What's up with the Christian/"neo-con" alliance? [Archive]

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Kludge

01-08-2009, 05:54 AM

Josh_LA

01-08-2009, 07:01 AM

Neocons started as Jews and nihilists.

They are Machiavellian and believe in using religion to fool people into unity.

This is why they don't mind using Christians to their own benefit.

See the film "The Power of Nightmares"

But the question of why Christians care about Israel, come in a few
1. they believe "Israel" is religiously significant
2. they're just uncritical in their thinking, or they wouldn't be Christians in the first place
3. They are told we have more in common with Israel (which is not untrue)

Mitt Romneys sideburns

01-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Now I always joke that they want Israel because the Christians think you need Israel to be here in order for Jesus to come back and send the Jews along with everyone else who isnt Christian to hell.

I have no idea really. It could just be years of ingrained propaganda. They might not care about Israel at all, but just pretend they do as an excuse to do whatever kind of bullshit they want to do in the middle east. They have also done a good job of convincing the masses of Americans on the left and the right that Israel is the greatest country in the history of Earth and it deserves our 100% backing because every action they take is an action of God.

Dieseler

01-08-2009, 08:18 AM

M House

01-08-2009, 07:47 PM

Christians are a strong minority in the Palestinian population. Majority of the muslim Palestinians recognize them fully too. So why the Christian Neo-cons support Jews killing their fellow Christians on "holy land" and stuff has got to be some wicked irony.

Kotin

01-08-2009, 07:56 PM

the neocons got a hold of the leaders of the Christian Right-Wing movement early on.

asimplegirl

01-08-2009, 08:07 PM

And by "neo-con", I obviously mean Jew.

Why are there so many commercials in support of Israel, but with an "alliance" of Christians.

I'm sure I was told this many years ago, but I forget why Christians are more fearful of the collapse of Israel over other countries.

Okay, I was raised Pentecostal, the ULTIMATE doom and gloom, hellfire and brimstone religion. This is what I have been taught:

Israel must be defended because it is God's chosen land. In the end times, there will be a war in Israel, The Battle of Armageddon, which will be brought on by the anti-Christ, and the ten confederate nations the Antichrist will rule from, The US being included in these ten heads.. The signs of the US being part of the role of the end times in accordance with the Bible and how other religions interpret it are different. I have also been to a Methodist church that believes when the Bible saysl once the last part of the Tribulation starts with the persecution of the Jews, that Israel was given "two wings of a great eagle" to fly into where nourishment and protection was given to her. Some people think that it might be referring to the United States since our national symbol is that of an eagle. Others feel that the eagle refers directly to God Himself, and God will arrange for some type of protection for the one-third of the Jews who will not be killed by the Antichrist.

The years the anti-Christ is in control, I believe which will be 4 or seven years, will end with people making a choice to be marked as his, or to die for Christ.
When Christ comes back he will take 144, 000 Jews first, then the rest of us who are followers. (“And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel” (Revelation 7:4))The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27), and their mission is to evangelize the post-Rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the Tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions will come to faith in Christ (“A great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands” Revelation 7:9). These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the antichrist to perform their mission during the Tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The Tribulation period is a yet-future, seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel.

Okay, here is the correct version of what I remembered:

The Bible has a lot to say about the end times. Nearly every book of the Bible contains prophecy regarding the end times. Taking all of these prophecies and organizing them can be difficult. Here is a very brief summary of what the Bible declares will happen in the end times:

Christ will remove all born-again believers who are part of the Church (New Testament saints) from the earth by an event known as the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51ff). These believers will be rewarded for good works and service during their time on earth at the Judgment Seat of Christ or will lose rewards, but not eternal life, for lack of service and obedience (1 Corinthians 3:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10).

The antichrist (beast) will come into power and sign a peace pact (covenant) with Israel for seven years (Daniel 9:27). This seven year period of time is known as the Tribulation. During the Tribulation, there will be terrible wars, famines, plagues, and natural disasters. God will be pouring out His wrath against sin, evil, and wickedness. The Tribulation will contain the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and the seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.

About halfway through the 7 years, the antichrist will break the peace covenant with Israel and make war against them. The antichrist will perform the abomination of desolation and set up an image of himself to be worshipped in the temple (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10). The second half of the Tribulation is known as the Great Tribulation and the time of Jacob’s trouble.

At the end of the seven year Tribulation, the antichrist will launch a final attack on Jerusalem, culminating in the Battle of Armageddon. Jesus Christ will return, destroy the antichrist and his armies and cast them into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:11-21). Christ will then bind Satan in the Abyss for 1000 years and will rule His earthly kingdom for this 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-6).

At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is will be released, defeated again, and then cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10). Christ then judges all unbelievers (Revelation 20:10-15) at the Great White Throne Judgment, casting them all into the lake of fire. Christ will then usher in a New Heaven and New Earth and the New Jerusalem - the eternal dwelling place of believers. There will be no more sin, sorrow, or death (Revelation chapters 21-22).

Now here is the verse about Israel being given protection under the two wings of a great eagle:

"But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent." (Revelations 12:14)

You definitely know that verse is talking about the last half of the Tribulation because it uses the words "time and times and half a time." That is the same phrase used by Daniel in his prophecy and it has already been determined that it equals three and half years!!!

3. One last point to mention on all of the above. Why would God allow such bloodshed and persecution to come onto His own chosen people - the Jewish people? First they go through horrible persecution after they are dispersed out of Rome in 70 AD. Then they go through the German holocaust where 6 million of their own are killed by Hitler. And now they are going to have two thirds of their own killed in the coming holocaust with the Antichrist.

Here is the verse that specifically tells us why God has allowed so much persecution to fall upon these people throughout the ages:

"The Gentiles shall know that the House of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me; therefore I hid My face from them. I give them into the hand of their enemies and they all fell by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them." (Ezekiel 39:23-24)

The Bible also says that the Jewish people will go into extreme mourning when they see Jesus come back for the 2nd time. They will see the nail scars in his hands and feet and will realize that Jesus was their true Messiah and they were the ones that killed Him the first time around. However, God, in His incredible mercy, will take them back and re-establish His pact with them and they will continue to be His "chosen people."

God said in the Old Testament that He would not forsake the Covenant that He made with their earlier forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that He would bring them back to their homeland in the latter days. And once the Great Tribulation has fully ended, they would never ever be uprooted again, nor would they ever suffer any more persecution.

You can ask me some stuff , and I will either answer by memory or look it up and tell you. I have no idea if other religions believe this EXACTLY, but I do know that Baptist and Pentecostal are very closely related religions, so they should be the same.

And, BTW, I was never taught that Jews were going to hell, but I was taught that Catholics would. I am now Catholic...Guess I am doomed, huh?

asimplegirl

01-08-2009, 08:09 PM

Thought this may be helpful with what I said:

Question: "What is Israel's role in the end times?"

Answer: Every time there is an explosion of conflict in or around Israel, many see it as a sure sign of the quickly approaching end times. The problem with this is that it creates a “boy that cried wolf” syndrome. We may eventually tire of the conflict in Israel, so much so that we will not recognize when true prophetically significant events occur. Conflict in Israel is not necessarily a sign of the end times.

Conflict in Israel has been a reality whenever Israel has existed as a nation. Whether it was the Egyptians, Amalekites, Midianites, Moabites, Ammonites, Amorites, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, or Romans, the nation of Israel has always been surrounded by and persecuted by its neighbors. Why is this? According to the Bible, it is because God has a special plan for the nation of Israel, and Satan wants to defeat that plan. Satanically influenced hatred of Israel—and especially Israel’s God—is the reason Israel’s neighbors have always wanted to see Israel destroyed. Whether it is Sennacherib, king of Assyria; Haman, official of Persia; Hitler, leader of Nazi Germany; or Ahmadinejad, President of Iran, attempts to ultimately destroy Israel will always fail. The persecutors of Israel will come and go, but the persecution will remain until the second coming of Christ. As a result, conflict in Israel cannot be considered a reliable indicator of the soon arrival of the end times.

At the same time, there will be terrible conflict in Israel during the end times. That is why the time period is known as the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7). Here is what the Bible does say about Israel in the end times:

There will be a mass return of Jews to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 43:6; Ezekiel 34:11-13; 36:24; 37:1-14).

The Antichrist will make a 7-year covenant of "peace" with Israel (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 9:27).

The Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 11:1).

The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, and worldwide persecution of Israel will result (Daniel 9:27; 12:1, 11; Zechariah 11:16; Matthew 24:15, 21; Revelation 12:13). Israel will be invaded (Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will be regenerated, restored, and regathered (Jeremiah 33:8; Ezekiel 11:17; Romans 11:26).

There is much turmoil in Israel today. Israel is persecuted, surrounded by enemies—the Palestinians, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. But this hatred and persecution of Israel is only a hint of what will happen in the end times (Matthew 24:15-21). The latest round of persecution began when Israel was reconstituted as a nation in 1948. Many Bible prophecy scholars believed the six-day Arab-Israeli war in 1967 was the "beginning of the end." Could what is taking place in Israel today indicate that the end is near? Yes. Does it necessarily mean the end is near? No. Jesus Himself said it best, "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come" (Matthew 24:4-6).

Recommended Resource: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware.

http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-Israel.html

On the defense of Israel and the Neocons:

CUFI, the pro-Israel lobbying group launched in February 2006 to provide support for Israel, believes that "'Jerusalem must remain undivided as the eternal capital of the Jewish people' (meaning no portion of it should be turned over to the Palestinians)," Sarah Posner, writes in her new book "God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters" (PoliPointPress, 2008).

Hagee, who heads up an 18,000-member Pentecostal congregation in San Antonio, Texas, "inject[s] ... the charged rhetoric of biblical prophesy into contemporary foreign policy," Posner writes, "[which] has catapulted him to the forefront of an American Christian Zionist movement that has become the darling of conservative Israel hawks in Washington and neoconservatives yearning for regional war in the Middle East."

Last week, while Bush was still in the Middle East, Pastor Hagee sent the following e-mail to his supporters, a message that Posner characterized in an e-mail as a "pretty clear biblical directive to his followers, but ... not very political:

"As world leaders attempt to decide the future of Israel and Jerusalem during diplomatic visits in an endeavor to create peace in the Middle East let remain focused on the Word of God and what is says about the future glory on Zion.”

Say to them that are of a fearful heart,
Be strong, fear not: behold,
your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompense;
he will come and save you. Isaiah 35:4

"The Word clearly speaks of the future house of God,”

In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:2-3

In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4:1-2

Some other interesting things about this:

The only reason we are the world’s only superpower at this time is due to the anointing that God Himself has placed on this country as a result of our initial Christian foundations that were established with Him. It only has been the power of God operating on this country that has made us
the superpower we are today. Once God’s people are taken out of this big picture - I believe this country will literally "fall apart" overnight, and the Antichrist and his 10 nation European confederacy will move in very quickly to take our place as the world’s only true superpower.

This also may explain how the Antichrist will literally be able to take control of the entire world in such a short period of time. With America being left completely powerless with the loss of so many Christians and no other countries big enough or powerful enough to take our place - the Antichrist, with his 10 nation European confederacy, will be the next in line to have the muscle, technology and ability to replace us as the next world superpower.

M House

01-08-2009, 08:15 PM

What a useless piece of desert. There's been jews, christians, and muslims there for centuries. Only after a bit of ethic cleansing and a hefty dump of euro-trash did things turn into such a cancer of region.

Brian4Liberty

01-08-2009, 08:15 PM

And by "neo-con", I obviously mean Jew.

That's collectivist. All neo-conservatives are not Jewish, and all Jewish people are not neo-cons. Unfortunately, that equivalence has been made, and now the term neo-con has joined a few select words as being off limits. Of course it was neo-cons themselves who claimed that word was anti-semetic, so that's where the equivalence started. Now we have a ton of everyday neocons who are not Jewish, and there's no label for them. Damn!

(granted, the majority of the originators and propagandists for the neo-conservative movement are Jewish, but so are loy-yas) ;)

M House

01-08-2009, 08:23 PM

Jews get a bad rap for sure we actually had one of the famous holocaust survivors come talk at our school. He was a really cool guy and chose to live in the same nation that ended up killing his family and friends. Why, well that was his home and felt more loyal to it compared to anywhere else he could live still. He didn't like the idea of a Jewish nation as he felt that undermined much of lessons that should've been learned from his era.

asimplegirl

01-08-2009, 08:35 PM

Now, from my posts, which was exactly what was drummed into me from morning to night, some people cannot see why I have such issues with churches, especially protestant ones, but I must say.... force a child to believe this, cram those damned Left behind books (http://www.leftbehind.com/) down their throats, and then see how fun their childhood is...it just isn't fun. It teaches alot of guilt, sadness, worry, and I still cannot do anything without feeling I need forgiveness immediately or I will go to hell..

Straight from the children's Left behind website:

Are you ready for the moment of truth?

* Political crisis
* Economic crisis
* Worldwide epidemics
* Environmental catastrophe
* Mass disappearances
* Military apocalypse

And that’s just the beginning . . .
of the end of the world.
It’s happening now.

heavenlyboy34

01-08-2009, 09:27 PM

Now, from my posts, which was exactly what was drummed into me from morning to night, some people cannot see why I have such issues with churches, especially protestant ones, but I must say.... force a child to believe this, cram those damned Left behind books (http://www.leftbehind.com/) down their throats, and then see how fun their childhood is...it just isn't fun. It teaches alot of guilt, sadness, worry, and I still cannot do anything without feeling I need forgiveness immediately or I will go to hell..

Straight from the children's Left behind website:

I've been highly suspicious of the Left Behind books for several years.:eek:

BlackTerrel

01-08-2009, 11:42 PM

Christians are a strong minority in the Palestinian population. Majority of the muslim Palestinians recognize them fully too.

Don't believe that for a second. How many Christian Arabs do you know? I know many here in the US.

Why were Christians once 20% of Palestinians and now they are 1%. Why is the population of Mulim Palestinians exploding while that of Christians dwindle.

Christians in Muslim nations are treated as bad or worse than Muslims in Israel, it just doesn't make the news.

asimplegirl

01-08-2009, 11:50 PM

Don't believe that for a second. How many Christian Arabs do you know? I know many here in the US.

Why were Christians once 20% of Palestinians and now they are 1%. Why is the population of Mulim Palestinians exploding while that of Christians dwindle.

Christians in Muslim nations are treated as bad or worse than Muslims in Israel, it just doesn't make the news.

Why?

According to the census data collected by the Ottoman Empire, the Christian population in 1914 was 24% of the modern-day area consisting of Israel/Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Turkey; today it is no more than 5%, [2] largely due to the chronic emigration of Christians and (since the 1970s) their lower birth rates. In British Mandate Palestine, Christians made up as much as 20% of the population, though some put the figure at 13%.[2]

It is known that Christians make up between 40,000 and 90,000 people, or 1.1 to 2.4% of the population of the Palestinian territories. Most are in the West Bank, though there is a community of 2,000 in the Gaza Strip. The related Arab Christians in Israel number between 144,000 and 196,000, or 2.1 to 2.8% of the total population,[3] and about 8.8% of the non-Jewish Arab population.[4]

Furthermore, :
Christians in Muslim nations are treated as bad or worse than Muslims in Israel, it just doesn't make the news.is not true:

In a 2006 poll of Christians in Bethlehem by the Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue, 90% reported having Muslim friends, 73.3% agreed that the Palestinian Authority treats Christian heritage in the city with respect and 78% attributed the ongoing exodus of Christians from Bethlehem to the Israeli travel restrictions on the area.[

Kludge

01-09-2009, 12:06 AM

Thanks asimplegirl. That cleared up my confusion.

That's collectivist. All neo-conservatives are not Jewish, and all Jewish people are not neo-cons.

:p Joke from a different thread http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=174529

BlackTerrel

01-09-2009, 12:31 AM

In a 2006 poll of Christians in Bethlehem by the Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue, 90% reported having Muslim friends, 73.3% agreed that the Palestinian Authority treats Christian heritage in the city with respect and 78% attributed the ongoing exodus of Christians from Bethlehem to the Israeli travel restrictions on the area.[

Who is the Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue and what are the consequences for answering otherwise. If Israel travel restrictions were the reason for the exodus then why isn't the Muslim Palestinian population shrinking. Do you know any Arab Christians - I do.

Do a little research on treatment of Christians in Muslim countries. More than a million Christians have been killed by Muslims in Sudan yet the MSM does not even touch it. Why?

nodope0695

01-09-2009, 12:37 AM

nodope0695

01-09-2009, 12:43 AM

More than a million Christians have been killed by Muslims in Sudan yet the MSM does not even touch it. Why?

Because that would be "racial profiling" and insensitive to what is really a "peace loving religion." Bah!

The short answer for me is that its because the MSM is a propaganda arm for those who push the New World Order....and what better religion to support in this push for a NWO, than one that oppresses it's followers, holds central control over the nations it rules, and kills or enslaves those who would resist its power?

nodope0695

01-09-2009, 12:46 AM

Are you ready for the moment of truth?

* Political crisis
* Economic crisis
* Worldwide epidemics
* Environmental catastrophe
* Mass disappearances
* Military apocalypse

And that’s just the beginning . . .
of the end of the world.
It’s happening now.

Hmmmm, sounds strangley like what I just heard on CNN.....

In a 2006 poll of Christians in Bethlehem by the Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue, 90% reported having Muslim friends, 73.3% agreed that the Palestinian Authority treats Christian heritage in the city with respect and 78% attributed the ongoing exodus of Christians from Bethlehem to the Israeli travel restrictions on the area.
PROPAGANDA! As sure as CNN is the mouthpeice for terrorists, this "poll" is pure b.s. How many were polled, 3 people? Come now. Pure hogwash of the 10th magnatude.