Public Colleges and Universities

[paulaholic]

Hey everyone,

I'm a junior in high school and over the past few months, I've started my college search. I'm trying to avoid public schools because their existence seems to go against my libertarian beliefs, but I was just wondering if some of you could give me your opinions on whether or not this is accurate.

[dannno]

You're going to pay for them with your taxes, so you have every right to use them while at the same time espousing the ills of such institutions.

On the other hand, if you want to support private institutions, then that is certainly reasonable as well.

[go_carolina_528]

Hey everyone,

I'm a junior in high school and over the past few months, I've started my college search. I'm trying to avoid public schools because their existence seems to go against my libertarian beliefs, but I was just wondering if some of you could give me your opinions on whether or not this is accurate.

Check and see if the schools have a young libertarians club. I am a senior in high school and am going to attend a instate school for college due to the conservative nature of many of the universities in the state.

[surf]

You're going to pay for them with your taxes, so you have every right to use them while at the same time espousing the ills of such institutions.


Even if money weren't a factor, you should base your decision on what you believe will provide you the best education. don't base your decision solely on the immorality of "public" universities, be practical and "selfish," do what's best for your future.

edit: if you are considering studying econ or some other "bogus" degree like poli-sci, then it is imperative that you investigate the overall tone of the econ or poli-sci college before you apply. studying econ under a Keynesian professor is hellish if you are a free-market proponent.

my .02.

[DeadheadForPaul]

You need to ask other questions first before asking "should I go to a PUBLIC university"

Important ones:

1.) What will give you the best education/bang for your buck? You can check the college rankings. Any two schools within 15 spots of each other are usually pretty comparable. In some cases, a public college may be the best school in your area (Cal Berkeley, other UC schools, UVA, UNC, etc.). In other cases, it may be a private one.

2.) Can you pay for it? Public schools tend to be cheaper (and you're already paying for them via taxation anyway)

3.) As for the question, "should I go to a public university given my libertarian beliefs?", I say YES. You are being forced to subsidize their existence, so you are being forced to pay a user fee. Given that, you should feel no shame in using it to further your education. Otherwise, you'd be burning money. Your best fit for a school may be a private one but don't rule out the public schools.

[yongrel]

This is coming from a student at a private institution, but:

if your state has decent public schools, don't hesitate to go to them. Many state schools offer superior education to private schools that cost 3 times as much. Also, don't forget that you can transfer. The first two years of college mostly consist of taking general education requirements anyways, and there's nothing to say you can't take BIO 101 and HIST 102 at your state school for cheap before transferring somewhere more expensive.

As far as reconciling public school attendance with libertarianism, you do it the same way you drive on public roads. You're forced to pay for the service and the government has created enormous obstacles (in the case of schools, inflated private prices) to your not using their resources. Go to public school, get good grades, and do great things for liberty with your degree.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I'm going to second that the first 2 years is best spent in a Community College - cost and quality of education wise, if you can't afford a private college. Much lower tuition, small classes, better eduction.

That said, check out these schools:

http://www.ctcl.org/

it's a short list and remember that private schools offer varying degrees of financial aid. I believe there is one in Atlanta that will give you a 100% scholarship if you have the need and grades.

-t

[ShannonOBrien]

I went to private and public school and my private school education was far superior to my public school education. That was the biggest deciding factor to me.

As far as if it goes against libertarian beliefs, that is tough. On the one hand, if I was against public roads, I wouldn't very well stop driving. But maybe it is important to do what you can. For example, you don't have a choice when you use public roads. They are the only roads available. But you have a choice as to whether to go to a public school or a private school. I promise I won't hold it against you in whatever you decide. :D

[The_Orlonater]

I went to private and public school and my private school education was far superior to my public school education. That was the biggest deciding factor to me.

As far as if it goes against libertarian beliefs, that is tough. On the one hand, if I was against public roads, I wouldn't very well stop driving. But maybe it is important to do what you can. For example, you don't have a choice when you use public roads. They are the only roads available. But you have a choice as to whether to go to a public school or a private school. I promise I won't hold it against you in whatever you decide. :D

It's a useless choice anyway, the state accredits private schools. I heard the same amount of pro-government BS in the Catholic school I went to.

[sratiug]

It's a useless choice anyway, the state accredits private schools. I heard the same amount of pro-government BS in the Catholic school I went to.

And I've read that private colleges actually get more federal public money than public colleges.

[trey4sports]

dude, go to a state school
state schools tend to be poon central

[tangent4ronpaul]

And I've read that private colleges actually get more federal public money than public colleges.

Reference please.

[StudentForPaul08]

When I was choosing my College I told my counselor that I was looking into state schools because of the cost, she told me not to do that because private colleges come to the same cost most of the time due to financial aid.

[yongrel]

When I was choosing my College I told my counselor that I was looking into state schools because of the cost, she told me not to do that because private colleges come to the same cost most of the time due to financial aid.

That was the case for me. My state school with in-state rates ended up costing more per semester than my private school with merit aide and school scholarships.

[OferNave]

Hey everyone,

I'm a junior in high school and over the past few months, I've started my college search. I'm trying to avoid public schools because their existence seems to go against my libertarian beliefs, but I was just wondering if some of you could give me your opinions on whether or not this is accurate.

Well, I think there are two parts to your concern (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) I don't want to use public funding because of the argument that it's immoral
2) I don't want to go to a school that will teach pro-government propaganda

Here are my responses to these questions:

1) Fear not! Go to any school you like, take any scholarships or Fed-backed student loans, have a great time. Remember - you didn't create the present situation. It's not your duty to live like a monk because society is corrupt. You're going to pay more taxes in your lifetime than you'll consume going to school. You're using the funds for a productive person - educating yourself and getting that piece of paper. Better than a bridge to nowhere. When you start paying income taxes, you're going to use every legal measure to reduce the taxes you pay, right? This is no different. Trying to follow some rule like "I'll only try to get back what I earned and no more" is impossible - you can't begin to measure the damage the government has done to you by existing, and therefore reducing the opportunities in society. We'd all be a hundred times wealthier without government. So the bottom line is - take what you can, and put it to good use. This is a "state of nature", violence is how society has unfortunately chosen to conduct it's affairs. Trying to apply ethics to the question of accepting a student loan is masochism.

Stefan Molyneux (host of http://freedomainradio.com/) has some excellent arguments regarding this, but I can't seem to find the right podcast rihgt now.

2) On this front, I have bad news - every decent university in the country is going to present you with this problem. Nothing you can do about it. If you're allergic to bullshit, pick something in science or engineering. If you still want to go into humanities, like economics (or if you really like pain: philosophy), then know that your ideas will generally not be tolerated. In general, I would say that the more a field is resistant to truth, the more it is bullshit, and therefore the less they have to teach you, and the less reason to choose that as a major - assuming you're going to learn. If you just want the piece of paper, then you don't need advice - do what it takes to get what you came for.

Finally, I'd like to recommend Dartmouth (if you can get in) or University of New Hampshire, since then you can be in NH with the Free State Project (I'm shameless). :) Good place to be if the shit hits the fan during your college years.

[paulaholic]

Thanks everyone for your sound advice.

Now, does anyone know of colleges that are libertarian friendly, especially in regards to curriculum? I know this will be tough.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Thanks everyone for your sound advice.

Now, does anyone know of colleges that are libertarian friendly, especially in regards to curriculum? I know this will be tough.

None.

You may find some faculty in the economics department and maybe the rare 1 or 2 in the history, philosophy, or poli sci departments...but for the most part, none.

You will have to accept the fact that your professors are biased and will shoot down your libertarian opinions

I got through my poli sci classes by simply stating the arguments in our texts. For example, I would support an argument by saying that "Political scientist _______ ________ believes that government intervention in the economy is essential for the modern state." That way, I did not compromise my own beliefs while also satisfying the professor

[libertarian4321]

Thanks everyone for your sound advice.

Now, does anyone know of colleges that are libertarian friendly, especially in regards to curriculum? I know this will be tough.

Well, if you are looking for a "non-liberal" school, your best bet is probably a tech or engineering school. The kind of school where "political science" is an annoying elective you have to take to give the appearance of a balanced education.

When I went to Rensselaer Polytech (RPI) 25 years ago, it was about as apolitical as a college can get- people were more concerned with their Thermodynamics test than with political affairs.

[rational thinker]

As far as reconciling public school attendance with libertarianism, you do it the same way you drive on public roads. You're forced to pay for the service and the government has created enormous obstacles (in the case of schools, inflated private prices) to your not using their resources. Go to public school, get good grades, and do great things for liberty with your degree.

Public roads? How can you make that comparison? How else would you get from point A to point B?

[rockandrollsouls]

Go to a community college for your first 2 years and bang out your core classes. I think this is an important first step that will save you quite a bit of money.

Next, I don't think it matters where you get your bachelor's. That degree really doesn't mean much.

Finally, save your cash for your masters. I think people get too carried away paying a ton of money for a bachelor's degree. Save it for your masters at a good school.

In today's day and age where college is absurdly overpriced and our economy is tanking, you probably want to stay as far away from debt as you can and this is probably the best way to do it. Gerald Celente himself has suggested going to a community college to save some coin.

Good luck!

[tangent4ronpaul]

Thanks everyone for your sound advice.

Now, does anyone know of colleges that are libertarian friendly, especially in regards to curriculum? I know this will be tough.

GWU has some profs who concentrate on Australian Economics in the economics dept...

Some of the Poly Sci profs at American University seem pretty much on our side.

I remember seeing a list of famous/notable libertarians out on the web, broken down by profession. I bet the list includes professors - find a name, find where they teach and...

-t

[rockandrollsouls]

GWU has some profs who concentrate on Australian Economics in the economics dept...

Some of the Poly Sci profs at American University seem pretty much on our side.

I remember seeing a list of famous/notable libertarians out on the web, broken down by profession. I bet the list includes professors - find a name, find where they teach and...

-t

George Mason and Grove City are good, too, I hear.

[Mesogen]

Hey everyone,

I'm a junior in high school and over the past few months, I've started my college search. I'm trying to avoid public schools because their existence seems to go against my libertarian beliefs, but I was just wondering if some of you could give me your opinions on whether or not this is accurate.

I've got news for you. All the "private" colleges and universities are not totally private, at least as far as funding goes.

All of them take federal and state money to do research, and about half of that money is absorbed by the university.

So if a professor gets a $500,000 federal grant to do research, the university sucks up about $250,000 of it.

A lot of research institutes and centers, or even medical centers, are also started off with tax money. Some aren't and they have the name of the donor, eg "Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Center" or some crap like that. But there are some that have people's names on it and they donated a lot of the money, but a lot of it also came from federal or state grants.

So, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. Just look for the best education.