How should public schools be funded?

[LittleLightShining]

How are schools funded where you are?

What is the ideal method of funding public education?

[Danke]

How are schools funded where you are?

What is the ideal method of funding public education?

Ideal would be no government involvement is education.

Private funding of private schools.

[LittleLightShining]

Ideal would be no government involvement is education.

Private funding of private schools.I agree. However until that becomes a reality public schools aren't going anywhere. In which case, how should they be funded?

[Matt Collins]

I agree. However until that becomes a reality public schools aren't going anywhere. In which case, how should they be funded?By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.

[Theocrat]

By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.

My sentiments exactly, Matt.

[ryanduff]

By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.

Yes, but this would't be considered fair. All the poor people living in the inner cities wouldn't be able to afford paying for each kid. That's counter productive to their method of more kids = more welfare.

Seriously though, in the end, we'd end up keeping all those people repressed and have a large uneducated class. Not that it matters because as a whole, children raised in the current public education system are uneducated.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Cut out the worthless curriculum and send home the students who don't want to be there.

Also, stop devoting so much time, money, and energy to fucking football.

[LittleLightShining]

By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.Is that how it's done in TN?

[angelatc]

Vouchers.

And if they cut out football they should also cut out art and music.

[LittleLightShining]

Vouchers.
Where does the revenue come from to support the vouchers?

[heavenlyboy34]

Vouchers.

And if they cut out football they should also cut out art and music.

Art and music are more practical knowledge for anyone living in western society, as they overlap with history and the social sciences (read classical philosophy if you don't believe me) in interesting and important ways. Phys ed can be done privately. (ideally, public/socialized schooling should be eliminated, tho)

[Fox McCloud]

I like France's system; from what I hear all sports are not allowed in school--if students want to get involved in that they get involved with groups after school, that way students can better focus on education.

Until we can fully privatize education, I support vouchers...it'll open up competition amongst schools, and still let the poor be able to attend.....this is why Europe's education system is so much better than ours; instead of attaching money to schools, like here in the US, they attach money to the students so they can pick where they want to go...so, instead of schools just outrightly competing against each other, they compete to get students.

that said, I view vouchers only as a temporary thing...eventually we need to fully privatize the education system.

[Theocrat]

Yes, but this would't be considered fair. All the poor people living in the inner cities wouldn't be able to afford paying for each kid. That's counter productive to their method of more kids = more welfare.

Seriously though, in the end, we'd end up keeping all those people repressed and have a large uneducated class. Not that it matters because as a whole, children raised in the current public education system are uneducated.

This issue gets back to the legitimacy of education. Ultimately, it is the parents role and responsibility to educate their children, according to the means and luxuries afforded to them by the fruits of the family's profession. Public education in America was started by local families on the condition that the schools would educate their kids by agreeable and suitable instruction. When the public schools failed to meet those requirements, then families had every right to withdraw their children and money from the institution and seek other means to educate their kids.

Sadly, parents who homeschool or send their children to private schools today have to pay twice for education: once for funding public schools (through property taxes) and twice for private education of their own kids. That is unfair, if anything. It is more than evident that most public schools are failing to educate the next generation, and it has more to do with the substance of the curriculum than the structure of the educational system (a topic for another thread).

Lower class families can be afforded more of an inexpensive education for their kids were our economy more free-market-based, as we all know. Churches could start more inexpensive schools (being non-profit ministries) and provide education to the poor and needy, as they've done in history past. Lower class families could also rely on grants and scholarships from private charity organizations to assist with educational needs in the home or at a private school. There are other ways to alleviate the economic burden of education for lower class families, but admittedly, it becomes more challenging in an economy such as our present one.

[nate895]

Getting rid of high school football is like banning apple pie to the average American, it will never be done.

As far as funding schools, I support school vouchers supported by state sales taxes, the lottery, a small corporate tax, and maybe a small capital gains tax.

[Fox McCloud]

Getting rid of high school football is like banning apple pie to the average American, it will never be done.

As far as funding schools, I support school vouchers supported by state sales taxes, the lottery, a small corporate tax, and maybe a small capital gains tax.

anything...and I mean anything but the property tax....and I'll be at least a little more happy.....

a family should be able to live in their home if they have it 100% payed for and not have to worry about it getting taken away from them.

[M House]

School's not there to provide you with the resources to build your muscles. I don't know how this concept of "physical" education got started. However you should have some break time to exercise or do homework throughout the day at school. They sometimes allow it but it should be atleast double what it is now.

[nate895]

anything...and I mean anything but the property tax....and I'll be at least a little more happy.....

a family should be able to live in their home if they have it 100% payed for and not have to worry about it getting taken away from them.

There is a reason I didn't include the property tax.

[nate895]

School's not there to provide you with the resources to build your muscles. I don't know how this concept of "physical" education got started. However you should have some break time to exercise or do homework throughout the day at school. They sometimes allow it but it should be atleast double what it is now.

From the standpoint of the average American, high school football is part of the fabric of America, and they are right, it is. If you are going to get rid of physical extracurricular activities, you should get rid of all of them. There is no real point to knowledge bowl other than knowing a bunch of random facts, speech and debate isn't that important, we'd have to give up those things too if we did that.

As far as the merits of high school sports, they provide a cheap way for less fortunate children to play sports, and they build comradeship between you, your community, and the team you play on.

[Fox McCloud]

There is a reason I didn't include the property tax.

there's a particular area (I forget where), but the school(s) were payed for entirely by a corporate income tax on the local businesses...if only more counties and States would use this methodology.

[Matt Collins]

Yes, but this would't be considered fair. All the poor people living in the inner cities wouldn't be able to afford paying for each kid. That's counter productive to their method of more kids = more welfare. And taking people's money who don't have children in school to fund other people's kids' education is "fair"?:confused:


Seriously though, in the end, we'd end up keeping all those people repressed and have a large uneducated class. Not that it matters because as a whole, children raised in the current public education system are uneducated.There ya go. So since "society" is churning out a bunch of uneducated heathens anyway, why should we continue to waste money on it? :rolleyes:

[Matt Collins]

Is that how it's done in TN?No but I wish it was.

[Brian4Liberty]

What is the ideal method of funding public education?

At the local level, with local control.

Maybe have parents pay, and charity can pay for those who can't afford it. Basic education is one thing that should not be denied to people. And basic education should include true, responsible financial education, as well as the 3 R's...

[jack555]

From the standpoint of the average American, high school football is part of the fabric of America, and they are right, it is. If you are going to get rid of physical extracurricular activities, you should get rid of all of them. There is no real point to knowledge bowl other than knowing a bunch of random facts, speech and debate isn't that important, we'd have to give up those things too if we did that.

As far as the merits of high school sports, they provide a cheap way for less fortunate children to play sports, and they build comradeship between you, your community, and the team you play on.



Did you seriously just compare speech and debate to football?

What has happened to this forum. I leave for like a week and I come back and people are saying such idiotic things.

[RickyJ]

How are schools funded where you are?

What is the ideal method of funding public education?

Public education should be eliminated. It does much more harm than it does good.

[Danke]

Did you seriously just compare speech and debate to football?

What has happened to this forum. I leave for like a week and I come back and people are saying such idiotic things.

So it's your fault. Next time find a responsible replacement before you take a week off.

[heavenlyboy34]

So it's your fault. Next time find a responsible replacement before you take a week off.

It's hard to find a good sub! :eek: Look how hard it's been to replace TW when he was suspended. Could you imagine what it would be like trying to find a sub for ME? Talk about work! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:!!!

[angelatc]

Where does the revenue come from to support the vouchers?

I don't know. I like user fees for things like this. Inner city public schools haven't had much luck despite large amounts of funding.

[angelatc]

School's not there to provide you with the resources to build your muscles. I don't know how this concept of "physical" education got started. However you should have some break time to exercise or do homework throughout the day at school. They sometimes allow it but it should be atleast double what it is now.

I am guessing you didn't play sports. There's a lot to be said for the concepts that it teaches as far as teamwork, cooperation and a sense of community. It also provides the inspiration for some mediocre students to strive for that all important passing grade.

However, I think that the schools would be fine without football, art, and music classes. If the NFL wants to use the schools as their training grounds. then let them subsidize it.

[pinkmandy]

Locally funded would be my preference as well as locally controlled. Leave it up to the locals to decide what they want to fund and how to raise the funds.

I'm pretty sure that NH depends heavily on it's lottery to fund schools?

[heavenlyboy34]

I am guessing you didn't play sports. There's a lot to be said for the concepts that it teaches as far as teamwork, cooperation and a sense of community. It also provides the inspiration for some mediocre students to strive for that all important passing grade.

However, I think that the schools would be fine without football, art, and music classes. If the NFL wants to use the schools as their training grounds. then let them subsidize it.

The classical Greeks would disagree with you. Art, music, history, philosophy, and literature were critical to the curriculum. ;)

[Paulitician]

Every "student" should become an autodidactic. There, no more need for schools, or teachers.

[angelatc]

Art and music are more practical knowledge for anyone living in western society, as they overlap with history and the social sciences (read classical philosophy if you don't believe me) in interesting and important ways. Phys ed can be done privately. (ideally, public/socialized schooling should be eliminated, tho)


Art and music can be done privately too. The world doesn't need any more mediocre clarinet players.

Like I said in my earlier post, sports teach community and teamwork.

[angelatc]

The classical Greeks would disagree with you. Art, music, history, philosophy, and literature were critical to the curriculum. ;)

Yes, when deciding on what schools would best suit my kids, the first thing I ask myself is "What would the ancient Greeks do?"

[pinkmandy]

The classical Greeks would disagree with you. Art, music, history, philosophy, and literature were critical to the curriculum. ;)


That's true and I agree BUT their methods were also different. Instead of trying to fill a kid's head with random bits and pieces to memorize for a test they encouraged in depth study and questioning...

It isn't as much what is being taught today, it's how it's being taught. We aren't creating critical thinkers with the current methods.

As a homeschooler, we do study the classics. The Well Trained Mind is an excellent resource for classical education or to supplement your child if he/she is public schooled.

[LittleLightShining]

there's a particular area (I forget where), but the school(s) were payed for entirely by a corporate income tax on the local businesses...if only more counties and States would use this methodology.

How would that affect the business climate in a community?


Public education should be eliminated. It does much more harm than it does good.I agree but the NEA has a chokehold on public education.

I guess I should reframe the question-- what is the best (realistic) way to fund public education?

[mediahasyou]

The modern school system is inefficient. Many are dropping out. Students learn topics completely irrelevant to their future lives and careers.

Before the public schools, internship and on the job training gave people the necessary skills. Self education and books helped others. These options are all "free" in todays world.

[heavenlyboy34]

Art and music can be done privately too. The world doesn't need any more mediocre clarinet players.

Like I said in my earlier post, sports teach community and teamwork.

So does band, choir, orchestra, debate team, scouting, etc. :) Sports can be done privately likewise. You would just pay up front instead of via taxes.

[heavenlyboy34]

That's true and I agree BUT their methods were also different. Instead of trying to fill a kid's head with random bits and pieces to memorize for a test they encouraged in depth study and questioning...

It isn't as much what is being taught today, it's how it's being taught. We aren't creating critical thinkers with the current methods.

As a homeschooler, we do study the classics. The Well Trained Mind is an excellent resource for classical education or to supplement your child if he/she is public schooled.

Great! Nice to hear you've got good stuff for your kids to read. That kind of stuff wasn't so accessible when I was in school. :(

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes, when deciding on what schools would best suit my kids, the first thing I ask myself is "What would the ancient Greeks do?"

It's not so much an issue of being "Greek" as getting a sound, all-around education.

[Kludge]

Vouchers.

And if they cut out football they should also cut out art and music.

This. One of 8 or so policy decisions I agreed with McCain on. After this, the Department of Education ought to be eliminated and then "public" funding for education altogether.

Extracurricular activities should be eliminated, IMO, and all classes (NOT "departments") should be given a set budget they are not to exceed under any circumstance. If people feel a class is important enough to exist, they can do some type of "boosters" program to fund it.

Lol... History department at my school was always over-funded. They'd take us on admittedly pointless field trips (we once went to some WWII veterans' memorial where angry old men with Alzheimer's yelled at us about Patriotism, God, and tornadoes) and purchase videos we'd watch which hardly related to the time period we were covering.

[Conservative Christian]

Getting rid of football would be foolish, not because of any alleged "community" and "teamwork" benefits that would be lost, but because it provides a MASSIVE amount of income for schools at both the high school and collegiate level.

Football programs at many universities bring in MILLIONS of dollars in revenue to their respective schools. Football MORE than pays for itself many times over.

Ticket sales; merchandise sales; TV/Radio broadcasting rights; TV/Radio advertising; food/beverage/snack sales, fund-raising events; etc. etc.---all combine to bring in millions of dollars to many schools.

For fiscal year 2005, the top 20 collegiate football programs had profit margins averaging SIXTY PERCENT, with a few of them around seventy five percent.

High school football programs obviously don't derive as much income as collegiate ones do, but the vast majority of them are still quite profitable.

Football is BIG business, and HIGHLY profitable for most schools. If schools were to lose the enormous income they receive from their football programs, the taxpayers would end up footing the bill instead.


.

[heavenlyboy34]

Every "student" should become an autodidactic. There, no more need for schools, or teachers.

I like this idea! I had to learn to do this because I used to be too shy to talk to people, and I turned out pretty well. :)

[jack555]

The classical Greeks would disagree with you. Art, music, history, philosophy, and literature were critical to the curriculum. ;)

What was important to classical greeks is not necessrily important to us today. Historically geometry was considered a low subject, kind of like the arts today, and yet today geometry is integral to math and math is considered a difficult and well respected subject.

I played trombone in public schools for 8 years...I loved it. However, it is not needed.

the same can be said for art.

[heavenlyboy34]

What was important to classical greeks is not necessrily important to us today. Historically geometry was considered a low subject, kind of like the arts today, and yet today geometry is integral to math and math is considered a difficult and well respected subject.

I played trombone in public schools for 8 years...I loved it. However, it is not needed.

the same can be said for art.

You don't have to become a virtuoso, but getting a basic understanding of the arts and literature goes a long way toward expanding one's understanding of the world. (in my experience)

[asimplegirl]

This issue gets back to the legitimacy of education. Ultimately, it is the parents role and responsibility to educate their children, according to the means and luxuries afforded to them by the fruits of the family's profession. Public education in America was started by local families on the condition that the schools would educate their kids by agreeable and suitable instruction. When the public schools failed to meet those requirements, then families had every right to withdraw their children and money from the institution and seek other means to educate their kids.

Sadly, parents who homeschool or send their children to private schools today have to pay twice for education: once for funding public schools (through property taxes) and twice for private education of their own kids. That is unfair, if anything. It is more than evident that most public schools are failing to educate the next generation, and it has more to do with the substance of the curriculum than the structure of the educational system (a topic for another thread).

Lower class families can be afforded more of an inexpensive education for their kids were our economy more free-market-based, as we all know. Churches could start more inexpensive schools (being non-profit ministries) and provide education to the poor and needy, as they've done in history past. Lower class families could also rely on grants and scholarships from private charity organizations to assist with educational needs in the home or at a private school. There are other ways to alleviate the economic burden of education for lower class families, but admittedly, it becomes more challenging in an economy such as our present one.


WOW. I agree with Theo.


By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.

AND...I agree with Matt

[LittleLightShining]

Locally funded would be my preference as well as locally controlled. Leave it up to the locals to decide what they want to fund and how to raise the funds.

I'm pretty sure that NH depends heavily on it's lottery to fund schools?

Vermont schools used to be locally funded until the supreme court decided that was unconstitutional. It seems that some towns were offering a "better" (more expensive) education to their public school students than others and the court ruled that public school funding had to be "fair." The legislature came up with two pieces of legislation which set a statewide property tax, prebate and rebate payments for lower income families and huge, huge increases in property tax rates in very rural "land rich" towns.

The state is now seeing a budget deficit and the governor is looking for cuts in education spending. Class sizes are decreasing yet the cost of education keeps on going.

I'm interested in hearing public school funding success stories-- do they exist?

[danberkeley]

School's not there to provide you with the resources to build your muscles. I don't know how this concept of "physical" education got started. However you should have some break time to exercise or do homework throughout the day at school. They sometimes allow it but it should be atleast double what it is now.

I think it had something to do with the government wanting to keep kids fit for war.

[Conservative Christian]

Vermont schools used to be locally funded until the supreme court decided that was unconstitutional. It seems that some towns were offering a "better" (more expensive) education to their public school students than others and the court ruled that public school funding had to be "fair." The legislature came up with two pieces of legislation which set a statewide property tax, prebate and rebate payments for lower income families and huge, huge increases in property tax rates in very rural "land rich" towns.

The state is now seeing a budget deficit and the governor is looking for cuts in education spending. Class sizes are decreasing yet the cost of education keeps on going.

I'm interested in hearing public school funding success stories-- do they exist?

Secular government school "success" stories are few and far between, whether it comes to funding or anything else.

A lot of Christians have the right idea---many are either sending their kids to private Christian schools or homeschooling them.

On average, homeschooled children are easily outperforming secular government school kids on standardized tests, as well as virtually every significant academic subject.


.

[danberkeley]

Locally funded would be my preference as well as locally controlled. Leave it up to the locals to decide what they want to fund and how to raise the funds.

I'm pretty sure that NH depends heavily on it's lottery to fund schools?

Yes. This would be preferable to having the state government or the federal government control it.

[LittleLightShining]

Secular government school "success" stories are few and far between, whether it comes to funding or anything else.

A lot of Christians have the right idea---many are either sending their kids to private Christian schools or homeschooling them.

On average, homeschooled children are easily outperforming secular government school kids on standardized tests, as well as virtually every significant academic subject.
I realize this and I agree. What we're seeing right now is a completely unsustainable system collapsing (sound familiar?), a Republican governor willing to make changes, an overwhelmingly Democratic legislature and the NEA with a noose around taxpayers.

I guess if it was so easy to come up with a truly equitable system we wouldn't be in the position we're in, would we?

[heavenlyboy34]

Secular government school "success" stories are few and far between, whether it comes to funding or anything else.

A lot of Christians have the right idea---many are either sending their kids to private Christian schools or homeschooling them.

On average, homeschooled children are easily outperforming secular government school kids on standardized tests, as well as virtually every significant academic subject.


.

qft Wasn't it just a few years ago that a home schooler won the National Spelling Bee?

[nate895]

Did you seriously just compare speech and debate to football?

What has happened to this forum. I leave for like a week and I come back and people are saying such idiotic things.

I am a high school student in speech and debate and knowledge bowl, but who only attends football games when my friends force me to come along.

[Conservative Christian]

qft Wasn't it just a few years ago that a home schooler won the National Spelling Bee?

Home schoolers have won both the National Spelling Bee and the National Geography Bee on multiple occasions.

Home schoolers have also won national contests in mathematics; science/technology; essay writing; debate etc.

Please remember that they only comprise about 2% of all students in the USA.


.

[heavenlyboy34]

I am a high school student in speech and debate and knowledge bowl, but who only attends football games when my friends force me to come along.

A coercive use of force? :eek: Egads! Fend them off with your copy of the Revolution Manifesto, sir! ;):D

[heavenlyboy34]

Home schoolers have won both the National Spelling Bee and the National Geography Bee on multiple occasions.

Home schoolers have also won national contests in mathematics; science/technology; essay writing; debate etc.

Please remember that they only comprise about 2% of all school students in the USA.


.

:D Homeschoolers rock! :)

[nate895]

A coercive use of force? :eek: Egads! Fend them off with your copy of the Revolution Manifesto, sir! ;):D

Not coercive, I think force was probably to strong a word, probably convince is better.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Paulitician]

I hate the atheist anti-homeschooling crowd because god forbid parents are actually teaching religious crap to their children (oh, I'm an atheist too BTW). It's not like State-sanctioned propaganda/revisionism is any better. That's why I'm against both indoctrination from both parents or government--autodidactism FTW.

[torchbearer]

user taxes.

[tremendoustie]

I like vouchers very much as an intermediate step, but ultimately we need a voluntary form of funding or full privitization. I think loans/charities/work and study could help those who can't afford it. Also, the apprenticeship model is one that has been lost, but I think is very valid.

Homeschooler here by the way. I recommend it very strongly. You don't need to be super-educated to teach your kids, you only need to be able to work a bit ahead of them in the textbook, and be willing to take the time to help them. You'll almost certainly do much, much better than the public school system. Homeschooling average scores on the SAT are 81 points higher than the national average, and almost all of my friends did much, much better than that.

Also, there are co-ops, where homeschooling families get together once or twice a week, and each parent teaches a class in the area of their expertise.

There's actually one funny story -- I had a one really smart friend. Our homeschooling group had a "memory day" -- I recited the gettysburg address (which isn't terribly long) -- she recited the entire Ryme of the Ancient Mariner with full dramatic flair (all 7 parts). It was funny to see people squirm, and try to decide it it would be rude to get up to get a drink or some food in the middle. Anyhow, she got a perfect score on the SAT, and a full four year ride to harvard, but get this, was turned down at the university of new hampshire. This was kind of early on in homeschooling, so I guess their computer just spat her application out or something. Anyway, kind of funny. I guess that's government administration for you.

[Number19]

Getting rid of football would be foolish, not because of any alleged "community" and "teamwork" benefits that would be lost, but because it provides a MASSIVE amount of income for schools at both the high school and collegiate level.

Football programs at many universities bring in MILLIONS of dollars in revenue to their respective schools. Football MORE than pays for itself many times over.

Ticket sales; merchandise sales; TV/Radio broadcasting rights; TV/Radio advertising; food/beverage/snack sales, fund-raising events; etc. etc.---all combine to bring in millions of dollars to many schools.

For fiscal year 2005, the top 20 collegiate football programs had profit margins averaging SIXTY PERCENT, with a few of them around seventy five percent.

High school football programs obviously don't derive as much income as collegiate ones do, but the vast majority of them are still quite profitable.

Football is BIG business, and HIGHLY profitable for most schools. If schools were to lose the enormous income they receive from their football programs, the taxpayers would end up footing the bill instead..

It is a question of values. What do you want your kids to value more? Hard working Americans taking responsibility and paying for the education of their children or a free ride from the football team?

Your reply may determine the amount of news stories I dig up on high school and college athletes who have failing grades and still start...

C.C. is right on concerning football, at least in Texas. High school football is a revenue generator, and in most schools this revenue goes toward funding other sports.

I can't speak towards today's schools, but when I played H.S. football, you had to carry a C average to be eligible. Also, all football activity, except for the weekly pep rally, was outside normal school hours and did not interfere with your education.

Sports was introduced into the educational system because it builds character, leadership, team work and responsibility. These are all qualities not learned in books and athletes, after becoming adults in the community, continued to exhibit these character traits. This was back then.

I think it is probably the non-athletic who support removing sports from education. And I don't think I read, but the Greeks valued sports as well as the mind. They,after all, invented the Olympics.

As for funding of education, I too, advocate a private school system. But as an intermediate step, the first thing to do is to remove all federal funding and at the state level, get all funding back to the local community. What the naysayers to this proposal never say is that we have freedom to decide where we want to live.

[heavenlyboy34]

I have a LOT of respect for you homeschool parents. You're awesome! :D Keep up the good work. ~hugs~ :)


I like vouchers very much as an intermediate step, but ultimately we need a voluntary form of funding or full privitization. I think loans/charities/work and study could help those who can't afford it. Also, the apprenticeship model is one that has been lost, but I think is very valid.

Homeschooler here by the way. I recommend it very strongly. You don't need to be super-educated to teach your kids, you only need to be able to work a bit ahead of them in the textbook, and be willing to take the time to help them. You'll almost certainly do much, much better than the public school system. Homeschooling average scores on the SAT are 81 points higher than the national average, and almost all of my friends did much, much better than that.

Also, there are co-ops, where homeschooling families get together once or twice a week, and each parent teaches a class in the area of their expertise.

There's actually one funny story -- I had a one really smart friend. Our homeschooling group had a "memory day" -- I recited the gettysburg address (which isn't terribly long) -- she recited the entire Ryme of the Ancient Mariner with full dramatic flair (all 7 parts). It was funny to see people squirm, and try to decide it it would be rude to get up to get a drink or some food in the middle. Anyhow, she got a perfect score on the SAT, and a full four year ride to harvard, but get this, was turned down at the university of new hampshire. This was kind of early on in homeschooling, so I guess their computer just spat her application out or something. Anyway, kind of funny. I guess that's government administration for you.

[tremendoustie]

I have a LOT of respect for you homeschool parents. You're awesome! :D Keep up the good work. ~hugs~ :)

Thanks! I actually meant that I was homeschooled though -- we do plan to do it with our kids as well, but no kiddos as of yet ;).

[asimplegirl]

I plan on homeschooling my future children with the "unschooling" method.

Fits both dh and I well.

[HOLLYWOOD]

By user fees... charging the parents of each student that attends.

Property taxes would be abolished and so would compulsory attendance.


Damn Right!

The Socialism and Federal Garbage has to stop! People, especially single, that are childless, are screwed by these types of Collectivisms.

[Conza88]

How are schools funded where you are?

What is the ideal method of funding public education?

The more ANTI-STATE, PRO MARKET, ANTI WAR your school curriculum is - the more funding you get.

Other than that - NO FUNDING. Public schools go bust. Or become so shit no-one will send their kids.

[Paulitician]

I plan on homeschooling my future children with the "unschooling" method.

Fits both dh and I well.
Terrific choice!

[asimplegirl]

Well, thank you, I agree. :)

[Conservative Christian]

It is a question of values. What do you want your kids to value more? Hard working Americans taking responsibility and paying for the education of their children or a free ride from the football team?

Your reply may determine the amount of news stories I dig up on high school and college athletes who have failing grades and still start...

Football brings in MILLIONS of dollars for many colleges around the country.

Not all that money goes back into the football program or athletic department.

A good portion of that money is used for sustaining and improving the ACADEMIC departments, school operating expenses etc.

College football is a multi-billion dollar business. If every college in the country canceled it's football program, the taxpayers would end up having to cover the lost revenue.

High School football isn't as big a business, but it still brings in a lot of money for thousands of schools around the country. Once again, if that source of revenue was lost, taxpayers would get nailed for it instead.


.

[tremendoustie]

Football brings in MILLIONS of dollars for many colleges around the country.

Not all that money goes back into the football program or athletic department.

A good portion of that money is used for sustaining and improving the ACADEMIC departments, school operating expenses etc.

College football is a multi-billion dollar business. If every college in the country canceled it's football program, the taxpayers would end up having to cover the lost revenue.

High School football isn't as big a business, but it still brings in a lot of money for thousands of schools around the country. Once again, if that source of revenue was lost, taxpayers would get nailed for it instead.


.

Yeah, football's legit. Although, it does bother me a bit that sometimes football players can graduate from decent programs when they can barely read and write.

Can there be a football major, so everyone knows that that's what they're good at, instead of communications or geology or something?

[ryanduff]

Vouchers.

And if they cut out football they should also cut out art and music.

I don't think he meant stop playing football. I think he meant stop building multi-million dollar turf football fields on the taxpayer's dime.

[ryanduff]

And taking people's money who don't have children in school to fund other people's kids' education is "fair"?:confused:

There ya go. So since "society" is churning out a bunch of uneducated heathens anyway, why should we continue to waste money on it? :rolleyes:

Heh. My bad for not adding the sarcasm tag to my original post!

[LittleLightShining]

I like vouchers very much as an intermediate step, but ultimately we need a voluntary form of funding or full privitization. I think loans/charities/work and study could help those who can't afford it. Also, the apprenticeship model is one that has been lost, but I think is very valid.

I'm still not hearing any practical suggestions for funding the vouchers. In states where the property tax doesn't exist how is education funded?


The more ANTI-STATE, PRO MARKET, ANTI WAR your school curriculum is - the more funding you get.

Other than that - NO FUNDING. Public schools go bust. Or become so shit no-one will send their kids.Conza, you are really optimistic! People are always going to send their kids to the "free" government school no matter how terrible they are.

[Conza88]

Conza, you are really optimistic! People are always going to send their kids to the "free" government school no matter how terrible they are.

True.. schools are practically day care centers these days... THUS child labor laws should be abolished. :D

[asimplegirl]

dh's ex send their son to public school, though we want to homeschool him.

She said it is a free babysitter for 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, 2 free meals a day since she is a single mother, and also, any extra activities (after school, on weekends) that the bus picks him up for and drops him off, after providing him with a free meal.

Sharing the cost of books and curriculum so that the child can get a good education is not an option for her. Even if we paid for everything. She says she would have to hire a babysitter when she works, and pay for gas to pick him up and drop him off.

Some people like relying on the government.

[heavenlyboy34]

dh's ex send their son to public school, though we want to homeschool him.

She said it is a free babysitter for 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week, 2 free meals a day since she is a single mother, and also, any extra activities (after school, on weekends) that the bus picks him up for and drops him off, after providing him with a free meal.

Sharing the cost of books and curriculum so that the child can get a good education is not an option for her. Even if we paid for everything. She says she would have to hire a babysitter when she works, and pay for gas to pick him up and drop him off.

Some people like relying on the government.

Bummer. :( Kinda like Soc security dependents, eh? ;) lol

[The_Orlonater]

Radical overthrow of the system, it's not like the kids will die for a few months not going to school. It's not like they accomplish much.

[asimplegirl]

Bummer. :( Kinda like Soc security dependents, eh? ;) lol

some people are forced to rely on the government, some people LIKE to rely on them.

But, yes, kinda. :)

[Andrew-Austin]

To be frank, people do not have a 'right' to an education. And really I feel awkward using that word, as very little learning goes on at all in public schools. Its all just temporary memorization for the sake of multiple choice tests, including many topics you may be completely disinterested in or determined not to get involved with career wise.

In history class, you might be told how FDR saved everyone from the Great Depression, and how it was absolutely necessary for the US to enter wars X Y and Z.
And going through a course on government you might be given the impression that the checks and balances system actually works, and that the "necessary and proper" clause can justify whatever the fuck a politician dreams of. My specific disagreements on the content of what is taught however, is not all that important. What I'm trying to get at is, at least with a more privatized education system there would be more diversity and freedom. What is spun as some noble egalitarian goal, is really but a shitty way of teaching/raising kids, and a great way of indoctrinating them from the state's perspective.

Having one under-payed lady preach and write shit on a board to a classroom of thirty kids for an hour each day, while rotating classes, never struck me as the most brilliant education strategy. I'm sure its about as much as the government can provide however, when promising every citizen the same exact schooling (more or less) as everyone else "for FREE".




Some people like relying on the government.

*sighs*

Yeah, the government loves having people rely on it too.. Kinda seems to be a self perpetuating cycle that only grows as time goes by.... Where in the past it only required one to support a large family, government inflation has rendered this impossible today.

[asimplegirl]

Yeah, it's pretty damned stupid if you think about it.

You know while learning nursery rhymes I learned : Hump Dumpy"...never knew that wasn't right until dh corrected me, will never let me live it down. Pronounces subtle, "sub-tul".

Alot of public schools really suck and teach us nothing. Those of us that found it extremely dumb had to learn for ourselves anyway, or just not learn. I wasn't really taught anything except how to pass IOWA, CAT, and LEAP tests. I swear it.

[The_Orlonater]

I learne a lot of weird things, I learned some cool new things, but some weird things. You should see the obamalove in my school.

[dr. hfn]

Cut out the worthless curriculum and send home the students who don't want to be there.

Also, stop devoting so much time, money, and energy to fucking football.

aye

[SimpleName]

Cut out the worthless curriculum and send home the students who don't want to be there.

Also, stop devoting so much time, money, and energy to fucking football.

Absolutely. It is obvious that rebellion in the teenage years is greatly fueled by compulsory attendance laws and the fools who go along with it. At a time in a person's life when they want to explore their own personal interests and try to figure themselves out, they are constantly being dragged along in the state-approved curriculum. Nevermind the child's interests or goals. Lets instead worry about the parents' reputation and the government's low-grade, sub-standard (although now it is the standard) education.

And yes, STOP WASTING MONEY ON FOOTBALL! And all other sports for that matter. Purely the maintenance to take care of sports fields and weight machines must be a fortune. Add in the team uniforms and footballs, baseballs, basketballs, and whatever other instruments...then DAMN! All of that money was ripped away from students trying to learn. With our current system, sports and many other extra-curriculars should be funded by those taking part in it, especially since many enter school sports only for their transcripts.

In the end, public schools could stick around, but it should be funded purely by the people who send their children to the school. Over time, public schools will fade away unless their performance skyrockets quickly.