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Galileo Galilei
12-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship

By Sam Greenhill

Last updated at 1:16 AM on 20th December 2008

Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.

But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.

Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target. The Cunard vessel, steaming from New York to Liverpool, was sunk eight miles off the Irish coast by a U-boat.

Maintaining that the Lusitania was solely a passenger vessel, the British quickly accused the 'Pirate Hun' of slaughtering civilians.

The disaster was used to whip up anti-German anger, especially in the U.S., where 128 of the 1,198 victims came from.

A hundred of the dead were children, many of them under two.

Robert Lansing, the U.S. secretary of state, later wrote that the sinking gave him the 'conviction we would ultimately become the ally of Britain'.

Americans were even told, falsely, that German children were given a day off school to celebrate the sinking of the Lusitania.

The disaster inspired a multitude of recruitment posters demanding vengeance for the victims. One, famously showing a young mother slipping below the waves with her baby, carried the simple slogan 'Enlist'.

Two years later, the Americans joined the Allies as an associated power - a decision that turned the war decisively against Germany.

The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft.

The Germans had insisted the Lusitania - the fastest liner in the North Atlantic - was being used as a weapons ship to break the blockade Berlin had been trying to impose around Britain since the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914. Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty and has long been suspected of knowing more about the circumstances of the attack than he let on in public, wrote in a confidential letter shortly before the sinking that some German submarine attacks were to be welcomed. He said: 'It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hope especially of embroiling the U.S. with Germany. 'For our part we want the traffic - the more the better and if some of it gets into trouble, better still.' Hampton Sides, a writer with Men's Vogue in the U.S., witnessed the divers' discovery. He said: 'They are bullets that were expressly manufactured to kill Germans in World War I - bullets that British officials in Whitehall, and American officials in Washington, have long denied were aboard the Lusitania.' The discovery may help explain why the 787ft Lusitania sank within 18 minutes of a single German torpedo slamming into its hull. Some of the 764 survivors reported a second explosion which might have been munitions going off. Gregg Bemis, an American businessman who owns the rights to the wreck and is funding its exploration, said: 'Those four million rounds of .303s were not just some private hunter's stash. 'Now that we've found it, the British can't deny any more that there was ammunition on board. That raises the question of what else was on board. 'There were literally tons and tons of stuff stored in unrefrigerated cargo holds that were dubiously marked cheese, butter and oysters. 'I've always felt there were some significant high explosives in the holds - shells, powder, gun cotton - that were set off by the torpedo and the inflow of water. That's what sank the ship.' Mr Bemis is planning to commission further dives next year in a full-scale forensic examination of the wreck off County Cork. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098904/Secret-Lusitania-Arms-challenges-Allied-claims-solely-passenger-ship.html?ITO=1490

Uriel999
12-27-2008, 03:33 PM
It has been for years (decades?) that the Lusitania was carrying arms

demolama
12-27-2008, 05:59 PM
yeah.. anyone who knows anything about ships knew there was no way the ship would have sunk as fast as it did with just 1 torpedo hit if it wasn't carrying things it shouldn't

Galileo Galilei
12-27-2008, 07:01 PM
How we got into World War I - clip from Zeitgeist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8aXe1XOGw4

Anti Federalist
12-27-2008, 11:28 PM
From the article:

The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft.

The Germans had insisted the Lusitania - the fastest liner in the North Atlantic - was being used as a weapons ship to break the blockade Berlin had been trying to impose around Britain since the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914.

Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty and has long been suspected of knowing more about the circumstances of the attack than he let on in public, wrote in a confidential letter shortly before the sinking that some German submarine attacks were to be welcomed.

He said: 'It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hope especially of embroiling the U.S. with Germany.

'For our part we want the traffic - the more the better and if some of it gets into trouble, better still.'

Hampton Sides, a writer with Men's Vogue in the U.S., witnessed the divers' discovery.
He said: 'They are bullets that were expressly manufactured to kill Germans in World War I - bullets that British officials in Whitehall, and American officials in Washington, have long denied were aboard the Lusitania.'

Now, it has been long questioned why U-boat reports from land spotters around Cork and Kinsale were not passed on by the Admiralty's intelligence service to the owners and masters of vessels approaching the Irish coast. The bold quote from Churchill explains why, since Churchill would have been calling the shots on whether to release that information or not.

Here's how it goes...

USS Maine was never attacked by the Spanish at Havana, Cuba.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for the Spanish-American War.

HMS Lusitania was carrying weapons and ammunition, in violation of neutrality accords.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for entry into WWI.

The plans of a Japanese attack at Pearl were known weeks in advance, Kimmel and Short, the commanders of land and naval forces at Pearl, were exonerated, posthumously, of their court martial charges after it became clear that critical intelligence about the forthcoming attack was deliberately withheld from them at the time.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for entry into WWII.

The USS Maddox, was never attacked by North Vietnamese gunboats in the Gulf of Tonkin. Recently released LBJ tapes and DoD notes have now made this public.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for escalation in the Vietnam "conflict" through the Gulf of Tonkin resolution.

The events of 9/11 do not fit the official story.

Government and media lies that are still ongoing at this time, are whipping up support for a war that we have been told will never end.

Every single one of these events, every single major conflict (with the exception, possibly, of Korea - that was bad enough for other reasons) that this nation has been propelled into, for the past 100 years, was precipitated by an event that the facts of which were kept hidden, covered up, lied about or outright fabricated at the time.

There is a name for such an "operation":

FALSE FLAG - INSIDE JOB!!!!!

lucius
12-28-2008, 12:30 AM
From the article:

The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft.

The Germans had insisted the Lusitania - the fastest liner in the North Atlantic - was being used as a weapons ship to break the blockade Berlin had been trying to impose around Britain since the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914.

Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty and has long been suspected of knowing more about the circumstances of the attack than he let on in public, wrote in a confidential letter shortly before the sinking that some German submarine attacks were to be welcomed.

He said: 'It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hope especially of embroiling the U.S. with Germany.

'For our part we want the traffic - the more the better and if some of it gets into trouble, better still.'

Hampton Sides, a writer with Men's Vogue in the U.S., witnessed the divers' discovery.
He said: 'They are bullets that were expressly manufactured to kill Germans in World War I - bullets that British officials in Whitehall, and American officials in Washington, have long denied were aboard the Lusitania.'

Now, it has been long questioned why U-boat reports from land spotters around Cork and Kinsale were not passed on by the Admiralty's intelligence service to the owners and masters of vessels approaching the Irish coast. The bold quote from Churchill explains why, since Churchill would have been calling the shots on whether to release that information or not.

Here's how it goes...

USS Maine was never attacked by the Spanish at Havana, Cuba.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for the Spanish-American War.

HMS Lusitania was carrying weapons and ammunition, in violation of neutrality accords.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for entry into WWI.

The plans of a Japanese attack at Pearl were known weeks in advance, Kimmel and Short, the commanders of land and naval forces at Pearl, were exonerated, posthumously, of their court martial charges after it became clear that critical intelligence about the forthcoming attack was deliberately withheld from them at the time.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for entry into WWII.

The USS Maddox, was never attacked by North Vietnamese gunboats in the Gulf of Tonkin. Recently released LBJ tapes and DoD notes have now made this public.

Government and media lies at the time whipped up support for escalation in the Vietnam "conflict" through the Gulf of Tonkin resolution.

The events of 9/11 do not fit the official story.

Government and media lies that are still ongoing at this time, are whipping up support for a war that we have been told will never end.

Every single one of these events, every single major conflict (with the exception, possibly, of Korea - that was bad enough for other reasons) that this nation has been propelled into, for the past 100 years, was precipitated by an event that the facts of which were kept hidden, covered up, lied about or outright fabricated at the time.

There is a name for such an "operation":

FALSE FLAG - INSIDE JOB!!!!!


My perspective as well... (+1)

Excellent book on this: Lusitania by Colin Simpson (ISBN: 0582127076)

This review is from: Lusitania (Paperback)
The late James Burnham remarked that among Great Britian's major exports, hypocricy was the formost of their exports. Colin Simpson's book titled THE LUSITANIA is yet one more classic example of such hypocricy. This is a well written and thoroughly documented account of the actual status of THE LUSITANIA and the background to the attack with took place in 1915.

Simpson gave his readers a solid background of the behind-the-scenes efforts of what some call The Eastern Establishment to prod Americans into war with the Germans during World War I. The Hate Germany rhetoric in this country was incited by Eastern Establishment Anglophiles in their efforts to elicit support for the British while creating lies and distortions about alleged German atrocities which never took place. As an aside Posonby's book undermines these myths and folklore nonsense.

Simpson documented how bankers and the plutocratic rich used every means fair or foul to arm the British during the early phases of World War I. While the Americans were supposedly neutral, these men used their financial connections to support the British when the supposedly easy victory of the "allies" over their German rivals proved to be anything but easy. While President Wilson and some in his administration preached neutrality in 1914 and 1915, Wilson and some of his advisers were actively planning to enlist U.S. support and military intervention against the Germans as early as 1915 in violation of both U.S. law and international law.

Simson was very comprehensive and clear about the status of THE LUSITANIA and other British vessels operated by the Cunard line. Under international law, merchant ships ( civilian vessels) were not to armed. If a civilian vessel were armed, that ship was subject to attack by enemy naval commanders as though the ship was a naval military vessel. THE LUSITANIA and many other British civilian vessels were indeed armed. Simpson is clear that THE LUSITANIA was not only armed, the ship was registered in the British navy as an auxillary battle cruiser which made the ship a legal military target under international law. When the British lied about THE LUSITANIA being armed, British officials were embarrassed when Cunard officials who owned the vessel boasted about THE LUSITANIA's restructuring for armament. Simpson detailed the construction of the ship to contain gun placements, and THE LUSITANIA's crew ordered passangers away from where the guns were.

Readers will discover that British sea captains who were in charge of ships such as THE LUSITANIA often hoisted the American flag on the high seas. When German U Boat commanders would surface to warn what they thought was an American ship of possible danger, the British commanders would order the shooting of the German submarine or ramming the subermarine.

An interesting anecdote is the fact that THE LUSITANIA would have been attacked sooner had some of the German U Boat commanders had a current manual indentifying THE LUSITANIA as resistered as a naval vessel and not a civilian vessel. However, the Germans did indeed get current manuals and gave warning in New York City newspapers of the danger that U.S. passangers assumed if they travelled on this ship. In fact, President was derelect in his duty as President when he failed to enforce a U.S. law forbidding U.S. civilians from travelling on ships and trains carrying munitions and explosives. THE LUSITANIA was carrying such cargo in addition to being armed.

The conditions leading to the attack are criminal. The British were aware of a German submarine in the area of THE LUSITIANIA's. THE LUSITANIA had a naval escort that was inexplicably withdrawn when the vessel approached the coast of Ireland exposing the vessel to attack. After the attack, British naval captains threatened civilian boaters with attack if these civilians tried to rescue the passangers. The British government was trying to increase the casuality rate to inflame American opinion.

British hypocricy was further exposed in this book in subsequent hearing about the sinking of THE LUSITIANIA. The deceit and lying of British government officials was witheld from the hearings in an attempt to blame the Captain of THE LUSITANIA as solely responsible for the tragedy. This did not work very well, and the matter was obscured from the press and other interested parties.

Some of this reviewer's college students surprised him when these students showed journalistic accounts of THE LUSITANIA tragedy. Some of the reporters actually reported on the actual status of THE LUSITANIA as an armed battle auxillary cruiser and the British deceit. Yet, textbook writers and publishers avoid the actual truth of the sinking of THE LUSITANIA like the plague. It is about time for these cowards to write honest history about the event almost a hundred years later.

There is little criticism of this book. There are an overwhelming amount of documents and sources which makes the book useful and thorough. Anyone who wants a dispassionate view of history would do well to read and absorb this book.

lucius
12-29-2008, 10:51 AM
^^

Anti Federalist
12-29-2008, 11:29 AM
Nice find lucius...wish more people would read this thread.

Yeah, dry, dusty history from almost 100 years ago.

With major relevance in the here and now.

yokna7
12-29-2008, 12:58 PM
I smell a lawsuit.

lucius
12-29-2008, 02:33 PM
Nice find lucius...wish more people would read this thread.

Yeah, dry, dusty history from almost 100 years ago.

With major relevance in the here and now.

I agree, very pertinent thread to read--these media lies are a 100 years old.

What's different now?

Sadly nothing...

lucius
12-30-2008, 11:25 PM
bump

Bruno
12-30-2008, 11:42 PM
The first I had ever heard of this was in The Creature from Jekyll Island. This find sure changes the conventional history!

lucius
12-31-2008, 08:11 AM
Perfect example of 'policy agenda' of engineering/maneuvering/sacrificing American citizens to gain entry into an unpopular war--here is proof of a 'False Flag/Inside Job' operation from 90 years ago. bump

lucius
01-01-2009, 06:00 PM
a goron2008 bump...what's different now?

Sadly nothing...

Anti Federalist
01-04-2009, 04:11 PM
Bump, because this is important.

Aratus
01-05-2009, 11:28 AM
in terms of the maine and havana harbor, there were several inquiries.
coal dust and an internal explosion due to the bins and the boilers was
looked into. an external waterspout was evidently observed. one curious
theory has an old civil war era mine drifting into the harbor and detonating,
which in turn shakes the ship, hense the coal dust and an internal explosion...
there may not have been deliberate acts of saboutage, not even from the
spanish crown. mckinley waits several weeks as the country is in a jingoistic
war fever. the war was heartily fanned by the popular tabloid press of the day...

Aratus
01-05-2009, 11:30 AM
munitions being ON the lusitania yet not immediately on a public manifest has been a longstanding question...

Mini-Me
01-05-2009, 11:40 AM
To this day, I am proud of my 7th grade history teacher for making sure we knew that the Lusitania was carrying arms. I never even knew until recently that some people STILL actually believed otherwise...and it's nice to see that more proof has finally been dug up.

Anti Federalist
01-23-2009, 07:17 PM
sub sea bump

FunkBuddha
01-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Ha! Think they'll rewrite the text books? I doubt it.

Anti Federalist
02-26-2009, 09:41 PM
Current event bump

Bruno
02-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Current event bump

Oops. I should have searched first. Just started a thread on this because it was just on Discovery.

Anti Federalist
02-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Oops. I should have searched first. Just started a thread on this because it was just on Discovery.

No no, that's fine, the more the better.;)

That's why I gave it the bump.

This is critical information, gives an excellent insight into just how crooked government has been.

lucius
02-27-2009, 08:17 PM
Hey YOU! A wake up bump...of course you are being lied too now--pick one book up maybe this one:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3f/f6/0ce3024128a086cb047bc010.L._AA240_.jpg

they are all lying...for a very long time...

Anti Federalist
02-27-2009, 09:44 PM
Yes YOU!! We are talking to YOU!! bump

Anti Federalist
03-25-2009, 09:38 PM
Bumpage

Truth Warrior
03-26-2009, 06:12 AM
The Lusitania was an inside job! DUH!!!

Jace
03-26-2009, 01:16 PM
...