontiff.


The pagan Roman priesthood (before the birth of Jesus Christ) had a sovereign pontiff who held the keys. The goddess Cybele was also worshipped as Cardea, and the college of Cardinals was named for her. The bishops of Rome had time on their side to eventually convince the masses that Peter held the keys and that they, the popes had been granted their power by inheritance from Peter. Never mind that history reveals no visit to Rome from Simon Peter. Simon Peter's presence in Rome could be believed by faith I suppose; however, the popes absence from scripture cannot be denied. The pope is not in the Bible. His office does not exist.

One title the bishop of Rome enjoys is Vicarius Filli Dei, which appears on his dagonesque mitre cap. This title corresponds with the English Vicar of Christ mantle. Has anyone but a handful of scholars ever bothered to look up what the word vicar means? It means substitute, replacement, or anti. By definition, Vicar of Christ is a Christ replacement or anti-Christ.


on and on it goes, with exhaustive research by one man who decided to search this matter out for himself......

TER
01-18-2009, 01:07 PM
I am not Roman Catholic which split from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I am Eastern Orthodox. Unfortunately, many western Christians do not know much about the Orthodox Church, the Church which has been the witness for Christ since He established it on earth. But as is happening right now and will continue to happen as people (Protestants in particular) become more informed of the history and teachings of the Church, the numbers will rise (as they have already been doing so).

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 01:12 PM
I am not Roman Catholic which split from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I am Eastern Orthodox. Unfortunately, many western Christians do not know much about the Orthodox Church, the Church which has been the witness for Christ since He established it on earth. But as is happening right now and will continue to happen as people (Protestants in particular) become more informed of the history and teachings of the Church, the numbers will rise (as they have already been doing so).

About 2 years ago when I began doing research about buildings for my business, I found that all church populations have been in decline over the last few decades-therefore the buildings are ready to be reused for other purposes. Where do you get the figures that inform you that "the numbers will rise"? (if you don't mind me asking)

fedup100
01-18-2009, 01:23 PM
I am not Roman Catholic which split from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I am Eastern Orthodox. Unfortunately, many western Christians do not know much about the Orthodox Church, the Church which has been the witness for Christ since He established it on earth. But as is happening right now and will continue to happen as people (Protestants in particular) become more informed of the history and teachings of the Church, the numbers will rise (as they have already been doing so).

I don't have the link, it has been several months ago, I read where the American churches are rapidly dwindling as members are fleeing the so called churches. The reason given for leaving for most was, "they no longer are teaching the word of GOD"

As the economies collapse and the horrors of this new world order come closer, people will get serious about GOD and the real church will explode, underground if need be.

Uriel999
01-18-2009, 01:28 PM
HUH! This would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious topic. Any Christian that compromises the word of GOD in any way is not a Christian. They are the doomed church of the last day that will face the wrath of GOD.

The Muslims, Jews, and Catholics, Mormons, Buddists, Satanists, Scientology, atheism, Baptists, Episca......(uh sorry they did compromise and you just know the Lord of Glory is well pleased with their fagot preachers)are just waiting in line to do a little compromising, right.

You are a very closed minded individual. See you are part of the anti-intellectual group of "Christians." Perhaps you should listen to your apostle Paul:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NIV) "Test everything. Hold on to the good."

I see you have not heard this before.



Why Atheism, of course. The belief there are no deities.

Atheism is not necessarily the belief there are no gods or a god but is that no tangible proof has been given to support the idea. No religion can prove itself correct and therefore most likely all are wrong. Apologists can scream verses from their holy book until they are blue in the face but that does make them facts. BTW don't let this discussion distract or divide us on the real issue at hand, bunchie liberation!


The next phase you may encounter is a strong affinity towards bunchies.

:D


Did I hear someone say BUNCHIES?!

http://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gifhttp://www.wildpixels.com/bunchies/Images/bunchies_clear1.gif :D:)

Damn, I swear HB34 has some sort of search engine developed just for finding bunchies statements on RPF. Where bunchies comes up, HB is there. He always beats me to to them!

TER
01-18-2009, 01:35 PM
I don't have the link, it has been several months ago, I read where the American churches are rapidly dwindling as members are fleeing the so called churches. The reason given for leaving for most was, "they no longer are teaching the word of GOD"

As the economies collapse and the horrors of this new world order come closer, people will get serious about GOD and the real church will explode, underground if need be.

This is already happening. Many Christian-claimed churches are completely distorting the teachings of Christ and His Church and people are completely confused and fed up. Look at what's happened to the Anglican Church. Look at the 30,000 denominations of Protestant world. They did right to protest the Catholic Church in the 1500's, but unfortunately they through the baby out with the bathwater. They should have looked east, where there was no 'dark ages' and where the Church was always alive. The real church, which was literally underground in the catacombs for the first 300 years of Christianity, has always been here, has always been teaching the gospel of Christ and the Apostles (in martydom if needed- and no other group/religion can claim to have more martyrs), and is the Church which Christ has promised that "... the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

I urge you to study the history of the Church. You can start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church).

:)

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 01:36 PM
BTW don't let this discussion distract or divide us on the real issue at hand, bunchie liberation!



:D



Damn, I swear HB34 has some sort of search engine developed just for finding bunchies statements on RPF. Where bunchies comes up, HB is there. He always beats me to to them!

I have a bunchie that lives on my hard drive. He can reproduce asexually VERY quickly whenever I tell him to. ;):D

Thanx for the bunchies liberation bump, btw Uriel. ~HUGS!!~ xoxoxo

TER
01-18-2009, 01:40 PM
About 2 years ago when I began doing research about buildings for my business, I found that all church populations have been in decline over the last few decades-therefore the buildings are ready to be reused for other purposes. Where do you get the figures that inform you that "the numbers will rise"? (if you don't mind me asking)

Eastern Orthodoxy is definitely growing in America. I will try to find some statistics for you. The number of Orthodox compared to Roman Catholics and Protestants are much smaller, but the percent increase every year if very high. It is a well known fact in the Orthodox Church that in many parishes across the country (and in some areas, most of the parishes) a great percentage of the members are converts into the faith.

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Eastern Orthodoxy is definitely growing in America. I will try to find some statistics for you. The number of Orthodox compared to Roman Catholics and Protestants are much smaller, but the percent increase every year if very high. It is a well known fact in the Orthodox Church that in many parishes across the country (and in some areas, most of the parishes) a great percentage of the members are converts into the faith.


Thanks. If you can, would you also break it down state by state-or even major cities? :confused: ~hugs~

fedup100
01-18-2009, 01:50 PM
I am not Roman Catholic which split from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I am Eastern Orthodox. Unfortunately, many western Christians do not know much about the Orthodox Church, the Church which has been the witness for Christ since He established it on earth. But as is happening right now and will continue to happen as people (Protestants in particular) become more informed of the history and teachings of the Church, the numbers will rise (as they have already been doing so).

Catholic Smatholic.......................

The Orthodox and Catholic Churches were one and the same until they separated from one another in 1054 mainly over the role of the Pope.

There are very few theological differences. The main difference is that the Orthodox Churches (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11329a.h... use the Byzantine Rite (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04312d.h... and the Catholic Church use the Roman or Latin Rite.

Pope John Paul II said of the Orthodox Churches in Orientale Lumen, "A particularly close link already binds us. We have almost everything in common."

For the entire document, see: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_p...

TER
01-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Catholic Smatholic.......................

The Orthodox and Catholic Churches were one and the same until they separated from one another in 1054 mainly over the role of the Pope.

There are very few theological differences. The main difference is that the Orthodox Churches (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11329a.h... use the Byzantine Rite (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04312d.h... and the Catholic Church use the Roman or Latin Rite.

Pope John Paul II said of the Orthodox Churches in Orientale Lumen, "A particularly close link already binds us. We have almost everything in common."

For the entire document, see: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_p...

Yes you are correct in some of what you wrote above. There was a unified Church prior to the Great Schism and because of pride (isn't it always the case), the Roman Church split from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, or more commonly know at the time, simply 'the Church'.

amy31416
01-18-2009, 02:52 PM
http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/7/71733/29_2007/quaker.jpg


ETA: I actually mean to say that I think Quakers are possibly a "right" religion, not the wrong one. Whoopsie!

Danke
01-18-2009, 03:19 PM
mn

Uriel999
01-18-2009, 03:46 PM
http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/7/71733/29_2007/quaker.jpg


ETA: I actually mean to say that I think Quakers are possibly a "right" religion, not the wrong one. Whoopsie!

they sure do make delicious oatmeal. Mmmm, outmeal....Apple Cinnamon for me thanks!

priest_of_syrinx
01-18-2009, 03:50 PM
" A man will appear among the ranks of humankind, a personable man of great oratory skills and attractive visual appearance. He will rise within a position of political power and will be endued with miraculous powers and perform great works as a testimony to his authority. This man will embrace all religious systems as of “God” and will openly propagate all means as a way to God. His ecumenical approach will win the hearts of those who hear; even many of those who call upon the name of Christ. This man, the antichrist, will deceive most to believe he is the one who will bring hope to the world. After assuming the reins of power, the great world leader will usher in a period of universal peace and prosperity. His magnetism and charisma will enable him to establish himself at the helm of a One World Government, One World Economy, and a One World New Age Religion.
"

Ok, so was this written by S.E. Ray or you? Either way, it seems irrelevant because if it's not the word of God, then why did you post it in this thread?

OptionsTrader
01-18-2009, 03:52 PM
Or that birthmarks are not marks of the devil.

I would like to think Satan has better things to be doing than giving me birth marks, you know like watching Fox News while in bed with Saddam.

Suzu
01-18-2009, 03:55 PM
It never ceases to amaze me, how much time and energy people waste discussing the pros and cons of various Bronze Age myths.

amy31416
01-18-2009, 03:59 PM
they sure do make delicious oatmeal. Mmmm, outmeal....Apple Cinnamon for me thanks!

Quite right! How many other religions are all about delicious breakfast foods and cookies that *lower* your cholesterol? NONE.

I won't even get into the shoes, but they are just as delicious as the cookies.

TER
01-18-2009, 04:03 PM
It never ceases to amaze me, how much time and energy people waste discussing the pros and cons of various Bronze Age myths.

Perhaps some people for many thousands of years have found truth in what you consider myths.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Perhaps some people for many thousands of years have found truth in what you consider myths.

what makes you think they found truth?

Your myths are no more truth than the Greek myths or the Mayan myths.

TER
01-18-2009, 04:32 PM
what makes you think they found truth?

I should have said they 'believed to have found truth'.


Your myths are no more truth than the Greek myths or the Mayan myths.

You should have said 'I think your myths are no more truth than the Greek myths or the Mayan myths.'

Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-18-2009, 05:37 PM
You should have said 'I think your myths are no more truth than the Greek myths or the Mayan myths.'

Again, trying to keep it a matter of opinion.

Look, things are either true or they are not true. gods are no different. They either exist or they dont. Its not a matter of philosophy or opinion. Its a matter of fact.

Until you can demonstrate something to be true, the default position is not "maybe", its "no". Either demonstrate satisfactory evidence to your claims, or I can safely say your claims are untrue.

asimplegirl
01-18-2009, 07:38 PM
Colossians 2 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Since you appear to like to study the history of the church or churches, have you studied this mans work? I ask you to study this in love and not as a dig as to your religion. Millions of precious people in all religions have been led astray. The word says to study to show yourself approved.

http://www.21tnt.com/archive_for_articles/whyileft.htm

"Why I Left the Roman Catholic Church" by James Beller

" Growing up on the south side of St. Louis, I was a part of the St. Pius V Roman Catholic parish on Grand Avenue. I received my confirmation and first holy communion in the mid-1960's and attended the grade school on Utah street. It was in this parish that I made my first confession and penance. My knowledge of the Catholic faith, its sacraments, and dogmas were first revealed to me in grade school.


After my salvation, I began to read as much as I could about the grace of God and belief. I was now 17 years old, and I could not understand how I could have missed the simplicity of salvation in my religion and catechism classes. I even called the 700 club to ask them where to go to church since I had recently been born again. When they suggested that I return to the Roman Catholic Church, I began to study the sacraments and canon law.

I went to the shelf in our living room and pulled down our huge family Bible. It was a beautiful thing, full of old smells and brilliant art work. It was a Confraternity Version, used often as presentation bibles of Holy Mother Church in those days. In the back of the "bible" were listed some doctrines. I began to study these and many other documents and compare them to the scriptures. It was this study that led me to leave the church of my childhood.

A miniscule study of history indicates that sacraments were used to convert the masses by man-made means. At the threat of starvation, banishment, the stake, torture rack, pinchers, waxings, beheading, dissection and countless other monstrous inventions, people were forced to accept the sacraments and membership in the sacerdotal church for the salvation of their souls.

As a young student of the word of God I took notice that this dogma violated plain, simple scriptures.

Of course I realized now that I had stumbled upon the same doctrines the independent local churches had during the first through third centuries, and on through the dark ages. These people were driven into hiding. I realized I had come across the same crucible the reformers of the 14th and 15th centuries had encountered. It was BELIEF that gave a man eternal life. Salvation is by GRACE (free gift), paid for by the gruesome, bloody death of Jesus Christ on the cross. I began to realize that I had been lied to about the reasons and results of Jesus' death and resurrection. I determined that I was going to know what God's word said about faith.

Dear friends, I was so ignorant of BIBLE doctrine and could not understand why. It became clearer after reading this scripture:

Isaiah 8:20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Then I realized that an obvious, blatant rejection of scripture was taking place. Dear Christian, still in the system of Rome, can you not see that the scriptures have been supplanted by the dogmas of hierarchy? This unscriptural practice of Roman celibacy has lead to generations of sexual sin in the ranks of her clergy.

I suppose that office of the Pope of Rome is the greatest factor that disqualifies the Roman Catholic Church from legitimacy. Without controversy, there is no scriptural grounds for the office of the pope. There exists no Bible basis for his position, no Bible basis for his power.

However, in the first century, the office of the bishop began to be distorted. Powerful men began to influence control over flocks other than their own. In some circles, a bishop would mean someone who ruled not just one church, but several. Because of the influence of the city of Rome, the bishop of the new testament church at Rome began to exert a greater influence. The title pope was first applied to any bishop of a local church, but by the year 300 A.D., it referred exclusively to the bishop of Rome. It was by no means universally accepted. The attempt at popish lordship over individual churches was protested by Tertullian and the Montanists and other independent Christian churches.


In 296 A.D. Christianity was a hated and hunted sect, its blood being spilled in buckets by pagan Pax Romana. But by 313 A.D., the emperor Constantine had issued the edict of toleration and Christianity (the states's version) became the religion of the state. This wedding of church and state eventually corrupted the local churches into one universal state sanctioned church.3 By 378 A.D., this church was already talking about the bishop of Rome holding the power of the keys, making him Pontiff.


The pagan Roman priesthood (before the birth of Jesus Christ) had a sovereign pontiff who held the keys. The goddess Cybele was also worshipped as Cardea, and the college of Cardinals was named for her. The bishops of Rome had time on their side to eventually convince the masses that Peter held the keys and that they, the popes had been granted their power by inheritance from Peter. Never mind that history reveals no visit to Rome from Simon Peter. Simon Peter's presence in Rome could be believed by faith I suppose; however, the popes absence from scripture cannot be denied. The pope is not in the Bible. His office does not exist.

One title the bishop of Rome enjoys is Vicarius Filli Dei, which appears on his dagonesque mitre cap. This title corresponds with the English Vicar of Christ mantle. Has anyone but a handful of scholars ever bothered to look up what the word vicar means? It means substitute, replacement, or anti. By definition, Vicar of Christ is a Christ replacement or anti-Christ.


on and on it goes, with exhaustive research by one man who decided to search this matter out for himself......

Let me tell you how I became Catholic.

I grew up raised by a Pentecostal mother, and a Methodist father. My father's parents, well, his mom was Norwegian and was Lutheran, and his father was just a believer in God and the Earth, he was raised on Pine Ridge reservation, and did not go to a "church". They raised my father Methodist.
My mother's parents...her father's family were red bones form "the neutral zone", Louisiana, who are usually either Pentecostal or Baptist, her mother came from a long line of Catholics. Once married and after having children, she decided to become Pentecostal like my grandfather's people. My mother was then raised Pentecostal.
I was allowed to to go to many different churches around the area I grew up, though there was only one that was Catholic, and it was two towns over. Most of the churches were protestant. I went to all of them, even just to check it out for a little while.
I went to a Pentecostal church with my mom's mom, and then, in high school, my family all decided to go to a Pentecostal church.
I should let you know that during the time of going to these protestant churches, I encountered so much hatred it was unbearable. You would swear we were in Salem. I was not allowed to sing in the choir because I wore makeup, or was not allowed to do things because my hair was cut. I eventually grew to love the Pentecostal Church with the rest of my family, and what I found was more like a cult. The things I went through in this church I will not speak of, but they still haunt my life to this day. Afterward, I went back through the other protestant religions, and found them all to be EXACTLY the same in the way that I hated the Pentecostal church.
So, I began to study religion. I practiced a bit of all of them, devoted months at a time to each.
I had a friend commit suicide. You would not believe what they were saying of her. Or maybe you would. She was 15. She had never been to a church, was not allowed by her parents, and had thought she was a lesbian.
I was told over and over, by nearly every religion that surrounded me, that this good person, this CHILD that had been abused, had been molested, had been tortured by her peers, who were by the way protestant, all of them, and had never been to church, knew nothing of them, except that by the way these "Christians" were acting, she wanted nothing with that religion later in life..this girl was in HELL.
How is she is in Hell, when she was a good person, when she went through all of this, and was merely responding to it, how is she is in hell when she had no chance to know Christ?
My answer? She had never been baptized, and spoken in tongues said the Pentecostals, She had believed herself to be gay, said the Baptists, she had killed herself said the Methodists, all of the above said the Episcopals, the Southern Baptists, The Church of Christ, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Non denominationals.

I should mention that the night she committed suicide was the night I had finally got her mother to allow her to go to church with me. It was the last straw.

So, after the experiences I had, and this last straw, I figured I was done with Churches.
Then I met my husband. The experiences that haunted me from my earlier days in the church that taught me to hate myself, and to feel constant guilt, coupled with some things that were going on at the time caught up to me.
I had decided I was going to enjoy my life, and I would die. It was the only way I could see as out. There was nothing here for me. No one to accept me, even these people that claim to behave as Jesus taught them- they were the most evil of them all.
I did about two weeks worth of drinking, using drugs, and having major emotional blowouts. At the end of this, I decided that the time had come and that I was through. I came home one day while the house was empty. I locked myself in the bathroom. I played on my stereo some calming music, ran a bath, then sat down to write a letter. I spoke of all my reasoning, everything this world had taught me, what religion had taught me, all the guilt, the shame, the hatred.
So, after my letter, I opened a large bottle of about 50 prescription narcotic medications I had been collecting for that day. I swallowed them all in that locked bathroom, all alone in the house, using tap water. Then, I sliced both my wrists, my thighs, careful to catch that femoral artery, my neck, my stomach, and any other place I could see blood close to the skin.
I sank into that nice hot bath, listening to my music, grabbing another bottle of pills as I lay there, popping them in one at the time. I can remember drinking the bath water to swallow them.
The next thing I remember is looking up through the water, and feeling like my chest was going to explode, but not wanting to fight it. I blacked out.
One of my roommates had come home and had waited over an hour to get into the bathroom. Becoming enraged, he decided to kick the locked door down, and give me a piece of his mind. He found me there, pulled me out, made me throw up, and called my parents. They drove an hour to bring me to the hospital.
On the way there, they called dh, who was just a guy who was interested in me at that point, in case he wanted to say goodbye.
I had my stomach pumped, I was in ICU form loss of blood, and did not wake up for days from said blood loss and the massive overdose. I had been drinking for the week beforehand, so my blood was thin.
It took me three days to be able to think clearly after waking up, and to be able to speak.
Come to find out, dh was Catholic, and he had been there with me the entire time.
He had brought me to the bathroom, wiped my bottom, fed me, talked to me, caught my vomit (LOL), he stayed by my side.
Later he told me how God loved me, and told me things I had never before heard, having been such a "heathen" to the churches.
He told me about my friend, how she had not been sent to hell, if her suicide was in answer to her hurt, and she knew no better spiritually. How her sexuality was not a sin unless she acted on those feelings, just like heterosexuality is no sin if not acted on before marraige.
He told me of purgatory. Were God gave those in the "gray" area a chance to follow them, to show to them the truth. They could then go to heaven if they learned what they were intended to.
This was a great thing! Good people could go to heaven, even if they didn't abide by my religion?
We are not practicing, as we have not found a church we are comfortable with in the area, but dh and I are both Catholic, and are children will be raised as such.

I love this religion, and have the freedom now to follow how God leads my heart, not just how he leads my leaders.

That concluded my story of becoming Catholic. How do you think it matches up with your, "why I left Catholicism" story, fedup?

asimplegirl
01-18-2009, 08:21 PM
As I have stated, religion fits people.

All religions were made by man. Every one of them. You find the one that fits you. If you are happy in your religion, I am happy for you.

It all depends on what you have faith in. There is no wrong religion. There is however, a *wrong for me* religion.

M House
01-18-2009, 09:01 PM
Wow, after reading that post.... I like religion much less. Instead of people throwing themselves around in a fever over BS that means nothing until you die, why just live your life the best you can? You know taking responsibility for your actions thus making alittle effort to not make poor choices. Not harming yourself or other people, taking care of kids if you have them. Maybe stop making excuses and get outta this never ending cycle of divorce. I mean damn you liked the person enough to have kids with them....too much to ask....not engaging in abusive relationships, etc. I guess that's hard for some, well if you can make couple of those, not lie like a bastard all the time and some God damns you to Hell or something....go ahead take your punishment and kick him in the crouch for me. I will too on my way down to visit some relatives.

TER
01-18-2009, 09:10 PM
Let me tell you how I became Catholic.

I grew up raised by a Pentecostal mother, and a Methodist father. My father's parents, well, his mom was Norwegian and was Lutheran, and his father was just a believer in God and the Earth, he was raised on Pine Ridge reservation, and did not go to a "church". They raised my father Methodist.
My mother's parents...her father's family were red bones form "the neutral zone", Louisiana, who are usually either Pentecostal or Baptist, her mother came from a long line of Catholics. Once married and after having children, she decided to become Pentecostal like my grandfather's people. My mother was then raised Pentecostal.
I was allowed to to go to many different churches around the area I grew up, though there was only one that was Catholic, and it was two towns over. Most of the churches were protestant. I went to all of them, even just to check it out for a little while.
I went to a Pentecostal church with my mom's mom, and then, in high school, my family all decided to go to a Pentecostal church.
I should let you know that during the time of going to these protestant churches, I encountered so much hatred it was unbearable. You would swear we were in Salem. I was not allowed to sing in the choir because I wore makeup, or was not allowed to do things because my hair was cut. I eventually grew to love the Pentecostal Church with the rest of my family, and what I found was more like a cult. The things I went through in this church I will not speak of, but they still haunt my life to this day. Afterward, I went back through the other protestant religions, and found them all to be EXACTLY the same in the way that I hated the Pentecostal church.
So, I began to study religion. I practiced a bit of all of them, devoted months at a time to each.
I had a friend commit suicide. You would not believe what they were saying of her. Or maybe you would. She was 15. She had never been to a church, was not allowed by her parents, and had thought she was a lesbian.
I was told over and over, by nearly every religion that surrounded me, that this good person, this CHILD that had been abused, had been molested, had been tortured by her peers, who were by the way protestant, all of them, and had never been to church, knew nothing of them, except that by the way these "Christians" were acting, she wanted nothing with that religion later in life..this girl was in HELL.
How is she is in Hell, when she was a good person, when she went through all of this, and was merely responding to it, how is she is in hell when she had no chance to know Christ?
My answer? She had never been baptized, and spoken in tongues said the Pentecostals, She had believed herself to be gay, said the Baptists, she had killed herself said the Methodists, all of the above said the Episcopals, the Southern Baptists, The Church of Christ, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Non denominationals.

I should mention that the night she committed suicide was the night I had finally got her mother to allow her to go to church with me. It was the last straw.

So, after the experiences I had, and this last straw, I figured I was done with Churches.
Then I met my husband. The experiences that haunted me from my earlier days in the church that taught me to hate myself, and to feel constant guilt, coupled with some things that were going on at the time caught up to me.
I had decided I was going to enjoy my life, and I would die. It was the only way I could see as out. There was nothing here for me. No one to accept me, even these people that claim to behave as Jesus taught them- they were the most evil of them all.
I did about two weeks worth of drinking, using drugs, and having major emotional blowouts. At the end of this, I decided that the time had come and that I was through. I came home one day while the house was empty. I locked myself in the bathroom. I played on my stereo some calming music, ran a bath, then sat down to write a letter. I spoke of all my reasoning, everything this world had taught me, what religion had taught me, all the guilt, the shame, the hatred.
So, after my letter, I opened a large bottle of about 50 prescription narcotic medications I had been collecting for that day. I swallowed them all in that locked bathroom, all alone in the house, using tap water. Then, I sliced both my wrists, my thighs, careful to catch that femoral artery, my neck, my stomach, and any other place I could see blood close to the skin.
I sank into that nice hot bath, listening to my music, grabbing another bottle of pills as I lay there, popping them in one at the time. I can remember drinking the bath water to swallow them.
The next thing I remember is looking up through the water, and feeling like my chest was going to explode, but not wanting to fight it. I blacked out.
One of my roommates had come home and had waited over an hour to get into the bathroom. Becoming enraged, he decided to kick the locked door down, and give me a piece of his mind. He found me there, pulled me out, made me throw up, and called my parents. They drove an hour to bring me to the hospital.
On the way there, they called dh, who was just a guy who was interested in me at that point, in case he wanted to say goodbye.
I had my stomach pumped, I was in ICU form loss of blood, and did not wake up for days from said blood loss and the massive overdose. I had been drinking for the week beforehand, so my blood was thin.
It took me three days to be able to think clearly after waking up, and to be able to speak.
Come to find out, dh was Catholic, and he had been there with me the entire time.
He had brought me to the bathroom, wiped my bottom, fed me, talked to me, caught my vomit (LOL), he stayed by my side.
Later he told me how God loved me, and told me things I had never before heard, having been such a "heathen" to the churches.
He told me about my friend, how she had not been sent to hell, if her suicide was in answer to her hurt, and she knew no better spiritually. How her sexuality was not a sin unless she acted on those feelings, just like heterosexuality is no sin if not acted on before marraige.
He told me of purgatory. Were God gave those in the "gray" area a chance to follow them, to show to them the truth. They could then go to heaven if they learned what they were intended to.
This was a great thing! Good people could go to heaven, even if they didn't abide by my religion?
We are not practicing, as we have not found a church we are comfortable with in the area, but dh and I are both Catholic, and are children will be raised as such.

I love this religion, and have the freedom now to follow how God leads my heart, not just how he leads my leaders.

That concluded my story of becoming Catholic. How do you think it matches up with your, "why I left Catholicism" story, fedup?

Glory to God! Thank you my sister-in-Christ for your witness! May the Lord always shine His love upon you and your husband!

M House
01-18-2009, 09:27 PM
You need to quit praising God and get to something concrete real quick here. All I got outta that was life's pretty damn fragile, and we had 1 dead girl and nearly another one over some superstition.

TER
01-18-2009, 09:30 PM
How about this: I will keep praising God and you try to come up with something more concrete.

M House
01-18-2009, 09:40 PM
Death is about as concrete as you can get without hitting your head on pavement.

TER
01-18-2009, 09:45 PM
Death is about as concrete as you can get without hitting your head on pavement.

For those who of little faith, perhaps.

fedup100
01-18-2009, 11:14 PM
Asimplegirl, you have been put through a test. Do not let the sins of men who have been prompted by Satan stand between you and GOD.

You must resist choosing a religion because you hear what you want to hear, the Bible calls that "itching ears". People with itching ears want a GOD and a religion that sounds the way they want it to be. Life is not always fair but if you stand the test, GOD will bring you through to the other side of your experience with wisdom and blessings.

Chapter 1.

I was raised in a hideous little religion in east Texas known as Southern Baptist. My grandfather was the pastor. We were not allowed to go swimming in mixed company or dance or anything else, such as go to the movies or go to hell as my grandfather said.

I knew from early in my life there was a GOD. The reason I know this is my father had to start locking me in my room at night because he woke up twice and found me outside sitting on a big oak stump in a golden ball of light. He would run out of the house and yell my name and the light would go away and I would say to him, Daddy, I was talking to Jesus"! I was two years old.

My father hated all religions. His father, my grandfather had been a circuit riding Elmer Gantry type of preacher that left his family alone during the depression sometimes for a year as he road the circuit preaching. The depression took my fathers brothers and sisters to starvation and he of course blamed his sorry christian father.

I grew up in a cult type Baptist church and would ride my horse and ask GOD to please show me you are real, can you please make that tree fall. Of course no tree fell and i continued to be confused. Blessed are those that believe and have not seen.

I married my first millionaire and then discovered two weeks later he was gay,I divorced him. My Grandfather informed me that I could no longer be saved and go to heaven. I rebelled and decided to live it up. I married another wealthy man and whooped it up world wide and after I spent all the money I wanted and had everything a person could ever want in this life, I again turned myself to this GOD search.

I trudged on and started an exhaustive search for GOD, the real one, the one I had heard miraculous stories about. I welcomed the Jehovah Witness, the Mormons, I traveled to Houston and discovered the perils of Transcendental Meditation and Eastern devil worship, but not before those devils tried to kill me. I started to lose weight and my eyes sunk in and my thoughts went back to suicide. This time I was successful.

My husband came home from work unexpectedly and rushed me to the hospital. I could feel nothing and from the time he placed me on the car seat, the next thing I remembered vividly was a nurse telling the Doctor to just let me die, after all she said, I tried to kill myself and didn't deserve to live. I was stunned at this but still did not comprehend that I was technically dead. I could see nothing, I was in a very dark place, could not see my hand in front of me but I felt very comfortable.

I heard the nurse say "we are loosing her" "her blood pressure is 50 over 40, her lips are turning blue" "The nurse said her face is turning black" shall we call her at 3:25? I was still not understanding that I was dying or dead. All I could think of is how cold that nurse was towards me. I heard the Doctor tell my husband "it's no use, she is gone". My husband was a very prominent man and he screamed to that Doctor to bring her back. The Doctor kept trying to resusitate and then I felt a presence beside me.

I slowly turned to look at what I felt and there are no words to describe what I saw. There was what could only be called a demon standing within 3 feet of me and he was reaching for me and as he touched me, I screamed the most blood curdling scream that I thought could be heard around the world. I awoke and could see the doctors startled face and I would grab him and I would beg him to not make me go back to.... and then I would be back wrestling with this most horrendous and foul smelling thing.

This went own for almost an hour. I checked myself into a mental hospital and agreed to be treated for depression. I had two precious babies and feared I would do something stupid unless I got this thing under control. I also had a healthy fear of death now for I had experienced the other side and if any body tells you there is no hell or demons, don't you believe it.

A friend in Dallas heard of my plight and traveled to the Hospital and there, I finally got a peek of who this God was and how much he loved me. This man told me some simple truths of the Bible and somehow imparted to me the love of GOD and then he left. He was a Baptist. There appeared a gold glowing light in my room and I devoured the literature he gave me and for that day, the Holy Spirit kept a glowing presence for the nurses said they were unable to enter my room.

I left the hospital a week later and looked like another person from the one who came in a month earlier. I had gained 30 lbs in 1 week which is impossible and I looked rosy cheeked and healthy and I was.

I left my husband and move far away. I wanted to leave all those memories and the little town that had treated me so badly. I am a half breed Indian and that is another story. I studied more of the word of GOD and I would pray to him, please don't let me lost. Please show me the truth Lord, please don't let me go to that place again when I die.

I will interject here that GOD will bring the truth to you if you ask him too. I didn't know that then, but I do now. For those that are serious in your heart, he will make sure you hear the truth, but he respects your free will to deny it.

I worked in the clothing Industry in Dallas selling Coutre' clothing. I was drop dead beautiful and had a job that paid a fortune. I took my kids to the Texas state fair. I walked along in a large room looking at different booths that went on for miles. I was walking along and I heard a male voice say to me, go over to that man and ask him for a job. I looked at that booth and laughed out loud. I said "no way" I have a great job, and went on my way. In a few more minutes, I heard the same voice say the same thing again and I looked and there was that same man and the same booth. I walked over to the man and said a voice told me to ask you for a job. He said o.K., your hired. $500 a month plus commission selling storm doors and windows. I was stunned, but took the job!

The first week I worked there, the door opened and there he stood, the love of my life and my future husband. I knew it when I saw him, we were married 6 months later. He was raised United Pentecostal. I went to his church with him and sometimes he would go to my Baptist church. After we were married though, he insisted that we go to his church and I didn't care, I thought they were all the same. My Grandmother did warn me not to go to one of those tongue talking churches or I would burn in hell. I had already made a visit to hell and I was determined to find a way to avoid that in the future.

I was fortunate in that I went to a pentecostal church that did not preach the hair, makeup, pants thing. This preacher was a true man of GOD who knew that kind of cult legalism would turn people away from GOD as it did you asimplegirl. I never knew that my MOM was raised United pentecostal, she married my Dad and he made her swear to never bring it up again, especially to his children. She didn't.

My mother inlaw insisted I be re-baptized in the name of JESUS. I fought it. I was baptized several times in the name of father son and holy ghost and thought it should be enough. I could not get her to let it go, so I agreed. The night the preacher re-baptized me, he said I would come out of the water and I would speak in a new tongue. I wasn't buying it and said defiantly said to him, "and just what if I don't ". Sure enough I didn't and went own about my business.

A year later, a renouned evangelist had come to our church. The services was just beginning as we sat down on the back row of this huge church. This man was talking and my pastor was standing behind him. This man said " God has just told me that there is someone here who does not have the Holy Ghost". He pointed his finger and the masses of people started to move aside as he kept his finger pointed. He said, "you, the lady in the pink glasses". When I realized it was me, I was mortified. My pastor said no, brother so and so in blank Texas called me and said she was baptized a year ago. I said yes, I was baptized, but I have never spoken in tongues. My pastor could not believe his ears.

I relunctently walked down to the front of the Church. The evangelist said this " I want you to raise your hands in praise to GOD and say Halleluyah which is the highest form of praise to GOD the father. I am then going to anoint your forehead in oil, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by the speaking in an unknown tongue". I was still not buying and flippantly held my hands up in praise and did as he instructed me. My eye's were closed, but the instant the oil hit my forehead, the power of GOD came up from my feet and was so strong, my arms flew up with such strength that my wedding ring flew off my finger. I was startled by that and opened my eye's and tried to say "did you see that"? each time I tried to speak, even though I knew what I was trying to say, another strange language would come out my mouth. I tried to hold my hand over my mouth to stop it and by that time everyone in the church was dying laughing at me. The evangelist said "don't try to stop the Holy spirit, this is the baptizim as spoken of in the upper room.

My life forever changed that day.

My sister told me to not tell Mom what had happened. Dad would be distraught to know I had become a holy roller. I didn't tell them. My sister called, she was very upset and a usually very stable person was talking suicide. She ask me this, "can what happened to you happen to me"? I told her to get in the car with her babies and drive strait to my house. I do not know why I also told her this. The Devil does not want you to know the truth or be saved. No matter what happens, do not stop or turn around, you must get here, me and the Pastor will be waiting. She called an hour later and said "I can't get there both the babies were fine when I left, but now both are vomiting in the back seat". I told her, "NO, you must get here. She did. She came out of the water speaking in the unknown tongue. Her children were not sick and as she drove home that day, she said the colors in the world looked totally different to her. Her world had changed too and she could not wait to tell her husband.

Her husband was southern baptist. When she told him what happened to her, he called the baptist preacher he came strait over. He kept her under a bright light all night and kept telling her that the Baptizm of tongues did not happen to her. Her husband forbade her to see me and I did not see or speak to my sister again for 10 years.

My Mother called me when my sister told her what had happened. My Mother told me of how she had been raised in the truth and gave it up and in tears asked if she could come to my house and be re-baptized. She came out of the water speaking in an unknown tongue and lived the next 30 years of her life in the presence of GOD and went on to be with him in 2001.


The next chapter of my life was miracle after miracle. I believed everything I read in the word. I was fasting and praying once a week. I was arguing with my mother about the baptism. I was planning on moving out of state to start another business. I was asking GOD for this and that. I was praying for my dying fish to be healed, why not, the word said I could. They weren't healed. Several of these type things had happened and all of a sudden I was mad at GOD. I went to pray that night of fasting and I told him he had lied to me and I wanted nothing else to do with this and left the church. I was feeling good about my decision.

I went to bed and early the next morning around 4 am, I felt a warm hand on my shoulder and I assumed it was one of my kids. I opened my eye's and saw no one. Now, I knew I felt that and I was like waiting to see if it would happen again. It did! I felt it, I opened my eye's and there, right there on my shoulder was a hand. A pale whitish colored hand. I quickly sat up and crossed my arms as if to say "I KNOW I SEE THIS"!! I watched the hand float away into the room and disappear, then I heard a voice, an audible voice that was male, is was soft with no accent of any kind. The voice said "JAMES 4". My shoulders dropped and I had a perplexed expression on my face for I truly did not understand the message. Then in a voice that sounded like the roaring waters of a giant waterfall and in booming loudness that sounded as if it could be heard around the world, the voice said "James 4 FOR I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD!!! I jumped from the bed and was running and screaming in place and my husband was still asleep. I jumped on him and rapidly told him of my plight. He was not phased. He said "go get the Bible, it is the book of James"

I ran and I got the Bible and I started reading James 4 and quickly my joy turned to sorrow for GOD told me off, chewed me up and spit me out. For those who want to read it, help yourself. I called my pastor and I was hysterical and he was laughing so hard he fell out of his bed. He calmed me down and said " GOD chastises those that he loves. He loves you and he has corrected you and count it all joy". I was learning to fear a mighty GOD!

I continues to fast and pray. The Jewish boss I worked for kept calling me into his office and he hated to have to tell me to quit telling the foremen on my jobs that there were angels all around them. They were uncomfortable but so was my boss because I was a very successful landscape Designer and my division carried that huge company and kept them in the black.

I had a meeting to sign a major contract for services and I was to meet the president of one of the largest Insurance companies in the world. I was nervous. I had already made a successful presentation to I. M. Pei and was sure I could handle this. I was escorted into the conference room and seated with my back to the door. I waited for about 10 minutes and then I heard the door open and someone enter, but they did not come forward. I started to turn and look and then all of a sudden I heard crying. The crying was sobbing now and it was loud. I was astonished and I made faces to myself in unbelief. I didn't know what to do. I didn't turn around. I sat there with the contract on the table and a pen in my right hand.

Then, the person started coming closer slowly closer all the while sobbing. Finally she stood beside me, she was the President of the company. The sobbing became louder and at the same time, my right hand, the one holding the pen started to involuntarily bounce up and down vertically about 2 or three inches. I tried to stop it, I couldn't, in fact it got worse and finally it was flying up and down wildly so badly, I grabbed it with my other hand but could not control it. As I did that, I felt my head go back and a voice that was not mine came out of my mouth and for about a full minute this voice in a language I did not know spoke to this woman. When it stopped, it let me go and as I collapsed down, I quickly raised myself up and grabbed the woman and said, "please lady, don't tell my boss about this". She said to me, don't worry, that is the message I have been waiting to hear from GOD for many years." She asked where I went to church. I told her and said I was on my way there now and that I would pray for her. She said oh no, I am going with you. She came out of the water that day speaking in an unknown tongue.

I asked her what was the message and this is what she told me. She had married a man and was Baptist. She had been studying the Bible and felt from what she had read that one had to be baptized in Jesus name and be filled with the Holy Ghost to be saved. her husband did not agree and they argued bitterly about it for years to the point of destroying the marriage. The message she was given strait from GOD through my mouth was this. "Unless you is born of the water and the spirit, you will never enter the kingdom of GOD. You must be believe that Jesus is the son of GOD and be baptized in water in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in a new tongue".

The miracles just keep on coming.......

I was tired and my back hurt. I thought I was sitting at the drawing table for too many hours, but nothing relieved it. I finally went to the doctor. I drove them crazy for a week as they ran test after test. I witnessed, I couldn't shut up, those doctors and nurses had a clear picture of my belief in God. I was told to come back next Tuesday for the results. I felt awful and was having a hard time walking, but I went to church the following Sunday. Just as we sat down, my preacher came out and said " I am sorry to be late, I was caught up in prayer and GOD told me we must believe him for a miracle today or someone here would die soon. He preached a message of faith that was so strong you could feel the wind of the Holy Spirit blow in the building, it was what is commonly known as a "barn burner".

He then called me down to the alter. Again, I was mortified and a little confused. He said, God has told me that we are to pray for you and you will be healed this day. I didn't know what I was being healed of, I felt bad, but I was game. He placed the oil on my head and started praying. I had my eye's closed and someone came up from behind me and wrapped their arms around me as they prayed for me. I thought that was so kind. As he prayed I sort of went somewhere because as I came back into reality, the sounds of the congregation was at first far away and then it was as if I was there again.

I am not sure how long he prayed but it didn't seem to be very long. I thought the prayer was ending so I opened my eye's I wanted to thank that sweet person for putting their arms around me and praying for me. When I opened my eye's there was no one there. The little prayer warrior lady that always sat on the front row came over to me and said, "I know GOD healed you because I saw him hold you in his arms". The church was screaming and the people were saying look at her, look at her. My body had changed. I had color again and could stand up strait and I had no pain anywhere. We all just leaped and danced and had a good old time.

Now it was Tuesday and I was to go back for my test results. I didn't go till Wednesday, I was busy. The nurse asked if my husband was with me and to go get him because the doctor wants to see both of us. I went and got him. The doctor said, you have stage 4 uterine cancer visible to the naked eye. We have scheduled surgery for tomorrow.

I said to the doctor. I went to church on Sunday and GOD healed me. He was outraged and said I did not understand that I was terminally ill. I said, "no I am not terminally ill, GOD has healed me. The doctor said "will you let me re-run these tests, I will pay for them myself to prove this to you. I agreed. The doctor and nurse came into the room to re examine me and to take the samples. As they got into the exam, I heard the nurse say OMG, and at the same time the doctor started crying. Then the nurse started crying and I set up and looked at them. The doctor said" your cancer was visible to both of us, it had eaten through to the cervix and now IT IS ALL WELL AND YOU ARE WHOLE. I left his office and that was 1980.

I was driving my Volvo from Wiley Texas to Dallas. I was going 60 miles per hour, enjoying the day. I saw the big windbreak of trees that were planted during the dust bowl days to break the wind so as to not blow away the topsoil. All of a sudden someone tapped me on my right shoulder very hard three time. I freaked! Someone had to be in my back seat. I quickly turned to look and in doing so, my foot came off the gas. There was no one there. I turned around and there was freight train doing 60 miles per hour or more. I threw on my brakes, no I stood on my brakes and thank GOD for A Volvo. The brakes locked up but the car did not swerve. Everything went into slow motion and there was no sound. The car had braked all it could brake and was now just floating with momentum and there was nothing I could do. The car slowly came to a stop not a foot from that freight train that was still barreling through the plains. Praise GOD.

If any of you have an interest in the rest of the story and the many other amazing miracles, let me know and I will post another chapter.

M House
01-18-2009, 11:25 PM
So um you guys went from hurling religious bricks and condemning each-other to this.... It's like the good, bad, and ugly of religion all rolled into one. O well if it keeps you fighting for your life and making a decent decision or two whatever you believe in is fine by me.

Theocrat
01-18-2009, 11:28 PM
So um you guys went from hurling religious bricks and condemning each-other to this.... It's like the good, bad, and ugly of religion all rolled into one. O well if it keeps you fighting for your life and making a decent decision or two whatever you believe in is fine by me.

What are your religious views?

M House
01-18-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't have any if you want to call me an atheist, it's cool. I place even less value on it after reading this thread.

Theocrat
01-18-2009, 11:33 PM
I don't have any if you want to call me an atheist, it's cool. I place even less value on it after reading this thread.

I figured you were an "atheist," but nonetheless, God doesn't believe in "atheists." ;)

M House
01-18-2009, 11:38 PM
I figured you were an "atheist," but nonetheless, God doesn't believe in "atheists." ;)

Did you and I somehow reach a level of respect and understanding?

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 11:43 PM
I figured you were an "atheist," but nonetheless, God doesn't believe in "atheists." ;)

Then why did "he" make them? :eek:;)

Theocrat
01-18-2009, 11:44 PM
Did you and I somehow reach a level of respect and understanding?

I suppose so.

M House
01-18-2009, 11:46 PM
I think we'll leave it at that for a bit. :)

Theocrat
01-18-2009, 11:49 PM
Then why did "he" make them? :eek:;)

God did not create "atheists." They suppress the truth which they know about God in their own hearts, even though God has made His existence abundantly clear to all men (Romans 1). They would rather believe there is no God than look at the evidence and submit to the truth of God. God has given all men a knowledge to know good from evil, found by our consciences, so that we are without excuse.

However, "atheists" still show that they believe in God whenever they assume regularity in nature in order to attain natural science, as if there is a Being Who created constants and uniformity in our universe. "Atheists" also show that they believe in a God when they make appeals to objective moral standards by judging the actions of others as either "right" or "wrong." So, there are really no such things as "atheists."

heavenlyboy34
01-18-2009, 11:53 PM
I forsee one of our objectivist friends coming in to rant against this any time now. You have been warned. :eek:
God did not create "atheists." They suppress the truth which they know about God in their own hearts, even though God has made His existence abundantly clear to all men (Romans 1). They would rather believe there is no God than look at the evidence and submit to the truth of God. God has given all men a knowledge to know good from evil, found by our consciences, so that we are without excuse.

However, "atheists" still show that they believe in God whenever they assume regularity in nature in order to attain natural science, as if there is a Being Who created constants and uniformity in our universe. "Atheists" also show that they believe in a God when they make appeals to objective moral standards by judging the actions of others as either "right" or "wrong." So, there are really no such things as "atheists."

asimplegirl
01-18-2009, 11:58 PM
Glory to God! Thank you my sister-in-Christ for your witness! May the Lord always shine His love upon you and your husband!

Thank you, and you're welcome.

God has blessed me.

M House
01-19-2009, 12:00 AM
Possibly but I actually see something respectable about Theo, her/him, in the post. Theo uses actions and reason to judge. This is alot better the BE claims of religion being the foundation of moral standards. Or maybe it's the same concept, I just didn't see it that way.

Theocrat
01-19-2009, 12:00 AM
I forsee one of our objectivist friends coming in to rant against this any time now. You have been warned. :eek:

Bring it on.

hypnagogue
01-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Mitt, I'm holding you responsible for the bullshit in this thread.

heavenlyboy34
01-19-2009, 12:09 AM
Mitt, I'm holding you responsible for the bullshit in this thread.

lol

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 12:41 AM
Asimplegirl, you have been put through a test. Do not let the sins of men who have been prompted by Satan stand between you and GOD.

Yes, and I chose God. Not just any God...but, a God who is loving and understanding..This is the way I read God in the Bible. Sure he is vengeant sometimes, but typically, you act right, and be a good person, and you have no reason to fear. I do not condone a God who fills his/her followers with fear and guilt to do the right things, and not to follow their hearts, but someone else's understanding of what he wants. If that is what others believe they can...though I don't condone it, I will not condemn it- that's not between me and you. That's between me and God.

You must resist choosing a religion because you hear what you want to hear, the Bible calls that "itching ears". People with itching ears want a GOD and a religion that sounds the way they want it to be. Life is not always fair but if you stand the test, GOD will bring you through to the other side of your experience with wisdom and blessings.

I did. I chose a religion because I felt it right, which is what we all should do. I had no itching ears...I guess you could day I had an itching heart. :) He did bring me through, by the help of a roommate, and the love of my husband, who has a servant's heart.

Chapter 1.

I was raised in a hideous little religion in east Texas known as Southern Baptist. My grandfather was the pastor. We were not allowed to go swimming in mixed company or dance or anything else, such as go to the movies or go to hell as my grandfather said.

Yeah, I grew up like that, but also add, no jewelry, including wedding rings, no cutting of the hair, no short sleeves, no clothing that showed any skin, no music that was not religious, no bad thoughts, because you would still be guilty of the crime, even if you just thought it and did not act upon it... this explains the belief that just BEING gay and not acting on it sends you to hell. No afterschool activities like sports, no nothing.

I knew from early in my life there was a GOD. The reason I know this is my father had to start locking me in my room at night because he woke up twice and found me outside sitting on a big oak stump in a golden ball of light. He would run out of the house and yell my name and the light would go away and I would say to him, Daddy, I was talking to Jesus"! I was two years old.

I believe what you have is called "mental instability", not religion.

My father hated all religions. His father, my grandfather had been a circuit riding Elmer Gantry type of preacher that left his family alone during the depression sometimes for a year as he road the circuit preaching. The depression took my fathers brothers and sisters to starvation and he of course blamed his sorry christian father.

He should've.


I grew up in a cult type Baptist church and would ride my horse and ask GOD to please show me you are real, can you please make that tree fall. Of course no tree fell and i continued to be confused. Blessed are those that believe and have not seen.

I married my first millionaire and then discovered two weeks later he was gay,I divorced him. My Grandfather informed me that I could no longer be saved and go to heaven. I rebelled and decided to live it up. I married another wealthy man and whooped it up world wide and after I spent all the money I wanted and had everything a person could ever want in this life, I again turned myself to this GOD search.

I trudged on and started an exhaustive search for GOD, the real one, the one I had heard miraculous stories about. I welcomed the Jehovah Witness, the Mormons, I traveled to Houston and discovered the perils of Transcendental Meditation and Eastern devil worship, but not before those devils tried to kill me. I started to lose weight and my eyes sunk in and my thoughts went back to suicide. This time I was successful.

You were? Are you a ghost?

My husband came home from work unexpectedly and rushed me to the hospital. I could feel nothing and from the time he placed me on the car seat, the next thing I remembered vividly was a nurse telling the Doctor to just let me die, after all she said, I tried to kill myself and didn't deserve to live. I was stunned at this but still did not comprehend that I was technically dead.

You weren't if you could hear her. The laws of science still apply to those in a religious search.

I could see nothing, I was in a very dark place, could not see my hand in front of me but I felt very comfortable.

I heard the nurse say "we are loosing her" "her blood pressure is 50 over 40, her lips are turning blue" "The nurse said her face is turning black" shall we call her at 3:25? I was still not understanding that I was dying or dead. All I could think of is how cold that nurse was towards me. I heard the Doctor tell my husband "it's no use, she is gone". My husband was a very prominent man and he screamed to that Doctor to bring her back. The Doctor kept trying to resusitate and then I felt a presence beside me.

I was waiting on this part.

I slowly turned to look at what I felt and there are no words to describe what I saw. There was what could only be called a demon standing within 3 feet of me and he was reaching for me and as he touched me, I screamed the most blood curdling scream that I thought could be heard around the world. I awoke and could see the doctors startled face and I would grab him and I would beg him to not make me go back to.... and then I would be back wrestling with this most horrendous and foul smelling thing.

This went own for almost an hour. I checked myself into a mental hospital and agreed to be treated for depression. I had two precious babies and feared I would do something stupid unless I got this thing under control. I also had a healthy fear of death now for I had experienced the other side and if any body tells you there is no hell or demons, don't you believe it.

Well, I feel no pity for you. You had children and tried to kill yourself? Are you that selfish?

A friend in Dallas heard of my plight and traveled to the Hospital and there, I finally got a peek of who this God was and how much he loved me. This man told me some simple truths of the Bible and somehow imparted to me the love of GOD and then he left. He was a Baptist. There appeared a gold glowing light in my room and I devoured the literature he gave me and for that day, the Holy Spirit kept a glowing presence for the nurses said they were unable to enter my room.

Can you provide the number to this hospital to check your story? I simply feel that you, like many people in this world are stretching the truth... much more than it should be stretch, and is more than unbelievable.

I left the hospital a week later and looked like another person from the one who came in a month earlier. I had gained 30 lbs in 1 week which is impossible and I looked rosy cheeked and healthy and I was.

30 lbs in one week? Okay, sure.

I left my husband and move far away.

So, this God told you to leave your marraige, even though you had sworn to be with him until death do you part?? I never heard you claim he beat you, or was mean to you, actually he sounded like a good man. And you had children with him... was their happiness with both their parents not important to you?

I wanted to leave all those memories and the little town that had treated me so badly. I am a half breed Indian and that is another story. I studied more of the word of GOD and I would pray to him, please don't let me lost. Please show me the truth Lord, please don't let me go to that place again when I die.

And, you couldn't leave with your family?

I will interject here that GOD will bring the truth to you if you ask him too. I didn't know that then, but I do now. For those that are serious in your heart, he will make sure you hear the truth, but he respects your free will to deny it.

I worked in the clothing Industry in Dallas selling Coutre' clothing.

Really?? Because that isn't even how you spell Couture.. but go ahead dig yourself deeper.

I was drop dead beautiful and had a job that paid a fortune.

So, selfish and vain, as well as ungrateful?

I took my kids to the Texas state fair. I walked along in a large room looking at different booths that went on for miles. I was walking along and I heard a male voice say to me, go over to that man and ask him for a job. I looked at that booth and laughed out loud. I said "no way" I have a great job, and went on my way. In a few more minutes, I heard the same voice say the same thing again and I looked and there was that same man and the same booth. I walked over to the man and said a voice told me to ask you for a job. He said o.K., your hired. $500 a month plus commission selling storm doors and windows. I was stunned, but took the job!

The first week I worked there, the door opened and there he stood, the love of my life and my future husband. I knew it when I saw him, we were married 6 months later. He was raised United Pentecostal. I went to his church with him and sometimes he would go to my Baptist church. After we were married though, he insisted that we go to his church and I didn't care, I thought they were all the same. My Grandmother did warn me not to go to one of those tongue talking churches or I would burn in hell. I had already made a visit to hell and I was determined to find a way to avoid that in the future.

I was fortunate in that I went to a pentecostal church that did not preach the hair, makeup, pants thing. This preacher was a true man of GOD who knew that kind of cult legalism would turn people away from GOD as it did you asimplegirl. I never knew that my MOM was raised United pentecostal, she married my Dad and he made her swear to never bring it up again, especially to his children. She didn't.

I have been to that type of Pentecostal too, they teach the same core message, which is bull.
The Pentecostal religion is, in its teachings, a cult, under the mere definition of the word, but is not considered so because the Catholic church allows it to be such...research research, research.

My mother inlaw insisted I be re-baptized in the name of JESUS. I fought it. I was baptized several times in the name of father son and holy ghost and thought it should be enough. I could not get her to let it go, so I agreed. The night the preacher re-baptized me, he said I would come out of the water and I would speak in a new tongue. I wasn't buying it and said defiantly said to him, "and just what if I don't ". Sure enough I didn't and went own about my business.

A year later, a renouned evangelist had come to our church. The services was just beginning as we sat down on the back row of this huge church. This man was talking and my pastor was standing behind him. This man said " God has just told me that there is someone here who does not have the Holy Ghost". He pointed his finger and the masses of people started to move aside as he kept his finger pointed. He said, "you, the lady in the pink glasses". When I realized it was me, I was mortified. My pastor said no, brother so and so in blank Texas called me and said she was baptized a year ago. I said yes, I was baptized, but I have never spoken in tongues. My pastor could not believe his ears.

I do not believe you have to speak in tongues to have the spirit of God within you or go to hell...see? Same core message. You know, I was also taught growing up that the Pentecostal Church was the only real true church of God, but that is not true, but feel free to believe it .

I relunctently walked down to the front of the Church. The evangelist said this " I want you to raise your hands in praise to GOD and say Halleluyah which is the highest form of praise to GOD the father. I am then going to anoint your forehead in oil, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by the speaking in an unknown tongue". I was still not buying and flippantly held my hands up in praise and did as he instructed me. My eye's were closed, but the instant the oil hit my forehead, the power of GOD came up from my feet and was so strong, my arms flew up with such strength that my wedding ring flew off my finger. I was startled by that and opened my eye's and tried to say "did you see that"? each time I tried to speak, even though I knew what I was trying to say, another strange language would come out my mouth. I tried to hold my hand over my mouth to stop it and by that time everyone in the church was dying laughing at me. The evangelist said "don't try to stop the Holy spirit, this is the baptizim as spoken of in the upper room.

My life forever changed that day.

My sister told me to not tell Mom what had happened. Dad would be distraught to know I had become a holy roller. I didn't tell them. My sister called, she was very upset and a usually very stable person was talking suicide. She ask me this, "can what happened to you happen to me"? I told her to get in the car with her babies and drive strait to my house. I do not know why I also told her this. The Devil does not want you to know the truth or be saved. No matter what happens, do not stop or turn around, you must get here, me and the Pastor will be waiting. She called an hour later and said "I can't get there both the babies were fine when I left, but now both are vomiting in the back seat". I told her, "NO, you must get here. She did. She came out of the water speaking in the unknown tongue. Her children were not sick and as she drove home that day, she said the colors in the world looked totally different to her. Her world had changed too and she could not wait to tell her husband.

Her husband was southern baptist. When she told him what happened to her, he called the baptist preacher he came strait over. He kept her under a bright light all night and kept telling her that the Baptizm of tongues did not happen to her. Her husband forbade her to see me and I did not see or speak to my sister again for 10 years.

My Mother called me when my sister told her what had happened. My Mother told me of how she had been raised in the truth and gave it up and in tears asked if she could come to my house and be re-baptized. She came out of the water speaking in an unknown tongue and lived the next 30 years of her life in the presence of GOD and went on to be with him in 2001.


The next chapter of my life was miracle after miracle. I believed everything I read in the word. I was fasting and praying once a week. I was arguing with my mother about the baptism. I was planning on moving out of state to start another business. I was asking GOD for this and that. I was praying for my dying fish to be healed, why not, the word said I could. They weren't healed. Several of these type things had happened and all of a sudden I was mad at GOD. I went to pray that night of fasting and I told him he had lied to me and I wanted nothing else to do with this and left the church. I was feeling good about my decision.

I went to bed and early the next morning around 4 am, I felt a warm hand on my shoulder and I assumed it was one of my kids. I opened my eye's and saw no one. Now, I knew I felt that and I was like waiting to see if it would happen again. It did! I felt it, I opened my eye's and there, right there on my shoulder was a hand. A pale whitish colored hand. I quickly sat up and crossed my arms as if to say "I KNOW I SEE THIS"!! I watched the hand float away into the room and disappear,

Was there no arm? lol.

then I heard a voice, an audible voice that was male, is was soft with no accent of any kind. The voice said "JAMES 4". My shoulders dropped and I had a perplexed expression on my face for I truly did not understand the message. Then in a voice that sounded like the roaring waters of a giant waterfall and in booming loudness that sounded as if it could be heard around the world, the voice said "James 4 FOR I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD!!! I jumped from the bed and was running and screaming in place and my husband was still asleep. I jumped on him and rapidly told him of my plight. He was not phased. He said "go get the Bible, it is the book of James"

I ran and I got the Bible and I started reading James 4 and quickly my joy turned to sorrow for GOD told me off, chewed me up and spit me out. For those who want to read it, help yourself. I called my pastor and I was hysterical and he was laughing so hard he fell out of his bed. He calmed me down and said " GOD chastises those that he loves. He loves you and he has corrected you and count it all joy". I was learning to fear a mighty GOD!

I continues to fast and pray.

Maybe this is why you are hearing voices and seeing things. This happens when starved.

The Jewish boss I worked for kept calling me into his office and he hated to have to tell me to quit telling the foremen on my jobs that there were angels all around them. They were uncomfortable but so was my boss because I was a very successful landscape Designer and my division carried that huge company and kept them in the black.

I had a meeting to sign a major contract for services and I was to meet the president of one of the largest Insurance companies in the world. I was nervous. I had already made a successful presentation to I. M. Pei and was sure I could handle this. I was escorted into the conference room and seated with my back to the door. I waited for about 10 minutes and then I heard the door open and someone enter, but they did not come forward. I started to turn and look and then all of a sudden I heard crying. The crying was sobbing now and it was loud. I was astonished and I made faces to myself in unbelief. I didn't know what to do. I didn't turn around. I sat there with the contract on the table and a pen in my right hand.

Then, the person started coming closer slowly closer all the while sobbing. Finally she stood beside me, she was the President of the company. The sobbing became louder and at the same time, my right hand, the one holding the pen started to involuntarily bounce up and down vertically about 2 or three inches. I tried to stop it, I couldn't, in fact it got worse and finally it was flying up and down wildly so badly, I grabbed it with my other hand but could not control it. As I did that, I felt my head go back and a voice that was not mine came out of my mouth and for about a full minute this voice in a language I did not know spoke to this woman. When it stopped, it let me go and as I collapsed down, I quickly raised myself up and grabbed the woman and said, "please lady, don't tell my boss about this".

Sounds like you had a demon, lady...I would not be proud of that.


She said to me, don't worry, that is the message I have been waiting to hear from GOD for many years." She asked where I went to church. I told her and said I was on my way there now and that I would pray for her. She said oh no, I am going with you. She came out of the water that day speaking in an unknown tongue.

I asked her what was the message and this is what she told me. She had married a man and was Baptist. She had been studying the Bible and felt from what she had read that one had to be baptized in Jesus name and be filled with the Holy Ghost to be saved. her husband did not agree and they argued bitterly about it for years to the point of destroying the marriage. The message she was given strait from GOD through my mouth was this. "Unless you is born of the water and the spirit, you will never enter the kingdom of GOD. You must be believe that Jesus is the son of GOD and be baptized in water in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in a new tongue".

The miracles just keep on coming.......

I was tired and my back hurt. I thought I was sitting at the drawing table for too many hours, but nothing relieved it. I finally went to the doctor. I drove them crazy for a week as they ran test after test. I witnessed, I couldn't shut up, those doctors and nurses had a clear picture of my belief in God. I was told to come back next Tuesday for the results. I felt awful and was having a hard time walking, but I went to church the following Sunday. Just as we sat down, my preacher came out and said " I am sorry to be late, I was caught up in prayer and GOD told me we must believe him for a miracle today or someone here would die soon. He preached a message of faith that was so strong you could feel the wind of the Holy Spirit blow in the building, it was what is commonly known as a "barn burner".

He then called me down to the alter. Again, I was mortified and a little confused. He said, God has told me that we are to pray for you and you will be healed this day. I didn't know what I was being healed of, I felt bad, but I was game. He placed the oil on my head and started praying. I had my eye's closed and someone came up from behind me and wrapped their arms around me as they prayed for me. I thought that was so kind. As he prayed I sort of went somewhere because as I came back into reality, the sounds of the congregation was at first far away and then it was as if I was there again.

I am not sure how long he prayed but it didn't seem to be very long. I thought the prayer was ending so I opened my eye's I wanted to thank that sweet person for putting their arms around me and praying for me. When I opened my eye's there was no one there. The little prayer warrior lady that always sat on the front row came over to me and said, "I know GOD healed you because I saw him hold you in his arms". The church was screaming and the people were saying look at her, look at her. My body had changed. I had color again and could stand up strait and I had no pain anywhere. We all just leaped and danced and had a good old time.

Yep. Sounds like a Pentecostal church. Don't believe unless you go crazy...or else you do not know God. "WHAT??! You're acting logical!! You are talking too much sense?? Pray for this woman now!"

Now it was Tuesday and I was to go back for my test results. I didn't go till Wednesday, I was busy. The nurse asked if my husband was with me and to go get him because the doctor wants to see both of us. I went and got him. The doctor said, you have stage 4 uterine cancer visible to the naked eye. We have scheduled surgery for tomorrow.

I said to the doctor. I went to church on Sunday and GOD healed me. He was outraged and said I did not understand that I was terminally ill. I said, "no I am not terminally ill, GOD has healed me. The doctor said "will you let me re-run these tests, I will pay for them myself to prove this to you. I agreed. The doctor and nurse came into the room to re examine me and to take the samples. As they got into the exam, I heard the nurse say OMG, and at the same time the doctor started crying. Then the nurse started crying and I set up and looked at them. The doctor said" your cancer was visible to both of us, it had eaten through to the cervix and now IT IS ALL WELL AND YOU ARE WHOLE. I left his office and that was 1980.

I was driving my Volvo from Wiley Texas to Dallas. I was going 60 miles per hour, enjoying the day. I saw the big windbreak of trees that were planted during the dust bowl days to break the wind so as to not blow away the topsoil. All of a sudden someone tapped me on my right shoulder very hard three time. I freaked! Someone had to be in my back seat. I quickly turned to look and in doing so, my foot came off the gas. There was no one there. I turned around and there was freight train doing 60 miles per hour or more. I threw on my brakes, no I stood on my brakes and thank GOD for A Volvo. The brakes locked up but the car did not swerve. Everything went into slow motion and there was no sound. The car had braked all it could brake and was now just floating with momentum and there was nothing I could do. The car slowly came to a stop not a foot from that freight train that was still barreling through the plains. Praise GOD.

If any of you have an interest in the rest of the story and the many other amazing miracles, let me know and I will post another chapter.

No, that's okay. I have lived with people just like you....this is the reason I asked your religion. I knew you were Pentecostal.. Maybe that was God warning me not to believe anything you said, or you'd pull me back into that depressive abyss that is that religion.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 12:44 AM
By the way, fedup, you have just furthered my belief that people within the Pentecostal religion are suicidal, and depressed, and above all else kooky.

BTW, I have 5 friends from childhood I was very close to. All of them were Pentecostal. All went to different churches. All of them are now homosexual. Explain that.

M House
01-19-2009, 01:07 AM
Antagonizing another person for being depressed and suicidal, when you were once the very same way doesn't impress me much. I could give less than than a shit about religion at this point. The way I see you both are pretty damn wrong. Atleast, I'm seeing some people reaching for some concrete values here in their own kooky way I guess. Asimplegirl, you got every reason to be bitter at the Pentecostal church but I'm liking this approach at all. Anyway, I hope Fed here does get a more mature outlook on life than the devil makes you commit suicide. Your family seriously sounds like it has a major depression issue that needs to be addressed. Anyway, reading both your stories made me feel pretty uneasy when it came down to it.

hillbilly123069
01-19-2009, 01:16 AM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.

It's really a simple question to answer.Since all the christian faiths are spin off from the catholic church,and since the catholic church has withheld over 30 books of the bible from being published,it is best to focus on what Jesus said in his quotes and teachings.Beyond that,men have made it all but impossible to know exactly what Our Father's will is.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:19 AM
No, no antagonizing them for, but using it for furthering the agenda and pretending things happened to win over more people is just pathetic in my eyes.

As I have said before, I am more than offensive sometimes, nut I don't care. I am as good a person as I can be, and follow what my heart says, even if putting someone in their place sometimes is involved.

Well, sure it made you uneasy, hell, it made me uneasy.

I personally think that religion pushed me to the point I was pushed to. I consider myself Catholic as does my hubby, but we don't go to a church, and I probably won't be able to for a long time. I am very uncomfortable with churches, and don't like being in them.

Sorry, if I was antagonizing in your opinion. I knew from the start that fed was Pentecostal by using the whole, "one true religion" thing that I grew up hearing, and it pisses me off. I took out whatthat made me feel on them. While that may not be a good reason to actlike an ass, I did it anyway. Doesn't mean my God likes it.

Like I said, I try.

(BTW, who sits around and talks about religion?? I barely ever think about religion much...it just seems dumb to talk about.)

Ya'll hear about them finding the actual tree of life, not the one the church claims?

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:20 AM
It's really a simple question to answer.Since all the christian faiths are spin off from the catholic church,and since the catholic church has withheld over 30 books of the bible from being published,it is best to focus on what Jesus said in his quotes and teachings.Beyond that,men have made it all but impossible to know exactly what Our Father's will is.

so true. This is why I typically just focus on the ten commandments. Quick, to the point, easy to understand, hard to forget. :)

fedup100
01-19-2009, 12:24 PM
Simple, so sorry my story upset you so much. I have been around people like you in the past ( the nurse on the ER )and I am still shocked at the level of cold murderous indifference some people can have. I am also sorry you were not beautiful, but be glad for it is a sinful curse. I can see that your are trembling and foaming at the mouth with you response. " Demons tremble at the mention of his name "

As I have said many times, I believe we are in the end times and the anti-Christ has been loosed. There are many people who have not guarded themselves and they, as you, will be used to bring shame to our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can tell you don't go to church much or talk about GOD or religion much. Since you admit this then why are you the first dog to grab the throats of those who post on the religious threads? What is your agenda for it matches that of the one world church and the anti-christ for they teach that true Christians are "radicals":

The Antichrist Will Persecute The Body of Christ: The Muslim Antichrist with those in Islam, and the Judeo-Christian False Prophet with those in Judeo-Christian Organized Religion will attempt to annihilate the Body of Christ.

Scripture has proven that persecution can start instantly. Some of the "radical element" will be viewed by Organized Religion as "unlearned" and "ignorant."
The educated members of the "radical element" will be viewed as "insane."

As in Jesus' day, it will be alleged that this "radical element" is "demon possessed."

Matthew 11:18 (NIV) For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'

John 8:48-49 (NIV) The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?" 49 "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.

Matthew 24:9-10 (NIV) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

While GOD loves all people, not all will or can be saved. People can be used by demons and you must know this because your adopted "itching ears" religion has a whole division that does nothing but "exorcism". My first reaction to what you are was correct, your forum name would be fitting as "awolfinsheepsclothng".

Please call your local exorcist and ask him how many demons will praise Jesus in all things.

Acts:20

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. "

2 Timothy 2-5

" For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I am sorry you have had no miracles in your life. I honestly do not know why I have had so many. I always thought it was because I had a hard time hearing his "small still voice". I just assumed GOD had to hit me over the head to get my attention. Again, I believe GOD has put you to a test and you have failed it miserably, so have I.

As I read your amazing response to my life's story, I can see that you are are a raving anti-christian, I still only feel a sorrowful and calm pity for you. I have the full capacity to put you in your place and then some and you know it. I don't have to, you have done that to yourself.

I do not have to verify anything, my story is true and correct. The problem is it trumped yours, pride goeth before a fall. I read your story and felt empathy for you. You read my story and had murderous rage for me. You had to respond to try and tear down my story line by line.......move along people, she's a nut, a demon, don't look here, look over there......move along heh heh what a nut!!

You are a tool of the devil and I would not be surprised to find out you are paid disinfo agent placed here to disrupt and discourage.

You grieve the Holy Spirit.

Luke 6:22 (NIV) Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Simple, so sorry my story upset you so much. I have been around people like you in the past ( the nurse on the ER )and I am still shocked at the level of cold murderous indifference some people can have.

Funny I was thinking the same thing reading your firstfew posts.

I am also sorry you were not beautiful, but be glad for it is a sinful curse. I can see that your are trembling and foaming at the mouth with you response.

Nah, I am beautiful in my own way in my opinion. As far as what men think, they think much higher of my looks than I do. I don't see how it matters. Being vain is not something to be proud of, though.

" Demons tremble at the mention of his name "


Are you calling me a demon, because I am not trembling. In fact, I feel much stronger in my beliefs. Thanks for that.

As I have said many times, I believe we are in the end times and the anti-Christ has been loosed. There are many people who have not guarded themselves and they, as you, will be used to bring shame to our Lord Jesus Christ.

You can think what you want, and I will always defend your right to have your own thoughts. But, I believe as you have been told before, you should take the beam out of your eye.

I can tell you don't go to church much or talk about GOD or religion much.

No, I talk about God LOTS. I don't talk about religion much... It does not seem worth it.


Since you admit this then why are you the first dog to grab the throats of those who post on the religious threads? What is your agenda for it matches that of the one world church and the anti-christ for they teach that true Christians are "radicals":

I am not aware that I match anything of the anti christ, for he speaks against Christ. I am not against Christ. I am against using religion as a way to divide people instead of bringing them together.

The Antichrist Will Persecute The Body of Christ: [B] The Muslim Antichrist with those in Islam, and the Judeo-Christian False Prophet with those in Judeo-Christian Organized Religion will attempt to annihilate the Body of Christ.

See this green part? Where in the bible does it say this EXACTLY? Or is this just your understanding of it?

Scripture has proven that persecution can start instantly. Some of the "radical element" will be viewed by Organized Religion as "unlearned" and "ignorant."
The educated members of the "radical element" will be viewed as "insane."


Now notice I do not think your beliefs insane, nor what you stand for, even though I am against the message you teach personally. I simply think you running around talking about being in a ball of light, talking to people that are not there, seeing people and things that are not there are all kinda kooky. Do you disagree? What if I had experienced all of this through Catholicism? You'd think the same. This is not my judgment of your religion, or even of you personally, just your hatred of anyone different from you coupled with your extravagant claims.

As in Jesus' day, it will be alleged that this "radical element" is "demon possessed."

LOL. YOU are the one claiming other voices came out of you, speaking in another language, your body doing things you felt were uncontrollable. These are all signs of demon possession, correct?

And, you did claim that at one point you worship Satan. These small details reveal alot.

Matthew 11:18 (NIV) For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'
[COLOR="Red"]
You shouldn't quote verses you do not understand completely.
He was hallucinating. Of course they thought he had a demon, they did not understand the brain. Just like they did not understand how "anointing" someone with an oil made with cannabis flowers would cause the feeling of inspiration, and cause them to feel they had a deeper understanding of things.

John 8:48-49 (NIV) The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?" 49 "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.

I am not arguing John's claims. I am talking about yours. Don't be so full of yourself to place yourself on a level with the apostles.

Matthew 24:9-10 (NIV) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,


Once again. This was talking about when he was being sought out and crucified, to his apostles, not you. Do some studying. There are signs throughout the bible showing when certain books were written, and what things they were based on. Also, I am telling people to accept others, you, on the otherhand, are talking division, and hatred of other religions. Watch that beam.

While GOD loves all people, not all will or can be saved.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

People can be used by demons and you must know this because your adopted "itching ears" religion has a whole division that does nothing but "exorcism". My first reaction to what you are was correct, your forum name would be fitting as "awolfinsheepsclothng".


You would know wouldn't you? I will take the wolf thing as a compliment. I have nevergotten to think of myself as bad. This'll be fun. Who knew talking of love and acceptance of people, no matter religion was wrong? hm.

Please call your local exorcist and ask him how many demons will praise Jesus in all things.

Funny, I thought of you immediately, eh?

Acts:20

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. "

Again, do not speak of that which you do not know. Jesus was crucified for tax reasons. He stood against paying taxes to Ceasar. This was addressing the people of what the government would tell them after he was crucified to cover their own butts. Not you and me.

2 Timothy 2-5

" For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

You know, your religion seems to fit this well, also. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RELIGION, since they are all man made and based on fables, stories, history, some that can be proven some that cannot. ALL OF THEM.

I am sorry you have had no miracles in your life. I honestly do not know why I have had so many. I always thought it was because I had a hard time hearing his "small still voice". I just assumed GOD had to hit me over the head to get my attention.

I never said that I have had no miracles. Actually, I think I have had many "miracles", many people do and don't take the time to realize it, or how differently things could have worked out without a miracle. I just don't go around claiming a RELIGION did this, but that God did. I also find that things I hold dearly are not the business of perfect strangers.

Again, I believe GOD has put you to a test and you have failed it miserably, so have I.

Good thing you are not my judge, right?

As I read your amazing response to my life's story, I can see that you are are a raving anti-christian, I still only feel a sorrowful and calm pity for you.

Oh, no. I love Christianity. I am a raving anti- whatever you are. Just because I do not believe your certain brand of Christianity does not mean that I am anti- Christian.

I have the full capacity to put you in your place and then some and you know it. I don't have to, you have done that to yourself.

Okay, sure. Thanks, I guess.

I do not have to verify anything, my story is true and correct. The problem is it trumped yours, pride goeth before a fall.

Well, see my story was not put there to trump anyhting, and I could care less who believes it and who doesn't. It was simply the story of how I came to believe what I do. I am glad you feel so much pride in yourself. I just remember where I came from and give thanks every day for experiencing what I did.

I read your story and felt empathy for you. You read my story and had murderous rage for me.

No, I didn't feel rage, nor did I want to murder you. I actually laughed my way through it. Pausing to read to my husband who also yucked it up.

You had to respond to try and tear down my story line by line.......move along people, she's a nut, a demon, don't look here, look over there......move along heh heh what a nut!!

No, I was telling anyone to move on, or not pay attention to you. I was telling you how outrageous you sounded. NO one else. I never said you were a demon, or a nut. I was making fun of you, not accusing you.

You are a tool of the devil

Wow. So much for that not judging people thing, O Holy One, eh?

and I would not be surprised to find out you are paid disinfo agent placed here to disrupt and discourage.

A PAID DISINFO AGENT??! Holy cow lady, you are making yourself look crazy. LOL. Who is paying me to discourage the mountain of atheists here at RPF? The devil? The government?

You grieve the Holy Spirit.

Nah. I praise the Holy Spirit, I just don't make a show of it. It's more of a private thing for me.

Luke 6:22 (NIV) Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.



Agin, who is the one who is excluding other religions, insulting other religions as false, and calling them evil? Think about it juuuust a sec.

Also:

You do know that the Son of man was not even speaking of Jesus right? The term "Son of man" was referring to :


Son of man
(1.) Denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their
weakness and frailty (Job 25:6; Ps. 8:4; 144:3; 146:3; Isa.
51:12, etc.).

(2.) It is a title frequently given to the prophet Ezekiel,
probably to remind him of his human weakness.


Son of God, on the other hand, refers to Jesus.

Study, study, study.

TER
01-19-2009, 01:24 PM
Agin, who is the one who is excluding other religions, insulting other religions as false, and calling them evil? Think about it juuuust a sec.

Also:

You do know that the Son of man was not even speaking of Jesus right? The term "Son of man" was referring to :


Son of God, on the other hand, refers to Jesus.

Study, study, study.


I'm at work now so I don't have the time to fully respond, but the Son of Man most certainly does refer to the Lord Jesus Christ, the God-man.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:30 PM
Well, yes, roughly translated into English. Originally, it was meant to refer to Ezekiel and to the common men Jesus held to high esteem to remind him that though he was held at said esteem, he was still merely man. Go ahead, read the verses provided. It will show you a little of what I mean.

Certain religions interpret these wordings to mean different things. Like I have said before, the bible has been translated countless times, and been interpreted trillions of times by man. Or pardon the pun, son of man.

I am one of those that trust the translations I found myself, and not those taught to me. You can think they stand for whatever.

Oh, well. This thread has been majorly boring for about two days now, and has done nothing for morale around this joint, so I think...yeah, I may just be done with it. hmph.

Guess we will see, huh?

Nirvikalpa
01-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Religion can not be wrong; only the people that follow it that take it out of context and use it for their own selfish agenda.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Guess we just found out, eh??

Thank you give.me.liberty.

Finally some brains. Love the sig BTW.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:44 PM
Oh, yeah. Thought you may need to be informed, in case you haven't noticed, fedup:

I do not jump into religious threads more than anyone else. I am merely as post whore who posts in almost ANY thread more than anyone else. It's a symptom of boredom.

Ask anyone. :D

Uriel999
01-19-2009, 01:49 PM
Mitt, I'm holding you responsible for the bullshit in this thread.

Notice how he has disappeared from posting in this thread too? Mitt Romney's sideburns is a troll!!! :D


Religion can not be wrong; only the people that follow it that take it out of context and use it for their own selfish agenda.

But what if the religion is wrong? Or the religion is used within its context to achieve the goals of one's selfish agenda?

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 01:54 PM
But what if the religion is wrong? Or the religion is used within its context to achieve the goals of one's selfish agenda?

Religion can only be wrong to the individual, but not wrong to exist, since it is merely a belief system of things which some agree with. Everyone agrees with something. Right?

Uriel999
01-19-2009, 01:58 PM
Religion can only be wrong to the individual, but not wrong to exist, since it is merely a belief system of things which some agree with. Everyone agrees with something. Right?

Bah, we all know deep down the Church of the FSM is the correct faith!

PitViper
01-19-2009, 02:09 PM
right and wrong is the cause of war!

"I am right, you are wrong, therefore I can kill you!"

Right and wrong is the product of a divided mind. All things are relative from their perspective, do you think the germans of WWII thought they were doing evil? NO. They firmly believed that they were "Right". The rest of the world sure saw it as "Wrong"!

Live and let live

If everyone just let everyone else do what they want, so long as no one purposely harms another, war would die.

Usually the ones harming others are the ones enforcing their "right" beliefs on others!

http://www.individualism.asia/Pages/divinity.html

this link has a unique non denominational view.

Don't get mad, this is just an opinion! Grain of salt I say! We have to all UNITE regardless of religion, race, sex, nationality, social class etc,. etc. etc. There is no more time to bicker among ourselves.

UNCONDITIONALLY LOVE EVERYONE!!!! UNITE NOW!


*** If you believe your country is in jeopardy please fly your flags upside down ***

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 02:10 PM
crazy butt.







*** If you believe your country is in jeopardy please fly your flags upside down ***

I don;t own an American flag, oranything that has it on it. :)

heavenlyboy34
01-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Religion can not be wrong; only the people that follow it that take it out of context and use it for their own selfish agenda.

Were the Grecco-Roman religions wrong? :confused:;)

heavenlyboy34
01-19-2009, 02:15 PM
Notice how he has disappeared from posting in this thread too? Mitt Romney's sideburns is a troll!!! :D


pssst!! Bunchies told us that in last month's secret meeting, remember? ;)

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 02:16 PM
Maybe wrong for you? Not for the followers apparently, as they believed, and it correctly showed what they believed.

Fox McCloud
01-19-2009, 02:17 PM
wrong one:

whichever appears here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176007

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 02:18 PM
wrong one:

whichever appears here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176007

nuh-uh. Mine is right. ::huff::

Fox McCloud
01-19-2009, 02:21 PM
nuh-uh. Mine is right. ::huff::

said the woman who has an evil e-mustache :p

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 02:22 PM
an E- mustache. ::stomps::

Theocrat
01-19-2009, 02:25 PM
wrong one:

whichever appears here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=176007

The wrong one is whatever religion denies that God created the world (being triune in nature), that God covenanted Himself to a holy people that He may have relationship with His creatures forever, that God was manifested in the flesh and died on the cross for the sins of the world, that this same Man rose from the dead and is in Heaven ruling the nations on Earth by the power of His word and Spirit, and that those who reject such a God of love, redemption, and power shall inherit eternal punishment.

I guess that leaves only one religion, and that religion is the true religion, undefiled, unbreakable, and under dominion of God Himself. :)

heavenlyboy34
01-19-2009, 02:30 PM
The wrong one is whatever religion denies that God created the world (being triune in nature), that God covenanted Himself to a holy people that He may have relationship with His creatures forever, that God was manifested in the flesh and died on the cross for the sins of the world, that this same Man rose from the dead and is in Heaven ruling the nations on Earth by the power of His word and Spirit, and that those who reject such a God of love, redemption, and power shall inherit eternal punishment.

I guess that leaves only one religion, and that religion is the true religion, undefiled, unbreakable, and under dominion of God Himself. :)

I'm warning ya, you're gonna upset the joos, the muslims, and a whole bunch of others with that! :eek:

Fox McCloud
01-19-2009, 02:31 PM
I guess that leaves only one religion, and that religion is the true religion, undefiled, unbreakable, and under dominion of God Himself. :)

Yup, with Christ as the helm :)


That said, I was mostly being sarcastic and continuing on a joke started earlier.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
01-19-2009, 02:38 PM
Notice how he has disappeared from posting in this thread too? Mitt Romney's sideburns is a troll!!! :D

Nobody seemed to want to discuss anything I was talking about. I wanted people to start naming religions that were obviously wrong so we could work through this problem backwards.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 02:43 PM
lol. But if we don't believe any of them are wrong, what do we say?

I am sorry, sideburns. Um.... Pentecostal? (just because I disagree with the message from them more than any other.. yes, than ANY other.)

Theocrat
01-19-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm warning ya, you're gonna upset the joos, the muslims, and a whole bunch of others with that! :eek:

The truth hurts sometimes.

pacelli
01-19-2009, 02:50 PM
The miracle of random selection.

fedup100
01-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Well, yes, roughly translated into English. Originally, it was meant to refer to Ezekiel and to the common men Jesus held to high esteem to remind him that though he was held at said esteem, he was still merely man. Go ahead, read the verses provided. It will show you a little of what I mean.

Where do you get this dribble! Please turn the book right side up and put down the crack pipe. WAKE-UP! WAKE-UP! WAKE-UP![/COLOR]

[COLOR="Red"]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Certain religions interpret these wordings to mean different things. Like I have said before, the bible has been translated countless times, and been interpreted trillions of times by man. Or pardon the pun, son of man.

That's right GOD has no control whatsoever as to his word. He gives you free will to go out and by a HOLYHOAX Bible and fill your mindless self with the false word. He allowed it, you choose it and you will pay the price.

I am one of those that trust the translations I found myself, and not those taught to me. You can think they stand for whatever.

Yeah, anything goes to get to the great beyond. One guy can go because he tried to be good. Another can go because he was trying hard......yeah that is what Jesus dies for, so you could decide what is required to make it to Heaven, after all, you are GOD right.

Oh, well. This thread has been majorly boring for about two days now, and has done nothing for morale around this joint, so I think...yeah, I may just be done with it. hmph.

Guess we will see, huh?

yeah, you really are finished more than you will ever know.

I know this is wasted on a godless obot shill but there are some people who truly want to know so here goes.

As far as salvation = calling upon the name of the Lord. You are walking a rickity bridge raving wolf. Unless you have believed and you have been buried in Baptism in his name and filled with the Holy Ghost, he will not answer you for you are not his sheep.

You will not find salvation in the Matthew, John, Luke or Mark except for the last page where Christ himself tells you what you must do to be saved just before he ascend into heaven. The reason is simple, Jesus was not dead and resurrected when those books were written.

They are mostly all the same and a bio of Jesus's life prior to the crucifixion. Besides, none of the diciples would tell you to do one thing in this book to be saved and then switch it to something else in another book. For the most part, the term all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved was nothing more than a shortcut term as the speaker was talking to believers that had already did the other things required for salvation.

Peter would never have told the tall group, all you have to do is call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved, and then tell the short group, you must believe and be baptised and filled with the spirit to be saved. To do so would mean that GOD was a respecter of persons and he is not.

Again, there is only one faith, one God, One Baptism and there are no shortcuts.

The Bible has three testaments, not two. There are three dispensations in the book. The first one was in the old Testament and it was the old law and applied only to the jews, no one will find salvation in the old testament that is alive today, it does not apply to you for Christ fulfilled that law for you.

The second testament is that small portion of the new testament prior to his death and resurrection where John the Baptist ushered in his coming and all people then in that dispensation were baptised in the name of JOHN.

That is why you or any one alive today can not quote those verses as far as salvation. Try telling that to the Baptist Church. Jesus himself was immersed in water and he was baptised in the Jordan river by John the Baptist and in the name of JOHN (the baptist).

GOD almighty who walked the earth had to bow to the rules of water baptism and the in filling of the Holy Ghost ( the dove that landed on his head). This is not a suggestion by the way, it is mandatory!

After his ascension the diciples went into the earth to preach the good news. This begins in the book of Acts, this is the third dispensation and the one we live under today.

Peter came across a group of people and he asked how they had been baptised and they said in the name of JOHN. Peter told them that they would all have to be re-baptised in the name of Jesus and they would now be filled with the Holy Ghost since the comforter had been sent back to dwell in the true believers.

By the way, every word I wrote was true how dare you say I made it up. Keep attacking me and spewing your false truths wolf, but beware, touch not my anointed, God will defend his own. Get thee behind me satan.

REMEMBER !!! WAKE-UP! WAKE-UP!!!

P.S., I am not Pentecostal. I do not believe in their legalism, there belief as far as salvation is spot on. I do not go to any church for most if not all do not preach the true word of GOD, just like you.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 03:55 PM
That's right GOD has no control whatsoever as to his word. He gives you free will to go out and by a HOLYHOAX Bible and fill your mindless self with the false word. He allowed it, you choose it and you will pay the price.

Once again, the only bible I have ever owned is King James version.

Are you calling your own bible false?

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 03:57 PM
Get thee behind me satan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WewLRxOrfZo

Here's your pentecostal. LOL.



Where do you get this dribble! Please turn the book right side up and put down the crack pipe. WAKE-UP! WAKE-UP! WAKE-UP!

Drivel, not dribble.

Remember study, study, study.


You will not find salvation in the Matthew, John, Luke or Mark except for the last page where Christ himself tells you what you must do to be saved just before he ascend into heaven. The reason is simple, Jesus was not dead and resurrected when those books were written.

The book of Mathew, after the intro of the beatitudes was written after the crucifixion and resurrection...It's all there hun. Remember these books were not written and compiled as this was happening. It was later written and compiled. Reading comprehension is all the rage these days, I hear.


They are mostly all the same and a bio of Jesus's life prior to the crucifixion. Besides, none of the diciples would tell you to do one thing in this book to be saved and then switch it to something else in another book. For the most part, the term all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved was nothing more than a shortcut term as the speaker was talking to believers that had already did the other things required for salvation.

According to Christ, salvation and entry into heaven are completely opposite. Try again.


To do so would mean that GOD was a respecter of persons and he is not.

According to YOUR religion.

priest_of_syrinx
01-19-2009, 04:00 PM
As far as salvation = calling upon the name of the Lord. You are walking a rickity bridge raving wolf. Unless you have believed and you have been buried in Baptism in his name and filled with the Holy Ghost, he will not answer you for you are not his sheep.
Here's a question that has been burning in me for a long time:

Why would God create a being if He knows that He will condemn it to hell?

fedup100
01-19-2009, 04:00 PM
Once again, the only bible I have ever owned is King James version.

Are you calling your own bible false?

You wrote" I am one of those that trust the translations I found myself, and not those taught to me. You can think they stand for whatever.



Spin it, no one will notice!

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 04:11 PM
You wrote" I am one of those that trust the translations I found myself, and not those taught to me. You can think they stand for whatever.



Spin it, no one will notice!

Yes, the translations. As in, I have translated, so I know how to READ IT. Not, I only read something else. Go back, you will see where I said I have only read KJV, and where I told you exactly how and why I translated- to find the common usage of terminology and words at that time.

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 04:13 PM
Here's a question that has been burning in me for a long time:

Why would God create a being if He knows that He will condemn it to hell?

Because he loves us, and allows us to do as we choose. It is very easy to make it to heaven. You must be almost COMPLETELY EVIL to make it to hell. Of course, fed will tell you nearly everyone is going to hell. Especially if you don't repent, aren't baptized, or don't speak in tongues.

Oh, and make sure you are forgiven for everything before you die. Little things can prevent you form getting into heaven, too!

heavenlyboy34
01-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Because he loves us, and allows us to do as we choose. It is very easy to make it to heaven. You must be almost COMPLETELY EVIL to make it to hell. Of course, fed will tell you nearly everyone is going to hell. Especially if you don't repent, aren't baptized, speak in tongues.

Oh, and make sure you are forgiven for everything before you die. Little things can prevent you form getting into heaven, too!

I can't speak in tongues? Что?!! Блин. Нехорошо. :(

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 04:17 PM
oh, i meant you HAVE to speak in tongues.

Fixed.

fedup100
01-19-2009, 04:31 PM
Here's a question that has been burning in me for a long time:

Why would God create a being if He knows that He will condemn it to hell?

He created all of us in his image and gave us free will God was like a Ron Paul, he believed the human should be totally free. Secondly, he created us because he was lonely and he wanted us to love him, but, he wanted you to love him of your own free will, not out of fear.

The whole Satan, creation thing is complex, but because Satan and a third of the angels rebelled, he had to put in certain things or rules in order for any man to make it.

GOD was so concerned about this very thing that he stepped down off his thrown and said, that's enough of this, I will go down there, I will be the blood sacrifice needed to save all of man kind. He tricked Satan into killing him, now the perfect lambs blood was placed on the mercy seat and the curtains that hid GOD from mankind was torn down the middle and GOD was now available to all men, directly, without a rabbi or priest or anything to stand in the way to that access.

He made salvation so simple and easy it is startling. He only asked you to believe and be baptised in the name of the one who died for you and you would be given the gift of ever lasting life even though you did nothing to deserve it.

The problem is organized religions, they have made all the man made rules and laws and they have made it appear complicated in order to be in control and rob you blind of your money as well as your soul. They have codified salvation much in the same way the common law was codified by attorney's and now you cannot go to court and defend yourself.

Satan wont be found in the whorehouses and bars, he dwells in the man made religious buildings stirring the pot of confusion and twisting the word of GOD.

Why do you think so many Priests and preachers are caught in sexual sin?

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 04:37 PM
He only asked you to believe and be baptised in the name of the one who died for you and you would be given the gift of ever lasting life even though you did nothing to deserve it.

Told ya.


The problem is organized religions, they have made all the man made rules and laws and they have made it appear complicated in order to be in control and rob you blind of your money as well as your soul.

ALL ARE MAN MADE. Pentecostal included.


Satan wont be found in the whorehouses and bars, he dwells in the man made religious buildings stirring the pot of confusion and twisting the word of GOD.

Like Pentecostal churches?


Why do you think so many Priests and preachers are caught in sexual sin?

So, you follow your own interpretation of scripture also, and do not go to church?

fedup100
01-19-2009, 05:24 PM
Quote:
He only asked you to believe and be baptised in the name of the one who died for you and you would be given the gift of ever lasting life even though you did nothing to deserve it.
Told ya.

wth!

Quote:
The problem is organized religions, they have made all the man made rules and laws and they have made it appear complicated in order to be in control and rob you blind of your money as well as your soul.
ALL ARE MAN MADE. Pentecostal included.

uh yeah, and catholic and all of them, I didn't stutter!

Quote:
Satan wont be found in the whorehouses and bars, he dwells in the man made religious buildings stirring the pot of confusion and twisting the word of GOD.
Like Pentecostal churches and all the other ones, please turn your head when you spew the pea soup!?

Quote:
Why do you think so many Priests and preachers are caught in sexual sin?
So, you follow your own interpretation of scripture also, and do not go to church?

That's what I said

Who asked you anyway?

asimplegirl
01-19-2009, 05:43 PM
Quote:
He only asked you to believe and be baptised in the name of the one who died for you and you would be given the gift of ever lasting life even though you did nothing to deserve it.
Told ya.

wth!

Quote:
The problem is organized religions, they have made all the man made rules and laws and they have made it appear complicated in order to be in control and rob you blind of your money as well as your soul.
ALL ARE MAN MADE. Pentecostal included.

uh yeah, and catholic and all of them, I didn't stutter!

Yep, all of em. That means Pentecostal is also just an interpretation by MAN.

Quote:
Satan wont be found in the whorehouses and bars, he dwells in the man made religious buildings stirring the pot of confusion and twisting the word of GOD.
Like Pentecostal churches and all the other ones, please turn your head when you spew the pea soup!?

I don't go to a church. Something you have already put me down for, or don't you remember?

Quote:
Why do you think so many Priests and preachers are caught in sexual sin?
So, you follow your own interpretation of scripture also, and do not go to church?

That's what I said

You spoke of being healed in a church, calling your preacher, getting your sisterto meetwith the preacher, etc. When you were baptized last, since you believe you must be to go to heaven, were you baptized by a preacher?

You know, according to Pentecostal religion, if you are not in church, you are "backslidden"

Who asked you anyway?

Um. You did when you came in and got to put down every religion but the Pentecostal one, which you have now back peddled enough to pretend that you claimed all along was man made, which is what I have been arguing the entire time. I have the right to defend what I believe, just like you.

Pennsylvania
01-21-2009, 10:42 AM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.

Assuming I can bend the word "right" here to mean morally right, I think I would almost instantly dismiss Islam as the least right religion. The Quran, I think, includes examples of unparalleled intolerance, towards all "disbelievers", but is also directly hostile towards Jews and Christians. Calling Islam a "peaceful religion" is, to say the least, a gross error on the part of Islamic apologists.

Intolerance in the Quran (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html)

Allah really has it out for women too (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/women/long.html)

Grimnir Wotansvolk
01-21-2009, 10:49 AM
He created all of us in his image and gave us free will God was like a Ron Paul, he believed the human should be totally free. Secondly, he created us because he was lonely and he wanted us to love him, but, he wanted you to love him of your own free will, not out of fear.

The whole Satan, creation thing is complex, but because Satan and a third of the angels rebelled, he had to put in certain things or rules in order for any man to make it.

GOD was so concerned about this very thing that he stepped down off his thrown and said, that's enough of this, I will go down there, I will be the blood sacrifice needed to save all of man kind. He tricked Satan into killing him, now the perfect lambs blood was placed on the mercy seat and the curtains that hid GOD from mankind was torn down the middle and GOD was now available to all men, directly, without a rabbi or priest or anything to stand in the way to that access.

He made salvation so simple and easy it is startling. He only asked you to believe and be baptised in the name of the one who died for you and you would be given the gift of ever lasting life even though you did nothing to deserve it.

The problem is organized religions, they have made all the man made rules and laws and they have made it appear complicated in order to be in control and rob you blind of your money as well as your soul. They have codified salvation much in the same way the common law was codified by attorney's and now you cannot go to court and defend yourself.

Satan wont be found in the whorehouses and bars, he dwells in the man made religious buildings stirring the pot of confusion and twisting the word of GOD.

Why do you think so many Priests and preachers are caught in sexual sin?

dungeons and dragons is so much more fun than this

PatriotLegion
01-21-2009, 10:53 AM
All religions are wrong.

acptulsa
01-21-2009, 10:56 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1912148&postcount=134

TER
01-21-2009, 10:57 AM
Here's a question that has been burning in me for a long time:

Why would God create a being if He knows that He will condemn it to hell?

God does not condemn anyone to hell. We condemn ourselves to hell through our own sinful passions.

heavenlyboy34
01-21-2009, 11:00 AM
God does not condemn anyone to hell. We condemn ourselves to hell through our own sinful passions.

This assumes that individuals are sovereign beings. You've also made the claim that God intervenes in our daily lives/decisions(unless I have you confused with another poster). How do you reconcile these two concepts?:confused:

TER
01-21-2009, 11:04 AM
This assumes that individuals are sovereign beings. You've also made the claim that God intervenes in our daily lives/decisions(unless I have you confused with another poster). How do you reconcile these two concepts?:confused:


Out of love, God created us to share in the divine nature, to forever grow in communion with Him, from glory to glory. In order for this to be true love, it must be given freely, which is why He graced us with free will. True love can only be given freely. And so, we were formed in His image and likeness. In His image meaning with free will and the capacity to create. In His likeness is to love and live righteously with our Creator and our neighbor.

TER
01-21-2009, 11:43 AM
This assumes that individuals are sovereign beings. You've also made the claim that God intervenes in our daily lives/decisions(unless I have you confused with another poster). How do you reconcile these two concepts?:confused:

Just as good parents help guide their children to do the right thing, likewise, our Father in heaven helps guide us in our daily lives when we allow Him to. And just as good parents know that in order for their children to grow as individuals they have to learn on their own (even if that means stumbling once in a while), likewise our Father in heaven lets us make our own decisions and plan our own actions so that we might learn for ourselves.

M House
01-21-2009, 11:44 AM
Wow this shit never dies, huh? Awhile ago I decided to throw everything hypothesized about human existence into the toilet. Starting from scratch using anatomy, biology, some genetics, and explaining it all using something very reasonable....sex. Seemed insane at first but after getting into the nitty gritty of human reproductive devices I realized there's something pretty damn strange here. Humans are more or less a primate hybrid. I don't think human males even use a native Y chromosome. We could have existed in some form millions of years dating back to the first primate forms. There's poorly constructed mammal tree in Africa referred to Afrotheria. They are ancient, advanced, and extremely weird. I'd be willing to bet part of the female ancestry comes from them not primates at all. I'm not going to get into all the nitty gritty details of how this could've worked but lets just say women have a very flexible reproductive package.
In general...
1. self cycles
2. self cleans
3. self regulates endocrine balance
4. interfaces with neuroendocrine system in lower brain
5. genetically discriminates frequently aborting likely unfit offspring
6. regulates temperature
7. complex breasts that provide rich milk with consistent content regardless of diet
8. discriminates against male offspring with each progressive birth ultimately leading to a fairly even sex ratio despite huge variables.

Anyway you get the idea. Human beings also have extremely complex adaptive mechanoreceptors in their body that probably have been acquired from a variety of sources. These are in the skin, joints, muscles, organs, and probably will be discovered as time goes on in other areas. You body adapts and changes for you, it's not exactly evolution here. Some of the religious concepts if looked at flexibly would be just as correct as evolution. For example there is some strange relation between men and women. Technically, I'd wanna travel back in time and meet the first females they would've existed well before anything that would be typically viewed as a human male. And well all those stories about about a massive flood or shift in animal populations would be accurate. This speciation process probably made the majority of our ancestors simply go sterile and die. It's not exactly the survival of the fittest with our species. Thus all the strange mating rituals and instance on male superiority. I kinda wish that crap didn't get started but finding a fertile quality male would be kinda difficult seeing how sensitive male development really is. Racism well that shit happened as well. Picky mating, limited resources, and huge physical variation is gonna be a ripe atmosphere for that. Ultimately men today share very similar Y chromosomes....I'd hate to know what we did with the rest. Still doubt our knowledge of the power of mating. Take a look at all the animals and plants, we figured out how to domesticate way before common knowledge of mechanics involved. Also note what religion likes to have the most say in mating. So that's a bit of alternative theory but I kinda feel it will be closer to general consensus in a hundred years.

If that unites anyone or makes them think differently about most things it’s a start. I bet some it’s wrong as well.

TER
01-21-2009, 11:46 AM
God does not want robots. He wants us to love him truly, with our minds as well as our hearts. God has no need of praise- by definition, God needs nothing! He made us so that we might share in the beauty of truth and love.

fedup100
01-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Because he loves us, and allows us to do as we choose.

It is very easy to make it to heaven. You must be almost COMPLETELY EVIL to make it to hell.

well hells bells, it appears you fall into the latter group! :D


Jesus said: Those who believe and are baptised shall be saved. Those who believe not shall be damned. End of the story.



Of course, fed will tell you nearly everyone is going to hell. Especially if you don't repent, aren't baptized, or don't speak in tongues.

Oh, and make sure you are forgiven for everything before you die. Little things can prevent you form getting into heaven, too!


I am pretty excited about our exchange RW (ravenous wolf) because one day I will get to meet you. I will be there as this plays back before you like a roll of filthy toilet paper as you review it with the Lord. There is no doubt at all you are gonna have some splannin to do. :(

So, you have a 50% chance that the dribble (foul ofal from the godless mouth) you have spewed here is either right or wrong. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. He will hold you accountable should one soul be turned away from him by your filthy posts.:o

Personally you and few other new comer shills have gone out of your way to destroy this forum. I have never seen a person so full of demonic hatred and
ego. :eek:

You remind me of a shit fly. You must zip over to every thread and spread the dung that are on your feet, complete with a little smiley. Daily on and on and on until the board is gone and then you'll fly your little shit feet over to the next forum of people struggling to free themselves from the brainwashed obot mindless fascists that spread their filthy PC GODLESS correctness to the unsuspecting. :eek::(:mad:

I personally have noticed that the children of people that grow up in a Pentecostal church rarely actually have the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I can't explain why I can only assume they take it for granted or maybe as the word says "I have called you mine in your mothers womb" Clearly, not everyone will be called of God. :(

I do know those that were filled and then they have walked away form the Holy Spirit, the word says that after the spirit leaves them, their soul is empty and demons will set up residence there. I believe this explains the savage foaming at the mouth hatred that is spewed from these people to the Christian. :eek:

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 06:24 PM
I believe you should review this thread. Just look it over.

I said that I am a Christian. I said we should try and understand where people are coming from even if we don't agree with it. And, I said that even if I don't believe what you do, I will always defend your right to believe it.

How is this evil? And, how is your cursing me, calling me names, damning me to hell (which Jesus warns about) make you a better Christian?

I am sorry that you feel the way you do, but I am through going back and forth with you. It isn't worth it to me. I will hinder your spirit no longer. Worship as you wish, just try and keep me out of it.

(You should know that I haven't been "foaming at the mouth" or anything thinking of this or you. I have actually over the last couple of days forgotten all about this conversation until just now when you posted something to me. I am glad you think of me.:) Maybe you should pray for God to find me and help me if you think I don't know him, instead of condemning me. I would appreciate it.)

fedup100
01-21-2009, 06:27 PM
i believe you should review this thread. Just look it over.

I said that i am a christian. I said we should try and understand where people are coming from even if we don't agree with it. And, i said that even if i don't believe what you do, i will always defend your right to believe it.

How is this evil? And, how is your cursing me, calling me names, damning me to hell (which jesus warns about) make you a better christian?

I am sorry that you feel the way you do, but i am through going back and forth with you. It isn't worth it to me. I will hinder your spirit no longer. Worship as you wish, just try and keep me out of it.

(you should know that i haven't been "foaming at the mouth" or anything thinking of this or you. I have actually over the last couple of days forgotten all about this conversation until just now when you posted something to me. I am glad you think of me.:) maybe you should pray for god to find me and help me if you think i don't know him, instead of condemning me. I would appreciate it.)
o.k. !! :D

Anti Federalist
01-21-2009, 08:59 PM
Let's see...Vampirism? (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20827/lesbian-vampire)

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Let's see...Vampirism? (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20827/lesbian-vampire)

That's weird, but not as weird as it should be.

Does that make sense?

M House
01-21-2009, 09:05 PM
I think vampirism was pretty well discounted after Elizabeth Bathory.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
01-21-2009, 09:15 PM
I am pretty excited about our exchange RW (ravenous wolf) because one day I will get to meet you. I will be there as this plays back before you like a roll of filthy toilet paper as you review it with the Lord. There is no doubt at all you are gonna have some splannin to do. :(

So, you have a 50% chance that the dribble (foul ofal from the godless mouth) you have spewed here is either right or wrong. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. He will hold you accountable should one soul be turned away from him by your filthy posts.:o

Personally you and few other new comer shills have gone out of your way to destroy this forum. I have never seen a person so full of demonic hatred and
ego. :eek:

You remind me of a shit fly. You must zip over to every thread and spread the dung that are on your feet, complete with a little smiley. Daily on and on and on until the board is gone and then you'll fly your little shit feet over to the next forum of people struggling to free themselves from the brainwashed obot mindless fascists that spread their filthy PC GODLESS correctness to the unsuspecting. :eek::(:mad:

I personally have noticed that the children of people that grow up in a Pentecostal church rarely actually have the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I can't explain why I can only assume they take it for granted or maybe as the word says "I have called you mine in your mothers womb" Clearly, not everyone will be called of God. :(

I do know those that were filled and then they have walked away form the Holy Spirit, the word says that after the spirit leaves them, their soul is empty and demons will set up residence there. I believe this explains the savage foaming at the mouth hatred that is spewed from these people to the Christian. :eek:You've apparently forgotten an important biblical lesson: humility. The prophets were taught to carry themselves with the knowledge that, despite what signs they may pick up on that seem to say "you're chosen", perhaps they're wrong about the whole thing.

Of course, that's a very inconvenient lesson, as it threatens to shut down the essence of bigoted supremacism that your upbringing obviously instilled.

And how people like you can even call yourselves friends of liberty is beyond me. What you've just posted is the very essence of communitarianism and big government liberalism: worship of god-kings and the belief in the superiority of one ideology over another.

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:22 PM
You've apparently forgotten an important biblical lesson: humility. The prophets were taught to carry themselves with the knowledge that, despite what signs they may pick up on that seem to say "you're chosen", perhaps they're wrong about the whole thing.


This is from a person that used to have a quote from a satanist at the bottom of his posts, lecturing a professing Christian on the bible. The hypocricy never ends.

You are not capable of making the above statement honestly.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Any person can make the statement honestly that humility is a great characteristic in a person, and one that Jesus himself appeared to really appreciate.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
01-21-2009, 09:25 PM
This is from a person that used to have a quote from a satanist at the bottom of his posts, lecturing a professing Christian on the bible. The hypocricy never ends.

You are not capable of making the above statement honestly.I simply hold politicians and christians alike to the same standards they force upon me.

No surprise, both groups fail every time. You're not worthy of the garbage you're spewing.

M House
01-21-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm beginning to think my crap-shoot of a theory was right....

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:26 PM
I simply hold politicians and christians alike to the same standards they force upon me.

No surprise, both groups fail every time. You're not worthy of the garbage you're spewing.

You can't hold anyone to a standard that you don't hold yourself.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
01-21-2009, 09:28 PM
You can't hold anyone to a standard that you don't hold yourself.And you don't see how this proves the point of my post on humility?

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:30 PM
And you don't see how this proves the point of my post on humility?

Your posts tend to be some of the most exalted, puffed up posts around here, just look at your icon for example. So no, I don't see the kettle alleging someone is a pot is at all beneficial. Your words disable your witness.

M House
01-21-2009, 09:31 PM
Your posts tend to be some of the most exalted, puffed up posts around here, just look at your icon for example. So no I don't see the kettle alleging someone is a pot is at all beneficial.

Seriously BeFranklin do you read your posts? You have two threads dedicated to yourself on this very forum.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 09:42 PM
I have seen one of Grim's posts as puffed up or exalted. I see him speak alot of the truth, and plenty of opinion.

We shouldn't be so offended as to hear a differing opinion, or something that that causes us to question what we believe.

His last post, however, had nothing to do with that. He only acknowledged that humility was a characteristic of a good person, and as I said, something Jesus obviously thought highly of.

I appreciate his comments. And, if I am not mistaken, I have been told off by him before, and not without asking for it.

Don't be so quick to assume you know his heart. Our acts are not all that we are judged on. Remember that.

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:44 PM
Seriously BeFranklin do you read your posts? You have two threads dedicated to yourself on this very forum.

I think I have at least three threads titled with my name, but I didn't post them. They were posted by people trying very hard to ignore my threads.

Hey, I'm going to be posting for the next five months. And I'll be doing more things than that. I hate liars, and it doesn't daunt me the number either.

This society has broken faith by lying about its foundations.

heavenlyboy34
01-21-2009, 09:47 PM
I think I have at least three threads titled with my name, but I didn't post them. They were posted by people trying very hard to ignore my threads.

Hey, I'm going to be posting for the next five months. And I'll be doing more things than that. I hate liars, and it doesn't daunt me the number either.

This society has broken faith by lying about its foundations.

And the faith contributed to its own demise by allowing itself to become a tool of the state. (i.e. non-profit laws that prevent churches from fully exercising 1st amendment rights) :(

M House
01-21-2009, 09:51 PM
In many ways your lying as well. The constitution is not a religious document and you've never presenting any of the more detailed arguments our founders had. Even simple look at the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers show some amazing depth to their philosophy that is not necessarily rooted in Religion at all. The majority of them were very religious but as you've probably seen yourself they were anything but consistent on many of their beliefs. Though it's fair to call the majority of them Christian I guess, I'm sure you'll realize that this is an extreme oversimplification of their views. Their time was one that occurred many changes in the Church and reversal of many beliefs as well.

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:54 PM
And the faith contributed to its own demise by allowing itself to become a tool of the state. (i.e. non-profit laws that prevent churches from fully exercising 1st amendment rights) :(

Partly true I suppose. Looking at the bible recently in a study, I can see an important biblical principle that was forgotten that plays a significant role, and we've danced all around it in discussions in the last few months. I'll post on it sometime later, but its church displine. There's a number of people on this thread that think they are sortof Christian like, but would have probably been kicked out of church a hundred and fifty years ago.

Yet that has far more significance as I might post somewhere else later.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 09:55 PM
oh my god NOOOOOOO.

PLease no!NOt the founding constitution/founding fathers religious crap. :(

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 09:56 PM
In many ways your lying as well. The constitution is not a religious document and .

You will never see me post on the constitution, since I'm looking at the American Revolution.

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 10:00 PM
oh my god NOOOOOOO.

PLease no!NOtthe founding constitution/founding fathers religious crap. :O

Its called church disipline. Least you think I'm joking, I think what others have called puritain stiffness is probably the right way to be.

To take serious things seriously. To call someone what they are doing just that.


Ephesians 5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:04 PM
What's so funny is the reason church's don't pay tasex.

Jesus was against taxes.This was the reason historically accredited for his crucifixion.

He was being a smart alack, by saying that he did not worship Caesar, and therefore saw no reason to give him money, or take his money, since the money had Caesar's face on it.

He reported told someone after being asked to pay taxes, render unto Caesar's that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.... to send the message to him that he was not his property, therefore had no right to him, or his taxes.

It's quite a funny story. I wish I had time to copy and paste exact scriptures and meanings, translations right now, but it has been a hard day, and I am not doing it. Maybe tomorrow?

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:06 PM
Its called church disipline. Least you think I'm joking, I think what others have called puritain stiffness is probably the right way to be.

To take serious things seriously. To call someone what they are doing just that.


Ephesians 5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

I do not think you are joking. This is why I don't want to hear you go on and on and on with another conversation with yourself that lasts 900 pages. Please?


but rather giving of thanks.
Funny, I have never ONCE seen you give thanks. I have seen much lecturing, and google fu, plenty opinion, a few facts, some quotations...but...nope..no thanks. Why is this?

M House
01-21-2009, 10:07 PM
If you're a true puritan, you'd just ignore the female BeFranklin. Afterall this certainly isn't a discussion that should involve them.

BeFranklin
01-21-2009, 10:09 PM
What's so funny is the reason church's don't pay tasex.

Jesus was against taxes.This was the reason historically accredited for his crucifixion.

He was being a smart alack, by saying that he did not worship Caesar, and therefore saw no reason to give him money, or take his money, since the money had Caesar's face on it.

He reported told someone after being asked to pay taxes, render unto Caesar's that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.... to send the message to him that he was not his property, therefore had no right to him, or his taxes.

It's quite a funny story. I wish I had time to copy and paste exact scriptures and meanings, translations right now, but it has been a hard day, and I am not doing it. Maybe tomorrow?

You can look deeper at it then that. You just have to believe Jesus was actually who it is said he was. And everything is God's.

Matthew 17:24-27
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:09 PM
True. I am sorry.

Please disregard previous responses to BE from me. :)

Uriel999
01-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Quite right! How many other religions are all about delicious breakfast foods and cookies that *lower* your cholesterol? NONE.

I won't even get into the shoes, but they are just as delicious as the cookies.

LOL, welcome back to the forum!


pssst!! Bunchies told us that in last month's secret meeting, remember? ;)

Shit I forgot about that, I was drunk at the time. Bunchies should not schedule meetings at 1am.


Nobody seemed to want to discuss anything I was talking about. I wanted people to start naming religions that were obviously wrong so we could work through this problem backwards.

That is true without even being mentioned the Christian apologetics folk popped out.


What's so funny is the reason church's don't pay tasex.

Jesus was against taxes.This was the reason historically accredited for his crucifixion.

He was being a smart alack, by saying that he did not worship Caesar, and therefore saw no reason to give him money, or take his money, since the money had Caesar's face on it.

He reported told someone after being asked to pay taxes, render unto Caesar's that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's.... to send the message to him that he was not his property, therefore had no right to him, or his taxes.

It's quite a funny story. I wish I had time to copy and paste exact scriptures and meanings, translations right now, but it has been a hard day, and I am not doing it. Maybe tomorrow?

That is something most people don't understand about jesus, he was definitely a smart ass. Don't believe me? Think about it, he called Peter "Rock." He was calling him hardheaded. Don't believe Peter was hardheaded? See Acts when Paul and Peter get into a fight!

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Seriously, don't BE, its been a long day.

I just want some thin skimming the posts type of conversation. Don't take it too personal, but I am cold, I am tired, and I have been doing manual labor all day with hubby. I don't want to have that deep a conversation, k?

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:13 PM
LOL, welcome back to the forum!



Shit I forgot about that, I was drunk at the time. Bunchies should not schedule meetings at 1am.



That is true without even being mentioned the Christian apologetics folk popped out.



That is something most people don't understand about jesus, he was definitely a smart ass. Don't believe me? Think about it, he called Peter "Rock." He was calling him hardheaded. Don't believe Peter was hardheaded? See Acts when Paul and Peter get into a fight!


Oh yeah he was...but it's alright, it's just his personality..or was...err...

I don't feel guilty for seeing Jesus as a likable person,lol, instead of just some heavenly son. Sorry if anyone disagrees.

heavenlyboy34
01-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Seriously, don't BE, its been a long day.

I just want some thin skimming the posts type of conversation. Don't take it too personal, but I am cold, I am tired, and I have been doing manual labor all day with hubby. I don't want to have that deep a conversation, k?

~hugs simplegirl to make her feel better~ ;):)

M House
01-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Look woman religious discussions are balls to the wall or not. If Torchbearer were here he'd definitely get this point across.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:20 PM
Look woman religious discussions are balls to the wall or not. If Torchbearer were here he'd definitely get this point across.

lol..i know..but seeing, my lack of balls, and my aching back from putting steel posts into the ground in freezing temps, putting up metal fencing, and hauling sewage pipes, all while slipping and falling in mud, with aching leg tumors, and rubber boots that were over three sizes too big, after being treated like crap form a new doctor, and dealing with my sweet perfectionist hubby who had to redo everything atleast twice, I am soooo not feeling it going deeper.

You guys go ahead, I will watch and give my two cents when it ain't that deep,k?

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:20 PM
~hugs simplegirl to make her feel better~ ;):)

thank you, bella amore. You always make it better.

M House
01-21-2009, 10:22 PM
It's okay the weak, feeble female brain was not meant for heavy lifting-mental or physical.

heavenlyboy34
01-21-2009, 10:24 PM
thank you, bella amore. You always make it better.

bellO, not bella...bella is for females ;)

heavenlyboy34
01-21-2009, 10:25 PM
It's okay the weak, feeble female brain was not meant for heavy lifting-mental or physical.

you lil' troublemaker! ;)

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:27 PM
bellO, not bella...bella is for females ;)

honest mistake. I still love ya. :(

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:28 PM
It's okay the weak, feeble female brain was not meant for heavy lifting-mental or physical.

Hey, there are some serious differences in the male and female brains..I don't want to go into this right now, but.... let's say that I almost completely agree with that statement. ::shrug::

M House
01-21-2009, 10:32 PM
There are in many ways your brain is better if you actually use it. Most of the gray matter in women is located in the PFC which is more or less frontal processing cortex for assembling thoughts, tasks, concentrating attention and focus etc. But technically it is smaller and more dense. However when it comes down to it men are about 15 percent larger physically with like a 3 percent larger brain, so you can do the math.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:38 PM
Like I said, I don't really want to get into this that much, but...

The brains are just different. Maybe not that much better one way or the other, but I do not believe that women can handle the same crap as men..its just..weird..ugh i don't want to get into a big ole debate about this.

my computer is actually BESIDE me, and I am laying down, so I have to lift my arms, and make my hands face downward next to me to type, and my desk is higher than an annoying amount, and my arms are cramping.lol.

and family guy is on. Yeah, I have seen it a million times, but it's funny.

M House
01-21-2009, 10:40 PM
Certainly, you don't gotta use it if you don't want too.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 10:43 PM
k. promise? Its a tired overworked unappreciated thing. :)

M House
01-21-2009, 11:01 PM
k. promise? Its a tired overworked unappreciated thing. :)

Somebody's got some flair for the dramatic. What happened BeFranklin this is the first religious discussion, I've ever seen he/she back down from? Either it's a woman or doesn't like you asimplegirl or probably any of us I guess. Well I hope we don't get hit with a google brick.

asimplegirl
01-21-2009, 11:15 PM
oh no i promise it's me. :)

Pennsylvania
01-22-2009, 09:01 AM
90-some % of the posts in this thread ought to be deleted

That said, here's what I think we've eliminated so far, which have been identified by name, though some posts were made with sarcastic tone:

Babylonian-Talmudism
Baha'i
Bambuti
Church of Euthenasia
Islam
Scientology
Vampirism

Wendi
01-22-2009, 09:21 AM
Seems like a big task picking out the right religion. So why dont we work backwards and start throwing out the religions we know are false. Maybe by process of elimination we can figure it out.
Why are you so worried about what other people believe?

asimplegirl
01-22-2009, 03:13 PM
90-some % of the posts in this thread ought to be deleted

That said, here's what I think we've eliminated so far, which have been identified by name, though some posts were made with sarcastic tone:

Babylonian-Talmudism
Baha'i
Bambuti
Church of Euthenasia
Islam
Scientology
Vampirism

You forgot Pentecostal.

M House
01-22-2009, 04:52 PM
Our teacher today who is actually very religious I guess he's Episcopalian went the thru the general history of Christianity in music appreciation and all I have to say is you guy's believe what exactly and are fighting over who? I'm sure you share some decent beliefs and all but common Christianity was more less made to order by the Catholic Church. This resulted in a badly arranged splice job of gospels, religions and teachings that only very privileged few could read. Then, you know that Nicene creed thing. Of course these founding elements are debated to death and well it happened well after Jesus would've been gone anyway for like centuries. And then results only became uniform and readable hundreds of years later then after that. WTF, seriously this is only the beginning too.... Anyway just checked it on wiki and seems his explanation was pretty accurate so unless somebody wants to contest.

asimplegirl
01-22-2009, 07:28 PM
No, I see it as it is, and what you are saying is true...which is why I say that no religion is wrong just like it isn't right. It is all created by man, and it just depends on which interpretation you want to have faith in. That's all.

M House
01-22-2009, 07:31 PM
Women used to be Bishops until deemed impure or something by your Catholic church. It wasn't just created by man. Christianity is pretty strange in its history.

tribute_13
01-22-2009, 07:38 PM
HUH! Is that the gospel according to Harold? The true gospel, is: "those who believe and are Baptized shall be saved, those who believe not shall be damned", in a nut shell!

Sorry about the damned part, I know it isn't PC correct and it may hurt somes feelings but after all, God doesn't care much about your feelings and he isn't playing word games.

You are right about one thing, he does not care about your religion for all the man made religions are an abomination to him. For they have created the mass of living idiocies we are reading on this thread.

I guess those who believed and were baptized actually will turn out to be "the chosen people" because according to what I am reading, the rest go south!

Not the kind of person I want anything to do with.

tribute_13
01-22-2009, 07:39 PM
The argument that God will damn you if you don't believe in Jesus is bull. If God will damn someone for something as stupid as not returning his love he's got the mentality level of a retarded cockroach.