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View Full Version : Are modern Conservatives stupid or just followers?




MrNick
01-02-2009, 12:04 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

Brassmouth
01-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Definitely both. Stupid AND blind followers. But that's a redundancy anyway. Being a blind follower is the very definition of stupidity.

libertarian4321
01-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I'll choose "both" as well.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 12:27 PM
I'll choose "both" as well.

Ditto! :)

Politics ain't called a "sociopathic cult" fer nuthin'. ;)

"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell

LibertyEagle
01-02-2009, 12:29 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

You're right, it makes NO sense. I just think they have been brainwashed by the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity and others from the neocon camp. I've watched them do it. Making it seem like, and even saying things to this end, that they have the choice of supporting the BS that they are dishing out, or they have to accept the BS that the likes of Hillary is dishing out.

brandon
01-02-2009, 12:32 PM
It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

It's called "double think" and having this conversation with you causes them to experience cognitive dissonance, which is very uncomfortable to them.

It's only partly their fault they are double thinking. They have been the victims of a very extensive and complex propaganda program that pervades almost all aspects of their lives.

Anti Federalist
01-02-2009, 12:35 PM
You're right, it makes NO sense. I just think they have been brainwashed by the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity and others from the neocon camp. I've watched them do it. Making it seem like, and even saying things to this end, that they have the choice of supporting the BS that they are dishing out, or they have to accept the BS that the likes of Hillary is dishing out.

When the BS is all the same.

Used to be, they would at least offer you a choice of BS flavors.

Now, they don't even bother making a show of it anymore.

And to the question:

As others have said, the modern neo-con "conservative" is both: stupid and a blind follower.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-02-2009, 12:36 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

Tyranny divides Americans up into a partisan distinction of conservatives and liberals; while, to the contrary, American Movements unite Americans to bring them back to that which is self-evidently true and unalienably common in our human-souls.
When using Aristotle's golden-mean to divide ourselves into factions, we tend to do it incorrectly. We always assume the line should be drawn between the conservative rich and the liberal poor when the wealthy get victimized by tyranny more than any other group. By wealthy, this would be any rich person without power.
Our nation is reverting back to a system of prostitution. It is all about buying and selling today with very little in between. After this economy of musical chairs stops and we desperately look around for a chair to sit on, most of us will be left out in the cold as tax paying prostitutes while just a few of us will be needed by tryanny as its tax collecting pimps.

Anti Federalist
01-02-2009, 12:40 PM
It's called "double think" and having this conversation with you causes them to experience cognitive dissonance, which is very uncomfortable to them.

It's only partly their fault they are double thinking. They have been the victims of a very extensive and complex propaganda program that pervades almost all aspects of their lives.

And this, too.

+1

LibertyEagle
01-02-2009, 12:47 PM
And to the question:

As others have said, the modern neo-con "conservative" is both: stupid and a blind follower.

Well, neocons are NOT conservatives. That's the thing. But there are also those, who the OP is describing, that sound like they are just brainwashed.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 12:48 PM
Sooooooo, who's gonna shrink the government? :rolleyes:

MrNick
01-02-2009, 12:53 PM
Well, neocons are NOT conservatives. That's the thing. But there are also those, who the OP is describing, that sound like they are just brainwashed.

I know they aren't, but they think they are.

Heres a good argument though, my dad is a preacher and huge Bush supporter and think's he a conservative. And I told him Bush is the opposite of a Conservatives but since Bush supports bans no gay marriage, stem cell research and abortion he thinks Bush is a conservative. "Theres more to being conservative then economics, being a conservative is more about social issues" even though he technically thinks he supports small government and less taxes.

People are beyond stupid these days.

LibertyEagle
01-02-2009, 12:53 PM
Sooooooo, who's gonna shrink the government? :rolleyes:

Hello? We ARE, or at least those of us who are engaged. :rolleyes:

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 12:53 PM
Sooooooo, who's gonna shrink the government? :rolleyes:

China and Russia-by selling it on ebay ;)

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 01:27 PM
China and Russia-by selling it on ebay ;) I like! :D < LOL! >

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 01:30 PM
Hello? We ARE, or at least those of us who are engaged. :rolleyes:

Don't you have some remaining Texas GOP fortresses to storm, take over and reform?


I'm STILL working on that Trojan rabbit.

asimplegirl
01-02-2009, 01:39 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

Spend some time on teamsarah chat. I have a couple friends on there that were big ron paul supporters. I am constantly called a liberal or a moderate, lol, for telling them the same thing.

I don't know if they are stupid or followers. I think they, just like all of us, have certain things they are for and against, and alot of people have no idea what rights we are promised in the constitution. I think that O'Reilly is probably the worst thing that has EVER happened to politics, but alot of people, including my FIL, worship every word he says.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
01-02-2009, 03:51 PM
I think the problem with faux-conservatives is mostly emotional. Go open up 1984, read the "two-minutes hate" section, and the parallels should become pretty clear.

My experience with the fauxcons is that they have an overwhelming tendency to break down and cry or become venomously angry in the face of calm, simple logic. This is a page straight out of Soviet and Nazi psychological terrorism techniques.

The_Orlonater
01-02-2009, 03:52 PM
I think the problem with faux-conservatives is mostly emotional. Go open up 1984, read the "two-minutes hate" section, and the parallels should become pretty clear.

Off topic, but how do we plan to have anarchy.

Kotin
01-02-2009, 03:54 PM
both

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 03:56 PM
Don't you have some remaining Texas GOP fortresses to storm, take over and reform?


I'm STILL working on that Trojan rabbit.

LOL!!! I just had a flashback to that Trojan bunny scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. :D

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 03:57 PM
Off topic, but how do we plan to have anarchy.

The Real World Order Is Chaotic (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer185.html)
Much as it bothers the god-kings.

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 03:59 PM
The Real World Order Is Chaotic (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer185.html)
Much as it bothers the god-kings.

I'm heavenlyboy34, and I highly recommend the above article. :D

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 04:06 PM
LOL!!! I just had a flashback to that Trojan bunny scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. :D That's THE blueprint and template. ;) :D

bojo68
01-02-2009, 04:09 PM
Maybe it's just me, but letting the neocons get by with the hijacking of the word "conservative" is part of the problem, and as such needs to be stopped post haste.. They've been allowed to take away the ability to describe or differentiate them from the REAL, THINKING conservative, and the history of such. To me, they need to be called on it EVERY TIME they try to pawn themselves off as conservatives, as that's a title they don't deserve.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Maybe it's just me, but letting the neocons get by with the hijacking of the word "conservative" is part of the problem, and as such needs to be stopped post haste.. They've been allowed to take away the ability to describe or differentiate them from the REAL, THINKING conservative, and the history of such. To me, they need to be called on it EVERY TIME they try to pawn themselves off as conservatives, as that's a title they don't deserve. While you're at it, see if you can salvage "libertarian" back from the STATIST ex-GOP LP hijackers too, will ya, please? :)

Number19
01-02-2009, 04:35 PM
[B]Don't you have some remaining Texas GOP fortresses to storm, take over and reform?In two years we'll be starting from the precincts up.

Theocrat
01-02-2009, 05:16 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

I share your frustration, and for me, it gets even worse when discussing politics and government with Christian conservatives. They, too, seem very proud and infatuated with George W. Bush's policies and views as President. The Christian conservatives which really frustrate me the most are the ones who adore Bush just because he claims to be a Christian in public. They don't understand what Biblical government is, nor do they even comprehend the Constitutional limits that a President has (which Bush has violated repeatedly in his administration). As long as Bush says he's "pro-life," they are usually satisfied. From that, they will accept almost anything he proposes, from unconstitutional wars to corporate bailouts. It's almost as if they believe Bush is God's anointed messiah upon America, and whatever he does will work to the benefit of everyone, both nationally and worldwide. It sickens me sometimes.

That's why I enjoy Dr. Chuck Baldwin's articles so much when he criticizes and exposes the Christian conservatives for their false conservative views. Some of his articles include:

"Conservatives Lost More Than an Election" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20081107.html)
"Apathetic Pastors and Christians Killing America" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080401.html)
"Conservatives Offer No Hope" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080311.html)
"Christian Right Just Doesn't Get It" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071207.html)
"Christians Should Support Constitutional Government" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071030.html)
"Why Are Christians So Gullible?" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070807.html)
"Have Christians Become Dupes?" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070410.html)

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 05:18 PM
While you're at it, see if you can salvage "libertarian" back from the STATIST ex-GOP LP hijackers too, will ya, please? :)

I second this request. :)

torchbearer
01-02-2009, 05:19 PM
I second this request. :)

The LALP has no GOP-lite problems.
The Barr backers left the party because we were supporting ron paul..
A few left after Barr offered the VP slot to Ron too...
They were our pro-war LPers.

Freedom 4 all
01-02-2009, 08:01 PM
I know what's going on with a number of Bush loving "conservatives" in my demographic (white, college age males) and I'm going to have to blame Hollywood and the entertainment media. Traditionally these are liberal things but there are also a lot of violent stuff and it's mostly very neocon friendly. After seeing war and police brutality endlessly glamorized in movies and video games it's hard not to jump on the "let's kill them A-rabs and drug dealers, the hell with the constitution" bandwagon. Also it's important to note that these are people who LIKE entitlement and hence have no problem with the fact that today's conservatives are about as "conservative" as LBJ. That's not to say there are no liberty friendly violent movies/games but a lot glamorize stuff that requires taking a dump on the ol' Constitution.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 08:23 PM
In two years we'll be starting from the precincts up. I'd STRONGLY suggest, NOT waiting two years. ;) :)

Andrew-Austin
01-02-2009, 08:24 PM
I was at dinner with mostly older "conservatives" that are friends of my parents. And we discussed politics from immigration, to economics to the war on terror. They were all "conservative" and discussing economics we all agreed to we needed less spending and smaller government and less taxes. I discussed to soon major economic problems happening the next few years and most of them agreed.

But when we got on subjects like G.W. Bush they were all major fans of him. I talked about the war on terror and the war on our Constitution and freedoms and they disagreed. They just agreed with me for less government with less powers, yet now they are supporting the opposite. It seems the modern "Conservative" is for AND against big government, it makes no sense.

I don't get people, specially G.W.Bush supporters, they want small government and at the same time massive government.

They have the same mentality towards politics as some do for their favorite sports team. I personally blame the public school system.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 08:25 PM
I share your frustration, and for me, it gets even worse when discussing politics and government with Christian conservatives. They, too, seem very proud and infatuated with George W. Bush's policies and views as President. The Christian conservatives which really frustrate me the most are the ones who adore Bush just because he claims to be a Christian in public. They don't understand what Biblical government is, nor do they even comprehend the Constitutional limits that a President has (which Bush has violated repeatedly in his administration). As long as Bush says he's "pro-life," they are usually satisfied. From that, they will accept almost anything he proposes, from unconstitutional wars to corporate bailouts. It's almost as if they believe Bush is God's anointed messiah upon America, and whatever he does will work to the benefit of everyone, both nationally and worldwide. It sickens me sometimes.


That's why I enjoy Dr. Chuck Baldwin's articles so much when he criticizes and exposes the Christian conservatives for their false conservative views. Some of his articles include:

"Conservatives Lost More Than an Election" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20081107.html)
"Apathetic Pastors and Christians Killing America" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080401.html)
"Conservatives Offer No Hope" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080311.html)
"Christian Right Just Doesn't Get It" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071207.html)
"Christians Should Support Constitutional Government" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071030.html)
"Why Are Christians So Gullible?" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070807.html)
"Have Christians Become Dupes?" (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070410.html)


The Triumph of Imperial Christianity (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance155.html)
Laurence Vance on the conservatives' war religion.

;) :)

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 08:26 PM
Maybe some RPF conservatives ought to write some books and magazines to fight back against the neocons, eh? Probably more effective than bitching about it to your buds on the webbernet. ;):)

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 08:27 PM
The Triumph of Imperial Christianity (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance155.html)
Laurence Vance on the conservatives' war religion.

;) :)

I'm heavenlyboy34, and I highly recommend this article. :D

Andrew-Austin
01-02-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm heavenlyboy34, and I highly recommend this article. :D

Yeah, I got that the first time you posted it.

Truth Warrior
01-02-2009, 08:30 PM
The LALP has no GOP-lite problems.
The Barr backers left the party because we were supporting ron paul..
A few left after Barr offered the VP slot to Ron too...
They were our pro-war LPers.

Pro-war LPers? It's sillier than even I thought. < LMAO! > Anyone ever hear of the NAP? :rolleyes:

heavenlyboy34
01-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Pro-war LPers? It's sillier than even I thought. < LMAO! > Anyone ever hear of the NAP? :rolleyes:
LMAO! :rolleyes:

Uriel999
01-02-2009, 11:00 PM
both...too bad the majority of my family fits this bill. :(

Anti Federalist
01-03-2009, 12:03 AM
I think the problem with faux-conservatives is mostly emotional. Go open up 1984, read the "two-minutes hate" section, and the parallels should become pretty clear.

My experience with the fauxcons is that they have an overwhelming tendency to break down and cry or become venomously angry in the face of calm, simple logic. This is a page straight out of Soviet and Nazi psychological terrorism techniques.

Osama bin Goldstein.

Government will be trotting him out as the great boogieman to our grandchildren.

Ozwest
01-03-2009, 12:14 AM
Three months from now, the Honeymoon will be over, and the walls will come crumbling down.

Then...

People will sleep peaceably in their beds because rough men stand ready.

Paulitician
01-03-2009, 11:30 AM
ditto! :)

politics ain't called a "sociopathic cult" fer nuthin'. ;)
ROFL... l

Truth Warrior
01-03-2009, 11:33 AM
ROFL... l

Politics Is a Sociopathic Cult (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer96.html)