Wall St. Journal: Israel Is Committing War Crimes

[Knightskye]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154826952369919.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I went to the Google News homepage (news.google.com), saw that, and I was like, "Where am I?"


Israel's current assault on the Gaza Strip cannot be justified by self-defense. Rather, it involves serious violations of international law, including war crimes.

[Spike]

I was shocked by that too. I had one of those twilight moments.

I think its just a flicker in the darkness. The MSM has to at least, to maintain any sense of credibility (not saying that it has any), publish a story criticizing the Gaza offensive.

[M House]

But we commit war crimes too...

[torchbearer]

I don't see how you have "rules" to war...
The goal is to destroy your opponent or make them submit to your will be force...
And if you are the defender, your goal is self preservation at all cost.
I see no rules in that game... except the winner takes all and writes history... the loser is gone.

[Knightskye]

I don't see how you have "rules" to war...
The goal is to destroy your opponent or make them submit to your will be force...
And if you are the defender, your goal is self preservation at all cost.
I see no rules in that game... except the winner takes all and writes history... the loser is gone.

You do that.

[torchbearer]

You do that.

Do what?

[Kilrain]

I don't see how you have "rules" to war...
The goal is to destroy your opponent or make them submit to your will be force...
And if you are the defender, your goal is self preservation at all cost.
I see no rules in that game... except the winner takes all and writes history... the loser is gone.

Whole lotta Sherman, but no Lee in this post. ;)

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[torchbearer]

Whole lotta Sherman, but no Lee in this post. ;)

the patriots of the american revolution didn't fight by the "rules" either..
My post = whole lotta Samual Adams

[beerista]

the patriots of the american revolution didn't fight by the "rules" either..
My post = whole lotta Samual Adams

If picking off an invading force from behind trees rather than lining up in fields fodder-style is analogous to being the invading force knocking down civilian structures with the civilians inside, I'm afraid I lost you point somewhere.

[M House]

Same here that and the we need to torture to win argument have pretty much been our downfall. Obviously terrorizing civilians doesn't win anything militarily despite what some commanders might think. So what if they fear you or are tired of death. I think the world kinda proves having uncontrolled warfare a pretty easy way to perpetuate conflict long after it has "ended".

[torchbearer]

If picking off an invading force from behind trees rather than lining up in fields fodder-style is analogous to being the invading force knocking down civilian structures with the civilians inside, I'm afraid I lost you point somewhere.

If your men are being picked off by snipers in those buildings and you do nothing about it.. i think you are missing the point.

[M House]

You do what the British did to save lives....leave.

[torchbearer]

Same here that and the we need to torture to win argument have pretty much been our downfall. Obviously terrorizing civilians doesn't win anything militarily despite what some commanders might think. So what if they fear you or are tired of death. I think the world kinda proves having uncontrolled warfare a pretty easy way to perpetuate conflict long after it has "ended".

History shows that the most successful campaigns are those where the victor either eliminates an entire people are ships them off to other parts of the world.

That is why war should be last resort, and should only be used as a defense of survival... but when that survival is threatened... really threatened... you will do whatever it takes to survive.

[torchbearer]

You do what the British did to save lives....leave.

Didn't really save lives, people die everyday to some kind of violence.
Kinda like the story of the marine who survives Iraq, but is gunned down at his home in miami...

[M House]

I think insisting on prolonging the Revolutionary War would've been pretty bad. I mean I'm kinda glad we don't have a British Colonial occupation going on right now to stir up stuff seeing what a wonderful job they did much later when they occupied the middle east.

[torchbearer]

There is only one rule to war: Kill the other guy before he kills you.
if following these "other rules" gets you killed, then you are a dumbass.

The country who has put "rules of engagement" on its troops have tied their hands behind their back.
The people who fight for survival with no rules but self preservation have the best chance for survival.

[M House]

Um, okay....
We haven't won alot of wars in recent time. Best chance for our survival in the Middle East is to leave. Having a lax policy on killing civilians and torturing doesn't give you less enemies for sure. Unless you wanna pull some genocide out, it might be best to deescalate conflicts.

[torchbearer]

Um, okay....
We haven't won alot of wars in recent time. Best chance for our survival in the Middle East is to leave. Having a lax policy on killing civilians and torturing doesn't give you less enemies for sure. Unless you wanna pull some genocide out, it might be best to deescalate conflicts.

I'm not talking about our interventions, I'm talking about war in general.
We are not fighting to preserve our survival, we are fighting to enrich the military industrial complex.
We are fighting to not win.

[beerista]

If your men are being picked off by snipers in those buildings and you do nothing about it.. i think you are missing the point.

Just collateral damage, eh?
It's a good thing that killing bystanders never generates blowback, or this might never end.

[torchbearer]

Just collateral damage, eh?
It's a good thing that killing bystanders never generates blowback, or this might never end.

When your ass is being pinned down by sniper fire... and even worse... you lay bleeding to death from sniper fire... rest peacefully knowing your life could have been spared had that building been taken out.
When you are fighting a war.. the people on the other side want you dead. DEAD.
remember that...
And given the option, they blow your family up to preserve their life if a sniper was hiding in your home.

If you are a civilian and you don't want to die, either pick up a rifle and fight (you at least have a chance to defend yourself), or run... and keep running like forrest gump.

[M House]

An average sized 500lb bomb will damage or destroy several buildings. They often drop larger 1000lb bombs. A cluster munition is even nastier. Several dead families to save your ass if they got the right building. You should've been in an armored vehicle or not there in the first place. Military also needs if they haven't already a marksman in your team so BS like this doesn't happen. I mean we have plenty of snipers shooting people after curfew, already.

[torchbearer]

An average sized 500lb bomb will damage or destroy several buildings. They often drop larger 1000lb bombs. A cluster munition is even nastier. Several dead families to save your ass if they got the right building. You should've been in an armored vehicle or not there in the first place. Military also needs if they haven't already a marksman in your team so BS like this doesn't happen. I mean we have plenty of snipers shooting people after curfew, already.

Oh, I see now why people's responses seem so retarded.
You think I'm talking about Israel. WHo is not fighting for its survival... more like a jailor try to keep the inmates quiet.

Palestinians are fighting for their survival, and they should use any means necesary to do so. No rules.
Get it?

[M House]

Not hard to agree on that looking at the news though I'm not a bit fan of suicide bomber routine either. They have the right to fight the Israeli army for their own survival.

[Knightskye]

There is only one rule to war: Kill the other guy before he kills you.
if following these "other rules" gets you killed, then you are a dumbass.

The country who has put "rules of engagement" on its troops have tied their hands behind their back.
The people who fight for survival with no rules but self preservation have the best chance for survival.

Should the US use torture if it seems like it can help us win a war?

[torchbearer]

Should the US use torture if it seems like it can help us win a war?

"if"
do you really think you can get good info from torture?

You are more likely to get an honest answer if you got stoned with the guy.

[Vet_from_cali]

thats not what "joe the plumber" said. He said the Israelis are acting courageous!!!!


http://i44.tinypic.com/2w1siz9.jpg

[nbruno322]

.....

[Vet_from_cali]

lol, imma stop posting cuz i tend to kill threads with my nonsense

[Pauls' Revere]

[QUOTE=torchbearer;1904779]There is only one rule to war: Kill the other guy before he kills you.
if following these "other rules" gets you killed, then you are a dumbass.


"Your job is NOT to die for your country!, your job is to make the OTHER basturd die for his"! - Gen. George Patton

:D

[Vet_from_cali]

[QUOTE=torchbearer;1904779]There is only one rule to war: Kill the other guy before he kills you.
if following these "other rules" gets you killed, then you are a dumbass.


"Your job is NOT to die for your country!, your job is to make the OTHER basturd die for his"! - Gen. George Patton

:D



you dont know how many times i heard that shit from my sergeant in Iraq lol

[Knightskye]

"if"
do you really think you can get good info from torture?

You are more likely to get an honest answer if you got stoned with the guy.

S-so... there should be a rule against using torture?

ZOMG!

[torchbearer]

S-so... there should be a rule against using torture?

ZOMG!

not a rule.
You don't need a rule to say, don't shot yourself in the foot.
You now it is counter productive, so you don't do it.
If giving the guy LSD makes him spill his secrets, great... but i don't think that works either.
You do what works. What helps you survive and defeat your enemy.

I don't see any research that shows torture to be an effective use of resources in information gathering.

[BlackTerrel]

I was shocked by that too. I had one of those twilight moments.

I think its just a flicker in the darkness. The MSM has to at least, to maintain any sense of credibility (not saying that it has any), publish a story criticizing the Gaza offensive.

The MSM isn't pro-Israel (aside from FoxNews which is also racist) but people here are so pro-Palestinian it's not a shock that it seems so. BTW the writer of the article is a Palestinian himself.

[Knightskye]

not a rule.
You don't need a rule to say

You don't think it's common sense not to blow up an elementary school where there might be "terrorists"?

[torchbearer]

You don't think it's common sense not to blow up an elementary school where there might be "terrorists"?

I don't know. I wasn't there.

[Knightskye]

I don't know. I wasn't there.

That's what they all say. :cool:

[vodalian]

The MSM isn't pro-Israel.

I guess you don't live in America.

[Sandra]

If I am tortured so I will confess that I'm an agent of Hoopity Doo, even though I'm not, I will say this to get the pain to stop. And if afterwards I'm really pissed with my torturer, I can take advantage of my so called "confession' to give lots of false info and waste his web of resources for years. I may even develope a sense of impathy for those they target furthering their cause through my false info.

[Sandra]

Black Terrell has a 100% consistancy rate of turning any unrelated thread racist.

[devil21]

If I am tortured so I will confess that I'm an agent of Hoopity Doo, even though I'm not, I will say this to get the pain to stop. And if afterwards I'm really pissed with my torturer, I can take advantage of my so called "confession' to give lots of false info and waste his web of resources for years. I may even develope a sense of impathy for those they target furthering their cause through my false info.

The movie 'Rendition' covers this very accurately. A must see movie for everyone.