Seasteading

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://seasteading.org/seastead.org/book_beta/full_book_beta.html

very interesting read!

-t

[asimplegirl]

It is pretty cool, on a slightly related note, there was a great couple who homesteaded on the Atchafalaya Basin at one time. I sigh every time I see the pics....they are my dreams. ::sigh::


The Atchafalaya is a mysterious land, as much underwater as above. Its lush environment is home to alligators, egrets, black bears – and for a time two people who yearned for a simple, natural life. Atchafalaya Houseboat, shares the experiences of Gwen Roland and her companion Calvin Voisin, who left civilization in the turmoil of the early 1970s for the unspoiled beauty of the nation’s largest river swamp, Louisiana’s Atchafalaya Basin.

http://www.lpb.org/programs/houseboat/cclockwood.jpg

There was a documentary, as well as a book written by Gwen while they lived there, Called "Atchafalaya Houseboat".

[cheapseats]

It is pretty cool, on a slightly related note, there was a great couple who homesteaded on the Atchafalaya Basin at one time. I sigh every time I see the pics....they are my dreams. ::sigh::

The Atchafalaya is a mysterious land, as much underwater as above. Its lush environment is home to alligators, egrets, black bears – and for a time two people who yearned for a simple, natural life. Atchafalaya Houseboat, shares the experiences of Gwen Roland and her companion Calvin Voisin, who left civilization in the turmoil of the early 1970s for the unspoiled beauty of the nation’s largest river swamp, Louisiana’s Atchafalaya Basin.


http://www.lpb.org/programs/houseboat/cclockwood.jpg

There was a documentary, as well as a book written by Gwen while they lived there, Called "Atchafalaya Houseboat".

If our plan is to Stand Down, then I am decided that something like this is as good a way as any, and better than many, to ride out the next couple of years.

She looks to be 20-something in the photo. Do you know the ages of Gwen Roland and Calvin Voisin in the early 70's, or how their story continued?

[asimplegirl]

Since 1993 she has been the communications specialist for the Southern Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program, translating sustainable agriculture research results into stories farmers can actually use.

She lives in Pike County, Georgia, a rolling rural landscape in the foothills of the Pine Mountain range.

Gwen and her husband Preston raise most of their own food with the help of horse manure, chickens, goats and earthworms. They also buy from Pike County’s Market on the Square, which they helped organize. The market, along with an old-time dance group Gwen started, make up the core of their social life. The best of times happens when the two groups overlap. As she puts it, “How can you top an evening spent dancing with the farmer who grows your food?”

A big step for Gwen this year was raising a flock of pastured broilers. It was the first time she had raised animals for the purpose of killing them to eat. She reports that the nine birds, now 36 frozen packages in her freezer, are contributing to the most thoughtful meals she has ever eaten.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/Biographies/Gwen-Roland-Bio.jpg

http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/Biographies/Gwen-Roland-Hollyhock.jpg

According to the book, http://books.google.com/books?id=B5xxUp10X3oC&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=gwen+roland+age+when+lived+on+houseboat&source=web&ots=7mfzSoDuAa&sig=g5okX1L9DvDolXNhHcECaMRb2Uo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result, she was thirty two when they left the Atchafalaya.

I have no idea what Calvin has been doing, as the only info I can find is that she met up with him for the first time in 30 years to film Atchafalaya houseboat for PBS.


It took me forever to find anyhting on him, but luckily, on http://www.louisianafolklife.org/main_credits.html:


Calvin Voisin is an Atchafalaya Basin fisherman and photographer.

[Intuition]

Thanks for posting this. I hadn't realized they have a book put together already. I read about this a few years ago and am glad to see the project is moving along. I'm going to see if I can work out donating some time doing research for them.

[Kludge]

When I retire, I hope to have a huge modern houseboat outfitted with enough equipment to only need to dock for food (fish allergies suck). I figure I'll be 70+ by the time I retire, so hopefully a huge wave will sweep me under before I develop Alzheimer's or worse.

[asimplegirl]

Or a whale could swallow you..sort of a modern day Jonah type thing?

[porcupine]

The founder of the Sea Steading Institute will be speaking at the Liberty Forum in March, as will Richard Heller, and many other libertarian luminaries.

http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum

[Conza88]

The NWO will send "peacekeepers" to you. Or consider you a terrorist, because you aren't willing to get chipped. Only terrorists won't get chipped!! Didn't you know?!

[cheapseats]

Barbara Boxer, useless to the cause of reform but married to a wealthy man and apparently determined NEVER to leave office, announced at the Democratic National Convention that SIXTY IS THE NEW FIFTY.
.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/Biographies/Gwen-Roland-Bio.jpg
Gwen Roland, 60-Something

.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/OfficialBoxer.jpg
Barbara Boxer, 68

.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/RWelch67.jpg
Raquel Welch, 67

I hear a LOT of grousing among guys of the Prepared persuasion about money that wives and girlfriends misspend on "crap" like hair, nails, skincare and wardrobe. It IS another coin that is being played on both sides. By another name, it IS Mixed Messaging and it IS fucking with the collective psyche.

Looking like Raquel Welch at Raquel Welch's age is a FULL TIME JOB. In her case, also a business. That's what she DOES. Nips and tucks and procedures and downtime, then do it all again, and again. Exercise, massage, sauna, work on yourself, work on yourself, have others work on yourself, have others work on yourself. Message boards are typically pretty opinionated joints. What think we, truly, about aging? What think we, truly, about the beauty of the physical form? How can it BE that so many Mainstream Media PERSONALITIES and POLITICAL Personalities are passably attractive?

Aside from the FORTUNES that are spent chasing youth, there is psychological wreckage aplenty. Psychological wreckage is ALWAYS expensive.

[asimplegirl]

I think people are more attractive when they aren't artificial, but you can do some things for yourself and look put together without changing yourself.

As for you who is more successful, I wouldn't know monetarily. As far as who is more famous, I would say that she is. As for who I envy the most out of them, I say him. He lived a great life, had a documentary made, a book written all about this life that he came up with the idea for. He gets to live life as he wishes. No one bothers him. He is virtually unknown. I am envious.

As for who is more attractive, I would not know, but if he still has the beard, and looks all outdoorsy and rugged, I swear it is better than her. :)

Then again, I am a sucker for the bearded southern man, who smells like sun and black dirt.

[gls]

The founder of the Sea Steading Institute will be speaking at the Liberty Forum in March, as will Richard Heller, and many other libertarian luminaries.

http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum

This is one of the main reasons I bought a ticket and will be attending. Patri's presentation should be very interesting.

[Kludge]

I think people are more attractive when they aren't artificial, but you can do some things for yourself and look put together without changing yourself.

Win! Why does my generation seem to disagree?

Distractingly colored hair, ridiculously dark tans, and rings/tattoos in places and numbers which demand awe (but not respect)... And then there's the anti-conformist conformist emo movement which makes me want to ram my head through a wall.

[cheapseats]

I think people are more attractive when they aren't artificial, but you can do some things for yourself and look put together without changing yourself.

I quite agree. HOWEVER, comma, American men overwhelmingly DO oggle babes with fake parts and surgical maintenance.

Up-and-coming girls can SEE what "gets the guy."

Pit "getting the guy" against FIFTY-THREE MILLION SINGLE WOMEN and a Pretend You Aren't Who And What You Are industry that is second to NONE . . . it's BEGGING for trouble. And we get it, in spades. All KINDSA guys dumpin' long-time wives for newer models.



As for you who is more successful, I wouldn't know monetarily. As far as who is more famous, I would say that she is. As for who I envy the most out of them, I say him. He lived a great life, had a documentary made, a book written all about this life that he came up with the idea for. He gets to live life as he wishes. No one bothers him. He is virtually unknown. I am envious.


With the exception of WHO'S IDEA WAS IT, all that you attribute to his credit can be attributed to her in like measure. I inferred from a line that stated her name and then "her companion so-and-so" that it was her idea.

No matter. It was an innovative and purposeful idea. They executed it and lived to tell and, from what you say, parted amicably enough to re-visit the experience these many years later. Good on BOTH of them, but I'm not gonna be surprised if it turns out that SHE was the brains of the operation. No matter on that, too. Neither could have pulled it off so well without an Other.



As for who is more attractive, I would not know, but if he still has the beard, and looks all outdoorsy and rugged, I swear it is better than her. :)


Yeah, but you have already revealed yourself to have a soft spot for HE-Men.



Then again, I am a sucker for the bearded southern man, who smells like sun and black dirt.

See above. ;)

[cheapseats]

Win! Why does my generation seem to disagree?

Distractingly colored hair, ridiculously dark tans, and rings/tattoos in places and numbers which demand awe (but not respect)... And then there's the anti-conformist conformist emo movement which makes me want to ram my head through a wall.

I have more than once gasped, literally could not control the sharp intake of breath, when certain Seventy Somethings have gotten out of chauffeur-driven Rolls Royces and Maybachs in Beverly Hills. Startling to the point that I am UNable, NOT able, to understand how that woman and her surgeon both look in the mirror and say, "Yep, THAT'S the look we were goin' for."

I vouch not for verity but I was once told that long long from now, when archaeologists "discover" us, the two things that will be readily identifiable amongst the landfill that was our life will be disposable diapers and silicon implants. I was also told that breast implants survive cremation, which is at once disturbing and hilarious to contemplate.

[asimplegirl]

Good on BOTH of them, but I'm not gonna be surprised if it turns out that SHE was the brains of the operation.

BTW, I am not arguing, just giving you my source.



This was a tiny slice of Gwen Carpenter Roland’s back-to-nature life in the Atchafalaya River Basin Swamp in the ’70s. It started when family friend Calvin Voisin told her about his recent move deep into the basin. His goal was to do what his ancestors had done: fish, live off the land and come into town only when necessary. It sounded fascinating to Roland. Her ancestors were swamp dwellers, too. She’d been looking for interesting summer work, so she tagged along.




http://www.225batonrouge.com/news/2006/apr/01/swamp-siren/

[cheapseats]

BTW, I am not arguing, just giving you my source.
http://www.225batonrouge.com/news/2006/apr/01/swamp-siren/

I KNOW you're not. I GET IT that different perspectives can and WILL be brought to bear on issues. It is my experience, in fact, that discussions are not unlike houses for being rather more interesting with a multiplicity of views.

As to this,


This was a tiny slice of Gwen Carpenter Roland’s back-to-nature life in the Atchafalaya River Basin Swamp in the ’70s. It started when family friend Calvin Voisin told her about his recent move deep into the basin. His goal was to do what his ancestors had done: fish, live off the land and come into town only when necessary. It sounded fascinating to Roland. Her ancestors were swamp dwellers, too. She’d been looking for interesting summer work, so she tagged along.


Fair enough, his idea. Still, good on both of 'em.

Tagging along with and making yourself useful to someone who's got a great idea, is a great idea.

Swamp Dweller, that's pretty far afield . . . I can envision lots of variations-one-might-say-improvements on THAT theme. Loan Modification? Escapist Modification, drawing upon a pharmacological history so rich that Monsanto will head up American Agriculture . . . STAY AHEAD OF THE PAIN. ;)

[asimplegirl]

eheh. I like you.

[asimplegirl]

Win! Why does my generation seem to disagree?

Distractingly colored hair, ridiculously dark tans, and rings/tattoos in places and numbers which demand awe (but not respect)... And then there's the anti-conformist conformist emo movement which makes me want to ram my head through a wall.

It is just not cool to agree.

What is sad is it is not one generation anymore. My mother seems to think sh elooks great with dyed hair, fake nails, fake tan, skimpy clothing, tattoos, piercings .

There is nothing further from the truth.

A woman in her forties trying to appear to be sixteen is just pathetic, and sad. To me, it automatically labels a woman as white trash, no matter her income.

Once, while with an ex, I was left at home for him to go out. See, that's just not my scene, atleast not where he went out (for torchbearer, the bayview, ugh). So, I stayed in. I found out later that he was with a girl they called barbie. She was twenty and had already had implants, a nose job, lipo, that nasty lip stuff, and a...get this...face lift! She also had a nasty fake tan, fake nails, bleach blond hair, and dressed like a damned hooker. Oh, and she worked in the mall.

I was at home, mowing the mowing the grass. I had no fixed my hair, but had it twisted up on my head in a messy bun, just trying to get it out of the way ( I am a natural blond, take that hoochies!), was wearing a bikini with some stained up 900 year old overalls on over it. White as a got danged ghost...

I had been sweating and was all kinds of gross. His best friend came over and told me where he was, not knowing I was unaware. Before he left, I am glad to report that he said he could not understand why his friend did not see what he had and that they should make a syrup bottle out of my NATURAL figure. I then had some 12 year olds come over and ask if they could finish my yard for me, while barely placing their tongues back in their mouths. There is a market out there for the natural yet put together types..I like to think it justtakes a spoiled eye to spot it. Helps the old self esteem. :D

[ingrid]

There's some current pictures here with Calvin:
http://www.cclockwood.com/stockimages/crawfishing.htm

[asimplegirl]

Thank you! You know I have seen those pics so many times, and never saw them with the names under them!

Looks like he's got a Sam Elliot thing going on. I can dig that.

[cheapseats]

Thank you! You know I have seen those pics so many times, and never saw them with the names under them!

Looks like he's got a Sam Elliot thing going on. I can dig that.

Yeah, but there's that soft spot for guys that you UNMISTAKABLY have. ;)

I'm sure he's as wiry and scrappy and can be -- bench-press a man twice his size and all, wrestled two gators by his lonesome -- but when viewed from the SHTF perspective, dontcha think he's a little SLIGHT? 'Course, maybe that was a good thing in cramped quarters.

I will venture to guess that he resembled George Harrison in his youth, though with lighter hair and eyes. Standard Issue Seventies Hippie, backwoods style.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/CalvinVoisin2.jpg

[cheapseats]

Barbara Boxer, useless to the cause of reform but married to a wealthy man and apparently determined NEVER to leave office, announced at the Democratic National Convention that SIXTY IS THE NEW FIFTY.
.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/Biographies/Gwen-Roland-Bio.jpg
Gwen Roland, 60-Something

.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/OfficialBoxer.jpg
Barbara Boxer, 68

.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/RWelch67.jpg
Raquel Welch, 67

I hear a LOT of grousing among guys of the Prepared persuasion about money that wives and girlfriends misspend on "crap" like hair, nails, skincare and wardrobe. It IS another coin that is being played on both sides. By another name, it IS Mixed Messaging and it IS fucking with the collective psyche.

Looking like Raquel Welch at Raquel Welch's age is a FULL TIME JOB. In her case, also a business. That's what she DOES. Nips and tucks and procedures and downtime, then do it all again, and again. Exercise, massage, sauna, work on yourself, work on yourself, have others work on yourself, have others work on yourself. Message boards are typically pretty opinionated joints. What think we, truly, about aging? What think we, truly, about the beauty of the physical form? How can it BE that so many Mainstream Media PERSONALITIES and POLITICAL Personalities are passably attractive?

Aside from the FORTUNES that are spent chasing youth, there is psychological wreckage aplenty. Psychological wreckage is ALWAYS expensive.

The gazillions of dollars that women spend trying to look differently than they look is OVERWHELMINGLY to please men. What say the men? What is the balance? Which women will grow old gracefully, and in their grace and wisdom teach OTHERS to also bow before inevitably, if the babes get the guys?

[cheapseats]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/GwenRoland3.jpg . http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/CalvinVoisin1.jpg

They strike me as having been comparably attractive in the 70's, and as having aged comparably. But I think that, by and large, American Society will not confer upon them the same evaluation for attractiveness.

[cheapseats]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/GwenRoland3.jpg . http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/CalvinVoisin1.jpg

They strike me as having been comparably attractive in the 70's, and as having aged comparably. But I think that, by and large, American Society will not confer upon them the same evaluation for attractiveness.

NO ONE but me has an opinion on this. NO ONE but me identifies this as a Mixed Messaging Mindfuck that also constitutes boatloads of narcissistically spent money during an unprecedented international economic crisis?

I don't believe that. Opinions are 13 to the dozen. C'mo-o-o-n, fess up.

Here's what I think. I think that these ages and in these conditions, more people are inclined to say that he STAYED FIT and that she LET HERSELF GO. I actually think she's lovely, "in her way," attractive being a NOTABLY subjective term.

Hence, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Who hasn't had a friend or relative gush about a partner . . . "he's SO handsome, she's SO beautiful" . . . and then, upon meeting the person, have a big WTF ricocheting around their head? The WORST is when they enthuse, "You're gonna LOVE him/her." That kinda predisposes me AGAINST a person - completely unfair, but true.

Which has nothing to do with America's abiding but futile love affair with youth and beauty. America's population is outta whack -- so is China's population, by the by.

Barack Obama, aside from all his other Weirdo Factors, lacks sheer life experience (and what he DOES have is all twisted up in that Frat Brat bullshit). By contrast, ancient palsied Robert Byrd and gluttonous brain-tumor Kennedy are required to make our boat float?

We're all over the map, helter skelter, like crazy people. Disturbed people cause disturbances. Crazy people cause craziness. Sick people cause sickness. It was ever thus.

[cheapseats]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/Kids.jpg
Kids

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/Pre-Clinton.jpg
Pre-Clinton

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/GloryDays.jpg
Glory Days

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/Swells.jpg
Golden Days

Lotta lotta time and money goes into those glossy images. The MALE Politicos and Media Stars, too -- we're all clear on that, right? And not a few executives. Male make-up, the works. Vanity, self-absorption and frivolousness produce an image that is somehow "required" to be credible. Have tie, can pillage -- what is THAT all about?

[Intuition]

I think people are so easily enraptured with the prospect of "beauty" (which I agree is entirely subjective) because fundamentally they are insecure. If I only have a limited view of my true self, I am more easily confused about what really matters to my self. The problem is that very few people sufficiently understand and steadfastly study their self.

My .02

[cheapseats]

I think people are so easily enraptured with the prospect of "beauty" (which I agree is entirely subjective) because fundamentally they are insecure. If I only have a limited view of my true self, I am more easily confused about what really matters to my self. The problem is that very few people sufficiently understand and steadfastly study their self.

My .02

I completely agree, but would add the kicker that People are pretty much TERRIFIED of death. They're afraid of being alone and, since attractive gets the girl/guy, unattractive=alone.

But to add insult to injury, stipulating that who goes when has a distinct crapshoot element to it, when you start LOOKING old, admit it, you're on the back nine. Alone AND dead = conjure images of neighbors discovering your carcass AFTER they can smell it.

For a nation that claims to be Christian and that seems overall satisfied with itself, you'd think people would be a little more anxious to pass Go and be in the perfection of God's midst eternally.

[Intuition]

Agreed. I'm continuously confused by our fears of death and being alone. Death is a certainty of life. It seems absurd to me to fear something that I know is going to happen. Seems like a misuse of the emotion.

[cheapseats]

Agreed. I'm continuously confused by our fears of death and being alone. Death is a certainty of life. It seems absurd to me to fear something that I know is going to happen. Seems like a misuse of the emotion.

That said, I am in no HURRY. I am quite sure that I'm "in." I suspect that a bunch of people are gonna be surprised to find out that they have to get through people like me -- I'll be JUST inside the gate, like a Bouncer. ;) But I don't want to go early, just because shit got outta hand. That spells icky painful death, I'm guessing.

What is occurring, and getting worse by the month, is that it is not so SAFE to be alone. I like my company better than I like the company of anyone I've ever met. Since the age of cognizance, I can't remember a single day that didn't seem too short. Alas, my country has changed beyond recognition.

It is no longer SAFE to go it alone. How surprising is THAT? My Grandmother's generation, LOTS of women lived 20 or 30 years longer than their spouses . . . we didn't just send them scooters and wish them the best of luck. They didn't live in FEAR, except maybe of falling.

America has no realistic sense of its OWN demographics. It's like there's a teeny tiny percent of substantially fake people -- fake parts and all -- entertaining themselves and anesthetizing the public. For people "in the know," most of the country constitutes a fly-over zone.

[asimplegirl]

I think its sad the way we view people. I think it is horrible that our images matter that much, and that this is what determines if a person is up to our standards.

I do have a soft spot for men, manly men to be more accurate, and I like 'em rugged and outdoorsy. To the same effect, I think that women that look fake are completely disgusting. I like the naturally aged woman. The beauty of self worth is much more valuable than that of what she has done to herself to be worth something to someone that cares about it.

I think Gwen looks INCREDIBLE, as does he.

I think that when people don't try to hard, and are themselves it is so much more attractive. This is why I loved the way my hubby looked when we first met. He was unpretentious, attractive, and only took care enough to not look like he rolled right outta bed.

To see a man working in the heat of the day, sweat dripping from his brow, a little rough facial hair and I am swooning.

A woman who has clean skin, a cotton dress, in a garden or a kitchen is incredibly attractive to me...then again, I have been told that we find attractive things that are most like us though we realize it or not.

I cannot tell you how many times women have made fun of me when dropping their children off for me to watch, or paying me to clean their homes. I have no issue with wearing a long cool cotton dress, have my hair pulled off of my face, or even down my back, not have a layer of makeup on, but have a fresh scrubbed face, with a little mascara and lip balm, barefoot.

What is so unattractive to this generation about a woman dressed like this in a graden with a baby on her hip picking tomatoes, or in her kitchen in an apron pulling homemade bread form the oven I will never understand- but know this:

When these people age, and their partners look at their faces and see no resemblance to who they fell in love with, when they roll over at night while their partner is sleeping and wonder who they could look so different during the day, what then?

What when the money runs out? What when those clothes are not what matter?

It is very sad to me to see a young girl try and look like an airbrushed picture from a magazine. She will never achieve this..and what does it do to her self- esteem?

I am sorry, I would rather be me, thank you. I will take jeans stained from working in the yard or on the truck with my hubby, nails with a little dirt under them from digging in the earth, and flour stained shirts from the cookies I reward him with. I would rather smell of lemons and fresh scraped vanilla beans from baking, and have a sticker stuck to my hiney from playing with my stepson. I would rather have the mud between my toes. I would rather hair that is slightly faded from the sun.

That's just who I am.

[cheapseats]

I think its sad the way we view people. I think it is horrible that our images matter that much, and that this is what determines if a person is up to our standards.


Here's a laugh. We've got just-for-show counterproductive machismo pitted against misguided notions of what constitutes ridiculousness and what constitutes discriminatory gender bias, and at the same time, to be a credible TV-caliber American politician, male or female, you have to dress a persnickety way, have your hair arranged just so, and have good make-up. Some cosmetic surgery or a regimen of laser procedures wouldn't hurt. I mean, they would HURT. And they would be EXPENSIVE. And I'm wondering whether Media, Political and Executive Stars DEDUCT their skincare as a business expense. But, yeah, all that crap HELPS. You know, if you wanna get in on the Change racket.

[cheapseats]

I do have a soft spot for men


How can you not? They are exactly like women in one regard.

You can't live with 'em, you can't live without 'em.

[Matt Collins]

Peter Thiel Makes Down Payment on Libertarian Ocean Colonies

By Alexis Madrigal http://www.wired.com/images/icon_email.gif (http://www.wired.com/services/feedback/letterstoeditor) 05.19.08
http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2008/05/seastanding_630px.jpg (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading#) http://www.wired.com/images/zoom.gif (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading#)
An artist's conception of what a large seastead based on the spur design could look like. The Seasteading Institute envisions vast clumps of these structures forming city-states in the open ocean.
Illustration: Valdemar Duran (http://isaacdesigns.blogspot.com/)

SOURCE:
http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading

[Matt Collins]

Live Free or Drown: Floating Utopias on the Cheap



http://www.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1702/mf_seasteading_f.jpg (http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/magazine/17-02/mf_seasteading#) http://www.wired.com/images/zoom.gif (http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/magazine/17-02/mf_seasteading#)
Patri Friedman wants to make it easy for anyone to build an independent country: "If we make one seastead, there's room for thousands."
Photo: Dustin Aksland



SOURCE:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/magazine/17-02/mf_seasteading

[cheapseats]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/GwenRoland3.jpg . http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/CalvinVoisin1.jpg

They strike me as having been comparably attractive in the 70's, and as having aged comparably. But I think that, by and large, American Society will not confer upon them the same evaluation for attractiveness.




I think Gwen looks INCREDIBLE, as does he.


It cannot have escaped your notice that there aren't but a few of us weighing in. Kinda hard to gage whether there's any broad support for scaling back the Buy Your Way To Youth & Beauty trade.

[cheapseats]

Peter Thiel Makes Down Payment on Libertarian Ocean Colonies

By Alexis Madrigal http://www.wired.com/images/icon_email.gif (http://www.wired.com/services/feedback/letterstoeditor) 05.19.08
http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2008/05/seastanding_630px.jpg (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading#) http://www.wired.com/images/zoom.gif (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading#)
An artist's conception of what a large seastead based on the spur design could look like. The Seasteading Institute envisions vast clumps of these structures forming city-states in the open ocean.
Illustration: Valdemar Duran (http://isaacdesigns.blogspot.com/)

SOURCE:
http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/05/seasteading


I can't find the thread right now but this seasteading dot want IMMEDIATE connection to the U.N.-Governing-Sea-Law dot.

[Matt Collins]

I do have a soft spot for menHmmm... I could make SEVERAL jokes about this. But since I have promised some people I would behave I won't make the obligatory jokes. ;)

[cheapseats]

Hmmm... I could make SEVERAL jokes about this. But since I have promised some people I would behave I won't make the obligatory jokes. ;)

And we're gonna thank you for that.

In the meantime, since you're here, what do you think of the real-time physical appearances of the couple who took off together during tumultuous times, then split up, both going on to do apparently what they enjoy, and who parted on good enough terms that they can collaborate these many years later on a project?

'Course maybe it was YEARS before they could stand the sight of each other.

[asimplegirl]

As much as I have read of her writings, she claims that once the houseboat thing was over, she met a man, fell in love and married, as Calvin was just a family friend, who she got close to in that time.

They moved off where he wanted, and Calvin never left his home in the swamp. They didn't dislike each other, and did not speak or see each other for thirty years. They were just indifferent. Isn't that just like a seventies couple? :)

[cheapseats]

As much as I have read of her writings, she claims that once the houseboat thing was over, she met a man, fell in love and married, as Calvin was just a family friend, who she got close to in that time.

They moved off where he wanted, and Calvin never left his home in the swamp. They didn't dislike each other, and did not speak or see each other for thirty years. They were just indifferent. Isn't that just like a seventies couple? :)

Whereas I understand theirs to have been a more escapist/naturalist adventure, I propose doing something comparably eclectic but with an activist/internet bent and an Rv, and a greater degree of danger. Or maybe not more dangerous, considering the alligators.

Whaddya think?

I have to find the other half of a Pair, though. It's not tenable alone.

[asimplegirl]

Well, it started out with Calvin wanting to get back to his roots. Which is ABOVE admirable to me.

Well, it'd have been dangerous to anyone who does live here, but he grew up in these parts, so it's second nature to him. I can tell people of swimming with alligator snappers and gatprs that aren't form here, and they think I am a loon. But, people here know how to move without seeming like a threat around these creatures.

[Intuition]

I grew up on the lakes on central FL fishing, swimming and boating. I've been chased off by bull gators during the mating season protecting their territory. I've caught catfish with my hands (watch those snappers!). There's something so beautiful and yet mysterious about the tannin tinted waters of the south. I remember being about 5 or 6 in the woods by myself and coming across a bobcat. I was scared to death but she just ran as quick as she could. That's how nature is most of the time--it's built around respect.

Love that lifestyle and in a way I can't wait to get back.

[asimplegirl]

Your post reminds me of something that happened recently.

I was asked by a chick who lived in chicago why I liked the south, or even the country so much. My answer?

I can remember being a very small child, walking barefoot to get fresh yard eggs from the pens, walking through the rows of peppers and watermelons, picking a pepper and praying it wasn't hot and chewing on it until getting inside with the eggs.

I remember being greeted with the bacon laying in thick layers in the bottom of the deep freezer, maw maw slicing it pretty nicely, and frying it up, with a large pan of fresh catheads cooling on the counter, a pitcher of fresh milk with cream on top sitting in the middle of the table, handing the eggs of to be cooked sunny side up.

I remember running off after breakfast down to handlebar creek and swinging into the cold waters from those old rusty handlebars hanging form a rope, being sure to shuffle on the water's bottom as to know what was down there, and avoid getting bitten.

I remember walking back to the house, cutting through the thick woods and waters, with the spanish moss, cypress and spindly oak trees marking my way.

I remember momma and maw maw sitting on the porch, with the front door open, so they could hear days of our lives (before hope was buried alive the first time), momma snapping fresh peas, maw maw chopping fresh okra. Every time I saw momma with those beans I thought about paw paw making my daddy pick a sack (that maw maw had sewn) as long as he was tall (he is 6'4) of peas, and if he didn't finish by night fall, momma had to go to bed anyway.

I remember picking those peas, my back wanting to break and paw paw giving me a damned quarter for those peas (remember the time we put our quarter together and bought nothing?!). I remember smelling gumbo cooking from down the road, I remember daddy blasting skynyrd outta the radio, and paw paw spittin' his chew.

My kids will have these same memories.

This is way off topic of seasteading, but, Intuition, I felt you would like it. :)

[Anti Federalist]

The UN LOST agreement makes all this an elaborate pipe dream.

[asimplegirl]

What is "the un lost agreement" exactly? Honestly, I am clueless.

[Intuition]

The UN LOST agreement makes all this an elaborate pipe dream.

Can you explain why? The freedom of the high seas still exists in the Law of the Sea Treaty from the way I read it.

[Anti Federalist]

What is "the un lost agreement" exactly? Honestly, I am clueless.

Law Of the Sea Treaty.

Basically, ceding all ocean areas, both above and below the sea floor, to UN control.

"Seasteading", as envisioned, would be prohibited, or come under direct UN regulation, under a number of provisions of the treaty.

Once the U. S. became a party to the treaty, any number of issues could be adjudicated by a LOST tribunal. It is not clear what the limits are on the issues that could be taken up by LOST. Jurisdiction over anything that affects the oceans directly or indirectly could be asserted. The majority of members of the tribunal adjudicating any particular issue are almost certainly going to be hostile to U. S. interests. Tribunal decisions cannot be appealed. Unlike every other country in the world, those decisions could be enforced in U. S. federal courts against the federal government

[Anti Federalist]

Can you explain why? The freedom of the high seas still exists in the Law of the Sea Treaty from the way I read it.

As it stands right now, you could not "class" any sort of seasteading vessel or fixed platform, without coming under some form of UN/IMO control.

LOST would enhance that.

[cheapseats]

The UN LOST agreement makes all this an elaborate pipe dream.




As it stands right now, you could not "class" any sort of seasteading vessel or fixed platform, without coming under some form of UN/IMO control.

LOST would enhance that.

So this treaty is not yet passed, is that correct?

I feel that we should review ALL of our treaties, and sign no further ones. I feel that we need to take an honest inventory of our friends. I am not personally feeling aligned with many of the people/countries/entities/organizations to which the United States government sends taxpayer money. Ditto regarding feeling answerable to any of these people/countries/entities/organizations. I'm feelin' kinda USED -- like a lot of these "alliances" are abusive relationships. GET OUT OF IT is always sound advice when it comes to abusive relationships.

What say you?

[cheapseats]

This thread is not so long, that it can't be read in its entirety...IF you are a person who has genuinely HAD IT UP TO HERE.

Lotsa folks are saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, but they're pluggin' away in compliance of TERMS OF SERVICE.

Some people are saying THIS IS WHERE I GET OFF, and doing it.

LIFE IS SHORT AND THE WORLD IS BIG.

That is what I said when I got started with this-whatever-this-is. I don't fly anymore. I USED to fly. I EXPECTED to be traveling the world at this stage of my life. ADAPT, OR DON'T. Them's the terms.

REFUSENIK, right here.

Non serviam.

LIFE IS SHORT AND THE (NOT VERY) UNITED STATES IS BIG.

The world will have to be experienced via gizmos. I don't make the rules. I'm just bobbing and weaving AROUND them.

[cheapseats]

Several years back, a cruise ship converted to FLOATING CONDOMINIUMS, once around the world per year. It might get old, especially the NEIGHBORS, but I could tough it out for awhile.

It occurs to me, I might should have clarified that I have a TERRA FIRMA concept in mind. Not that I couldn't be persuaded or compelled out to sea, but it's nothing I could arrange.

Not-one-but-two Prepared People have bestowed a nod of approval on my choices-to-date (SURE, they weren't around for the COMEDY OF ERRORS), but this is as far as I can take it alone. Take WHAT? Let's see...what is innocuous enough for Authorities but interesting enough for Folks? Hmmm...STARTING OVER?

Is that not usually at bedrock with Intentional Communities, including American Settlers?

SOMEONE will be elected in November . . . and THEN what? Some people will start on THE NEXT ELECTION(S) & THE NEXT CANDIDATE(S). Some people will be DONE with politics, I think.

[Joseph]

Seasteading is the culmination of the of libertarian thought. It is a physical representation of achieving a free society without political involvement. Getting an An-Cap seastead out onto the ocean should be the ideal goal of libertarians, Voluntaryists, and free state project members alike.

It's finally a practical way out, without having to try to compete with statists for political control. We can let them have their violent socialist society and we could have our society, living away from statists and watch as those who believe in violence destroy their own world. The statist will watch us thrive while they live in the depraved system they created.

Go to www.seasteading.org to learn about Seasteads, their ideas and how they plan to achieve this incredible goal. I encourage everyone to support the Seasteading movement, and consider donating to help fund this incredible venture.

[cheapseats]

Seasteading is the culmination of the of libertarian thought.

If yer a sea-farin' sort.




It is a physical representation of achieving a free society without political involvement.

If yer an AnCap sea-farin' sort.




Getting an An-Cap seastead out onto the ocean should be the ideal goal of libertarians, Voluntaryists, and free state project members alike.

SHOULD goes with Libertarian, Voluntary and Free like PRISON goes with Free Choice, Victimless Crime and Democracy.




It's finally a practical way out, without having to try to compete with statists for political control. We can let them have their violent socialist society and we could have our society, living away from statists and watch as those who believe in violence destroy their own world. The statist will watch us thrive while they live in the depraved system they created.

Even IF Control Freaks who persecute Home Gardeners and Neighborhood Barterers would somehow NOT be threatened by this utopian water-bound self-sufficiency, I would still draw attention to the distinction between A WAY OUT and FREEDOM.

Don't get me wrong, depending the terms, I'll take a way out over incarceration. But MANAGING TO ESCAPE is not the same thing as ACHIEVING LIBERTY, in the GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH paradigm.

(In the WRONGFUL INCARCERATION paradigm, managing to escape DOES pass for Liberty.)

[Joseph]

Ouch, lol. Semantics are horrible. I guess what I was trying to articulate is that it is the most practical and achievable goal at the moment. I mean using politics just forces those who want to live in a socialist state to live in a libertarian one. As far as 'should' just like those who want the best possible president should vote for Ron Paul, those who want to try out a libertarian society should try out seasteading. As far as a way out, it's a way out in the same way that starting a new society was an escape from great Britain.

[cheapseats]

Ouch, lol.

Yer a Good Sport.




Semantics are horrible.

PEOPLE are horrible. Language is inadequate to keeping them from resorting to the universal sign language of FORCE.




I guess what I was trying to articulate is that it is the most practical and achievable goal at the moment. I mean using politics just forces those who want to live in a socialist state to live in a libertarian one. As far as 'should' just like those who want the best possible president should vote for Ron Paul, those who want to try out a libertarian society should try out seasteading.

COULD.

Seasteading SHOULD LOGICALLY be one of several SIMULTANEOUS ENDEAVORS.

The Powers that, in fact, BE exercising more and more and more control (I mean, this is SO not fun) are unleashing their schemes FAST AND FURIOUS. Think, WHACK A MOLE. The People, by contrast, "work within the system" . . . requesting permits, waiting for permission, following rules . . . trying things one by one, which are EASILY smacked down by Greater Force with the Official stamp of approval.

Quite a different STORY=MEDIA if the government(s) of the LAND OF THE FREE start forcibly "taking out" NUMEROUS enclaves of Conscientious Objectors. Another and another and another? NIET! YOU CANNOT BE FREE! OUR GUNS ARE BIGGER THAN YOUR GUNS! WE WILL ROUT YOU WITH OUR SUPERIOR FIRE POWER, AND WE WILL THROW YOUR ASSES IN PRISON AFTER STRIP-SEARCHING THEM!

No indeed, that would NOT play well on the evening news.

Even Soft Suburbanites would take notice. Wai-- Wha--? We VACATIONED there last summer! We go HIKING there! What the HELL?!

First, you've gotta get MAD.

As for PRACTICALITY . . . #EddieIzzard: "I'm willing to learn." . . . it seems like Seasteading would have a pretty hefty upfront capital outlay. NOT to discourage it, on the contrary . . . but Seasteading seems also like it might be fraught with GREATER RISKS, and might therefore be less suitable for NON MACGYVER SLASH ROAD WARRIOR types.




As far as a way out, it's a way out in the same way that starting a new society was an escape from great Britain.

Yes, yes, yes . . . some people, a different Few, must "simply" take the chance.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajCI5xjfPz0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajCI5xjfPz0