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RonPaulVolunteer
01-14-2009, 10:11 PM
Was Jesus a Socialist? (http://godsipod.com/christian_podcasts/israel_anderson/files/was_jesus_a_socialist.html)

By yours truly.

RonPaulVolunteer
01-15-2009, 03:07 AM
No one has any feedback for me at all on this? I had hoped to make something really short and useful. Have I failed?

ClayTrainor
01-15-2009, 03:34 AM
Well, I'm not religious, but i enjoyed that article and it's pretty sweet how you read along with Audiobook quality.

Actually, the quality of your voice with music is better than most audio books i buy, to be perfectly honest :cool:

Want to read some books onto mp3 for me? haha, jk

The article was good. Socialism truly is slavery, where you are ruled by everyone, with limits in your ability to succeed.


Good work man!

Forgive my ignorance, but why do Christians call gods son, Jesus and Hebrews call him Yeshua? Is there no hard proof of what this mans name was?

blocks
01-15-2009, 03:35 AM
Great article, thanks for posting. I'm not a religious fellow by any means but I know that Yeshua existed and was a very enlightened man.

I once made the joke that Jesus was a socialist and his father, a conservative. :p....Ignorance, I suppose.

But you make the greatest moral argument against government: forced v. voluntary charity.

Overall, an awesome piece!!! Forwarding to many of my Christian friends and family. The audio reading is an excellent touch!

FrankRep
01-15-2009, 03:44 AM
The difference is choice.

Socialism forces you to "help" others through wealth redistribution.

Ex Post Facto
01-15-2009, 04:00 AM
There is nothing wrong with giving whatever you have at your own free-will to do so. Most people probably would do great things if they were allowed to keep their profits from their works. When someone has their hand in your pocket though it is hard to keep giving what you have, as you don't have much left.

Elwar
01-15-2009, 07:52 AM
From what little I know on the subject I would say that Jesus supported voluntary socialism. The first Christians were communist in a way, giving up their possessions, sharing all of their belongings, etc.

But he was against government currency. "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" is not an advocacy of paying taxes. It was an advocacy of giving Caesar back his coins. That would be like me having a dollar bill with George Bush's face on it saying...give George Bush his dollar back. It's not supporting giving money to the government, it's supporting not using the government created money.

PaulineDisciple
01-15-2009, 07:53 AM
Only if you force the Socialists redistributing the wealth not to keep any for themselves and they will eventually starve and all of the socialists would be dead in a few months. The problem with Socialism is it only benifits those in control of the money, everyone else loses, they are parisites on society. Most statistics that I have seen show that those running these socialist schemes keep at least 70 percent of the money, no wonder they are always trying to sell their schemes with a barrage of propaganda with their willing accomplices, the media.

yoshimaroka
01-15-2009, 08:11 AM
Jesus would then be an anarcho-socialist… like living in a commune.

angelatc
01-15-2009, 08:14 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but why do Christians call gods son, Jesus and Hebrews call him Yeshua? Is there no hard proof of what this mans name was?

I am guessing because it's a different language, like John and Juan.

And they don't call him the son of God either. That's the part that baffles me. Why do "we" hate Islam so much, yet "we" worship the Jews almost as much as they worship themselves?

yoshimaroka
01-15-2009, 08:21 AM
I am guessing because it's a different language, like John and Juan.

And they don't call him the son of God either. That's the part that baffles me. Why do "we" hate Islam so much, yet "we" worship the Jews almost as much as they worship themselves?

There are different names for God in the Bible.

Elohim, Yaweh, etc.


There were different tribes that formed Israel and some were polytheist (hence the multiple names) before they amalgamated it into a single deity.

Jeremy
01-15-2009, 08:32 AM
Jesus rejected violent anything. :)

tremendoustie
01-15-2009, 09:19 AM
Was Jesus a Socialist? (http://godsipod.com/christian_podcasts/israel_anderson/files/was_jesus_a_socialist.html)

By yours truly.

Awesome article!

I guess I have a minor theological disagreement with this line: "If we don't, God will give us the government we deserve, and as history has well shown, Socialism will destroy us."

I think we'll get socialism, but I don't think it will be from God. I mean, there are often natural consequences to my actions, which aren't necessarily introduced directly by God. That is, if I lie all the time, God won't cause people to not trust me, it just will happen as a result of me being untrustworthy.

Not a biggie anyway, and very good article! You take a great tone I think, and make good sense.

RonPaulVolunteer
01-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Awesome article!

I guess I have a minor theological disagreement with this line: "If we don't, God will give us the government we deserve, and as history has well shown, Socialism will destroy us."

I think we'll get socialism, but I don't think it will be from God. I mean, there are often natural consequences to my actions, which aren't necessarily introduced directly by God. That is, if I lie all the time, God won't cause people to not trust me, it just will happen as a result of me being untrustworthy.

Not a biggie anyway, and very good article! You take a great tone I think, and make good sense.

The Bible actually tells us that God gives a people the government they deserve, so you'll need to take that dispute up with Him :)

RonPaulVolunteer
01-15-2009, 12:57 PM
There are different names for God in the Bible.

Elohim, Yaweh, etc.


There were different tribes that formed Israel and some were polytheist (hence the multiple names) before they amalgamated it into a single deity.

Ah, no, Yeshua is the Lord's name in Hebrew, Jesus is the Lord's name in English. That's all.

And the rest you said is bunk, the tribes came out of the one, not the other way around. Sorry.

RonPaulVolunteer
01-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Well, I'm not religious, but i enjoyed that article and it's pretty sweet how you read along with Audiobook quality.

Actually, the quality of your voice with music is better than most audio books i buy, to be perfectly honest :cool:

Want to read some books onto mp3 for me? haha, jk

The article was good. Socialism truly is slavery, where you are ruled by everyone, with limits in your ability to succeed.


Good work man!

Forgive my ignorance, but why do Christians call gods son, Jesus and Hebrews call him Yeshua? Is there no hard proof of what this mans name was?

Sheesh, thank you... I will have trouble leaving the office today, my head will be so big I won't fit through the doorway :)

And about Yeshua/Jesus. One is his Hebrew name, the name Mary called Him by, while Jesus is a translation of Yeshua into English, through moving from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English. Which is why I prefer to call Him by the name his mother called Him by.

heavenlyboy34
01-15-2009, 01:04 PM
Sheesh, thank you... I will have trouble leaving the office today, my head will be so big I won't fit through the doorway :)

And about Yeshua/Jesus. One is his Hebrew name, the name Mary called Him by, while Jesus is a translation of Yeshua into English, through moving from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English. Which is why I prefer to call Him by the name his mother called Him by.

I also prefer to call him Yeshua. :) (Yeshua al-Yosif in full) It helps clarify the real person, the philosopher/rabbi/teacher Yeshua from the mythical/allegorical Roman figure named Jesu (Jesus in english).

yoshimaroka
01-15-2009, 01:37 PM
Ah, no, Yeshua is the Lord's name in Hebrew, Jesus is the Lord's name in English. That's all.

And the rest you said is bunk, the tribes came out of the one, not the other way around. Sorry.

My mistake on the tribes, memory is hazy from my Western Civilization class

It was either the Canaanites or the another group who were polytheist.

Soca Taliban
01-15-2009, 01:43 PM
If its forced, then its not charity.

RonPaulMania
01-15-2009, 04:40 PM
To even imply Our Blessed Savior, as some of you have said, was communist or an anarcho-socialist don't have a clue. Communism is dialectical materialism, and Our Lord was not a materialist. He wasn't a socialist either, or even remotely an anarchist in any way shape or form.

The government He most closely conformed to was a guild-society monarchy with distributism as it's root form of economy. Distributism is not socialism either.

Just because many of you just know capitalism or socialist terms doesn't give you a right to make nuanced views on others. The greatest crime of today is the intellectual insanity of having uneducated and ignorant people spouting off ridiculous statements in order to make discussions.

I'd rather have one discussion right, than 10 million wrong. I wouldn't mind debating either, but considering the decorum and decency showed to Our Blessed Lord I doubt the dignity given to Christ would be given by many here.

RonPaulMania
01-15-2009, 04:41 PM
Jesus rejected violent anything. :)

Ever read of Him taking a whip in the temple and driving out the people?

Knightskye
01-15-2009, 11:33 PM
Socialism purports to support the poor, say that 3 times really fast

:D

rich34
01-16-2009, 07:47 AM
Ever read of Him taking a whip in the temple and driving out the people?

Well, at least say who he drove out. The MONEYCHANGERS (bankers) of his day for setting up shop in the House of the Lord. And there is no mention of him striking anyone, only turning over the bankers tables and telling them to leave because they have made the House of the Lord a temple of theives.

Elwar
01-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Just because many of you just know capitalism or socialist terms doesn't give you a right to make nuanced views on others. The greatest crime of today is the intellectual insanity of having uneducated and ignorant people spouting off ridiculous statements in order to make discussions.


Are you the one handing out the rights on what views should be expressed? Or are you typing from China?

I mentioned the early church as being socialist or communist only because my liberal priest always talked about that period of the church almost in a nostalgic way and he offhandedly said it was akin to what we would today refer to as communist.

I am far from a historian, if you have further insight into the political aspect of it I would be pleased to learn more. I have read a few articles by libertarians trying their darndest to tout Jesus as being a libertarian because he promoted free choice and freedom. But it's not so easy to put him into any political category considering he tended toward preaching about God being the ultimate authority.

tremendoustie
01-16-2009, 09:29 AM
The Bible actually tells us that God gives a people the government they deserve, so you'll need to take that dispute up with Him :)

I don't remember that -- can I get a reference?

Minlawc
01-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Well, it all goes back to the "Old Testament" or the Torah. God's original government for his people was more of a Kritarchy. Then His people wanted a Monarchy. This made God angry because that wasn't appart of His original plan, and well, He's the real King. He eventually assented before the Hebrews revolted from God just to get their King.

Well, that's the story in a nutshell.

My view is; God doesn't WANT His people ruled by anyone but Him, He gets quite jealous you know. Jesus wasn't really political, to the dissapointment of many Jews of that time, so you really have to look back at the Father's view.

God is, what we would call, a Monarchist, but there is only one person he want's on that throne.

tremendoustie
01-16-2009, 10:13 AM
Well, it all goes back to the "Old Testament" or the Torah. God's original government for his people was more of a Kritarchy. Then His people wanted a Monarchy. This made God angry because that wasn't appart of His original plan, and well, He's the real King. He eventually assented before the Hebrews revolted from God just to get their King.

Well, that's the story in a nutshell.

My view is; God doesn't WANT His people ruled by anyone but Him, He gets quite jealous you know. Jesus wasn't really political, to the dissapointment of many Jews of that time, so you really have to look back at the Father's view.

God is, what we would call, a Monarchist, but there is only one person he want's on that throne.

God's God, no matter who we have in political power. Yeah, having a King was a very bad idea for Israel, as God pointed out -- you only need look at their history.

The fact that God is God doesn't imply monarchy -- the structure of the universe has little to do with what human political structures are appropriate, in my view.

In any case, I don't see where God says that in general he gives people the government they deserve, although something like that could be said to have happened with Israel.

Sayzak
01-16-2009, 10:30 AM
Was Jesus a Socialist? (http://godsipod.com/christian_podcasts/israel_anderson/files/was_jesus_a_socialist.html)

By yours truly.

Yeah, that's just what we need; a couple hundred million people convinced that socialism is jesus-like.

tremendoustie
01-16-2009, 10:33 AM
Yeah, that's just what we need; a couple hundred million people convinced that socialism is jesus-like.

???

He says that Jesus was not -- did you read it?

the biss
01-16-2009, 12:37 PM
I have long ascertained that Jesus was a socialist, not a Socialist. The difference is a heart issue. He said that the two greatest commandments are these: Love God and love your neighbor.

In (S)ocialism, what you have is taken from you and redistributed among all the people. In (s)ocialism, every in the group gives according to their ability and needs. This was the kind of socialism displayed by the early Christian church.

People were selling land and other assets to be able to freely give to people more needy than themselves. No one forced them to. No one put a gun to their heads, or threatened them with imprisonment.

Right now, in addition to my family (wife and three daughters), I have a homeless man living the mother-in-law apartment in our basement and a Kenyan pastor and his wife living in the two bedrooms upstairs.

My house is paid for (no mortgage), so we don't charge rent to them. My wife and I figure that God blessed us with a house that is paid for, why not spread that blessing around?

We share food, living quarters, utilities, and taxes. Are we socialist? Maybe, sure. And it works well for us. Mr. Bob (MIL apt dweller) is having some health issues right now. We can help him with those.

Mr. Joel (Kenyan) is saving money to go back to Africa. My understanding is that pastors in Kenya are paid in things like chickens and produce rather than currency. He needs some kind of nest egg to support him when he goes back. We think that by providing him with a rent-free place to live, he can build that account faster.

Right now as our friends and family lose jobs, we're even considering "How much privacy do we really need? Can we put even more people in here?"

No one has FORCED this decision on us. That's the difference. My family and I WANT to help these people with their housing needs. It's a heart issue, not a governmental issue.

ShannonOBrien
01-16-2009, 03:01 PM
May I ask why you had to live on the streets when you were young? If you don't want to share I understand and you can tell me to shut up. My uncle was homeless but he had a serious drug addiction.

centure7
01-16-2009, 03:12 PM
Was Jesus a Socialist? (http://godsipod.com/christian_podcasts/israel_anderson/files/was_jesus_a_socialist.html)

By yours truly.

Jesus was a communist. He advocated selling all worldly posessions. Presumably, you live by the support of others in addition to any personal hunting/gathering/farming.

Roxi
01-16-2009, 03:29 PM
im not sure but would you be mad if I made myself a tshirt that says "jesus was a socialist" :D

RonPaulVolunteer
01-21-2009, 01:51 AM
Bump for any that never got to see this...

idiom
01-21-2009, 02:39 AM
I found that Ayn Rands work shed a lot of light on what Jesus advocated, and what sin reallly is.

If the government set a 100% tax rate in a country, would that country be automatically filled with love and brotherhood?

One of the great mistakes of communism as practiced so far, is that it treats individuals as interchangeable. It is inherently soul destroying and soul denying.

Socialists seem to think that because love is a nice thing, the government should just force everybody to love one another.

jkm1864
01-21-2009, 06:42 AM
The only thing government mandated love creates is envy. I know I don't enjoy being one of the ones on the productive side. As a matter of fact it has caused me to hate my fellow man especially the ones whom have their thieving grubby hands in my pocket. Christianity teaches You to give with a glad heart and if You can't then paul tells You not to give ..... Another point in communisim their are still the rich ... Communism just opresses the middle class and brings them to the level of poverty to keep the rich into power .... So I am sorry communism is an obomination and God isagainst it ..... Doesn't the bible have plenty of references which state the man that doesn't work doesn't eat?

jkm1864
01-21-2009, 06:48 AM
Ever read of Him taking a whip in the temple and driving out the people?



Correction He didn't drive out people .... He drove out the money changers whom would later be known as internaional bankers .... See the Lord even hated bankers and whiped them with a scourge.

Joey Wahoo
01-21-2009, 11:46 AM
I am guessing because it's a different language, like John and Juan.



"Jesus" is just the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua, which in English is Joshua.

Confused?

Even though accurately we should be calling Jesus "Joshua", given that the NT was originally in Greek, and folks became accustomed to the name "Jesus," it has stuck.

RonPaulVolunteer
01-21-2009, 02:27 PM
"Jesus" is just the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua, which in English is Joshua.

Confused?

Even though accurately we should be calling Jesus "Joshua", given that the NT was originally in Greek, and folks became accustomed to the name "Jesus," it has stuck.

Actually, it's a little more complex than that.

Yeshua in Hebrew went to Greek, to Latin, to English to become Jesus.

His mother yelled out Yeshua at dinner time, so that's what I call Him. :)

apropos
01-21-2009, 02:58 PM
Socialism is an economic theory, while Christianity is a set of religious edicts. One is material; the other spiritual. Seems like apples to oranges to me.

The famous verse about the rich man getting into heaven reflects more the importance of spiritual matters over material matters than any of our modern economic theories, and socialism is decidedly material.

Truth Warrior
01-21-2009, 04:14 PM
The Libertarian From Nazareth? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/butler-b1.html)