Greater Philadelphia Meetup Organizer is Clifton Coalition [Archive]

max

09-11-2007, 01:29 PM

It's been confirmed, and I felt it needed its own thread so as not to derail Sematary's pleas for petition signatures. The organizer of the Greater Philadelphia Meetup is a part of the Clifton Coalition group, and has removed any assistant organizers from the group who refuse to cooperate with that group's agenda.

Caveat emptor.

And Clifton works with Dr. Tom Stevens (the guy who ran a gay teen Meetup group and was arrested for soliciting murder)...Stevens also rose to prominence during the Perot movement and then undermned Perot on national TV

tmg19103

09-11-2007, 02:05 PM

What the hell is the Clifton Coalition?

This is a long thread that goes into quite a bit of detail about a lot of characters.

Turns out Anita Andrews is cool - she is with the official Ron paul campaign and is looking to help the MeetUps in a positive way.

Decide for yourself from what the post says in regards to the other characters. At the very least, I believe they undermine the spirit and self-motivation that comes with people working together as a team in a true grassroots campaign. As for the other stuff mentioned, read into it what you will.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=14827&highlight=clifton+coalition

McDermit

09-11-2007, 02:14 PM

Some additional posts about the coalition..

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=11304&postcount=6

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NH4RonPaul/message/309

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=7019&postcount=4

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=7926&postcount=10

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=10449

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=153695&postcount=24

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/boards/view/viewthread?thread=3085887

slantedview

09-11-2007, 02:27 PM

I still say he needs to be left behind. The assistants (and former, recently fired assistants) need to start a new group. If someone like Bill or Jay get on board, the other members will follow. No question about it.

Seriously. This whole thing shouldn't be such a hassle. It's a waste of everyone's time/resources. Just start a new group and leave the problem behind.

DjLoTi

09-11-2007, 02:29 PM

Wow, I read some of those links and I can't believe what I'm reading. This must be how they really take down presidential hopefuls.

nullvalu

09-11-2007, 02:36 PM

fuck 'em, ignore 'em, start a new group and move on..

thanks for the investigative work mdh.. we should be aware of what's going on, but shouldn't dwell on it.

mdh

09-11-2007, 02:36 PM

This really makes me wonder how many other meetup.com group owners are a part of this Clifton Coalition thing. How many other meetups have been compromised thusly? It is clearly causing a real problem in Philadelphia, can we maybe identify some other compromised groups and try to deal with them before a problem of this nature arises?

brandon

09-11-2007, 02:42 PM

It's been confirmed, and I felt it needed its own thread so as not to derail Sematary's pleas for petition signatures. The organizer of the Greater Philadelphia Meetup is a part of the Clifton Coalition group, and has removed any assistant organizers from the group who refuse to cooperate with that group's agenda.

Caveat emptor.

I am a philly meetup member, and the organizer for a university in philadelphia. If this is true, I will take action right away.

But I need PROOF> You can't make a statement like this without giving reasoning and solid proof. It is simply slander to say this with no facts to back it up.

well...

mdh

09-11-2007, 02:44 PM

I am a philly meetup member, and the organizer for a university in philadelphia. If this is true, I will take action right away.

But I need PROOF> You can't make a statement like this without giving reasoning and solid proof. It is simply slander to say this with no facts to back it up.

well...

Several people who asked not to be "outted" confirmed this to me in PM. I won't betray their trust. I'll go ahead and ask them to contact you personally, though.

Also, stating that someone is affiliated with a given group via the written word can never be slander. It could be interpretted as libel by some, but seriously, that's an insane stretch. :p

brandon

09-11-2007, 02:45 PM

Several people who asked not to be "outted" confirmed this to me in PM. I won't betray their trust. I'll go ahead and ask them to contact you personally, though.

Either you must out them, they need to contact me directly, or you should retract this accusation. It is detrimental to our whole grassroots effort to have this type of stuff going on.

On one hand we have these "clifton" people who same claim are creating divide in our grassroots support. On the other hand we have people making unsubstantiated accusations against group leaders, which is creating divide in our grassroots campaign.

Someone just be honest and say what you know.

McDermit

09-11-2007, 02:48 PM

I am a philly meetup member, and the organizer for a university in philadelphia. If this is true, I will take action right away.

But I need PROOF> You can't make a statement like this without giving reasoning and solid proof. It is simply slander to say this with no facts to back it up.

well...

Just ask Gavin why he's no longer an assistant organizer.

Also, it says right on his page.. What is your individual goal for this group?
"Organizer of the Greater Philadelphia Ron Paul Presidential Campaign and the Pennsylvania State Coordinator to the Paul for President Coalition."

abstrusezincate

09-11-2007, 02:48 PM

The problem you are going to run into is this: Many people join all sorts of groups not knowing what they are getting into. Not all of the Clifton Coalition people are bad. Some of them just see that as another resource.

Now, their leadership...that's another matter.

maxmerkel

09-11-2007, 02:49 PM

Wow, I read some of those links and I can't believe what I'm reading. This must be how they really take down presidential hopefuls.

this is unbelievable! maybe we should start a "contact all meetups" type of thing and ask 2-3 persons ins each meetup how they like the meetup and the leader and if they think they do enough and stuff ??

McDermit

09-11-2007, 02:49 PM

mdh

09-11-2007, 02:50 PM

Either you must out them, they need to contact me directly, or you should retract this accusation. It is detrimental to our whole grassroots effort to have this type of stuff going on.

I am not going to out them, and I am not going to retract this. Several independent individuals came to me via PM and confirmed this. I have gone ahead and sent each of them a PM and said that they may wish to contact you directly.

Furthermore, the fact that has been publicly stated that the organizer in question has in his email signature that he is a part of this group stands on its own as evidence; even above and beyond all of the information that was shared with me in confidence by people from the Philadelphia area.

brandon

09-11-2007, 03:00 PM

I am not going to out them, and I am not going to retract this. Several independent individuals came to me via PM and confirmed this. I have gone ahead and sent each of them a PM and said that they may wish to contact you directly.

Furthermore, the fact that has been publicly stated that the organizer in question has in his email signature that he is a part of this group stands on its own as evidence; even above and beyond all of the information that was shared with me in confidence by people from the Philadelphia area.

Gotcha...

I am just trying to make sence of all this and save our rally and my cities grassroots campaign. There are ALOT of shady things going on within our meetup.
Apparently George is away for the day and wont be able to comment on this until tonight or tomorrow. Someone claims as recently as last night he said the rally was off.

It looks like we need a leadership change, but i'll give him a day or two to plead his case.

UCFGavin

09-11-2007, 03:08 PM

you guys better not let the rally off the hook, you've already put so much work and effort into it.

tmg19103

09-11-2007, 04:00 PM

you guys better not let the rally off the hook, you've already put so much work and effort into it.

We are doing our best - and one person is doing his best to make it not happen. Gee, I wonder why?

jpa

09-11-2007, 04:31 PM

Here is your proof:

Dr. Tom (the guy who was in the young gay meetup, screwed with perot, had conspiracy charges against him) who split from NYC meet up to create a "young professionals" group that gets zero traffic.

Here is his posts linking to George in Philly, and part of the "Clifton Coalition"
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/143/messages/641391/

"Dear Coalition Members & Friends:"
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/143/messages/702196/

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=621801
4-Putting a national infrastructure in place to accomplish concrete campaign tasks:
A crucial organizing ‘gap’ evident most of the grassroots activity so far is in the addressing the mechanical work that is needed to get Ron Paul on the ballot the various primaries, or enough people organized to help him win in the caucuses. The resources of the national campaign (money and personnel-wise) are stretched nough as it is, yet it needs a solid structure within each state in order to provide him delegates, conduct petition drives, and secure sufficient local endorsements and fundraising totals. Depending on the state procedures, it will take either a small army, or a huge army to accomplish these tasks for Paul. The Coalition has been about the only party (other than the campaign itself) concerned about this nuts and bolts element, and so has talked up building a support network to help the campaign in this area.

John Clifton is running for NY governor LP party
http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ny/state/vote/clifton_j/
But his website doesn't work http://www.electclifton.org/

tmg19103

09-11-2007, 04:37 PM

Amazing! And for whatever reason, George - who is in with booted Tom Stevens, is against a big Philly Rally at Independence Mall that will draw temendous media exposure and help the campaign.

Here is your proof:

Dr. Tom (the guy who was in the young gay meetup, screwed with perot, had conspiracy charges against him) who split from NYC meet up to create a "young professionals" group that gets zero traffic.

Here is his posts linking to George in Philly, and part of the "Clifton Coalition"
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/143/messages/641391/

"Dear Coalition Members & Friends:"
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/143/messages/702196/

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=621801
4-Putting a national infrastructure in place to accomplish concrete campaign tasks:
A crucial organizing ‘gap’ evident most of the grassroots activity so far is in the addressing the mechanical work that is needed to get Ron Paul on the ballot the various primaries, or enough people organized to help him win in the caucuses. The resources of the national campaign (money and personnel-wise) are stretched nough as it is, yet it needs a solid structure within each state in order to provide him delegates, conduct petition drives, and secure sufficient local endorsements and fundraising totals. Depending on the state procedures, it will take either a small army, or a huge army to accomplish these tasks for Paul. The Coalition has been about the only party (other than the campaign itself) concerned about this nuts and bolts element, and so has talked up building a support network to help the campaign in this area.

njjack

09-11-2007, 04:40 PM

I can confirm that the coalition has established meetups in northern New Jersey to compete with grassroots efforts. The coalition is trying to recruit new volunteers for their top down structure that goes against the soul of the 10th amendment of things being local and grassroots. The coalition, eastern alliance or whatever they want to call themselves is not supportive of grassroots.

THEY ARE ANTI-GRASSROOTS!!!

BE VIGILIANT, STAY ALERT, BE ON THE LOOK OUT

The coalition is a scam!

-

maggiebott

09-11-2007, 04:42 PM

What a complete asshole this Feezer bloke is! I still see no reason for a petition signing since he has no credibility in my eyes. Better get your act together Philly and start to weed out your moles.

I know we could do with a house cleaning even in this forum.

SewrRatt

09-11-2007, 04:45 PM

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=621801
4-Putting a national infrastructure in place to accomplish concrete campaign tasks:
A crucial organizing ‘gap’ evident most of the grassroots activity so far is in the addressing the mechanical work that is needed to get Ron Paul on the ballot the various primaries, or enough people organized to help him win in the caucuses. The resources of the national campaign (money and personnel-wise) are stretched nough as it is, yet it needs a solid structure within each state in order to provide him delegates, conduct petition drives, and secure sufficient local endorsements and fundraising totals. Depending on the state procedures, it will take either a small army, or a huge army to accomplish these tasks for Paul. The Coalition has been about the only party (other than the campaign itself) concerned about this nuts and bolts element, and so has talked up building a support network to help the campaign in this area.

Nuts and bolts is the campaign's business. Diverting money away from the campaign for their own organization will hurt the campaign. The grassroots' job is to get the word out, not to in some bizarre way create a parallel bureaucracy completely out of Ron Paul's control, taking a portion of the money, working on what it, rather than the campaign, feels is beneficial. And that's assuming the most noble of intentions. We already have a structured organization devoted to getting Ron Paul elected, the fucking campaign. Creating a separate organization is at best folly and at worst sabotage. Who do you trust to act in Ron Paul's political interests, Ron Paul or some control freak jackass who gathers people and money under his umbrella and hoards them there unless people kneel before him and follow his orders?

Mr. White

09-11-2007, 04:46 PM

Sounds like he wants to be the mouthpiece for your group. When your rally comes off, he'll get credit and be allowed to speak about Paul at which point he will push his own agenda.

UtahApocalypse

09-11-2007, 04:50 PM

How can you find if someone is part of this? I think the problems that happened here in SLC awhile back may need to be checked against this new info.

tmg19103

09-11-2007, 05:17 PM

Sounds like he wants to be the mouthpiece for your group. When your rally comes off, he'll get credit and be allowed to speak about Paul at which point he will push his own agenda.

Nope, he has been offered top billing and the ability to run the show in a last ditch effort to get him to agree before all Hell broke loose today. He does not want the huge Philly Rally and has offered no explanation - even though everyone else in the Philly MeetUp wants it.

mdh

09-11-2007, 05:20 PM

Nope, he has been offered top billing and the ability to run the show in a last ditch effort to get him to agree before all Hell broke loose today. He does not want the huge Philly Rally and has offered no explanation - even though everyone else in the Philly MeetUp wants it.

Any idea what he and his Clifton Coalition pals do want?

tmg19103

09-11-2007, 05:27 PM

Any idea what he and his Clifton Coalition pals do want?

None. Speculation has been to sabotage the campaign, or in the alternative if these guys are not moles to seek exposure/credit/glory in some other fashion - perhaps up in the NYC area. Who knows, maybe they get kicks out of being able to manipulate people for some better good that only they understand.

rich34

09-11-2007, 05:28 PM

Call a vote then. If the majority agrees to it, tell ole dude to get on the train, or get the #@$# off!!

constituent

09-11-2007, 05:29 PM

None. Speculation has been to sabotage the campaign, or in the alternative if these guys are not moles to seek exposure/credit/glory in some other fashion - perhaps up in the NYC area. Who knows, maybe they get kicks out of being able to manipulate people for some better good that only they understand.

ahhh yes the moneyed classes.

njjack

09-11-2007, 05:36 PM

anyone that is in a meetup group that falls underneath the coalition, should get your friends together and start a new meetup. This was the solution in NYC, New Jersey groups are standing strong by not becoming a part of the coalition. Philly was a different animal since the organizer (the guy who has the meetup account with the group and is paying the bill) is part of the coalition.

the best solution for philly and any other group this is happening to is to have the membership start another meetup. ASAP!!!

...

max

09-11-2007, 05:42 PM

get a load of how Tom Stevens...the Godfather of the "Clifton Coalition"... takes a cheap shot at NYC organizer for not wanting to pool under Philly.

Why should the biggest city in USA pool under a smaller city???

Who does this guy think he is to criticize Avery for "non cooperation"

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/143/messages/702196/

constituent

09-11-2007, 06:21 PM

wow... what a pic... heil hitler! he seems to be saying...

and did you catch his friends?

i wonder if that "fletch" wouldn't happen to
be our forum friend "fletcher"

speciallyblend

09-11-2007, 06:28 PM

brandon

09-11-2007, 06:29 PM

Does anyone have a list of all email addys of the members of philly meetup?

If not, we need to compile one ASAP in case the group splits and any funny business goes down

jpa

09-11-2007, 06:36 PM

Any idea what he and his Clifton Coalition pals do want?

theories at this point
- email address & supporter lists for LP candidates like Clifton (harmless)
- perot like incident where he sabotaged the campaign (likely with Dr. Tom)
- Power & control.. feed their ego
- Help Ron Paul win, with a zeal for control of the grassroots campaign
- support for their pet issues (the vote fraud stuff in Iowa was the latest example)

nyjohn

09-11-2007, 07:01 PM

That Tom guy is an assistant organizer in my area....
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/716/?gj=sj6

Looks like I'm gonna keep going solo....

Cowlesy

09-11-2007, 07:04 PM

That Tom guy is an assistant organizer in my area....
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/716/?gj=sj6

Looks like I'm gonna keep going solo....

Well if you don't feel like your group is making this campaign fun, why not join Ron Paul 50 "Manhattan+ Ron Paul Action Group NYC"? We are at 550 members, and have a lot of fun campaigning for Ron Paul! We have lots of folks from NY, NJ and CT not to mention supporters from all over the nation.

mdh

09-11-2007, 07:06 PM

I spoke to Brad Tirpak today who is a member of the group which Cowlesy is talking about, and he said it's a very good group, with good leadership and activities planning.

njjack

09-11-2007, 07:15 PM

McDermit

09-11-2007, 08:11 PM

Well if you don't feel like your group is making this campaign fun, why not join Ron Paul 50 "Manhattan+ Ron Paul Action Group NYC"? We are at 550 members, and have a lot of fun campaigning for Ron Paul! We have lots of folks from NY, NJ and CT not to mention supporters from all over the nation.

This is a great group! Avery is an awesome organizer.

My girlfriend and I get up to the city a few times a month, and we always try to get involved in some local activity while we're there. A couple weeks from now, she's flyering at a concert. She sent a group email with the info, and Avery quickly added it to the calendar so others could get involved, no questions asked. That's how events should be handled.

I'd recommend the Manhattan+ group to anyone, any day. Even if you only participate onc in a blue moon, it's still an awesome group!

McDermit

09-11-2007, 08:15 PM

theories at this point
- email address & supporter lists for LP candidates like Clifton (harmless)
- perot like incident where he sabotaged the campaign (likely with Dr. Tom)
- Power & control.. feed their ego
- Help Ron Paul win, with a zeal for control of the grassroots campaign
- support for their pet issues (the vote fraud stuff in Iowa was the latest example)

I completely forgot that they were involved with the vote fraud thing. The campaign specifically said they didn't want any of that shit connected to RP, and they pushed it anyway. :rolleyes:

RiverRat

09-11-2007, 08:25 PM

I say do the rally anyway and forget about the ass and keep moving forward. He will look like a fool as he is already,he was given a chance,you dont need his money just find more grassroots supporters and move forward,the guy is an ass plain and simple,id love for him to come to colorado so i can get a piece of him,why not start a thread to overflow his email and just annoy the dumbass,ill email him everyday,he should just join the rudolf team and kick him out of the meet up or just form a new one and dont allow him to be involved enuff said
I too am from Colorado but we don't need to waste time with these guys. If they are power and control freaks they are going to have a hard time with libertarians as we are an independent type. Kinda like herding cats actually. Get the information for the group and get it PUBLIC. If they have an interest in keeping it private then the only reason for that is control and likely for a nefarious purpose. Anyway, get it public and then just start emailing. If people WANT to do it then there is no reason not to. I'd love to see a large shopping mall flooded with 100s of people decked out in Ron Paul attire, "singing songs and a carryin signs" (to borrow from CS&N), and handing out campaign stuff. And if it is big enough then you can rest assured that it will make the news (although it helps if you call them too:) ).

speciallyblend

09-11-2007, 09:32 PM

I too am from Colorado but we don't need to waste time with these guys. If they are power and control freaks they are going to have a hard time with libertarians as we are an independent type. Kinda like herding cats actually. Get the information for the group and get it PUBLIC. If they have an interest in keeping it private then the only reason for that is control and likely for a nefarious purpose. Anyway, get it public and then just start emailing. If people WANT to do it then there is no reason not to. I'd love to see a large shopping mall flooded with 100s of people decked out in Ron Paul attire, "singing songs and a carryin signs" (to borrow from CS&N), and handing out campaign stuff. And if it is big enough then you can rest assured that it will make the news (although it helps if you call them too:) ).

I just hate control freaks,but i do hear you river rat.It was just my rant:)

aknappjr

09-12-2007, 04:05 AM

I spoke to Brad Tirpak today who is a member of the group which Cowlesy is talking about, and he said it's a very good group, with good leadership and activities planning.

Thank you. Brad and Cowlsey are part of that leadership.

aknappjr

09-12-2007, 04:05 AM

That Tom guy is an assistant organizer in my area....
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/716/?gj=sj6

Looks like I'm gonna keep going solo....

If you need help creating a new group, I think I can do it for you for free (I think you get 3 or 4 meetup groups for the price of 1).

Kuldebar

09-12-2007, 05:22 AM

It's staying de-centralized that will minimize damage from people or groups with malicious intent. Large scale efforts involving more than one or more local groups should be coordinated carefully to ensure nothing gets derailed or subverted.

And, vigilance, as always is necessary. Don't be too trusting about people until they have proven themselves to you, and even then keep your radar engaged.