Ramos and Compean - a prediction (UPDATE: SENTENCES COMMUTED)

[Original_Intent]

I am betting that one of the first things that Baracko does when/if he is sworn in, will be to release Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean from jail.

I am guessing this because I think BO is being set up to be the next "great leader" and this would do a lot to win over or at least silence conservative critics. It wouldn't hurt him with his socialist base either, as I don't really think there are people out there demanding that they be left in prison.

For those of you that have seen Dune:

George Bush = Beast Rabban
Barack Obama = Feyd Rautha

[Matt Collins]

If Bush had a brain in his head he would pardon these two immediately.

[Dieseler]

It seems like the whole thing is a set up just for that to happen.
Thats a good prediction.

[Cowlesy]

Sentences Commuted.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95QC5OO0&show_article=1

[lynnf]

maybe there is a decent bone in his body


http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews\General-Politics\20090119\Bush-Pardons.xml&cat=politics&subcat=&pageid=1


lynn

[t0rnado]

They shot someone who didn't commit an act of aggression or infringe upon anyone else's rights. Ramos and Compean should rot in prison.

[angelatc]

He's a prick. He should have pardoned them.

[heavenlyboy34]

He's a prick. He should have pardoned them.

qft!

[Chosen]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j6mH44rWD9yyZf_AZ7YxQDVFL7WwD95QC0O81

By DEB RIECHMANN – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.

Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences.

[Fox McCloud]

Huzzah! :)

[Crash Martinez]

The two State gunmen who shot someone for smuggling (gasp!) drugs across the border, right? So, why aren't they responsible for their actions?

[TonySutton]

While I agree commutation falls short of my hopes. I am sure they are happy to receive it.

[Kotin]

I am betting that one of the first things that Baracko does when/if he is sworn in, will be to release Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean from jail.

I am guessing this because I think BO is being set up to be the next "great leader" and this would do a lot to win over or at least silence conservative critics. It wouldn't hurt him with his socialist base either, as I don't really think there are people out there demanding that they be left in prison.

For those of you that have seen Dune:

George Bush = Beast Rabban
Barack Obama = Feyd Rautha

very good and accurate dune correlation..

[Chosen]

If Bush had a brain in his head he would pardon these two immediately.

That's right. One thing he has done now is create two martyrs who will be opposed to illegal immigration.

From what I understand, keeping them in jail until March was a political choice. Harry Reid has just introduced some more anti-rule of law legislation with regards to Amnesty. He doesn't want Ramos and Compeon to become symbolic spokespersons against it in the public. The republicrats believe they can get it passed now.

[Crash Martinez]

would someone please tell me why they didn't deserve to be judged as guilty and sentenced?

(granted, I don't think prison is necessarily the appropriate sentence, but I don't see how these State gunmen are innocent of crime.)

[jkr]

wow, way to wait to the last minute...

[Crash Martinez]

would someone please tell me why they didn't deserve to be judged as guilty and sentenced?

(granted, I don't think prison is necessarily the appropriate sentence, but I don't see how these State gunmen are innocent of crime.)

Anyone?

[nate895]

would someone please tell me why they didn't deserve to be judged as guilty and sentenced?

(granted, I don't think prison is necessarily the appropriate sentence, but I don't see how these State gunmen are innocent of crime.)

Mexican crosses border illegally with a gun, the agents shoot at him, he runs back across the Rio Grande, gets picked up by his drug cartel, and they assume he wasn't shot because of how quickly he ran away, when he really was shot, so they don't file a report. I don't see how anything they did was a crime.

[Crash Martinez]

Mexican crosses border illegally with a gun, the agents shoot at him, he runs back across the Rio Grande, gets picked up by his drug cartel, and they assume he wasn't shot because of how quickly he ran away, when he really was shot, so they don't file a report. I don't see how anything they did was a crime.
I don't see how it wasn't a crime! Running across a border with a gun is sufficient to get you shot? Why exactly? Whose rights did the Mexican violate? And when an officer fires shots, does it matter whether or not the person being fired at gets hit, as to whether they are required to file a report?

[nate895]

I don't see how it wasn't a crime! Running across a border with a gun is sufficient to get you shot? Why exactly? Whose rights did the Mexican violate? And when an officer fires shots, does it matter whether or not the person being fired at gets hit, as to whether they are required to file a report?

He wasn't following their orders to stop, which they were of right to do since he had committed an illegal act in front of them, and as far as I know you only need to file a report for actually shooting someone in the Border Patrol.

[Crash Martinez]

Do we as libertarians or minarchists (or whatever) really believe that what the Mexican guy did should be a crime? I suppose I'm disagreeing with Dr. Paul's position on this issue, but I think it comes down to the question: Did he violate anyone's rights, and thus necessitate police action against him? Or was his illegal activity really something that shouldn't have been outlawed in the first place?

So you know, these are genuine questions of mine. As late as this very morning, I simply assumed that Ramos and Compean should have been pardoned. But then when I thought about it, it started to seem to me that they were just a couple of trigger-happy cops, the likes of which we've seen all over this country lately. And if that's the case, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them...

[Dustancostine]

I don't see how it wasn't a crime! Running across a border with a gun is sufficient to get you shot? Why exactly? Whose rights did the Mexican violate? And when an officer fires shots, does it matter whether or not the person being fired at gets hit, as to whether they are required to file a report?

Umm.... isn't when a foreigner runs across the border with a gun, it's called an invasion?

[Crash Martinez]

Umm.... isn't when a foreigner runs across the border with a gun, it's called an invasion?

I suppose... But if I had to flee this country, I'd sort of like to bring mine with me.

[Dustancostine]

I suppose... But if I had to flee this country, I'd sort of like to bring mine with me.

Oh I agree, but if I ran across the border with Mexico with my gun and they started shooting at me, I wouldn't complain about it.

[Original_Intent]

Well my prediction was wrong but I am glad to see them free finally.

To Crash Martinez: Your logic is not quite there - the agents should be punished for enforcing a bad law? If that is the case then every drug enforcement officer in the country should go to jail, the one's that have killed someone in the line of duty for murder? You are putting the cart in front of the horse, we must work to get bad laws repealed or stop people from going to jail through jury nullification - but you DON'T punish two guys who were doing there job to enforce the law (good or bad) when the job they are being paid to do is ENFORCE the law.

I don't think we should have law enforcement, everyone should defend themselves and form voluntary co-ops to protect each other and enforce contracts, etc. But that sure doesn't mean policemen should be jailed jsut because I disagree with a law they were enforcing.

[Crash Martinez]

Well my prediction was wrong but I am glad to see them free finally.

To Crash Martinez: Your logic is not quite there - the agents should be punished for enforcing a bad law? If that is the case then every drug enforcement officer in the country should go to jail, the one's that have killed someone in the line of duty for murder? You are putting the cart in front of the horse, we must work to get bad laws repealed or stop people from going to jail through jury nullification - but you DON'T punish two guys who were doing there job to enforce the law (good or bad) when the job they are being paid to do is ENFORCE the law.

I don't think we should have law enforcement, everyone should defend themselves and form voluntary co-ops to protect each other and enforce contracts, etc. But that sure doesn't mean policemen should be jailed jsut because I disagree with a law they were enforcing.

Reasonable.

[Chosen]

Here is the contents of an email I received some time ago about the case called "facts"


FACT- this investigation started with phone calls that ended up at a BP agent in wilcox, AZ who was a childhood friend of the drug smuggler.
FACT– The drug smuggler told this agent the third time they talked that he WAS smuggling drugs the day he was shot.
FACT- this agent was also tipped off to drug smuggling operations in El Paso and would call Border patrol there and inform them. Makes sense that this would happen with two drug cartels fighting for control in the El Paso area. Of course he snitched about the opposing cartel for which his childhood friend worked for.
FACT– his family members consider him the black sheep of the family who has been smuggling drugs since he was 14 and NEVER moved a load without a weapon.
FACT- the only person to say there was no weapon was the drug smuggler because those cartels know if their mule (drug runner) is caught with one, its an automatic prison term of five years. No one knows for sure there was no weapon because the dope runner was never searched. Sutton wants people to think he was unarmed to justify his case and prosecution.
FACT– after the February shooting, the drug smuggler continues to smuggle drugs while using Border crossing permits from the US attorney office and the DHS Inspector.
FACT– the drug runner has since been indicted on FOUR SMUGGLING operations, in June, September, and twice in October 2005 before the trial began. Which by the way, was to have started on October 25, but was postponed because the US Attorney Office “said” he needed to go to san antonio for emergency surgery when in fact the best hospital to handle the injury for which he had was right there in El Paso.
FACT– During the two October loads, The DEA, El Paso Sheriff, and Border Patrol all caught the doper at the stash house operated by Cipriano Ortiz Hernandez, who is now in prison also.
FACT– The jury DID NOT know of the other smuggling operations because the US Attorney Office said it was irrelevant to the case. They knew if this would have been admitted it would have ruined their cas
FACT- The jury had three members come forward and complain of the conduct of the jury foreman who told them that the judge told him, there will be no hung jury. Another juror was ready to get out of there so he could get out of town because spring break started that Friday.
FACT- During a separate interview, a Radio talk show host went to El Paso, talked to two jurors, Showed them the transcript and the Sealed DEA papers on the October Loads and both said if they would have known this they could not and would not have voted guilty. they said they dont think the other members would either.
FACT- the 924C gun charge was never meant for law enforcement in the line of duty. It was meant for criminals who used a gun.
FACT- DHS told a house subcommittee that the two agents said they were “out to shoot a mexican” that day and then had to admit “oh we lied” about that statement.
Fact- border patrol disipline guilelines for everything they were charged range from an oral reprimand to a five day suspension without pay.
Sutton and his office had to make everyhting a crime in order to prosecute them and lie to get a conviction.

[nodope0695]

They shot someone who didn't commit an act of aggression or infringe upon anyone else's rights. Ramos and Compean should rot in prison.

Naw, you're right, an illegal alien, and drug smuggler is a pillar of society. He's the victim here, of course! We'll just forget national borders, the rule of law, and the fact that the two men were doing their fucking job....great post noob. Go back to Obama's forum now.

[Dieseler]

Now a lot of healing can begin for those two families.

[fedup100]

would someone please tell me why they didn't deserve to be judged as guilty and sentenced?

(granted, I don't think prison is necessarily the appropriate sentence, but I don't see how these State gunmen are innocent of crime.)

We are in an undeclared state of war with Mexico. We are being invaded by God knows what daily. The powers that be in the fed gov have committed treason upon treason involving this country and its people and THEY should rot in prison for the crimes they have committed, but it won't happen.

Only the nobody little guys who are out on the line putting their life on the line are jacked around and I believe set up. The bastard they shot, I am so sad he survived it.

These men are not state gunmen, I believe it is still a crime to smuggle hundreds of pounds across the border, but we should just look the other way on that one right?

They did not receive a fair trial to boot, of course few of the poor and down trodden do.

I will say it, Thank You George Bush, it took you 8 years to get something right and you do have 1 good bone in your body.

[OddballAZ]

I'm very glad these two agents will be getting out of jail. They should be released immediately and it should have been a pardon, but what can we expect from a raging global socialist liberal like Jorge Boosh? Now lets hope the agents are able to win their appeal and get their convictions overturned so they get their rights back.

It's also nice to see almost everyone on this board understands these agents did nothing wrong and this was a sham. Go on ar15.com and all of the Bush Bot's and Status Quo Defenders think the agents should be in jail forever. But most of those fools drank the McCain Kool Aid anyway so obviously this is a board where more intelligent people go.

[t0rnado]

Well my prediction was wrong but I am glad to see them free finally.

To Crash Martinez: Your logic is not quite there - the agents should be punished for enforcing a bad law? If that is the case then every drug enforcement officer in the country should go to jail, the one's that have killed someone in the line of duty for murder? You are putting the cart in front of the horse, we must work to get bad laws repealed or stop people from going to jail through jury nullification - but you DON'T punish two guys who were doing there job to enforce the law (good or bad) when the job they are being paid to do is ENFORCE the law.

I don't think we should have law enforcement, everyone should defend themselves and form voluntary co-ops to protect each other and enforce contracts, etc. But that sure doesn't mean policemen should be jailed jsut because I disagree with a law they were enforcing.

Just because they get told to enforce laws doesn't make them innocent. Using your faulty logic, I could say that a hitman shouldn't be punished because he murdered someone in the line of duty.


Naw, you're right, an illegal alien, and drug smuggler is a pillar of society. He's the victim here, of course! We'll just forget national borders, the rule of law, and the fact that the two men were doing their fucking job....great post noob. Go back to Obama's forum now.

Shooting another human who did not infringe on anyone else's rights is deplorable. Blackwater mercenaries are just doing their jobs, right? The rule of law argument is as pathetic as your bullshit insults. If the rule of law is, let's ban guns, we should ban them right?


We are in an undeclared state of war with Mexico. We are being invaded by God knows what daily. The powers that be in the fed gov have committed treason upon treason involving this country and its people and THEY should rot in prison for the crimes they have committed, but it won't happen.

Only the nobody little guys who are out on the line putting their life on the line are jacked around and I believe set up. The bastard they shot, I am so sad he survived it.

These men are not state gunmen, I believe it is still a crime to smuggle hundreds of pounds across the border, but we should just look the other way on that one right?

They did not receive a fair trial to boot, of course few of the poor and down trodden do.

I will say it, Thank You George Bush, it took you 8 years to get something right and you do have 1 good bone in your body.

Who's "we"? I'm not in an undeclared state of war with anyone. If you are, then go fight without using someone's money(taxes).

No one cares about what you believe is a crime. If you think shooting someone is the right response for driving a truck with flowers, than you are mistaken.

[Bruno]

Here is the contents of an email I received some time ago about the case called "facts"

That's what I heard as well.